ANNOUNCER: TONIGHT ON SHOWCASE WITH BARBARA KELLAR, AN INSTALLMENT OF FAMOUS FAMILIES WITH FORMER OHIO GOVERNOR BOB TAFT DISCUSSING THE HISTORY OF THE TAFT FAMILY.

STAY TUNED, SHOWCASE STARTS RIGHT NOW.

[MUSIC] KELLAR: HI, I'M BARBARA KELLAR AND TODAY IS REALLY AN INTERESTING, WONDERFUL DAY BECAUSE I HAVE WITH ME AS A GUEST TODAY BOB TAFT.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DISTINGUISHED FAMILIES IN CINCINNATI AND OHIO.

AND YOU DON'T GET ANY MORE DISTINGUISHED THAN THE TAFTS.

AND BOB IS HERE.

WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT HIS LINEAGE AND STARTING WITH ALPHONSO TAFT.

BUT FIRST OF ALL, TELL OUR AUDIENCE YOUR TITLES.

YOU'RE CURRENTLY A PROFESSOR.

TAFT: CURRENTLY, I'M A PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF DAYTON.

KELLAR: BUT, GO BACK.

TAFT: WELL, OKAY.

SO I CAME BACK TO CINCINNATI QUITE A WHILE AGO, OF COURSE.

KELLAR: AND YOU WENT TO YALE?

TAFT: I WENT TO YALE.

KELLAR: AND THEN TO PRINCETON.

TAFT: AND LAW SCHOOL AT UNIVERSITY OF CINCINNATI.

AND AFTER I GOT OUT, MY SENIOR IN LAW SCHOOL, I GOT INTO THE STATE LEGISLATURE.

SO I WAS A MEMBER OF THE OHIO HOUSE, DID THAT FOR FIVE YEARS, THEN RAN FOR HAMILTON COUNTY COMMISSIONER, SERVED TWO AND A HALF TERMS AS COUNTY COMMISSIONER.

AND THEN IN 1990, I RAN FOR OHIO SECRETARY OF STATE, OUR CHIEF ELECTIONS OFFICIAL, WAS ELECTED TO TWO TERMS THERE.

IN 1998, I RAN FOR GOVERNOR, WAS AGAIN ELECTED FOR TWO TERMS, AND I LEFT THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE IN JANUARY OF 2007.

AND SINCE THEN, I'VE BEEN TEACHING AT THE UNIVERSITY OF DAYTON.

KELLAR: RIGHT.

WELL, THAT'S A DISTINGUISHED CAREER, BUT YOU CERTAINLY FOLLOW IN A LONG LINE OF DISTINGUISHED.

LET'S START WITH THE BEGINNING, WHICH IS ALFONSO TAFT.

TAFT: YEAH, ALFONSO.

AND BY THE WAY, MY MIDDLE NAME HAPPENS TO BE ALFONSO.

KELLAR: ROBERT A. TAFT, RIGHT?

TAFT: EXACTLY.

ALFONSO WAS THE FIRST MEMBER OF OUR FAMILY TO COME TO OHIO.

HE GREW UP ON A FARM IN VERMONT AND WORKED HARD TO EARN SOME MONEY SO HE COULD GO TO YALE, WENT TO YALE LAW SCHOOL, CAME WEST WITH THE COUNTRY AS CINCINNATI WAS BOOMING AND GROWING, ARRIVED HERE ABOUT 1840, WHEN ALREADY CINCINNATI WAS A FAIRLY PROSPEROUS TOWN.

BUT MORE AND MORE PEOPLE WERE COMING IN, YOU KNOW, VIRTUALLY EVERY DAY TO CINCINNATI.

SO HE SET UP HIS LAW PRACTICE, GOT INVOLVED IN LOCAL POLITICS, WAS ON THE CITY COUNCIL IN CINCINNATI.

HE WAS A MEMBER OF THE SCHOOL BOARD, CONSOLIDATING THE HIGH SCHOOLS.

WHEN HE WAS A MEMBER OF CITY COUNCIL, HE WAS AN ADVOCATE FOR ANNEXATION OF THE CITY.

IT ONLY WENT TO LIBERTY STREET AT THAT TIME.

KELLAR: OH, REALLY?

TAFT: SO HE -- A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE MOVING BEYOND THERE, SO HE SAID WE NEED TO ANNEX.

AND SO HE PUSHED FOR ANNEXATION.

THE WHIG PARTY, HE WAS A MEMBER OF THE WHIG PARTY, THEY OPPOSED ANNEXATION, BUT HE SAID, "I'M GOING TO DO IT ANYWAY."

SO THE WHIG PARTY WITHDREW THEIR ENDORSEMENT OF HIM, BUT HE RAN AS AN INDEPENDENT FOR CITY COUNCIL, WON, AND ANNEXATION OCCURRED FROM LIBERTY UP TO MCMILLAN STREET.

SO THAT WAS ONE OF THE FIRST GROWTHS OF CINCINNATI.

AND THEN HE WAS A -- HE WAS INVOLVED IN SO MANY DIFFERENT ISSUES AND HE WAS A JUDGE.

HE WAS IN PRESIDENT ULYSSES S. GRANT'S CABINET AS SECRETARY OF WAR AND ALSO ATTORNEY GENERAL.

HE HELPED TO FOUND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN OHIO.

AND HE WAS THERE IN 1860 WHEN ABRAHAM LINCOLN WAS NOMINATED BY THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

AND IN FACT, THEY'RE ABOUT THE SAME AGE, TOO.

VERY INTERESTING.

KELLAR: I LOVE THAT FACT, HE WAS THERE.

HE NOMINATED LINCOLN.

OH, MY GOODNESS.

OKAY, THAT WAS A GOOD BET.

RIGHT.

AND I THINK WE SAID WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED TO OUR WORLD IF HE HADN'T BEEN NOMINATED?

TAFT: I KNOW.

THANK GOODNESS.

WELL, ALFONSO TAFT WAS A STRONG ABOLITIONIST, VERY OPPOSED TO SLAVERY.

AND SO HE REALLY WAS AN ENTHUSIASTIC SUPPORTER OF BOTH LINCOLN, AND THEN AFTER LINCOLN, ULYSSES S. GRANT, WHOM HE SERVED IN THE CABINET.

AND THEN AFTER THAT, HE WAS APPOINTED AS THE AMBASSADOR, UNITED STATES AMBASSADOR TO AUSTRIA-HUNGARY AND THEN TO RUSSIA.

HE DID RUN FOR GOVERNOR, BY THE WAY, BUT NEVER GOT THE REPUBLICAN NOMINATION FOR GOVERNOR.

HE WAS INVOLVED IN A VERY CONTROVERSIAL CASE ABOUT WHETHER THE BIBLE COULD BE READ IN CINCINNATI PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

YOU KNOW, AT THAT TIME, BARBARA, SO MANY CATHOLICS WERE COMING IN FROM GERMANY AND IRELAND.

JEWISH FAMILIES WERE MOVING IN FROM EUROPE.

SO THERE WAS A LOT OF OPPOSITION TO READING THE PROTESTANT BIBLE IN THE SCHOOLS.

AND THE SCHOOL BOARD DECIDED TO STOP THAT.

PARENTS SUED TO MAKE THEM CONTINUE READING THE BIBLE.

THERE WAS A BIG CASE.

THREE JUDGES, TWO JUDGES SIDED WITH THE PARENTS, ALFONSO TAFT, DISSENT BASED ON FIRST AMENDMENT, THE OHIO FIRST AMENDMENT, FREEDOM OF CHURCH AND STATE, SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

HE SIDED WITH THE SCHOOL BOARD AND HIS DECISION WAS UPHELD BY THE OHIO SUPREME COURT.

BUT IT WASN'T A VERY POPULAR DECISION AMONG PROTESTANT VOTERS WHO REPRESENTED MOST OF THE REPUBLICANS IN OHIO AT THE TIME.

KELLAR: YEAH, I WAS INTERESTED IN A READING NOTES THAT 82% OF THE POPULATION WAS PROTESTANT, WHICH WOULD -- I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD BE -- I DIDN'T REALIZE THEY EVER HAD THAT HIGH A NUMBER.

TAFT: YEAH, BUT, THE CATHOLIC POPULATION WAS GROWING, ESPECIALLY IN CINCINNATI, YOU KNOW, AND THE BISHOP WAS VERY ACTIVE.

KELLAR: WHAT YEAR WOULD THAT HAVE BEEN, LIKE, 1860?

TAFT: YES.

YEAH, YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.

KELLAR: 1860S.

TAFT: OH, YEAH.

THE GROWTH WAS TREMENDOUS.

CINCINNATI WAS A BOOMTOWN, YOU KNOW, MANUFACTURING CENTER, EVERYBODY WAS MOVING HERE WITH THE RIVER TRADE.

KELLAR: YEAH.

JUST TELL THEM THE THE COMMENT THAT ALFONSO MADE WHEN THEY ASK HIM WHY DID HE COME TO CINCINNATI INSTEAD OF NEW YORK?

TAFT: YEAH.

HE LOOKED AT NEW YORK CITY AS A PLACE TO HANG OUT A SHINGLE, YOU KNOW, COMING FROM VERMONT.

BUT HE THOUGHT THAT THE LEGAL PRACTICE AND THE LAWYERS WERE JUST TOO CORRUPT, THEY WERE TOO GREEDY IN NEW YORK.

AND SO HE SAID, "NO, I'M GOING WEST."

KELLAR: OH, GREAT, GREAT.

SO KEEP ON GOING FROM -- THAT WAS ALFONSO.

TAFT: YEAH, WELL, ALFONSO, OF COURSE, HE FOUNDED THE FAMILY.

BY THE WAY, HE'S BURIED OUT IN THE SPRING GROVE CEMETERY.

BUT HE HAD SEVERAL CHILDREN BY HIS FIRST WIFE, WHO SADLY DIED YOUNG OF TUBERCULOSIS.

AND THEN HE WENT BACK TO NEW ENGLAND AND FOUND A SECOND WIFE.

SO THE SECOND WIFE, FIRST CHILD WAS WILLIAM HOWARD TAFT, WHO WAS MY GREAT GRANDFATHER.

BY THE WAY, ONE OF THE CHILDREN OF HIS FIRST MARRIAGE WAS CHARLES P. TAFT, WHO MARRIED ANNA SINTON.

AND THEY LIVED IN THE BUILDING THAT IS NOW THE TAFT MUSEUM.

KELLAR: RIGHT.

I THINK IT'S INTERESTING TO NOTE, BECAUSE IN READING ALL THE -- WHAT I'VE READ, THE TAFT WERE NOT SUPER WEALTHY, BUT DAVID SINTON HAD THE GOOD SENSE TO MARRY ANNA TAFT.

TAFT: WELL, WELL, CHARLES P. TAFT MARRIED DAVID SINTON'S DAUGHTER.

DAVID SINTON, HE WAS A BIG BUSINESS PERSON IN THE IRON TRADE.

KELLAR: RIGHT.

TAFT: AND MADE A LOT OF MONEY, ESPECIALLY DURING THE CIVIL WAR.

AND ONLY DAUGHTER WAS ANNA.

CHARLES P. TAFT, ALFONSO'S SON BY HIS FIRST WIFE, MARRIED ANNA SINTON.

AND THEY LIVED IN THE THEY LIVED IN THE BUILDING THAT WAS -- BECAME THE TAFT.

THEY TRAVELED, COLLECTED ART, AND LEFT ALL THAT ART TO THE CITY AS A MUSEUM.

KELLAR: YEAH, FABULOUS.

A REALLY INCREDIBLE.

TAFT: THAT WAS THE WEALTHY BRANCH OF THE FAMILY.

KELLAR: YES, RIGHT.

TAFT: MY BRANCH WAS MORE THE POLITICS, DIDN'T MAKE SO MUCH MONEY, BUT CHARLES P. TAFT SUPPORTED MY GREAT GRANDFATHER, WILLIAM HOWARD, WELL, WHEN HE RAN FOR PRESIDENT.

AND OF COURSE, WILLIAM HOWARD STARTED OUT HERE IN CINCINNATI AND WENT TO LAW SCHOOL IN CINCINNATI AND WAS A JUDGE HERE IN THE CITY.

HE WAS APPOINTED AT AN EARLY AGE AS THE SOLICITOR GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES, ARGUING CASES BEFORE THE US SUPREME COURT.

AND THEN AN OHIO PRESIDENT, WILLIAM MCKINLEY, APPOINTED HIM AS THE GOVERNOR GENERAL OF THE PHILIPPINE ISLANDS.

THIS WAS AFTER THE SPANISH-AMERICAN WAR.

AND SO HE, HIS FAMILY WENT OUT TO THE PHILIPPINES.

HE SERVED THERE AND THEN HE WAS VERY CLOSE TO TEDDY ROOSEVELT AT THE TIME.

TEDDY ASKED TAFT TO COME BACK AND SERVE AS HIS SECRETARY OF WAR IN THE ROOSEVELT CABINET, WHICH HE DID.

AND THEN TEDDY HAD PROMISED NOT TO RUN AGAIN.

SO TAFT, HE THOUGHT, WOULD CONTINUE HIS POLICIES.

HE PROMOTED TAFT, AND TAFT WAS ELECTED THE 27TH PRESIDENT IN 1908.

AND OF COURSE, HE SERVED FOR ONE TERM.

ROOSEVELT WAS UNHAPPY BEING OUT OF OFFICE, DIDN'T LIKE SOME OF THE POLICIES THAT TAFT DID.

HE CAME BACK AND RAN AGAINST TAFT FOR THE REPUBLICAN NOMINATION AND TAFT GOT THE REPUBLICAN NOMINATION.

ROOSEVELT STARTS THE BULL MOOSE PARTY, AND SO THE REPUBLICAN VOTE IS SPLIT AND WOODROW WILSON IS ELECTED PRESIDENT IN 1912.

BUT, YOU KNOW, WILLIAM HOWARD TAFT WASN'T REALLY A POLITICIAN.

HE WAS MORE A JUDICIAL PERSON.

HE ALWAYS WANTED TO BE ON THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT.

KELLAR: YEAH, HE WANTED TO BE THE HEAD OF THE SUPREME COURT.

TAFT: AND FINALLY AGAIN, ANOTHER OHIO PRESIDENT, HARDING, APPOINTED TAFT TO THE SUPREME COURT, I THINK IN ABOUT 1920, AND HE SERVED THERE ALMOST UNTIL THE TIME THAT HE PASSED AWAY IN 1930 AS THE CHIEF JUSTICE OF THE US SUPREME COURT.

AND REALLY HE'S THE PERSON RESPONSIBLE FOR THE FACT THAT WE HAVE A BEAUTIFUL, SEPARATE FREESTANDING SUPREME COURT BUILDING IN WASHINGTON, D.C., BECAUSE AT THE TIME THE COURT MET IN THE CAPITOL, THEY DIDN'T HAVE THEIR OWN BUILDING.

HE THOUGHT SEPARATE BRANCH, WE SHOULD HAVE OUR OWN BUILDING.

SO HE GOT THE BALL ROLLING, THE MONEY APPROVED BY CONGRESS AND THE PLANNING AND THE DESIGN.

HE DIDN'T LIVE TO SEE IT COMPLETED.

BUT REALLY, WHEN YOU GO TO WASHINGTON, LOOK AT THE SUPREME COURT, THAT'S KIND OF A LEGACY OF WILLIAM HOWARD TAFT.

HE LOVED BEING CHIEF JUSTICE.

HE'S PRETTY HIGHLY REGARDED AS CHIEF JUSTICE.

HE HAD A TOUGH TIME WITH THOSE POLITICAL ISSUES AS PRESIDENT.

IN FACT, I THINK WHEN HE WAS ON THE COURT, HE SAID, "I NEVER REMEMBER A TIME WHEN I WAS PRESIDENT."

[LAUGHTER] HE RAN INTO THE TARIFF ISSUE, A LOT OF CONTROVERSY, AND WASN'T EXACTLY POLITICALLY ADEPT AT MANAGING IT.

KELLAR: YEAH, HE ALWAYS -- THAT WAS THE THING THAT ALL I'VE READ THAT SAID HE REALLY DIDN'T WANT TO BE A POLITICIAN, HE WANTED TO BE A SUPREME COURT JUSTICE.

TAFT: AND INCIDENTALLY, HIS WIFE, NELLIE, WANTED VERY MUCH TO BE FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES.

AND SHE WAS A CINCINNATI GIRL.

SHE WAS VERY ACTIVE HERE IN SUPPORTING THE CREATION OF THE SYMPHONY -- KELLAR: YES.

TAFT: -- FOR CINCINNATI.

AND SHE'S ONE OF THE LEADERS IN THAT EFFORT.

AND SHE WAS -- WANTED TO BE A VERY ACTIVE FIRST LADY.

SHE WANTED TO BRING MUSIC INTO THE WHITE HOUSE.

A LOT OF FAMOUS PERFORMERS CAME.

AND THEN TO BEAUTIFY WASHINGTON, SHE HAD THE IDEA OF BRINGING THE CHERRY TREES FROM JAPAN.

KELLAR: THAT WAS HER?

TAFT: BECAUSE SHE'D SEEN THEM AND HOW BEAUTIFUL THEY WERE BLOOMING IN THE SPRING.

AND SO IT WAS HER IDEA TO BRING THE CHERRY TREES TO WASHINGTON, D.C. AND SO IF PEOPLE GO IN MARCH, AND SEE THOSE CHERRY TREES BLOOMING, THE CHERRY BLOSSOM FESTIVAL, THAT'S NELLIE TAFT.

SO SHE HAS QUITE A LEGACY IN HER OWN RIGHT.

KELLAR: YEAH.

AND CHARLIE TAFT, WHO WAS THE SON OF WILLIAM HOWARD, AND HE WAS -- WAS HE BORN IN THE WHITE HOUSE?

MY HUSBAND SAID HE THOUGHT -- BECAUSE HE KNEW CHARLIE.

TAFT: RIGHT.

YEAH.

WELL, THAT'S MY GREAT UNCLE CHARLIE.

AND GREAT UNCLE CHARLIE WAS A YOUNG BOY IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

IN FACT, HE RAISED A LOT OF HELL, AND-- KELLAR: OH, DID HE?

TAFT: OH, YEAH, HE WAS RUNNING ALL OVER THE PLACE IN THE WHITE HOUSE, HAVING A GOOD TIME.

KELLAR: YEAH.

JUST FOR OUR LISTENERS, CHARLIE TAFT WAS ON THE CITY COUNCIL.

TAFT: YES.

KELLAR: AND HE DROVE AROUND WITH A CANOE ON HIS CAR.

THAT'S HOW YOU'LL OUR VIEWERS WILL REMEMBER.

HE WAS A CHARACTER.

TAFT: YEAH.

AND GREAT UNCLE CHARLIE, HE WAS ON CITY COUNCIL.

HE WAS MAYOR OF CINCINNATI.

KELLAR: YES.

TAFT: HE WAS ONE OF THE EARLY MEMBERS OF THE CHARTER PARTY TO CLEAN UP CITY GOVERNMENT AND TO ESTABLISH THE CITY MANAGER.

KELLAR: I THINK THAT'S HOW LARRY KNEW HIM BECAUSE HE WAS ACTIVE YEARS AGO IN THE CHARTER.

TAFT: YEAH.

AND THEN HE WOULD SIT IN THE CITY COUNCIL AND HE'D HAVE A BUG IN HIS EAR, THE RADIO, LISTENING TO THE CINCINNATI REDS PLAY AND THROW OUT COMMENTS.

AND THE CANOE WAS OUT FRONT.

YOU KNOW, THAT WAS HIS WHOLE CAMPAIGN WAS HE HAD A CANOE ON TOP OF HIS CAR, WHICH WAS ALWAYS PARKED OUT IN FRONT OF CITY HALL.

AND BY THE WAY, HE'S BURIED IN SPRING GROVE.

AND HIS TOMBSTONE SAYS, "GONE FISHING."

KELLAR: OH, GREAT, GREAT, GREAT.

TAFT: HE WAS A CHARACTER, BUT HE RAN FOR GOVERNOR.

HE WAS A VERY ACTIVE LEADER IN THE EPISCOPAL CHURCH.

KELLAR: YEAH.

TAFT: HE WAS MY GRANDFATHER'S YOUNGER BROTHER, CHARLIE.

KELLAR: YEAH.

NOT TO DIGRESS HERE, BUT MANY FAMOUS CINCINNATI MEN HAVE FOLLOWED THE REDS IN SPITE OF ANYTHING ELSE THEY WERE DOING BECAUSE GUS NIPPERT, LOUIS NIPPERT WHEN HE WAS ALIVE, AND THAT WAS IN THE OLD MUSIC HALL WHERE THERE WAS THE CROSS ROW IN THE MIDDLE OF THE AUDITORIUM.

AND ONE NIGHT I WAS -- IT WAS AN OPERA OR SYMPHONY, I DON'T KNOW, IT'S OPERA IN THE SUMMER.

AND THERE WAS AN USHER WHO KEPT COMING TO THE DOOR AND HE'D RAISE UP FINGERS.

I FINALLY AT INTERMISSION, I SAID, "WHAT IS HE DOING?"

HE SAID, THIS WAS BEFORE CELL PHONES.

HE SAID, "OH, HE'S GIVING HIM THE SCORE OF THE REDS GAME SO HE COULD KEEP SCORE."

SO THERE ARE LOTS OF -- THERE'S GREAT PRECEDENT FOR THAT.

TAFT: OH, ABSOLUTELY.

WHEN I TRAVELED OHIO, OF COURSE, WLW700 I CAN GET THAT ALL OVER THE STATE.

KELLAR: OH, YEAH.

THAT'S RIGHT.

YEAH.

TAFT: SO I WOULD ALWAYS BE LISTENING TO THE REDS GAME AT NIGHT DRIVING BACK FROM POLITICAL EVENTS.

KELLAR: YEAH.

SO AFTER CHARLIE, WHO WAS?

TAFT: WELL, THEN MY GRANDFATHER, ROBERT A. TAFT, WAS WILLIAM HOWARD'S OLDEST SON.

AND HE CAME BACK TO CINCINNATI AND PRACTICED LAW, WAS ELECTED TO THE STATE LEGISLATURE, WAS IN THE OHIO STATE SENATE.

AND THEN IN 1938 HE RAN FOR THE US SENATE AND WAS ELECTED.

SO HE SERVED SEVERAL TERMS IN THE US SENATE BEFORE HE DIED IN 1953, HE RAN FOR THE REPUBLICAN NOMINATION FOR PRESIDENT THREE TIMES AND HE NEVER MADE IT.

THE LAST TIME WAS 1952, WHEN IT WAS TAFT AGAINST EISENHOWER AND AT THE CHICAGO CONVENTION, AND IT WAS A WILD CONVENTION.

THE EISENHOWER FORCES PREVAILED THEN TAFT WAS ACTUALLY THE MAJORITY LEADER IN THE US SENATE.

BUT THE IRONY HERE IS THAT MY GRANDFATHER, ROBERT A. TAFT, ALWAYS WANTED TO BE PRESIDENT, BUT NEVER WAS.

MY GREAT GRANDFATHER, WILLIAM HOWARD TAFT, HE WANTED TO BE ON THE COURT, NOT REALLY WANT TO BE PRESIDENT, BUT HE WAS PRESIDENT.

SO, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE IRONIES.

KELLAR: THE IRONIES OF IT.

WAS THAT -- WAS YOUR GRANDFATHER THE ONE WHO WAS CALLED MR. REPUBLICAN OR WAS THAT YOUR DAD?

TAFT: MY GRANDFATHER WAS MR. REPUBLICAN AND HE WAS A HIGHLY REGARDED POLITICAL LEADER.

I'VE GOT AT HOME A LOT OF COVERS OF THE OLD TIME MAGAZINE, LIFE MAGAZINE.

HE WAS SO WELL KNOWN.

HE WAS RUNNING FOR THE PRESIDENT SEVERAL TIMES.

HE WAS THE LEADER IN THE SENATE, THE TAFT-HARTLEY ACT.

SO THERE WAS A REAL LEGACY THERE.

AND IN FACT, HE WAS SO WELL KNOWN, HE DIED AT THE PEAK OF HIS FAME, SADLY, FROM CANCER IN 1953.

BUT HE WAS SO WELL KNOWN THAT THE SENATE AND THE CONGRESS ALLOWED A MEMORIAL TO BE BUILT FOR HIM ON THE CAPITOL GROUNDS.

SO IF YOU GO TO WASHINGTON TODAY, THERE'S A ROBERT A. TAFT CARILLON, BELL TOWER, RIGHT ON THE CAPITOL GROUNDS.

SO HE WAS VERY, VERY PROMINENT, VERY WELL KNOWN.

I WAS ONLY, LET'S SEE, I WAS 11 YEARS OLD WHEN HE PASSED AWAY.

SO I KNEW HIM AS A GRANDPARENT, BUT NOT REALLY AS A POLITICAL FIGURE.

WE WENT UP TO WASHINGTON AND VISITED AND WATCHED THE SENATE IN ACTION AND WENT TO THE SENATE DINING ROOM AND GOT SOME AUTOGRAPHS.

BUT I WISH I'D KNOWN HIM BETTER BECAUSE HE WAS REALLY A WELL KNOWN AND HIGHLY REGARDED NATIONAL LEADER.

KELLAR: YEAH, YOU MENTIONED THE TAFT-HARTLEY LAW AND ANOTHER GREAT CINCINNATIAN, AND HE WAS ALSO A FRIEND OF OURS WAS MACK SWIGERT.

AND HE WROTE -- HE WAS THE LAWYER, THE MAIN LAWYER, I GUESS, WHO WROTE THE TAFT-HARTLEY.

TAFT: THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.

AND MY GRANDFATHER AND CHARLIE TAFT, THEY STARTED THE TAFT LAW FIRM.

KELLAR: RIGHT, TAFT STETTINIUS & HOLLISTER.

RIGHT.

TAFT: AND THAT'S WHERE MACK SWIGERT WORKED.

BUT YOU'RE RIGHT, MACK SWIGERT, WHO WAS A VERY PROMINENT CINCINNATIAN, AND HE WROTE MUCH OF THE TAFT-HARTLEY ACT.

AND THEN, OF COURSE, HE HAD A TREMENDOUS LABOR LAW PRACTICE FOR MANY, MANY YEARS.

KELLAR: YEAH.

YEAH, WELL, I HAVE STORIES ABOUT HIM TOO, BUT WE'RE HERE TO TALK ABOUT THE TAFT'S.

SO THEN YOU'RE -- WE'RE DOWN TO YOUR DAD.

TAFT: YEAH.

AND MY, MY GRANDFATHER HAD FOUR SONS, HE AND MARTHA TAFT, BY THE WAY, HIS WIFE MARTHA, SHE WAS VERY ACTIVE IN THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS.

SHE LOVED POLITICS.

SHE CAMPAIGNED ALL OVER THE STATE OF OHIO.

SHE WAS A GREAT ASSET TO ROBERT A. TAFT.

RIGHT.

BUT THEY HAD FOUR BOYS.

THE OLDEST, MY UNCLE BILL, HE BECAME AMBASSADOR TO IRELAND UNDER EISENHOWER AND ALSO WAS IN THE FOREIGN SERVICE FOR A WHILE.

THE SECOND SON WAS MY DAD AND ANOTHER BOB, ROBERT TAFT JR.

HE JUST LIKE MY GRANDFATHER, CAME HOME TO CINCINNATI, PRACTICED LAW FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS.

AND THEN HE STARTED OUT, AFTER MY GRANDFATHER DIED, HE STARTED OUT IN THE STATE LEGISLATURE AS A MEMBER OF THE OHIO HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, DID THAT FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS.

AND THEN IN 1962, KIND OF INTERESTING, THEY COULDN'T DECIDE WHERE TO PUT THE NEW CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT THAT OHIO RECEIVED BECAUSE OF THE CENSUS IN 1960.

SO THERE WAS ONE MEMBER OF THE US HOUSE WHO RAN AT LARGE THROUGHOUT OHIO.

DAD RAN FOR THAT SEAT AND HE WON.

SO HE WAS A CONGRESSMAN AT LARGE FROM OHIO FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS.

RAN FOR THE SENATE IN '64, LOST, CAME BACK IN A BIG BATTLE AGAINST JOHN GILLIGAN, WHO BECAME GOVERNOR LATER.

KELLAR: OH, WE KNEW HIM.

YEAH.

TAFT: THE 1966 -- KELLAR: YEAH.

I REMEMBER THAT.

TAFT: -- BATTLE BETWEEN TAFT AND GILLIGAN.

KELLAR: THAT WAS -- I REMEMBER THAT VERY WELL.

TAFT: PROBABLY THE HIGH WATER MARK OF POLITICAL ACTIVITY IN OHIO.

KELLAR: YEAH, EXACTLY.

TAFT: EVERYBODY WAS INVOLVED, ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER.

AND DAD BARELY BEAT JACK GILLIGAN IN 1966.

WAS REELECTED IN 1968.

AND THEN IN 1970, HE HAD ANOTHER GREAT BATTLE AGAINST FORMER GOVERNOR JIM RHODES.

THEY WERE BOTH RUNNING FOR THE REPUBLICAN NOMINATION FOR THE US SENATE.

SO TWO TITANS CLASHED AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY SPLIT AND TAFT AND RHODES BATTLED.

KELLAR: YEAH.

TAFT: AND ABOUT THREE DAYS BEFORE THE PRIMARY IS WHEN THE TRAGIC KENT STATE SHOOTINGS HAPPENED IN 1970.

AND I DON'T KNOW IF THAT AFFECTED IT AT ALL, BECAUSE RHODES HAD SENT THE NATIONAL GUARD IN THERE.

BUT MY DAD BEAT GOVERNOR RHODES BY A VERY SMALL MARGIN, WENT ON TO DEFEAT HOWARD METZENBAUM IN NOVEMBER OF '70, SERVED IN THE SENATE FOR ONE TERM, AND THEN HOWARD METZENBAUM CAME BACK AND DEFEATED HIM IN 1976.

SO YEAH, SO BOTH MY GRANDFATHER AND MY DAD WERE MEMBERS OF THE US SENATE.

KELLAR: WOW.

OKAY.

TAFT: YEAH.

BUT I NEVER WANTED TO GO TO WASHINGTON, BARBARA.

I LIKED OHIO AND SO I STAYED IN OHIO AND I WORKED EARLY IN STATE GOVERNMENT IN ILLINOIS AND REALLY FOR A GREAT GOVERNOR, ONE OF THE ONES THAT DIDN'T GO TO JAIL IN ILLINOIS.

GOOD GUY, REALLY GOOD GUY.

AND I GOT INSPIRED BY WHAT A GOVERNOR COULD DO.

WHEN I CAME BACK TO OHIO, I MOVED TOWARDS THE STATE LEGISLATURE AND THEN COUNTY COMMISSIONER, SECRETARY OF STATE AND THEN GOVERNOR.

KELLAR: YEAH.

YOU LIKED WHAT GOVERNORS COULD DO.

TAFT: WELL, I THINK GOVERNOR IS THE BEST JOB IN GOVERNMENT AND POLITICS.

YOU CAN REALLY GET THINGS DONE AND ACCOMPLISH THINGS FOR THE PEOPLE.

IT'S NOT QUITE AS PARTISAN.

YOU'RE REPRESENTING ALL THE PEOPLE OF A STATE NO MATTER WHERE THEY LIVE, NO MATTER HOW THEY VOTED.

AND WORKING WITH THE LEGISLATURE, THE GOVERNOR CAN REALLY SET THE AGENDA AND WORK ON EDUCATION OR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT OR HEALTH CARE, ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES, WHATEVER, WHATEVER THE STATE NEEDS, LIKE, YOU KNOW, WHO KNEW THAT THE PANDEMIC WAS GOING TO HAPPEN?

SO THE GOVERNOR'S ON DUTY.

GOVERNOR DEWINE HAD TO HANDLE THAT.

THANK GOD I DIDN'T.

BUT SO BUT, YOU KNOW, TORNADO, FLOODS, WHATEVER, HAPPENED.

WE HAD A BIG BLACKOUT WHEN I WAS GOVERNOR.

SO, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO.

BUT I REALLY ENJOYED THE JOB.

AND I THINK THAT IT'S A LOT MORE FULFILLING IN TERMS OF BEING ABLE TO GET THINGS DONE THAN, SAY, BEING IN THE CONGRESS.

OF COURSE, NOW NOWADAYS THE CONGRESS IS VERY, AS YOU KNOW, VERY, VERY POLARIZED AND VERY DIVISIVE.

BUT I ENJOYED TRAVELING OHIO AND GETTING TO KNOW OHIOANS AND TRIED TO DO THE BEST JOB I CAN.

KELLAR: YEAH.

TAFT: OHIO WAS A PRETTY DIVIDED STATE THEN.

I DIDN'T WIN BY A WHOLE LOT.

THE FIRST TIME I RAN AGAINST THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL LEE FISHER.

THAT WAS A REALLY A TOUGH RACE.

BUT IT'S INTERESTING, WHEN YOU GET ELECTED GOVERNOR, AFTER YOU GET ELECTED GOVERNOR AND YOU'RE TALKING TO PEOPLE, YOU NEVER MEET ANYONE WHO VOTED AGAINST YOU, ISN'T THAT AMAZING?

I GOT LIKE I GOT 52% OF THE VOTE, BUT I NEVER MET ANYBODY THAT DIDN'T, SO I GOT ALL OF THEM.

KELLAR: YEAH, RIGHT.

THAT'S I THINK THAT'S TRUE IN MOST ELECTIONS.

YES, EXACTLY.

TAFT: YEAH.

A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL SAY, "I VOTED FOR YOU."

AND THEY PROBABLY DID, BUT YOU NEVER KNOW.

KELLAR: MAYBE.

TAFT: FORTUNATELY, THE BALLOTS ARE PRIVATE, SECRET.

KELLAR: EITHER THAT OR YOU HAVE A VERY LIMITED ACQUAINTANCE.

TAFT: YEAH, EXACTLY.

KELLAR: WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP, DID YOUR FAMILY TALK ABOUT POLITICS?

TAFT: MY MOTHER WASN'T THAT INTERESTED IN POLITICS, BUT AS I GOT OLDER, YOU KNOW, HIGH SCHOOL AND COLLEGE, YEAH, WE TALKED ABOUT POLITICAL ISSUES AND I WAS PROBABLY A LITTLE MORE LIBERAL THAN MY PARENTS.

AND RIGHT AFTER COLLEGE, I DECIDED TO JOIN THE PEACE CORPS AND WAS A SCHOOL TEACHER IN TANZANIA, EAST AFRICA.

WELL, THE PEACE CORPS WAS JOHN F. KENNEDY, RIGHT, THAT WAS THE DEMOCRAT IDEA.

SO I DON'T THINK MY PARENTS WERE TOO THRILLED THAT I WAS JOINING THE PEACE CORPS, BUT THEY GOT USED TO IT AND THEY ACTUALLY CAME OUT TO VISIT ME.

AND I WAS IN TANZANIA, EAST AFRICA.

KELLAR: WHAT WAS THAT LIKE?

TAFT: OH, IT WAS SO MUCH FUN.

IT WAS A GREAT THING TO DO.

THIS WAS -- THE COUNTRY WAS JUST INDEPENDENT AND THERE WAS A LOT OF OPPORTUNITY AND HOPE AND PROMISE.

AND THEY NEEDED MORE TEACHERS WHO COULD TEACH ENGLISH BECAUSE THEY TAUGHT IN ENGLISH AT THAT TIME.

IT HAD BEEN AN ENGLISH COLONY, TANZANIA.

AND SO I HAD A GREAT TIME.

I LIVED NOT TOO FAR FROM LAKE VICTORIA, NOT TOO FAR FROM MOUNT KILIMANJARO, NEAR SERENGETI PARK.

KELLAR: YEAH.

TAFT: SO ON THE VACATIONS, THERE WERE GREAT PLACES TO TRAVEL.

I WENT TO UGANDA AND KENYA AND REALLY ENJOYED PEACE CORPS TRAINING, ENJOYED THE OPPORTUNITY TO TEACH.

AND I FELT I WAS MAKING A DIFFERENCE.

SEVENTH, EIGHTH GRADE BOARDING SCHOOL, TAUGHT ENGLISH, MATH, GEOGRAPHY.

I WAS PROBABLY THE WORST ART TEACHER WHO EVER TAUGHT ART, BUT SOMEONE HAD TO.

THERE WERE ONLY SIX TEACHERS AT THE SCHOOL.

SOMEONE HAD TO TEACH ART.

BUT IT WAS -- I'M SO GLAD THAT I DID THAT.

KELLAR: YEAH.

HOW OLD?

HOW OLD WERE YOU THEN?

TAFT: JUST OUT OF COLLEGE.

I WAS 21, 22.

KELLAR: OH, SO AT THAT AGE.

TAFT: OH, IT WAS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY.

I HAD A LOT OF RESPONSIBILITY.

I GOT SIX TEACHERS RUNNING A SCHOOL.

KELLAR: WOW.

OKAY.

TAFT: AND THE OPPORTUNITY TO TRAVEL AND LEARN ANOTHER CULTURE AND UNDERSTAND THE WORLD BETTER.

SO I'M JUST REALLY GRATEFUL THAT I HAD THAT OPPORTUNITY.

KELLAR: WHAT MADE YOU COME BACK?

TAFT: WELL, I WENT TO GRADUATE SCHOOL IN INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT AND THEN I WAS GOING TO DO A CAREER IN INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT.

BUT THEN THE ONLY PLACE YOU COULD GO WITH THE FOREIGN AID PROGRAM THEN WAS VIETNAM, BECAUSE THE VIETNAM WAR WAS COMING.

SO I ACTUALLY SPENT A COUPLE OF YEARS RIGHT AFTER I GOT MARRIED IN VIETNAM, WORKING FOR AID, THE AGENCY FOR NATIONAL DEVELOPMENT ON FOREIGN AID PROGRAMS.

AND THEN I'D BEEN OUT OF THE COUNTRY FOR 4 OUT OF 6 YEARS.

AND THOSE YEARS WE HAD, RIGHT AFTER WE GOT TO AFRICA, JOHN F. KENNEDY WAS ASSASSINATED.

SO THAT WAS LIKE A TRAGEDY FOR US, BUT A TRAGEDY.

AFRICANS ACTUALLY WERE REALLY, BECAUSE OF THE HOPE AND PROMISE OF JOHN F. KENNEDY, THEY WERE SO UPSET ABOUT IT AS WELL.

BUT THEN OTHER ASSASSINATIONS, WE HAD RIOTS.

WE HAD ALL THE PROBLEMS ON THE COLLEGE CAMPUSES.

SO I REALLY FELT BEING OUT OF THE COUNTRY 4 OUT OF 6 YEARS THAT I WAS OUT OF TOUCH WITH MY OWN COUNTRY.

SO THAT'S WHEN I DECIDED MAYBE I DON'T WANT TO LIVE ABROAD ALL THE TIME.

I NEED TO GET BACK TO THE UNITED STATES AND SEE WHAT'S GOING ON.

SO AT THAT POINT, I CAME BACK AND THAT'S WHEN I FOUND THE JOB WORKING FOR THIS GOVERNOR IN ILLINOIS.

AND THAT REALLY WAS A FORMATIVE EXPERIENCE THAT MOVED ME TOWARDS STATE GOVERNMENT.

AND SO WHEN HE LOST, I CAME BACK TO OHIO.

ONE THING I SHOULD MENTION IN 1970, THAT CAMPAIGN AGAINST JIM RHODES IN THE PRIMARY, MY WIFE AND I, WE TOOK A LEAVE OF ABSENCE AND HOPE WAS HIS DAD'S SCHEDULER.

AND I WAS A NUMBER TWO CANDIDATE FOR DAD.

I TRAVELED ALL OVER OHIO SPEAKING AT EVENTS, YOU KNOW, WHERE HE COULDN'T BE.

AND SO THAT GAVE ME THE POLITICAL BUG AND THAT GAVE ME THE KNOWLEDGE OF OHIO.

AND SO I FELT COMFORTABLE ABOUT COMING BACK TO OHIO AND THINKING ABOUT GETTING INVOLVED IN POLITICS.

AND I LOVED STATE GOVERNMENT FROM MY EXPERIENCE IN ILLINOIS, SO I REALLY TARGETED THEM TOWARDS BEING IN THE STATE LEGISLATURE AND THEN MOVING UP THE LINE AND WORKING TOWARDS MAYBE BECOMING GOVERNOR ONE DAY, WHICH FORTUNATELY I WAS.

AND I MENTIONED THAT GOING ALL THE WAY BACK TO ALFONSO, THAT HE RAN FOR THE NOMINATION FOR GOVERNOR BUT NEVER MADE IT.

KELLAR: SO, HEY.

TAFT: SO FINALLY A MEMBER OF THE FAMILY WAS ELECTED GOVERNOR OF OHIO.

KELLAR: YEAH, THERE'S SO MUCH WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT.

AND ALSO ALFONSO'S ROLE IN THE UNIVERSITY OF CINCINNATI.

TAFT: YES.

KELLAR: NOT A SMALL THING, BUT THIS HAS JUST BEEN WONDERFUL.

I WISH WE CAN HAVE A REMATCH.

TAFT: SO MUCH FUN CHATTING WITH YOU ABOUT THE HISTORY.

YOU KNOW, AT FIRST I WAS A YOUNG KID TRYING TO GET AWAY FROM CINCINNATI.

BUT NOW THAT I'M BACK HERE IN OHIO, I REALLY LOVE LEARNING ABOUT AND APPRECIATING MY FAMILY'S HISTORY.

KELLAR: YEAH, AND THE REST OF US DO, TOO, BECAUSE WE'VE ALL BENEFITED FROM IT SO.

TAFT: WELL, IT'S THE STORY OF CINCINNATI IN MANY WAYS.

KELLAR: YEAH, IT IS.

IT'S ABSOLUTELY.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

TAFT: THANKS, BARBARA.

KELLAR: WE LOVED HAVING YOU AND GOOD LUCK IN WHATEVER YOU CHOOSE TO DO IN THE FUTURE, YOU DESERVE IT.

TAFT: THANK YOU SO MUCH, BARBARA.

MY PLEASURE.

ANNOUNCER: JOIN US NEXT WEEK FOR ANOTHER EPISODE OF SHOWCASE WITH BARBARA KELLAR RIGHT HERE ON CET.