♪ >> WELCOME BACK.

OUR OTR GUEST IS A SENIOR DEMOCRATIC MEMBER.

HOUSE BUDGET COMMITTEE, TYRONE CARTER.

OUR LEAD STORY, A STALEMATE ON HOW TO SPEND FEDERAL COVID AND MIKE SHIRKEY IS IN TROUBLE.

BILL BALLENGER SIT IN WITH US AS WE GO AHEAD THE INSIDE OUT ON THE RECORD.

>> PRODUCTION OF OFF THE RECORD IS MADE POTSIBILITY BY THE FOLLOWING: BUSINESS LEADERS FROM MICHIGAN HAS A STRATEGIC PLAN TO MAKE MICHIGAN A TOP 10 STATE IN THE NATION FOR JOBS, PERSONAL INCOME AND A HEALTHY ECONOMY.

LEARN MORE AT MITCHGANSROADTOTOPTEN.COM.

>> THANK YOU FOR TAKING TIME OUT OF YOUR BUSINESS SCHEDULE TO JOIN US ON THE RECORD.

WE SAY THIS EVERY WEEK, BUT IT'S TRUE EVERY WEEK.

LOTS OF STUFF GOING ON.

LET'S SAY GOOD MORNING TO OUR PANELISTS.

CHECKEY AND RILEY AND BILL BALLENGER.

HOW ARE YOU ALL DOING?

>> WELL.

>> LET'S SEE IF WE CAN CHANGE THAT.

LET'S START OFF WITH YOU RILEY.

IS IT FAIR TO CALL THIS AT THAT STALEMATE WITH THE COVID SPENDING WITH THE GOVERNOR IN ONE CORNER AND THE REPUBLICANS IN ANOTHER?

>> I THINK IT WAS, AND OBVIOUSLY UNTIL SOMETHING HAPPENS IT WILL BE, BUT I SEE THINK WE PROBABLY WILL SEE MOVEMENT ON THIS SOON.

THE POLITICAL PRESSURE HERE IS SO HIGH.

I MEAN IT'S COVID IS, IT'S VACCINES.

THIS IS THE STUFF PEOPLE ARE WAKING UP EVERY DAY AND THINKING ABOUT, TALKING ABOUT BEFORE THEY GO TO BED.

THEY NEED TO GET THIS DONE.

I AM SAY FROM WHAT WE ARE SEEING IN THE G.O.P., WHICH I KNOW WE WILL TALK ABOUT LATER IN THIS SHOW, YOU KNOW, THEY LOST A LOT OF THEIR LEVERAGE HERE SO I DON'T RECALL SEE GOVERNOR WHITMER GIVING A LOT ON THIS.

>> CHEYKIN, WHAT'S YOUR TAKE ON THIS?

>> I THINK THIS IS PROBABLY, ESPECIALLY GOING IN TO THE BUDGET COMING UP, THIS IS REPUBLICANS STILL REALLY TRYING TO HOLD ON TO SOME SEMBLANCE OF POWER AS IT CONTINUES TO WHITTLE DOWN IN A LOT OF WAYS, YOU KNOW I THINK THEY ARE FINDING TRYING TO GET THE GOVERNOR TO RELINK WISH SOME OF OUR POWER, NOT JUST HERSELF BUT ALL FUTURE GOVERNS GOING FORWARD IS A TACTIC THAT'S PROBABLY NOT GOING WORK.

THAT'S PROBABLY WHY THE SENATE HAS PROBABLY TAKEN A LOT OF PROVISIONS OUT OF THEIR PROPOSALS FOR SPENDING, BUT I THINK WHAT THEY WILL FIND IS WHEN PEOPLE REALIZE THIS IS MONEY THAT REPUBLICANS ARE TRYING TO LEAVE ON THE TABLE FOR THINGS LIKE VACCINE DISTRIBUTIONS AND THE ECONOMY, THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BE HAPPY ABOUT IT.

>> MERIT BALLENGER, THE REASONS THE REPUBLICANS SAY THEY WANT TO LEAVE THIS STUFF ON THE TABLE BILL, BECAUSE THEY WANT TO HAVE ACCOUNTABILITY.

THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE TAXPAYERS ARE GETTING THEIR MONEY'S WORTH AND NOT JUST WRITING A BLANKCHETTE CHECK.

THE GOVERNOR SAYS WE HAVE $5 BILLION, IF WE DON'T SPEND IT, SOMEBODY ELSE WILL.

WHO IS RIGHT IN THIS ARCT.

>> THEY ARE BOTH RIGHT AND THE ISSUE IS THE POLITICS.

THE LEGISLATURE SHOULD NAB STRONGER POSITION THAN IT IS.

AFTER ALL, THE LEGISLATURE HAS THE POWER OF THE PURSE.

THE GOVERNOR CANNOT APPROPRIATE THIS MONEY BY HERSELF.

>> THE LEGISLATURE HAS TO DO IT.

THE PROBLEM IS, AS CHEYNA HAS INDICATED AND RILEY, AS WELL, THEY HAVE THE -- THE REPUBLICAN MAJORITY IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE HAVE FRITERRED AWAY A LOT OF THEIR ARGUMENT AND MORAL HIGH GROUND ON THE THINGS THEY SAY ARE IMPORTANT.

AND I THINK WHAT THEY ARE SAYING IS IMPORTANT THERE SHOULD BE BALANCE.

THERE SHOULD BE ACCOUNT ABILITY BY THE GOVERNOR AND BY THE SPENDERS, THE LEGISLATURE ON WHAT HAPPENS TO THIS MONEY.

BUT THE PROBLEM IS, THEY HAVE MADE SO MANY MISTAKES INCLUDING -- AND I KNOW YOU ARE GOING TO TALK ABOUT IT -- THE VERBAL MISSTEP, SHALL WE CALL THEM BY THE SENATE MAJORITY LEADER THAT THEY ARE JUST WEAKENING THEIR POSITION DAY BY DAY.

>> HOW DOES THAT WEAKEN THEIR POSITION.

>> THEY JUST ARE NOT GOING TO GET THE SUPPORT IN THE NEWS MEDIA, THE GENERAL ELECTORATE, THE PUBLIC, FOR ANYTHING THEY ARGUE, EVEN IF IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ISSUES THAT THEY ARE ARGUING ON BECAUSE THE THINGS THEY SAY AND THAT THEY SOUND LIKE IF THEY ARE WEAK AND BOBBLEY AND THEY LOOK NEGATIVE AND THEY LOOK DANGEROUS AND UNLIKABLE, THE PUBLIC AND THE ELECTORATE AND NEWS MEDIA ARE NOT GOING TO SUPPORT THEIR POSITION.

THEY ARE GOING TO BE SYMPATHETIC WITH ANYTHING THE GOVERNOR WANTS.

RIGHT NOW, SHE IS SAYING, SENDS ME THE MONEY.

ALL OF IT.

ALL 5 AND A HALF BILLION, AND LET'S NOT NITPICK OVER ALL OF THESE LITTLE SNARKEY DETAILS YOU PEOPLE KEEP BRINGING UP.

>> SO AT THE CENTER OF THIS, AS ALL OF YOU HAVE INDICATED IS SENATOR MIKE SHIRKEY, THE SENATE REPUBLICAN LEADER.

HERE IS WHAT THAT STORY WAS ALL ABOUT THIS WEEK.

>> TO THE, WITH A FIRESTORM OF CRITICISM FLOWING AROUND HIM, MR. SHIRKEY SOUGHT DEVINE GUIDANCE.

WE NEED YOUR GREATS AND HOLY SPIRIT IN OUR LIVES MORE THAN EVER.

THAT'S EVERYBODY INCLUDING AN ESPECIALLY ME.

BUT SOMETIMES WE GET OFFTRACK.

>> THE SENATOR ENDS HIS CHAT WITH THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR BUT DECIDES TO COME BACK FOR MORE REMARKS CAPTURED ON A HOT MIC.

NO EXCHANGE, HE SAYS THE WORD "HOAX DID NOT APPLY TO THE RIOT AT THE CAPITOL, BUT HE SAID HE STOOD BY HIS OTHER COMMENTS WHICH INCLUDED TALKING ABOUT A FIST FIGHT WITH GOVERNOR WHITMER ON THE CAPITOL LAWN AND, QUOTE, SPANKING HER, ON THE STATE BUDGET.

AFTERWARDS, THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR LABELED IT HIS SCALD APOLOGY THAT WAS NOT HEART FELT WITHOUT HUMANITY AND UNDERSTANDING.

FOR HER PART, GOVERNOR WHITMER WAS BUYING IF SHE IS BUYING HIS COMMENTS NOW ABOUT THE HOAX.

THE GOVERNOR WOULDN'T COMMENT.

>> I AM INTERESTED IN ENGAGING WITH SOMEONE WHO SHOULD BE HELPING LEAD THROUGH THIS MOMENT WHO WANTS, YOU KNOW, TO MAKE VIOLENT COMMENTS ABOUT ME PERSONALLY.

I AM GOING TO STAY FOCUSED ON MY JOB WHEN THE LEADERSHIP IN THE LEGISLATURE IS READY TO BE LEADERS, THEY WILL FIND A WILLING PARTNER IN ME.

>> THE GOVERNOR SAYS SHE HAS BEEN EXTENDED THE OLIVE BRANCH TO THE REPUBLICANS TO WORK ON THE SPENDING ISSUE.

SHE WAS ASKED IF SHE WAS WILLING TO FORGIVE THE SENATOR FOR HIS REMARKS AIMED AT HERE?

.

>> WHAT?

TIM,INGLY PERSON AGAINST WHO WHOM THE VIOLENCE WAS DIRECTED SHOULD REACH OUT TO THE PERSON THAT IS PROPOSING THAT VIOLENCE?

WHAT?

TIM, I AM TOO BUSINESS TO GET CAUGHT UP IN ANY OF THAT.

>> MR. SHIRKEY SAYS HE WANTS TO MEET IN PERSON TO DISCUSS THESE ISSUES.

THE GOVERNOR SAYS THE ZOOM MEETINGS ARE WORKING AND SHE LEAVES IT AT THAT.

>> THESSA GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO KEEPTHEMS SAFE FROM COVID.

LOCKING EVERYONE IN A ROOM WOULD BE INAD VIDESIBLE FOR A LOT OF REASONS.

>> RILEY, THE SENATOR, IS HE IN TROUBLE WITH HIS OWN CAUCUS?

>> THAT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION I'M NOT SURE.

THAT COULD BE A GOOD LITMUS TEST FOR WHAT IS HAPPENING GOING FORWARD.

FRET FEDERAL LEVEL TO THE STATE LEVEL IN THE PARTY THE LAST WEEKEND IS IT WILL BE AN INTERESTING MARKER WHETHER THEY CAN COME TOGETHER IN THE FUTURE THE POLITICAL HEAT HAS BEEN RISING FOR MONTHS AND MONTHS AND MONTHS SOMETHING NEEDS TO BREAK.

I THINK THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SPEAKING THOSE WORDS PROBABLY ARE THE ONES WHO SHOULD COME FORWARD AND SAY THAT, BUT, YOU KNOW, IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE THE WAY PEOPLE REACT TO THAT, I GUESS.

>> BILL, THE INTERESTING THING HERE IS THAT THE GENERAL PUBLIC MIGHT NOT GIVE TWO HOOTS ABOUT THIS, BUT THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY IS WATCHING THIS AND WATCHING THIS VERY CLOSELY.

I HAD A SOURCE TELL ME YESTERDAY SOME BUSINESSES ARE UPSET WITH MR. SHIRKEY'S CONDUCT AND HIS REMARKS AND ARE CLOSING THEIR CHECKBOOKS FOR HIM.

ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT IF YOU ARE A REPUBLICAN STATE SENATOR.

>> I THINK YOU SHOULD BE VERY UPSET BLUE CROSS BLUE SHIELD SAID THEY MIGHT NOT HAVE COME TO HIS FUNDRAISER.

>> LOOSE LIPS SINK SHIPS.

HE HAS TO PUT A SOCK IN IT WE CAN'T IF YOU ARE THE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS, THEY HAD HIS BACK SO FAR AND HIS BEING THE MAJORITY OF THE LEADER GOING FORWARD.

HOW MUCH MORE CAN THEY TAKE?

A LOT IS DUE TO TECHNOLOGY AND SOCIAL IMMEDIATE 8 POLITICIANS BEEN MAKING STUPID REMARKS OFF CAMERA, OUT OF SIGHT, TO CONESTIMATE WENT FOR YEARS AND DECADES.

IT'S NEVER BEEN PICKED UP ON AN IPHONE AND SENT ALL OVER THE WORLD.

NOW, IT IS.

AND MIKE SHIRKEY HAS TO REALIZE THAT.

HE HAS BEEN BURNED SEVERAL TIMES ON THIS MATTER AND THEN HE MAKES THINGS WORSE BY GOING RIGHT UP TO GARLAND GILCHRIST AND SAYING WHAT HE SAID.

SO, LOOK.

YOU AND I REMEMBER TIM BACK IN 1977.

BILL FITZGERALD WAS THE SENATE DEMOCRATIC LEADER.

AND AT THAT TIME, THEY WERE IN THE MAJORITY.

AND HE LITERALLY MADE HIMSELF SO UNPOPULAR IN HIS CAUCUS, THEY FIRED HIM AND THEY REPLACED HIM WITH BILL FOUTS.

THAT'S THE LAST TIME IT HAPPENED IN THE MIDDLE OF A LEADERSHIP TENURE, BUT IT COULD HAPPEN AGAIN IF IT KEEPS GOING.

>> MS. ROTH, IS IT SIGNIFICANT THAT MR. SHIRKEY FOUND IT NETS TO SAY THAT I WILL NOT RESIGN?

THAT SAYS TWO THINGS, I THINK, ONE, THAT HE DOESN'T WANT TO RESIGN.

BUT, TWO, MAYBE HE HAS HEARD THE CHATTER THAT SOME FOLKS MIGHT WANT HIM TO REDSINE?

>> YEAH.

I MEAN I THINK, GRANTED WHENEVER SOMETHING LIKE THIS HAPPENS, I THINK WHEN AN -- ONE INSTINCT IS TO GET AHEAD OF ANYBODY PUTTING OUT THERE THAT YOU SHOULD RESIGN OR WOULD RESIGN OR MIGHT RESIGN.

I THINK THAT THIS HAS BEEN A -- ANYBODY WHO HAS COVEREDNATOR MIKE SHIRKEY FOR A PERIOD OF TIME IS PROBABLY NOT SUPER SURPRISED BY THESE REMARKS AS BILL MENTIONED, THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME NOR WILL IT PROBABLY BE THE LAST TIME THAT HE HAS BEEN CAUGHT SAYING THINGS THAT ARE JUST NOT APPROPRIATE.

HOWEVER, RIGHT NOW, HE IS ALSO IN A SITUATION WHERE HIS COUNTY HAS ESSENTIALLY CENTURED HIM TO COMBAT GOVERNOR WHITMER AND HER COVID RESTRICTIONS.

HE IS GETTING IT FROM BOTH SIDES, THESE PEOPLE WHO DISAGREE WITH THESE SEXIST.

AND THE WEIRD CRAZY REMARKS HE IS MAKING, YOU KNOW, CLAIMING THAT JANUARY 6TH IS A HOAX IS NOT OKAY OR FUNNY RIGHT NOW OR EVER.

SO, YOU KNOW, HE'S GOT THAT PROBLEM AND THEN EATS GOT MEMBERS OF HIS OWN PARTY SAYING HE IS NOT BEING REPUBLICAN ENOUGH.

HE IS IN A REALLY BAD BIND RIGHT NOW.

COMING OUT AHEAD AND SAYING I AM NOT RESIGNING IS SOMETHING HE IS GOING TO HAVE TO DO, AND I WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED IF A PART OF THE REASON FOR THAT IS PEOPLE ARE SAYING, WE'VE GOT TO GET RID OF THIS GUY.

>> LET'S BE CLEAR HERE.

>> HE SAID HE DID NOT SAY THE EVENTS ON THE CAPITOL WAS A HOAX.

HE WAS EXPLAINING TO THE LOU 10 ANT GOVERN AND -- THE GOVERNOR AND, I GUESS, AFTERWARDS, BILL, THAT THEREOF THERE WAS SOMEBODY BEHIND THIS WHO REPRIMANDED THIS SITUATION AND HE SAID THE F.B.I.

WILL IDENTIFY THAT PERSON DOWN THE ROAD HOW DOES THAT PLAY, WILLIAM?

>> HE BETTER BE HOPING AND PRAYING THAT THE F.B.I.

COMES OUT WITH A SMOKING GUN HERE IN A COUPLE OF WEEKS AND A BIG NAME SHOWING THIS IS THE VILLAIN BEHIND THE RIOT AT THE CAPITOL AND LET'S START THERE BECAUSE IF THE F.B.I.

DOESN'T PRODUCE SUCH A PERSON AND IF THERE ARE ALL OF THESE LINGERING DOUBTS OUT THERE ABOUT EVERYTHING THAT HE HAS SAID WITH RESPECT TO JANUARY .6TH, I THINK HE IS GOING TO LOOK VERY FOOLISH.

SO IT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE BAILED OUT.

AND I WOULDN'T WANT TO BE HIM AT THIS POINT.

>>, BUT HE ALSO SET A STACK WHICH KIND OF INDICATES THAT HE JUST ISN'T -- A LITTLE BIT BEYOND, YOU KNOW, THAT THERE IS JUST THE -- SAYING IT WAS STAGED, I THINK, IS FURTHER THAN SAYING THERE WAS SOMEBODY BEHIND THE INSUR RECOLLECTION THAT TOOK PLACE.

IT'S FURTHER PEDALLING OF CONSPIRACY THEORIES, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, THERE IS JUST A LOT OF THAT GOING ON RIGHT NOW.

IT DOESN'T REALLY HAVE A PLACE, I WOULD IMAGINE N MICHIGAN POLITICS.

>> LET'S ASK OUR GUESTS TO JOIN THE CONVERSATION, REPRESENTATIVE TYRONE CARTER, DEMOCRAT OF DETROIT.

GOOD MORNING, SIR.

HOW ARE YOU DOING?

>> GOOD MORNING.

I AM DOING WELL.

THEM, THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> WE HAVE BEEN CHATTING ABOUT MR. SHIRKEY.

WHEN YOU FIRST HEARD THIS STUFF, WHAT WAS THE FIRST THAT'S RIGHT WENT THROUGH YOUR MIND?

HE WOULD BE BETTER OFF BEING WYANT NOW.

WE ARE IN SOME SERIOUS NEGOTIATIONS.

HE WOULD BE BETTER TO LET IT GO.

TO ADD AN INSULT WITH THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR T DOESN'T SERVE HIM AND HIS PARTY AND HIS LEADERSHIP WELL AT THIS POINT LEADERSHIP MATTERS.

IF ET CETERA THE LEADER OF THAT PARTY AND ET CETERA MAKING THESE STATEMENTS AND HE FEELS THAT WAY, THEN SOMETIMES HE GIVES THE OPPORTUNITIES FOR OTHERS WHO MAY NOT FEEL THAT WAY.

BUT HE GIVES THEM THE OPPORTUNITY TO SAY THINGS THAT THEY REALLY SHOED NOT' SO A SINCERE APOLOGY WOULD SERVE HIM BETTER.

>> CHEYNA, JUMP IN HERE.

>> I AM CURIOUS, REP CARTER, GIVEN THAT SHIRKEY IS NOT GOING ANYWHERE IN THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE, HOW DO YOU SEE THIS FOR THE UPCOMING COVID PACKAGE?

WE HAVE A BUDGET COMING UP SOON.

I MEAN IS THIS GOING TO, YOU KNOW, FURTHER FRACTURE AN ALREADY VERY DIFFICULT RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE LEGISLATURE AND THE GOVERNOR?

>> WELL, I THINK ANY -- IF HE WANTED TO COME IN WITH A LEVEL OF EQUALITY THAT WE COULD NEGOTIATE ON THE SAME LEVEL, HE HAS LOST OF THAT LEVERAGE WITH HIS REMARKS RECENTLY AND LOST A LOT OF SUPPORT THAT HE MAY HAVE HAD IN THE GENERAL PUBLIC BECAUSE TO MAKE THOSE, THOSE STATEMENTS IN THIS ENVIRONMENT AT THIS TIME, I THINK IT DOESN'T SERVE HIM WELL, NOR HIS PARTY.

>> THE RILEY?

>> REPRESENTATIVE -- GO AHEAD.

>> GO AHEAD, BILL.

>> I WAS JUST GOING TO ASK WHETHER REPRESENTATIVE CARTER BELIEVES THAT JAYSON WHITWORTH'S POSITION AS SPEAKER AND -- AND HE IS NEW DIFFERS MARKET OF MARKEDLY FROM SHIRKEY AND ISN'T THAT MORE IMPORTANT IN TERMS OF RELATIONSHIP WITH THE GOVERNOR THAN MIKE SHIRKEY AS FAR AS YOU ARE CONCERNED IN THE HOUSE?

>> YES.

I THINK THAT THE, YOU KNOW, SPEAKER WENTWORTH PROBABLY HAS A DIFFERENT LOOK ON IT, BUT HE IS STILL PART OF THE PARTY.

SO HE WOULD BE -- HE WOULD SERVE HIS -- HE WOULD SERVE THE HOUSE WELL TO KIND OF PUT SOME DISTANCE AND I READ THIS STATEMENT.

I THOUGHT THAT WAS REALLY WELL DONE TO SHOW THE PEOPLE THAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT, I DON'T FEEL THAT WAY.

WE STILL HAVE WORK TO DO, AND NEED TO SIT DOWN AND HAMMER THIS OUT TO BENEFIT THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF MICHIGAN.

SO, I AGREE WITH YOU THAT, YOU KNOW, SPEAKER WENTWORTH MAY BE TAKING A DIFFERENT VIEW OF THIS.

>> RILEY?

>> SO A COLLEAGUE OF MINE MADE A GOOD POINT YESTERDAY THAT SENATOR SHIRKEY HAS SORT OF BEEN THE ROADBLOCK TO TRANSPIECE PACKAGES PASSING THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE.

THESE STATEMENTS WERE CAUGHT ON HOT MIC AND ON A IT RECORDED VIDEO.

IS THIS AN INDICATION THAT THERE IS TIME FOR A TRANSPARENCY PACKAGE AND THIS IS THE MOMENT TO GET IT DONE?

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

I RECEIVED A TEXT THE OTHER DAY FROM A REPORTER IN DETROIT, FROM CHANNEL 7, ASKING REALLY THE SAME QUESTION ABOUT A TRANSPARENCY PACKAGE.

AND, YOU KNOW, I TOLD THEM THAT REP DAVID LEGRANDE HAS BEEN WORKING ON THIS FOR SIX YEARS.

A LOT OF DEMOCRATS HAVE SIGNED ON TO IT.

I THINK THIS GIVES A HUGE PUSH TO THAT PACKAGE BECAUSE WE ARE WHAT?

ONE OF OM TWO STATES THAT DON'T DO IT RIGHT NOW.

SO, I THINK THAT A LOT OF -- I DON'T WANT TO SAY NEGATIVE THINGS OR POSITIVE THINGS, ARE GOING TO COME OUT OF THIS LATEST SHIRKEY EPISODE.

>> REPETITIVE, PUT THE HAT ON OF THE STATE POLICE NEGOTIATIONS.

WHEN YOU HEARD THEY WERE EX CHANGING MESSAGES THAT WEREN'T GOING TO BE AVAILABLE TO THE FREED FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT, WHAT DID YOU THINK ABOUT THAT.

>> DURING THIS TIME WITH EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING ON NEGATIVE WITH POLICING, FOR YOU ALL TO DO THAT IN LEADERSHIP, IT RUINS SOME OF YOUR CREDIBILITY THAT YOU HAVE IN THE COMMUNITIES AND EVEN IN THE LAW ENFORCEMENT COMMUNITY FOR LEADERSHIP TO DO THIS AND TO BE CAUGHT AND NOW EXPOSED, WHY DO IT?

I NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHY HE FELT THE NEED TO DO IT.

>> REPRESENTATIVE, YOU ARE A FORMER POLICE OFFICER, YOURSELF.

DON'T THE POLICE HAVE TO COMMUNICATE WITH ONE ANOTHER WITHOUT EVERYBODY AND HIS UNCLE LOOKING IN ON THE CONVERSATION?

IT COULD BE SENSITIVE MATERIAL.

COULDN'T IT?

>> WELL A GENIUS IN THIS DAY IN TIME WOULD KNOW NOT TO SENDS ANY TEXT MESSAGES ON GOVERNMENT PHONES, CODED OR UNCODED.

>> THIS WAS -- THIS WAS MY WORDS, NOT YOURS: A STUPID MISTAKE.

>> I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CALL THAT A MISTAKE IF EVERYTHING IS DOING IT, IF YOU HAVE A CIRCLE THAT'S DOING IT AND YOU KNOW WHAT HAS HAPPENED WITH TEXT MESSAGES IN THE PAST, I THINK THERE COULD HAVE BEN ANOTHER AVENUE.

>> REPRESENTATIVE, LET ME ASK YOU -- >> GO AHEAD.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE RESISTANCE IN THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY TO GETTING COVID-19 VACCINE SHOTS?

IS IT GETTING ANY LESS OF A THREAT TO THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN POPULATION?

>> YOU KNOW WHAT?

I HAD THE SHOT, AND THE OTHER DAY, I TOOK -- LET ME SAY, THE CITY OF DETROIT IS DOING A FABULOUS JOB WITH COVID.

WE WENT THERE THE OTHER DAY HOURS AND SO THIS THE MISINFORMATION ABOUT THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY NOT WANTING THE SHOT IS NOT WHAT I SAW.

IT'S NOT WHAT I KNOW.

I HAVE PEOPLE CALLING ME AS THEIR STATE REP REQUESTING WHEN CAN WE GET THE SHOT?

HOW CAN WE GET THE SHOT?

SO AND I WILL JUST SAY THIS: MY SISTER IS A MEDICAL DOCTOR.

SHE USED TO BE WITH HENRY FORD.

SHE IS WITH BLUECROSS NOW.

HER CONVERSATION WITH ME, SIBLINGS AND ANYBODY THAT WILL LISTEN IS: YOU NEED TO EXPLAIN TO ME WHY YOU WON'T GET THE SHOT?

IF YOU'VE GOT A VACCINATION FOR POLIO, IF YOU GET A FLU SHOT, THIS HAS BEEN THE MOST TRANSPARENT STUDY EVER.

YOU NEED TO GET ME TO UNDERSTAND WHY YOU WOULD STEAK YOUR CHANCES WITHOUT THE VACCINE, AND WATCH PEOPLE DIE WHO WOULD HAVE JUMPED IN LINE TO GET IT.

AND AS A COVID SURVIVOR, IF I COULD HAVE BEEN FIRST IN LINE -- AND IT'S NOT ABOUT ME.

IT'S ABOUT PROTECTING THE PEOPLE THAT I LOVE.

SO WHAT I'VE WITNESSED -- AND PROBABLY WHAT YOU ARE SEEING NOW AS WELL -- THIS MISINFORMATION THAT THE BLACK COMMUNITY DOESN'T WANT IT, I TOTALLY DISAGREE FROM WHAT I HAVE OBSERVED, WHAT I HAVE HEARD AND WHAT I HAVE ACTUALLY SEEN.

>> CHEYNA.

>> BOUNCING OFF OF THAT A LITTLE BIT, GIVEN THERE IS QUITE A BIT OF MONEY HANGING THROUGHOUT THAT WE ARE WAITING TO ALLOCATE FOR VACCINES AND THE VACCINE DISTRIBUTION, WHAT ARE SOME THINGS THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE IN ORDER FOR THE STATE TO BE EVEN MORE SUCCESSFUL OR SUCCESSFUL WITH THIS?

WHAT ELSE DO WE NEED TO BE DOING AND WHERE SHOULD WE BE GOING?

>> I THINK THEY ARE EX PANTING IT TO PLACES THAT ARE RURAL.

AND IF WE -- FIRST, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE EQUIPMENT BECAUSE OF, YOU KNOW, THE TEMPERATURE THAT IT HAS TO BE AT.

AS WE MOVE FORWARD, I KNOW THE JOHN SON & JOHNSON IS WORKING THEIRS AS WELL.

BUT RIGHT NOW, I THINK THAT THE CITY OF DETROIT CAN BE A MODEL FOR WHAT'S BEING DONE.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SENTING IT TO SENIOR CITIZENS IN CHURCHES NOW, IN TWO DESIGNATED AREAS THE IN THE CITY OF DETROIT.

AS WE EXPAND IT, WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO EXPAND IT IF A LOT OF PEOPLE DIDN'T WANT IT.

SO THIS SAYS TO ME THAT MORE PEOPLE WANT IT.

SO WE HAVE TO OPEN IT UP.

I KNOW, YOU KNOW, I COVER DISTRICT 6 WHICH IS ECORSE ROUGE AND DETROIT ANDGATE HAS BEEN DOING A FANTASTIC JOB AS WELL.

I THINK IF WE CAN GET MORE MONEY TO DO THIS, HOPEFULLY WE CAN GET MORE PEOPLE IMMUNIZED BEFORE I THINK WE'RE LOOKING AT MAYBE THE FALL NOW OR LATE SUMMER, YOU KNOW, THE MORE OPPORTUNITIES WE PRESENT, I THINK THAT THE SOONER WE CAN COME OUT OF THIS AND SEE A SENSE NORMALACY.

>> RILEY?

>> WE ARE BEGINNING A BUDGETS NEGOTIATION PROCESS.

WHAT IS A NEGOTIABLE FOR YOU?

AND DO YOU SEE ANY POTENTIAL ROADBLOCKS TO THIS PROCESS GOING FORWARD?

>> YOU KNOW WHAT?

EVERYTHING IS NEGOTIABLE.

EVERYTHING IS WORTHY OF A CONVERSATION.

WE HAVE TO SIT DOWN AND HAVE REALISTIC -- BECAUSE THERE ARE THREE THINGS.

IT'S COVID, COVID, COVID, ALL DAY.

AND FROM THAT COMES THE ECONOMIC RECOVERY FOR SMALL BUSINESSES.

FROM COVID COMES THE ABILITY TO SEND OUR CHILDREN TO SCHOOLS TO GET BACK TOGETHER.

SO WE'VE GOT TO SIT DOWN AND HAVE AN HONEST REASONABLE CONVERSATION THAT IS NOT BASED ON THE -- I COULD GO WITH DISTRICT 6, THE HOSPITALITY DISTRICT.

I HAVE THE CASINOS, EVERY STADIUM, HOTELS, RESTAURANTS AND THEY HAVE ALL BEEN SHUTTERED FOR AT LEAST TWO MONTHS.

SO WE NEED TO HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT HOW THIS HAS IMPACTED NOT JUST MY DISTRICT BUT THE ENTIRE STATE.

YOU KNOW, THERE IS NOTHING NEGOTIABLE.

WE NEED TO SIT DOWN AND FIGURE OUT OUR PRIORITIES.

AND MY PRIOR TO PROOIRPTS ARE COVID, ECONOMIC RECOVERY AND GETTING THE MONEY FOR GETTING PEOPLE BACK IN SCHOOL, UTILITY AND RENT PAYMENTS THAT, YOU KNOW, HAVE GONE AND FOOD SECURITY AND THE WATER SHUT-OFFS.

WE NEED TO ADDRESS THAT NOW.

>> REPRESENTATIVE, LET'S TALK ABOUT LIFE ON THE FLOOR OF THE MICHIGAN HOUSE ON TWO FRONTS.

ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH YOUR COLLEAGUES HAVING CONSEELDS WEAPONS AND ARE YOU PACKING HEAT ON THE FLOOR, SIR?

>> THE FIRST QUESTION: AM I COMFORTABLE?

NOT WITH ALL OF THEM.

JUST BECAUSE YOU GO TO A GUN RANGE AND YOU GET A CPL DOESN'T MAKE YOU QUALIFIED TO -- I MEAN, YOU ARE QUALIFIED LEGAL THAT'S CORRECT CARRY A GUN BUT, YOU KNOW F SOMETHING HAPPENS, I WORRY ABOUT PEOPLE THAT FEEL LIKE, YOU KNOW, THEY ARE READY.

NO.

.2, YES, I DO.

AND IT'S GOTTEN A LITTLE DIFFERENT FOR ME.

I USED TO CARRY A CERTAIN WEAPON.

NOW, I MAKE SURE I HAVE ENOUGH TO GET TO WHERE I GOT TO GO IF SOMETHING HAPPENS.

>> RUP FOR WEAPONS ON THE HOUSE FLOOR?

>> AM I IT FOR BANNING?

IT WOULDN'T BOTHER ME IF NOBODY -- IF I KNOW THAT NO ONE HAS IT, THEN I AM OKAY.

I WOULD BE WILLING TO -- >> DO YOU HAVE ANY DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA.

>> I TRUST THE STATE POLICE.

I'M SORRY.

BILL?

>> DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MANY OTHER MEMBERS ALSO CONCEAL CARRY?

>> I HAVE AN IDEA BECAUSE WE HAD A BILL IN MILITARY AND VETS SO I AM THINKING BETWEEN 15 AND 20 THAT ARE CPL HOLDERS.

WHAT WAS INTERESTING, MY REQUEST TO MY COLLEAGUES IS THAT: YOU LET THE SERGEANT ON THE FLOOR KNOW THAT YOU HAVE -- YOU DON'T HAVE TO LET US KNOW, YOUR OTHER COLLEAGUES.

LET THE SERGEANT KNOW BECAUSE THEY ARE IN CHARGE OF OUR SAFETY.

IF SOMETHING JUMPS OFF, THEY NEED TO KNOW WHO IS CARRYING A WEAPON TO STAY AWAY FROM BECAUSE THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FRIENDLY FIRE WHEN A RIOT BREAKS OUT.

>> QUICKLY, THE MASK ISSUE ON THE HOUSE FLOOR, ARE YOU UPSET WITH SOME OF YOUR REPUBLICAN CLOOES COLLEAGUES WHO ARE NOT MASKING UP?

>> YES.

I AM.

I AM.

BECAUSE AGAIN, LEADERSHIP MATTERS.

AND IF YOU ARE SITTING UP THERE AS A -- ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE AND YOU ARE ADVOCATING FOR RESOURCES FOR COVID, YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT FRONT LINE WORKERS, AND THEN YOU DON'T WEAR A MAVERICK ON THE FLOOR, YOU DON'T WEAR A MASK IN COMMITTEE -- WE HAD TO WALK BY ISAAC ROBINSON'S DESK WHO DIED FROM IT.

I HAD IT.

I THINK THERE HAS BEN ABOUT SEVEN OR EIGHT REPRESENTATIVES THAT HAVE HAD IT.

SO TO STILL STLIT AND LIKE YOU ARE DEFYING SOMETHING, IT'S DISRESPECTFUL TO YOUR COLLEAGUES BECAUSE WE STILL DON'T HAVE A HANDLE ON THIS, AND TO SIT -- I HAD SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES WALK OUT OF COMMITTEES BECAUSE SOME OF MY REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES DID NOT HAVE MASKS ON.

IF YOU RESPECT IT'S, IF YOU ARE WITH US AND WE ARE A TEAM, THERE ARE 110 OF IT'S.

WE COME FROM EVERY POINT, EVERY PLATES IN THIS STATE AND WE MEET THERE DO.

US A FAVOR.

WEAR A MASK.

>> VERY GOOD.

REPRESENTATIVE, THANKS FOR JOINING US ON OUR PROGRAM.

HAVE FUN AT THE BUDGET BRIEF CAN AND WE WILL CHECK YOU ON THE OTHER SIDE.

OKAY.

>> ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU ALL FOR HAVING ME.

YOU GUYS HAVE A GREAT DAY.

>> YES.

THANKS TO MY COLLEAGUES WHO JOINED US ON THE RECORD.

SEE US RIGHT HERE NEXT WEEK WITH ANOTHER EDITION OF OTR.

>> PRODUCTION OF OFF THE RECORD IS MADE POTS NIBBLE PART BY THE FOLLOWING: BUSINESS LEADERS FROM MICHIGAN HAS A STRATEGIC PLAN TO MAKE MICHIGAN A TOP 10 STATE IN THE NATION FOR JOBS, PERSONAL INCOME AND A HEALTHY ECONOMY.

LEARN MORE AT MICHIGAN'S ROAD TO TOP 10.COM.

FOR MORE OFF THE RECORD VISIT WKAR.ORG.

MICHIGAN PUBLIC TELEVISION STATIONS HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO THE PRODUCTION COSTS OF OFF THE RECORD WITH TIM SKUBIC.

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