REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM >>LORENE: HELLO, I AM LORENE MILLS AND WELCOME TO REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

OUR GUEST TODAY IS FATHER JOHN DEAR, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>>JOHN: MY PLEASURE TO BE WITH YOU.

>>LORENE: I KNOW YOU SPENT SOME TIME IN SANTA FE, AND I FEEL SO LUCKY TO HAVE GOTTEN YOU ON THIS VISIT BECAUSE THERE IS SO MUCH GOING ON, I WANT TO TALK WITH YOU ABOUT.

YOU ARE A CATHOLIC PRIEST, AN ACTIVIST, AN AUTHOR, AND A CONVICT BECAUSE YOU HAVE BEEN ARRESTED 85 TIMES IN NON-VIOLENT PROTESTS AND DEMONSTRATIONS.

>>JOHN: THAT'S RIGHT.

>>LORENE: WELL, YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO TELL US MORE ABOUT THAT.

ALSO AT 9-11, DIDN'T YOU CO-ORDINATE ALL THE CHAPLAINS?

>>JOHN: YEAH, I HAD JUST STEPPED DOWN AS THE HEAD OF THE LARGEST PEACE GROUP IN THE WORLD, THE FELLOWSHIP OF RECONCILIATION, WHICH GANDHI AND DR. KING WERE A PART OF AND I WAS SUPPOSED TO BE HAVING BREAKFAST IN THE SECOND TOWER WITH MY PARENTS AND THEY CALLED AND WENT TO A DIFFERENT PLACE THE DAY BEFORE.

AND SO THEY LEFT TOWN AND I WENT DOWN TO VOLUNTEER AND BY CHANCE I MET THE RED CROSS AND SHE SAID, "WILL YOU RUN THE PROGRAM?"

I SAID, "OKAY."

AND THE NEXT THING YOU KNOW, I HAD 600 CHAPLAINS OF ALL RELIGIONS, MINISTERING TO 50,000 DIRECT RELATIVES, I'M TALKING SPOUSE, CHILD AND PARENT, FROM SEPTEMBER 11, AND I MYSELF COUNSELLED 1500 FAMILIES AND RESCUE WORKERS AND I WORKED ONE OR TWO DAYS A WEEK AT GROUND ZERO.

WHILE I WAS DOING THAT, I WAS ALSO COORDINATING THE MAIN MARCHES AGAINST THE BOMBING OF PEOPLE IN AFGHANISTAN IN TIMES SQUARE, THIS IS HOW I ENDED UP IN NEW MEXICO, THE NEW YORK TIMES DID A BIG PROFILE ABOUT ME AND I SAID, "WELL, JESUS SAID, LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AND LOVE YOUR ENEMIES, COMPASSION BOTH HOME AND ABROAD.

SO I WAS BEING NEIGHBORLY TO THE PEOPLE IN NEED.

AND I DON'T WANT PEOPLE IN AFGHANISTAN TO DIE, ESPECIALLY SINCE THEY NOTHING TO DO WITH SEPTEMBER 11.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>JOHN: CHURCH OFFICIALS HAD SO MANY COMPLAINTS ABOUT ME I WAS KICKED OUT OF NEW YORK AND CAME TO NEW MEXICO.

>>LORENE: AND WHAT BROUGHT YOU TO NEW MEXICO?

>>JOHN: THAT'S WHAT BROUGHT ME TO NEW MEXICO.

I MEAN WHO DOESN'T LIKE NEW MEXICO AND I HAD A CLOSE FRIEND HERE, A PRIEST FRIEND, WHO USED TO SAY, "WELL WHEN THEY FINALLY CATCH UP WITH YOU, COME TO NEW MEXICO CAUSE NO ONE ON THE EAST COAST WILL CARE IF YOU ARE IN NEW MEXICO."

BUT I FOUND OUT EVEN THAT WASN'T TRUE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I HAD A BUNCH OF PARISHES OUT IN THE NORTHEASTERN CORNER OF NEW MEXICO WHERE THE TOURISTS NEVER GO.

AND I STARTED A REGULAR VIGIL AT LOS ALAMOS CALLING FOR THE ABOLITION OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS AND NO PRIESTS HAD EVER DONE THAT BEFORE AND VERY QUICKLY I WAS IN A LOT OF HOT WATER WITH ARCHBISHOP SHEEHAN, MY OWN PARISHIONERS, REALLY THE WHOLE STATE.

IT WAS VERY EXCITING, AND I AM STILL IN HOT WATER, I HOPE TRYING TO CALL FOR THE ABOLITION OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS IN WAR.

>>LORENE: WELL, I MEAN THAT IS THE ULTIMATE VIOLENCE THAT WE WREAK UPON THE EARTH AND OUR NEIGHBORS.

>>JOHN: RIGHT.

YEAH.

>>LORENE: THERE IS NOTHING WORSE.

>>JOHN: RIGHT.

>>LORENE: SO YOU HAVE BEEN NOMINATED FOR THE NOBEL PEACE PRIZE BY ARCHBISHOP DESMOND TUTU.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT HE SAID ABOUT YOU, HE SAID, YOU, JOHN DEAR, ARE THE EMBODIMENT OF A PEACEMAKER.

HE BELIEVES THAT PEACE IS NOT SOMETHING STATIC BUT RATHER TO MAKE PEACE IS TO BE ENGAGED BODY, MIND, AND SPIRIT.

HE IS A MAN WHO HAS THE COURAGE OF HIS CONVICTIONS, AND HE SPEAKS OUT AND ACTS AGAINST WAR, THE MANUFACTURE OF WEAPONS AND ANY SITUATION WHERE A HUMAN BEING MIGHT BE AT RISK OF VIOLENCE.

>>JOHN: YES, HE WAS MY GREAT FRIEND, AND I WAS SO BLESSED TO KNOW HIM AND IT IS HARD FOR ME TO REMEMBER HOW I GOT TO KNOW HIM.

BUT WHEN YOU WORK FULL TIME TO END A WAR, YOU MEET EVERYBODY, BECAUSE THERE IS ONLY A FEW OF US WHO ARE DOING THAT, UNFORTUNATELY.

I MET HIM, I CORRESPONDED WITH HIM IN THE 80S AND THE 90S ON VARIOUS PEACE PROJECTS.

BUT HE WROTE A FORWARD TO ONE OF MY BOOKS 20 TO 25 YEARS AGO AND ASKED ME TO WRITE HIM EVERY WEEK.

>>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.

>>JOHN: HE CALLED ME HIS PEN PAL.

SO WHEN I WAS HERE IN NEW MEXICO, HE KNEW ALL OF WHAT I WAS DOING.

I INVITED HIM TO COME TO LOS ALAMOS AND IT WAS JUST A MATTER OF SCHEDULING.

HE WAS VERY SICK ON AND OFF WITH CANCER AND HE DIED LAST YEAR AS YOU KNOW, BUT A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, JUST BEFORE THE PANDEMIC, I MADE A PILGRIMAGE TO SOUTH AFRICA WITH SOME NEW MEXICO FRIENDS AND SPENT A DAY WITH HIM AND IT WAS JUST MAGICAL.

AND I BROUGHT HIM ONE OF THOSE GORGEOUS BLUE AND WHITE NEW MEXICO BLANKETS.

>>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.

>>JOHN: WHICH HE WOULD HAVE NEVER SEEN AND UNFORTUNATELY NEVER GOT TO COME HERE.

BUT I KNOW YOU WANT TO ASK ME ABOUT NON-VIOLENCE, BUT CAN I TELL YOU JUST A LITTLE BIT ABOUT MY TIME WITH TUTU?

>>LORENE: PLEASE.

>>JOHN: YOU WERE KIDDING ME ABOUT LOOKING YOUNG, HE JUST MADE FUN OF ME.

YOU KNOW, I KEEP THINKING YOU ARE AN OLD WISE GUY, BUT YOU ARE JUST A KID.

AND WHEN I WALKED INTO THE ROOM AND I AM IN MY MID-60S, HE GRABBED ME BY THE COLLAR, YOU KNOW HE IS A LITTLE TINY GUY, AND WE ARE VERY CLOSE FRIENDS BECAUSE WE EMAILED EVERY WEEK FOR 20 YEARS.

HE SAID, "JOHN, YOU AND I HAVE TO WORK FOR PEACE AND DISARMAMENT AND JUSTICE UNTIL THE DAY WE DIE.

NO HELLO, NO WELCOME, NO THAT WAS HIS MAIN MESSAGE TO ME.

I THOUGHT LIKE, WOW.

AND THAT'S MY MESSAGE TO EVERYBODY WHO IS LISTENING.

BUT I, BEING A SMART ALECK AND HE KNOWS ME AND HE WAS ONE TOO, AND WE GOT ON GREAT.

I HIT HIM, I SAID, OH COME ON ARCHBISHOP, HOW DO YOU DO THAT?

AND THIS IS WHEN YOU REMEMBER THESE MOMENTS WHEN WITH ALL THE GREATEST PEOPLE OF OUR TIME, THAT I SUDDENLY REMEMBER, HE IS A GREAT MAN.

HE GOES, "I CRY AND I LAUGH" AND BURST INTO TEARS AND FALLS INTO MY ARMS AND HE STARTS SOBBING.

HE GOES, "JOHN, IF THEY ONLY KNEW WE WERE DESTROYING THE PLANET AND DESTROYING EACH OTHER AND KILLING EACH OTHER THROUGH POVERTY AND WAR AND RACISM, WHEN WE ARE ALL MEANT TO LOVE ONE ANOTHER AND SISTERS AND BROTHERS IN THIS PARISH."

HE'S GOING ON AND ON.

HE SAYS, "I HAVE CRIED EVERY DAY SINCE I WAS FIVE."

>>LORENE: OH.

>>JOHN: AND THEN I LOOKED IT UP AND I KNEW HE WAS UNDER DEATH THREAT EVERY DAY SINCE HE WAS 12, INCLUDING TO THE END BECAUSE HE WAS CRITICIZING WHAT TERRIBLE THINGS WERE HAPPING IN SOUTH AFRICA.

>>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.

>>JOHN: BUT THEN HE SAID, "I ALSO LAUGH.

I HAVE LAUGHED EVERY DAY OF MY LIFE AND THAT HAS KEPT ME GOING IN THE SPIRIT OF JOY."

AND THEN HE GOES, "AND LOOK AT YOU," AND HE BURSTS OUT LAUGHING.

HE SAYS, "YOU ARE RIDICULOUS, I DON'T KNOW WHY ANYBODY TAKES YOU SERIOUSLY."

AND HE IS MAKING FUN OF ME.

IT WAS NOT ONLY FABULOUS, BUT IT WAS A TEACHING MOMENT FOR ME, BECAUSE AS JESUS SAYS IN THE SERMON ON THE MOUNT WHERE HE TEACHES US HOW TO WORK FOR PEACE AND LIVE THE LIFE OF NON-VIOLENCE.

AVOID THESE TWO EMOTIONS, AVOID ANGER AND FEAR BUT CULTIVATE GRIEF AND JOY.

AND NOBODY DOES THAT.

>>LORENE: AH, WOW.

>>JOHN: IT IS RIGHT THERE IN THE BEATITUDES.

BLESSED ARE THEY THAT MOURN AND I WAS GOING THROUGH THAT ON SEPTEMBER 11 AND BLESSED ARE YOU WHEN THEY PERSECUTE YOU FOR PEACE AND JUSTICE.

REJOICE!

OF COURSE, TUTU WOULD KNOW THAT AS GANDHI DID AND DR. KING AND DOROTHY DAY.

AND I AM SLOWLY LEARNING YOU KNOW THE LESSONS OF HOW TO BE A PEACEMAKER, BUT HE WAS GREAT, HE WAS GREAT IN EVERY WHICH WAY.

I HAVE BEEN SO BLESSED TO KNOW HIM AND SO MANY GREAT PEACEMAKERS.

AND THAT IS WHY I AM STILL SO PASSIONATE BECAUSE I WANT EVERYBODY IN NEW MEXICO AND THE WORLD TO DROP WHAT THEY ARE DOING AND BECOME A PEACEMAKER.

>>LORENE: WELL, YOU HAVE WRITTEN SO MUCH ABOUT THE BEATITUDES FIRST OF ALL, GIVE US YOUR WEBSITE AND THEN TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT THE BEATITUDES.

>>JOHN: SO WHEN THE PANDEMIC HIT, YOU KNOW, NORMALLY, I TRAVEL THE WORLD AND LECTURE ON PEACE AND JUSTICE ISSUES AND ORGANIZE DEMONSTRATIONS AND GRASSROOTS MOVEMENTS ALL OVER THE WORLD.

I HAVE BEEN DOING WORK FOR POPE FRANCIS OF THE VATICAN ON PEACE AND NON-VIOLENCE, IT HAS BEEN AN AMAZING JOURNEY.

BUT WHEN THE PANDEMIC HIT, ALL OF THAT SHUT DOWN LIKE FOR EVERYBODY.

SO I LAUNCHED A NEW NON-PROFIT ONLINE CENTER, WHICH I CALL THE BEATITUDE CENTER FOR THE NON-VIOLENT JESUS.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>JOHN: AND IF YOU WILL LOOK AT THE FINE PRINT IN IT, I SAY THAT JESUS IS THE CEO, I AM JUST THE DIRECTOR.

SO WHAT I AM DOING IS I AM OFFERING ZOOMS ON THE GREATEST VOICES FOR PEACE AND JUSTICE AND DISARMAMENT AND ENVIRONMENT AND RACIAL EQUALITY IN THE COUNTRY AND IN THE WORLD.

>>LORENE: AND THEY ARE AVAILABLE BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN ON YOUR WEBSITE.

>>JOHN: YEAH.

SO EVERY TWO WEEKS THERE IS A GREAT ZOOM.

I JUST HAD BILL MCKIBBEN, THE LEADING VOICE FOR CLIMATE AND JUSTICE AND NEXT MONTH MEDEA BENJAMIN, OR THIS MONTH WHO IS THE LEADING VOICE OF PEACE, CORNELL WEST WILL BE ON IN SEPTEMBER, MEDEA BENJAMIN AND SO FORTH AND SO ON.

I HAVE HAD JIM LAWSON MY FRIEND WHO IS ONE OF DR. KING'S GREAT FRIENDS, GANDHI'S GRANDSON.

A LOT OF THEM ARE AVAILABLE NOW ON OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL, "JOHN DEAR BEATITUDE CENTER."

ALSO, I HAVE MORE THAN A DOZEN FREE PODCASTS OF MY OWN LECTURES ON PEACE AND GANDHI AND KING AND JESUS AND THE BEATITUDES.

EVERYTHING YOU WAND TO KNOW ABOUT PEACE, LOVE AND NON-VIOLENCE AND THE POLITICAL IMPLICATIONS OF THAT.

>>LORENE: WELL, THERE IS A LOT OF BIG MONEY AGAINST, YOU KNOW, AGAINST TRYING... >>JOHN: YEAH, YEAH, NOBODY.

THERE IS NO MONEY FOR PEACE, LOVE AND NON-VIOLENCE, BUT THERE IS A LOT OF ETERNAL REWARDS, I CALL THEM PERKS.

THE CHURCH CALLS THEM BLESSINGS.

>>LORENE: SO I WAS... >>JOHN: SO THAT IS BEATITUDESCENTER.ORG IF YOU WANT TO LOOK THAT UP.

>>LORENE: I AM SURE THEY WILL.

SO I HEARD THE BILL MCKIBBEN PRESENTATION.

IT WAS STUNNING BECAUSE WHAT HE WAS SAYING IN EFFECT WAS THAT IT IS THE THIRD ACT AND PEOPLE ARE OLDER NOW AND THERE IS A NATURAL CONNECTION BETWEEN GRANDPARENTS AND GRANDKIDS AND TO WORK TOGETHER TO TRY TO FIGHT CLIMATE CHANGE AND OTHER ISSUES.

BUT HE SAID, I LOVE THIS, I WANT YOU TO COMMENT ON IT.

BILL MCKIBBEN JUST THIS WEEK SAID AND HE FOUNDED THE 350.ORG.

"THE SOLAR PANEL AND NON-VIOLENT SOCIAL MOVEMENT ARE THE TWO MOST IMPORTANT CREATIONS OF THE 20TH CENTURY."

>>JOHN: YEAH.

SO A FEW THOUGHTS.

WHY I AM TALKING ABOUT THE BEATITUDES IS FIRST OF ALL BECAUSE MAHATMA GANDHI WAS THE FIRST TO TALK OF NON-VIOLENCE FROM ANCIENT RELIGIONS AND SAY THE HOPE OF THE WORLD IS THROUGH THE WAY OF NON-VIOLENCE.

EVERYBODY DISARMING AND CREATING NON-VIOLENT STRUCTURES AND INSTITUTIONS SO EVERYBODY CAN HAVE THE FULLNESS OF LIFE AND JUSTICE AND PEACE, DECENT HOUSING, CLOTHING, HEALTHCARE, JOBS, EDUCATION AND SO FORTH, A NON-VIOLENT LIFE.

HE SAID, GANDHI SAID, THAT THE GREATEST TEACHINGS OF NON-VIOLENCE ARE THE SERMON ON THE MOUNT, MATTHEW 5, 6, 7.

SO GANDHI WHO IS HINDU READ FROM THE SERMON THE MOUNT EVERYDAY, MORNING AND EVERY EVENING FOR FORTY YEARS.

>>LORENE: OH, MY GOODNESS.

>>JOHN: AND HE IS NOT EVEN CHRISTIAN.

THAT IS WHY MARTIN LUTHER KING SAID THAT GANDHI IS THE GREATEST CHRISTIAN THAT EVER LIVED.

I HAVE BEEN TRAINED TO TEACH AND READ THE SERMON ON THE MOUNT FOR TWENTY YEARS NOW.

NOBODY IS DOING IT AND IF YOU DO THAT, YOU END UP LIKE GANDHI AND DR. KING.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>JOHN: BECAUSE IT IS LIKE HOW TO BE A HUMAN BEING.

WELL, EVERYTHING IS LAID OUT THERE AND THAT'S WHY I AM TALKING ABOUT THE BEATITUDES JUST AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SERMON ON THE MOUNT, BLESSED ARE THE PEACEMAKERS AND LOVE YOUR ENEMIES.

I WROTE A WHOLE BOOK ON IT CALLED, THEY WILL INHERIT THE EARTH , IT'S THE THIRD BEATITUDE, BLESSED ARE THE MEEK, THEY WILL INHERIT THE EARTH.

LONG AND SHORT OF IT IS THAT THOMAS MERTON SAY'S THE "BIBLICAL WORD FOR MEEK IS ACTIVE NON-VIOLENCE LIKE GANDHI AND DR.

KING."

>>LORENE: OH MY GOSH.

>>JOHN: OF COURSE, IT IS NOT PASSIVITY.

WHERE THOSE WHO ARE LIKE GANDHI AND DR. KING, THEY ARE TRULY BLESSED IF THEY ARE PEOPLE OF NON-VIOLENCE, THEY GET WHAT JESUS SAYS THEY ARE ONE WITH CREATION.

I HAD BEEN STUDYING THIS ALL OF MY LIFE AND THEN ONE DAY SITTING OUT ON THE MESA HERE, I WENT, "WHAT, WHY HAS NOBODY TOLD ME THAT NON-VIOLENCE IS CONNECTED WITH THE EARTH?"

>>LORENE: YES.

>>JOHN: BECAUSE WE HAVE TOTALLY REJECTED JESUS'S WAY OF NON-VIOLENCE AND SO HUMANITY IS NO LONGER ONE WITH THE EARTH.

IT IS BLESSED ARE THE VIOLENT THEY SHALL NOT INHERIT THE EARTH.

AND SO YOU WILL END UP WITH CATASTROPHIC CLIMATE CHANGE, NUCLEAR WARS, AND SO FORTH.

SO I AM INVITING ALL THESE GREAT PEOPLE TO SPEAK ABOUT NON-VIOLENCE.

BILL MCKIBBEN IS AN OLD FRIEND OF MINE AND NOTICE HE KNOWS EVERYTHING ABOUT NON-VIOLENCE.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>JOHN: SO IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE A PERSON OF NON-VIOLENCE, YOU ARE AGAINST WAR AND KILLING AND GUNS AND RACISM AND NUCLEAR WEAPONS, BUT VIOLENCE AGAINST MOTHER EARTH.

SO HE BRILLIANTLY MAKES THAT QUOTE AS HE DID ON THE ZOOM LAST WEEK, SAYING, "OKAY, NOW OUR VIOLENCE HAS REACHED SUCH A POINT, TWO WAYS WE ARE ON THE BRINK OF DESTROYING THE PLANET" AND I THINK IT IS VERY SERIOUS.

NUCLEAR WEAPONS AND CATASTROPHIC CLIMATE CHANGE AND BILL SAYS, "THE INVENTION OF THE SOLAR PANELS TO STOP THE FOSSIL FUELS IN OIL AND GAS IS GOING TO MEAN WE CAN SAVE MOTHER EARTH AND IF WE ALSO DISMANTLE THE NUCLEAR WEAPONS AND CREATE A NEW NON-VIOLENT WORLD, WE WILL SAVE THE PLANET."

SO HE IS RIGHT.

>>LORENE: AND SO ARE YOU.

WE ARE SPEAKING TODAY WITH FATHER JOHN DEAR, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

HOW COULD NON-VIOLENCE BE NEW?

>>JOHN: WELL THAT IS WHAT'S SO EXCITING.

GANDHI PROVED THAT JESUS WAS RIGHT, MARTIN LUTHER KING SAID, GANDHI WAS THE FIRST PERSON, THIS IS VERY HARD TO BELIEVE, ACCEPT AND HEAR, THE FIRST PERSON TO APPLY THE ETHIC OF NON-VIOLENCE IN JESUS'S SERMON ON THE MOUNT, WHICH IS A COMPLETELY ORIGINAL THING.

NOBODY SAID THESE KIND OF WORDS BEFORE IN ANY RECORDED HISTORY, NO ONE EVER SAID LOVE YOUR ENEMIES, THOSE WORDS WERE NEVER UTTERED IN HISTORY.

SO THEY ARE ORIGINALS.

SOMETHING WAS UNIQUE ABOUT JESUS OF NAZARETH, I AM SAYING HE WAS THE EPITOME OF NON-VIOLENCE AND GANDHI SAYS, THE CHRISTIANS REJECTED IT.

WE WENT ALONG WITH THE ROMAN EMPIRE, AND WE SAID, FORGET LOVE YOUR ENEMIES LET'S HAVE THE JUST WAR THEORY.

>>LORENE: CRUSADES.

>>JOHN: CRUSADES, BOMB AND KILL PEOPLE, MAN, YOU CAN KILL WOMEN, WHITE PEOPLE, YOU CAN KILL NON-WHITE PEOPLE.

HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH JESUS, GANDHI COMES BACK, BUT WE HAVE A NICE PERSONAL EPIC WITH GOD.

GANDHI SAID, THAT'S NOT WHAT THE GUY SAID AT ALL.

IT IS TOTAL NON-VIOLENCE IN YOUR PERSONAL LIFE, METICULOUS NON-VIOLENCE IN EVERY RELATIONSHIP ON EARTH, YOU ARE TOTALLY NON-VIOLENT TOWARD EVERY HUMAN BEING FROM NOW ON AND THE CREATURES AND MOTHER EARTH.

BUT IF YOU ORGANIZE THROUGH NON-VIOLENT MEANS AS A POLITICAL SOCIAL METHODOLOGY OF SOCIAL CHANGE AND OF TYRANNY AND JUSTICE OR INJUSTICE?

IT ALWAYS WORKS.

AND NO ONE HAD REALLY SAID THAT NOT EVEN ST. FRANCIS EVEN THOUGH CLEARLY WAS A KIND OF A GANDHIAN GRASSROOTS LEADER THAT SPARKED THE MOVEMENT OF NON-VIOLENCE.

GANDHI CALLED HIMSELF A SCIENTIST.

SO WHAT BILL IS TALKING ABOUT IS ONCE GANDHI SAID, OKAY, ALL OF INDIA, 300 MILLION PEOPLE, ARE GOING TO BE TOTALLY NON-VIOLENT BUT WE ARE GOING TO NON-COOPERATE WITH BRITISH RULE.

THE BRITISH EMPIRE WAS DONE, AND IT WAS JUST A MATTER OF TIME BECAUSE AS GANDHI SAID, 300,000 BRITISH CAN'T CONTROL 300 MILLION NON-VIOLENT INDIANS.

SO IT IS A NON-VIOLENT PEOPLE POWERED MOVEMENT.

NOW WE KNOW THAT THE ONLY WAY POSITIVE SOCIAL CHANGE HAPPENS IS BOTTOM UP, PEOPLE POWERED GRASSROOTS MOVEMENTS FOR POSITIVE SOCIAL CHANGE THAT ARE TOTALLY NON-VIOLENT.

SO GANDHI LEADS TO MARTIN LUTHER KING WHO STUDIES GANDHI AND APPLIES IT IN THE MONTGOMERY BOYCOTT AND THE BIRMINGHAM CAMPAIGN IN SELMA AND BRINGS DOWN SEGREGATION THROUGH NON-VIOLENT MEANS AND THROUGH KING, THE WHOLE WORLD CHANGES.

THAT LEAD TO THE WOMEN'S MOVEMENT, THE ENVIRONMENTAL MOVEMENT, LGBT, AND THERE HAVE BEEN 85 NON-VIOLENT REVOLUTIONS AND MOVEMENTS OF TRANSFORMATION IN THE LAST 50 YEARS, DID YOU KNOW THAT, LORENE?

>>LORENE: NO.

>>JOHN: TOTALLY NON-VIOLENT.

NOT ONLY THAT, IN THE LAST 15 YEARS IT IS SO EXCITING, THIS IS WHAT BILL IS GETTING AT.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>JOHN: GANDHI DID THIS AND JESUS DID THIS WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE, BUT 15 YEARS AGO, ONE OF THE LEADING INTELLECTUALS ON THE PLANET BEING, ERICA CHENOWETH FROM COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY AND NOW AT HARVARD, WHO SPEAKS TO THE STATE DEPARTMENT AND THE UN ALL THE TIME, SHE GOT A BIG TEAM TOGETHER.

THEY STUDIED EVERY WAR AND VIOLENT REVOLUTION FROM 1900 TO 2006, JUST MATH, EVERY WAR ON THE PLANET WHEREVER NON-VIOLENCE WAS USED, IT LED TO A NON-VIOLENT DEMOCRACY.

WE KNOW IT WORKS NOW AND WE KNOW THAT VIOLENCE DOESN'T WORK TO CHANGE.

VIOLENCE AS A RESPONSE TO VIOLENCE ALWAYS LEADS TO FURTHER VIOLENCE.

SO GANDHI AND KING, WELL WHAT BILL IS SAYING FIRST OF ALL, NOW WE KNOW THE WAY FORWARD AS WE ALL HAVE TO JOIN THE GRASSROOTS GLOBAL MOVEMENT OF NON-VIOLENCE.

WHAT WE NEED NOW IS A MOVEMENT THE LIKES OF WHICH THE WORLD HAS NEVER SEEN BEFORE, WHERE EVERYONE ON THE PLANET STANDS UP AND SAYS, NO MORE NUCLEAR WEAPONS, NO MORE FOSSIL FUELS, NO MORE DESTROYING THE EARTH, NO MORE WAR, NO MORE STARVATION, NO MORE RACISM, NO MORE KILLINGS.

ALL THAT TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS GOING INTO VIOLENCE AND GREED AND CORPORATE GREED AND DESTRUCTION NEEDS TO GO INTO PRO-HUMAN JUSTICE.

EVERYBODY HAS THE MEANS TO LIFE AND THERE WILL BE INFINITE MONEY LEFT OVER AND I'LL END, I PROMISE, SO THAT WE CAN SET UP NON-VIOLENT INSTITUTIONS.

SO EVERY CHILD ON THE PLANET IS TRAINED LIKE GANDHI IN THE METHODOLOGY OF NON-VIOLENT CONFLICT RESOLUTIONS, SO THAT EVERY HUMAN BEING THAT GROWS UP TO BE NON-VIOLENT AND THE WORLD, NOT AS A UTOPIA, KNOWS HOW TO DEAL WITH CONFLICT NON-VIOLENTLY.

THIS IS ALL DOABLE, BUT IT IS MISSING THE WILL AND THAT IS WHY BILL IS TALKING ABOUT MOVEMENTS AND SOLAR PANELS AND HE IS RIGHT AND THAT IS WHY YOU DON'T HEAR ME TALKING ABOUT THE CHURCH FOR EXAMPLE.

AND EVEN WHEN I AM AT THE VATICAN, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE CHURCH, I AM TRYING TO GET POPE FRANCIS AND EVERYBODY TO SUPPORT THE BOTTOM OF GRASSROOTS MOVEMENTS THROUGH PEOPLE POWER METHODOLOGY OF GANDHIAN COMMUNITY THROUGH NON-VIOLENCE TO STOP THIS DESTRUCTION AND TO REALLY MAKE A NEW NON-VIOLENT WORLD.

IT IS OUR ONLY HOPE.

>>LORENE: AND MAY I QUOTE THE BIBLE, "A CHILD SHALL LEAD THEM."

GRETA THUNBERG.

>>JOHN: OH, GRETA.

>>LORENE: AND THE STRIKE.

>>JOHN: YES, >>LORENE: THIS WAS STUDENTS ON STRIKE, TOTALLY NON-VIOLENT.

>>JOHN: YOU KNOW, PEOPLE SAY TO ME ALL DAY LONG, JOHN, THIS WILL NEVER WORK.

IN FACT, IT'S THE ONLY THING THAT DOES WORK - WAR AND CORPORATE GREED AND ALLOWING PEOPLE TO GET AWAY LITERALLY WITH MURDER AND DESTRUCTION OF THE PLANET IS AGAINST OUR OWN NATURE AND RIGHTS AND DIGNITY AND JUSTICE AND WHAT ABOUT LOVE THAT TUTU SAID SISTERS AND BROTHERS.

BUT IN FACT, THERE ARE ALL THESE MOVEMENTS HAPPENING AROUND THE WORLD.

LOOK AT WHAT YOUNG GRETA THUNBERG DID, SHE IS SO ELOQUENT, YOU COULD ARGUE SHE INSPIRED TEN MILLION STUDENTS TO QUIT SCHOOL AND DEMAND CLIMATE JUSTICE, THAT'S THE LARGEST MASS MOVEMENT IN HISTORY.

THE BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT HAS HAD, I THINK, 27 MILLION PARTICIPANTS, ERICA STONER, ERICA CHENOWITH, HAS STUDIED THE STATISTICS AND IT WAS 99.99 PERCENT TOTALLY NON-VIOLENT, IT IS ALSO WAY MORE POWERFUL THAN THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT.

LOOK AT THE PARKLAND KIDS WHAT THEY DID AGAINST THE PARKLAND MASSACRE, THEY INSPIRED A NEW GRASSROOTS MOVEMENT, BUT WE ARE SEEING WOMEN'S MOVEMENTS, GLOBAL ENVIRONMENTAL MOVEMENT, LGBT MOVEMENT, BUT WE NEED A STRONGER ANTI-WAR MOVEMENT AND AN ANTI-NUCLEAR MOVEMENT.

BY THAT I MEAN I CALL UPON EVERYONE EVERYWHERE TO DEMAND NEGOTIATIONS AND JUSTICE AND DIPLOMACY FOR AN END TO THE WAR IN UKRAINE AND ALL THE WARS AND FOR THE DISMANTLING OF ALL NUCLEAR WEAPONS SO THAT WE CAN TAKE THAT TRILLION DOLLARS AND PUT IT INTO PRO-HUMAN NEEDS.

WE ARE HEADED TOWARD GLOBAL DESTRUCTION AND IT IS GOING TO TAKE ALL OF US, LIKE GRETA IS SHOWING US, TO STAND UP AND SPEAK OUT.

IT IS NOT BRAIN SURGERY, BUT IT MEANS GETTING OFF THE COUCH AND TAKING TO THE STREETS.

>>LORENE: YES.

>>JOHN: AND SPEAKING OUT AND CALLING YOUR CONGRESSMAN.

>>LORENE: DIDN'T TIM DECHRISTOPHER SAY "TO BE AN ACTIVIST, YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO GET OUT OF THE CHAIR."

>>JOHN: DID TIM SAY THAT, THAT'S GREAT.

THEN YOU END UP IN JAIL LIKE TIM AND I BUT THAT'S OKAY, LIKE GANDHI AND JESUS AND DR. KING YOU ARE IN GOOD COMPANY.

ACTUALLY, YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO TO JAIL TO WORK FOR CHANGE IN THE WORLD BUT IF PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED, THEY CAN WRITE ME.

WHAT WE NEED IS EVERYBODY TO ENGAGE IN EVERY NON-VIOLENT, PUBLIC MEANS POSSIBLE FOR POSITIVE SOCIAL CHANGE.

SO WRITING AND LOBBYING YOUR POLITICIAN, SPEAKING OUT, TEACHING, ALL THE CHURCHES SHOULD BE TOTALLY AGAINST WAR, NUCLEAR WEAPONS, GUN VIOLENCE AND RACISM AND POVERTY.

THAT SHOULD BE THEIR MAIN MESSAGE BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT JESUS'S MESSAGES THAT I STUDIED WERE.

AND TEACHING EVERYBODY NON-VIOLENCE, ALL THE RELIGIONS SHOULD BE BREAKING NEW GROUND ON A SPIRITUALITY, A THEOLOGY OF NON-VIOLENCE, THAT GOD IS NON-VIOLENT TO BE HUMAN IS TO BE NON-VIOLENT, THAT A FUTURE IS TO BE IS A FUTURE OF NON-VIOLENCE.

I WILL TELL YOU ONE OTHER THING AND I REMEMBER BEING IN THIS BUILDING WITH GOVERNOR RICHARDSON TWENTY YEARS AGO AND LECTURING HIM LIKE I AM YOU.

AND I SAID, "WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF NEW MEXICO, BILL?

IT'S A QUESTION FOR YOUR VIEWERS.

WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF NEW MEXICO?

THE FUTURE OF NEW MEXICO IS A NEW NON-VIOLENT NEW MEXICO, IT IS A LAND OF PEACE, WHICH MEANS IT IS NOT THE BIRTHPLACE OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS, IT IS GOING TO BE THE PLACE WHERE NUCLEAR WEAPONS WERE DISMANTLED PERMANENTLY, WHERE WE GOT RID OF OUR GUNS, WHERE WE REALLY EMBODIED THE INDIGENOUS AND CHRISTIAN WAY OF LOVE FOR ONE ANOTHER, JUSTICE AND CARE FOR ONE ANOTHER AND FOR MOTHER EARTH.

HE LOOKED AT ME LIKE I WAS NUTS.

BUT THAT IS OUR FUTURE, OUR FUTURE IS NOT GREED AND WAR AND THE OIL COMPANIES AND GAS COMPANIES OWNING OUR POLITICIANS.

THE FUTURE IS PRO-HUMAN NEW NON-VIOLENT NEW MEXICO AND A NEW NON-VIOLENT NORTH AMERICA AND A NEW NON-VIOLENT WORLD.

THAT'S I THINK THE SPIRITUAL VISION OF PEACE THAT WE ALL WANT TO CLAIM AND RECLAIM AND REIMAGINE AND REINVISION AND PURSUE FOR THE REST OF OUR LIVES.

>>LORENE: BUT WE DO NEED LEADERSHIP AND MENTORS.

>>JOHN: RIGHT.

>>LORENE: AND SO I LOVE YOUR BOOKS AND I WOULD LIKE TO SHOW ONE OF YOUR OTHER BOOKS, IF WOULD, FOR THE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO KNOW MORE.

>>JOHN: SURE, YOU KNOW WHAT, I USE THAT LOADED WORD LEADERSHIP, I THINK WHAT WE ARE SEEING NOW IS A LACK OF LEADERSHIP.

>>LORENE: YES, ABSOLUTELY.

>>JOHN: IN THE WHOLE COUNTRY AND EVERYWHERE.

I AM AMAZED, AND I THINK POPE FRANCIS HAS STOOD UP AND BEEN A REAL LEADER AND PROPHET FOR THE POOR AND FOR MERCY AND JUSTICE, BUT WE NEED A NEW GENERATION TO RISE UP AND SPEAK OUT, WE NEED PROPHETIC LEADERSHIP.

FOR ME, A LOT OF MY WORK HAS BEEN TO SPEAK PUBLICLY AND TO WRITE AND TO ORGANIZE.

MY LATEST BOOK IS CALLED PRAISE BE PEACE, PSALMS OF PEACE AND NON-VIOLENCE IN A TIME OF WAR AND CLIMATE CHANGE .

I AM ARGUING THERE THAT THE PSALMS, THE ANCIENT JEWISH HYMNS ARE REALLY HELPFUL IF YOU THINK OF THEM.

IF YOU REALLY STUDY THE KEY ONES AS CALLS TO DISMANTLE YOUR WEAPONS SAYING THAT GOD IS A GOD OF PEACE.

>>LORENE: TURN YOUR WEAPONS INTO PLOWSHARES.

>>JOHN: YEAH AND TO CELEBRATE CREATION AS A WAY TO WORSHIP GOD.

WELL, WE ARE NOT DOING THAT, BUT WE CAN.

IN MY BOOK, THEY WILL INHERIT THE EARTH, MY RECENT BOOK ON THOMAS MERTON, WHO WAS A GREAT TEACHER, PEACE AND THE OTHER RECENT BOOK IS CALLED, THOMAS BURTON, PEACEMAKER .

ANOTHER RECENT BOOK IS THE QUESTIONS OF JESUS , WHERE I OUTLINE, JESUS ASKS 350 QUESTIONS IN THE FOUR GOSPELS AND HE ONLY ANSWERS TWO.

SO THEY ARE JUST HANGING OUT THERE.

>>LORENE: AND WE HAVE MORE QUESTIONS, TOO, BUT WE HAVE, ALAS, RUN OUT OF TIME.

>>JOHN: I JUST STARTED.

>>LORENE: I KNOW, I KNOW, I AM SO GRATEFUL TO YOU AND YOUR ENTHUSIASM AND YOUR HEART FOR THIS IMPORTANT NON-VIOLENT, PEACE ON EARTH WORK, AND I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE YOU COME BACK ANOTHER TIME.

MEANWHILE I CAN DO A LITTLE LIGHT READING.

>>JOHN: THERE YOU GO.

>>LORENE: OUR GUEST TODAY IS FATHER JOHN DEAR, NON-VIOLENT, ACTIVIST.

>>JOHN: A NON-VIOLENT ACTIVIST.

>>LORENE: YEAH, I KNOW, I KNOW, FORGIVE ME.

NON-VIOLENT ACTIVIST AND CATHOLIC PRIEST AND A GREAT LEADER.

YOU ARE CALLING UP FOR LEADERSHIP AND I THINK YOU QUALIFY.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

AND I AM LORENE MILLS AND I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU, OUR AUDIENCE, FOR BEING WITH US TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM