>> Reilly: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON," I'M ADAM REILLY, IN FOR JIM BRAUDE.

AS CANADIAN TRUCKERS AND ONE FAMOUS TENNIS PLAYER FIGHT VACCINE MANDATES, AND MANY OTHERS PUSH FOR A RETURN TO SOME KIND OF NORMAL, YOUNG KIDS ARE STILL WAITING TO GET ACCESS TO THE SHOTS, AND THOUSANDS OF AMERICANS ARE STILL DYING FROM THE VIRUS EVERY DAY.

TWO LOCAL DOCTORS JOIN ME ON ALL OF THAT.

THEN, LATER, THE DIRECTORS OF THE NEW FRONTLINE FILM, "AMERICAN RECKONING," WHICH TAKES A LOOK BACK AT A BLACK-LED LIBERATION MOVEMENT IN 1960s MISSISSIPPI AND THE STILL UNRESOLVED MURDER OF NAACP LEADER WHARLEST JACKSON.

♪♪ >> Reilly: CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN TRUDEAU HAS DECLARED A STATE OF EMERGENCY, INVOKING CERTAIN EMERGENCY POWERS FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THE COUNTRY'S HISTORY OVER THE WEEKS-LONG TRUCKER PROTESTS AGAINST VACCINE MANDATES THAT HAVE BEEN BLOCKING THREE MAJOR BORDER CROSSINGS BETWEEN CANADA AND THE U.S. >> EVERYTHING IS ON THE TABLE BECAUSE THIS UNLAWFUL ACTIVITY HAS TO END.

>> IT IS FIVE DAYS AND IT IS TAKING A TOLL ON TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

WHILE PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO PROTEST, THEY DON'T HAVE A RIGHT TO ILLEGALLY BLOCK THE LARGEST LAND BORDER CROSSING IN NORTH AMERICA.

>> Reilly: BUT WHILE THOSE PROTESTORS HAVE BEEN FIGHTING TOOTH AND NAIL TO AVOID GETTING THE VACCINE, AS IS TENNIS GREAT NOVAK DJOKOVIC, WHO NOW SAYS THAT MISSING TOURNAMENTS IS A PRICE HE'S WILLING TO PAY TO AVOID GETTING THE SHOTS, HERE IN THE U.S., MANY FAMILIES ARE ANXIOUS TO GET THEIR YOUNG CHILDREN VACCINATED.

BUT DESPITE PREDICTIONS OF A POSSIBLE EMERGENCY APPROVAL OF THE PFIZER SHOT FOR KIDS FIVE AND UNDER NEXT MONTH, THE F.D.A.

IS NOW SAYING THEY NEED MORE INFORMATION TO MAKE THEIR FINAL DECISION, WHICH THE AGENCY HAS PUSHED BACK TO APRIL, AT THE EARLIEST.

SO FOR YOUNG KIDS AND THEIR PARENTS, IT'S MORE OF THE SAME.

>> THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO CONTINUE TO REMAIN VIGILANT IF THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THE RISK OF INFECTION.

>> Reilly: STILL, MANY OTHERS ARE ITCHING TO GET BACK TO NORMAL, OR SOMETHING APPROACHING, AND DOZENS OF REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS ARE CALLING ON PRESIDENT BIDEN TO OFFICIALLY RESCIND THE FEDERAL PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY DECLARATION, WRITING IN A LETTER, ACCORDING TO N.P.R., "WE CALL ON YOUR ADMINISTRATION TO DO WHAT SO MANY STATES AND OTHER COUNTRIES ALREADY HAVE: ACCEPT THAT COVID-19 IS ENDEMIC."

BUT THAT MAY NOT MEAN QUITE WHAT SOME PEOPLE THINK.

I'M JOINED NOW BY DR. CASSANDRA PIERRE, MEDICAL DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC HEALTH PROGRAMS AT BOSTON MEDICAL CENTER, AND DR. JEREMY FAUST, AN EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN AT BRIGHAM AND WOMEN'S HOSPITAL AND INSTRUCTOR AT HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL.

>> Reilly: THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE.

CASSANDRA, TWO QUESTIONS FOR YOU OFF THE BAT: IS IT CORRECT TO SAY THAT COVID HAS NOW BECOME ENDEMIC, AND IF SO, WHAT DOES THAT MEEBMEAN IN TEMPS TERMS OF HOW OUR RESPONSE TO COVID TO SHIFT.

>> IT IS NOT CORRECT TO SAY HERE IN THE UNITED STATES THAT COVID IS ENDEMIC.

COVID IN THE ENDEMIC STATE WOULD IMPLY WE HAVE ACHIEVED A STATE IN WHICH COVID SURGES ARE PREDICTABLE, AND EVENTUALLY SEASONAL, AND DOES NOT OVERWHELM OUR HEALTH CARE AND DECIMATE OUR WORKFORCE.

IT IS TRUE THAT IN OTHER COUNTRIES, THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO EXPERIENCE WHAT THE RELAXATION OF RESTRICTIONS ARE, WITH LESS UPHEAVALS OR SURGES IN COVID-19 NUMBERS.

SO WHEN COVID-19 REACHES ENDEMIC CITY OR ENDEMIC STATE IN ONE AREA, IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT ALL AREAS ARE IN THAT, AND WE'RE NOT AT THAT STAGE NOW.

>> Reilly: JEREMY FAUST, CHRISTIAN ANDERSONED ANDERSON COINED APHRASE ON TWITTER "ENDEMIC DELUSION," THE DELUSIONAL BELIEF THAT THE PANDEMIC IS OVER, AND THAT WE CAN GET BACK TO PRE-2019, BY SUPPRESSING THE FACT WE NEED TO FIGHT THE VIRUS.

AND HE CITED A BUNCH OF COVID DEATHS, GOING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION, EVEN THOUGH DENMARK ANNOUNCED THAT COVID WAS NO LONGER A THREAT TO SOCIETY.

IN YOUR MIND, IS ENDEMIC SOLUTION A PROBLEM IN THE UNITED STATES AND OTHER AREAS?

>> IT IS CERTAINLY BECOMING ONE BECAUSE IF PEOPLE HAVE THE MISTAKEN BELIEF THAT THINGS ARE NORMAL, THEY WILL BEHAVE THAT WAY AND THEY WILL SOON UNDERSTAND THE CONSEQUENCES OF THAT.

WE'RE JUST IN THE TAIL END, I HOPE, OF THIS OMICRON WAVE, WHICH WAS NOTHING LIKE ENDEMIC.

WE HAVE IN THIS STATE ALL-CAUSED MORALITY.

MORE DEATHS THAN USUAL, NOT JUST COVID DEATHS.

WE KNOW WHAT IS DRIVING THAT, AND IT'S COVID.

SO TO SAY THAT THINGS ARE BACK TO NORMAL WOULD IMPLY THAT THE USUAL RATE OF HOSPITALIZATIONS AND THE USUAL RATE OF DEATHS THAT ANY JURISDICTION CAN PREDICTABLY EXPECT, WHICH IS SOMETHING WE'VE BEEN TRACKING FOR A CENTURY -- ENDEMIC IMPLIES WER BACK TO NORMAL, AND THE NUMBERS ARE VERY CLEAR: WER WE'RE NOWHERE NEAR NORMAL.

AND IF WE THINK WE'RE NORMAL AND ACT ACCORDINGLY, WE'LL PAY THE CONSEQUENCES FOR THAT.

>> Reilly: THIS IS A TWEET THAT YOU SENT AFTER A RECENT APPEARANCE ON CNN IN WHICH YOU GENTLY BUT FIRMLY PUSH BACK ON THE WAY THEY CHARACTERIZED YOUR TAKE ON WHEN YOU'LL BE READY TO GET YOUR YOUNG CHILD VACCINATED.

I THINK WE HAVE AN IMAGE OF THE TWEET HERE.

BASICALLY, THEY HAD SAID THAT YOU WILL ABSOLUTELY NOT VACCINATE YOUR CHILD UNTIL IT IS PROVEN THAT THE VACCINE WORKS, AND YOU AMENDED THAT TO SAY I ABSOLUTELY VACCINATE MY CHILD WHEN PROVEN THAT IT WORKS.

I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO EXPLAIN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THOSE TWO TAKES.

I THINK I GET IT, BUT ITWANT TO MAKEIWANT TO MAKE SURE I'M RIGHT.

WHAT IS YOUR POSITION OF GETTING YOUR CHILD VACCINATED WHEN IT IS APPROVED?

>> THE F.D.A.

MADE THE RIGHT DECISION, AND PFIZER MADE THE RIGHT DECISION, TO NOT ASSESS THE DATA RIGHT NOW BECAUSE AS I WAS SAYING, MOVING AHEAD WITH AN AUTHORIZATION BEFORE WE KNEW THE DOSE FOR CHILDREN UNDER FIVE WAS A VERY, VERY BAD IDEA.

THAT'S WHEN I MEANT WHEN I SAID WE WOULD ABSOLUTELY NOT DO IT.

BECAUSE WE WANT TO KNOW THAT THE DOSE WE'RE GIVING OUR DAUGHTER IS SAFE, WHICH WE KNOW IT ALREADY IS, BASED ON WHAT THEY'VE SHOWN US, BUT ALSO AFFECTIVE.

SO MY STRONG LANGUAGE WAS ACTUALLY KIND OF LEVIED AT A POLICY FROM THE F.D.A.

AND PFIZER THAT I VIGOROUSLY DISAGREED WITH.

BUT I ACTUALLY WROTE AGAIN RECENTLY TO SAY, MAYBE I SHOULD HAVE SOFTENED MY LANGUAGE TO REFLECT THAT TWEET.

TO SAY THAT WE WILL DO IT WHEN...AND MANY PARENTS WANT THAT.

FOR FIVE AND UP WE HAVE FANTASTIC DATA TO SHOW THAT THE VACCINES ARE SAFE AND EFFICACIOUS, BUT THE UPTAKE IS VERY, VERY LOW.

SO IF WE'RE GOING TO PROCEED WITH A VACCINE FOR UNDER FIVE, WE BETTER HAVE ROCK-SOLID DATA TO SHOW ITS BENEFIT AND ITS SAFETY.

I THINK WE'LL HAVE THAT IN THE SPRING, BUT I WON'T MOVE FORWARD WITHOUT THAT AND I THINK A LOT OF PARENTS WILL AGREE.

>> Reilly: I SAID AT THE OUTSET THAT WE WERE LOOKING AT VACCINE APPROVAL FOR KIDS FIVE AND UNDER, THAT THAT WAS STILL PENDING.

BUT, IN FACT, KIDS FIVE AND UP CAN CURRENTLY GET IT.

I WANT TO STRESS THAT.

CASSANDRA, YOU HAVE YOUNG CHILDREN AS WELL.

WHAT HAS YOUR FAMILY'S BEEN -- OR WHAT WILL YOUR FAMILY'S APPROACH BE WHEN IT COMES TO THEM GETTING VACCINATED?

>> SO, YOU KNOW, IT IS KIND OF BORING WHEN PEOPLE AGREE, BUT IN THIS CASE, I DO AGREE THAT WE SHOULD WAIT, IN GENERAL, FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC TO HAVE GOOD, SCIENTIFIC DATA ON EFFICACY AND SAFETY FOR CHILDREN UNDER THE AGE OF FIVE, IF WE'RE GOING AHEAD WITH THE APPROVAL OR AUTHORIZATION IN THIS AGE GROUP.

THAT BEING SAID, I CHOSE A DIFFERENT TACT.

I AM A BLACK WOMEN WITH BLACK CHILDREN, AND WE KNOW THAT CHILDREN OF COLOR HAVE BEEN DISPROPORTIONATELY IMPACTED COMPARED TO OTHER RACES, WITH REGARD TO COVID HOSPITALIZATIONS AND DEATHS.

AND I ALSO HAVE A CHILD WITH AN UNDERLYING HEALTH CONDITION.

AND I'VE ALSO BEEN A PARTICIPANT OF THE COVID VACCINE CHILD.

SO WHEN THERE WAS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR MY CHILDREN TO BE ENROLLED, I TOOK IT.

BECAUSE I TRUSTED SAFETY, AND THE QUESTION FOR ME WAS ABOUT EFFICACY.

AND SO THEY ARE ACTUALLY PARTICIPANTS IN THE VACCINE TRIAL.

I FOLLOWED IT EVERY STEP OF THE WAY, EVEN PRIOR TO THEIR ENROLLMENT, IN THE OLDER AGE GROUP.

AND THE PLAN IS -- OR THE PLAN WAS -- WHEN WE WERE AT THE POINT OF WHERE THE VACCINES WERE APPROVED, WE INTENDED TO GET VACCINATED IF ONE OF OUR CHILDREN OR BOTH WERE NOT PART OF A PATIENT TO BE -- IF THEY WERE NOT RANDOMIZED TO THE VACCINE MARK.

WITH THAT SAID, I FELT IT WAS IMPORTANT TO, AS A PRIVILEGE, TO GET THEM INVOLVED IN THIS STUDY, AND TO INCREASE REPRESENTATION OF CHILDREN OF COLOR IN THE TRIAL DATA.

>> Reilly: I WANT TO ASK YOU BOTH ABOUT WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN WHEN THE VACCINE IS APPROVED, ASSUMING THAT IT IS, FOR KIDS WHO ARE UNDER FIVE.

UPTAKE SO FAR IN THE YOUNGEST AGE GROUP THAT CAN CURRENTLY GET IT, THE FIVE TO 11 AGE GROUP, IS NOT TERRIFIC HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS.

IT IS NOT THAT NO ONE IS GETTING THE VACCINE FOR THEIR KIDS.

I THINK 52% OF KIDS AGED FIVE TO 11 HAVE GOTTEN AT LEAST ONE COVID VACCINE DOSE.

I SHOULD MENTION BY THE WAY, MY YOUNGER CHILD IS 11, AND SHE HAS RECEIVED TWO DOSES, AND WILL GET A BOOSTER AS SOON AS THAT IS RECOMMENDED FOR THAT AGE GROUP.

FOR 12 TO 18, IT IS 84%, AND FOR ALL OTHER RESIDENTS, IT IS 87%.

I'M WONDERING WHAT YOU TWO THINK OF HOW EAGER PARENTS OF VERY YOUNG CHILDREN WILL ACTUALLY GET THE VACCINE FOR THEM WHEN IT BECOMES AVAILABLE?

JEREMY, YOU GO FIRST.

>> ONE THING FOR THE PARENTS TO THINK ABOUT IS HOW DANGEROUS THIS VIRUS IS.

THERE IS THIS SENTIMENT THAT IT IS JUST THE FLU.

IF YOU LOOK AHEAD, WE DON'T HAVE TO GUESS.

WE HAVE MANDATORY REPORTING FOR PEDIATRIC FLU DEATHS AND FOR COVID.

SINCE SEPTEMBER IN THE UNITED STAT DELTA PERIOD, WE HAD 300 PEDIATRIC DEATHS IN THE UNITED STATES.

DURING THE FLU SEASON, WE HAD FIVE.

THE BURDEN IS 60 TIMES MORE FATALITY FOR COVID.

I THINK PARENTS WANT TO HEAR THAT.

ALL OF THE THINGS THEY GET, MEASLES, MUMPS, RUBELLA, KILLED FAR FEWER KIDS A YEAR THE YEAR BEFORE THOSE VACCINES WERE ROLLED OUT THAN COVID IS KILLING NOW.

THAT WE HAVE THIS UNUSUALLY HIGH STANDARD FOR COVID VACCINATION IS BECAUSE OF POLITICS, BUT I THINK PARENTS WILL BE MOVED IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION WHEN THEY HAVE THE RIGHT INFORMATION, THAT COVID IS A FAR MORE DNCHESZDANGEROUS DISEASE FOR CHILDREN THAN ANYTHING ELSE.

>> Reilly: DO YOU THINK THAT WILL MAKE THE PARENTS OF YOUNG KIDS SAY, OKAY, LET'S GET AS MANY DOSES AS WE CAN, CASSANDRA?

>> I THINK THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THINGS.

I THINK SCIENCE IS CRITICAL.

BUT SCIENCE IS NOT THE ONLY THING.

WE'VE SEEN THAT WITH PRIOR OLDER AGE GROUPS, WITH REGARDS TO MESSAGING REGARDING SCIENCE ESSENTIALLY NOT BEING ENOUGH.

I WANT TO UNDERSCORE THAT THE NUMBERS YOU JUST SHOWED, THE GENERAL NUMBERS, OBSCURED THERE ARE WORSE NUMBERS IN SUBSETS OF THE POPULATION.

HERE IN BOSTON, WE HAVE A 30% TO 40% GAP IN VACCINATING CHILDREN OF COLOR COMPARED TO OTHER RACES AND ETHNICITIES.

AND THOSE ARE THE CHILDREN THAT ARE GOING TO SUFFER THE MAJORITY OF COMPLICATIONS FROM COVID-19, RELATIVE TO OTHER KIDS IN THEIR AGE RANGE.

SO WHEN PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN TO PARENTS OF COLOR IN THE PAST, IN ADDITION TO WAITING FOR MISINFORMATION AND DISINFORMATION AND EDUCATING ABOUT SCIENCE, THE OTHER ISSUES THAT HAVE COME UP HAVE BEEN ACCESS.

FOR MANY PEOPLE IN MASSACHUSETTS, WE THINK WE'VE HANDLED ACCESS, WE'VE PUT VACCINES IN RETAIL PHARMACIES, IN COMMUNITY-EMBEDDED SITES, WE HAVE MOBILE VACCINATION UNITS.

AND THAT BEING SAID, WE KNOW THAT MANY PARENTS ARE WORKING PARENTS, AND THEY DON'T HAVE TIME TO TAKE TIME OFF TO GET THEIR OWE PREVENTIVE MEDICINE, AND THEY'RE GOING TO THEIR CHILDREN'S PEDIATRICIAN, WHICH ARE THE PREFERRED WAYS.

SO IN ADDITION TO SCIENCE AND MESSAGING, DISPELLING MISINFORMATION AND DISINFORMATION IS CRITICAL, AND WE LOOK TO ACCESS, WHICH IS DEFINED A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY THAN WE DEFINED EARLIER.

>> Reilly: I WANT TO CLOSE WITH A BIG QUESTION THAT WE ONLY HAVE A MINUTE OR MINUTE AND A HALF TO ANSWER BETWEEN THE TWO OF YOU.

WE HAVE GOTTEN THROUGH THE DELTA VARIANT.

WE HAVE SEEN, JEREMY, AS YOU SAID A MOMENT AGO, WE'RE ON THE VIRGE HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS OF GETTING THROUGH THE OMICRON VARIANT.

AS WE MOVE AHEAD INTO WHATEVER THE NEXT FEW MONTHS LOOK LIKE, SHOULD WE COLLECTIVELY BE BRACING FOR PERHAPS LATER IN THE YEAR, PERHAPS NEXT YEAR, ANOTHER VARIANT THAT WILL COME AND HIT US AND HIT US HARD AND MAKE US LOOK FOR DRASTIC MITIGATION MEASURES ONCE AGAIN?

JEREMY, WHY DON'T YOU TAKE FIRST CRACK AT THIS AND WE'LL GIVE CASSANDRA THE LAST WORD.

>> I THINK VARIANTS ARE INEVITABLE.

I BELIEVE OUR RESPONSE TO THEM IS GOING TO BECOME MORE NIMBLE AND TAILOR-MADE FOR EACH ONE.

WE'RE GETTING BETTER AT THIS.

AND EACH TIME IT HAPPENS, WE NEED TO BE WILLING TO STEP IT UP.

THERE IS A LOT OF TALK DEESCALATION OR MITIGATION, AND I WON'T GET INTO THAT, BUT WHATEVER HAPPENS, WE NEED TO BE WILLING TO PUT THE HEAT BACK UP ON THESE MEASURES QUICKLY IF NEEDED.

SO IF PEOPLE DECIDE TO TAKE OFF THEIR MASKS, THEY HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE MASK MAY HAVE TO COME ON IN THE FUTURE FOR A LITTLE WHILE.

WE HAVE TO SAY, LOOK, IN THE FUTURE, YOU MAY HAVE TO STOP THAT FOR JUST A LITTLE WHILE.

THE IDEA IS TO DO AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE BUT AS MUCH AS NEEDED, AND I THINK THAT IS THE RIGHT SIZING WE NOW CAN DO THAT WE COULD NOT DO BEFORE.

>> Reilly: CASSANDRA, WHAT THE DOWHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> I COULDN'T AGREE MORE.

THE FACT THAT WE HAVE COVID-19 IN ANIMAL POPULATIONS AS WELL THAT MAY ALSO TRANSMIT IN VARIANTS BACK TO US, AS WE SAID FROM THE BEGINNING, GLOBAL VACCINATION IS REALLY CRITICAL AND KEY TO REALLY DAMPENING THE TRANSMISSION OF WHICH WE'RE SEEING IN THESE VARIANTS.

THERE ARE COUNTRIES IN OUR OWN HEMISPHERE, HATETIS HAITI, 1% OF THE POPULATION, AND IT IS VERY CONCERNING BOTH FOR THAT COUNTRY AND ALSO FOR THE WORLD.

>> Reilly: WOW.

>> IN TERMS OF THE ABILITY TO HAVE ONGOING SPREAD AND TRANSMISSION OF A VIRUS THAT LEADS TO, YOU KNOW, MUTATIONS AND VARIANTS THAT COULD EVENTUALLY THREATEN US.

SO IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE MOVE BOTH TOWARDS BETTER GLOBAL VACCINE EQUITY, AND ALSO, AS MY COLLEAGUE JUST SAID, ENSURING THERE ARE BENCHMARKS IN PLACE, AND PEOPLE ARE AWARE THEY MAY HAVE TO GO BACK TO THOSE MITIGATION MEASURES IN THE FUTURE.

>> Reilly: CASSANDRA PIERRE AND JEREMY FAUST, THANK YOU BOTH FOR ALL OF THIS.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Reilly: IN THE SUMMER OF 1965, A VIOLENT ATTACK AGAINST A LOCAL NAACP LEADER INSPIRED THE BLACK RESIDENTS OF NATCHEZ, MISSISSIPPI, TO USE ARMED RESISTANCE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES AGAINST LOCAL WHITE SUPREMACISTS.

THEY ALSO ORGANIZED AN ECONOMIC BOYCOTT THAT WON SOME BIG CONCESSIONS FROM THE CITY.

BUT LESS THAN TWO YEARS LATER, THIS FIGHT CLAIMED THE LIFE OF NAACP WHARLEST JACKSON, SR., A 36-YEAR-OLD FATHER OF FIVE.

AND FIFTY-FIVE YEARS LATER, HIS MURDER REMAINS OFFICIALLY UNSOLVED.

JACKSON'S STORY, NATCHEZ'S FIGHT FOR CIVIL RIGHTS, AND THE LARGELY UNSUCCESSFUL FEDERAL PUSH TO SOLVE COLD-CASE RACIST MURDERS ARE FEATURED IN THE NEW FRONTLINE DOCUMENTARY "AMERICAN RECKONING."

>> LIVING IN NATCHEZ EVERYTHING WAS SEPARATED.

BLACKS WAS ON ONE SIDE, WHITES WAS ON THE OTHER SIDE.

>> MY MOTHER AND FATHER TRIED TO SHIELD US FROM A LOT OF STUFF GOING ON, A LOT OF VIOLENCE THAT I WAS GOING ON AT THAT PARTICULAR TIME.

>> SOUTHWEST MISSISSIPPI, NATCHEZ AND CONCORDIA, PARIS IN THE 1960s, WERE SORT OF LIKE THIS FRONTIER REGION WHERE PEOPLE STILL LIVED BY VIGILANTISM, AND IT HAD NEVER BEEN CHALLENGED.

YOU HAD A HUGE KLAN POPULATION IN THIS AREA, AND THAT'S THE WAY THINGS WERE.

>> THEY WERE VERY QUICK TO EXTREME VIOLENCE.

THEY FELT VERY COMFORTABLE SLAUGHTERING PEOPLE AND KNOWING THEY WOULD GET AWAY WITH IT.

>> Reilly: THE FILM'S CO-DIRECTORS AND PRODUCERS, YORUBA RICHEN AND BRAD LIECHTENSTEIN JOIN ME NOW.

>> Reilly: THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE.

THE FILM IS INCREDIBLY POWERFUL, AND I'M HAPPY I GET A CHANCE TO ASK YOU SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT IT.

YORUBA, LET ME START WITH YOU: HOW DOES WHAT HAPPENED IN NATCHEZ IN THE 1960s SHIFT THE NARRATIVE OR COMPLICATE THE NARRATIVE THAT WE'VE BECOME ACCUSTOMED TO ABOUT THE WAY THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT WORKED?

>> YEAH.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

I THINK WHAT IS SO FASCINATING ABOUT THIS STORY IS HOW THE STRUGGLES -- THE BLACK STRUGGLE THAT TOOK PLACE IN NATCHEZ DURING THIS TIME INVOLVED -- FIRST OFF, WE TELL THE STORY OF THE FOOT SOLDIERS OF THE MOVEMENT, AND WHARLEST WAS ONE OF THEM, PEOPLE WHO WE DON'T REALLY HEAR ABOUT WHO WERE ON THE GROUND WORKING FOR CHANGE.

THAT IS ONE WAY IT COMPLICATES THE NARRATIVE.

THESE STRUGGLES WERE HAPPENING ALL OVER THE COUNTRY, ALL OVER THE SOUTH, AND WE GET TO TELL THE STORY OF ONE MAN.

BUT IT ALSO COMPLICATES THE NARRATIVE BECAUSE WHARLEST WORKED WITH AN ORGANIZATION CALLED THE BEACONS FOR DESCENT, WHICH WAS AN ARMED BLACK RESISTANCE GROUP THAT PROTECTED THE COMMUNITY FROM THE WHITE TERRORISM, THE KLAN TERRORISM THAT WAS HAPPENING AT THE TIME.

AND THEY DID NOT ADHERE TO THE STRATEGY OF, YOU KNOW, DON'T FIGHT BACK.

THEY HAD TO FIGHT BACK IN ORDER TO SURVIVE.

AND USE ARMED RESISTANCE T DO THAT.

AND THEY ALSO ENFORCED A BOYCOTT THAT THE BLACK CITIZENS OF NATCHEZ HAD STARTED AGAINST THE WHITE COMMUNITY TO MAKE DEMAND FOR CHANGES.

AND THE DEACONS FORCED THAT BOYCOTT AND IT WAS VERY SUCCESSFUL, AND THEY WON THEIR DEMANDS.

AND THEIR BOYCOTT WAS ACTUALLY MODELED IN OTHER PLACES ACROSS THE STATE.

>> Reilly: THEY, IF I RECALL CORRECTLY, GOT EVERYTHING THEY WANTED.

AFTER INITIALLY BEING REBUFFED, THE BOYCOTT WORKED.

AND THEN WE MOVE ON TO THE MURDER OF WHARLEST JACKSON.

BRAD, ONE OF THE BIG QUESTIONS POSED FOR ME WAS WHETHER THIS FEDERAL PUSH TO INVESTIGATE COLD-CASE, RACIST MURDERS, MORE THAN 100 OF THEM, THAT STARTED BACK IN THE LATE 2000s, WHETHER THAT PUSH WAS WORTH IT, OR IF IT WASN'T WORTH IT, WHETHER IT MAY HAVE DONE MORE HARM THAN GOOD.

WHERE DO YOU COME DOWN ON THAT?

>> WELL, I'M NOT SURE WHERE I COME DOWN EXACTLY, BUT I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT.

THE COLD CASE INITIATIVE WAS PUSHED BY JOHN LEWIS WHEN HE WAS IN CONGRESS, THE LATE CONGRESSMAN JOHN LEWIS, WHO WAS REALLY, ACTUALLY, THE MOTIVATOR BEHIND THIS FILM IN THE FIRST PLACE.

IT CAME OUT OF A CONVERSATION WITH HIM.

AND, YOU KNOW, THE INTENTION, AS MR. LEWIS WOULD SAY, WAS THAT IF WE EXAMINE THESE CASES COULD EVEN JUST SURFACE ONE PERSON WHO HAD NOT UNTIL THAT TIME SPOKEN, THEN THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN WORTH IT.

BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, AS YOU SEE IN THE FILM, THE FACT THAT THERE WAS SO MUCH ATTENTION, ESPECIALLY IN 2008, WHEN THESE CASES WERE ANNOUNCED AS PART OF THE ACT, IT RETRAUMATIZES SOME PEOPLE AS WELL, AND THAT IS VERY DIFFICULT.

AND THEN, YOU KNOW, WHERE WE SIT NOW, WHERE THERE HAVE BEEN NO INDICTMENTS AS A RESULT OF ANY OF THE REEXAMINATIONS THUS FAR, AND THERE IS NOT A LOT OF HOPE THAT THERE WILL BE, BECAUSE COLD CASES ARE HARD, IT HAS BEEN A LONG TIME, A LOT OF THE PERPETRATORS ARE DEAD, AND THE PERPETRATOR IN WHARLEST JACKSON'S CASE IS DEAD.

SO I THINK YOU RAISED A LOT OF GOOD ISSUES.

JUST ONE NOTE: WHEN CONGRESSMAN LEWIS INTRODUCED THIS LEGISLATION, HE UNDERSTOOD WHAT WAS POLITICALLY VIABLE AT THAT TIME.

AND WHAT HE REALLY WANTED TO DO WAS TO HAVE A TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION PROCESS IN THIS COUNTRY, SIMILAR TO SOUTH AFRICA, AND TO OPEN A DOOR TO A CONVERSATION ABOUT REPARATIONS, WHICH IN 2008 WAS -- WELL, MY COLLEAGUE SAYS IT WAS FRINGE AT THE TIME.

TODAY WE'RE ACTUALLY HAVING THAT CONVERSATION, AND WE HOPE THIS FILMS ACTUALLY CONTRIBUTES TO THAT.

>> Reilly: I'M REALLY GLAD YOU MENTION THAT.

THANK YOU FOR MENTIONING THAT.

YORUBA, WHAT MADE THIS FILM SO RIVETING TO ME IS THE FOOTAGE OF EVERDAY LIFE OF WHAT IT MAY HAVE FELT LIKE IN NATCHEZ IN THE 1960s.

LET'S SHOW A LITTLE BIT OF THAT.

>> THIS IS A CLOSE-KNIT COMMUNITY HERE IN NATCHEZ.

AS A KID, FAMILY LIFE WAS ME AND MY SISTERS.

THE GIRLS WERE KIND OF TALKING TO ME AND WHATNOT, AND I COULD TAKE SO MUCH, BUT I WANTED TO GET OUT AND RIDE AROUND THE STREET WITH MY BICYCLE AND SEE WHAT IS GOING ON AROUND TOWN.

WE HAD HORSES.

WE HAD COWS.

WE HAD GOATS.

YOU KNOW, OF COURSE EVERYBODY IN THE COMMUNITY HAD FOOD.

WE SHARED LIKE THAT OUT HERE.

>> Reilly: YORUBA, HOW WERE YOU ABLE TO FIND FOOTAGE THIS DETAILED AND PROVOCATIVE?

>> YEAH, WHEN I FIRST SAW THIS FOOTAGE, I WAS PRETTY AMAZED.

AND BRAD IS ACTUALLY THE ONE WHO FOUND WHARLEST'S STORY, THAT HIS STORY WAS IN THE FILM "BLACK MATCHES," AND SUBSEQUENT OUTTAKES THAT THE FILMMAKERS DID AFTER WHARLEST'S FUNERAL.

BRAD, DO YOU WANT TO SAY HOW YOU FOUND OUT ABOUT THIS FOOTAGE?

>> SURE.

WHEN I FIRST WENT DOWN TO NATCHEZ, PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY WERE TELLING ME ABOUT THIS FILM BLACK MATCHES, THAT I HAD TO SEE.

IT IS MADE BY PEOPLE WHO ARE CHARACTER-DRIVEN STORY-TELLERS, MUCH LIKE YORUBA AND I AND A LOT OF THE FILMS WE MADE.

SO THEY FILMED "BLACK MATCHES" IN A WAY THAT AS YOU POINTER OUT POINT OUT IS SO RICH.

THEY REALLY CAMPED OUT IN THE COMMUNITY, AND THEY SPENT 10 WEEKS THERE FOR "BLACK MATCHES," AND WE ONLY USED ABOUT FOUR MINUTES FROM THE ACTUAL MOVIE.

SHORTLY AFTER WHARLEST JACKSON WAS MURDERED, ED RETURNS TO NATCHEZ AND STAYED FOR A COUPLE OF DAYS.

SO THAT WAS NOT SEEN BY ANYBODY UNTIL THIS FILM CAME OUT.

>> Reilly: IT IS MESMERIZING TO WATCH.

AND YOU HAVE SOME COMPROMISING FOOTAGE THE THATTHATIS VERY HARD TO WATCH, WITH WHITE KLAN MEMBERS.

CLOSING QUESTION FOR YOU, YORUBA, WE HEARD FROM WHARLEST JACKSON, JR., ABOUT THE IMPACT THEIR FATHERS MURDER THAT ON THE COURSE OF THEIR LIVES.

LET'S TAKE A LOOK.

>> I ACTUALLY HAD HATRED TOWARDS WHITE PEOPLE FOR A LONG TIME.

I BLAMED EVERY WHITE PERSON I EVER CAME IN CONTACT WITH.

>> IT TOOK MY LIFE DOWN A DIFFERENT AVENUE.

IT HAS BEEN REAL, REAL HARD, BUT YOU MOVE ON AND YOU PERSEVERE.

>> Reilly: ONE OF THE BIGGEST QUESTIONS PROPOSED BY THE FILM IS WHAT A JUST AMERICAN RECKONING WITH OUR LEGACY OF RACISM WOULD LOOK LIKE.

YORUBA, DO YOU HAVE THOUGHTS ON WHAT AN AFFECTIVE, GENUINE, MEANINGFUL RECKONING WOULD BE?

>> YEAH, I DO.

AND I THINK IT BEGS THE QUESTION -- IT BEGS US TO LOOK AT REPARATIONS, AND TO START TO REPAIR THE HARM.

THAT'S WHAT REP TRATIONS REPARATIONS IS FOR, IT'S MEANING OF IT, TO REPAIR THE HARM DONE TO THESE FAMILIES.

AND IT WAS NOT A LONG TIME AGO.

AND IN ADDITIONAL TO FINANCIAL REPARATIONS, WHAT ARE SERVICES THAT CAN BE GIVEN TO THESE FAMILIES WHO ARE STILL DEALING WITH THIS TRAUMA EVERY DAY.

AND SO THAT'S WHAT I THINK COULD BE A START.

AND THE TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION, WHERE WE HAVE PEOPLE COME FORWARD TO TELL THEIR STORIES, SO THESE FAMILIES ARE NOT LEFT IN THE DARK.

>> Reilly: DID YOU HAVE A SENSE, WHEN YOU WERE TALKING WITH THESE FAMILIES, IF THERE WERE TO BE A TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION, DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD WANT TO BE A PART OF THAT?

SPECIFICALLY WHARLEST JACKSON, HIS FAMILY?

>> I THINK THEY WOULD.

I THINK THEY WOULD.

THEY WANT THIS STORY TO GET OUT.

THEY ARE, UM, VERY PLEASED THAT THIS STORY IS AIRING, AND THAT THEIR TA FATHER'S LEGACY IS BEING HONORED.

>> Reilly: THANK YOU BOTH FOR TALKING THIS THROUGH.

THE FILM IS TERRIFIC.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Reilly: FRONTLINE AND RETRO REPORT'S DOCUMENTARY, "AMERICAN RECKONING," PREMIERES TONIGHT AT 10:00 HERE ON GBH 2 AND ONLINE AT pbs.org/Frontline, YouTube, AND IN THE PBS VIDEO APP.

THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT, BUT DO COME BACK TOMORROW.

JIM BRAUDE WILL BE BACK WITH THE NEW HOSTS OF "MORNING EDITION" ON 89.7 GBH, WITH PARIS ALSTON AND JEREMY SIEGEL AND THEIR NEW APPROACH TO THE N.P.R.

MAIN STAY HERE IN BOSTON.

THAT AND MORE TOMORROW AT 7:00.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

♪♪