- [Announcer] This is a production of WEDU PBS, Tampa, St. Petersburg, Sarasota.

(upbeat music) - [Reporter] Coming up next in WEDU, the Florida Supreme Court hears arguments on whether the abortion amendment should be on the November ballot.

Are government created camps the solution to Florida's homeless problem.

Did the New College Dean of students go too far in doing this comedy routine?

- I walk on down that school bus, school bus stop, and I see Susie, and she's kind of got a little attitude, and I look over, I say, Susie, I wanna show you something.

- [Reporter] And should all residents have access to citizens property insurance?

All this and more right now on Florida This Week.

(upbeat music) - Welcome back.

Joining us on the panel this week, Alex Sink is the former Florida Chief Financial Officer, a candidate for Governor and a Democrat.

Danny Kushmer is a real estate broker, a businessman, and a Republican.

David Ponton is assistant professor and undergraduate director in the School of Interdisciplinary Global Studies at USF.

And William March is a political columnist for the Tampa Bay Times.

Nice to see all of you.

Thank you for coming to the set.

- Thank you.

- You're welcome.

- Well, lawyers trying to prevent an abortion rights measure from being on the November ballot, told the State Supreme Court this week that the proposed amendment is deceptive, and that voters won't realize just how far it will expand access to the procedure.

But the court justices seem to think the proposed ballot issue is clear.

- [Reporter] The proposed amendment says, "No law shall prohibit penalized, delay, or restrict abortion before viability or when necessary to protect the patient's health as determined by the patient's healthcare provider."

It makes one exception, which is already in the state constitution, that parents must be notified before their minor children can get an abortion.

Lawyers for Attorney General Ashley Moody and the Religious Freedom Group, Liberty Council, told the justices it would essentially ban any restrictions on abortion.

Proponents of the proposed amendment, though say the language of the ballot summary and the proposed amendment are concise and that Moody is playing politics instead of letting the voters decide.

- Alex, the Supreme Court justices, this is a conservative court, but the Supreme Court justices this week seem to be tougher on the people that wanted to keep the measure off the ballot than they were on the proponents of the measure.

- Well, and rightfully so, the supporters, which I am one, this will be Amendment four on the ballot, are feeling very confident after the hearing.

After all, the Chief Justice himself said, Florida voters aren't stupid, and they only had two decisions to make.

One is, is it a single subject, which it is.

And the second is whether or not the language is clear, which it clearly is by their own admission, and the politics and their personal feelings should be out of it.

So we're very hopeful that the Supreme Court will make the decision that the language is appropriate and we'll know by April the first.

- Danny, do you agree and do you think the language is clear that when voters go into the booth, that they're gonna know what they're voting for?

- You know, Rob, as I read it, it sounds clear to me.

And, you know, I'm all for letting the voters decide.

It's not an issue I support.

I certainly hope if it does make it on the ballot, it fails.

You know, in 2022, Florida had 86,000 abortions.

That was after the 15 week ban.

56% of those abortions was prior to six weeks.

98% of those abortions were prior to 15 weeks.

How many more babies do we want to kill?

Statistically in New York, California, and Florida, they all average about the same, about a half a percent per population per for abortions.

Again, how many more do we want?

We're already working within the realm.

So, but if it does make it on this, on the amendment four on the ballot, I will do my best to work to try to educate people that, you know, maybe it's a bad thing to do.

- David, I guess the question too is, is this likely to draw more voters out?

People that would normally sit on the sidelines because it is such a contentious issue, will it draw more pro-choice people, will draw more anti-abortion people out, because it is such a divisive question.

- Yeah, I think what we've seen in terms of the polling data is that people are very mobilized by this issue and have been mobilized since Dobbs to be more engaged in their elections.

The question about whether this bill or this proposed amendment is ambiguous in its language, is I think not a genuine claim by the Liberty Council or Matt Staver.

This organization, the Liberty Council, was founded as a litigation nonprofit to promote religious freedom and to protect the freedom of speech.

Since the early aught, it's become much more involved in these cultural issues.

And even Matt Staver posted a blog this week on Tuesday stating that part of the motivation behind this was to promote God's word, which is a fine thing for a religious organization to want to do, but to legislate how people express their freedom under the guise of liberty, I think is not genuine.

- Not every church, not every religious group agrees on what approach we should have towards abortion.

- Exactly.

- And Floridians don't want and don't like government interference in personal medical decisions.

- So Wendy, I think the Democrats though hope that this will draw a lot of liberals out to vote, and that somehow it will impact the presidential election.

- Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Not just the presidential election, but all up and down the ballot.

And they've got pretty good evidence for saying that, looking at the number of abortion related referendums that have passed in other states by comfy margins.

In fact, local Democrats tell me that if the Supreme Court doesn't allow this on the ballot, they'll campaign on that fact, on the fact that the court would not allow voters to choose.

I personally will be astonished if a court that includes five Ron DeSantis appointees approves this ballot language.

Now, the quotes and things that Alex was referring to from the justices suggest that they're not buying the argument, that it's unclear.

But you know, sometimes when you try to analyze the questions that justices ask, in a controversial case like this, sometimes you can read the tea leaves and sometimes you can't.

The same justices were also using the term unborn babies to refer to fetuses as the anti-abortion side does, and giving other indications that they might be looking for problems.

What's a healthcare provider?

The ballot language referred to healthcare provider.

Does this mean tattoo artists are gonna perform abortions?

So we'll see.

Like I said, I'll be astonished if they approve it.

- Danny, just quickly, do you think that religious conservatives will be fired up if the issue appears on the ballot?

- Well, I sure hope they are.

You know, I'm an adopted individual.

I think I've said that before on the show, and I certainly would love to see on the show every now and then a lady talk about being against abortion.

So, but as an adoptee, I feel I do have a right to speak to that issue.

And I want to see the conservatives, the religious right, the churches certainly stand up because again, there's a lot of work we need to do.

Look, we need to reform adoption in the state of Florida.

I've gone through that process to try to adopt a child through the state.

It's a terrible, terrible situation, but it doesn't mean we throw away our babies.

- Okay, well, this week, governor Ron DeSantis endorsed a statewide strategy for dealing with homeless people.

He wants to create camps to house the homeless.

- [Reporter] Bills are moving forward that would require counties to ban homeless people from camping and sleeping in public places, and instead allow them to stay in designated camps with security, sanitation, and access to behavioral health services.

As the Tampa Bay Times reports, the governor said the legislation is still a work in progress.

He says he backs the goal of moving homeless people off the streets.

He also said he was open to assigning money to help local governments treat and house them.

- We're not gonna let any city turn into a San Francisco, not on our watch.

We're not gonna let that happen.

We're gonna have protection for people.

- [Reporter] Some Democrats though are opposed, saying the proposed laws are vague and could lead to criminalizing homelessness.

- What happens to homeless people?

Are they subject to being arrested?

Are they becoming criminals under this bill?

We asked that question, we didn't really get an answer.

- [Reporter] There is a housing crisis here in Florida for years.

The cost of buying a house or renting in Florida has risen sharply, faster than almost any other state.

And the state has the nation's third highest homeless population with nearly 26,000 unhoused people counted in a survey in 2022.

- Danny, we don't know what this legislation is ultimately gonna look like, but with the governor's endorsement has a pretty good shot.

Will this end up, do you think, or should it end up, in that you arrest people if they're sleeping in public places or camping in public parks?

Should that be part of the legislation?

- Yeah, it's a concern, but I will tell you, if you've been to Atlanta anytime in the past six months, I have a home in Alabama.

I travel a lot out through Atlanta.

Their homeless people are on the interstates or camping under bridges.

In fact, a few weeks ago, there was a fire under I 75 that literally shut down the interstate to make sure it was structurally okay by these homeless encampments.

Something has to be done.

We don't wanna be San Francisco, but we certainly don't even wanna be Atlanta.

So the governor said that there could be money put in here, we need to address the mental illness.

Certainly that's an issue, and I've said that for years.

But I'll go back to the early two thousands.

We used to have deputies in South Hillsborough County pick up the homeless and take 'em to the Manatee County line.

- Oh, David, do you think that creating camps is the solution to the homeless population?

- It's not the solution.

We've certainly seen, in my experience in Tampa over the past year, an increase in the homeless population right here at home.

There are homeless people, unhoused people on railroad tracks that I had not seen there before, outside grocery stores that I had not seen before.

It's clearly a problem that's exacerbating.

We've seen a 34% increase year over year in Florida's homeless population.

This bill, what it doesn't do is actually address the core issue.

It doesn't mandate that municipalities or counties create these homeless camps.

It says that they may create them, and then it says if they do create them, there are a whole bunch of measures that the need to take in order to keep the community and the homeless population safe.

But it doesn't provide financing.

I've heard the rhetoric of that it's about mental health, it doesn't provide anything in terms of mental health.

It's not addressing the core issues.

And it does have the potential to result in the criminalization of the homeless population.

It is a civil litigation kind of bill.

But if cities are forced to do something to remove these homeless folks, it might result in them being criminalized, being taken by police and locked up for the act of existing without a home.

- Rob, my favorite expression is follow the money.

That's what, the operative word of what the governor had to say is, yes, this is sounds like a good solution, but we need funding to be able to take these homeless people to a place where they can really get the services that they need.

And if that happens, then that sounds good to me.

- You know, you worked for a long time in Tallahassee.

From the beginning of the Jeb Bush administration, or just in his first term, to the year 2022, $2 billion was diverted from the Sadowski Housing Trust Fund to other needs in Tallahassee.

So there is money coming in for housing, but it's for most of the last 20 years- - Not being allocated for housing.

Yeah, that's right.

And then the Hillsborough County Commission just this week eliminates the little amount of money that was set aside for affordable housing.

So let's follow the money.

- Okay, so you think this is a popular thing among voters or, you know, and Wendy I wonder what the police and the sheriffs are saying around the state, if their new job is to round up homeless people and make them go to shelters or arrest them?

- I haven't seen any reporting on that yet.

My guess is that they're not going to be too happy with it.

The idea of putting homeless people in camps that this bill raises, very difficult for me to take seriously.

Where are these camps gonna be?

There's no money in this bill for the cities or the counties.

The cities or the counties have to set them up.

Where are they gonna put them?

Whose neighborhood are they gonna put 'em next to?

- No neighbors want it.

(Alex laughing) - There's no money in this bill to provide the cities and counties money to buy the land to put them on.

Homeless people often don't want to go to shelters because they can be dangerous.

There's no money in this bill for guards or security people to make these camps safe.

These camps are never going to happen anywhere.

- Okay, well the new dean of students at New College in Sarasota is coming under fire for making jokes about rape and minors who expose themselves to each other.

- [Reporter] According to the Sarasota Herald Tribune, David Rancourt, a former lobbyist and now dean of students at New College, participated in what appeared to be a New College sanctioned group comedy class at McCurdy's Comedy Theater.

In his seven minute segment uploaded to YouTube, he joked about same sex rape, and 7-year-old male and female children exposing their genitals to each other.

Here is part of his routine, and we warn you that it is graphic.

- I went home one night and I said, mama, there's something that I have that Susie doesn't have.

I'm seven, mom's trying to make me feel good.

You knows, it's what moms do.

She said, well, David, there is something you have that she doesn't have.

I said, what's that?

She said, you look down between your legs, that's called a penis.

- When asked for comment about the Dean of Students' actions, a New College spokesman said this, "Cancel culture is over at New College.

Comedy is a work of art, one that is reliant on our society's tenets of free speech and free expression."

New College president, Richard Corcoran, also participated in the comedy event performing immediately after Rancourt.

- So the jokes talked about seven year olds exposing themselves to each other, David.

And then there were jokes about rape.

And I wonder if I'm a conservative parent up north and the governor and President Corcoran are trying to steer a more conservative direction for New College, and I see this on YouTube, am I more likely to send my kid to a college that allows this, where the Dean of Students makes these kind of jokes?

- I, a parent with integrity, would not.

And there's been a lot of conversation around David Rancourt even being appointed to this position.

He doesn't have experience in higher education.

He's not qualified from my perspective for this job.

There are people who debate on the other side and say, he is qualified.

But if the qualification is, do you have integrity?

Do you have the kind of moral upstanding that you proclaim in public as a conservative?

And then you make jokes that are homophobic, that are about rape, that are about child sexuality.

And even worse, a joke about, a racist joke about indigenous Amazonians, like all of these things indicate someone who doesn't have a kind of moral compass of care towards students.

And that is a primary qualification for a dean of students.

- And Alex and Wendy, you've been up in Tallahassee, you know, Rancourt and his history.

Tell us a little bit more about who this new Dean of Students is.

- Well, when I was the Chief Financial Officer, David Rancort was one of the top lobbyists, very respected, top lobbyists, a Republican operative close to Jeb Bush.

And to think that, fast forward, he is named by his buddy Richard Corcoran, to the job of dean of students of one of our state universities for a big six figure income.

He is unqualified to be Dean of Students and as to the subject of comedy and cancel culture, rape is no joking matter.

- Well, that's how New College is defending it.

They're saying the cancel culture no longer exists here at New College.

This is a new era.

It's a Wendy, what's your take?

- Well, like Alex said, both David Rancourt and Richard Corcoran started their careers out as Republican political operatives.

Their training, their schooling, their orientation is to do political battle with Democrats.

This particular thing is so sort of out there that this particular comedy routine is so out there, that what it looks to me like is a deliberate challenge.

A gauntlet thrown down in the face of the liberal New College professors and students who've been there here to for.

But I think one of the main things that's being overlooked in all of the controversy over New College is that New College is and has long been Florida's foremost STEM school.

Its biggest, most popular and best majors are in mathematics and the physical sciences.

It's a major feeder for medical schools for graduate programs in physics, biology, and chemistry and mathematics.

And supposedly, STEM education is what we want.

But this is the college that Governor DeSantis is trying to revamp and in effect wipe out.

- You know, Danny, I'm surprised President Corcoran went to Pat Robertson's Law school, the Televangelist Law School.

You figured that everything he does would be associated with some sort of family value.

So I just wonder, what's your take on, if you're a conservative parent up there in New York or you know, Boston, or you know, you're up there in North Carolina, you wanna send your child to a conservative college.

Do you choose New College after you watch this video?

- Well, certainly.

And you're gonna look to Florida, we're a red state, you know, we are a free state.

And then you have this.

If I was a president, he would be fired, straight up.

Unfortunately, apparently the president participated afterwards, so I don't think that's gonna happen.

Number two, he's a very poor comedian.

The jokes were awful, number one.

Yes, terrible jokes, but then throw in the fact they were just awful.

You want to be a comedian, you go out, you go to stand up live, you go do shows written, you know, get rid of your job, go to Vegas and do your standup not in front of these kids.

And do not represent the state of Florida.

That's the problem.

- Okay well, a North Fort Myers member of the legislature has an idea for fixing the high cost of property insurance.

And it's an unusual plan coming from a member of the Republican Party.

- [Reporter] As the Tampa Bay Times reported, state representative, Spencer Roach discussed his idea this week at a house committee meeting in Tallahassee.

His idea, instead of Floridians paying hurricane premiums to private for-profit insurance companies, they could be covered by the state-run citizens property insurance, and probably for cheaper.

It would be modeled after the National Flood Insurance Program.

Private insurance companies would still provide coverage for fire theft and other damage and even wind coverage if they wanted.

Roach said the move could save residents money and there would be savings because fewer premium dollars would go toward company profits or payouts to insurance executives.

But the citizens president and CEO cautioned that taking on the state's hurricane risk could make it difficult for citizens to acquire reinsurance, which is insurance that insurers by head of storm season to pay claims.

Representative Roach has firsthand experience about the problem.

His home was destroyed during Hurricane Ian.

His insurance company was St. Petersburg based United Property and Casualty, which initially denied his claim before going outta business.

He was eventually paid through the Florida Insurance Guarantee Association, which levies assessments on property owners statewide to pay its claims.

But the representative still had to take out a hundred thousand dollars in loans to rebuild his home.

So for years, I think, especially conservators in Tallahassee have said, no, we can't expand citizens.

We've gotta depopulate and go to private companies.

But here's a conservative who says we ought to consider citizens as a solution to the crisis.

- Right that's going in exactly the opposite direction that the state's been going for years.

This bill, of course, will not pass.

As a matter of courtesy they gave Spencer Roach a hearing on his bill, but it has no chance to pass.

But it seems obvious that something somewhat drastic has to happen in the field of property insurance in Florida, sometime fairly soon.

For four successive years, the legislature in the face of this crisis that's literally driving people outta their homes, driving them outta the state, has done nothing but make it harder to sue insurance companies.

Now that's (phone ringing) - Harder to sue insurance companies- - Fraud against insurance companies and litigation is part of the problem.

But information that's been presented to the legislature has showed that it's not by any means all of the problem.

There are significant other problems in the way the insurance companies run their business that are at least also a partial cause.

- Alex, what's your take?

How do we solve the insurance?

Is this the way to solve?

- Well, if I were the Chief Financial Officer, what the Chief Financial Officer of this state ought to be doing is commissioning an independent study and analysis of insurance in the state of Florida.

The reason the Republicans have been in the pocket of the private insurance industry for years and years and years, and that's why we're in the mess that we are in.

And I have to applaud Senator Roach because he had personal experience finally of what it could be like to be on the other side.

So there's a growing sentiment that, you know, Florida could take over writing through Citizens, all the insurance.

I'm not sure if that's a good idea, but we need, we need an, you know, I'm a mather.

We need an analysis of what would that mean?

How many billions of dollars would we Floridians be on the hook?

And how would that money get paid off?

Is it gonna be on the backs of us as the Floridians as opposed to spreading the risk?

It's not a one stop fits all solution.

- So we need a study, it looks like hurricane Irma hits us again- - Independent sources like a state university or something like that so that we could understand what are all the pieces that have to be put together instead of continuing to have these one-off ideas that this is gonna be the silver bullet.

There is no silver bullet.

- Okay, well, before we go, what other news story should we be paying attention to?

And let's go back to Alex Sink.

Alex, your other big story of the week.

- My big story of the week, I decided to have fun, is this morning I heard that today is the 60th anniversary of the Beatles appearance on the Ed Sullivan Show.

And I was a young teenage girl of 15, gathered around the television, early days of television.

We always watched Ed Sullivan on Sunday nights, I guess it was.

And it was a big deal.

And think about the progression of music over the next 60 years.

It's been phenomenal.

So that's my story of the week.

- All right, Danny, your other big story.

- Well, hey yesterday, Alex, you were there.

Florida State Fair open.

So it's open through the 19th of this month and then shortly thereafter on the 29th, the Strawberry Festival.

What a great time to be in West Central Florida.

So go out there, enjoy 'em, eat some strawberries, and partake in our local cuisine.

- This is really a good time of year.

David, your other big story?

- The big story that I want people to pay attention to is the Democrats in the Florida legislature are proposing the Harry and Harriette Moore Florida Voting Rights Act, which would potentially roll back some of the restrictions that have been put in place in terms of mail-in voting.

And then the other thing is sort of a shameless plug.

My first book was published this week on Tuesday.

So it's "Houston in the Permanence of Segregation".

It's available through Amazon, Barnes and Noble, the University of Texas Press website.

- Congratulations.

- Congratulations.

- Thank you.

- Wars were killed by a racist bomber on New Year's Eve in Orlando.

(cross talk) Okay, Wendy your big story?

- Well, the latest in a long line of bills by the Florida legislature that preempt take away powers from local government would abolish all police civilian review boards in the state, there are 21 of them, including one each in St. Petersburg and Tampa.

This bill would prohibit them from meeting again or prohibit any city from passing any ordinance related to regulating or investigating allegations of police misconduct.

Both Mayor Ken Welch and Jane Castor of St. Petersburg and Tampa respectively are unhappy about this.

The Tampa board resulted from a compromise after long years of controversy.

- Thanks to Alex Sink, Danny Kushmer, David Ponton, and Wendy March.

And thank you for joining us.

Send us your comments at ftwwedu.org and like us on Facebook, you can view this and past shows online at wedu.org or on the PBS app.

Florida This Week is now available as a podcast.

From all of us here at WEDU, have a great weekend.

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