On the record is brought to you by Steve and Adele Dufilho San Antonio is a fast growing, fast moving city with something new happening every day.

That's why each week we go on the record with Randy Beamer and the newsmakers who are driving this change.

Then we gather at the Reporters Roundtable to talk about the latest news stories with the journalist behind those stories.

Joining us now as we go on the Record with Randy Beamer.

Hi, everybody, and thank you for joining us for on the Record this week.

I'm Randy Beamer and we are starting with a new code of conduct for city council.

You might think it's related to some recent censures of council members, but it actually goes back several years before those votes.

Joining us to talk about that is Dr. Adriano Rosa Garcia, District four, city council member.

Thank you for coming in.

Thanks for the invite.

People might think, okay, well, there was Clayton Perry.

There was an incident with Mario Bravo.

Now we have Mark White, the DWI incidents, the last ones.

But that's not how you started.

What started it with you thinking council needed a code of conduct?

Well, I was on the city's ethics review board for many years before I decided to step down and run for council.

And there was different rules that city employees had to obey.

There was an ethics code that was followed.

There was campaign finance requirement, but there was really no code of conduct.

And I was noticing that the council at the time, although I wasn't a part of it, there was just some things that I could tell were going on from the outside looking in that just didn't seem professional on the dais or on social media or both or what both it was in general.

And so I was looking at how do we conduct ourselves in our committee meetings as representatives of the city council members, But then how are council members conducting themselves on the dais and with each other?

And so I started wondering, I wonder if there's something that's going on that I don't know about.

And so the first thing that I did, really when I got elected in 2019 is just like a new employee.

You ask, where's this?

Where's that?

How do we do this?

And so I had a meeting with the city attorney, and Andy Segovia was the first one that I think popped my bubble because I said Andy to I know we have an ethics code and campaign finance reports that we have to do.

And I said, when do we sign our code of conduct?

And Andy said, Well, we don't have a code of conduct council and we have the ethics code.

And I said, But the ethics code Ethics code doesn't address relations with council members.

And I feel like maybe that's the reason that I've seen some things get out of hand lately with the previous council, you know, out of hand.

Some people wonder, well, it's politicians.

There's going to be disagreements sometimes it's heated.

What did you see as out of hand maybe with your marketing background that you saw things representing the city that you didn't like or others didn't see those?

What are the kind of things that that triggered what you wanted to change?

Sure, it was in the way that council members were speaking with each other.

It's okay to disagree.

It's okay to bring valid points that are contrary to someone's opinion, but disparaging comments and going and doing things behind closed doors and then going and doing something different in front of closed doors.

And so executive sessions, for instance, I know our covered specific under the Texas Code, However, what are we doing as a council to make sure that we all feel completely comfortable when we're talking with one another?

And so that's kind of the the thing that triggered it.

Like, I would hear these things, and I'll be honest with you, I heard of these things in the media or I would see these things in the media, and I was grateful that they were picking this up because I was wondering what's going on?

Who has the ultimate responsibility to say, wait a second, that's just unprofessional?

Now, the vote was 8 to 2, so it wasn't unanimous.

And Jalen, Mickey Rodrigues in District two, Terry Castillo in District five voted against.

They were a little concerned, as I understand, Joe on the keyboard.

Pretty guess that if you say something on social media, people take offense.

But he wants to be strong in his opinions.

What how did you respond to that?

That were, you know, watering down discourse?

Right.

And so one of the things that I told my colleagues on the dais that day is it's just a start and it's back to basics and civility and discourse and appropriate discourse, not necessarily, again, the disparaging comments.

There is a code of conduct for almost every other profession out there.

And so you think of what doctors have to sign with.

They become doctors.

You think of even marketers have code of conduct.

And so there is a whole lot of professions that said, we will commit to this for the public because of the organizations that we represent.

Right?

And so so I told my colleagues it's okay to disagree.

This is just a starting point sometimes that there's councilmembers that will talk over another.

Right.

And so that's not following Robert's Rules of Order.

So, for instance, this code of conduct says that we will follow Robert's Rules of Order.

One of the things that I also noticed when I got on council is that not everybody knew Robert's Rules of Order.

They didn't know that they could do certain things.

They didn't know that they could do certain things.

Now, you brought this up 2019, but did it not gain any traction until the Mario Bravo incident where he disparaged another council member and then we had the two DWI?

Do you think that's where it took off?

I really do think that that's where it took off.

So again, we had brought this up and my team had done some research in the early stages in 2019.

The city attorney's office also did some research when they realized, there is no code of conduct.

There's nothing that says that we have to follow Robert's Rules of Order, for instance.

And so they were working on that, but it didn't get traction.

And I think it's because it's if we didn't think that anything was being just flat out rude or disrespectful, then we didn't see the need for.

So what's the difference between the code of ethics and how it maybe would have affected the DWI and things like that, If that would that have applied and this wouldn't have applied to that code of conduct?

So the code of ethics is written in particular for city administrators.

And so you are able to have a group that is appointed by each one of the council members that looks at complaints, but they're more really focused on city employees.

So what are the repercussions of the code of conduct if you violate that as compared to the code of ethics?

Are there really repercussions besides a censure?

There's three things that the code of conduct can do.

So we can write a letter of reprimand, which the city's ethics code can also do to city employees.

We can write a a formal censure.

Right.

Which says that we do not agree with the way that that that this particular councilmember maybe behaved.

And then the third is we can call for resignation in the code of ethics.

You can also do that.

However.

It doesn't apply also to specific cases or specific administrative directives that didn't apply to council members.

There's also now the limited government corporation that we found founded, and it was specifically for council AIDS, for instance, that there the ethics code did not necessarily apply to because they were not city employees.

So what are the repercussions if if someone has, say, a DWI, does that apply to ethics or conduct when they're found that they go through their fair and legal process, Then at that point it does become a matter of what the public wants, wants to see eventually.

The public always has the right to maybe not vote for that person again, as you have seen and in some cases passed.

However, the code of conduct just reminds us, if you will, it's just a reminder that there is a certain way that we should be talking for instance, about a colleague's particular case.

Now, this is only a four page document, and Mario Bravo himself and some others said it's kind of vague that he wanted to include lawyers representation.

Why wasn't that in there?

Sure.

So process was one of the things that we wanted to make sure that was included in the code of conduct.

And it was that the council member that has a complaint filed against them that they know that the complaint is filed against them, that they had the opportunity to talk to the council members.

That's one of the things that is codified in this code of conduct, whereas before it wasn't.

And so the application of a fair and balanced approach for everyone, not necessarily for one and not for the other.

One last question.

Is this some people might see this kind of we're going snowflake.

I remember when I came here 40 some years ago, if a councilman wanted to say something, they said it and then they said more than whatever.

And it was so different than where I came from in the Midwest.

Are we are is that what do you say to those who say it's just we're watering down the whole workplace?

Well, I think that there's different occasions of violence in the workplace that that have occurred across.

We see that there's discord.

We see that city council now, state council.

It's in general.

And so we we don't want to get there.

And so we just want to commit ourselves to making sure that we provide a professional and safe working environment at city council.

All right.

Well, thank you very much for explaining all that.

Dr. Adriano Rocher Garcia, District four Council member, thanks for coming in.

Thank you, Randi.

Historically, San Antonio's east side has been called economically disadvantaged or underserved.

Some of the poorer neighborhoods in San Antonio.

But with housing prices going up, there is concern that more and more people are going to be priced out of their homes with taxes going up.

Joining us to talk about that and how there's a group dealing with it is James Naughty, the CEO of San Antonians for growth on the east side.

Thank you very much for coming in.

You haven't been in this in this position long.

So I wanted to have you come in and talk about where you're going to take this as well as your experience, because you have a unique experience and background in this.

That's right.

First of all, Randi, thank you for having me.

I'm excited to be here.

Most excited to be the chief executive officer for San Antonio, for both the East side or Sage, as we actually call it.

It is an honor and a blessing, particularly given the work.

I'm passionate about this.

A little bit of background.

My primary serves as an attorney, as a corporate attorney, where I represented clients all of the spectrum from businesses to governments.

But when I wasn't in the corporate suites, I was voluntary in the city streets, primarily in Austin.

And in that role, I served on the board of many nonprofits, helping them advanced admission to carrying capital to businesses, and also promoting art and economic development.

And so when this opportunity arose, I moved to San Antonio around 2019, but it mostly kind of been the background and given the chance to see the work of what was happening in San Antonio and the similarities between my work in Austin, it was a dream come true.

It was I'm so grateful to be, and that has been such a big issue in East Austin.

Yes, gentrification.

That's right.

To the max.

Because of the housing prices, they're just booming.

That's right.

And then allowing developers basically to take any lot and build whatever they want on it.

I don't know if you kept up with what's going on in Austin, but how similar is it to that?

How did you deal with it?

I have.

So here's where the similarities are in that.

With city planning, governments intentionally designated portions of the city where African-Americans would not get the same resources required anywhere from water to city services.

And so because of the historic disenfranchisement you already had built into the system, whether it be redlining, where banks were making loans or whether it be lack of access to education opportunities, you had a community who found a way to be resilient despite opportunities.

What's changed now is that because of rising house prices all over the city, it's perceived that there are now cheaper options east of San Antonio.

And so while we've seen increased housing prices, it puts pressure on the community already there.

And so when I speak to our fellow community members, they want to see more retail, they want to see more streetscape.

They want to look something like the Pearl District, which is immensely well.

The challenge, though, is how do we have fantastic development that supports the community without displacing the individuals already live there and how are you doing that?

I know there are some grants, storefront grants, the back office grants to help the businesses.

But how about how do you help retirees who can't pay their taxes because it's gone up?

So what we've discovered is that it all starts with having a plan.

And so from our perspective, cities uniquely situated help businesses.

We help entrepreneurs who want to launch a business, whether it be on the front end, having a storefront grant such that they can help make sure that the exterior of their business is enticing for customers or on the back end to the extent that they want to make sure that they're accounting their tax operations in place, we're able to understand their needs, refer them to services to get their businesses where they want to go, and workforce development as well.

How do you deal with that?

Or you're just working with the city, working with some private businesses?

Because that's part of it is getting people who work there, right.

Better jobs, making more money, paying taxes, or being able to pay the taxes on those houses.

That's exactly right.

So it's all connected.

And so the good news is that we have partners all over, including the city of San Antonio, UTSA, to help those who are looking for workforce training services.

And so as a as a community resource, we can't be all things to all people.

However, we do convene the community and so there's something we can do.

We have a connect other partners who do have that specific service.

There have been different zones of promise on the east side development zone and you said one of them just expired.

That's exactly right.

And so in 2014, the Obama administration had designated 22 square miles on the eastern side of San Antonio as a promising.

So with that came federal dollars to the city to help catalyze redevelopment, revitalization everywhere, from education to housing to development.

And so that designation officially ended on January 7th, 2024.

But through that process, we're able to see new investment in housing.

We're able to see the Etsy Training Center come on board that would allow for workforce development.

However, the work still is ongoing.

You know, Randi, when people think about San Antonio, they remember military city, the Alamo, the Riverwalk, all gorgeous.

But unfortunately, there is a perception that when it comes to the east side, well, they may not want to go there, be concerned about safety.

Our work is trying to catalyze this wonderful community cultural heritage and flip it because there is so much beauty on the east side, but it just hasn't had the same level of investment.

Are you concerned about now?

There's a lot of investment.

The Texas Research and Technology Foundation, just east of downtown, south of Sunset Station, a few blocks that with that comes white collar jobs, lots of money.

People are going to want to either take over some of those houses, buy some of those houses where older people live or tear down those houses and build new.

And we've seen some of that right creeping, you know, east toward the far lower east Side.

Right.

Here's what I'm not concerned now Steph is rebrand as Velocity Texas and we started engaging conversations to work side by side in tandem.

The way to promote the districts we want to see in other words, the way we want to see development without displacement is by being intense in our planning.

We want to direct our growth, our new businesses along our major thoroughfare.

So your Houston street, your Commerce Street, New Braunfels, that way.

Businesses are structured in a planned way, and we're not seeing that creep into the neighborhoods by having careful planning ahead of time, but working, thinking through where do we want our business centers to come from?

We're able to take off some of that pressure.

It's when we don't have that plan with the city.

We know that plan with the community partners.

We start to see developers haphazardly develop.

What kind of businesses do you want along those thoroughfare?

Sure.

Because right now there's kind of small businesses, storefronts.

We don't think of a lot of business on those thoroughfares to say the Prospect Center.

Right.

And so we want to have a mix of family friendly businesses, anywhere from street retail, anything from coffee shops to bars and restaurants to thinking where would a family want to go?

Having entertainment sectors may having anything from bowling alleys, anything from where you would take your family venues for additional artist and for for conferences, for entertainment zones.

That way you can attract a range, whether it be young professionals, whether it be young families or older families who can feel like there's something there for them.

And you mentioned there are three pillars, basically, that you as going forward, you want to put into stage.

That's exactly right.

So it has three major roles.

First, to continue to support businesses, whether through our back office program or whether they were storefront program and run access to capital.

Second, to preserve the rich cultural heritage and the sense of placemaking that a community has.

And then third, to continue to guide growth.

We know the little bit pressure is coming.

We can embrace that in a creative way, but we can do it constructively to preserve what we love, but also to bring in new vitality.

Well, good luck with that.

And that's quite a job you have there.

New CEO of Sage James Norton.

Thank you very much for coming in.

One of the booth.

Ready?

Thank you.

Thanks.

On Reporters roundtable this week, we're talking about a couple of buildings, historic buildings on the west side and their future, which is kind of in limbo right now as developers want to tear them down and build a couple of different buildings.

Here to talk about that is a woman who has reported on that.

Business reporter Madison Esler of the San Antonio Express-News.

Thank you very much for coming in.

Tell us about this.

I guess the main one is the Rich book building named for Rich book more than a hundred years ago.

What's what's the issue with this?

Yes.

So the controversy is the owners of the building, the rich book building, and an adjacent smaller building, current owners, the current owners want to demolish both of those buildings.

They say that the cost of renovating those buildings would exceed what they could make back if they were to lease out those buildings and that they've not been able to find buyers or tenants who want to lease the buildings or buy them because of concerns about homelessness in the area and also what it would take to rehab those buildings.

But the objections are coming from historic preservationists is saying those are those are iconic buildings on the west side.

Yes.

The director of the Esperanza Peace and Justice Center and also the historic West Side Residents Association are saying that both of these buildings are historically significant and also a part of the broader Cattleman Square area, which they say is historically significant.

And they see this not as an isolated case, but as a broader pattern of historic buildings in this area, which was once a hub of commerce and activity being raised or attempted before the freeway cut through there, that was much more coherent neighborhood.

But another thing that's an issue there is a number of homeless.

The haven for hope is not far away.

And those buildings have been a target of there have been a fire at another building, a historic building.

The Chinese restaurant that was there, they wanted to tear that down and didn't.

Is that right?

What what other buildings around that you think are going to be affected by this decision?

Well, the the Whit printing co building, which is owned by the family that owns the nearby Golden Star restaurant, they had tried to demolish that building.

They said that the cost of rehabbing, it was just outside what they could afford.

And so they wanted to raise it and potentially sell that site to a developer who might want to build, for example, housing, since it's near, UTSA is downtown campus.

But again, preservation groups didn't want that to happen and opposed it on the grounds that the building was historically significant and could potentially be reused.

Now, David Adelman is a local developer.

His grandfather was a developer.

There's a named there's Adelman building down, I think of Houston or Commerce.

So he's not like from New York just wanting to raise these historic buildings.

He developed the Redevelop the Mavericks building.

But so he's sensitive to that.

But in this case, they say they just can't make the money, especially in that location right now.

Yes.

Yes.

He said that the cost is just outside what they could recover.

They'd be losing money on the building.

He says essentially if they were even if they were to be able to fully lease it out, which he said it's been for sale for a couple of years.

They've talked to tenants and nobody is interested.

Now, publicly, they haven't said much or have they, about the issue of homeless people in the area because they congregate around the be a central there as well as around those buildings, because a haven for hope isn't far away.

Have they talked about that much?

Has that been an issue publicly in why they couldn't make money right now on that or not?

They've touched on it in their application to the city to try to demolish these buildings.

And they've also included letters from organizations that looked at potentially buying or renting these buildings, who said, we're concerned about our employees safety if we were to move into these buildings?

So it's definitely one of the issues that they've raised as a barrier to attracting more activity in this area and also by the tracks over there on the east side of the tracks from the jail.

There are a couple of other buildings, including a Scobee building that they've talked about renovating.

Where are they in those plans?

Yes.

So VEO, which owns this go complex, had planned to work with a private developer Dreamer group.

They were going to rehab the Scobee building as a mixed use development.

But back in November, they scrapped that plan.

They said it would just be too difficult because of the financing environment right now, with interest rates and the difficulty of lining up financing to develop in that area, the risks attached to that.

And so that plan is essentially nullified Via said it still wants to develop the Scobee building.

That complex is sitting empty right now, but the plan that they had worked on isn't going to proceed.

What does the developer want to do with those sites if they raise those sites?

He's talked about building housing, potentially a housing complex with apartments and maybe some parking.

He hasn't said, well.

Or building a taller building.

Yes, five storeys.

Yes.

UTSA is nearby.

So the thinking is probably perhaps you could attract some students or people who just want to live closer to downtown.

And that's been talked about.

There are to the south, there are some condos and apartments to the south of there in the UTSA area.

What are the long term plans of developers in general in the city?

What do they want to see in that area?

Is there a consensus?

A lot of developers have talked about more housing.

Westin Urban, a downtown developer, is doing a lot in the west side of downtown.

That's on the other side of the highway from where these buildings are.

But they're building a lot of apartments and they're saying they think that there's a market for people who want to live in that area.

David Adelman and other developers have also said that that there's a need for more housing generally in San Antonio, but also if they want to create a more urban environment, more housing is needed downtown, not just hotels.

And there's another building that was in the news a while back.

The historic brothel that's just on this side of the freeway or the downtown side of the freeway And what happened there?

Yes.

So that's another case where the property was historic or had a historic nature preservation group said they wanted to see it revived, maybe repurposed in some way.

But the owner of that property, a family member of the Bill Miller Barbecue family, had wanted to demolish that complex potentially again, to build housing.

They were locked in a battle over that.

And then the complex burned down.

It had been boarded up.

There had been some activity in the surrounding area and before the city could rule on whether or not it was okay to demolish it, it burned down.

And so the city ultimately decided it won't be designated historic.

And that was historic not just because it was a brothel, but because it was in the red light district and there was a notorious madam in that area.

And they wanted to kind of keep that in tact.

But that building had been changed a lot, unlike the buildings, the rich book building we're talking about.

Right.

The rich book building and the next door building haven't been altered very much.

They've been used for different businesses over time.

Most recently, there were apartments, but right now they're vacant and they haven't been changed very much.

All right.

Well, thanks very much.

And are you going to continue to follow this and other stories, especially downtown business reporter of the San Antonio Express-News, Madison Metzler, thanks for coming in.

And it was one year ago that we lost iconic San Antonio artist Jesse Trevino.

He was a good friend.

I was privileged to produce a documentary about his life, and I invite you to watch it on our own dot right now.

Just go to KLRN.org and click on the original tab.

I'm Randi Beemer, and we'll see you next time on the record is brought to you by Steve & Adele Dufilho Do follow.