♪ ♪ WELCOME BACK TO OTR OUR GUEST THIS WEEK IS THE LAWYER WHO SUED THE GOVERNOR TO REOPEN SPORTS ACROSS THE STATE NAMED PETER RUDDELL THE LEAD STORY THE GOVERNOR HAS DONE JUST THAT STARTING MONDAY ON THE OTR PANEL CHAD LIVENGOOD EMILY LAWLER AND ABIGAIL SINSKY.

SIT IN WITH US AS WE GET THE INSIDE OUT OFF THE RECORD.

PRODUCTION OF OFF THE RECORD IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY THE FOLLOWING, BUSINESS LEADERS FOR MICHIGAN HAS A STRATEGIC PLAN TO MAKE MICHIGAN A TOP TEN STATE IN THE NATION FOR JOBS, PERSONAL INCOME AND A HEALTHY ECONOMY LEARN MORE AT MICHIGAN ROAD TO TOP TEN.COM.

AND NOW THIS EDITION OF OFF THE RECORD WITH TIM SKUBICK.

♪ ♪ WELCOME BACK TO OFF THE RECORD ZOOM ADDITION LOTS GOING ON AND LET'S SAY GOOD MORNING TO OUR PANEL IF THEY WILL MAGICALLY APPEAR.

>> GOOD MORNING.

>> NICE TO HAVE YOU ALL ON BOARD ON THIS WINTRY DAY AND THE LEAD STORY THIS WEEK EVERYBODY KNOWS WAS COMING ON MONDAY SPORTS IS BACK.

THE GOVERNOR HAS MADE A DECISION, HERE IS WHAT SHE TOLD US THIS WEEK.

>> [ CHEERS ] HERE IS SOMETHING YOU HAVE NOT HEARD OR SEEN IN MONTHS HIGH SCHOOL B BALL WILL BE BACK ON THE COURTS STARTING WITH PRACTICE ON MONDAY ALONG WITH OTHER WITHIN TEAR SPORTS SO SAYS GOVERNOR GRETCHEN WHITMER LOOKING AT IMPROVING COVID-19 NUMBERS IN MICHIGAN FROM THE CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICES AND SAY THE NUMBERS JUSTIFY THE DECISION.

DETROIT TRAVERSE CITY AND UPPER PENINSULA ARE LESS THAN 150 CASES PER MILLION PEOPLE.

OUR TEST POSITIVITY RATE IS ALSO DECLINING AND IS NOW AT 4.9%.

THAT IS THE LOWEST IT HAS BEEN SINCE MID OCTOBER.

THE PERCENT OF BEDS THAT ARE UTILIZED BUT I PATIENTS WITH COVID-19 IS STEADILY DECLINING AS WELL.

AND IS NOW AT 6.6%.

SO OVER ALL I'M PLEASED.

>> ALSO PLEASED ARE THOSE STUDENT ATHLETES THEIR PARENTS AND COACHES WHO SUED THE GOVERNOR THIS WEEK TO OPEN UP SPORTS SOONER THAN FEBRUARY 21ST.

THE GOVERNOR'S ORIGINAL DATE.

THE GOVERNOR DID CHANGE HER MIND BUT INSISTS THE PROTESTING GRIPES HAD ZERO IMPACT ON HER DECISION.

>> I HAVE BEEN VERY CLEAR THROUGH THIS CRISIS WE WILL FOLLOW THE SCIENCE AND THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE BEEN DOING BUT AS FOR EVENTS THAT HAVE HAPPENED THAT IS NOT WHAT DRIVES DECISIONS IN MY ADMINISTRATION.

PERSONS APPLAUD THE SPORTS DECISION ON THE LEGISLATIVE FRONT THERE IS NO REASON TO APPLAUD THAT IS BECAUSE THE GOVERNOR AND REPUBLICAN LEADERS ARE AT ODDS OVER HOW TO SPEND FIVE BILLION DOLLARS IN FEDERAL COVID AID.

THE GOVERNOR FEARS IF THERE IS NO AGREEMENT OTHER STATES WILL GET A HEAD START ON STOPPING THE VIRUS.

SO ARE THEY AT LEAST TALKING?

>> OH, YEAH, THERE IS ALL SORTS OF TALKS GOING ON TIM.

THAT IS PRECISELY WHY THIS IS SO IMPORTANT THAT THESE RESOURCES THAT HAVE BEEN GIVEN TO US WE GET THEM DEPLOYED SO THAT WE CAN KEEP THIS TRAJECTORY THAT WE ARE ON GOING AND GET BACK TO NORMALCY AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.

>> AND WHILE IT MAY FEEL JUST A LITTLE BIT NORMAL WITH HIGH SCHOOL SPORTS BACK ON, THE GOVERNOR WARNS WE ARE NOT TOTALLY NORMAL YET.

ALL RIGHT CHAD THE QUESTION IN TOWN IS DID SHE CAVE?

>> WELL, SHE SAYS THAT SHE DIDN'T.

BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IS THE FACTOR THAT GOES INTO THESE DECISION MAKINGS.

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THIS WEEK AND LAST WEEK.

LAST WEEK THERE WAS 7% OF COVID PATIENTS OCCUPYING 7% OF HOSPITAL BEDS.

THIS WEEK IT'S 6.5 IS THERE SOME MAGIC NUMBER IN BETWEEN THERE AND HALF A PERCENTAGE POINT I'M NOT SURE BUT WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE BARS REOPENING ON MONDAY AND WAITING ANOTHER WEEK WHEN SHE INITIALLY SAID IT WAS GOING TO BE THREE MORE WEEKS OF NO CONTACT FOR HIGH SCHOOL SPORTS.

SO MOST PEOPLE LOOK AT THIS AND SAY THAT SHE CAVED.

BUT YOU KNOW WE HAVE TO KEEP ASKING THE GOVERNOR WHAT IS THE ACTUAL METRICS THAT WE HAVE TO HIT TO OPEN AND CLOSE OR YOU KNOW GO BACK IN THE GROUND HOG'S HOLE.

>> EMILY WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> YEAH, I THINK CHAD'S POINT IS A GOOD ONE.

YOU KNOW, THE GOVERNOR HAS CONSISTENTLY SAID SHE IS RELYING ON SCIENCE AND METRICS WITHOUT EXACTLY OUTLINING WHAT THOSE MIGHT BE.

SO OTHER STATES HAVE ESTABLISHED A PRETTY CLEAR THRESHOLD PERCENTAGES, A FORMULA OF SORTS FOR WHEN THINGS CAN OPEN, WHEN THINGS WOULD CLOSE, MICHIGAN HAS NOT DONE THAT SO IT'S NOT EXACTLY CLEAR WHERE THESE ACTIONS ARE ROOTED.

>> ABIGAIL.

>> YEAH, I THINK EMILY BRINGS UP A GOOD POINT THAT YOU KNOW, WE HAVE BEEN ASKING ABOUT THIS FOR A WHILE.

AND WE HAVE SEEN YOU KNOW EARLY ON IN THE PANDEMIC WE USED TO SEE MODELING FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN AND HEAR MORE ABOUT THOSE METRICS BUT RECENTLY IN CONVERSATIONS WITH REPORTERS THE GOVERNOR HAS DEFENDED HER DECISION OF BEING A LITTLE BIT LESS THAN TRANSPARENT ABOUT SOME OF THE METRICS BEING USED TO MAKE DECISIONS LIKE THIS ONE ON WINTER CONTACT SPORTS BECAUSE SHE DOESN'T WANT TO BE WED TO THOSE NUMBERS AND IT HAS NOT WORKED OUT FOR SOME STATES.

THAT'S BEEN HER DEFENSE.

BUT IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, A SITUATION LIKE WINTER CONTACT SPORTS LIKE THIS, I THINK THE CASE OF LET THEM PLAY BRINGING UP, YOU KNOW, WHY SHOULD HIGH SCHOOLERS BE ALLOWED TO GO TO SHOPPING MALLS OR RESTAURANTS AND NOT PLAY SPORTS.

THAT IS A REALLY GREAT QUESTION WHEN WE DON'T KNOW THE METRICS THAT ARE BEING LOOKED AT TO MAKE THESE KINDS OF DECISIONS.

>> SO CHAD THE QUESTION IS THE REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN BELLY ACHING FOR WEEKS FOR THE GOVERNOR TO DO SOMETHING TO REOPEN THE ECONOMY AND SHE HAS DONE THAT NOW WITH THE BARS TO A DEGREE AND THE RESTAURANTS AND NOW THE SPORTS ARE BACK.

IS SHE COMING UP, WITH ENOUGH TO GET THEM TO THE TABLE TO NEGOTIATE A DEAL ON THIS COVID MONEY WHICH IS SITTING THERE RIGHT NOW?

>> WELL, NOBODY IS GOING TO JUST LET FIVE BILLION DOLLARS NOT GET SPENT.

I MEAN EVEN THE HOUSE REPUBLICAN PLAN SPENDS THREE BILLION UP FRONT AND SOME STATE AID AS WELL.

STATE, STATE SURPLUS.

BUT THEY ARE GOING TO I MEAN YES THEY ARE GOING TO GET TO THE TABLE.

WE ARE GOING TO GET MORE ACTION HERE NEXT WEEK WHEN THE GOVERNOR ROLLS OUT HER FISCAL 22 BUDGET YEAR PLAN.

SO AND THERE WILL BE ALL KINDS OF NEW PROPOSALS I IMAGINE THAT GO ALONG WITH THAT AND ADD NEW DYNAMICS TO IT AND THESE THINGS WILL YOU KNOW THEY USUALLY GET TOGETHER THOUGH THE URGENCY HERE IS THAT THERE IS MONEY TO SPEND AND THERE IS AN ECONOMY THAT IS JUST KIND OF POSSIBLY TEETERING ON THE EDGE HERE IN MANY WAYS.

LET'S NOT FORGET I MEAN YES BARS RESTAURANTS REOPEN THIS WEEK BUT IN DECEMBER THERE WERE 200,000 FEWER RESTAURANT HOSPITALITY WORKERS IN MICHIGAN THAN THE YEAR BEFORE THAT.

THAT IS A JOB LOSS FOR SINGLE INDUSTRY THAT WE HAVE NOT SEEN, WE NEVER EVEN SAW IN ONE SINGLE SWOOP DURING THE GREAT RECESSION IN THE TEN-YEAR SINGLE STATE RECESSION THAT WE SUFFERED.

SO THESE ARE REAL SUFFERING GOING ON OUT THERE RIGHT NOW AND THAT IS PUTTING PRESSURE ON ALL SITES HERE TO GET TO THE TABLE.

>> EMILY THE MICHIGAN HOUSE THIS WEEK PASSED THEIR PLAN WITHOUT INPUT FROM THE GOVERNOR.

IS THAT A FOREBEARER OF THINGS TO COME?

SHE DID TELL US YESTERDAY THERE WERE LOTS OF TALKS GOING ON AS WE HEARD IN THAT SOUND BITE ARE WE TO BELIEVE THESE FOLKS WILL GET A COMPROMISE ON THIS?

>> I THINK CHAD IS RIGHT, I DON'T THINK ANYONE COULD REALLY AFFORD POLITICALLY TO LET THESE DOLLARS SIT ON THE TABLE OR GIVE THEM BACK TO THE FEDS IN ANY WAY.

OBVIOUSLY MICHIGAN COULD USE THIS MONEY FOR SOME OF OUR COVID RECOVERY EFFORTS.

BUT YOU KNOW THE CAUSM BETWEEN THE GOVERNOR AND REPUBLICANS IN THE LEGISLATURE RIGHT NOW IS REALLY ABOUT HER CONTROL, RIGHT?

SO THEY BOTH WANT TO SPEND THE MONEY.

THE REPUBLICANS JUST WANT TO SHIFT SOME OF THAT CONTROL TO LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN TERMS OF OPENING AND CLOSING THINGS LIKE SCHOOLS AND SPORTS AND I WOULD SAY THAT THAT'S BEEN A GOAL OF THEIRS FOR A LONG TIME.

IT'S NOT REALLY OUT OF THE BLUE.

WHAT IS DIFFERENT IS JUST THAT THEY ARE CONNECTING IT TO THE MONEY AT THIS POINT.

>> SO ABIGAIL THE NUMBERS THAT THE GOVERNOR'S CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER SHARED WITH US APPEAR TO BE VERY GOOD BUT "X FACTOR" IS THIS VARIANT AND THIS IS A TICKING TIME BOMB IS IT NOT?

>> YEAH AND WE HAVE HEARD YOU KNOW IT IS KIND OF THE CLASSIC CASE OF WHAT WE HAD THROUGHOUT THIS ENTIRE PANDEMIC IS WE DON'T KNOW A LOT ABOUT THESE NEW VARIANTS OR NEW FACTORS OF THIS PANDEMIC WHEN THEY FIRST EMERGED.

SO WE'VE HEARD CONSTANTLY FROM THE SCIENTISTS AND PUBLIC HEALTH OFFICIALS WHO STUDY THIS, THIS IS A MORE CONTAGIOUS VARIANT.

AND YOU KNOW IN PLACES LIKE WASHTENAW COUNTY WHERE THERE IS A NEW VARIANT OF COVID-19.

THEY HAVE SOMETHING LIKE 28 CASES DR. KALDUHN SAID YESTERDAY WHICH COMPLETELY SHUTTERED THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN ATHLETICS DEPARTMENT AND THEY HAVE ASKED THEIR STUDENTS TO KIND OF HAVE A ONCE AGAIN LOCK DOWN FOR ANOTHER TWO WEEKS AND KIND OF SHELTER IN PLACE ONCE MORE.

SO I DON'T KNOW THAT WE HAVE SEEN THE COMMUNITY SPREAD.

BUT THAT'S KIND OF WHAT THE GOVERNOR AND DR. J HAVE BEEN SAYING THIS ENTIRE TIME THAT WE DON'T KNOW HOW MANY LIVES ARE SAVED, HOW MANY CASES ARE STOPPED, WHEN YOU INTRODUCE NEW FACTORS IN TO THE MIX LIKE ANOTHER COVID VARIANT SO THERE IS A LOT OF GUESSWORK STILL.

>> CHAD LET'S TURN THE PAGE LAURA COX VERSUS RON WISER THIS IS DIRTY LAUNDRY WE WILL PUT ON OFF THE RECORD THE CURRENT REPUBLICAN CHAIR IS ACCUSING THE FORMER REPUBLICAN CHAIR OF DOING WHAT?

>> USING RON WISER MULTI MILLIONAIRE REAL ESTATE MOGUL FROM ANN ARBOR, TAKING 200,000 OF ADMINISTRATIVE TUNDZ THIS IS THE CORPORATE SLUSH, FUNDS THAT BOTH PARTIES GET TO HAVE WHERE CORPORATIONS AND UNIONS AND INDIVIDUALS CAN GET UNLIMITED AMOUNT OF MONEY AND USE IT FOR ANY KIND OF NONELECTION AIRING TYPE PURPOSE PAY CONSULTS AND IT'S CONSULTS CASH FUND AND ALLEGING THAT RON WISER TOOK 200,000 AND PAID TO SHELBY TOWNSHIP CLERK STAND GRAT TO GET HIM TO DROP OUT OF THE 2018 SECRETARY OF STATE'S PRIMARY AGAINST MARY TEDDER-LANG SO SHE COULD RUN UNOPPOSED AND ONE WOMAN ON THE BALLOT AGAINST THE ALL WOMAN SLATE ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE.

THIS IS AN EXPLOSIVE ALLEGATION AND SAID THEY HAD THIS INVESTIGATED AND HAVE THIS REPORT COMPILED BY SOME ATTORNEYS AT WARNER, NORCROSS & JUDD AND IT ESSENTIALLY LAYS OUT PAYMENTS OVER A PERIOD OF 7 OR 8 MONTHS FROM THE END OF 2018, STARTING JUST AFTER HE DROPPED OUT OF THE RACE.

JUST YOU KNOW, A WEEK OR TWO BEFORE THE CONVENTION IN 2018.

AUGUST 2018.

GOT THESE PAYMENTS ALL THE WAY UNTIL JUST A FEW DAYS BEFORE LAURA COX TOOK OFFICE AS THE NEW CHAIR IN FEBRUARY OF 2019.

RON WISER IS UNDER FIRE.

I WROTE ABOUT HOW HE IS FACING 11TH HOUR CRISIS RIGHT NOW IN HIS BID TO BE COME A THIRD TERM AS CHAIRMAN OF THE PARTY WHERE HE WAS GOING TO HAVE A CAKE WALK ELECTION ON SATURDAY, THIS VIRTUAL CONVENTION BUT LAURA COX WAS NEVER TAKEN OFF THE BALLOT AND NOW SHE DECLARED HERSELF BACK THIS AND WANT TO BE A TEMPORARY CHAIR FOR A FEW MONTHS AND THEN LET THE STATE PARTY COMMITTEE THE 110 MEMBER GROUP ESSENTIALLY PICK A NEW CHAIR THEMSELVES.

I CANNOT SEE THAT GOING OVER WITH THE GRASS ROOTS ACTIVISTS OF THIS PARTY THAT ARE RUNNING THIS PARTY.

OF COURSE WISER TENDENCY IS UNDER FIRE BECAUSE COCHAIR IS SEAN MADDOCK THE CONSERVATIVE POLITICAL ACTIVIST FROM WESTERN OAKLAND COUNTY WHO WAS AT THE RALLY THE DAY BEFORE OR SPOKE AT A RALLY THE DAY BEFORE THE JANUARY 6TH INSURRECTION OF THE U.S. CAPITOL.

>> THIS IS A PROBABLY NOT ONLY FROM THE STANDPOINT OF INTER PARTY FEUD BUT JOCELYN BENSON THE SECRETARY OF STATE HAS GOTTEN THIS COMPLAINT FROM MS. COX AND YOU COULD SAY SHE MIGHT BUMP THIS UP TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND NOW WE HAVE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL INVESTIGATING THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

IF THAT'S A POSSIBILITY, THAT'S A STORY, ISN'T IT?

>> WELL, CERTAINLY.

THAT WOULD BE A STORY.

AND JUST SEEMS SORT OF RARE.

I DON'T RECALL VERY MANY INSTANCES OF YOU KNOW PARTIES SORT OF TURNING AGAINST THEMSELVES TO THE EXTENT THEY ARE TURNING EACH OTHER IN I GUESS TO THE AUTHORITIES.

OR TO THE AT LEAST CAMPAIGN FINANCE AUTHORITIES IN THIS CASE.

AND IT SEEMS LIKE YOU KNOW THIS PARTY IN FIGHTING I THINK EVERYONE KIND OF EXPECTED TENSION BETWEEN YOU KNOW, THE MORE GRASS ROOTS TRUMP SIDE OF THE PARTY VERSUS REPUBLICANS WHO WERE SORT OF READY TO MOVE ON FROM TRUMP.

THAT IS NOT THE FIGHT HERE.

FRANKLY.

TWO WEEKS AGO WE MIGHT HAVE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE.

CHAD MENTIONED THAT SHOWN MADDOCK IS ON THE TICKET WITH RON WISER AND THAT LOOKED LIKE A BIT OF A CONTROVERSY A COUPLE WEEKS AGO.

THAT IS TAME IN COMPARISON TO WHAT WE ARE SEEING NOW.

>> SEE HOW IT WORKS OUT THIS WEEKEND EITHER MR. WISER WILL BE CHAIR OR NOT AND EITHER WAY WE HAVE A STORY AND HAVE A STORY CALLING IN THE ATTORNEY IN TOWN WHO SUED THE GOVERNOR TO REOPEN SPORTS.

AND THERE HE IS.

PETER WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

HOW YOU DOING?

>> GREAT THANKS FOR HAVING ME, TIM.

>> SO HAVE YOU DROPPED YOUR LAWSUIT?

>> WE HAVE NOT DROPPED OUR LAWSUIT YET.

WE CAN'T DROP OUR LAWSUIT -- WE NEED TO SEE THIS FEBRUARY 7TH INTERIM GUIDANCE THAT IS SEEMINGLY ALIEU LLUSIVE AND STUDENTS NEED TO TAKE IN ORDER TO COMPETE AND WE HAVE NOT SEEN IT.

>> IF YOU READ SOMETHING IN THERE YOU DON'T LIKE YOU WILL CONTINUE TO SUE HER?

>> WE WILL HAVE TO SEE WHAT IT IS AND WE ARE NOT SEEING THE GOVERNOR BUT THE STATE HEALTH DIRECTOR WHO ISSUED THE ORDER.

>> SAME DIFFERENCE.

>> SO WE HAVE TO SEE WHAT IS IN THAT DOCUMENT BEFORE WE MAKE THE FINAL DECISION ON WHETHER WE ARE GOING TO DISMISS THE LAWSUIT OR PROCEED.

>> ABIGAIL?

>> YEAH, ONE OF MY QUESTIONS IS KIND OF ABOUT THE INTERIM GUIDANCE REALLY TESTING IN THIS WINTER PILOT PROGRAM THAT WE SAW OVER 6,000 STUDENTS TESTING 202 SCHOOLS, THERE WERE 74 POSITIVE INDIVIDUALS, BUT AS FAR AS WHO IS PROVIDING THE TEST IS THIS GOING TO BE THE HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION?

IS THIS GOING TO BE THE STATE?

WHO IS GOING TO INCUR THOSE COSTS?

HAVE YOU HAD ANY CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THAT?

>> I'VE HAD NO DIRECT CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THAT WHATSOEVER.

I BELIEVE THE LEGISLATURE YESTERDAY IN ONE OF THEIR APPROPRIATIONS BILL APPROPRIATED SOME DOLLARS FOR IT AND AT THE PRESS CONFERENCE EITHER DIRECTOR OR THE GOVERNOR ALLUDED TO THE STATE WOULD PROVIDE THE TEST AS THEY REQUIRE, AS THEY REQUIRE THEM.

BUT WE HAVE NOT SEEN THE SPECIFICS WHICH IS PART OF THE REASON WE CANNOT DISMISS THE LAWSUIT YET.

>> EMILY.

>> SO SORT OF A BROAD QUESTION HERE BUT A LOT OF THE FLASH POINTS THAT WE'VE SEEN AROUND GOVERNOR'S ORDERS THEN THE MDHHS ORDERS HAVE BEEN AROUND ECONOMIC CONSTRAINTS RIGHT.

WE SAW BARBER SHOPS AND GYMS AND RESTAURANTS ALL BE YOU KNOW UPSET ABOUT SOME OF THE RESTRICTIONS AND CLOSURES.

HOW DID WE LAND ON HIGH SCHOOL SPORTS AS LIKE THE FLASH POINT OF THE CORONAVIRUS RESTRICTIONS RIGHT NOW?

WHAT MAKES THAT SO IMPORTANT TO PEOPLE?

>> SO, YOU KNOW, THAT IS A FANTASTIC QUESTION EMILY.

YOU KNOW IN THE LAST WEEK AND I'VE ONLY BEEN WORKING ON THIS ISSUE FOR ABOUT 13 DAYS.

I'VE TALKED TO SO MANY PARENTS WHO ARE FRANKLY FREIGHTENED FOR THE FUTURE OF THEIR CHILDREN AND THEIR FUTURE EMOTIONAL AND MENTAL WELL-BEING AND I THINK THIS CUT HOME CLOSER THAN ANY OF THE ECONOMIC ISSUES.

YOU KNOW, THERE IS THIS WHOLE ADAGE I HAVE BEEN TOLD MANY TIMES NEVER GET BETWEEN AN MAMA BEAR AND HER CUB AND IN SOME RESPECTS I THINK THIS PROHIBITION ON CONTACT SPORTS, INDOOR SPORTS REALLY THE STATE HEALTH DEPARTMENT DID THAT.

>> PETER, CAN YOU TAKE US IN TO YOUR 13 DAYS OF TALKS WITH DHHS.

AND WHAT IS BEHIND IT'S OKAY TO OPEN THE BARS AS EMILY NOTED AND TEENAGERS CAN WALK FREELY AND HANG OUT IN SHOPPING MALLS BUT THEY CAN'T PLAY HOCKEY AND BASKETBALL AND OTHER CONTACT SPORTS, CHEERLEADING TOO.

>> SO, CHAD YOU BROKE UP ON ME A LITTLE BIT THERE SO I'M GOING TO ASSUME I KNOW YOUR QUESTION AND JUST KEEP GOING.

SO YOU KNOW WE HAD GREAT TALKS UP UNTIL THE MOMENT IN TIME WHEN WE FILED THE LAWSUIT THEN OUR TALKS WERE EXCLUSIVELY WITH THE STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THIS IS A COMPLICATED ISSUE AND I THINK UNFORTUNATELY THIS WAS A BOMB THAT WAS LEFT ON DIRECTOR KURTEL'S DESK BY HER PREDECESSOR.

AS WE ALLUDED TO IN OUR FILINGS AND PUBLIC STATEMENTS 38 OTHER STATES ALLOW THE ACTIVITIES INCLUDING OUR SURROUNDING STATES AS I THINK EITHER EMILY OR ABIGAIL ALLUDED TO THE TESTING REGIME IN THE FALL SHOWED 99.8 NEGATIVE RATE SO TRANSMISSION OF STUDENT ATHLETES IS REALLY QUITE LOW.

WE THINK THAT RIGHT THE GOVERNOR AND HER TEAM AS I SAID IN OTHER SETTINGS HAS HAD A FANTASTIC GOAL AND A GOAL OF REDUCING THE TRANSMISSION OF COVID.

THE ISSUE THAT MANY OF OUR PARENTS STUDENT ATHLETES AND ADMINISTRATORS HAVE IS THE UNINTENDED OF EMOTIONAL AND MENTAL HEALTH OF THESE STUDENT ATHLETES.

>> BUT THE NUB OF THE GOVERNOR'S ARGUMENT IS SHE IS ABLE SAVING LIVES WERE YOU GOING TO CHALLENGE THAT IN A LAWSUIT?

>> WE WERE NOT GOING TO CHALLENGE SAVING LIVES ARGUMENT RIGHT WE WERE GOING TO CHALLENGE THE ISSUE OF THE RIGHT TO EDUCATION, THE AGE DISCRIMINATION OF STUDENT ATHLETES AND HIGH SCHOOL VERSUS THOSE IN COLLEGE AND THE PROS AND WE WERE GOING TO CHALLENGE THE MECHANISM BY WHICH THIS ORDER AND THE INTERIM GUIDANCE WAS ISSUED AND I USE IT IN THE PAST TENSE TIM BUT THE LAWSUIT IS STILL OUT THERE.

>> I UNDERSTAND SO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE WITNESS MERADMINISTRATION OVER REACTED TO THIS BY SHUTTING DOWN THESE SPORTS IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT COUNSELOR?

>> I THINK THAT THE ORIGINAL ORDER PRIOR TO JANUARY 22ND WHICH ALLOWED WINTER SPORTS TO BEGIN RESUMPTION ON FEBRUARY 1ST WAS FAIR AND APPROPRIATE.

DELAYING IT BY THREE WEEKS WITHOUT ANY REASONABLE EXPLANATION WAS UNWARRANTED FROM THE PREVIOUS HEALTH DIRECTOR.

>> WHAT IS YOUR PROOF THAT THE MENTAL HEALTH OF STUDENTS IS AFFECTED?

IT'S SPECULATION, IS IT NOT?

THAT COUNSEL FOR THE ATTORNEY GENERAL MIGHT ARGUE AGAINST YOU?

>> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A WHOLE HOST OF EXPERTS AND PARENTS THAT ARE WILLING TO COME IN AND TESTIFY IF NECESSARY ON THE MENTAL HEALTH OF THE STUDENT ATHLETES.

I THINK THE EVIDENCE IS PRETTY OVERWHELMING AND FRANKLY THE GOVERNOR'S SPEAKER AT HER PRESS CONFERENCE YESTERDAY, THE SECOND DOCTOR FROM I THINK IHA CONFIRMED EVERYTHING WE HAD BEEN SAYING.

>> BUT THERE ARE OTHERS IN THE HEALTH COMMUNITY THAT HAVE AGREED WITH THE GOVERNOR ALL ALONG UP TO THIS POINT, IS THAT NOT TRUE AS WELL?

>> THOSE OTHERS IN THE HEALTH COMMUNITY HAVE AGREED WITH THE GOVERNOR ON COVID.

AND HAVE CONFIRMED HER SINGULAR GOAL OF REDUCING COVID TRANSMISSION.

>> ABIGAIL.

>> YOU KNOW, PENDING THE RESUMPTION OR I GUESS BEGINNING OF WINTER CONTACT SPORTS ON MONDAY, YOU NOTED THE DISPARITY BETWEEN COLLEGE AND PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES IN MICHIGAN.

AND HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETES.

BUT THOSE PROGRAMS YOU KNOW WHEN THEY HAVE PEOPLE TEST POSITIVE, THEY HAVE SHUT DOWN TEMPORARILY AND WE HAVE SEEN UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN ATHLETICS HALT AND 15 PLAYERS TESTED POSITIVE A WHILE AGO AT MICHIGAN STATE AS WELL.

WHAT KIND OF SITUATION IS THE STATE GOING TO BE IN NOW TO HALT OR PAUSE ATHLETIC SEASONS IF THERE IS OUT BREAKS IN SMALLER AREAS OR JUST SELECT LOCATIONS OF THE STATE AND NOT, YOU KNOW, BLANKET STATEWIDE ATHLETICS?

>> YOU KNOW I THINK THE STATE PUBLIC HEALTH CODE ALLOWS LOCAL HEALTH DIRECTORS TO DO EXACTLY WHAT YOU DESCRIBED.

AND I THINK THE LEGISLATURE YOU KNOW ONE OF THE BILLS THEY PASSED IN THE HOUSE THIS WEEK ALLOWS JUST THAT, LOCAL HEALTH DIRECTORS WHEN THERE ARE OUT BREAKS TO TAKE THE MEASURES NECESSARY TO CONTAIN THOSE OUT BREAKS IN THE SPECIFIC GEOGRAPHIC AREAS AND THINK IT CAN BE MANAGED AND SHOULD BE.

>> EMILY.

>> I GUESS PART OF THE LAW THAT YOU BROUGHT UP THOUGH WOULD REQUIRE THOSE HEALTH DIRECTORS IF THE SENATE PASSES A SIMILAR VERSION TO USE METRICS SET BY THE MICHIGAN LEGISLATURE SO IN THE CASE OF A COUNTY LIKE WASHTENAW RIGHT NOW WHICH HAS 28 CASES OF THIS NEW VARIANT, THEY WOULDN'T MEET METRICS TO CLOSE ANYTHING DOWN, WHAT ABOUT CASES LIKE THAT?

>> SO YOU KNOW AGAIN THAT IS A BILL THAT PASSED THE HOUSE, THE GOVERNOR WILL HAVE TO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SIGN IT AND WOULDN'T JUST BE THE LEGISLATURE IT WOULD BE BIPARTISAN BY CAMERAL PROCESS SO IF THOSE METRICS ARE NOT THE RIGHT ONES YOU KNOW I THINK THE GOVERNOR AND HER TEAM AND OTHER HEALTH EXPERTS WOULD HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO WEIGH IN BEFORE THEY ARE ENACTED.

>> EMILY.

>> HOW MUCH TENSION IS THERE AS YOU ARE TALKING TO THESE PARENTS ABOUT SORT OF THE DIFFERENCE OR THE TRADEOFF BETWEEN ACADEMICS AND ATHLETICS BECAUSE I TALKED TO FOR INSTANCE A KENT COUNTY HEALTH OFFICIAL WHO HAS OUTLINED THAT THEY KNOW THROUGH CONTACT TRACING THAT ATHLETICS HAVE COST KIDS IN CLASSROOM TIME.

AND THEN OF COURSE THIS FALL WE SAW WHEN ATHLETICS WERE OPEN THAT MANY SCHOOL DISTRICTS EVEN THE ONES WHO WEREN'T ALLOWING IN-PERSON CLASSES WERE ALLOWING IN-PERSON ATHLETICS.

HOW DO YOU BALANCE THAT TENSION?

AND I MEAN, IS ATHLETICS SORT OF BECOMING A NORTH STAR OVER ACADEMICS AT THIS POINT?

>> YEAH, I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT CONCLUSION THAT ATHLETICS ARE BECOMING A NORTH STAR OVER ACADEMICS.

I THINK ATHLETICS ARE A PATHWAY FOR MANY STUDENT ATHLETES THEY ARE AN OUT LET FOR MANY STUDENT ATHLETES AND A WAY IN WHICH THEY LEARN SOME INCREDIBLE SKILLS, RIGHT, TEAM WORK PERSEVERANCE AND GRIT SO I THINK ATHLETICS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A KEY COMPONENT OF A PUBLIC EDUCATION IN MICHIGAN AND IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT WE HAVE THIS PANDEMIC THAT REQUIRES US TO KIND OF PICK BINARY CHOICES.

THERE IS A FULL COMPLEMENT OF CHOICES THAT WE COULD PICK IN TERMS OF HOW WE ENGAGE ATHLETICS AND ACADEMICS AND SO I KIND OF DISAGREE WITH YOUR CONCLUSION THAT ATHLETICS HAS BECOME KIND OF THE NORTH STAR.

I THINK THEY HAVE ALL BEEN A KEY COMPONENT OF PUBLIC EDUCATION IN MICHIGAN.

>> GO AHEAD I'M SORRY.

>> SO SHOULD THERE EVER BE A TIME WHEN SCHOOL DISTRICTS ARE OFFERING IN-PERSON ATHLETICS BUT NOT ACADEMICS?

>> THAT IS A QUESTION I CAN'T ANSWER BUT IT'S A GOOD ONE THOUGH.

>> PETER YOU NOTICED CHAD WE HAVE ONE MINUTE BEFORE WE DO OVER TIME WITH THE COUNSELOR GO AHEAD CHAD.

>> PETER YOU HAVE BEEN IN THIS TOWN A LONG TIME.

PHILOSOPHICALLY FROM A POLICY MAKING STANDPOINT SHOULD WE SHOULD LEGISLATURES BE PUTTING MET TRIGGERS ABOUT REOPENING OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF BUSINESSES AND JUST THIS KIND OF REALLY FINITE DETAIL SHOULD THAT BE GOING INTO STATUTE?

>> THAT'S A REALLY GOOD QUESTION AND A TOUGH ONE, CHAD.

RIGHT I MEAN YOU LOOK BACK TO THE FLU IN 1918, AND 1919 AND SHUT DOWN ORDERED BY THEN GOVERNOR ALBERT OF APPROXIMATELY 21 DAYS.

THE ORDER THAT WAS ISSUED BY DIRECTOR HERTELL GOES INTO EFFECT THROUGH MARCH 29TH, 2020.

WE WILL HAVE LIVED OVER A YEAR IN A VARIETY OF SHUT DOWN ORDERS.

SO I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE A BALANCE BETWEEN THE EXTRAORDINARY POWER EXERCISED BY THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH HERE AND THE LEGISLATURE'S ABILITY TO PUT MET TRIGGERS INTO STATE LAW AND I THINK WE HAVE KIND OF GOTTEN OUT OF BALANCE IN THAT RELATIONSHIP AND I THINK IT'S REALLY TIME FOR US TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO GET BACK IN BALANCE AND FRANKLY I THINK ELIZABETH IS PROBABLY THE BEST PERSON SUITED AS HEALTH DIRECTOR TO DO JUST THAT.

>> COUNSELOR WE WILL BE BACK WITH OVER TIME WITH YOU IN A COUPLE OF SECONDS SO STAY TUNED.

BEFORE WE PUT A TOP ON THIS TONIGHT A LITTLE BIT OF A CELEBRATION IN OUR TOWN THIS WEEK OFF THE RECORD HAS CELEBRATED AS OF YESTERDAY 49 YEARS ON THE AIR.

AND IT IS NOT TRUE THAT ABRAHAM LINCOLN WAS OUR FIRST GUEST GO TO WKAR.ORG WITH OVER TIME WITH OUR COUNSELOR AND PANEL RIGHT AFTER THESE CLOSED CREDITS.

PRODUCTION OF OFF THE RECORD IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY THE FOLLOWING, BUSINESS LEADERS FOR MICHIGAN HAS A STRATEGIC PLAN TO MAKE MICHIGAN A TOP TEN STATE IN THE NATION FOR JOBS, PERSONAL INCOME AND A HEALTHY ECONOMY LEARN MORE AT MICHIGAN ROAD TO TOP TEN.COM.

FOR MORE OFF THE RECORD VISIT WKAR.ORG, MICHIGAN PUBLIC TELEVISION STATIONS HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO THE PRODUCTION COSTS OF OFF THE RECORD WITH TIM SKUBICK.