>> "ALMANAC" IS A PRODUCTION OF TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.

>> ERIC: IN THE NEXT HOUR WE'LL LEARN ABOUT AMERICA'S NEXT HEALTH EMERGENCY -- MONKEYPOX.

THE TRIAL IN AITKIN COUNTY ABOUT EMERGENCY CONTRACEPTION WE'LL HEAR ABOUT.

AND THEN WE'LL BREAK DOWN THE DATA ON SCHOOL SHOOTINGS WITH RESEARCHERS WHO MAINTAIN THE WORLD'S MOST COMPREHENSIVE MASS SHOOTER DATABASE.

AND THEN MARY LAHAMMER HAS A LOOK AT THE TESTY START TO THE CANDIDATE DEBATE SEASON.

>> Mary: THE FIRST GOVERNOR'S DEBATE HERE AT FARM FEST FEATURED FIERY EXCHANGES BETWEEN WALZ AND JENSEN, AS THEY HEAD INTO THE HEAT OF THE CAMPAIGN SEASON.

>> DON'T YOU DARE CALL US LAZY!

[ Cheers ] >> LET GOVERNMENT GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY.

[ Cheers ] >> THAT'S COME UP ON "ALMANAC."

♪♪ >> "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

SUPPORT IS ALSO PROVIDED BY: GREAT RIVER ENERGY: PROVIDING WHOLESALE POWER TO 28 MINNESOTA ELECTRIC COOPERATIVES.

DELTA DENTAL OF MINNESOTA FOUNDATION: IMPROVING ORAL HEALTH WHILE ADVANCING SOCIAL EQUITIES.

DELTADENTALMN.ORG/TPT.

THE SHAKOPEE MDEWAKANTON SIOUX COMMUNITY: A TRIBAL NATION FOCUSED ON COMMUNITY AND COLLABORATION, ESPECIALLY IN TIMES LIKE TODAY.

AND EDUCATION MINNESOTA: THE VOICE FOR PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS AND STUDENTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

MORE AT EDUCATIONMINNESOTA.ORG.

"ONE GREATER MINNESOTA" REPORTING ON "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY: THE OTTO BREMER TRUST, WHOSE MISSION IS INVESTING IN PEOPLE, PLACES, AND OPPORTUNITIES IN OUR REGION.

ADDITIONAL SUPPORT IS PROVIDED BY: THE BLANDIN FOUNDATION, WORKING TO STRENGTHEN RURAL MINNESOTA.

>> ERIC: WE'LL GET TO THE FARMFEST STORY IN JUST A FEW MINUTES, AND THEN REPUBLICAN ATTORNEY GENERAL CANDIDATE DOUG WARDLOW WILL JOIN US.

BUT FIRST, A VERDICT IN A LANDMARK CIVIL SUIT.

>> CATHY: THE ISSUE CONCERNED A PHARMACIST IN NORTHERN MINNESOTA, WHO, IN 2019, REFUSED ON RELIGIOUS GROUNDS TO FILL A PRESCRIPTION FOR EMERGENCY CONTRACEPTION.

THE WOMAN WHO NEEDED THE PRESCRIPTION HAD TO DRIVE TO ANOTHER TOWN TO GET IT FILLED.

SHE ARGUED THAT HER CIVIL RIGHTS WERE VIOLATED UNDER STATE LAW.

THIS AFTERNOON A VERDICT WAS REACHED.

THE JURY RULED IN FAVOR OF THE PHARMACIST ON THE CHARGE OF SEXUAL DISCRIMINATION, BUT THE JURY ALSO AWARDED THE PLAINTIFF $25,000 FOR EMOTIONAL HARM.

JOHN REINAN COVERED THIS COURT CASE FOR THE "STAR TRIBUNE."

GOOD TO SEE YOU AND WELCOME TO "ALMANAC."

>> THANK YOU.

>> Cathy: SO THE VERDICT CAME IN, KIND OF A SPLIT VERDICT.

>> KIND OF A SPLIT VERDICT, ALTHOUGH I THINK THE LARGEST ISSUE WAS THE SEX DISCRIMINATION AND THE JURY DID RULE IN FAVOR OF THE PHARMACIST ON THAT.

I WAS A LITTLE SURPRISED TO SEE THEM THEN GIVE AN AWARD TO THE WOMAN.

THE LAWYERS WERE ALL CONFUSED BY T. THEY HAD TO GO BACK INTO THE COURTROOM AND TALK TO THE JUDGE ABOUT IT.

AND, ACTUALLY, THAT MAY BE OVERTURNED.

INTERESTINGLY, THE PLAINTIFF'S ATTORNEYS, IT'S A GROUP CALLED GENDER JUSTICE HERE IN St. PAUL, AND THEY ARE GOING TO ILE TO HAVE THE JUDGE OVERTURN THE JURY'S VERDICT.

I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW YOU CAN DO THAT, BUT APPARENTLY IN A CIVIL TRIAL YOU CAN.

IF THEY THINK THE JURY WAS WRONG, THEY CAN ASK THE JUDGE TO OVERRULE THE VERDICT EXAMINE THEY'RE GOING TO DO.

THAT.

>> Eric: THIS IS NOT AN ABORTION STORY, IS IT?

>> IT IS NOT.

THE BIRTH CONTROL CAN THAT THE WOMAN TOOK IS HAT'S COMMONLY CALLED THE MORNING AFTER PILL.

IT'S NOT PLAN B, PEOPLE THINK THAT'S SYNONYMOUS WITH THE MORNING AFTER PILLS, IT'S THE BIGGEST BRAND.

THIS WOMAN USED A BRAND CALL ELLA, E-L-L-A, SHE HAD INTERCOURSE WITH HER PARTNER OF MORE THAN TEN YEARS, THEIR CONDOM FAILED, SHE WENT IN AND GOT A PRESCRIPTION, WENT TO GET -- THIS IS A PILL THAT WORKS BY IMPEDING OVULATION FOR UP TO FIVE DAYS, AND THE PHARMACIST SAID THAT HE THOUGHT IT WAS AN ABORT FACIALENT, SOMETHING TO CAUSE A FERTILIZED EGG TO BE REJECTED AND HE REFUSED TO FILL IT.

>> Eric: DID FREEDOM OF RELIGION COME INTO PLAY HERE?

>> THE FREEDOM OF RELIGION IS IN THE FEDERAL UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION.

THE JUDGE ISSUED AN ORDER THAT THIS WAS NOT TO BECOME A CASE ABOUT FREEDOM OF RELIGION, BUT, REALLY, IN THE TESTIMONY, IT REALLY DID.

THE PHARMACIST TESTIFIED AT GREAT LENGTH ABOUT HIS RELIGIOUS BELIEFS AND HIS BELIEF THAT A FERTILIZED EGG IS A NEW LIFE AND HE COULD OT INTERFERE WITH THAT.

>> Cathy: WHAT DOES THE FATE BOARD OF PHARMACY SAY?

WHAT'S THE ACTUAL LAW AROUND THIS >> WELL, IT'S A LITTLE CONFUSING BECAUSE THEY HAVE ISSUED GUIDELINES, THEY DO HAVE SOME LEGAL TEETH THERE INCORPORATED INTO THE MINNESOTA ADMINISTRATIVE RULES.

IT'S SORT OF A GRAY AREA BETWEEN WHAT'S A LAW AND WHAT'S A GUIDELINE, BUT, ANYWAY, THE BOARD OF PHARMACY SAYS THAT IF A PHARMACIST IS GOING TO REFUSE ON CONSCIENTIOUS GROUNDS TO FILL A PRESCRIPTION, THAT PHARMACIST SHOULD DO EVERYTHING THEY CAN DO TO HELP THE PERSON GET THE PRESCRIPTION.

AND, SO, THIS PHARMACIST DID OFFER TO SEND IT TO A PHARMACY IN BRAINERD, BUT THE WOMAN WAS MAD AT IM AT THAT POINT AND SHE BASICALLY SAID, I'M NOT GOING TO DEAL WITH YOU ANYMORE.

SO SHE DID GET HER PRESCRIPTION IN BRAINERD.

SHE HAD TO DRIVE MORE THAN 100 MILES IN WINTRY CONDITIONS TO PICK IT UP.

>> Cathy: AND SHE SUED UNDER THE MINNESOTA HUMAN RIGHTS ACT, IS THAT RIGHT?

>> THAT'S CORRECT.

MINNESOTA'S HUMAN RIGHTS ACT PROHIBITS A VARIETY OF DISCRIMINATORY PRACTICES, INCLUDING SEX DISCRIMINATION, AND SEX DISCRIMINATION IS DEFINED TO INCLUDE ISSUES RELATED TO PREGNANCY AND CHILDBIRTH.

SO THIS WOMAN IS BASICALLY SAYING, I'M A WOMAN, MEN DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH, YOU KNOW, WITH MORNING AFTER PILLS SO, THEREFORE, BY DENYING IT, YOU DENIED IT TO ME SIMPLY BECAUSE I'M A WOMAN BECAUSE THERE WOULDN'T BE A MAN WHO WOULD BE DENIED IN THIS CASE.

>> Eric: IS THIS ANALOGOUS TO THE BAKER WHO WON'T BAKE THE SAME-SEX WEDDING CAKE?

>> YOU KNOW, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

I'M NOT OSITIVE WHETHER THAT WAS A FEDERAL CASE.

I THINK IT WAS A STATE CASE, I BELIEVE, OUT OF COLORADO, IF I'M REMEMBERING CORRECTLY.

IT COULD VERY WELL BE ANALOGOUS TO THAT, THAT'S PROBABLY NOT A BAD PLACE TO START THINKING ABOUT IT.

>> Cathy: SO IF GENDER JUSTICE, THE St. PAUL GROUP, APPEALS, I WONDER HOW FAR THIS GOES, SUPREME COURT?

>> YEAH, WELL, THEY HAVE ALREADY TOLD ME, FIRST, THEY'RE GOING TO TRY TO GET THE DISTRICT COURT JUDGE TO OVERRULE THE JURY'S VERDICT.

IF THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN, THEN, YES, THEY HAVE SAID THEY WILL TAKE IT TO THE MINNESOTA COURT OF APPEALS.

I IMAGINE THAT EITHER, YOU KNOW, THIS SEEMS LIKE THE KIND OF CASE THAT'S DESTINED FOR THE STATE SUPREME COURT.

EITHER SIDE, IF IT LOSES ON APPEAL IS PROBABLY GOING TO TAKE IT TO THE NEXT STEP.

>> Eric: DOES THE PHARMACY BOARD HAVE TO CLARIFY THINGS?

OR IS IT CLEAR ENOUGH?

MAYBE IT IS.

>> I THINK THE PHARMACY BOARD IS KIND OF OUT OF IT AT THIS POINT.

IT'S IN THE COURTS.

AND I DON'T THINK THE PHARMACY BOARD IS GOING TO JUMP INTO THIS.

AND I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THEY HAVE THE AUTHORITY AT THIS POINT.

>> Cathy: I ONDER IF THEY GO BACK, BECAUSE OF THE CASE, AND LOOK AT THEIR GUIDELINES?

>> THAT WOULD BE, THEY MIGHT TRY TO MAKE IT A LITTLE MORE CLEAR BECAUSE THERE WAS ACTUALLY CONFUSION WITH THE PHARMACY.

THERE WAS CONFUSION WITH HE LAWYERS IN THIS CASE.

NOBODY SEEMED REALLY CERTAIN HOW THE PHARMACY BOARD GUIDELINES CAME INTO PLAY.

AND, YEAH, I THINK THE PHARMACY BOARD COULD PROBABLY TIGHTEN UP AND CLARIFY THINGS.

>> Cathy: BUT THE PHARMACIST IN QUESTION, WHO IS FROM MCGREGOR, HE TESTIFIED, DID HE NOT, THAT HE'S DONE THIS A COUPLE OTHER TIMES?

>> HE'S DONE IT A TOTAL OF FOUR TIMES.

HE DID IT THREE TIMES BEFORE THIS.

AND IN ALL CASES, IT WAS HE BELIEVED THAT, YOU KNOW, HE WAS CONTRIBUTING TO AN ABORTION.

AND THE LADY WHO SUED, THE PLAINTIFF, SHE HAD AN EXPERT, A MEDICAL EXPERT, COME IN AND TESTIFY THAT CONSENSUS IN THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY IS THAT LIFE DOES NOT BEGIN -- PREGNANCY DOES NOT BEGIN AT FERTILIZATION, IT BEGINS WHEN AN EGG IS IMPLANTED IN THE WALL OF THE UTERUS.

>> Eric: STAR TRIBUNE.COM, PEOPLE CAN READ THE STORY RIGHT NOW.

>> HOULD BE UP THERE NOW.

>> Eric: THANKS, JOHN.

>> Cathy: GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> ERIC: THE FIRST DEBATE IN THE RACE FOR GOVERNOR PROVED A FEISTY AFFAIR AT FARMFEST IN MORGAN, MINNESOTA.

THAT'S IN THE SOUTHWESTERN PART OF THE STATE.

GOVERNOR TIM WALZ AND HIS MAIN CHALLENGER, DR. SCOTT JENSEN, SHARPLY DISAGREED ON MANY POLICES.

REPORTER MARY LAHAMMER TALKED ONE ON ONE TO THE CANDIDATES BEFORE AND AFTER THE DEBATE.

>> Mary: IT'S A RIGHT OF PASSAGE IN MINNESOTA POLITICS, PROVING YOU CAN CONNECT WITH FARMERS IN RURAL MINNESOTA AT FARM FEST.

WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU NEED TO ACCOMPLISH TODAY?

>> I THINK TALK ABOUT OUR ACCOMPLISHMENTS HERE.

THIS IS TWO DECADES WORTH OF RELATIONSHIPS AND ACCOMPLISHMENTS WITH THIS GROUP IN HERE.

I KNOW THIS ISSUE FROM SERVING IN CONGRESS, GROWING UP ON FARMS, AND I JUST LOOK FORWARD TO TELLING THAT STORY.

>> Mary: INCUMBENT GOVERNOR TIM WALZ REPRESENTED SOUTHERN MINNESOTA IN CONGRESS.

YOU HAVE TO REMIND THEM ABOUT YOUR FARM CRED, YOU'VE GROWN HAY, YOU KNOW HOW TO DO THAT?

>> THE FOLKS IN THIS ROOM UNDERSTAND, WE'VE WRITTEN FARM BILLS TOGETHER, WE WROTE THE LATEs AG PACKAGE TOTAL.

IT'S GOOD.

>> Mary: HOW DO YOU THINK IT WENT?

>> I THINK IT WENT, IT'S A CONVERSATION, THAT'S WHAT MINNESOTANS WANT.

>> Mary: DID YOU WANT TO COME OUT SWINGING, FIERY, IT WAS ANIMATED.

>> WAS IT ANIMATED?

WHEN YOU'RE A PARTICIPANT, SOMETIMES YOU DON'T ALWAYS SEE IT.

>> Mary: SUBURBAN DOCTOR SCOTT JENSEN GOT ADVICE NOT TO WEAR ANYTHING LIKE LOAFERS.

ADVISORS SAY HE DRESSED AS HIMSELF.

>> MINNESOTANS FEEL LIKE, GEE, GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN SMOTHERING US, TAMPED US DOWN, PRESSED US DOWN, WHETHER IT'S THIS, THAT OR THE OTHER THING.

I THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD CONVERSATION.

I THINK MINNESOTA WANTS TO HAVE MORE OF THESE.

>> Mary: FARM FEST IS ALWAYS ABOUT PROVING YOUR RURAL CREDIBILITY, IT'S A RIGHT OF PASSAGE, HOW DO YOU THINK YOU DID?

WALZ SAID YOU'RE AN ALL METRO TICKET.

>> I GREW UP IN SLEEPY EYE, I WORKED AT DEL MONTY FOR MANY YEARS, I'M GOING TO GUESS, IT WAS THE AGRIBUSINESS THAT PUT ME THROUGH COLLEGE.

>> Mary: THE LARGEST CROWD IN MEMORY HERE AT FARM FEST TURNED OUT FOR THE FIRST DEBATE IN WHAT LOOKS TO BE A HEATED RACE FOR GOVERNOR.

>> RURAL COMMUNITIES NEED TO THRIVE SO THAT URBAN COMMUNITIES THRIVE AND VICE VERSA.

AND I THINK WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN THIS, WE NOT ONLY HAVE THE LOWEST UNEMPLOYMENT RATE OF ANY STATE IN HISTORY, WE HAVE THE SECOND HIGHEST JOB PARTICIPATION RATES.

WE HAVE THE HIGHEST CREDIT RATING FOR STATE AGENCIES AND THE FIFTH LARGEST JOB GROWTH.

>> IF WE HAVE A 1.8% UNEMPLOYMENT RATE BUT WE HAVE NO GDP GROWTH AND IF WE'RE IN THE BOTTOM HALF OF THE COUNTRY WHEN IT COMES TO GROWTH OF OUR ECONOMY, THEN THE 1.8 DOESN'T REALLY MATTER.

AND IF WE DON'T HAVE MINNESOTA WORKERS BACK TO WHERE WE HAD IN 200019, THEN IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER?

2019.

THAT'S A FALSE METRIC AND YOU FOLKS SEE THROUGH HAT, THANK YOU.

>> Mary: JENSEN CALLED WALZ AN EMPEROR FOR THE HEAVY-HANDED PANDEMIC APPROACH.

WALZ REMINDED THE RURAL CROWD THAT JENSEN'S TICKET IS ALL METRO.

>> I AM THE FIRST GOVERNOR IN MINNESOTA HISTORY TO NEVER ISSUE A VETO, THAT'S BECAUSE COMPROMISE IS A VIRTUE AND NOT A VICE.

>> RATHER THAN BLAME SOMEONE ELSE OR BOASTING, I'VE NEVER DONE ANY VETOS, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO A VETO IF YOU HAVE OTHER PEOPLE DOING YOUR DIRTY WORK.

THIS WHOLE CONCEPT OF LOCKING DOWN MINNESOTA, JUST BECAUSE YOU THINK YOU CAN, IS ABSOLUTELY AN ABOMINATION OF GOVERNMENT OVERREACH.

>> Mary: JENSEN GOT FIERY FAST, STANDING AND DELIVERING THE ANGST EVIDENT IN THE ELECTORATE.

WHILE WALZ REMINDED FOLKS, THIS IS HIS 17th TIME HERE WITH FARMERS.

>> THIS IS A FALSE ARGUMENT THAT IT'S FAMILY FARMS VERSUS LARGER OPERATIONS.

WE IN MINNESOTA ARE PROVING THAT THERE'S ROOM FOR EVERYONE.

WE'RE LEADING IN THIS.

WE'RE PROSPERING, WE'RE CREATING VIBRANT RURAL COMMUNITIES AND WE'RE PRODUCING ENOUGH FOOD TO FEED THE WORLD.

THAT'S THE POSITIVE SIDE OF IT.

[ Cheers ] >> I REJECT GOVERNOR WALZ'S COMMENT THAT THIS IS A ALSE ARGUMENT BETWEEN FAMILY FARMERS -- FAMILY FARMS.

THIS IS NOT A FALSE ARGUMENT.

[ Cheers ] OVER MY DEAD BODY WILL MINNESOTA EVER SELL FARMLAND TO FOREIGN CORPORATIONS.

COUNT ON IT.

>> Mary: COVID CAME UP, ESPECIALLY WITH Dr. JENSEN BEING A VACCINE SKEPTIC AND WALZ MANDATING SHUTDOWNS.

>> GREATER MINNESOTA DOESN'T FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE A SEAT AT THE TABLE.

THEY NEED TO HAVE A SEAT AT THE TABLE.

GREATER MINNESOTA HAS THE MOST TOTAL TYPIC SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS OF ANYWHERE IN MINNESOTA.

WHEN YOU INCENTIVIZE PEOPLE NOT TO WORK, WHEN YOU SCARE PEOPLE FROM WORKING, WHEN YOU DO ALL THESE THINGS, AND YOU GET THEM TO SIT ON THE COUCH AND WATCH TV -- >> WHAT YOU'LL NEVER HEAR FROM YOUR GOVERNOR IS THAT MINNESOTANS ARE LAZY.

HEARING IN A QUESTION THAT MINNESOTANS ARE LAZY SITTING ON THEIR COUCHES WHILE WE WATCH 13,000 OF OUR NEIGHBORS DIE, WHILE WE WATCHED HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS BE PUT IN HOSPITALS.

INSTEAD OF SPREADING FALSE INFORMATION, BE PART OF THE SOLUTION.

WHEN YOU'RE THE EXECUTIVE OF THIS STATE, YOU STAND UP AND SAY, I TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS.

>> Mary: AND WHEN JENSEN TRIED TO BLAME WALZ FOR AN INCREASE IN CRIME, THE GOVERNOR SAYS HIS OPPONENT ASKED LAWMAKERS TO BLOW UP A DEAL ON MORE LAW ENFORCEMENT AND TAX CUTS.

>> HAD SOMEONE NOT SAID KILL THE BILL, THERE WOULD BE $300 MILLION AND THREE DOZEN MORE STATE TROOPERS ON THE STREETS TODAY!

[ Cheers ] THIS JOB ENTAILS MORE THAN ADMIRING PROBLEM.

SECOND GUESSING.

>> THERE IS A POISON OF LAWLESSNESS THAT IS BLEEDING OUT ALL ACROSS MINNESOTA.

LET FARMERS FARM, LET MINERS MINE, LET TEACHERS TEACH AND LET GOVERNMENT GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY.

OF.

[ Cheers ] ♪♪ >> CATHY: ON THURSDAY THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION DECLARED A PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY FOR MONKEYPOX.

THE U.S. IS NOW HOME TO THE WORLD'S LARGEST OUTBREAK OF THE VIRUS.

SOME PUBLIC HEALTH OFFICIALS SEE PARALLELS BETWEEN COVID AND MONKEYPOX WHEN IT COMES TO MISSED OPPORTUNITIES FOR EARLY INTERVENTION.

HERE TO TALK ABOUT BOTH COVID-19 AND MONKEYPOX, MICHAEL OSTERHOLM.

THE HEAD OF THE U OF M CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE AND RESEARCH POLICY HAS MADE PANDEMIC MONTHLY VISITS TO "ALMANAC" FOR MORE THAN TWO YEARS NOW.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

>> GOOD TO SEE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>> Cathy: SAY, TELL ME, WHAT IS THE EPIDEMIOLOGICAL CONCERN OVER MONKEYPOX?

>> WELL, THE EMERGENCY DECLARATION THAT WAS JUST ISSUED WAS, IN FACT, SOMETHING THAT MOST PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE, DIDN'T REALLY HAVE MUCH IMPACT FOR MOST OF THE POPULATION.

IT WAS REALLY ABOUT HOW WE CAN STREAMLINE THE APPROVAL OF VACCINES AND DRUGS THAT RIGHT NOW ARE NOT APPROVED.

IT WASN'T THAT THE WHOLE COUNTRY IS IN AN EMERGENCY STATUS.

WHERE WE'RE SEEING THESE CASES AND THEY'RE RAPIDLY RISING THROUGHOUT NOT JUST THE UNITED STATES BUT THROUGHOUT THE WORLD IS IN MEN WHO HAVE SEX WITH MEN AND SPECIFICALLY THOSE WHO HAVE MULTIPLE PARTNERS, ANONYMOUS PARTNERS, ET CETERA.

FOR MANY MANY GAY MEN, THERE'S VIRTUALLY NO RISK, AGAIN, FOR THEM TO GET -- DEVELOP MONKEYPOX BECAUSE THEY'RE IN MONOGAMOUS RELATIONSHIPS, THEY HAVE LIMITED NUMBER OF SEX PARTNERS, WHATEVER.

SO IT'S REALLY THAT GROUP.

THERE WILL BE SOME SPILLOVER IN HOUSEHOLDS WHERE THERE MIGHT BE A MAN WHO WAS INFECTED WHO HAS CONTACT WITH PHENOMENON FAMILY MEMBERS, ACTUALLY TOUCHING THEIR SKIN WITH THESE LESIONS OR USING A TOWEL OR CLOTHING THAT THEY -- AN INFECTED PERSON USED.

BUT, GENERALLY SPEAKING, IT IS REALLY SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED AND PARTICULARLY IN THIS GROUP.

>> Eric: MINNESOTA BEHIND IN GETTING ENOUGH OF VACCINE FOR THIS?

I READ THAT THERE'S, WHAT, ONE FACTORY IN DENMARK THAT'S PRODUCING THIS?

>> YEAH.

WELL, YOU KNOW, THIS IS AN INTERESTING STORY IN THAT IT'S ONE THAT, BUT FOR THE UNITED STATES AND ALL THE EFFORTS THAT OUR GOVERNMENT MADE OVER THE LAST DECADE TO EVEN DEVELOP THIS NEW VACCINE, IT WOULDN'T BE DONE.

NO OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD DID THAT.

AND, SO, WHAT HAPPENED WAS IS THAT MONKEYPOX, WHICH WAS A DISEASE THAT MOST PEOPLE DIDN'T REALLY RECOGNIZE IS GOING TO BE A BIG PUBLIC HEALTH PROBLEM, WOULD HAVE SAID, HAD YOU TRIED TO STOCKPILE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOSES OF THIS VACCINE THAT WOULD BASICALLY OUTDATE IN SEVERAL YEARS, WHAT A WASTE OF MONEY.

WELL, NOW, OF COURSE, WE NEED IT.

AND, UNFORTUNATELY, THE WORLD NEEDS IT, NOT JUST THE UNITED STATES.

IN FACT, WE ARE NOT EVEN THE TOP COUNTRY IN THE WORLD FOR CASES BY POPULATION.

SPAIN HAS FIVE TIMES AS MANY CASES AS WE DO PER MILLION POPULATION.

UNITED KINGDOM HAS TWICE AS MANY.

SO WE ARE GOING TO BE, OVER THE COURSE OF THE NEXT MONTH, FAR FAR SHORT OF THE VACCINE WE NEED.

WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT NOW AND WE HAVE TO SET UP PLANS TO TRY TO VACCINATE THOSE AT HIGHEST RISK OF HAVING SERIOUS ILLNESS IF THEY DO DEVELOP MONKEYPOX.

>> Cathy: WHAT'S THE THEORY AS TO WHY THIS HAS POPPED UP NOW AND IS SPREADING AS FAST AS IT IS?

>> YOU KNOW, THIS IS AN INTERESTING SITUATION, CATHY.

I'M REMINDED BACK IN 2001, AS I WAS SERVING AS A SPECIAL ADVISOR AT THE TIME TO SECRETARY TOMMY THOMPSON AT HHS, AND WE WERE CONCERNED ABOUT BIOTERRORISM, SMALLPOX BEING AT THE FOREFRONT OF THAT.

AND I REMEMBER AN EVENING DINNER WHERE Dr. D.A.

HENDERSON, WHO IS THE FATHER OF THE SMALLPOX ERADICATION PROGRAM, SECRETARY THOMPSON AND OTHERS, ND WE TALKED ABOUT IN 2001, WE STOPPED VACCINATING THE WORLD FOR SMALLPOX IN 1908.

SO IN CENTRAL AFRICA, THE 12 COUNTRIES WHERE THE VIRUS IS INDIGENOUS IN THE ANIMAL POPULATION, THEY WERE PROTECTED AGAINST MONKEYPOX IF YOU VACCINATED AGAINST SMALLPOX.

WE'VE NOW GONE 40 YEARS WITH NO VACCINATION THERE.

370 MILLION LIVE THERE WHO ARE SUSCEPTIBLE TO THE VIRUS.

SO IT'S A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE THE VIRUS BLEW OUT OF AFRICA.

1980.

IN THIS ASE, IN GAY MEN WHO ARE HAVING MULTIPLE ANONYMOUS PARTNERS, MOST OFTEN, AND THAT'S A CHALLENGE THAT WE COULD HAVE AND SHOULD HAVE ANTICIPATED YEARS AGO AND DIDN'T.

>> Eric: IS THAT POPULATION ACCEPTING THE SITUATION AND TAKING STEPS?

>> WELL, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE POPULATION IN AFRICA OR GAY INCIDENT.

>> Eric: -- GAY MEN?

>> Eric: GAY MEN.

THERE'S A BIG CONCERN ABOUT STIGMATIZING GAY MEN AND I UNDERSTAND THAT.

THE BIG IS THAT MIGGIZATION THAT'S OCCURRING ARE MANY MANY IMAI MEN WHO ARE NOT RISK BECAUSE THERE'S IN MONOGAMOUS RELATIONSHIPS, THEY SAID, THEY HAVE VERY FEW SEX PARTNERS AND IT'S A BEHAVIOR, IT'S NOT A LABEL.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT IS IMPORTANT.

IF YOU'RE GOING TO SEX CLUBS, YOU'RE GOING TO GAY BATHS, YOU'RE HAVING NUMEROUS PARTNERS, THEN YOU ARE CLEARLY AT INCREASED RISK.

A STUDY IN THE UNITED KINGDOM FOUND OF THEIR CASES THERE, 44% OF THEM HAD BEEN TO A GROUP SEX PARTY IN THE TIME PERIOD JUST BEFORE THEY GOT INFECTED.

SO, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO WORK TOWARDS IS REDUCING THE RISK IN THAT GROUP AND WITHOUT ENOUGH VACCINE, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO OBVIOUSLY WORK IN ELIMINATING OR REDUCING THESE HIGH-RISK BEHAVIORS, AS WELL AS VACCINE.

>> Cathy: LET'S TALK ABOUT COVID-19.

THE CDC SAYS THAT THERE ARE NINE COUNTIES IN MINNESOTA RIGHT NOW THAT THEY ARE RECOMMENDING INDOOR MASKING BECAUSE OF HIGH LEVELS OF COVID INFECTIONS.

COVID NUMBERS IN MINNESOTA LAST WEEK, 1,455 CASES PER DAY.

WHAT DO THOSE NUMBERS TELL YOU?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THE NUMBER OF CASES DON'T TELL ME MUCH BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, AS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IN PREVIOUS MONTHS' VISITS HERE, TESTING IS AT AN ALL-TIME LOW, MOST OF IT IS BEING DONE AT HOME AND EVEN WHEN A POSITIVE RESULT OCCURS, IT'S NOT BEING REPORTED.

HOSPITALIZATIONS, RIGHT NOW WE'RE RUNNING 450 TO 460 HOSPITALIZATIONS A DAY, DEATHS ABOUT 25 A WEEK.

WHAT'S REALLY CHALLENGING, CATHY, IS DURING THE COURSE OF THE PANDEMIC IN THE FIRST SEVERAL YEARS, WE SAW THESE BIG PEAKS OF CASES, RISING VERY VERY QUICKLY, VERY HIGH LEVELS.

AND THEN BIG DROPS, VALLEYS THAT SEEMED AS IF WE WERE OVER IT.

WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW, WE'RE RIDING THE HIGH LAINS, IT'S A PLATEAU.

WE ARE AT A MEDIUM LEVEL BUT IT JUST STAYS THERE FOR THE LAST 12 WEEKS.

VERY LITTLE MOVEMENT.

AND THIS IS REALLY SOMETHING AROUND THE STATE.

THIS IS HAPPENING EVERYWHERE.

WE'RE SEEING A LOT OF TRANSMISSION RIGHT NOW OUT THERE.

FORTUNATELY, MORE OF THEM ARE MILDER ILLNESSES THAN IN PREVIOUS PARTS OF THE PANDEMIC.

BUT JUST THINK ABOUT THIS.

EVERY WEEK 450 PEOPLE A DAY ARE DYING, THAT'S IF YOU DO THE MATH ON THAT FOR A YEAR, THAT'S 164,000 PEOPLE.

THAT MAKES THIS SITUATION RIGHT NOW THE NUMBER FOUR CAUSE OF DEATH IN THIS COUNTRY.

AND I THINK PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE THAT.

>> Eric: SORRY.

WHAT'S BEEN THE DISCUSSION ABOUT THE TIMING OF THE NEXT BOOSTER?

>> WELL, AT THIS POINT, IT'S A MATTER OF WHEN WILL THE VACCINES BE AVAILABLE.

THE COMPANIES HAVE INDICATED NOW BY LATE SEPTEMBER.

YOU KNOW, I WILL HAVE TO SAY, WHAT'S BEEN INTERESTING IS, BA.5 SUBVARIANT SEEMS TO JUST STAY AND STAY AND STAY.

AND WE DON'T SEE ANYTHING ELSE ON THE HORIZON THAT APPEARS TO BE TRYING TO KNOCK IT OFF ITS KING'S CROWN.

SO I THINK THAT COULD MEAN THAT THESE VACCINES MAY HAVE MORE IMPACT IF WE GET THEM HERE SOONER.

BUT THE WAY TRANSMISSION'S OCCURRING RIGHT NOW, IT'S VERY LIKELY THAT MANY PEOPLE HAVE HAD BAVMENTD 5 INFECTION BEFORE THE VACCINES GET HERE.

BA5.

WE CAN'T BOOST OUR WAY OUT OF THE PANDEMIC.

CAN YOU VACCINATE EVERY FOUR TO FIVE, SIX MONTHS?

WE HAVE FEWER AND FEWER PEOPLE WILLING TO GET VACCINES.

SO WE'VE GOT TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO GET BETTER VACCINES SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO KEEP DOING OOSTING.

>> Cathy: AND, OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, I'VE HEARD FROM SO MANY PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN INFECTED THIS TIME AROUND, KIND OF TOWARD THE END HERE OF THE PANDEMIC, WITH BA.5, AND THEY KEEP GETTING REINFECTED, LIKE REPEAT INFECTIONS.

>> YEAH.

>> Cathy: WHAT'S THE ISSUE WITH THAT?

>> WELL, CATHY, THIS IS WHAT MAKES THIS VIRUS SO CHALLENGING.

YOU MAY RECALL, A LONG TIME AGO, AND YOU'VE REMINDED ME OF IT SINCE THAT TIME IN JANUARY OF 021, I YOU SAID, I THOUGHT THE DARKEST DAYS OF THE PANDEMIC WERE STILL AHEAD OF US BECAUSE WE SAW THE EMERGENCE OF THE VARIANTS BECAUSE THEY COULD BE MORE INFECTIOUS AND EVADE IMMUNE PROTECTION, THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED WITH DELTA, OMICRON AND NOW THE SUBVARIANTS OF OMICRON.

WHAT'S HAPPENING IS IS THAT THE VACCINES ARE NOT PROTECTING YOU AGAINST INFECTION, TO ANY REAL DEGREE.

THEY ARE SURELY PROTECTING YOU AGAINST SERIOUS ILLNESS, HOSPITALIZATIONS AND DEATHS.

THEY ALSO -- IT ALSO MEANS THAT YOU STILL MAY GET REINFECTED BECAUSE THE VIRUS ITSELF DOESN'T PRODUCE REALLY FIRM AND LONG-TERM IMMUNITY.

SO THIS IS A PROBLEM.

AND ONE OF THE REASONS, WHICH IS A CONCERN, BECAUSE WE STILL SEE BAD ILLNESSES, SECOND, THIRD INFECTIONS, AND WE SEE LONG COVID DEVELOPING ALSO IN THE SAME GROUP.

>> Cathy: IT'S ALWAYS A PLEASURE HAVING YOU.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT MONTH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Eric: THANK YOU.

>> Cathy: TAKE CARE.

SEE YOU.

>> ERIC: MINNESOTA'S PRIMARY CAMPAIGN SEASON ENDS TUESDAY, AND ONE OF THE MOST CLOSELY WATCHED RACES IS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY BATTLE FOR ATTORNEY GENERAL.

THERE ARE TWO LEADING CANDIDATES ON TUESDAY'S BALLOT.

AND WEEKS BACK WE INVITED BOTH TO DEBATE.

THAT DIDN'T WORK OUT.

SO WE'RE TALKING TO THEM ONE ON ONE.

TWO WEEKS AGO REPUBLICAN-PARTY-ENDORSED CANDIDATE JIM SCHULTZ SAT AT THE "ALMANAC" TABLE.

TONIGHT IT'S CHALLENGER DOUG WARDLOW'S TURN.

YOU MAY REMEMBER THAT WARDLOW LOST TO KEITH ELLISON FOUR YEARS AGO.

WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

YOU CAME WITHIN FOUR POINTS OF ELLISON FOUR YEARS AGO.

YOU DID SAY THIS TIME AROUND YOU WERE GOING TO ABIDE BY THE ENDORSEMENT AND THEN YOU DECIDED TO GO TO THE PRIMARY.

WHY DID YOU MAKE THAT DECISION?

>> WELL, YEAH, THANKS FOR HAVING ME ON.

>> Eric: SURE.

>> IT WOULD HAVE BEEN GREAT TO APPEAR WITH JIM BUT I KNOW JIM DIDN'T WANT TO APPEAR WITH ME ON ANY STAGE AND HE DOESN'T WANT TO DEBATE ME.

THAT'S UNFORTUNATE.

IT'S VERY FOOD TO BE HERE.

THE EN-- OOD TO BE HERE.

THE ENDORSEMENT PROCESS WAS TAINTED BY SMEARS AND LIES AND SCHEMES, AND WE CAN'T REWARD THAT KIND OF DIRTY POLITICS BY DROPPING OUT.

- THAT'S WHY I DECIDED TO GO FORWARD.

AND THEN HUNDREDS OF SUPPORTERS URGED ME AFTER HE ENDORSEMENT PROCESS CONCLUDED TO CONTINUE FORWARD BECAUSE THEY WANT A BOLD AMERICA FIRST CONSERVATIVE ON THE BALLOT SO THAT THEY CAN CHOOSE TO BE THEIR NOMINEE TO DEFEAT KEITH ELLISON.

THEY WANT SOMEONE WHO HAS EXPERIENCE, SOMEONE WHO AN BEAT KEITH ELLISON BUT TRANSFORM THE OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.

AND JIM SCHULTZ HAS NEVER HAPPENED IN A COURTROOM, HE HAS NEVER REPRESENTED A CLIENT, SINCE HE'S NEVER REPRESENTED A CLIENT, HOW CAN THE PEOPLE OF MINNESOTA TRUST HIM TO REPRESENT THE STATE AND THE PEOPLE IN SOME OF THE LARGEST AND MOST COMPLEX CONSTITUTIONAL AND CIVIL AND CRIMINAL CASES THERE ARE?

>> Cathy: YOU GOT TO GO THROUGH JIM SCHULTZ FIRST TO GET TO KEITH ELLISON.

SO HOW MUCH DAYLIGHT IS BETWEEN YOU AND Mr. SCHULTZ IN TERMS OF YOUR VIEWS ON THINGS?

>> WELL, QUITE A BIT.

I'M THE BOLD AMERICA FIRST CONSERVATIVE IN THIS RACE.

I'VE TAKEN STRONG POSITIONS, OF COURSE, ON LIFE AND ON ELECTION INTEGRITY.

MY OPPONENT, JIM SCHULTZ DOESN'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT ELECTION INTEGRITY, HE DOESN'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE 2020 ELECTION, HE DOESN'T HIGHLIGHT THAT AT ALL.

AND ALSO HE CAME OUT AND TOLD THE STAR TRIBUNE THAT HE FAVORS A BAN ON ABORTION BUT ONLY AFTER 20 WEEKS.

>> Eric: YOU SAID YOU'D GO TO WAR ON THE ABORTION ISSUE.

>> I SAID I'D WAGE WAR ON THE DOUGH VS. GOMEZ DECISION AND I WILL DO THAT.

BECAUSE THE DECISION, 1995 DECISION BY THE MINNESOTA SUPREME COURT, CREATED OUT OF WHOLE CLOTH, INVENTED A RIGHT TO ABORTION AND INSERTED IT, ESSENTIALLY, INTO THE MINNESOTA CONSTITUTION.

DOE VS. GOMEZ.

THAT'S NOT THERE, IT'S NOT IN THE CONSTITUTION, THAT'S BAD LAW, THAT DECISION IS ERRONEOUS AND I WOULD FIND WAYS TO GET IT OVERTURNED.

>> Eric: AND ATTORNEY GENERAL ELLISON DECIDED NOT TO APPEAL THAT.

HE SAID THAT HIS DEPARTMENT, HIS AGENCY HAD SPENT A LOT OF TIME AND MONEY LITIGATING T. DECIDED NOT TO GO FORWARD WITH AN APPEAL.

>> RIGHT, HE DECIDED NOT TO APPEAL.

AND I THINK THAT, IN DOING SO, HE FLOUTED HIS DUTIES TO DEFEND THE LAW.

IT'S THE JOB OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO DEFEND THE LAW, THE LAW IS PASSED BY THE PEOPLE'S REPRESENTATIVES.

AND THE PRO LIFE PROTECTIONS, INCLUDING THE 24-HOUR WAITING PERIOD, AND PARENTAL NOTIFICATION BY MINORS, THOSE ARE LAWS, AND ELLISON SHOULD HAVE FOUGHT FOR THEM AND HE DID NOT.

TRAVERSE COUNTY HAS FILED A MOTION TO INTERVENE IN THE CASE.

>> Cathy: WHAT DID YOU THINK OF THE KANSAS DECISION THIS WREAK?

>> THE KANSAS DECISION, I'M NOT PLEASED WITH THAT DECISION.

THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, THE QUESTION WAS WORDED VERY POORLY ON THE BALLOT.

SO I DON'T REALLY THINK IT INDICATES MUCH OF ANYTHING.

>> Eric: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN WON THE ELECTION FAIR AND SQUARE OVER PRESIDENT TRUMP?

>> NO, I DON'T.

I DON'T.

I THINK THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN, CORRUPT.

AND I THINK WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS INVESTIGATE AND PROSECUTE VOTER FRAUD.

WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED AND THEN HE GOING FORWARD, MAKE SURE NOTHING LIKE THAT EVER HAPPENS AGAIN.

WE NEED TO FIND OUT WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ATTEMPTING TO RIG THE ELECTIONS AND IF WE FIND EVIDENCE THAT PEOPLE HAVE DONE THAT, THEN WE PROSECUTE THEM.

>> Cathy: BUT OTHER COURTS HAVE WEIGHED IN, MANY MANY COURTS HAVE WEIGHED IN OVER THE PAST -- >> USUALLY THOSE CASES, THEY'RE THROWN OUT ON STANDING, THE CASE -- >> Cathy: REPUBLICAN-POINTED JUDGES, THOUGH.

>> IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S A REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT-APPOINTED JUDGE, THEY SHOULD BE APPLYING THE LAW, RIGHT?

>> Eric: MISSION CREEP, THOUGH?

>> NOT AT ALL.

NOT AT ALL.

>> Eric: COUNTY ATTORNEYS WOULD BE HANDLING VOTER FRAUD CASES.

WHAT WOULD YOUR ROLE BE?

>> THE JOB OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IS TO SUPPORT COUNTY ATTORNEYS IN PROSECUTIONS.

THIS GOES FOR JUST GENERAL PROSECUTIONS AS WELL.

WE NEED TO REBUILD THE CRIMINAL DIVISION OF THE OFFICE, WHICH IS DWINDLED DOWN TO JUST ONE TTORNEY.

STAFF IT WITH VETERAN PROSECUTORS, REALLY HELP OUT THE COUNTY ATTORNEYS, ESPECIALLY IN THE AREAS WHERE THEY DON'T HAVE A LOT OF EXPERTISE.

SO THAT WOULD INCLUDE ELECTION INTEGRITY, VOTER FRAUD, HUMAN TRAFFICKING, THAT'S A HUGE PROBLEM IN MINNESOTA, IT'S BEEN ON THE RISE FOR YEARS, WE'VE GOT TO STAMP IT OUT, ND ELLISON DOES NOTHING ABOUT IT.

JIM SCHULTZ DOESN'T TALK ABOUT T. I'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT IT FOR FIVE YEARS, WE'RE GOING TO REBUILD THE OFFICE, CRIMINAL DIVISION OF THE A.G.'S OFFICE, CREATE VIOLENT CRIME PROSECUTION UNIT TO MAKE SURE THE STREETS ARE SAFE.

>> Eric: YOU'RE GOING TO NEED MORE PROSECUTORS.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

WE'RE GOING TO REALLOCATE THINGS WITHIN THE OFFICE, SHIFT THINGS AROUND.

IT'S A LARGE OFFICE, 150 LIT GATORS AND THAT'S WHY IT'S IMPORTANT THAT YOU HAVE A CONSTITUTIONAL LAWYER, SOMEBODY WHO'S BEEN IN COURT TIME AND TIME AGAIN TO RUN AND OVERSEE THAT OFFICE.

YOU CAN'T SUPERVISE LIT GATORS IF YOU'VE NEVER LITIGATED A CASE AND JIM SCHULTZ HAS NEVER LITIGATED A CASE.

>> Cathy: THIS SOUNDS LIKE ECHOES OF PRESIDENT TRUMP.

HAVE YOU ASKED THE ABOUT THE FOR HIS ENDORSEMENT?

>> I HAVE MET WITH THE PRESIDENT, PRESIDENT TRUMP, SEVERAL WEEKS AGO, AND I WOULD VERY MUCH WELCOME HIS ENDORSEMENT.

>> Eric: WHAT KIND OF INTERCHANGE DID YOU TWO HAVE?

>> WE HAD A NICE DISCUSSION.

>> Eric: AND IS HE GOING TO SIT IT OUT OR ARE WE GOING TO SEE SOMETHING OVER THE WEEKEND?

>> WE'LL SEE WHAT HE SAYS.

>> Eric: APPRECIATE YOU COMING BY.

THANKS VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> Eric: YOU BET.

A EMINDER THAT REPUBLICANS OR, OF COURSE, ANYONE ELSE CAN WATCH OUR INTERVIEW FROM TWO WEEKS AGO WITH JIM SCHULTZ ON OUR WEBSITE.

THAT'S AT TPT.ORG/ALMANAC.

JUST PUT SCHULTZ'S NAME IN THE SEARCH BOX.

LATER IN THE HOUR, A LOOK AT THE PBS SERIES "AMERICA OUTDOORS" AS IT VENTURES TO THE BOUNDARY WATERS.

BUT NEXT UP, SHELETTA BRUNDIDGE HAS A BIT OF FUN.

>> WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF MY FAVORITE MINNESOTA SEASON, THAT'S RIGHT, HONEY, IT IS FAIR SEASON!

YOU GOT YOUR STRAWBERRY FESTIVAL IN COTTAGE GROVE.

THE MEEKER COUNTY FAIR IN LITCHFIELD.

AND ABOUT A DOZEN OTHERS.

I LIKE TO THINK OF ALL OF THEM AS GETTING US READY FOR THE GREAT MINNESOTA GET TOGETHER LATER THIS MONTH.

YOU SEE, THESE SMALLER FAIRS ARE LIKE GOING TO THE GYM WHERE YOU CAN WORK OUT AND GET YOUR BODY READY AND THE MINNESOTA STATE FAIR IS THE OLYMPICS WHERE YOU ACTUALLY GET THE MEDAL.

YOU SEE, HANGIN' OUT AT THE FREEBORN COUNTY FAIR IN ALBERT LEA WILL HELP ME LEARN HOW TO STRETCH OUT MY STOMACH MUSCLES.

SO I CAN EAT ONE MORE OF WHATEVER IS ON A STICK THIS YEAR.

AND BEING AT THE PINE COUNTY FAIR WILL BUILD UP MY TOLERANCE TO STAND IN THOSE LONG LINES TO GET A BUCKET OF SWEET MARTHA'S COOKIES.

BUT IT ALSO HAD HELPED ME REALIZE MY LIMITATIONS ECAUSE I WAS TODAY YEARS OLD WHEN THE KITTY MERRY-GO-ROUND AT THE WASHINGTON COUNTY FAIR FELT LIKE I WAS RIDING A DEATH-DEFYING ROLLER COASTER THAT REQUIRED YOU TO SIGN A RELEASE BEFORE EVEN GETTING ON WITH A RECORD-BREAKING NUMBER OF TWISTS AND 5011 UPSIDE DOWN TURNS.

I WENT LOOKING FOR A MEDIC WHEN GOT OFF THAT THING.

I SWEAR TO Y'ALL, I FELT LIKE I WAS DYIN'.

NOW, LISTEN, I KNOW JESUS, BUT I JUST DON'T WANT TO MEET HIM IN PERSON TODAY.

>> YES!

[ Applause ] >> CATHY: NEXT MONDAY TPT AND MANY PBS STATIONS WILL AIR THE FINAL EPISODE IN THE SIX-PART SERIES "AMERICA OUTDOORS" HOSTED BY BARATUNDE THURSTON.

THE SERIES -- CREATED BY TWIN CITIES PBS-- ENDS WITH AN EPISODE FEATURING MINNESOTA.

ONE OF THE STOPS ON THE HOUR-LONG NATURAL TOUR OF OUR STATE IS THE BOUNDARY WATERS CANOE AREA.

LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT AN EXCERPT.

>> I'M ON THE EDGE OF THE BOUNDARY WATERS CANOE AREA WILDERNESS, THE MOST VISITED WILDERNESS AREA IN ALL OF AMERICA.

WHAT'S OPENING UP BEFORE ME NOW IS OVER A MILLION ACRES OF WILD LANDS AND FRESH WATER THAT EXTENDS FROM NORTHERN MINNESOTA ALL THE WAY INTO CANADA.

I'VE COME HERE IN ONE SENSE TO EXPERIENCE NATURE IN ITS PUREST STATE POSSIBLE.

BUT I'M NOT PLANNING TO DO THAT ALONE.

TODAY I'M MEETING UP WITH A COUPLE WHO DEVOTED ALMOST A DECADE TO EXPLORING THIS PLACE AND PUSHING TO KEEP IT PROTECTED.

THEIR NAMES ARE DAVE AND AMY FREEMAN.

>> HELLO.

>> HEY!

>> HI.

>> WELCOME.

HOW WAS YOUR PADDLE?

>> IT WAS NICE.

THIS IS AN EPICALLY BEAUTIFUL SPOT.

>> YEAH.

WELL, THANKS FOR JOINING US.

THIS IS WHITE IRON LAKE.

>> OKAY.

>> IT'S PART OF THE RIVER.

AND WE'RE RIGHT ON THE EDGE OF THE BOUNDARY WATERS CANOE AREA, WHICH IS HE LARGEST WILDERNESS AREA EAST OF OF THE ROCKIES AND NORTH OF OF GLADES.

FULL OF LAKES LIKE THIS.

IT'S OUR FAVORITE PLACE IN THE WORLD.

REALLY SPECIAL PLACE.

>> I CAN SEE WHY.

♪♪ ♪ POLKA MUSIC ♪ >> ERIC: MANY MINNESOTA STUDENTS WILL HEAD BACK TO SCHOOL BY THE END OF THE MONTH.

ADDED TO THE LIST OF CONCERNS AS THE NEW SCHOOL YEAR APPROACHES IS SAFETY IN THE CLASSROOM.

UVALDE IS STILL ON THE MINDS OF MANY PARENTS AND TEACHERS AND OTHER SCHOOL WORKERS.

WE'RE GOING TO SPEND THE REST OF THE HOUR TALKING ABOUT SCHOOL SAFETY WITH THE FOUNDERS OF THE VIOLENCE PROJECT.

THAT'S A NON-PARTISAN RESEARCH AND POLICY CENTER THAT MAINTAINS THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE DATABASE ON MASS SHOOTINGS.

THE VIOLENCE PROJECT IS A GLOBAL RESOURCE THAT IS BASED HERE IN THE TWIN CITIES.

DR. JILLIAN PETERSON IS THE CO-FOUNDER OF THE VIOLENCE PROJECT.

SHE'S A PSYCHOLOGIST AT HAMLINE UNIVERSITY.

FELLOW CO-FOUNDER DR. JAMES DENSLEY IS A SOCIOLOGIST AT METRO STATE UNIVERSITY.

PROFESSOR, IS THERE A COMMON PROFILE FOR A SCHOOL SHOOTER?

>> YOU DO SEE COMMONALITIES AMONG SCHOOL SHOOTERS.

WE LIKE TO STAY AWAY FROM THE TERM "PROFILE" AND KIND OF TALK ABOUT IT AS A PATHWAY, BUT THEY TEND TO BE YOUNG MALE STUDENTS OF THE SCHOOL, OVER 90% ARE STUDENTS OF THAT SCHOOL OR FORMER STUDENTS.

THEY TEND TO BE IN CRISIS, SHOWING NOTICEABLE CHANGES IN THEIR BEHAVIOR, THEY'RE SUICIDAL, MANY OF THEM HAVE ATTEMPTED SUICIDE, THEY OFTEN COME FROM TRAUMATIC FAMILY BACKGROUNDS, AND THEN THEY'RE SPENDING TIME ON SOCIAL MEDIA GETTING RADICALIZED, MANY OF THEM LEAK THEIR PLANS AND TELL OTHER PEOPLE THAT THEY'RE THINKING OF DOING THIS AND THEN THEY TEND TO USE GUNS THAT THEY TAKE FROM THEIR PARENTS.

>> Cathy: WHAT'S THE TRIGGER, NORMALLY?

NO PUN INTENDED HERE.

BUT WHAT'S THE INCIDENT OR SOMETHING THAT JUST PUTS THEM OVER THE DGE?

>> I THINK FOR THESE YOUNG PEOPLE, THERE'S A SENSE THAT NOBODY SEES THEM.

AND THEY WANT THE WORLD TO KNOW WHO THEY ARE.

AND THEY WANT TO BE SEEN AND FEEL SEEN.

AND, SO, THEY GET TO THIS POINT WHERE THERE'S A SENSE THAT THEY NO LONGER CARE IF THEY LIVE OR DIE.

AND AS WE MENTIONED, IT IS A SUICIDAL CRISIS.

AND THAT REALLY CHANGES THE WAY YOU THINK ABOUT THESE TYPES OF SCHOOL SHOOTINGS BECAUSE IT'S INTENDED TO BE A FINAL ACT, IT'S INTENDED TO BE A SPECTACLE, IT'S INTENDED TO MAKE EVERYBODY WATCH.

SO OU FINALLY SEE THAT PERSON.

AND IT'S THAT CRISIS IS THE TIPPING POINT.

ONCE YOU GET TO THAT POINT OF, I NO LONGER CARE IF I LIVE OR DIE, AND I'M GOING TO DO THIS SO THAT THE WORLD NOW SEES WHO I AM.

>> Eric: YOU SEE THE REPORTS COME ON CABLE NEWS CHANNEL, THE BREAKING NEWS, YOU SEE THE SHOOTING, YOU SAY, THIS PERSON MUST BE CRAZY.

IS THAT TOO FACILE, DOES MENTAL ILLNESS PLAY A PART OF THIS?

>> THAT'S SOMETHING WE'VE TAKEN A REALLY CLOSE LOOK AT.

AS A PSYCHOLOGIST, WAS REALLY INTERESTED IN REALLY UNDERSTANDING WHAT THAT RELATIONSHIP IS.

YOU DO SEE MENTAL HEALTH HISTORIES IN ABOUT 2/3 OF THE PERPETRATORS.

ONLY ABOUT 10% OF CASES CAN YOU SAY THAT SYMPTOMS OF PSYCHOSIS, DELUSIONS, HALLUCINATIONS, REALLY DROVE THAT MASS SHOOTING AND EVEN IN THOSE CASES, THERE'S OTHER THINGS GOING ON.

FOR MOST PERPETRATORS, IT'S A LONG, COMPLEX PATHWAY TO VIOLENCE THAT MENTAL ILLNESS SOMETIMES PLAYS A PART IN, SOMETIMES DOESN'T.

I WOULD SAY NONE OF THEM ARE, OF COURSE, MENTALLY WELL.

THEY ALL NEED HUMAN CONNECTION, THEY'RE ALL LOOKING FOR SOMETHING, THEY'RE ALL IN CRISIS, THEY'RE ALL SUICIDAL.

BUT DO THEY MEET CRITERIA FOR A SPECIFIC MENTAL ILLNESS USUALLY?

NO.

WE DON'T SEE THOSE PATTERNS.

>> Cathy: DO PARENTS HAVE AN IDEA OF WHAT'S GOING ON PRIOR?

I MEAN, THAT THERE IS TROUBLE.

>> THAT'S REALLY GOOD QUESTION BECAUSE WE'VE INTERVIEWED IN THE COURSE OF OUR WORK PARENTS OF MASS SHOOTERS, BUT ALSO PARENTS OF AVERTED SHOOTERS, PEOPLE WHO NEVER WENT THROUGH WITH THE ACTIVITY.

AND WE SEE SORT OF THIS PATTERN OF SOME PARENTS WHO REALLY DID KNOW THAT THERE WAS SOMETHING BUT THEY DIDN'T NECESSARILY THINK IT WAS GOING TO BE A SHOOTING.

THEY JUST KNEW THAT MY SON WAS IN CRISIS.

AND THEY WERE TRYING TO GET HELP, BUT THE SYSTEMS JUST WEREN'T IN PLACE, THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHO TO CALL, THEY DIDN'T TRUST THE POLICE, THINGS JUST WEREN'T FALLING TOGETHER FOR THEM.

THERE WERE OTHER PARENTS WHO WERE SORT OF OBLIVIOUS TO WHAT WAS GOING ON.

THEY WERE PERHAPS DISTRACTED WITH THINGS GOING ON IN THEIR OWN LIVES.

AND THEN THERE WAS ALSO A GROUP OF PARENTS WHO YOU MIGHT SAY WERE SORT OF COMPLICIT IN THIS, WHICH IS THAT THEY WERE PURCHASING FIREARMS FOR THEIR CHILDREN OR NOT STORING THEM SAFELY IN THE HOME.

AND IN THE KNOWLEDGE THAT THIS PERSON WAS CRYING OUT FOR HELP, JUST WERE NOT GIVING THEM THE HELP THAT THEY WERE ASKING FOR.

>> Eric: COULD YOU BOTH TALK ABOUT THE IMPACT OF SOCIAL MEDIA?

I JUST GOT THE IMPRESSION READING ABOUT YOUR STUFF, READING YOUR STUFF AND HEARING YOU SPEAK, THAT THIS IS A BIG CULPRIT HERE.

>> YEAH.

WE THINK THAT SOCIAL MEDIA KIND OF HAS ESCALATED THIS.

SO THERE'S THIS SOCIAL CONTAGION ASPECT OF MASS SHOOTINGS WHERE ONE HAPPENS, YOU TEND TO SEE ANOTHER ONE HAPPEN, ANOTHER ONE HAPPEN IN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.

THEY TEND TO CLUSTER.

AND, SO, SOMEONE WHO'S ON THE EDGE, WHO'S THINKING ABOUT THIS, WHO'S FEELING UNSEEN SEES THEMSELVES IN THIS OTHER PERPETRATOR WHO GETS ALL THIS ATTENTION, WHO DEPOSE VIRAL ON SOCIAL MEDIA -- GOES VIRAL ON SOCIAL MEDIA, WHO'S MANIFESTOS ARE READ, WHOSE YouTube VIDEOS ARE OBSESSED OVER.

AND THROUGH SOCIAL MEDIA YOU'RE ALSO ABLE TO FIND OTHER PEOPLE THINKING LIKE YOU.

SO WE SEE THESE CHAT ROOMS OR THE PLACES ONLINE WHERE YOUNG MEN ARE GOING, WELL IDOLIZING VIOLENCE, TALKING ABOUT THESE SCHOOL SHOOTERS LIKE THEY ARE THEIR IDOLS, THEY SEE THEMSELVES, AND THEY'RE REALLY BEING SORT OF PUSHED TOWARDS VIOLENCE.

SO, SOCIAL MEDIA PLAYS A REALLY SIGNIFICANT ROLE.

>> Cathy: I'M CURIOUS, THEY'RE ALL MALE.

AND WHY IS THAT?

>> YEAH, OUR SAMPLE'S 98% MALE.

I MEAN, WE COULD DO A WHOLE SHOW ON WHY MEN ARE MORE VIOLENT THAN WOMEN, CERTAINLY.

MOST MURDERS ARE OVER 09% MALE.

90% MALE.

THESE PERPETRATORS, I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF SELF-HATE AND WE KNOW THAT MEN, THAT KIND OF SHAME, THAT SELF-HATE TENDS TO GO OUTWARD IN TERMS OF VIOLENCE, FOR WOMEN IT'S MORE LIKELY TO GO INWARD, IN TERMS OF DEPRESSION, ANXIETY, SO THAT'S PART OF IT.

>> Eric: WONDERED ABOUT BROMIDE, EVERYONE'S GOING TO BE FAMOUS FOR 15 MINUTES AND IF THAT ISN'T PART OF THE ATTRACTION SOCIAL MEDIA BRINGS TO THE SITUATION.

>> THERE'S AN ELEMENT OF FAME SEEKING TO SOME OF THIS BEHAVIOR, BUT, ACTUALLY, WHEN WE STUDIED THIS, WE LOOKED AT THOSE WHO WERE LEAKING THEIR PLANS IN ADVANCE, SO THEY WERE TELEGRAPHING THAT THIS VIOLENCE WAS GOING TO COME, IT WAS SPILLING OUT TO THEM, IF YOU UNDERSTAND THAT TERMINOLOGY, AND WHAT WE ACTUALLY SAW IS THAT IT WAS CORRELATED WITH PRIOR COUNSELING, MENTAL HEALTH CONCERNS, SUICIDAL IDEATION, AND IT MADE US THINK THAT THIS IS LESS ABOUT FAME SEEKING AND MORE ABOUT BEING A CRY FOR HELP.

IF YOU WERE TELEGRAPHING THAT THIS WAS GOING TO HAPPEN, YOU WANTED SOMEBODY TO PAY ATTENTION, YOU WANTED SOMEBODY TO INTERVENE.

AND MAYBE SOMEBODY ASN'T IS THE KEY.

BUT I WILL SAY THAT THERE IS THIS COPYCAT ELEMENT TO SOME OF THESE SHOOTINGS WHERE THERE IS THIS SENSE OF, I'M PART OF SOMETHING BIGGER.

AND THEN YOU GET INTO THAT FAME-SEEKING TYPE OF MENTALITY BECAUSE YOU KNOW THAT THIS IS A SPECTACLE AND YOU KNOW THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO TALK ABOUT IT, THEY'RE GOING TO WITNESS IT.

>> Eric: ET'S TALK ABOUT SOLUTION, WHAT WORKS, WHAT DOESN'T TO PREVENT?

>> YEAH, SO WE'VE BUILT THIS DATABASE, WE DID, YOU KNOW, DOZENS AND DOZENS OF INTERVIEWS AND WE PUT IT TOGETHER IN A BOOK WE JUST PUBLISHED CALLED "THE VIOLENCE PROJECT."

IN HAT BOOK WE OUTLINE OVER 30 DIFFERENT SOLUTIONS THAT COME FROM OUR DATA.

SO THINGS THAT WE CAN DO AT THE SOCIETAL LEVEL, AS INSTITUTIONS, AND AS INDIVIDUALS TO KIND OF INTERRUPT THIS PATHWAY TO VIOLENCE AT THESE DIFFERENT POINTS.

SO THINGS LIKE RISIS INTERVENTION TRAINING AND SUICIDE PREVENTION IN SCHOOLS.

THINGS LIKE SAFE STORAGE OF FIREARMS.

THINGS LIKE WATCHING HAT YOU SHARE AND LIKE ON SOCIAL MEDIA AND TEACHING MEDIA LITERACY AND EVEN THINGS LIKE MENTORING YOUNG BOYS WHO HAVE BEEN THROUGH TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCES AND TEACHING SOCIAL EMOTIONAL LEARNING IN SCHOOLS.

YOU CAN KIND OF INTERVENE AT EACH OF THESE STEPS ON THE PATHWAY TO VIOLENCE.

>> Cathy: WHAT'S THE ROLE OF MEDIA, I WONDER, BECAUSE, I MEAN, WE NO LONGER, WHEN SOMEONE TAKES THEIR OWN LIFE, WE DON'T TALK ABOUT HOW THAT HAPPENED.

REMEMBER THE OLD DAYS, WE WOULD ALWAYS SAY HOW SOMEONE TOOK THEIR LIFE.

>> YEAH.

>> Cathy: WE DON'T DO THAT BECAUSE OF COPYCAT ITCH.

SO -- COP CAPISM.

WHAT'S THE ROLE OF THE GENERAL MEDIA?

>> WE'VE LEARNED A LOT FROM SUICIDE PREVENTION HICH CAN BE APPLIED TO MASS SHOOTING PREVENTION.

SO I THINK, REALLY, THE KEY THING IS, WE'RE VERY MUCH PROPONENTS OF THIS IDEA OF NO NOTORIETY, SO WE DON'T WANT TO NAME THE SHOOTERS, WE DON'T WANT TO GIVE THEM A PLATFORM FOR SOME OF THE IDEOLOGY THAT PERHAPS THEY'RE TRYING TO PROFESS IN THE SHOOTINGS THAT THEY DO.

SO IT'S A REALLY SENSITIVE BALANCE ABOUT HOW WE TALK ABOUT THESE SHOOTINGS IN A WAY THAT DOESN'T GLORIFY THEIR ACTIONS AND INSPIRE COPYCATS.

BUT ALSO, I THINK, UPLIFTING THE STORIES OF THE SURVIVORS, THE VICTIMS, AND THE HEROES.

THE PEOPLE WHO WERE THERE ON THE FRONT LINES SAVING LIVES.

THE MORE WE CAN TELL THOSE STORIES, I THINK, THE MORE THAT WE CAN REALLY RELATE TO THESE CASES.

WE'RE GOING TO CHANGE THE NARRATIVE AROUND WHAT IS GOING ON HERE AND OT GLORIFY THE ACTIONS OF THE SHOOTERS THEMSELVES.

>> Eric: STUFF LIKE HARDENING THE ENTRANCES TO A SCHOOL, TEACHERS ARMED, MORE POLICE OFFICERS IN THE SCHOOL.

HOW ABOUT THAT STUFF?

WHAT WORKS, WHAT DOESN'T IN THAT REALM?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK OUR FINDING THAT OVER 91% OF PERPETRATORS ARE STUDENTS OR FORMER STUDENTS OF THAT SCHOOL REALLY CHANGES HOW YOU THINK ABOUT THESE THINGS.

BECAUSE A LOT OF THAT HARDENING IS BASED ON THE PREMISE THAT THESE ARE SCARY OUTSIDERS COMING IN.

RIGHT?

INSTEAD, THESE ARE YOUNG PEOPLE IN THAT SCHOOL GOING IN AND OUT OF THAT SECURITY EVERY DAY, RUNNING THROUGH THOSE ACTIVE SHOOTER DRILLS WITH EVERYBODY ELSE.

THEY KNOW EXACTLY WHERE THE ARMED OFFICERS ARE.

AND, IN FACT, THEY'RE GOING IN, IN MANY CASES, COULD BE KILLED.

RIGHT?

THAT IS THE GOAL.

IT IS A SUICIDE.

WE'VE INTERVIEWED PERPETRATORS WHO SAID, I WENT IN KNOWING THE SRO WOULD SHOOT ME, YOU KNOW.

IT BECOMES PART OF THE PLAN.

>> Eric: SUICIDE BY COP, IS THAT WHAT THEY CALL IT?

>> EXACTLY, XXLY.

A LOT OF THAT HARDENING IS BASED ON SOME ASSUMPTIONS THAT ARE JUST NOT TRUE, NOW THAT WE HAVE THE DATA TO KNOW, THESE ARE KIDS IN OUR SCHOOL THAT WE SEE EVERY DAY, IT MAKES PREVENTION A LOT MORE POSSIBLE, I THINK.

>> Eric: ARMING THE STAFF?

>> I THINK IT'S A TERRIBLE IDEA BECAUSE WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT T COMES DOWN TO WITH POLICE INVOLVEMENT, WE'VE HAD A MASSIVE CONVERSATION NATIONWIDE OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS AROUND POLICE USE OF FORCE AND EXCESSIVE FORCE, AND THESE ARE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE TRAINED DAY IN DAY OUT TO USE FIREARMS UNDER STRESS AND THEY MAKE MASSIVE MISTAKES.

IF WE'RE NOW SAYING WE'RE GOING TO TRAIN TEACHERS, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE LESS TRAINING, AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO UT THEM IN THESE VERY TENSE CIRCUMSTANCES, EXPECT THEM TO EACT, I THINK THAT'S A REALLY DANGEROUS IDEA.

AND, AGAIN, IT GOES BACK TO THE DATA, BECAUSE IF THE INTENTION IS THAT YOU WILL DIE ON THE SCENE BECAUSE THIS IS MEANT TO BE A SUICIDE, WHAT YOU MIGHT BE DOING IS PROVOKING A TEACHER TO MAKING THAT DECISION.

AND TEACHERS, WHEN YOU TALK TO TEACHERS, THEY LOVE THEIR STUDENTS.

AND YOU'RE PUTTING THEM IN AN IMPOSSIBLE SITUATION.

SO I THINK IT'S A REALLY BAD POLICY.

AND THE EVIDENCE WOULD SUPPORT THAT.

>> Cathy: NOW YOU MENTIONED SOCIETAL AND COMMUNITY SOLUTIONS, BUT INDIVIDUAL SOLUTIONS AS WELL.

SO WHAT WOULD THOSE BE?

>> WELL, I THINK THE BIGGEST ONE, REALLY, IS SOMETHING LIKE SAFE STORAGE OF FIREARMS, PARTICULARLY IF YOU'VE GOT TEENAGERS IN THE HOME.

SO IF YOU KNOW YOU'VE GOT A TEENAGER WHO'S IN CRISIS, SHOWING SOME OF THOSE WARNING SIGNS, THAT'S NOT THE TIME TO BE GETTING THEM ACCESS TO A FIREARM.

I THINK THE OTHER PIECE ABOUT THIS, THOUGH, IS BEING ATTUNED TO WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE LIVES OF OUR YOUNG PEOPLE.

KNOWING THE WARNING SIGNS THAT SOMEBODY'S BEHAVIOR IS CHANGING.

AND IT WILL LOOK DIFFERENT FOR EVERY KID.

BUT IF ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU THINK, SOMETHING'S NOT QUITE RIGHT HERE, YOU WANT TO GET THEM HELP, AND IT'S NOT TO HURT THEM, IT'S NOT TO PUNISH THEM, BECAUSE I THINK THE MENTALITY IS, IF YOU THINK ABOUT THIS AS A SUICIDE, WE WANT TO HELP THAT PERSON, WE DON'T WANT TO CRIMINALLY CHARGE THEM, EXCLUDE THEM FROM SCHOOL, SUSPEND THEM.

WE WANT TO, INSTEAD, WRAP OURSELVES AROUND THEM, GIVE THEM HELP.

AND THAT REALLY IS THE KEY THING WE CAN ALL BE DOING FOR ONE ANOTHER.

WATCH OUT FOR THOSE WARNING SIGNS.

AND BE WILLING TO INTERVENE AND HAVE THOSE DIFFICULT CONVERSATIONS.

>> Cathy: DO YOU ORRY BECAUSE OF THE PANDEMIC AND ALL THAT HAS OCCURRED IN THE PAST TWO, THREE YEARS, AND THE ISOLATION THAT MANY KIDS FEEL THAT WE'LL SEE MORE OF THIS HAPPEN?

>> I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.

YOU KNOW, WE JUST HAD THIS HORRIFIC STRING OF MASS SHOOTINGS AND THEY WERE ALL, YOU KNOW, 18-YEAR-OLD MEN WHO JUST CAME OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL DURING A PANDEMIC, ISOLATED FOR THE LAST FEW YEARS.

IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT BECAUSE SO MANY OF THE WARNING SIGNS, SO MANY OF THE RISK FACTORS THAT WE KNOW OF ARE REALLY ESCALATED DURING THE PANDEMIC.

ISOLATION AND HOPELESSNESS AND DEPRESSION AND DISCONNECTION AND SOCIAL MEDIA USE AND GUN SALES.

YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING IS KIND OF THIS PERFECT STORM OF RISKING FACTORS.

YEAH, WE ARE WORRIED.

>> Eric: IS THE SCHOOL SHOOTER THE SAME CHARACTERISTICS AS SOMEBODY GOING INTO THE GROCERY STORE IN BUFFALO, ARE THEY SIMILAR PROFILES?

I DON'T KNOW YOU DON'T LIKE -- I KNOW YOU DON'T LIKE THAT WORD.

>> YOU DO SEE DIFFERENCES BASED ON LOCATION.

THIS PATHWAY OF KIND OF A TRAUMATIC CHILDHOOD, CRISIS, SUICIDALITY LEAKAGE, WE SEE THAT CONSISTENTLY ACROSS ALL PERPETRATORS.

BUT YOU DO SEE THINGS LIKE WORKPLACE SHOOTERS TEND TO BE IN THEIR 40s WHO WERE RECENTLY FIRED.

PLACES LIKE, YOU NO L KNOW, THE GROCERY STORE SHOOTING IN BUFFALO, THERE TENDS TO BE A SLIGHT IDEOLOGY, THE FOCUS, INSTEAD OF THE ANGER DIRECTED AT OUR SCHOOL, THE ANGER IS DIRECTED AT WOMEN OR RACIAL GROUP OR RELIGIOUS GROUP.

SO IT'S KIND OF WHO YOU BLAME FOR YOUR GRIEVANCE WITH THE WORLD.

>> Cathy: AND THAT'S WHY -- SO THESE SCHOOL SHOOTERS ARE BLAMING THEIR PROBLEMS ON THE SCHOOL?

>> RIGHT.

>> Cathy: THAT'S WHERE IT'S COMING OUT.

>> RIGHT.

>> Eric: ANY PLACE IN THE COUNTRY WHERE SOLUTIONS ARE WORKING OR DO YOU HAVE A WAY TO EVALUATE LOCAL ON-THE-GROUND PROGRAMS OR SOMETHING THAT MIGHT BE WORKING?

>> YEAH.

THERE ARE SOME MODELS OF BEST PRACTICE, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S CHALLENGING AT THE MOMENT IS THAT PEOPLE OFTEN TALK ABOUT THIS CONCEPT OF THREAT ASSESSMENT AS BEING A SOLUTION TO THIS PROBLEM.

AND I THINK THE IDEA BEHIND THREAT ASSESSMENT IS REALLY GOOD.

WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO IS TAKE ALL THE INFORMATION THAT EVERYBODY HAS, WHETHER IT'S A PARENT OR A EACHER OR AN ADMINISTRATOR OR POLICE OFFICER, AND MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE INFORMATION SHARING, COMMUNICATING WITH ONE ANOTHER, AND THEN USING THAT INFORMATION TO MAKE GOOD DECISIONS.

I THINK WHERE WE GET STUCK IS THE TERM "THREAT."

BECAUSE IF YOU SEE SOMEBODY WHILE NOT INHERENTLY THREATENING OR YOU CAN'T ENVISION THAT THIS KID RIGHT HERE IN FRONT OF ME MIGHT BE A SCHOOL SHOOTER, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO INTERPRET IT THE SAME WAY, WHICH IS WHY WE PREFER TO THINK OF THESE ARE KIDS IN CRISIS, THESE ARE KIDS THAT JUST NEED HELP, THEY'RE NOT NECESSARILY INHERENTLY THREATENING, BUT THEY NEED SOME SORT OF INTERVENTION.

AND THAT CHANGES THE WAY WE THINK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS NEXT.

BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE BEST PRACTICE IS EXACTLY THIS, THE JOINED-UP INFORMATION SHARING AND COMMUNICATION TO MAKE SURE THAT WHEN SOMEONE'S PRESENTING IN FRONT OF YOU, YOU CAN HELP THEM.

>> Cathy: GO AHEAD.

>> OH, I WOULD JUST ALSO ADD, REALLY STRONG RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN YOUNG PEOPLE AND ADULTS IN THE SCHOOL, THE MOST COMMON PERSON TO KNOW THAT A SHOOTER'S GOING TO DO THIS IS A CLASSMATE AND WE'VE STUDIED CASES WHERE 50, 60 KIDS KNEW IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN AND NO ONE TOLD ANYONE.

SO THE MORE THAT WE CAN REALLY CULTIVATE THOSE WARM ENVIRONMENTS, THOSE TRUSTING RELATIONSHIPS, EVEN ANONYMOUS REPORTING SYSTEMS, BUT WAYS THAT KIDS CAN GET THIS INFORMATION TO ADULTS.

>> Eric: WHAT'S PREVENTING THAT?

THAT SHARING OF INFORMATION.

>> I THINK THERE'S A COUPLE THINGS.

I THINK, A, YOU NEVER QUITE IMAGINE THAT YOUR FRIEND COULD ACTUALLY BE THE ONE TO DO THIS, RIGHT?

WE THINK OF THIS, THIS IS A MONSTER, IT'S NOT MY FRIEND.

AND, SO, YOU MINIMIZE WARNING SIGNS.

YOU DON'T WANT TO OVERREACT.

YOU DON'T WANT TO SNITCH.

AND THEN ALSO OUR REACTION IS A PROBLEM BECAUSE WHEN A KID DOES REPORT, OFTENTIMES YOUR FRIEND IS EXPELLED OR THEY'RE CRIMINALLY CHARGED, I MEAN, THERE'S KIDS SERVING 20-YEAR PRISON SENTENCING FOR THREATENING A SCHOOL SHOOTING.

SO WE HAVE TO CHANGE THAT REACTION.

>> Eric: THERE'S NOTHING LIKE GOOD DATA TO INFORM A CONVERSATION GOING FORWARD.

SO YOU'VE LAID GREAT GROUNDWORK FOR US.

>> Cathy: THANK YOU FOR WRITING THE BOOK AS WELL.

>> Eric: WHAT'S THE NAME OF THE BOOK AGAIN?

>> "THE VIOLENCE PROJECT."

>> Eric: AMAZON, BOOKSTORES EVERYWHERE.

>> BOOKSTORES EVERYWHERE.

>> Eric: GOOD LUCK WITH THAT, ALL THE BEST.

>> Cathy: THANK YOU.

>> Eric: THANKS.

>> ERIC: IT'S MINNESOTA HISTORY TIME.

AND WE START WITH OUR QUESTION FROM LAST TIME.

LISTEN CLOSELY.

WE ASKED ABOUT SOMETHING THAT HAS TO DO WITH MAYO CLINIC IN ROCHESTER.

FOR MUCH OF THE LAST CENTURY, MAYO SAW MANY STAR ATHLETES FROM AROUND THE COUNTRY MAKE THE TRIP TO OLMSTED COUNTY FOR TREATMENTS AND SURGERIES.

WE ASKED ABOUT A BASEBALL GREAT WHO HAD SURGERY AT MAYO IN 1966 TO ADDRESS A SHOULDER PROBLEM.

WHILE THE SURGERY WAS DEEMED A SUCCESS, THIS PERSON WOULD RETIRE SHORTLY AFTERWARDS.

WE WANTED YOU TO NAME THIS STAR ATHLETE.

WHAT SPORTS SUPERSTAR HAD SURGERY AT MAYO IN JANUARY 1966?

WE HAD FUN WITH THIS QUESTION.

AND SO DID YOU.

WE HEARD FROM DOZENS OF CALLERS AND, FRANKLY, THE PRODUCERS HAD PLENTY OF WRONG GUESSES TO CHOOSE FROM.

TAKE A LISTEN.

>> ERIC: WE LOVE THAT STORY, ROBIN, AND WE'RE SURE THAT RADIO REPAIR HAPPENED AT SOME POINT.

BUT NOT IN JANUARY OF 1966.

AND NOT AFTER A SHOULDER SURGERY.

WHO GOT THIS ONE RIGHT?

AMONG THE CORRECT GUESSERS, GAIL OUT OF ST. PAUL.

>> ERIC: YES, IT WAS THE YANKEE SLUGGING GREAT MICKEY MANTLE WHO HAD MAYO SURGERY IN 1966.

THE MICK WAS KNOWN FOR HIS OFT-INJURED LEGS BUT HAD HURT HIS SHOULDER SO MUCH THAT HE COULDN'T PLAY THE OUTFIELD.

BY THE WAY, HE CLAIMED HIS SHOULDER INJURY HAPPENED WHILE PLAYING WITH HIS KIDS.

MANTLE RETIRED FROM BASEBALL IN 1968, AND AT THE TIME HE STOOD THIRD ON THE ALL-TIMER HOME RUN LIST WITH 536.

DO YOU HAVE A MINNESOTA HISTORY QUESTION YOU THINK WE SHOULD ASK?

LET US KNOW BY DIALING 651-229-1430.

OR SEND US AN EMAIL AT ALMANAC@TPT.ORG.

YOU CAN SEND COMMENTS ABOUT THIS WEEK'S SHOW TOO.

WE ALWAYS LOVE HEARING FROM YOU.

WE HAVE JUST ENOUGH TIME FOR SOME SHOW-ENDING MUSIC.

IT'S A GREAT CLIP FROM THE "ALMANAC" ARCHIVES.

THIS WEEK IN 1999 THE GREAT IRISH FOLK SINGER LIAM CLANCY STOPPED BY OUR STUDIOS.

HIS SON DONAL ACCOMPANIED HIM.

THE TWO PERFORMED A SONG THAT CLANCY WAS KNOWN FOR, "THE DUTCHMAN."

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

WE HOPE TO SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK.

GOOD NIGHT.

BE CAREFUL.

♪ THE DUTCHMAN'S NOT HE IND OF MAN WHO KEEPS HIS THUMB JAMMED IN THE DAM ♪ ♪ THAT HOLDS HIS DREAMS IN ♪ ♪ BUT THAT'S A SECRET THAT ONLY MARGARET KNOWS ♪ ♪ WHEN AMSTERDAM IS GOLDEN IN THE MORNING MARGARET BRINGS HIM BREAKFAST ♪ ♪ SHE BELIEVES HIM ♪ ♪ HE THINKS THE TULIPS BLOOM BENEATH THE SNOW ♪ ♪ HE'S AD AS HE CAN BE, BUT MARGARET ONLY SEES THAT SOMETIMES, SOMETIMES SHE SEES HER UNBORN CHILDREN IN HIS EYES ♪ ♪ LET US GO TO THE BANKS OF THE OCEAN ♪ ♪ WHERE THE WALLS RISE ABOVE THE SUIDER ZEE ♪ ♪ LONG AGO I USED TO BE A YOUNG MAN AND DEAR MARGARET REMEMBERS THAT FOR ME ♪ ♪ THE DUTCHMAN STILL WEARS WOODEN SHOES, HIS CAP AND COAT ARE PATCHED WITH LOVE ♪ ♪ THAT MARGARET SEWED THERE ♪ ♪ SOMETIMES HE THINKS HE'S STILL IN ROTTERDAM ♪ ♪ AND HE WATCHES THE TUGBOATS DOWN CANALS AND CALLS OUT TO THEM WHEN HE THINKS HE KNOWS THE CAPTAIN ♪ ♪ TILL MARGARET COMES TO TAKE HIM HOME AGAIN ♪ ♪ THROUGH UNFORGIVING STREETS THAT TRIP HIM ♪ >> "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

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