♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ HELLO AND WELCOME TO INSIDE LOUISVILLE -- WHERE WE INTRODUCE YOU TO THE PEOPLE, PLACES AND THINGS THAT MAKE UP KENTUCKY'S LARGEST CITY.

I'M YOUR HOST, KELSEY STARKS.

AND THIS WEEK WE INTRODUCE TO YOU TOM AND ANDREW OWEN.

SO YOU MAY KNOW TOM OWEN AS LOUISVILLE'S LOCAL HISTORIAN.

MAYBE YOU'VE SEEN HIM RIDING HIS BIKE OR HOPPING ON THE BUS AROUND TOWN, MAYBE GIVING HIS FAMOUS WALKING TOURS OR MAYBE YOU REMEMBER TOM AS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL REPRESENTING THE HIGHLANDS ON BOTH THE LOUISVILLE BOARD OF ALDERMEN AND LATER METRO COUNCIL OR PERHAPS YOU REMEMBER HIS RUN FOR MAYOR.

WE'LL TOM OWEN HOLDS A WEALTH OF KNOWLEDGE ABOUT LOUISVILLE HISTORY.

HE CAN TELL YOU COUNTLESS STORIES ABOUT EVERY SINGLE NEIGHBORHOOD IN THIS TOWN.

HE IS A STORYTELLER AT HEART AND TODAY WE GET TO TELL HIS STORY.

BUT FIRST A TASTE OF HIS STORY TELLING FROM A PROGRAM THAT AIRED PREVIOUSLY ON KET CALLED "LIFE IN THE OLD NEIGHBORHOOD."

>> NOW YOU WILL KNOW YOU HAVE ARRIVED IN THE OLD NEIGHBORHOOD WHEN YOU LOOK FOR THREE CHARACTERISTICS.

THE FIRST CHARACTERISTIC IS SO OBVIOUS TO YOU.

IN FRONT OF THE HOUSES IN THE OLD NEIGHBORHOOD THERE IS A SIDEWALK THAT GOES SOMEWHERE.

IF YOU WALK WITH ME ON THAT SIDEWALK, YOU COME IN A SHORT DISTANCE TO A BUS OR STREET CAR STOP.

YOU GO BY THE SCHOOL, THE CHURCH OR THE TEMPLE.

YOU STOP BY THE MOM AND POP GROCERY STORE, THE CANDY STORE, THE BEAUTY OR THE BARBER SHOP, WHILE EVEN HAL HAS A BICYCLE OR LAWN MOWER REPAIR SHOP IN A SHED OUT BACK AS YOU CONTINUE WALKING ON THAT SIDEWALK.

AND YOU FINALLY COME NOT SO FAR FROM HOME TO A CORNER DINER OR A CORNER TAVERN.

AND THEN IF YOU STAY ON YOUR FEET AND KEEP WALKING JUST A LITTLE BIT FURTHER, YOU COME TO A LARGER SHOPPING DISTRICT WHERE WILL YOU FIND A CHAIN SUPERMARKET, A DRUG AND DEPARTMENT STORE, A VARIETY STORE, APPLIANCE STORE, BRANCH POST OFFICE, A BANK AND, ABOVE ALL, A NEIGHBORHOOD MOVIE THEATER.

NOW THE HOUSES THAT WE MENTIONED, THOSE HOUSES HAVE A SECOND CHARACTERISTIC OF THE OLD NEIGHBORHOOD.

THERE IS A PLACE TO SIT OUT FRONT, A FRONT PORCH, A FRONT STOOP, AND, I PROMISE YOU, A WHOLE LOT OF LIVING GOES ON ON THAT FRONT PORCH.

SITTING JUST PASSING THE TIME AWAY OR INVOLVED IN A GAME, OR TRYING TO RECOVER FROM A HARD DAY.

AND A THIRD CHARACTERISTIC, SO THAT YOU WILL KNOW YOU ARE IN THE OLD NEIGHBORHOOD, IN ALL LIKELIHOOD, THERE IS AN ALLEY OUT BACK AND IN THAT ALLEY YOU WILL SEE A SHORTCUT TO SOME OTHER PLACE.

SOMETIMES A PLAYGROUND, AN AVENUE TO GET TO OFF STREET PARKING AND A GARBAGE ROUTE ALL THERE ON THE SERVICE ALLEY.

>> WELL, TOM OWEN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR HISTORY IN LOUISVILLE FIRST.

GREW UP IN THE PARKLAND NEIGHBORHOOD.

LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT.

WHAT WAS THAT LIKE WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP AND HOW HAS IT CHANGED?

>> WELL, THE STARTLING THING IS, I BELIEVE, THAT PERHAPS-- AND I DON'T HAVE THIS SOLID STATISTIC-- THAT THE WEST END, WEST OF, SAY, DIXIE HIGHWAY, 18th STREET, THE WEST END WOULD HAVE BEEN 58 TO 60% WHITE RATHER THAN CURRENTLY, CERTAINLY 85 PERHAPS 85% AFRICAN-AMERICAN.

SO THE WHITE FLIGHT WAS THE DRAMATIC STORY AFTER MY FAMILY MOVED.

IT WAS THE FIRST 13 YEARS.

AND WE ARE TALKING BASICALLY ABOUT THE 1940S INTO THE EARLY 1950s.

I WAS RAISED IN WHAT I CALLED-- I MADE IT UP-- SOUTH PARKLAND.

PARKLAND IS A VICTORIAN NEIGHBORHOOD, A NEIGHBORHOOD FROM THE 1880S, 90S TO 1910 OR SO.

BUT I LIVED IN A NEWER SUBDIVISION SOUTH OF WILSON AVENUE NEAR ALGONQUIN PARK AND THOSE WERE MY GENERATION, NEW HOUSES.

MY DAD ACTUALLY HAD OUR HOUSE BUILT THE YEAR I WAS BORN-- 1939.

SO I LIVED IN WHAT I CALLED, I MADE IT UP, SOUTH PARKLAND.

>> THE NEW SECTION.

>> THE NEW SECTION.

>> SO WHAT-- WERE YOU ALWAYS INTERESTED IN HISTORY, FROM A YOUNG AGE OR WHAT SPARKED THAT?

>> AS I REFLECT ON IT, I THINK THERE ARE MULTIPLE SOURCES.

MY FATHER AND MY GRANDFATHER WERE IN THE MAIL.

THEY WORKED FOR THE U.S. POST OFFICE.

SO WE WERE ALWAYS SENSITIVE TO STREETS AND NEIGHBORHOODS AND CHANGES AND BUILDINGS AND CENTER CITY AND ALL OF THOSE KINDS OF DYNAMICS.

PLUS, WE WERE DEEPLY ROOTED IN THE PARKLAND NEIGHBORHOOD.

MY GRANDFATHER AND GRANDMOTHER HAD ACTUALLY, SOON AFTER THEY WERE MARRIED IN THE EARLY 1900s, MOVED TO MULTIPLE RESIDENCES IN THE GREATER PARKLAND AREA.

SO WE WERE DEEPLY ROOTED IN THE COMMUNITY.

SO STORIES ABOUT NEIGHBORHOODS, STORIES ABOUT COMMUNITIES, STORIES ABOUT THE CITY, STORIES ABOUT PEOPLE.

AND THEN MY MOTHER, AN EAST TENNESSEE SMALL TOWN RURAL WOMAN, SHE WAS SENSITIVE TO STORY TELLING AS WELL.

SHE DIDN'T PROFESSIONALLY OR IN PUBLIC TELL STORIES.

BUT SHE JUST WAS A NARRATOR, A NARRATOR, A NARRATION THAT WAS FREQUENTLY FRAUGHT WITH BIGGER THAN LIFE, SOMETIMES PARA NORMAL KINDS OF THINGS, BUT NEVERTHELESS, THERE WAS THAT NARRATIVE PIECE THAT I THINK I GOT FROM HER AS WELL.

SO BOTH ROOTED IN COMMUNITY AND MY MOTHER'S STORY TELLING QUALITIES, I THINK, KIND OF INTERSECTED IN A WAY THAT THREW ME IN THIS STORY TELLING.

>> YOU ARE SUCH A GIFT TO THIS COMMUNITY, ALL OF THE STORIES THAT YOU KNOW AND TELL ON YOUR WALKING TOURS, AND WHY DO YOU-- WHY IS IT IMPORTANT TO YOU TO CONTINUE TO TELL THOSE STORIES TO PEOPLE AROUND LOUISVILLE?

>> WELL, AN ANSWER EVOLVES OVER THE DECADES BUT MY CURRENT ANSWER IS THAT WE, AS A COMMUNITY, BELONG TO ONE ANOTHER AND TO THE EXTENT THAT WE CAN KNOW THE STORY OF YOUR PLACE, MY PLACE, HER PLACE, HIS PLACE, OUR PLACE, TO THE EXTENT THAT WE CAN PUT OUR ARMS AROUND THE GREATER COMMUNITY AND USE STORY TELLING ABOUT PLACE AS A MODUS FOR BRINGING US TOGETHER, I THINK OUR COMMUNITY-- NO DOUBT IN MY MIND-- OUR COMMUNITY, INSTEAD OF BIFURCATED INTO VARIOUS SEGMENTS AND REGIONS AND PARTS TO THE EXTENT THAT WE SHARE STORIES, THEN WE ARE A STRONGER AND MORE UNIFIED AND HAPPIER AND MORE DIRECTION-FOCUSED COMMUNITY.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR FORAY INTO POLITICS WHAT MADE YOU WANT TO DO THAT?

>> WELL, AGAIN, THREADS.

ONE THREAD WAS BIGGER THAN LIFE.

I MEMORIZED WHEN I WAS 13 YEARS OLD, THE PRESIDENTIAL OATH OF OFFICE.

I HAVE FED ON STORIES OF PROFILES IN COURAGE THAT JOHN KENNEDY HAD WRITTEN.

MOMENTS WHEN PEOPLE WHO WERE IN PUBLIC SERVICE STOOD FIRMLY AND ON PRINCIPLE.

SO THERE IS THAT KIND OF EMOTIONAL AND ASPIRATIONAL AND BIGGER THAN LIFE ASPECT OF WHY I'M INTERESTED IN POLITICS, BUT THEN THERE IS ALSO THIS ELEMENT AND THAT IS SIMPLY THAT SOMEBODY HAS GOT TO DO IT.

AND, FRANKLY, SOME PEOPLE CAN TAKE YOU OVER THE EDGE DOING IT.

LITERALLY.

BECAUSE THEY HAVE BAD MOTIVES, BECAUSE THEY ARE SICK PEOPLE, BECAUSE THEY ARE BITTER AND DIVISIONAL BY THEIR NATURES.

AND SO THEREFORE, BY THE TIME I GOT TO BE 50 AND MY KIDS WERE, FRANKLY, MOVING ON THROUGH, I DECIDED THAT IT WAS TIME FOR SOMEBODY WHO NEEDED TO DO IT AND I HAD SKILLS, I THOUGHT, AND PREPARATION, I THOUGHT, THAT MADE ME ABLE TO DO IT.

>> AND THEN YOU SERVED AS ALDERMAN AND THEN LATER ON METRO COUNCIL.

>> NINE YEARS AS ALDERMAN IN THE 90s.

THEN A VERY, VERY, VERY VIGOROUS CAMPAIGN FOR MAYOR IN THE OLD CITY THAT I LOST BY THESE MANY HAIRS IN MY CHINY CHIN CHIN AND THEN I WAS AWAY FROM GOVERNMENT FOR FOUR YEARS.

CONTINUING ALWAYS, TO WORK AT THE UNIVERSITY OF LOUISVILLE.

AND THEN I RAN FOR METRO COUNCIL, ESSENTIALLY REPRESENTING THE HIGHLANDS, THE 28,000 TO 29,000 PEOPLE IN THE HIGHLANDS IN 2003 AND SERVED THROUGH 2016.

>> WHEN YOU LOOK BACK AT YOUR TIME IN GOVERNMENT, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE BIGGEST ACCOMPLISHMENTS THAT YOU ARE PROUD OF?

>> FAIRNESS, STRONG RECYCLING, NEVER GOT IT COUNTY WIDE WITH GOVERNMENT INVOLVEMENT.

BUT FAIRNESS, RECYCLING SENSE OF PLACE, PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION, BY MODELING MY OWN BEHAVIOR, BICYCLE, BUS.

AND STORIES ABOUT PLACE.

THESE ARE SOME OF THE MAJOR THINGS.

AND THEN, OF COURSE, WE ENDED UP KEEPING THIRD STREET OPEN.

WE-- WHICH I THOUGHT WAS IMPORTANT.

DAVID JONES SR.

THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT.

SO THERE WERE ALWAYS ISSUES.

AND SOME WERE JUST INTRACTABLE.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU ARE IN PUBLIC SERVICE, THERE ARE SOME ISSUES FOR WHICH THERE ARE NO SIMPLE SOLUTIONS AND SOME DAYS YOU THINK THERE ARE NO SOLUTIONS.

SO-- AND THAT IS WEARING, BUT THAT'S WHAT YOU HAVE CHOSEN TO DO AND YOU WALLOW IN THOSE THINGS AND DO THE BEST YOU CAN.

>> WELL, AS WE LOOK FORWARD TO THE FUTURE, YOUR SON IS FOLLOWING IN YOUR FOOTSTEPS AND HAS BEEN RECENTLY ELECTED TO METRO COUNCIL.

SO WHEN WE COME BACK, WE'LL BRING ANDREW OWEN INTO THE CONVERSATION.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ANDREW OWEN, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

WELCOME.

YOU HAVE JUST BEEN ELECTED LAST YEAR TO METRO COUNCIL FOLLOWING IN YOUR FATHER'S FOOTSTEPS.

IS THAT SOMETHING YOU ALWAYS THOUGHT YOU WOULD DO?

>> I'VE THOUGHT ABOUT DOING IT FOR A LONG TIME, BUT IF YOU HAD ASKED ME AS A KID IF IT WAS SOMETHING I WOULD DO, I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE SAID NO.

BUT I HAVE, LIKE DAD, I HAVE BEEN FASCINATED BY CITIES AND NEIGHBORHOODS AND HOW THEY WORK OR NOT, HOW THEY DON'T WORK.

FOR A LONG TIME.

AND SO IT WAS INTERESTING WATCHING HIM DO WHAT HE DID FOR A LONG TIME.

AND I WAS KIND OF CERTAINLY WATCHED VERY CAREFULLY.

SO IT WAS ALWAYS AN INTEREST BUT IT WASN'T SOMETHING I WOULD HAVE ARTICULATED, YOU KNOW, YES, I WANT TO DO THAT, FROM A YOUNG AGE.

>> AND, TOM, HOW ABOUT YOU?

WERE YOU SURPRISED WHEN YOU HEARD HE WANTED TO RUN FOR OFFICE?

>> I CAN SAY THAT, THROUGH THE YEARS, AS HE JUST SAID, THROUGH THE YEARS, I WAS NOT AWARE THAT HE WAS COJ TATING ON THAT POSSIBILITY.

SO FRANKLY I WAS A LITTLE SURPRISED WHEN HE SAID THINKING ABOUT IT.

HE WASN'T THINKING ABOUT IT VERY LONG.

WE WERE TOTALLY BEHIND HIM.

I WAS NOT AWARE THAT HE WAS COJ COGITATING.

>> WHAT ADVICE DID YOU GIVE TO ANDREW AS HE STARTED HIS CAREER IN POLITICS?

>> DO I REMEMBER GIVING YOU ANY SPECIFIC ADVICE.

>> DAD IS NOT REALLY AN ADVICE GUY.

MOM AND DAD WERE BOTH VERY SUPPORTIVE AND THEY REALLY WORKED WITH ME DURING THE CAMPAIGN.

WALKED WITH ME.

EXTREMELY HELPFUL.

DAD AND ADVICE IS NOT REALLY HIS THING.

I'VE GONE TO HIM WITH QUESTIONS ABOUT SPECIFIC THINGS AND SAID IS THIS SOMETHING YOU DEALT WITH AND HOW DID YOU APPROACH IT?

OR THINGS LIKE THAT WHERE HE IS HAPPY TO, YOU KNOW, TO ASSIST.

BUT YOU ARE NOT-- OVERALL, ALL OF THE THINGS WE'VE DONE, I DON'T REALLY FEEL LIKE HE IS LIKE THIS IS THE WAY I WOULD DO IT OR THIS IS THE WAY I THINK YOU OUGHT TO DO IT.

THAT'S NOT REALLY HIS... >> I HAVE NEVER BEEN-- I THINK I WAS A DECENT AND ACTIVE ENOUGH FATHER, BUT I HAD MY OWN LIFE AND MY OWN MANY, MANY THINGS GOING ON.

AND I ENJOYED OUR FAMILY.

I ENJOYED OUR CHILDREN.

BUT I WASN'T-- IF I AM TRYING TO-- IF I TRIED TO CONVEY SOMETHING TO HIM, IT WOULD BE BY EXAMPLE RATHER THAN LET ME TAKE YOU ASIDE, SON AND TELL WHAT YOU YOU NEED TO DO OR THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU NEED TO DO.

>> SURE.

>> AND THAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING.

I MEAN WHEN HE-- WHEN YOU ASKED HIM QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT THINGS THAT YOU ARE MOST PROUD OF OR ACCOMPLISHMENTS, THE TWO THINGS THAT I WOULD HAVE SAID ON HIS BEHALF ARE HE WAS BETTER THAN JUST ABOUT ANYBODY AT CONSTITUENT SERVICES AND CONSTITUENT COMMUNICATION WITH HIS PEOPLE.

AND THEY LOVED HIM FOR IT.

AND SO THAT IS A BIG PART OF THE JOB.

AND THAT WAS SOMETHING HE FOCUSED ON AND WAS REALLY GOOD AT.

AND THEN THE OTHER, NUMBER 2, WAS PEOPLE TRUSTED THAT HE WAS DOING IT FOR THE RIGHT REASONS.

SO HIS INTEGRITY IN DOING IT WERE BOTH THINGS THAT HE MODELED BOTH FOR HIS SKIT CONSTITUENTS AND THE REST OF THE CITY AND FOR ME.

THOSE ARE DEFINITELY THINGS HE WAS VERY GOOD AT AND SHOULD BE PROUD OF.

>> ALONG THOSE LINES, YOU TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW GOVERNMENT HAS CHANGED SINCE YOU WERE INVOLVED AND TO TODAY.

I'M CURIOUS, BOTH OF YOUR THOUGHTS, ON POLITICS IN GENERAL AND WHERE WE ARE NOW.

>> YOU WANT TO GO FIRST?

>> I MEAN IT IS-- WELL, FIRST OF ALL, LET ME SAY LOCAL POLITICS IS A LITTLE BIT-- IS BETTER THAN NATIONAL POLITICS AND EVEN STATE POLITICS.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I HAVE BEEN PLEASED WITH AT METRO COUNCIL-- AND THIS ISN'T TO SAY THAT THERE AREN'T ISSUES RELATED TO PARTY.

BUT WE ARE ABLE TO WORK TOGETHER AND TALK AMONGST ALL OF OUR COLLEAGUES ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE IN A WAY THAT I THINK IS DIFFICULT AT THE STATE AND FEDERAL LEVELS.

SO I THINK I WOULD LIKE TO SEPARATE LOCAL POLITICS OUT FROM NATIONAL POLITICS.

BUT IT'S DIFFICULT.

AND PEOPLE ARE VERY DUG IN TO THEIR TRIBES.

AND IT'S ALWAYS A CONSIDERATION FOR ME TO TRY TO BRING ALONG NOT ONLY THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR ME, BUT OTHERS AS WELL.

AND I THINK THAT IT'S GOTTEN MORE ENTRENCH UNDERSTAND AND MORE DUG IN SINCE YOU STARTED.

THAT'S ONE THING.

>> AND AS A HISTORIAN, IT'S INTERESTING DYNAMICS... >> WELL, REMEMBER THE CITY OF LOUISVILLE WAS A CITY OF 300 AND SOMETHING THOUSAND AND HAVE LOST SOME POPULATION BUT THERE WAS A CITY OF LOUISVILLE AND THEN THERE WAS JEFFERSON COUNTY UNTIL 2003.

THAT MERGER INTRODUCES AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT DYNAMIC.

IF I CAN GIVE YOU AN ANALOGY AND TELL YOU QUICKLY ENOUGH, I COMPARE AT LEAST THE METRO COUNCIL TO 26 MEMBERS OF THE METRO COUNCIL TO A GROUP OF 26 HUMANS CHOSEN FROM 26 DIFFERENT AREAS OF A METROPOLITAN COMMUNITY AND WE ARE ALL WEARING BEANIES.

AND WE HAVE AN ANTENNA ON EACH BEANIE AND THE PEOPLE TELL US WHAT WE OUGHT TO DO.

WE OUGHT TO DO, WE OUGHT TO DO.

WE OUGHT TO DO.

AND WE ARE WALKING AROUND WITH THESE BEANIE AND ANTENNA, AND THEN WE ARE SENT INTO A ROOM, TABLING OUR BEANIES OFF, SETTING THEM DOWN, AND WE ARE IN CHARGE OF MAKING POLICY DECISIONS THAT AFFECT THE COMMUNITY AND ITS FUTURE.

AND THAT IS AN ALTERNATIVE TO FIGHTING IN THE STREETS AND WE ARE EXPECTED, BY THE CONSTITUENTS, ALL OF THEM, ALL 740,000 CITIZENS OF JEFFERSON COUNTY, I THINK THAT'S THE NUMBER, I'M NOT SURE.

BUT NEVERTHELESS, WE ARE EXPECTED TO COME OUT WITH A DECISION.

DON'T COME OUT SAYING YOU CAN'T COME TO A DECISION.

MAKE A DECISION.

HOPEFULLY THE BODY POLICE DETECTIVE WILL ACCEPT-- THE BODY POLITIC WILL ACCEPT IT.

THAT'S THE THE ANALOGY I MAKE.

I THINK IT'S VERY TRUE IN TODAY'S WORLD.

>> AND AS FAR AS THE FUTURE OF LOUISVILLE, WE HAVE GOT A LOT OF CHALLENGES RIGHT NOW.

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES YOU SEE FOR THE CITY RIGHT NOW THAT WE NEED TO OVERCOME?

>> I MEAN A COUPLE OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, PUBLIC SAFETY IS ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL AND PUBLIC SAFETY MEANS SOMETHING DIFFERENT, HONESTLY, TO PEOPLE IN ALL 26 OF THOSE DISTRICTS.

AND THE CHALLENGES THEY'RE FACING ON THAT FRONT ARE A LITTLE DIFFERENT BUT IT AFFECTS ALL OF US AND IT AFFECTS THE WAY WE APPROACH OUR DAILY LIVES.

SO THAT'S CRITICAL.

I THINK WE ARE MAKING PROGRESS ON THAT.

IT TAKES A LITTLE TIME.

ONE THING THAT WE ARE DOING NOW IS TRYING TO REBUILD THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN LPD AND THE COMMUNITY.

I THINK IT'S SO CRITICAL, THAT RELATIONSHIP IS FUNCTIONING THAT THERE IS FAITH AND TRUST ON BOTH SIDES.

SO THAT HEALING PROCESS IS HAPPENING.

SO THAT'S ONE.

AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND KIND OF THE HOMELESS HOUSELESS CRISIS RELATED TO THAT IS ANOTHER.

THOSE ARE TWO HUGE ONES METRO WIDE FOR ME THAT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO GET FIGURED OUT.

AND THAT'S IN ADDITION TO ALL OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT ARE ALWAYS ON OUR PLATE.

>> SURE.

>> THE ONLY THING I PEDDLED-- I PEDALED HERE THIS MORNING AND I SEE THE CENTER CITY AS TRANSFORMED BY COVID AND BY THE MOVEMENT OF WORKING FROM HOME AND THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO ARE ON THE STREET WHO ARE HOUSELESS, WHICH I THINK IS UNTENABLE.

THERE HAS TO BE SOME KIND OF SOLUTION THERE.

I'M LOOKING TO MY SON AND HIS COLLEAGUES TO ARE THAT, WHICH I THINK IT MIGHT BE CLOSE TO INTRACTABLE, BUT I THINK-- BUT THE DECLINE OF THE CENTER CITY, THE EMPTY BUILDINGS, THE FEWER PEOPLE IN THE STREET, I SEE THAT MUCH LESS ON MAIN STREET THAN I DO THE STREETS GOING SOUTH TOWARD BROADWAY.

AND SO THAT IS, I THINK, A SIGNIFICANT CONCERN.

AND I THINK IT'S GOING TO REQUIRE A RETHINKING OF WHAT THE CENTER CITY IS AND DOES AND HOW IT FUNCTIONS.

>> I'M CURIOUS, TOO, YOUR PERSPECTIVE, SINCE YOU KNOW SO MUCH HISTORY ABOUT OUR DOWNTOWN AND YOU'VE SEEN THE EBBS AND FLOWS AND WE'VE-- THIS ISN'T THE FIRST TIME WE'VE STRUGGLED WITH PEOPLE DOWNTOWN AND HOUSING DOWNTOWN, OFFICES DOWNTOWN.

IS THIS DIFFERENT NOW THAN IN ANY TIME IN THE PAST?

>> I THINK IT IS.

I'M NOT SURE.

THERE OF ROUGH SPOTS BEFORE.

CHALLENGES, SIGNIFICANT CHALLENGES BEFORE.

BUT THE EMPTYING OF THE OFFICE TOWERS, THE SIGNIFICANT EMPTYING OF THE OFFICE TOWERS, WHICH MEANS A TRANSFORMATION IS REQUIRED FROM DAILY WORKER DENSITY TO OTHER FUNCTIONS, INCLUDING POSSIBLY RECONFIGURING HOUSING IN SOME OF THE TALL TOWERS, AS WELL AS GREATER ENTERTAINMENT VENUES AND ALL OF THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.

BUT I JUST THINK THAT THIS CHALLENGE IS SIGNIFICANT.

OVER THE DECADES, OVER THE CENTURIES, THE CENTER CITY HAS CHANGED AND BEEN REFORMED, RECONSTRUCTED, RE-CHANGED OVER TIME, MULTIPLE TIMES.

FOR INSTANCE, 10 SECONDS.

IN 1910, THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN MANY.

MANY, MANY POOR PEOPLE LIVING NEAR CENTER CITY.

THEY WOULD HAVE LIVED ABOVE STORES.

THEY WOULD HAVE LIVED IN ALLEYS IN THE CENTER CITY.

AND THEY WOULD OF WHITE AND THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN BLACK.

SO THERE WAS A MUCH GREATER RESIDENTIAL DENSITY WITH RICH FOLKS LIVING IN HOUSES IN 1910 ALONG MUHAMMAD ALI AND CHESTNUT AND BROADWAY, BUT THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN RICH FOLKS AND POOR PEOPLE LIVING IN MUCH CLOSER PROXIMITY.

AND SO WE KNOW-- THE CITY WE KNOW NOW THAT IS CHALLENGED IS A CITY OF THE 1960S AND 1970s.

>> I KNOW A LOT OF THE ISSUES THAT WE TALK ABOUT HERE, PUBLIC SAFETY, AFFORDABLE HOUSING, ALL OF THOSE THINGS, WE ARE STILL TALKING ABOUT THE NINTH STREET DIVIDE AND ALL OF THESE THINGS SEEM, THE PUBLIC EDUCATION, EVERYTHING, AND IT SEEMS TO ME TO BE A CONVERSATION THAT WE HAVE HAD FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

THESE SAME ISSUES CONTINUE TO SPROUT UP.

WHY DO YOU FEEL LIKE WE HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO HIVE THERE HAS BEEN 134 PROGRESS MADE BUT WHY DO YOU THINK THESE ARE THE SAME ISSUES?

>> HISTORY REPEATSth.

AND IF YOU GO BACK FARTHER THAN THAT AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL, I MEAN EVERYONE WATCHED HAMILTON AND LOVED HAMILTON AND A LOT OF THE ISSUES IN THAT MUSICAL WERE THE SAME EXACT ISSUES THAT WE ARE OR DEALING WITH TODAY.

SO A LOT OF THIS STUFF IS FUNDAMENTAL.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I SAID I HAVE THIS LOVE FOR CITIES, IT'S AMAZING FRANKLY THAT OUR CITIES WORK AS WELL AS THEY DO.

THIS IS A SOCIOLOGICAL EXPERIMENT.

TAKE 700,000 HUMANS JUST TALKING ABOUT LOUISVILLE, SOME PLACES YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT MILLIONS OF PEOPLE AND YOU DUMP THEM DOWN INTO ONE GEOGRAPHIC AREA AND YOU EXPECT IT TO FUNCTION?

THE TRUTH IS, MOST OF THE TIME IT FUNCTIONS BETTER THAN WOULD YOU THINK IT WOULD, RIGHT?

I THINK SOME OF IT IS JUST FUNDAMENTAL AND WE DO HAVE A HARD TIME LEARNING FROM OUR HISTORY.

BUT IT'S ONE OF THE REASONS HISTORY IS SO IMPORTANT.

IT GIVES YOU PERSPECTIVE AND SAYS WE HAVE BEEN THROUGH SOME OF THIS STUFF BEFORE.

WE HAVE FACED THESE CHALLENGES BEFORE.

WE HAVE, TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, GOTTEN THROUGH SOME OF THESE SIMILAR ROUGH PATCHES BEFORE.

>> THERE ARE ISSUES AND ALL YOU ARE CHALLENGED TO DO IS TO DO THE BEST YOU CAN TO RESPOND TO THEM.

AND AND DO YOU PERMANENTLY SOLVE MANY OF THESE ISSUES?

NOT IN THE IMMEDIATE FUTURE AND FORESEEABLE IS CHALLENGED BUT I KNOW WHAT WE MUST DO.

WE MUST RESPOND TO THEM AND WE MUST RESPOND WITH AS MUCH HUMANITY AND PASSION AND ENERGY AND BUILDING COOPERATION AS POSSIBLE.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ONE OF TOM'S FAVORITE THINGS IS THAT HE LOVES MAKING PEOPLE SAY "I DIDN'T KNOW THAT" IF YOU GO FOLLOW US ON INSTAGRAM, YOU CAN SEE HIS TOP THREE I DIDN'T KNOW THAT STORIES ABOUT LOUISVILLE.

YOU CAN LIKE, FOLLOW AND SHARE AT ket.org IN LOU.

YOU CAN WATCH THIS PROGRAM AND ALL OF OUR STORIES ONLINE AT ket.org/INSIDELOUISVILLE.

THANKS FOR SPENDING A LITTLE TIME GETTING TO KNOW LOUISVILLE THIS WEEK.

I HOPE WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT TIME FOR INSIDE LOUISVILLE... UNTIL THEN, MAKE IT A GREAT WEEK!

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪