♪ ♪ WELCOME BACK OUR GUEST THIS WEEK IS ROBERT MCCANN OF THE K-12 ALLIANCE OF MICHIGAN PUSHING THE REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURE TO SPEND COVID AID FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THAT IS OUR LEAD STORY THERE IS A STALEMATE ON PUSHING THAT AID ON THE OTR PANEL ERIC LLOYD EMILY LAWLER AND CHAD LIVENGOOD.

SIT IN WITH US AS WE GET THE INSIDE OUT OFF THE RECORD.

PRODUCTION OF OFF THE RECORD IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY THE FOLLOWING, BUSINESS LEADERS FOR MICHIGAN HAS A STRATEGIC PLAN TO MAKE MICHIGAN A TOP TEN STATE IN THE NATION FOR JOBS, PERSONAL INCOME AND A HEALTHY ECONOMY LEARN MORE AT MICHIGAN ROAD TO TOP TEN.COM.

AND NOW THIS EDITION OF OFF THE RECORD WITH TIM SKUBICK.

♪ ♪ THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US AND TAKING TIME OUT OF YOUR BUSY SCHEDULE TO SIT IN WITH US AS WE WELCOME OUR PANELIST WE HAVE ERIC AND CHAD AND EMILY WHO WILL JOIN US MAGICALLY GOOD MORNING EVERYBODY HOW ARE WE ALL DOING?

>> GOOD MORNING GOOD.

>> WE ARE HOLDING UP TIM.

>> APPARENTLY YOU HAVE NOT HAD YOUR COFFEE YET LET'S TALK ABOUT THE LEAD STORY IN OUR TOWN THIS WEEK WHICH CONTINUES TO BE THE GOVERNOR SINGING THE SAME SONG AND GETTING NO REPLY FROM THE LEGISLATURE ON LET'S WORK TOGETHER ON THAT 5 BILLION IN FEDERAL COVID AID.

THE GOVERNOR INTRODUCED HER COVID RECOVERY PACKAGE SOME 22 DAYS AGO AND SPENDING 5 BILLION IN FEDERAL AID TO GET KIDS SAFELY BACK INTO SCHOOL, TO GET MORE SHOTS INTO ARMS AND TO GET BADLY NEEDED FINANCIAL HELP TO SMALL BUSINESSES THAT ARE SUFFERING.

BUT FOR THREE WEEKS THE GOVERNOR HAS REPEATED THE SAME LINE OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

>> RIGHT NOW WE ARE LEAVING THAT 5 BILLION JUST SITTING ON THE TABLE I LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH THE REPUBLICANS AND THE LEGISLATURE TO GET THIS DONE.

>> BUT DESPITE HER PLEAS STILL NO DEAL.

>> AS A PHYSICIAN I SHARE THE FRUSTRATION OF MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES WHO FEEL SOME POLITICIANS ARE WASTING TOO MUCH TIME IGNORING TOO MANY FACTS AND FRANKLY PLAYING POLITICAL GAMES WHEN PATIENTS LIVES ARE AT STAKE.

>> THE GOOD NEWS ON THE COVID FRONT IS THERE HAS BEEN AN 85% IN THE NUMBER OF CASES FEWER TEST RESULTS ARE COMING BACK POSITIVE A FIVE WEEK TREND AND 79% DROP IN COVID CASES IN HOSPITAL BEDS.

HOWEVER, THE STATE IS REPORTING 157 NEW VARIANT CASES IN 12 COUNTIES AROUND THE STATE INCLUDING 90 CASE OUT BREAK IN THE IONIA STATE PRISON.

MEANWHILE 14% OF THE STATE'S POPULATION HAS RECEIVED AT LEAST ONE SHOT AND.

>> 514,000 PEOPLE ARE FULLY VACCINATED OVER HALF A MILLION PEOPLE AND RECEIVED BOTH DOSES OF THE VACCINE.

OVER 35% OF PEOPLE OVER THE AGE OF 75 IN THE STATE HAVE HAD AT LEAST ONE DOSE OF THE VACCINE.

THIS MEANS WE ARE WELL ON OUR WAY TO OUR GOAL OF VACCINATING 70% OF MICHIGANERS AGE 16 AND UP AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.

>> ERIC THE ALLEGATION WAS MADE IN THAT PIECE FROM THE GOOD DOCTOR THAT SOMEBODY IS PLAYING POLITICS CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT THE POLITICS ARE BEING PLAYED IF THEY ARE BEING PLAYED?

>> WELL, THE BIG FIGHT THAT'S GOING ON IN LANSING IS NOT AS MUCH WHERE THE MONEY IS GOING TO GO BUT HOW IT'S GOING TO BE SPEND AND WHEN.

THE REPUBLICANS WANT TO HOLD BACK A GOOD CHUNK OF IT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT IS ACTUALLY NEEDED WHEN IT IS PUT OUT.

BUT THE GOVERNOR IS SAYING SHE WANTS ALL MONEY TO BE PUT OUT AS FAST AND AS SOON AS POSSIBLE SO WE CAN GET MORE PEOPLE VACCINATED AND MORE PEOPLE HELP AND SHE SAYS WHEN WE DO HAVE THAT MONEY THAT IS SPENT IT SENDS A MESSAGE TO THE WHITE HOUSE THAT WE ARE USING THE MONEY THEY SENT US SO THAT WE WILL GET MORE AID AND MORE VACCINES AND STAY AT THE TOP OF THAT CUE.

REPUBLICANS SAY THINGS ARE GOING WELL RIGHT NOW.

THEY ARE GETTING THE MONEY OUT THERE SO IT'S JUST A MATTER OF WE WILL PUT THIS MONEY OUT AND THEN WE WILL SEE WHAT ELSE NEEDS TO BE ALLOCATED AFTER THAT BECAUSE THINGS CHANGE ON A WEEKLY BASIS DURING THIS WHOLE COVID CRISIS.

>> EMILY THE ALLEGATION IS THAT THE REPUBLICANS ARE TRYING TO MAKE THE GOVERNOR LOOK BAD SET UP MOVING INTO NEXT YEAR WHICH SELL SHUN YEAR FOR HER AND THEM ANY VALIDITY TO THAT?

>> REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN TRYING TO INSERT THEMSELVES MORE FRONT AND CENTER OR REALLY AT ALL IN SORT OF THE POLICY AROUND HOW THE STATE IS RESPONDING TO THE CORONAVIRUS CRISIS.

OBVIOUSLY THE PURSE STRINGS IS A PLACE THAT THEY HAVE A LOT OF INHERENT POWER.

AND I THINK THEY FELT POWERLESS IN A LOT OF WAYS IN REGARDS TO THE EPIDEMIOLOGY ORDERS COMING OUT OF FIRST THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE AND DHHS.

BUT FOR THEM THIS IS A POLITICALLY OPPORTUNITY TO TRY TO ASSERT THEMSELVES AND WE ARE NOT DEALING WITH THE SORT OF THREAT THAT HOSPITALS WOULD BE OVER RUN BY THE VIRAL LOAD RIGHT NOW.

THE CASES ARE NOT SKY ROCKETING LIKE THEY WERE THIS FALL OR OF COURSE YOU KNOW A YEAR AGO ALMOST WHEN WE KNEW FAR LESS ABOUT THIS DISEASE.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT REPUBLICANS ARE LOOKING AT THIS AS A PLACE WHERE THEY CAN TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF TIME AND TRY TO GET SOME INPUT IN THE PROCESS.

>> GOVERNOR EXCUSE ME CHAD IT WAS POINTED OUT IN THE PIECE THAT THE GOVERNOR HAS BEEN ON THE MESSAGE LET'S WORK TOGETHER FOR QUITE A TIME WITH NOTHING TO SHOW FOR IT.

WHY NOT?

>> WELL, A LOT OF IT HAS TO DO WITH WHAT IS GOING ON ACROSS THE STREET TIM.

YOU HAVE SENATE MAJORITY LEADER WHO IS SORT OF STEPPING IN THAT DAY-TO-DAY AND WEEK TO WEEK BASIS WITH ALL OF HIS INCENDIARY COMMENTS AND INCLUDING MAKING COMMENTS ABOUT WISHING VIOLENCE ON THE GOVERNOR AND SO THERE IS PART OF THE ADMINISTRATION WE ARE NOT GOING TO NEGOTIATE WITH THIS GUY.

THE OTHER PART OF THE ADMINISTRATION I THINK THE THREE PEOPLE TO WATCH RIGHT NOW IN THIS TOWN ARE THE APPROPRIATIONS CHAIRS AND DAVE THE STATE BUDGET DIRECTOR AND THOSE THREE MEN CAN GET IN A ROOM AND TALK THIS OUT THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO MAKE A DEAL BECAUSE THE GOVERNOR AND MIKE SHIRKEY ARE NOT GOING TO MAKE A DEAL AND WE REALLY STILL DON'T KNOW HOW HOUSE SPEAKER JAESEAN WENTWORTH IS GOING TO KIND OF PLAY IN THESE TALKS AND THIS RELATIONSHIP.

I MEAN, THE LAST TERM WAS KIND OF IN THAT TRIO WAS SORT OF DEFINED TIMES BY LEE CHATFIELD TRYING TO BE THE DEAL MAKER.

AND ALWAYS GET THOSE TWO FOLKS IN THE SAME ROOM AND WE HAVE NOT REALLY SEEN WHETHER JAESEAN WENTWORTH HAS THAT SKILL SET YET.

>> THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY I THINK FOR THE NEW SPEAKER TO BE SOME PEOPLE SAY TO BE THE ADULT IN THE ROOM.

HE COULD BE THE EX FACTOR THAT BREAKS THIS THING LOOSE.

WE HAVE SEEN HIM THIS PAST WEEK OR SO BE VERY CLEAR THAT HE IS NOT GOING TO BE LEE CHATFIELD, MR. CHATFIELD WAS STRONGLY CRITICIZED PEOPLE BELOW THE RADAR ABOUT HAVING A CLOISTER GROUP AND A WHITE CHALKBOARD THAT NOBODY CAN SEE EXCEPT HE IS GROUP AND ALSO PUTTING DISTANCE BETWEEN HIMSELF AND THE COLLEAGUE IN THE STATE SENATE WHO CLEAR LU REMAINS IN TROUBLE AND COULD EMERGE AS THE KEY FACTOR HERE AND PERHAPS ERIC THE GOVERNOR OUGHT TO BE INVITING HIM TO LUNCH OR SOMETHING.

>> YEAH, I MEAN ONE OF THE BIG CRITICISMS FROM SHIRKEY THEY ARE HAVING THESE MEETINGS BUT PRESENTATIONS AND NOT CONVERSATIONS AND IT SEEMS WENTWORTH IS MORE OPEN TO BRINGING A DIFFERENT VOICE TO THE TABLE BECAUSE WE'VE HEARD WHAT SNORE SHIRKEY AND WHAT THE GOVERNOR HAS SAID TO SAY ABOUT THEM SO IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF WENTWORTH CAN BE THE DIFFERENCE MAKER BECAUSE HE DEFINITELY IS NOT LEE CHATFIELD THAT IS FOR SURE.

HE IS TRYING TO COME AT THIS JOB THIS POSITION THE WAY HE HANDLES IT MUCH DIFFERENTLY AND WE WILL SEE IF THE PAY OFF IS IN THESE NEGOTIATIONS.

>> EMILY THE GOVERNOR SAID THAT HER BUDGET DIRECTOR AND THEIR HAD BEEN SOME MEETINGS BUT NO NEGOTIATIONS, WHAT ARE THEY WAITING FOR?

>> GOOD QUESTION.

I WOULD SAY THAT A LOT OF THE POLITICAL AIR IN THIS TOWN HAS BEEN FRANKLY CENTERED AROUND MIKE SHIRKEY AND THE RESPONSE TO HIS COMMENTS RECENTLY.

YOU HAVE GROUPS LIKE THE MICHIGAN DEMOCRATIC PARTY CALLING ON HIM TO RESIGN.

YOU KNOW, THERE IS NOT A LOT OF CLARITY AROUND HOW MUCH SUPPORT HE HAS WITHIN HIS CAUCUS ESPECIALLY IF THIS IS GOING TO CONTINUE.

SO POLITICALLY THIS IS A FRAUGHT SITUATION.

YOU KNOW, LANSING TENDS TO SORT OF GRAVITATE TOWARDS THE BIG NEWS OF THE DAY.

THE GOVERNOR MADE A VALIANT ATTEMPT AT MAKING THE BUDGET THE BIG NEWS OVER THE NEXT SEVERAL WEEKS AND I DON'T THINK IT SUCCEEDED FRANKLY.

I DON'T THINK THE BUDGET IS TAKING FRONT AND CENTER LIKE IT NORMALLY WOULD BE AT THIS POINT IN THE CYCLE.

>> GO AHEAD.

>> HERE IS THE SHREWD POLITICS OF IN THE GOVERNOR CAN WAIT THIS OUT.

THE LEGISLATURE HAS TO GO HOME AND EXPLAIN WHY THERE ARE EVICTIONS HAPPENING WITH TENS OF MILLIONS OF AID TO STOP EVICTIONS IN RESIDENTIAL LOW INCOME HOUSING AND HAVE TO GO BACK HOME AND TO EXPLAIN TO SUPERINTENDENTS WHY THEY ARE SITTING ON A BILLION AND A HALF DOLLARS OF FEDERAL AID FOR SCHOOLS THAT COULD BE INJECTED INTO SCHOOLS RIGHT NOW TO HELP WITH THEIR REOPENING COSTS.

THE LEGISLATURE IS GOING TO START FEELING IT.

AND WE HAVE NOT SEEN REALLY WHAT THE EFFECTS ARE OF MIKE SHIRKEY'S YOU KNOW CONSPIRACY THEORIES AND MASOGONISTIC COMMENTS ABOUT THE GOVERNOR BUT IF SENATE REPUBLICANS START SEEING FEWER PEOPLE AT THEIR MARCH FUNDRAISERS, YOU WILL START SEEING MOVEMENT IN LEGISLATURE ON THESE BILLS.

>> EMILY LET'S TALK JUST BRIEFLY I PICKED UP SOME SOUNDINGS LAST NIGHT FROM A PRETTY GOOD SOURCE THAT THERE IS SOME CONCERN IF YOU WILL IN THE BLACK CAUCUS VIS-A-VIS ALLEGED LACK OF DIVERSITY IN IF GOVERNOR'S OFFICE AND THE NEW EXCUSE ME HOUSE MINORITY LEADER MS. LAZINSKI'S OFFICE AND CONTEMPLATING WHAT THEY SHOULD DO ABOUT THAT.

WE ARE AT A POINT IN YEAR THREE OF A GUBERNATORIAL TENURE WHERE YOU'RE KIND OF READJUSTING THINGS AS YOU MOVE INTO NEXT YEAR WHICH IS VERY IMPORTANT.

IF THIS COMES TO FRUITION IF THEY GO PUBLIC AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THIS, WHAT IMPACT DOES IT HAVE?

IT'S A SCORE WITH THE REPUBLICANS ARE HAVING INTERNAL PROBLEMS AND HEAR POTENTIALLY THE GOVERNOR COULD BE FACING SOME OF HER OWN.

>> YEAH, THAT IS REALLY SURPRISING TO ME ONLY BECAUSE AT THE OUTSET THE GOVERNOR SORT OF PRIDED HERSELF ON ASSEMBLING WHAT IS THE MOST DIVERSE CABINET IN HISTORY.

I PERSONALLY DON'T HAVE A TERRIBLY LONG HISTORY IN THIS TOWN BUT SHE DID MAKE IT A POINT I THINK TO REACH OUT AND TO SOME COMMUNITIES THAT SHE -- THAT TRADITIONALLY HAVE BEEN LEFT OUT OF THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF STATE GOVERNMENT.

I'M NOT SURE WHAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO WOULD BE WITHIN HER OFFICE ITSELF AND I HAVE NOT HEARD OF COMPLAINTS THERE BUT I THINK THE GOVERNOR HAS ALWAYS BEEN REALLY CONSCIOUS ABOUT MAKING THIS AN ISSUE AND MAKING IT SORT OF A CENTRAL PIECE OF HOW SHE WANTS TO GOVERN FRANKLY AND HER OPENING UP A DETROIT OFFICE DURING HER CAMPAIGN IN 2018 AND PUTTING SUCH A BIG EMPHASIS IN THAT CITY AND GAINING SOME LOCAL SUPPORT THERE.

BUT I REALLY THINK THAT YOU KNOW THIS IS AN IMPORTANT ISSUE TO HER.

SO IF IT DOES COME UP I THINK THAT THEY WILL HAVE GOTTEN HER ATTENTION PRETTY SWIFTLY.

>> CHAD DO YOU THINK WE ARE LOOKING FOR MORE CHURN IN THE GOVERNOR OFFICE AND MR. GORDON ENWAS THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG ARE YOU PICKING UP THOSE SOUNDINGS, SIR?

>> WELL, IT'S TYPICAL AS YOU ARE GETTING INTO YEAR THREE AND YOU ARE STARTING TO THINK ABOUT THE REELECTION THAT THERE WILL BE PEOPLE WHO START LEAVING TO GO WORK ON THE REELECTION.

OR THE SUPER PACK OR WHATEVER FORM IT TAKES.

AND THEN YOU JUST HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO BURN OUT.

I MEAN, THIS IS ALREADY AN ANY NORMAL TIME A GOVERNOR'S OFFICE POSITIONS ARE BURN OUT JOBS.

AND NOBODY REALLY EVER MAKES IT TO NOT TOO MANY MAKE IT TO FOUR OR MUCH LESS EIGHT IF YOU ARE REELECTED SO YOU NATURALLY WILL HAVE PEOPLE AND PEOPLE HAVE BEEN WORKING THEIR TAILS OFF FOR THE LAST YEAR.

AND SOME OF THEM HAVEN'T BEEN TO THE OFFICE.

THEY ARE DOING IT FROM THEIR HOUSE OR WHAT NOT.

SO IT'S YOU KNOW THE DYNAMICS ARE GOING TO CHANGE.

AND THE GOVERNOR HAS TWO GEORGE COOK AND TOMMIE STALL WORTH TWO AFRICAN/AMERICAN LEGISLATIVE LIAISONS IN THE CAPITOL EVERYDAY.

AND SHE HAS GOT A PRETTY VERSE CABINET AND SO I MEAN MUCH MORE DIVERSE THAN THE COUPLE THE PAST ADMINISTRATION FOR SURE.

AND SO YOU KNOW I'M NOT REALLY SURE WHERE ALL THIS IS COMING FROM YET BUT IN THE LEGISLATURE, IN THE HOUSE DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS THAT MIGHT BE A LOT OF THE CASE OF YOU KNOW JUST SOME FORMER LEGISLATURES WHO HAVE GOT JOBS IN SOME OF THOSE POSITIONS AND SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT YOU KNOW THOSE HIRING PRIORITIES.

LEADERS IN THE LEGISLATURE ALWAYS GET QUESTIONED ABOUT THEIR HIRING PRIORITIES.

>> I DON'T WANT TO OVER BLOW THIS STORY BUT IT IS A CONCERN AT THIS JUNCTURE THAT MAY MUSHROOM OR IT MAY BE SUBSIDED EITHER WAY WE WILL KEEP AN EYE ON IT AND LET'S CALL IN ROBERT MCCANN FROM THE EDUCATION LOBBY MR. MCCANN YOU AND YOUR COLLEAGUES HAD A NEWS CONFERENCE EARLIER THIS WEEK OTRYING TO NUDGE THE LEGISLATURE ALONG AND THE QUESTION IS DID THE NUDGING PRODUCE ANYTHING OR ARE WE STILL AT A STALEMATE?

>> I GUESS TIME WILL TELL ON THAT.

BUT AS OF TODAY WE ARE ABSOLUTELY STILL AT A STALEMATE.

AND YOU KNOW THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS THAT YOU KNOW EVERY SCHOOL OUT THERE RIGHT NOW IS FOCUSED ON WHAT ISGOING TO TAKE TO HELP STUDENTS START THE RECOVERY PROCESS WHICH IS NOT A SHORT TERM TYPE SOLUTION THAT WE ARE LOOKING FOR.

IT'S A ONE YEAR, TWO YEAR, THREE YEAR PLAN THAT THE SCHOOLS NEED TO START PLANNING TO IMPLEMENT AND TO START THAT PROCESS THEY NEED TO HAVE SOME FUNDING CERTAINTY AND WHEN WE SAW THAT STIMULUS PLAN GET PASSED IN CONGRESS BACK IN DECEMBER, THAT WAS GOOD NEWS.

IT WAS GOING TO PROVIDE SOME CERTAINTY, IT WAS GOING TO PROVIDE AN INJUNCTION OF FUNDS INTO SCHOOLS THAT DESPERATELY NEED THEM RIGHT NOW AND TO SEE THAT PROCESS GET HELD UP FOR ABSOLUTELY NO REASON IN THE LEGISLATURE NOW IS IT'S NOT ONLY FRUSTRATING TO WATCH BUT IT'S INFURIATING TO SEE HAPPEN AT A TIME WHERE SCHOOLS CAN LEAST AFFORD TO HAVE POLITICS INJECTED INTO THE PROCESS.

SO YOU KNOW WE ARE ABSOLUTELY GOING TO KEEP MAKING NOISE ABOUT THIS.

THIS MONEY NEEDS TO SHAKE LOOSE.

AND UNTIL THAT HAPPENS IT'S ONLY OUR STUDENTS THAT ARE SUFFERING FROM THAT.

>> ARE YOU GOING TO CONTACT ALL THE SUITS AROUND THE STATE AND SAY YOU BETTER CALL YOUR LOCAL LEGISLATURE AND LEAN ON HIM RIGHT NOW ARE YOU DOING THAT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THIS IS AN ALL HANDS ON DECK EFFORT.

THERE IS NOT A SUPERINTENDENT IN MICHIGAN RIGHT NOW THAT DOESN'T SEE THE NEED FOR THIS MONEY TO SHAKE FREE IMMEDIATELY BECAUSE LIKE I SAID, THEY ARE NECK DEEP IN PLANNING YOU KNOW WHETHER THEY HAVE THEIR STUDENTS BACK IN PERSON, WHETHER IT'S A HYBRID, WHETHER THEY ARE STILL IN THE PROCESS OF GETTING STUDENTS BACK, THERE IS AN ABSOLUTE NEED FOR THAT MONEY TO START FLOWING IMMEDIATELY.

OTHER STATES HAVE ALREADY SENT IT TO THEIR SCHOOLS AND THOSE DISTRICTS ARE GETTING TO WORK HELPING THEIR STUDENTS.

WE ARE PUTTING OURSELVES AT A DISADVANTAGE BY NOT APPROPRIATING THAT MONEY IMMEDIATELY.

SO THERE IS NO GOOD REASON FOR THIS TO BE TAKING PLACE AND AGAIN REGARDLESS OF WHAT AISLE YOU ARE SITTING ON WE SHOULD NOT CONSIDER THIS ACCEPTABLE.

>> ERIC.

>> ERIC YOU THERE?

>> YEAH, I'M HERE, YEAH.

>> JUMP IN, MAN.

>> OH, OKAY, SORRY.

I DIDN'T KNOW IF YOU HAD A QUESTION.

I'M WONDERING THE BIGGEST THING I'M HEARING AND WHAT GOVERNOR WHITMER HAS BEEN PUSHING IS LEARNING LOSS AND A FOURTH GRADER LAST YEAR IN MARCH HAD HER SCHOOL YEAR CUT SHORT AND HAS BEEN VIRTUAL ALL FIFTH GRADE.

HOW DOES OBVIOUSLY MORE MONEY FOR SCHOOLS IS A GOOD THING AND ALWAYS HELPS BUT HOW DOES THROWING MONEY AT THIS PROBLEM HELP A STUDENT WHO HAS BEEN MISSING OUT ON SO MUCH CATCH UP TO WHERE THEY NEED TO BE WHEN THEY GET TO SIXTH, SEVENTH, EIGHTH GRADE?

>> IT HELPS THE PROCESS START AND IS THE MOST IMPORTANT STEP RIGHT NOW I DON'T LOVE THE TERM LEARNING LOSS BECAUSE IT IMPLIES WE KNOW WHERE STUDENTS ARE AT RIGHT NOW AND WE DON'T.

WE KNOW THERE HAS BEEN A LOSS OF CLASSROOM TIME FOR EVERY STUDENT IN MICHIGAN AND THAT ITSELF HAS A TREMENDOUS IMPACT NOT ONLY ON THEIR ACADEMICINGS BUT ON THEIR SOCIAL AND EMOTIONAL STABILITY THAT IS ULTIMATELY GOING TO HELP THEM RECOVER FROM THIS PANDEMIC.

WE NEED TO HAVE A TUTORS GETTING HIRED.

WE NEED TO HAVE UP GRADES TO BUILDING SAFETY FEATURES IF WE ARE BRINGING STUDENTS BACK.

WE NEED TO BE BRINGING MORE PEOPLE INTO CLASSROOMS TO HELP WITH INDIVIDUAL STUDENT NEEDS TO EVEN UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHERE THOSE NEEDS ARE.

UNTIL WE START ASKING THOSE QUESTIONS AND ASSESSING WHERE EVERY STUDENT IS AT IN THE PROCESS WE ARE NOT GOING TO KNOW WHAT RECOVERY EVEN LOOKS LIKE YET.

SO THE LONGER THESE FUNDS GET HELD UP THE LONGER A BUDGET YOU KNOW EVEN LOOKING BEYOND THE STIMULUS PACKAGE THE LONGER IT TAKES TO GET A BUDGET DEAL FOR THE UP COMING SCHOOL YEAR THE HARDER IT IS FOR SCHOOLS TO GET IT SPENT AND START THE PROCESS.

SO IT'S AT A POINT EVERY DAY THE LEGISLATURE DELAYS GETTING THOSE FUNDS OUT IT IS GOING TO DELAY THE ABILITY TO GET THOSE RESOURCES PUT INTO PLACE TO HELP STUDENTS.

YOU KNOW, BY THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME AS THE LEGISLATURE IS TAKING.

SO, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND THE TENURE OF POLITICS IN LANSING AND UNDERSTAND WE ARE AT A LEVEL OF PARTISANSHIP WE PROBABLY HAVE NEVER SEEN BEFORE BUT WE NEED TO PUT THAT AS SIDE AND FIND A WAY TO SAY WE CAN PICK OUR BATTLES AND FIGHT THEM WHERE WE NEED TO BUT WHEN IT COMES TO THE STUDENTS AND WHEN IT COMES TO THEIR RECOVERY NEEDS RIGHT NOW WE HAVE TO PUT THEM FIRST AND THAT IS JUST THE REALITY OF IT.

>> EMILY.

>> WHAT IN YOUR MIND IS THE ABSOLUTE WORST CASE SCENARIO RIGHT NOW, IS IT THE FUNDS NEVER GET SPENT OR CAN YOU NOT REALLY SEE THAT HAPPENING?

>> I MEAN THAT IS UNFORTUNATELY A POTENTIAL HERE.

THOSE FUNDS HAVE A WINDOW IN WHICH THEY MUST BE SPENT WITHIN THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ATTACHED TO IT.

IT HAS A 15 MONTH WINDOW AND WHEN IT COMES TO SPENDING ONE TIME FUNDING LIKE THIS, IT'S NOT AS SIMPLE AS SAYING YOU KNOW AS SOON AS IT COMES IN THE DOOR THEY CAN SPEND IT.

A LOT OF THE PROJECTS THAT THIS FUNDING IS MEANT TO HELP PAY FOR ARE THINGS THAT TAKE MONTHS OF PLANNING TO EVEN IMPLEMENT.

FOR EXAMPLE, THIS FUNDING IS SUPPOSED TO HELP A NUMBER OF DISTRICTS PUT TO USE FOR IMPROVING THEIR AIR FILTRATION SYSTEM SO THAT YOU KNOW AS WE ARE BRINGING STUDENTS BACK WHETHER IT'S IN THE SUMMER OR IN THE FALL OR EVEN SOONER THAN THAT THAT THERE IS BETTER ABILITY TO MANAGE THE AIR FILTRATION SYSTEM TO KEEP STUDENTS SAFER.

DURING THIS PANDEMIC AND OF COURSE ANY FUTURE HEALTH EMERGENCIES WE ARE DEALING WITH.

THAT PROCESS IS ONE THAT WOULD REQUIRE MONTHS OF PREPARATION PUTTING IT OUT FOR A BIDDING PROCESS, YOU KNOW, FINDING A QUALIFIED PERSON TO DO THE WORK.

IT'S NOT SOMETHING YOU CAN IMPLEMENT OVERNIGHT AND SO IF DISTRICTS DON'T START GETTING THIS MONEY SOON PROJECTS LIKE THAT MAY FALL OFF THE TABLE BECAUSE THEY SIMPLY WON'T HAVE TIME TO SPEND THE MONEY IN THE WINDOW THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS PROVIDED.

SO THIS IS A VERY REAL SCENARIO RIGHT NOW THAT THESE DELAYS ARE YOU KNOW NOT ONLY CAUSING PROBLEMS IN TERMS OF STARTING THE PROCESS BUT MAY IF THEY EXTEND MUCH LONGER START CREATING PROBLEMS IN WHICH DISTRICTS MAY NOT EVEN BE ABLE TO PUT THIS FUNDING TO FULL USE IN WHICH CASE THAT'S MONEY WE ARE JUST GOING TO SEND RIGHT BACK TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

>> CHAD.

>> BOB, DOES YOUR COALITION FAVOR SUSPENDING STATE EXAMS FOR THIS YEAR AND EVEN NEXT YEAR?

WHAT IS YOUR STATUS OR STANCE ON THAT RIGHT NOW?

>> YEAH, WE CERTAINLY HAVE SUPPORTED THE EFFORTS OF THE STATE SUPERINTENDENT TO GET WAIVERS FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FROM HAVING TO PROVIDE THOSE STANDARDIZEED TESTING THIS YEAR AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS SIMPLY THAT WE KNOW THAT STUDENTS HAVE SUFFERED A DISRUPTION UNLIKE WE HAVE EVER SEEN IN THEIR LEARNING PROCESS.

THEY HAVE BEEN OUT OF CLASSROOM IN SOME CAPACITY OR ANOTHER YOU KNOW, FOR UP TO A YEAR NOW.

SO WE DON'T NEED A STANDARDIZED TEST FOR SEVERAL REASONS ONE WE DON'T HAVE THE TIME TO BE FOCUSING ON PREPPING THEM FOR A TEST RIGHT NOW.

WE NEED TO BE FOCUSING OUR EDUCATION EFFORTS ON IDENTIFYING THE STUDENT NEEDS, IDENTIFYING WHERE THEY ARE AT IN THE PROCESS AND WORKING WITH THEM INDIVIDUALLY TO START CATCHING THEM BACK UP TO WHERE WE NEED TO BE.

AND, SECONDLY, WE DON'T NEED A TEST TO CONFIRM THAT THESE STUDENTS ARE BEHIND WHERE WE HOPED THEY WOULD BE.

THERE IS NO QUESTION THEY ARE.

WE SAID SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THIS PANDEMIC THE LONGER STUDENTS ARE OUT OF THE CLASSROOM THE LONGER IT'S GOING TO TAKE TO CATCH SOME OF THEM BACK UP.

THAT'S JUST THE REALITY OF A SITUATION LIKE THIS.

SO TAKING A TEST IS NOT GOING TO BE AN ACCURATE REPRESENTATION OF NUMBER ONE OF WHERE STUDENTS ARE AT RIGHT NOW BUT, TWO, IT'S NOT GOING TO HELP IN THEIR RECOVERY.

SO WE DON'T WANT TO SPEND TIME FOCUSING OUR EDUCATION EFFORTS ON A TEST THAT IS NOT GOING TO PROVIDE INFORMATION THAT IS GOING TO BE HELPFUL RIGHT NOW.

IT'S JUST NOT IN OUR STUDENT'S BEST INTEREST.

>> MR. MCCANN REFRESH MY MEMORY HOW MANY YEARS DID YOU SPEND WORKING WITH GOVERNOR OR REPRESENTATIVE WHITMER?

>> I SERVED FOUR YEARS WITH HER DURING HER TIME AS THE SENATE DEMOCRATIC LEADER AS COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR AND THEN HER CHIEF OF STAFF FOR HER LAST COUPLE YEARS.

>> HAVE YOU BEEN APPROACHED DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY ABOUT JOINING THE ADMINISTRATION?

>> NO.

NEVER HAD THAT CONVERSATION WITH HER.

IT'S NOT SOMETHING I WAS PUSHING FOR.

I'M CERTAINLY APPRECIATIVE OF THE GOVERNOR AND SUPPORTER OF THIS GOVERNOR, BUT YOU KNOW, I'M HAPPY WITH THE ROLE I'M IN, TIM.

>> IF YOU WERE ADVISING MR. SHIRKEY HOW TO DEAL WITH THIS PROBLEM WITH THE GOVERNOR WHOM YOU KNOW, WHAT WOULD YOUR ADVICE BE?

>> I THINK MOST IMPORTANTLY IS DON'T THINK THAT SHE IS SOMEONE YOU CAN PUSH AROUND.

YOU KNOW, I THINK CHAD WAS TALKING ABOUT EARLIER ON THE SHOW THIS BIZARRE RHETORIC COMING FROM HIS I WAS GOING TO SAY HIS OFFICE BUT IT'S NOT FROM HIS OFFICE IT'S FROM HIM.

YOU KNOW, ABOUT PHYSICAL VIOLENCE AGAINST HER AND DESIRE TO FISTFIGHT HER ON THE CAPITOL LAWN.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT IN THE WORLD HE THINKS THAT'S GOING TO ACCOMPLISH.

IN TERMS OF ADVANCING ANY KIND OF AN AGENDA OR THINKING THAT SHE IS GOING TO BACK DOWN TO A THREAT LIKE THAT.

THAT IS A WILD MISS CALCULATION OF BOTH HER PERSONALLY, HER LEADERSHIP STYLE BUT ALSO JUST REALITY.

I MEAN THAT IS JUST NOT A STATEMENT THAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO ANYBODY.

SO I DON'T KNOW WHERE HIS HEAD IS AT RIGHT NOW.

I WOULDN'T PROFESS TO BE ABLE TO EXPLAIN SOME OF HIS COMMENTS, BUT IF HE THINKS THAT THEY ARE GOING TO WORK WITH THIS GOVERNOR I THINK HE IS JUST COMPLETELY MISS CALCULATING THAT.

>> ARE YOU FEARFUL THAT THIS BREAK DOWN IN THE RELATIONSHIP COULD KILL PART OR ALL OF YOUR FIVE BILLION PACKAGE, IS IT THAT IMPORTANT AND IS IT PUTS IT MORE AT RISK?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

YOU KNOW, I THINK ALL OF US IN THIS CONVERSATION HAVE BEEN AROUND LANSING LONG ENOUGH TO LOOK AT THIS CURRENT SITUATION AND SAY I THINK WITH A LEVEL OF CONFIDENCE THAT WE HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS.

I HAVE CERTAINLY NEVER SEEN PARTISANSHIP IN LANSING REACH THIS LEVEL OF ANIMOSITY, REACH THIS LEVEL OF DISTRUST AND JUST THE REALITY THAT POLITICS AND PARTISANSHIP SEEM TO JUST DOMINATE THE EVERY BIT OF ENERGY IN AND AROUND THE CAPITOL.

SO THERE IS LITTLE SPACE RIGHT NOW TO SEE YOU KNOW EVEN THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL WORK OF THE LEGISLATURE GETTING DONE.

LITERALLY THEY HAVE ONE JOB TO DO.

IN TERMS OF THIS FEDERAL FUNDING THAT CAME TO MICHIGAN.

AND IT'S PASSED A BILL THAT SIMPLY APPROPRIATES IT AND WE CAN'T EVEN GET THAT DONE WITHOUT POLITICS BEING INJECTED INTO IT AND UNRELATED ISSUES DEALING WITH PARTISAN YOU KNOW POWER STRUGGLES GETTING INJECTED INTO THAT AND THAT HAS TO STOP.

LIKE I GET THE FACT THAT POLITICS ARE ALWAYS A PART OF THESE CONVERSATIONS, BUT IF AT THE END OF THE DAY WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THE MOST FUNDAMENTALS OF GOVERNMENT AND A CONSTITUTIONAL OBLIGATION THAT LEGISLATURE HAS TO SUPPORT EDUCATION AND SCHOOLS HAVE THE FUNDING THEY NEED TO OPERATE AND IF WE ARE NOT EVEN ABLE TO DO THAT BECAUSE OF PARTISANSHIP THEN WE ARE FAILING AS A GOVERNMENT, WE ARE FAILING AS A GROUP OF LEADERS IN DOING WHAT OUR STATE NEEDS DONE.

AND I THINK WE JUST HAVE TO FIND A WAY AROUND THAT.

>> ALL RIGHT WILL YOU HANG AROUND A LITTLE BIT FOR AN OVER TIME SEGMENT?

>> OF COURSE.

>> SURE YOU HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO, RIGHT?

GO TO WKAR.ORG FOR MORE OF OUR CONVERSATION WITH MR. MCCANN AND OUR GREAT PANEL AND TAKE A LOOK AT THE CLOSED CREDITS BEFORE YOU DO AND SEE YOU ON THE OTHER SIDE.

PRODUCTION OF OFF THE RECORD IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY THE FOLLOWING, BUSINESS LEADERS FOR MICHIGAN HAS A STRATEGIC PLAN TO MAKE MICHIGAN A TOP TEN STATE IN THE NATION FOR JOBS, PERSONAL INCOME AND A HEALTHY ECONOMY LEARN MORE AT MICHIGAN ROAD TO TOP TEN.COM.

FOR MORE OFF THE RECORD VISIT WKAR.ORG MICHIGAN PUBLIC TELEVISION STATIONS HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO THE PRODUCTION COSTS OF OFF THE RECORD WITH TIM SKUBICK.

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