WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Good evening.

I'm William Brangham.

Geoff Bennett and Amna N On the "NewsHour" tonight: Defense Secretary Ll since his cancer treatment and the killing of American troops in Jordan.

A look at swatting, the phenomenon of targeting someone's home by calling in fake repor that trigger a police response.

And a former Russian politician is forced to flee SERGEI MEDVEDEV, Former Russian Lawmaker (through translator): Whatever power I have, I will use it to stop this, because all politics right now in Russia are focused on justifica I don't see anything that can be justified.

(BREAK) WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Welcome to the "NewsHour."

Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin battle with prostate cancer.

The military's second in command kept Presi in December and during subsequent hospitalizations.

That prompted new federal guidelines and triggered a political firestorm.

At the Pentagon today, Austin, who is 70 years old, was visibly limping as he made his way to the podium for his first press conference since the scandal broke.

LLOYD AUSTIN, U.S. Secretary of Defense: I'm recovering well, but, as you can see, I'm still recovering.

I want to be We did not handle this right and I did not handle this right.

I should have told the president about my cancer diagnosis.

I should have also told my team and the American public.

And I take full responsibility.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: The reviews Our own Nick Schifrin was there at the Pentagon today, and he joins me now.

So, Nick, there's this long gap of almost a month between the diagnosis and Austin finding out about it and him telling the president.

How did he explain that today?

NICK SCHIFRIN: instinct was to remain private.

But, as you point out, it was nearly a mon had his surgery, and then he had his complications, which required a second hospitalization.

And only after it became public did he tell the president.

I asked him today, what was he thinking?

This was his response.

LLOYD AUSTIN: When y on your plate.

And so putting my person I just didn't feel that that was a thing that I should do at the time.

But, again, I recognize that that was a mistake, NI CK SCHIFRIN: Austin said he never directed staff to withhold the fact that he was back in the hospital on January the 1st, and he claimed that there was no gap in any authorities inside the Department of Defense.

But there are still questions, into the hospital.

He was taken t arrive without any sirens.

As for informing the public, he acknowle to tell men, especially his age, that they should screened for prostate cancer, because the fact is, the screening caught his prostate cancer in good enough time for his prognosis to be excellent.

One in eight Ameri One in six Black American men will get it.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: So that whole scanda how it's going to respond to the killing of these three U.S. soldiers in Jordan over the weekend.

What did Aus NICK SCHIFRIN: Austin called And he reiterated that whatever U.S. military response to the attack that killed three U.S. soldiers over the weekend, that military response would not be one and done, but instead what he called multitiered.

LLOYD AUSTIN and so they have a lot of capability.

I have a lot NICK SCHIFRI proxy forces in Iraq and Syria, Iranian targets in Iraq and Syria, as well as targets inside Iran itself.

And I asked Aust when the U.S. administration was deciding how to respond to the attack.

He said -- quote -- "It doesn't really matter," because Iran sponsors, funds and trains these proxy groups in Iraq and Syria.

The question now is, William, of course, h or just its proxies after 160 attacks on U.S. forces in the last three months across Iraq and Syria.

WILLIAM BRAN NICK SCHIFRIN: Thank you.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: In the day's other headlines: President Biden issued an executive order targeting Israeli settlers in the West Bank who have been accused of attacking Palestinians.

The move imposes financial sanctions and visa bans on four individuals who have directly engaged in such violence in the occupied territory.

The order comes amid growing criticism over U.S. support for Israel's military campaig in Gaza.

Meanwhile, Gaza's 27,000 people.

That's in addition to the more than 66,000 in In the south of Gaza, Israeli forces have flattened entire neighborhoods in Khan Yunis.

Thousands have been forced to flee to nearby Rafah, packed into encampments and living in unsanitary conditions.

The European Union voted unanimously today to provide Ukraine It will be used to strengthen the country's economy and sustain essential services.

The deal was announced within the first hour of the E.U.

's summit in Brussels after Hungary dropped its veto threat.

The European Commission president was hope URSULA VON DER LEYEN, President, European Commission: I think we have proven today by these 50 billion euros that we stand by Ukraine.

And I think it will be an encouragement for the United States also to do their fair share.

We all know that Ukraine is fighting for us, so we will support them with the necessary funding and provide them with a much-needed predictability they deserve.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Meanwhile in Washington, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer said the text of a bipartisan bill to provide more aid to Ukraine and Israel and to strengthen border security will be released as early as tomorrow.

And he expects the Senate will take its first vote on the package no later than Wednesday.

European farmers ramped up their protests by descending on today's E.U.

summit in Brussels.

Hundreds of tractors conve hardships.

protesters set bonfire TIJS BOELENS, Belgian Farmer (through translator): Most of us are going to go back to their farms, back to milk their cows, but I think the day was a great success.

We have been able to really point at the economic aspect of our struggle.

It's not just the environmental measures.

It's rather the pressure which is on the WILLIAM BRANGHAM: For weeks, farmers have bloc rising prices and competition from cheaper imports.

Back in this country, heavy downpours inundated Southern and Eastern California today.

It was the first of two back-to-back atmospheric rivers expected to hit the West Coast.

In Long Beach, traffic along the Pacific Coast Highway sloshed through floodwaters.

Some cars were stranded in the deluge.

Forecasters warn, the second storm arriving on Sunday will And stock soared on Wall Street today.

The Dow Jones industrial average climbed 369 points The Nasdaq rose 197 points.

The S&P 500 added 60.

Still to come on the "NewsHour": the political battle over th health coverage for millions; ties between Republican politicians and Christian nationalists raise concern about threats to democracy; a licensing dispute mutes content from major pop stars on TikTok; Oscar-nominated actor Lily Gladstone talks about her historymaking performance in "Killers of the Flower Moon"; plus much more.

The number of Americans getting health insurance through the Affordable Care Act has hit a record high, with more than 21 million people signed up through the marketplaces.

But as it has in the past, this law, often referred to as Obamacare, is becoming an election issue.

In a moment, people who currently get their insurance through this law.

KENNITA HICKMAN, Affordable Care Act Enrollee: Having access to been everything.

I don't know How would I -- how would I go to those annual visits for my sp that I'm OK?

And how would I be able to do it at an aff I'm two-and-a-half years into being a full-time entrepreneur.

I'm not making a lot of money.

And so, I mean, it's scary to think about stipends goi even when I worked at a full-time company in 2017, they were everything.

They were so helpful.

CHRIS MCMAHON, A Financially, it's a great resource for me.

I mean, with the diabetes, it's a tough thing.

So, it helps me through that.

And if that wasn't an option, it wou It's pretty much this or no insurance or returning to the work force, which kind of isn't an option for me right now.

HOLLY GOEBEL husband was laid off from his job, where we get employee-provided insuranc And we did not want to risk having several months without insurance.

The Affordable Care Act, while it's giving me health insurance and it's giving me a tax credit for my family so it's more affordable, it's not nearly as good as I would like it to be.

I do have lots of fear election and other situations that are going to occur in our House and Senate and how that can impact the Affordable Care Act.

I am fearful that if this program goes away, I don't kn solution.

While this i chronic illnesses.

WILLIAM BRAN to help people like those we just heard from by this insurance, and they have worked to increase those enrollment numbers.

But on the campaign trail, former President Trum replace the law if he was elected.

For more on all of this, I spoke earlier today with Sabrina Corlette.

She is founder and co-director University's McCourt School of Public Policy.

Sabrina, welcome back to the "NewsHour."

SABRINA CORLETTE, Center on He WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Five milli policies than they were a year ago.

What is driving that surge?

SABRINA CORLETTE: We Number one, the Biden administration has made big in the premium tax credits that are available to help people buy the coverage.

The second thing they have done is increase funding for outreach and consumer assistance so that more people are aware that the subsidies are available.

And then, once they go to sign up, they're helped along the process as th the applications.

The third thing that's going on is the enrollment.

So, during t for about three years.

Now states are starting to go through the are no longer eligible for Medicaid because their income is a little bit too high are now eligible for the marketplace plans.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: I see.

So the subsidies that peop forever, right?

People's pre SABRINA CORLETTE: Well, it depends on your income.

So the way Obamacare works is your -- the on your income level.

So the lower If your income goes up, then the amount you are expected to pay in pre WILLIAM BRANGHAM: I see.

I mentioned Can you just remind us, how pivotal will the 2024 election be with regards to this law?

SABRINA CORLETTE: Well, we have one presidential candidate, most likely, who is pledged to build on and improve the Affordable Care Act.

That's President Biden.

And then we have another potentia it.

So it's not And, obviously, we don't know what Congress will look like if he's elected.

But I do think that, should a repeal effort be successful, we're looking at a lot of people who could very abruptly lose their health insurance coverage.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: I wonder if you think that the political salience of at Care Act is as potent as it might have been a decade or so ago.

I mean, it seems like the more people you get onto the program, the more sort of individual champions you have for it.

SABRINA CORLETTE: Right.

When Trump came in marketplaces.

Now we have WILLIAM BRANGHAM: That's a lot more voters.

SABRINA CORL And I also think that It's just part of the fabric of our health care system.

So it's hard to imagine what -- how provider systems would work without Obamacare, how coverage would work without Obamacare.

It's really just become sort of intertwi in the U.S. WILLIAM BRAN Affordable Care Act at the beginning were.

They always said, if you allow it and then it's impossible to -- it's like a dragon that you can't kill once it's birthed and out in the world.

(LAUGHTER) SABRINA CORL I think that Sometimes, there are difficulties accessing certain providers, but it provid meaningful financial protection if you get sick.

It provides free access to preventive care and access to So particularly if you have any kind of preexisting condition, diabetes or a heart issue, the law is really, I mean, sort of essential to your ability to interact with the health care system.

WILLIAM BRAN conservatives will make about these subsidies in particular is that they're too costly for the quality of care that people are getting.

Is there any way to do a cost/benefit analysis to kno this much, yielding this much benefit?

SABRINA CORLETTE: Well, it's funny.

I think there's this common misperception that peopl are not subsidized by the federal government.

In fact, employer-based insurance is the most heavily subsidized coverage that w So there's -- it's just a different form, right?

So, with the Affordable Care Act, we have premium tax credits.

With employer-based coverage, it's a tax exclusion.

But, either way, the federal government is any kind of insurance.

WILLIAM BRANGH SABRINA CORLETTE: My pleasure.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: In Russia today, it is rare to find someone who is willing to publicly criticize Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine, which is now nearing its third year.

But it's even rarer for that criticism to come from an elected official.

Nick Schifrin spoke with one Russian politician who decided to take a stand.

NICK SCHIFRIN: The day Sergei Medvedev decided his country was no longer his home, he traveled for four days through the snow, past the graffiti cursing the man he calls a monster to remove the blindfold he says Russians place over their own eyes.

SERGEI MEDVEDEV, Former Russian Lawmaker (through translator): All sane people is happening right now.

After World War II, this is the larg It's probably half-a-million deaths by now.

What's happening, it's awful.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Medvedev is not He was a local lawmaker in Central Russia and member of th Party.

But he says SERGEI MEDVEDEV (through translator): Whatever power I have, I will use it to stop this, because all politics right now in Russia are focused on justifications.

I don't see anything that can be justified.

Kharkiv, the bombing of Odesa, Bucha, I saw how cities were transformed into ruins.

I saw how they bombed theaters and children's day cares.

I saw this with my own eyes.

I have Internet access, as does every Russian.

Whoever wants to see sees.

NICK SCHIFRIN: On December 31, he SERGEI MEDVEDEV (through translator): May the creature who unleashed this bloody massacre die.

Deceived, ma Russia, wake up.

They're killing yo I want to see Russia f NICK SCHIFRIN: Your post on December 31 went viral.

Why do you think it went viral?

SERGEI MEDVEDEV (thr you can't speak freely about this.

Even though it was criticism, I reache There were a lot of thanks.

By the way, there NICK SCHIFRIN: But he knew he had to flee.

He didn't feel safe using his credit card, so he left his home in app to Yekaterinburg.

He then carpooled to Chelyabinsk and on foot and hitchhiked to Karabalyk and then to Kostanay.

He bought a train ticket to Astana and flew first to the small Kazakh city of Aktau and then to Tbilisi, Georgia.

SERGEI MEDVEDEV (through I'm not really afraid to go to jail.

I understood this could happen, but, in principle, I didn't want it.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Today's Russia punishes any and all criticism; 20,000 have been detained for protesting the war.

In November, Aleksandra Skochilenko was sentence tags with critiques of the war, including "Russian forces have destroyed over 20 medical centers in Ukraine."

It was Putin himself who two years ago launched a new wave of in VLADIMIR PUTIN, Russian President (through translator): The Russian people will always be able to distinguish true patriots from scum and traitors and simply spit them out like a fly that accidentally flew into the mouth.

I am convinced that such a natural and necessary our country.

NICK SCHIFRI local parliament threw him out.

The vote was 33-0.

What is the current state of politics?

What is the current state of free SERGEI MEDVEDEV (through translator): You Ev eryone must speak for the war.

Any person who speaks out against will The regime worked the way it's supposed to work.

What's really going on?

Corruption, theft.

Everyone who is close to Parliament NICK SCHIFRIN: Medvedev believes Russian society even goes beyond of authoritarianism.

SERGEI MEDVEDEV (through that war would be renamed with an acronym.

He wrote about war and called war, war.

But in our country, they can't even call war a war.

It was called SVO, special military operation, and even the word war NICK SCHIFRIN: What would happen to you if you returned to the Russian Federation?

SERGEI MEDVEDEV (through translator): Probably, I would have been arrested, like Alexey like all the people who oppose Putin and the current war.

The war has changed people in Russia.

People are screaming slogans that even a decade ago they would hav People send their sons and husbands to war and say that this is good.

NICK SCHIFRIN: It's a motherland that Medvedev no longer recognizes.

He's lost his home and job, but not his sense of purpose.

He will keep urging Russians to recognize reality.

As Orwell said, to see what is in front of one's nose needs constant struggle.

For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Nick Schifrin.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Imagine you're spending a quiet evening at home with your family, when, out of nowhere, dozens of heavily armed police officers are outside your front door, responding to a threat of violence that is not real.

It's a phenomenon called swatting.

Lisa Desjardins reports on this growing proble LISA DESJARDINS: In recent weeks, we have seen many high 911 calls, among them Republican presidential candidate Nikki Haley twice, special counsel Jack Smith and Judge Tanya Chutkan, who are overseeing the Donald Trump federal investigation and trial, Maine Secretary of State Shenna Bellows, who disqualified Trump from the ballot there, and nearly three dozen members of Congress since Christmas, according to one report.

That includes House Majority Whip Tom Emmer, Representatives Shontel Brown and Marjorie Taylor Greene, and Senator Rick Scott.

Today, House minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries responded to the REP. HAKEEM JEFFR harassment and intimidation on both sides of the aisle, so we can do what the American people sent us to Washington to do, which is solve problems and deliver real results.

LISA DESJARDINS: Just this week, the House sergeant at arms sent a letter to members' families about their security, advising them to stay in touch with local law enforcem To help explain swatting and what can be done to stop it, I'm joined by Lauren Shapiro, a professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice and author of "Cyberpredators an Their Prey."

Lauren, what LAUREN SHAPIRO, John Jay College of Criminal to report falsely when an incident is occurring, and serious, such as kidnapping, killin in order to get a response from the police.

Preferably, they want SWAT to come in to harm the people who are the victims.

In terms of the degree to which swatting is growing, I think it's more that people are reporting it and the news is reporting it, rather than there's an increase, per se.

I think people are becoming more aware of it.

Of it.

LISA DESJARD bomb threat, especially at schools, have been seen more as a nuisance than a direct harm to people and families.

But can you help us understand, LAUREN SHAPIRO: Well, first of all, you're taking the police and other first responders from (INAUDIBLE) this situation.

You're also wasting a lot of resources from any particular they need to have equipment be used, to pay salaries.

So there is a very negative effect on the community and on society in general, as well as for the victims being harassed by the swatting.

LISA DESJARDINS: But in cases like this, these are police, sometimes fully armed, coming in with their weapons, sometimes throwing the innocent people, the victims down on the floor.

I know there this, which is remarkable.

But one reason it's been i being targeted, including, as we mentioned, presidential candidate Nikki Haley.

Here's what she said this week on "Meet the Press."

NIKKI HALEY (R), Presidential Candidate: The en forcement officials with guns drawn pointing at my parents and thinking that ha ppened.

It is an awf It put the law enforcement officers in danger.

It put my family in danger and it was not a safe situati LISA DESJARDINS: Can you help us understand the motive here?

To what degree is there more political targeting now?

To what degree is this sort of just a despicable kind of sport for some young LA UREN SHAPIRO: I think you're on the mark there, because people who do not agree with anybody who's on the news or making a statement on the Internet become targets.

It's not just politicians.

It could be anyone It could be celebrities.

Currently, there is this atmosphere of host And I think that there's permission given in some way to go ahead and harass these o people.

LISA DESJARD Why is this not a crime everywhere right now LAUREN SHAPIRO: This is just not at the federal level considered to be a c There's no law that's associated with it.

And so in order to prosecute this kind of swatting incident, what you match the elements of a particular law with what actually is happening.

It's like a puzzle piece way of trying to prosecute the offender.

LISA DESJARDINS: That is wild, because, as much as we're talking about this now, and we're seeing more prominent examples, this has been going on for well more than a decade, and growing Another issu We showed that letter from the House sergeant at Congress.

But that let What exactly are police and family members, what can they do?

What are they doing?

LAUREN SHAPI And they're trying to gather across the country information about swatting, what actually happens, the number of times it occurs.

But it is asking people from multiple jurisdictions to contr Without it being a law, we also can't have money to train 911 operators.

We don't have enough funding to help train law enforcement to deal with these kinds of situations.

LISA DESJARD LAUREN SHAPIRO: Thank you very much for h WILLIAM BRANGHAM: The phrase white Christian nationalism has been in the headlines quite a bit recently, but what does it really mean?

Laura Barron-Lopez recently spoke to one expert to better understand t in American society.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Brad a Christian nationalist himself.

He left the church in 2005 and began studying He now hosts the popular podcast "Straight White American Jesus" and is the author of "Preparing for War: The Extremist History of White Christian Nationalism and What Comes Next."

I began by a BRAD ONISHI, Co-Host, "Straight White American Jesus": Christian nati that is based around the idea that this is a Christian nati as a Christian nation, and, therefore, it should be a Christian nation today and should be so in the future.

According to survey data, Christian nationalists agree should declare the United States of America a Christian nation.

Our laws should be based on Christian values.

being a Christian is important if you want to be a real American.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Onishi tracks a number of subgroups and ideas under the umbrella of white Christian nationalism, including what's known as the New Apostolic Reformation.

BRAD ONISHI: Well, the New Apostolic Reformation is notable for a number of reasons.

One, it's built around the idea that Christians are called to a new transformation or reformation of the United States.

These are Christians who want to revol it great again in terms of being a Christian nation.

They also are deeply invested in the notion of spiritual warfare, the idea that we ar called as Christians to fight a cosmic battle between good and evil, and that it's our duty to be boots on the ground for God in that conflict.

What this has led to some decades later is, the New Apostolic Reformation leaders, the apostles and the prophets that are really at the head of this movement were some of the earliest to support Donald Trump in 2016.

And they have remained steadfast in that support.

They were at the very avant-garde of trying to get the 2020 electi wake of Joe Biden's victory and mobilizing folks to be at January 6.

There were hundreds, if not thousands, of New Apostolic Reformation Christians at January 6, as an example.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: to white Christian nationalist beliefs, so where do they fall within this larger movement?

BRAD ONISHI: I think white evangelicals are the group we think of when we think of white Christian nationalism, and for good reason.

These are folks who, when we think about the vo ters were about 20 percent of his share of voters in that cycle.

Just a few weeks ago, in 2024, that grew to well over 50 percent.

White evangelicals remain committed to the MAGA movement, and one of the key indicators of why is Christian nationalism.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Are there that are tied to the former president directly or to his larger network?

BRAD ONISHI: Yes.

For example, a group of New were present at the White House a week before January 6.

Speaker Mike Johnson has direct ties to the New Apostolic Reformation.

Speaker Mike Johnson is somebody who's sought the counsel and the friendsh Carscadden, who is a New Apostolic Reformation pastor from his home district in Shreveport, Louisiana.

Timothy Cars Dutch Sheets is perhaps the most ardent Trump supporter in the New A He's the one who may have done the most of any Christian leader in the United States to mobilize folks to try to overturn the 2020 election and to make sure to attend January 6.

One of the m of his office, an Appeal to Heaven Flag.

The Appeal to Heaven Flag goes back to the It was inspired by John Locke.

But over the last 10 years, the Appeal to Heaven Sheets.

Dutch Sheets If you look closely at January 6, you will see dozens of Appeal to Heaven Flags.

It may have a long history, but in the contemporary context, it has a very specific meaning.

So the fact that Mike Johnson has it hanging outside of his office to me signifies how he understands his role as speaker of the House in terms of being a Christian and being an American.

LAURA BARRON said -- quote -- "The speaker has long appreciated the rich history o Any implication that the speaker's use of the flag is connected to the events of January 6 is wildly inaccurate."

But Onishi says the concerning links go beyond La st month, Lance Wallnau, a key New Apostolic Reformation figure, announced he was partnering with Charlie Kirk, the influential right-wing activist who leads Turning Point USA.

BRAD ONISHI: They're going to be visiting and focusing on swing states, Wisconsin, Arizona, Pennsylvania.

They have cl those churches directly for political involvement and specifically to get Trump reelected.

The two of them together signifies a crossover.

It signifies a joining in a way that promises, I thin LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Meanwhile, some have mobilized around what GOP leaders have labeled an invasion at the southern border.

I asked Onishi about a protest to Texas.

BRAD ONISHI: role in what they take to be the story that is unfolding in the United States.

Christian nationalists understand themselves to be playing a character.

They are drawn into a narrative that says, you are at the last battle.

You have a chance to do something that is much bigger than you.

Will you answer that call?

Will you come to D.C. on Januar Will you ride with us to the southern border?

Because these are the moments, these are the battles that will This is the cosmic war between good and evil.

Are you really going to sit on the sidelines?

Some of us can laugh that off.

We can think that that's And some of the events we have seen since then, the swatting of judges' houses, the evacuations of capitols due to bomb threats, so many more examples, little fires everywhe are not things we can laugh off.

And so I think the trucker st andoff between Governor Abbott and the Biden administration.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Brad Onishi, thank you for your time.

BRAD ONISHI: Thanks so much for having me.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: More than one billion users around the world may find that TikTok is a bit less fun than it was just yesterday.

As John Yang tells us, it's tied to a major showdown bet record label.

JOHN YANG: One of the world's without some of the world's most popular music.

Starting today, songs licensed by Universal Music Group are being removed from TikTok, including some of the biggest names in music like The Weeknd or Ariana Grande, also disappearing, songs that have become viral trends, generating millions of views on the platform, like Taylor Swift's "Shake It Off," Rihanna's "If it's Lovin' That You Want," or Olivia Rodrigo's "Bad Idea Right.?"

Now users say scrolling through The takedown has already begun.

Search for Taylor Swift's account, for e are muted, and the sounds tab on her profile is empty.

It's all because Universal and TikTok haven't been able to agree on a new licensing agreement to replace the one that expired Wednesday.

Universal says it's pushing TikTok on three issues, compensation for arti protecting artists from harmful effects of A.I.

music creation, and protecting users fr In a statement, the company said: "TikTok attempted to bully us into accepting a deal worth less than the previous deal, far less than fair market value, and not reflective of their exponential growth."

TikTok fired back, saying it "has been able to r other label and publisher.

Clearly, Universal's self-serving and fans."

Completely removing Universal lice to accomplish.

Ben Sisario co Ben, we have heard this is -- they're trying to negotiate a licensed music on TikTok.

What are the sticking points?

What's keeping them apart?

BEN SISARIO, points.

The first on They have as to pay what they consider an adequate royalty.

The other has to do with concerns over A.I.

in music, artificial intelligence.

Universal says that TikTok has allowed its platform to be flooded with A.I.-generated music, which crowds out music by real people and also dilutes the royalty pool.

JOHN YANG: So, Universal says they're doing this for the artists, but what do the artists feel about this?

Are these th BEN SISARIO: Well, if yo answer will always be yes.

But artists are a bit conflicted in this.

And some of them have started to speak o Noah Kahan, who is nominated for a Grammy for video talking about it.

And the indicati It's the place where songs become hits now.

It's a very vibrant social platform that's popular with young people.

And the way that a song can spread and go viral there is really key to the way the music industry works these days.

So artists like TikTok.

They like how it works.

They like that tha They may not even know some of the details about the rights disputes, the copyright the royalty issues.

They -- I think that they are generall them, but they're very worried about being kicked off the platform and what impact that will have on their careers.

JOHN YANG: Look at it from Ti How important is it to TikTok to have this musi BEN SISARIO: It's very important.

And Universal is the biggest record company Th ey have Taylor Swift.

They have Olivia Rodrigo's.

They have Billie Eilish.

They have Dr They're not the only r They're very powerful.

And they hap And part -- if you're TikTok, part of what you're pitching to consumers is the ability to get pretty much any song you want and use it in your own video.

And users expect this.

They want this from TikTok.

That's part of the reason th this material.

So they certainly want i But unlike something like Spotify, whose main purpose TikTok is a different kind of service.

It's one where users create their own content and they use mus Sometimes, it's just in the background.

Sometimes, they're dancing, lip- So there's a lot that people can do on TikTok even without these artists' Bu t I think TikTok is going to be concerned about pushing the limit of that and whether -- if this drags on for a long time, whether its users will start to get frustrated.

JOHN YANG: If this does drag on for a long time, which side stands to lose the most, Universal or TikTok?

BEN SISARIO: I mean, Universal says that TikTok's - percent of their total.

And I will bet it's ac doesn't pay a huge amount of money.

Their exact deals are confidential.

But it's well-known in the industry that can help a song become a hit that then makes more money elsewhere, but that TikTok itself is not the biggest generator of revenue.

But nobody wants to lose that promotional outlet.

Nobody wants to be out of the arena.

I think Universal does stand to lose quite a bit in ter I think it will hurt them with their artists if their stance winds up costing artists the promotion that they want.

On the other hand, TikTok th e content there so that their users can play with it.

I think both sides have a lot to lose here.

JOHN YANG: TikTok was able to make a deal with Why is it difficult now with Universal?

BEN SISARIO: Well, we don't know all the t We know that Warner said at the time they were very pleased with it.

But Universal has come out very aggressively.

They posted a public statement two days ago unacceptable.

And neither side here, neither Bu t we know that Universal says that what TikTok was offering was unacceptable.

I think control is another part of it.

It's not just dollars and cents.

It's control over the content, That's always a very big part of negotiations with digital services like TikTok.

JOHN YANG: Ben Sisario of The New York Times.

Thanks very much, Ben.

BEN SISARIO: Thank you.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: One of the year's most honored films is "Killers of the Flower Moon," which tells some of the harrowing story of how Osage Indians were murdered in Oklahoma in the 1920s.

And one of the year's most acclaimed performances is by one of the film's stars, Lily Gladstone, who's already making some of her own history.

Jeffrey Brown reports for our arts and culture series, Canvas LILY GLADSTONE, Actress: I love everyone in this room right now.

Thank you.

JEFFREY BROW Academy Award nomination for best actress.

LILY GLADSTONE: Thank you all so much.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) JEFFREY BROW LILY GLADSTONE: That's one way to phrase it, yes, for sure.

(LAUGHTER) JEFFREY BROW LILY GLADSTO so many people, just the response across Indian country, people I have never do know.

It's just -- JEFFREY BROW Niro, is anything but heartwarming.

LILY GLADSTONE: Was he murdered?

LEONARDO DICAPRIO, Actor: Don't know.

LILY GLADSTONE: He tried to kill himself last year.

JEFFREY BROWN: "Killers of the Flower Moon," directed by Martin Scorsese and based on the bestselling 2017 book by David Grann, dramatizes the real-life history of the murders of dozens of Osage Indians, the precise number likely never to be known.

At stake, the oil discovered on Osage land and the riches that flowed from it.

LILY GLADSTONE: Are you scared of him?

LEONARDO DICAPRIO: My brother?

Who?

LILY GLADSTO LEONARDO DICAPRIO: Well, no.

No, he's a -- he's a king of the Osage Hills.

JEFFREY BROWN: Gladstone plays Mollie, an Osage woman whose life and family become caught in the violence and loss.

Did it feel like an important LI LY GLADSTONE: Oh, incredibly, incredibly.

It's -- every native nation in the United States has had some kind of history where, especially if you're resource-rich, if you have something that's of value, then what that relationship is with energy development.

JEFFREY BROWN: Yes, first, that's land itself LILY GLADSTONE: Right.

Right.

Yes, land it JEFFREY BROW Gladstone grew up on the Blackfeet Reservation in Montana jus itself built partly on former Blackfeet land.

Daughter of a Blackfeet nation father and white mother who'd come to the to teach, she refers to her childhood self as a nerdy rez kid who couldn't wait for the annual visit of the Missoula Children's Theatre, which gave kids an opportunity to put on a play.

LILY GLADSTO Yes, it was a little -- it was hard to place Then, suddenly, I had purpose.

Suddenly, like, kids were That's cool.

JEFFREY BROW and then in college at the University of Montana.

LILY GLADSTONE: So the Marines recruited you to I was asked early on by my adviser in college if I was going roles and warned me that I would be pigeonholed if I did so.

And I have always resisted that, because I'm like, well, Native people are capabl We have doctors, we have lawyers.

We pop up every aspect of humanity.

So whatever character I play is naturally going to be imbued with being a Native woman, at least a little bit.

So, it's -- even if I am kind an d breaking those boundaries, breaking the frame.

I just knew, if I didn't start driving, I JEFFREY BROWN: She garnered notice in independent films, inc an extraordinary ability to convey so much depth in the slightest change of expression.

"Killers of the Flower Moon" is her first major studio film, collaborating with the likes of Scorsese, DiCaprio and De Niro.

LILY GLADSTONE: There's going to be an element of impostor syndrome w thrust in the middle of the circle with these incredibly renowned actors.

And... JEFFREY BROW LILY GLADSTONE: A bit.

But I had to (LAUGHTER) LILY GLADSTO and also the level of, like, questioning, it was refreshing to know that artists are constantly a little bit challenged and haunted by their work.

And it just felt at a certain point that I'd be doing these human beings be uber-famous, uber-renowned in their field, they're also searching, striving artists that need questions answered, and I was doing them a disservice if I was a little bit too leaned back or too nervous.

I had to bring something to the table too.

JEFFREY BROWN: Another vital collaboration, she says, was with the Osage so me of whom advised the director and actors along the way.

Gladstone says she and the others were concerned to get it right and honor the Os and their history.

(through transla ACTRESS (through translator): LI LY GLADSTONE (through translat I know that each one of these stories, while there's a universality that can be found in it, there's definitely common ground that you can draw from as a Native person from any nation in the states, it's also very specifically an Osage story and needed to be handled with just the utmost care and involvement.

JEFFREY BROWN: It is inevitably difficult terrai Because even with all the critical praise and acceptance, there's some sk even of, again, a story of Native trauma, in which the white people are centered.

LILY GLADSTONE: It's incredibly important that we're in a time where we have these incredible films and incredible television series that are led and crafted by indigenous people.

And it's also highly important that we have somebody as influential and as historic as Martin Scorsese caring about this history.

And, ultimately, what matters most to me and really, if I could sum u of the film that mattered to me, the one person that I wanted to make happy, it was Margie Burkhart, Mollie's granddaughter, and then Osage community as a whole.

And I have been really touched to find just how protective the community has become of this film.

JEFFREY BROWN: Lily Glad actress award at the Golden Globes.

She greeted the crowd in the Blackfeet language, sa My name is Eagle Woman.

I'm from the Blackfeet N LILY GLADSTONE: I'm really thankful that seeing -- like, shifting the lens and shifting the focus into characters that have been on the fringe historically.

That's where -- th It's where the stories that really r LEONARDO DICAPRIO: You know, you got nice color of skin.

What color would you say that is?

LILY GLADSTONE: My color.

JEFFREY BROWN: Next month, Fo r the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Jeffrey Brown in New York.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: And that is the "NewsHour" for tonight.

Join us tomorrow for Amna Nawaz's interview with the vice president of El Salvador about his country's controversial crackdown on gangs.

I'm William Brangham.

On behalf of the e Good night.