>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & COMPANY."

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> WE KNOW FROM HISTORY THAT WHEN WE DON'T STAND UP TO DICTATORS, THEY KEEP GOING.

>> NATO ALLIES MEET IN BRUSSELS AS THE UKRAINE WAR ENDS ITS THIRD YEAR AND PLEDGED TO CONTINUE CONFRONTING RUSSIAN AGGRESSION.

KURT VOLKER AND FORMER SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER BREEDLOVE JOINS US.

>>> THEN ISRAELI FORCES ATTACK GAZA'S LARGEST STILL FUNCTIONING HOSPITAL.

>> I HAVE FAMILY MEMBERS TELLING ME DAY BY DAY HOW THEY'RE GETTING KILLED.

>> MICHEL MARTIN SPEAKS TO TARIQ HADAD ABOUT WHY HE REFUSED TO MEET SECRETARY OF STATE ANTONY BLINKEN.

ALSO AHEAD.

>>> IT SEEMS ALMOST NOTHING IS SAFE.

>> ANOTHER MASS SHOOTING IN AMERICA NEAR A SUPER BOWL PARADE.

MY CONVERSATION WITH HISTORIAN DOMINIC ERDOZAIN, AUTHOR OF "ONE NATION UNDER GUNS" ABOUT THE FETISH OF INDIVIDUAL OWNERSHIP.

>>> "AMANPOUR & COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT JIM ATWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS CANDACE KING WEIR THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS MARK J. BLECHNER THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION SETON J. MELVIN CHARLES ROSENBLUM KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS, AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

TODAY, NATO DEFENSE MINISTERS PRESENTED A UNITED FRONT IN BRUSSELS AS AMERICA CASTS A SHADOW OVER THE 75-YEAR ALLIANCE.

NOT ONLY FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP PUBLICLY UNDERMINING COLLECTIVE DEFENSE AND INVITING PRESIDENT PUTIN TO ATTACK ANY NATO NATION, BUT ALSO THE FAILURE OF CONGRESS TO PASS A MILITARY AID BILL FOR UKRAINE.

U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JAKE SULLIVAN EXPLAINED THE STAKES.

>> WE'VE BEEN INCREASINGLY GETTING REPORTS OF UKRAINIAN TROOPS RATIONING OR EVEN RUNNING OUT OF AMMUNITION ON THE FRONT LINES AS RUSSIAN FORCES CONTINUE TO ATTACK BOTH ON THE GROUND AND FROM THE AIR, TRYING TO WEAR DOWN THE UKRAINIAN AIR DEFENSES THAT WE'VE WORKED SO EXTENSIVELY TO BUILD UP OVER THE PAST TWO YEARS.

SO OUR ALLIES ARE WATCHING THIS CLOSELY.

OUR ADVERSARIES ARE WATCHING THIS CLOSELY.

THERE ARE THOSE WHO SAY U.S.

LEADERSHIP AND OUR ALLIANCE AND PARTNERSHIPS WITH COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD DON'T MATTER, SHOULD BE TORN UP OR WALKED AWAY FROM.

WE KNOW FROM HISTORY WHEN WE DON'T STAND UP TO DICTATORS, THEY KEEP GOING.

AND THE CONSEQUENCES OF THAT WOULD BE SEVERE FOR U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY, FOR OUR NATO ALLY, FOR OTHERS AROUND THE WORLD.

>> THIS, OF COURSE, WILL CERTAINLY BE TOP OF THE AGENDA THIS WEEKEND AT THE MUNICH SECURITY CONFERENCE.

AND MY FIRST GUESTS TONIGHT KNOW THIS BETTER THAN MOST.

FORMER U.S.

AMBASSADOR TO NATO KURT VOLKER, AND GENERAL PHILIP BREEDLOVE, NATO'S FORMER ALLIED SUPREME COMMANDER DURING RUSSIA'S 2014 ANNEXATION OF CRIMEA.

AMBASSADOR KURT VOLKER, PHILIP BREEDLOVE, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

YOU'RE IN MUNICH, I WANT TO SAY THE BELLY OF THE BEAST.

I'M THINKING THERE IS GOING TO BE QUITE A LOT OF SPOOKED ALLIES THERE, GIVEN WHAT TRUMP IS SAYING ABOUT INVITING PUTIN TO DO WHAT HE WANTS WITH A NATO COUNTRY, BUT ALSO BECAUSE OF STALLED MILITARY AID FOR UKRAINE.

WHAT IS THE -- WHAT IS THE FEELING YOU'RE PICKING UP RIGHT NOW?

>> WELL, EUROPEAN ALLIES ARE CLEARLY VERY WORRIED ABOUT THE UNITED STATES, AND IT IS, AS YOU SAID, IT'S PARTLY THE KIND OF LANGUAGE THAT TRUMP WAS USING THE OTHER DAY WHERE HE WAS SAYING THAT HE WOULD ENCOURAGE PUTIN TO ATTACK A NATO ALLY, AND THAT SHE WAS BRAGGING AT A POLITICAL RALLY, IT WAS NATURAL THE PAST TENSE, IT'S NOT A PRESCRIPTION FOR THE FUTURE.

BUT EVEN SO, NATO IS FORMED TO PREVENT WAR TO DEFEND ALLIES.

AND TO SUGGEST THAT ANYONE SHOULD LAUNCH OR ATTACK AN ALLY, ALLIES ARE UPSET ABOUT THAT.

THE SECOND IS WHETHER THE U.S. IS SOMEONE THEY CAN REAL RELY ON IN THE FUTURE.

WILL THE U.S.

PROVIDE THE REQUIRED SECURITY ASSISTANCE FOR UKRAINE?

WILL THERE BE MORE THREATS AGAINST NATO IN THE FUTURE?

WHAT IS THE U.S.

COMMITMENT TO NATO GOING FORWARD?

WE HAVE A LARGE DELEGATION OF SENATORS AND CONGRESSMAN COMING TO MUNICH.

AND I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO BE FACED WITH A LOT OF QUESTIONS OF WHAT ALLIES CAN EXPECT FROM THE UNITED STATES GOING FORWARD.

>> GENERAL BREEDLOVE, LET ME PUT THAT TO YOU IN A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT WAY.

DO YOU THINK NATO IS KIND OF BRACING, PREPARING FOR A U.S.-FREE NATO, IN OTHER WORDS, THE U.S. NOT BEING THERE OR IN A DIMINISHED CAPACITY, NOT WANTING TO DO THE HEAVY LIFT AND THE LEADERSHIP ROLE THAT IT HAS HISTORICALLY TAKEN?

>> CHRISTIANE, FIRST OF ALL, THANKS FOR HAVING ME ON.

I THINK THAT WHAT WE ARE SEEING IS SEVERAL THINGS ACTING.

MR. PUTIN IS STIRRING A LOT OF CONCERNS HIMSELF BY HIS ACTIONS IN GEORGIA IN '08, HIS ACTIONS IN UKRAINE IN '14, AND NOW HIS ACTIONS IN UKRAINE AGAIN.

I THINK THAT NATIONS ARE STARTING TO ACT IN THEIR OWN BEHALF TO BETTER PREPARE THEMSELVES.

YOU KNOW, IN NATO, LOTS OF PEOPLE FORGET ARTICLE 3, WHICH TO ME PARAPHRASES SAYS THE DEFENSE BEGINS AT HOME.

SO NOW WE'RE SEEING FOLKS TAKE THAT MORE SERIOUSLY.

CERTAINLY, AS AMBASSADOR VOLKER HAS POINTED OUT THE RHETORIC FROM THE POLITICAL CAMPAIGN THAT IS GOING ON RIGHT NOW, AND ONE OF THE CANDIDATES HAS ALSO CAUSED SOME CONCERN.

BUT I THINK THERE IS A CUMULATIVE EFFECT OF LOOKING AT WHAT MR. PUTIN HAS DEMONSTRATED HE IS WILLING TO DO IN EUROPEAN SPACES AND CONCERNING WORDS COMING OUT OF AMERICA'S POLITICAL CAMPAIGN.

>> SO I JUST WANT TO -- BEFORE I GO TO AMBASSADOR VOLKER AGAIN, GENERAL BREEDLOVE, AS A COMMANDING GENERAL, AS SOMEBODY WHO HAS BEEN IN CHARGE OF GROUND FORCES, AND YOU KNOW WHAT MILITARY IS NOT JUST ABOUT OFFENSIVE OR DEFENSIVE, IT'S ABOUT DETERRENCE.

SO NO MATTER HOW, WHEN, OR WHAT ATMOSPHERE TRUMP SAID, IN FACT I WOULD ENCOURAGE HIM TO DO WHATEVER THE HELL HE LIKES, WHAT DOES THAT DO TO AN EXPANSIONIST PUTIN'S THINKING?

>> WE HAVE FOR SOME TIME NOW LOST, LOST DETERRENCE OUTSIDE OF NATO SPACES.

I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT MR. PUTIN IS DETERRED AT ALL.

THAT'S A RESULT OF MULTIPLE YEARS OF THE WAY THAT U.S.

ADMINISTRATIONS HAVE APPROACHED THIS, AS WELL AS NATO NATIONS.

AND SO I DO NOT BELIEVE WE HAVE DETERRENCE OUTSIDE OF NATO SPACES.

I THINK WHAT WE'RE REALLY TALKING ABOUT NOW IS THE BEGINNING OF EROSION OF DETERRENCE INSIDE OF NATO SPACES.

I WOULD HAVE TOLD YOU, AND I STILL BELIEVE THAT WE DO HAVE THAT DETERRENCE, THAT MR. PUTIN DOES UNDERSTAND THE BORDER.

BUT IF WE BEGIN TO SEE SUPPORT ERODE AT THE SENIOR POLITICAL LEVELS, THAT'S GOING TO BE A REAL CONCERN.

>> AMBASSADOR VOLKER, YOU SAID THAT -- AND YOU'RE RIGHT, VERY SENIOR AMERICAN LEADERS WILL BE AT MUNICH.

I KNOW OF AT LEAST ONE SENIOR REPUBLICAN SENATOR WHO IS DUE TO BE ON A PANEL HAS PULLED OUT, HAS CANCELED, IS NOT GOING.

AND I JUST WONDER WHAT YOU THINK THE SENATORS AND THEIR GROUPS STILL GOING, THE SECRETARY OF STATE, WHOEVER ELSE IS GOING, WHETHER THEY CAN SAY ENOUGH TO ALLAY NATO FEARS.

FOR INSTANCE, POLITICALLY, CAN THE U.S. JUST PULL ITSELF OUT OF NATO?

I THINK THERE IS SOME SENATE RULE THAT SAYS IT CAN'T.

>> WELL, IT IS GOING TO BE A DIALOGUE.

THERE IS GOING TO BE A LOT OF QUESTIONS, AND A LOT OF QUESTIONS THAT SENATORS AND THE VICE PRESIDENT, SECRETARY OF STATE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO ANSWER.

I THINK AT A FUNDAMENTAL LEVEL, THEY CAN SAY WITH CONVICTION AND CLARITY THAT A MAJORITY OF AMERICANS, A MAJORITY OF AMERICAN CONGRESSMEN AND SENATORS, REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRAT, STRONGLY SUPPORT NATO, STRONGLY SUPPORT UKRAINE, AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE COMMITTED TO THIS ALLIANCE.

THE DIFFICULTY HAS BEEN ON FAILURE TO AGREE DOMESTICALLY OVER WHAT TO DO ABOUT THE U.S. SOUTHERN BORDER.

AND THAT HAS NOW EMPOWERED SMALL GROUP WITHIN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TO HOLD THIS PACKAGE UP THAT WOULD OTHERWISE BE GIVING AID TO UKRAINE.

THEY'VE GOT TO EXPLAIN HOW THIS IS GOING TO ACTUALLY GET DONE.

AND THAT'S WHERE I THINK THERE IS STILL WORK TO DO IN WASHINGTON.

AND THEREFORE STILL DIFFICULTY FOR THEM TO MAKE THAT AMERICAN COMMITMENT CLEAR.

>> AND WHEN YOU SEE THAT, AS WE SAID, UKRAINE IS ABOUT TO MARK A VERY DARK ANNIVERSARY TWO YEARS SINCE THIS FULL-SCALE RUSSIAN INVASION, NOBODY QUITE KNOWS WHICH WAY, YOU KNOW, IT'S GOING TO GO.

THE BATTLEFIELD IS TEETERING ON THE BRINK.

IT COULD GO ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, DEPENDING ON THE AMOUNT OF WEAPONS THAT ARE SENT AND HELP THAT IS SENT AT THE RIGHT TIME.

BUT I DO WANT TO ASK YOU, BECAUSE AS A POLITICAL AMBASSADOR, NOT NECESSARILY A MILITARY OFFICIAL, AND YOU DID SERVE UNDER PRESIDENT TRUMP FOR SPECIAL UKRAINE WORK THERE, WHEN YOU SAY, YOU KNOW, IT WAS HELD UP BECAUSE OF THE IMMIGRATION THING, YOU KNOW THAT THAT WAS WHAT THE REPUBLICANS DEMAND.

THAT'S WHAT THE DEMOCRATS DID.

AND THEN THE TRUMP MAGA GROUP SABOTAGED IT.

WHAT DO YOU -- WHAT DO PEOPLE SAY TO YOU POLITICALLY AND DIPLOMATICALLY?

HOW ARE THEY MEANT TO THINK ABOUT HOW THE U.S.

OPERATES IN TERMS OF LEGISLATING, ESPECIALLY IN SUCH INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT AND SITUATIONS AT SUCH GREAT STAKE?

>> WELL, EXACTLY.

SO FIRST OFF, ON THAT, THIS WAS ON A TRACK.

THERE WAS A PLAN.

SENATOR McCONNELL, SPEAKER JOHNSON, OTHERS SEEMED TO HAVE WORKED OUT ABOUT LINKING SOUTHERN BORDER ISSUES WITH UKRAINE AID, GETTING IT ALL DONE.

IT WAS ACTUALLY FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP WHO SAID DON'T VOTE FOR THE BORDER ISSUES, WHICH CAUSED THE SENATE TO THEN SEPARATE THEM OUT AND THE UKRAINE AID GOT PASSED IN THE SENATE.

NOW IT'S BACK TO THE HOUSE, AND NOW THEY MAY GET REJOINED AGAIN IN SOME WAY.

WE HAVE TO SEE HOW THEY SORT THIS OUT.

BUT THIS IS WHAT CAUSES OUR EUROPEAN ALLIES TO ASK WHAT ARE YOU GUYS DOING?

AND CAN WE RELY ON THE UNITED STATES GOING FORWARD?

THIS IS GENERAL -- THESE ARE HARD ISSUES.

THESE ARE SERIOUS ISSUES.

PEOPLE'S LIVES ARE AT STAKE, AND THIS IS GETTING HUNG UP OVER DOMESTIC POLITICS IN THE UNITED STATES.

ARE YOU GOING TO KEEP DOING THIS?

IF I CAN COME BACK TO YOUR EARLIER POINT IN YOUR QUESTION, THOUGH, ABOUT THE FUTURE OF UKRAINE, I THINK THE TWO-YEAR ANNIVERSARY IS AN IMPORTANT POINT TO TAKE STOCK, WHERE WE CAN LOOK AT UKRAINE TODAY AND SAY THEY'RE GOING TO SURVIVE AS A SOVEREIGN, INDEPENDENT EUROPEAN DEMOCRACY.

THEY HAVE TREMENDOUS SUPPORT FROM EUROPEAN ALLIES, FROM THE UNITED STATES, FROM CANADA, FROM NATO, THE EU ITSELF.

THIS IS GOING TO GROW OVER TIME.

EVERYONE IS EXPANDING THEIR DEFENSE INDUSTRIAL BASE.

I'M CONFIDENT THE U.S. ASSISTANCE WILL BE PASSED AT SOME POINT, AND UKRAINE IS GOING TO BE ON ITS WAY INTO THE EU AND NATO.

SO WE SEE A PICTURE HERE WHERE UKRAINE SURVIVES AND RUSSIA IS WEAKENED.

THAT'S GOING TO BE THE END OF THE STORY AT SOME POINT.

WHAT WE SHOULD BE FOCUSED ON IS HOW WE ACCELERATE GETTING TO THAT END POINT.

HOW DO WE PROVIDE UKRAINIANS WHAT THEY NEED TO WIN THE WAR.

HOW DO WE PRO THEM ECONOMIC SUPPORT, HOW DO WE GET TO THAT STABLE END POINT IN THE END.

>> GENERAL BREEDLOVE, DO YOU SEE THAT NOW ON THE BATTLEFIELD?

WHAT DO YOU ASSESS AS A MILITARY OFFICER THE BATTLEFIELD OVER THE NEXT YEAR?

>> WELL, FIRST, CHRISTIANE, LET ME JUST ADD TO WHAT AMBASSADOR VOLKER JUST SAID.

AND THIS IS MY OPINION AND THE WAY I STATE IT.

UKRAINE IS GOING TO END EXACTLY HOW WESTERN POLICYMAKERS WANT IT TO END.

WE WILL DETERMINE HOW THIS GOES BECAUSE IF WE GIVE UKRAINE WHAT THEY NEED, THEY WILL BE ABLE TO TAKE CARE OF THE RUSSIANS.

THEY'VE DONE IT STRATEGICALLY THREE TIMES ALREADY IN THIS WAR, NORTH OF KYIV, NORTH AND NORTHWEST OF KHARKIV, AND OPERATIONALLY TO SOME DEGREE IN THE SOUTH.

SO WE JUST HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT WESTERN POLICYMAKERS WILL ABSOLUTELY DETERMINE HOW THIS ENDS.

AND WHAT WE'RE SEEING NOW IS THE FAULT, THE PUBLIC FALTERING OF SUPPORT IS AFFECTING THE SOLDIER ON THE BATTLEFIELD.

WHEN YOU'RE IN THAT FRONT LINE BORDER TRACE, AND YOU'RE IN A DITCH OR WHEREVER, AND YOU ARE WONDERING WHETHER THE WEST STILL HAS YOUR BACK, IT'S GOING TO AFFECT THE WAY THAT YOU DECIDE, THE ACTIONS THAT YOU TAKE, AND YOU HAVE TO BEGIN TO PREPARE FOR NOT GETTING THAT SUPPORT.

EVEN IF WE ALL BELIEVE IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN EVENTUALLY, THEY HAVE TO ASSUME THEY MAY NOT.

AND THEY'LL START CHANGING PLANS BASED ON THE ASSUMPTION THAT THE WEST WILL NOT CONTINUE SUPPORT.

>> VERY FINALLY TOO, KURT VOLKER, WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE BEST CASE OUTCOME OF THE GATHERING OF MINDS IN MUNICH THIS WEEKEND?

>> WELL, I THINK THE BEST CASE OUTCOME IS THERE IS A LITTLE BIT MORE REASSURANCE AND UNDERSTANDING THAT AS A TRANSATLANTIC COMMUNITY, U.S., EUROPE THROUGH NATO, THROUGH OUR PARTNERSHIP AS BILATERAL ALLIES, THAT WE ARE GOING TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO REESTABLISH A BASIS FOR PEACE, SECURITY, DEMOCRACY IN EUROPE.

BUT WHAT GENERAL BREEDLOVE JUST SAID IS THE IMPORTANT FACTOR HERE.

PUTIN DOES NOT SEE UKRAINE AS HIS ENEMY ONLY.

HE SEES THE WEST AS HIS ENEMY.

AND THE FACT THAT THEY'RE PUTTING NUCLEAR-POWERED SHIP IN SPACE, OR THEY'RE TRYING TO BEEF UP TO A 1.5 MILLION MAN ARMY, THAT'S NOT ABOUT UKRAINE, THAT'S ABOUT US.

SO WE HAVE TO TAKE THIS SERIOUSLY.

WE HAVE TO PREPARE.

BUT WE HAVE ULTIMATELY THE ECONOMIC AND THE MILITARY STRENGTH TO REESTABLISH SECURITY IN EUROPE.

>> AMBASSADOR VOLKER, GENERAL BREEDLOVE, THANK YOU BOTH VERY MUCH FOR JOINING ME.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> AND ALSO TO BE DISCUSSED AT MUNICH, THE WORSENING HUMANITARIAN CRISIS IN GAZA AS A CHORUS OF WORLD LEADERS NOW, INCLUDING ISRAEL'S ALLIES WARN AGAINST A, QUOTE, CATASTROPHIC GROUND OFFENSE IN RAFAH.

MEANTIME, LESS THAN SIX MILES AWAY IN KHAN YUNIS, THE IDF HAS ENTERED NASSER HOSPITAL, ONE OF THE LAST REMAINING.

IT IS THE LARGEST ONE IN SOUTHERN GAZA WHERE MORE THAN 1500 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SHELTERING.

AND CORRESPONDENT NADA BASHIR HAS MORE ON THIS STORY NOW.

>> Reporter: PLUNGED INTO DARKNESS, ENGULFED IN SMOKE, THIS IS SOUTHERN GAZA'S NASSER HOSPITAL, ONE OF THE FEW STILL ABLE TO TREAT PATIENTS IN GAZA, HIT IN A DIRECT STRIKE OVERNIGHT ON WEDNESDAY.

"IS THERE ANYBODY STILL INSIDE?"

THIS DOCTOR ASKS.

THE SOUND OF GUNFIRE IN CLOSE PROXIMITY.

"GET DOWN," HE SHOUTS.

OTHERS AROUND HIM SHOUT "GET OUT!"

ANOTHER HOSPITAL NOW THE TARGET.

MORE CASUALTIES ARE RUSHED TO WHATEVER SAFE SPACE THERE IS LEFT, BUT THERE IS NOWHERE TO ESCAPE.

THIS MESSAGE FROM THE SURGEON INSIDE THE HOSPITAL PAINTS A TERRIFYING PICTURE OF THE SITUATION ON THE GROUND.

>> THE ISRAELI ARMY FORCED ALL THE PATIENTS AND ALL THE REFUGEES INSIDE NASSER HOSPITAL, AND NOW THEY ARE FORCING MEDICAL STAFF IN NASSER MEDICAL HOSPITAL TO EVACUATE IMMEDIATELY FROM THE HOSPITAL.

ISRAELI SOLDIERS AND TANKS ARE SURROUNDING THE HOSPITAL FROM ALL SIDES, SHOOTINGS AND BOMBINGS STILL CONTINUE.

>> Reporter: OUTSIDE, ISRAELI TANKS EDGE CLOSER WITHIN THE HOSPITAL'S GROUNDS.

THE ISRAELI MILITARY IS HEARD ORDERING CIVILIANS TO EVACUATE.

THE IDF SAYS IT ENTERED THE HOSPITAL AFTER RECEIVING CREDIBLE INTELLIGENCE INDICATING THAT HAMAS HELD HOSTAGES ON THE COMPLEX WITH DECEASED HOSTAGES POSSIBLY STILL PRESENT.

THOUGH CNN IS NOT ABLE TO INDEPENDENTLY VERIFY THIS CLAIM.

ISRAEL'S FORCES ALSO SAY THEY HAVE APPREHENDED A NUMBER OF SUSPECTS AT THE HOSPITAL AND HAVE OPENED A SECURE ROUTE FOR CIVILIANS TO EVACUATE THE AREA.

BUT DOCTORS AND MEDICAL OFFICIALS TELL CNN ISRAELI SNIPERS SHOT DEAD A NUMBER OF PEOPLE AS THEY TRY TO LEAVE THE MEDICAL COMPLEX.

AMONG THEM, THEY SAY THIS TEENAGER.

HIS LIFELESS BODY SEEN HERE JUST IN FRONT OF THE GATES OF THE NASSER HOSPITAL.

A SHORT DISTANCE AWAY, A PALESTINIAN DETAINEE APPEARS, SAID TO HAVE BEEN RELEASED BY THE ISRAELI MILITARY AND USED AS A MESSENGER, ACCORDING TO MEDICAL STAFF, WHO SPOKE TO A JOURNALIST ON THE GROUND, TO TELL CIVILIANS HERE THAT THEY MUST LEAVE IMMEDIATELY.

BUT SOON AFTER, DOCTORS SAY HE TOO WAS KILLED UNDER ISRAELI FIRE OUTSIDE THE HOSPITAL.

IT IS UNCLEAR FROM THE VIDEO WHAT HAPPENED AS ISRAELI DRONES SCOUR THE GROUND BENEATH, CIVILIANS NEARBY GATHER WHATEVER BELONGINGS THEY HAVE LEFT AND BEGIN TO FLEE.

FOR MANY, THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME THEY'VE BEEN FORCED TO EVACUATE.

THE VAST MAJORITY OF GAZA'S 2.3 MILLION STRONG POPULATION IS NOW CONCENTRATED IN SOUTHERN GAZA, ORDERED BY THE ISRAELI MILITARY TO MOVE SOUTH.

BUT AS TROOPS PUSH DEEPER INTO THE BESIEGED REGION, WITH THE LOOMING THREAT OF A GROUND OPERATION IN NEARBY RAFAH, WARNINGS FROM THE U.N. OF A POTENTIAL SLAUGHTER OF THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE GREW MOTHER TANGIBLE WITH EACH PASSING DAY.

>> NADA BASHIR REPORTING THERE.

THE TRAUMA OF WHAT IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW IN GAZA IS DEEPLY PERSONAL FOR THE PALESTINIAN AMERICAN CARDIOLOGIST TARIQ HADAD.

HE SAYS HE LOST MORE THAN 100 MEMBERS OF HIS EXTENDED FAMILY.

AND FOR THIS REASON, HE TURNED DOWN AN INVITATION FROM SECRETARY OF STATE ANTONY BLINKEN TO DISCUSS THE ADMINISTRATION'S RESPONSE.

AS HE TELLS MICHEL MARTIN, AND IT IS A HARD CONVERSATION TO HEAR.

>> THANKS, CHRISTIANE.

DR. HADAD, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SPEAKING WITH US.

>> HAPPY TO.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> IF YOU WILL, TELL ME ABOUT YOUR FAMILY IN GAZA.

IF YOU WOULD JUST START WITH BEFORE, BEFORE THE EVENTS OF OCTOBER 7th.

JUST TELL ME ABOUT YOUR FAMILY IN GAZA.

>> BOTH SIDES OF MY FAMILY HAVE BEEN THERE FOR GENERATIONS.

MY GRANDMOTHER WAS ACTUALLY THE HEAD MASTER OF THE UNITED NATIONS SCHOOLS BACK IN THE LATE '60s AND '70s.

AND, YOU KNOW, WAS AN EDUCATOR.

AND, YOU KNOW, IT WAS -- IT IS INCREDIBLY BEAUTIFUL MEMORIES, BUT ALSO A LOT OF PAINFUL MEMORIES OF BEING UNDER MILITARY OCCUPATION.

WHEN HER STUDENTS WOULD ASK HER WHERE THEIR PARENTS' HOMES FROM, WHAT IS IT LIKE, BECAUSE EVERYBODY IN GAZA IS ESSENTIALLY A REFUGEE FROM WHAT'S ISRAEL PROPER.

AND, YOU KNOW, SHE WOULD GET BEATEN BY SOLDIERS FOR TELLING THE CHILDREN WHERE THEIR PARENTS ARE FROM.

IT WAS -- THE MEMORIES I HAVE ARE SIMILAR.

THE MEMORIES THAT ANY PALESTINIAN HAS LIVED UNDER OCCUPATION WOULD HAVE, LIMITED WATER.

I LEARNED VERY QUICKLY THAT YOU DON'T TAKE A LONG SHOWER WHEN YOU LIVE IN GAZA BECAUSE YOUR GRANDMOTHER IS NOT GOING TO BE HAPPY WITH YOU, BECAUSE SHE WON'T HAVE ENOUGH WATER TO DO THE LAUNDRY OR TO DO THE COOKING.

THAT WAS JUST, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS LIFE UNDER OCCUPATION.

OR YOU HAVE UNLIMITED -- UNEQUAL ACCESS TO WATER.

ELECTRICITY WAS LIMITED.

JUST LOTS OF VIOLENCE THAT WE HAVE TO BE INCURRING AS A 13-YEAR-OLD IN 1987.

I WAS PLAYING CHESS IN THE STREET, AND ISRAELI SOLDIERS CAME TO THE STREET.

THEY GRABBED MY COUSIN.

THEY BROKE HIS ARM AND LEG.

THEY STARTED SHOOTING RUBBER BULLETS AT US.

I MANAGED TO ESCAPE AND HID IN A CHICKEN COOP ALL DAY IN MY NEIGHBOR'S HOUSE.

THAT'S LIFE UNDER MILITARY OCCUPATION, UNFORTUNATELY.

>> DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT WENT THROUGH YOUR MIND ON OCTOBER 7th WHEN YOU SAW WHAT WAS HAPPENING?

DO YOU REMEMBER HOW YOU PROCESSED WHAT WAS HAPPENING?

>> I THINK I, AS A PHYSICIAN, AS A HUMAN BEING, I PROCESSED IT FROM A POSITION OF APATHY.

BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE I CAM FROM.

THAT'S HOW I GREW UP.

AND I FELT VERY SAD, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THE INNOCENT -- THE DEATH OF ANY INNOCENT CIVILIAN, REGARDLESS OF THEIR BACKGROUND IS SAD.

AND I PUT MYSELF IN THE SHOES OF SOMEBODY WHO IS SUFFERING, WHO'S HAD SOMEBODY, YOU KNOW, KILLED OR, YOU KNOW, IN ANY WAY TORTURED.

AND IT WAS TERRIBLE THING.

I ALSO KNEW WHAT WOULD PROBABLY BE COMING, BECAUSE PALESTINIANS HAVE HAD TO DEAL WITH VIOLENCE FOR DECADES, AS I KIND OF GAVE YOU A BIT OF AND I KNEW THAT VIOLENCE WOULD GET ACCELERATED.

>> YOU KNEW THAT SOON THERE WOULD BE AN AGGRESSIVE MILITARY RESPONSE.

I JUST AM WONDERING IF YOU THOUGHT IT WOULD BE WHAT IT HAS BECOME.

>> I DID HAVE SOME IDEA, BECAUSE MY OWN FAMILY, OTHER THAN THE STORIES I TOLD YOU, WHEN MY YOUNGEST SON WAS BORN IN 2014, YOU KNOW, WE LOST 14 MEMBERS OF OUR FAMILY FROM SEVERAL ISRAELI MISSILE STRIKES, MOST OF THEM CHILDREN UNDER THE AGE OF 15.

SO I KNEW WHAT WAS PROBABLY COMING.

I DID NOT HAVE ANY IDEA IT WOULD BE TO THIS EXTENT.

>> AS WE ARE SPEAKING NOW, MAY I ASK HOW YOUR OWN FAMILY, YOUR OWN EXTENDED FAMILY IN GAZA HAS BEEN AFFECTED BY THESE EVENTS.

>> MICHEL, IT'S BEEN PROBABLY THE WORST FOUR MONTHS OF OUR LIFE AS A FAMILY.

YOU KNOW, WE'VE LOST OVER 100 FAMILY MEMBERS.

THEY'VE ALL BEEN KILLED IN ONE WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM BY THE ISRAELI MILITARY STRIKES.

THE SUFFERING IS EVEN WORSE THAN THE DEATH.

BACK ON OCTOBER 25th IN KHAN YUNIS, ONE OF MY -- SEVERAL OF MY COUSINS, JEMAD, DR. TOFI'S PREGNANT WIFE DANA, WHO WAS ALSO KILLED, THEIR TWO BEAUTIFUL DAUGHTERS WERE KILLED, HIS BROTHER ASSAM AND HIS WIFE SEMAD WERE ALSO KILLED.

THREE OF THEIR DAUGHTERS WERE ALL KILLED.

TOKA, ONE OF THE DAUGHTERS IN HER EARLY 20s, IT WAS HER WEDDING DAY THE DAY SHE GOT KILLED.

THIS IS ALL ONE LARGE FAMILY ALL KILLED AND ONE MILITARY STRIKE.

ANOTHER DAY A COUPLE OF DAYS LATER, MY COUSINS HADAD AND AZIZA ALSO GOT KILLED.

HATEM WAS A PHARMACIST.

HE WAS COMMUNITY FIGURE WHO HELPED EVERYBODY WORK.

16 MEMBERS OF THE FAMILY, INCLUDING 7 OF THEIR CHILDREN ALL WERE KILLED.

THERE IS ONLY ONE CHILD, HANZA OUT OF THIS ENTIRE MULTIGENERATIONAL FAMILY THAT SURVIVED INITIALLY.

HE SURVIVED WITH AN AMPUTATION.

HE WOKE UP IN THE HOSPITAL TO FIND OUT HIS FATHER, HIS UNCLE, ALL HIS SIBLINGS HAD ALL DIED.

AND THEN HE HIMSELF DIED THE NEXT DAY BECAUSE OF THE TRAUMA INJURIES BECAUSE OF THE HUMANITARIAN CRISIS AFFECTED THE HOSPITALS, THE BOMBINGS OF THE HOSPITALS.

AND THEY COULDN'T SAVE HIM.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE DAYS AFTER THAT, NOVEMBER 2nd, THAT SIDE OF MY FAMILY, HANI, MY COUSIN, SURVIVED WITH A MINOR LEG INJURY.

ANY PHYSICIAN WOULD RECOGNIZE IT HAS SOMETHING EASILY TREATABLE.

AND YET THE NEXT DAY HE BLED TO DEATH BECAUSE HE DIDN'T HAVE ACCESS TO ANY MEDICAL FACILITY BECAUSE EVERYTHING IN THAT PART OF GAZA FROM A HOSPITAL STANDPOINT HAD BEEN DESTROYED.

HANI'S BROTHER, MY OTHER COUSIN, HE SURVIVED, BUT HE HAD TO WITNESS HIS OWN MOTHER WITH HALF HER BODY BURIED UNDER THE RUBBLE AND HIS SISTER SHREDDED INTO MULTIPLE PIECES.

MY OTHER SURVIVING COUSIN HAD TO BURY ALL OF THEM IN THE BACKYARD BECAUSE THERE IS NO ACCESS TO A CEMETERY.

>> SO IT'S 100 -- AT THIS POINT, AS WE ARE SPEAKING NOW, YOU UNDERSTAND THAT 100 OF YOUR OWN FAMILY MEMBERS HAVE DIED OR BEEN KILLED, OR HAVE BEEN KILLED DIRECTLY IN STRIKES OR HAVE DIED AS A CONSEQUENCE OF INABILITY TO GET ADEQUATE MEDICAL CARE OR ADEQUATE SHELTER, ET CETERA.

IS THAT WHAT WE'RE UNDERSTANDING?

>> YES.

IT'S THE STORIES -- JUST TO GIVE YOUR LISTENERS AN IDEA OF WHAT WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH, EVERY SINGLE DAY I HAVE TO CHECK WHO IS ALIVE AND WHO IS DEAD AND WHO IS SUFFERING.

JUST A FEW WEEKS AGO A BABY IN OUR FAMILY WHO IS 20 DAYS OLD, HE DIED FROM HYPOTHERMIA.

AND THIS IS AFTER NINE OF HIS SIBLINGS AND HIS FATHER HAD BEEN KILLED BY THE ISRAELI MISSILE STRIKES A FEW WEEKS BEFORE.

I MEAN, THE STORIES GO ON AND ON IN TERMS OF LIKE YOU SAID ACCESS TO MEDICAL FACILITIES.

FOUR OF MY FAMILY MEMBERS WERE KILLED WHILE THEY WERE TRYING TO GO TO THE GAZA EUROPEAN HOSPITAL FOR SHELTER.

THEY WERE IN THEIR CAR ABOUT TO PARK IN THE GAZA EUROPEAN HOSPITAL, AND THEN THEY WERE HIT WITH A MISSILE, A MILITARY STRIKE THAT KILLED ALL OF THEM.

>> ONE OF THE REASONS WE FOUND YOU, AND YOU GRACIOUSLY AGREED TO SPEAK WITH US IS A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO, THE U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE ANTONY BLINKEN INVITE YOU AND SOME OTHER MEMBERS OF THE PALESTINIAN MESH COMMUNITY TO MEET WITH HIM, TO MEET WITH YOU TO TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE OBVIOUS.

AND YOU DECLINED TO MEET WITH HIM.

YOU WROTE A PIECE ABOUT IT FOR A NEW SITE, MONDOWEISS, WHICH IS DEDICATED TO COVERING THESE ISSUES.

I WONDER WHEN THE INVITATION AROSE, WHAT WENT THROUGH YOUR MIND?

>> AS I'M SEEING EVERY SINGLE DAY MY FAMILY DIE, DAY AFTER DAY, AS I'M SEEING THE SUFFERING, AS I'M SEEING THE HUNGER, THE LACK OF MEDICAL CARE, THE DESTRUCTION OF ALL THE HOMES, THE CIVILIAN LOSS OF LIFE, AND I'M SEEING DIRECT ACTIONS THAT OUR GOVERNMENT IS DOING TO AID THIS GENOCIDE.

I MEAN, I'M SEEING -- AND THAT'S WHAT IS GOING THROUGH MY HEAD.

I'M SEEING THE HORRORS OF NOBODY IN OUR GOVERNMENT EVEN BEING ABLE TO ASK, SIMPLY ASK FOR A CEASEFIRE TO STOP THE KILLING OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS.

YOU KNOW, THAT WENT THROUGH MY HEAD.

NOT ONLY THAT, BUT WE ARE ACTUALLY RELEASING MILITARY SUPPLIES FROM OUR MILITARY RESERVES TO AID IN THIS GENOCIDE, IN THIS KILLING OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS.

AND ON TOP OF THAT, JUST A FEW DAYS BEFORE I GOT THIS INVITATION, FINDING OUT THAT HUMANITARIAN AID THROUGH THE U.N.

RELIEF AND WORK AGENCY WAS WITHDRAWN BY THE UNITED STATES.

AND I'M THINKING ABOUT ALL THIS STUFF.

AND THEN I'M ASKING MYSELF HOW IN THE LOVE OF GOD AM I SUPPOSED TO MEET WITH ONE OF THE PEOPLE I FEEL IS DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEATH OF MY FAMILY AND THE CHILDREN WHO HAVE BEEN KILLED IN GAZA, KNOWING THESE ACTIVE -- THESE ACTIONS THAT HE HAS UNDERTAKEN, ON TOP OF THE $14 BILLION THAT JUST GOT APPROVED TO CONTINUE THIS MILITARY ASSAULT, HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO MEET WITH HIM, KNOWING ALL OF HIS ACTIONS THAT HE HAS UNDERTAKEN AND THE GOVERNMENT HAS UNDERTAKEN ARE ACTIVELY KILLING AND CAUSING THE SUFFERING IN MY FAMILY?

>> TO TELL HIM YOURSELF?

>> I COULDN'T BRING MYSELF TO MEET WITH HIM, MICHEL, BECAUSE I WANT YOUR LISTENERS THE JUST PUT I'VE HAD 100 FAMILY MEMBERS DAY BY DAY GETTING KILLED, TELLING ME HOW MUCH THEY'RE SUFFERING.

HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO TELL THAT TO HIM IN PERSON, KNOWING ALL THE ACTIONS HE HAS UNDERTAKEN?

I JUST THOUGHT IT WAS SLAP IN THE FACE.

I THOUGHT WITH ALL THE ACTIONS, I THOUGHT IT WAS POLITICAL GRANDSTANDING, THAT THIS IS JUST A WAY TO SHOW THAT THE ADMINISTRATION IS LISTENING TO ALL SIDES.

MEANWHILE, WITH ONE SIDE OF THEIR FACE THEY'RE MEETING, AND ON THE OTHER SIDE THEY'RE ACTIVELY TAKING ON POLICIES THAT ARE KILLING OUR FAMILY.

I JUST THOUGHT IT WAS POLITICAL GRANDSTANDING.

I WASN'T GOING TO BE PART OF POLITICAL GRANDSTANDING.

>> FORGIVE ME.

THERE ARE OTHERS WHO MIGHT SEE IT THE OTHER WAY, THE DECISION NOT TO MEET WAS GRANDSTANDING BECAUSE YOU REPRESENT FOLKS DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO THE SECRETARY OF STATE AND THAT YOU CHOSE NOT TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT.

SO FOR THOSE WHO MIGHT FEEL THAT WAY, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY?

>> SO MY RESPONSE IS WHAT I WANTED TO DO IS MAKE SURE HE KNEW WHAT HIS ACTIONS WERE DOING TO OUR FAMILY.

SO THE WAY -- THE WAY I DID THAT WAS TO WRITE A LETTER TO HIM, A 12-PAGE LETTER WHERE I VERY IN A LOT OF DETAIL EXPLAINED EVERYTHING ABOUT MY FAMILY, WHAT MY FAMILY HAS GONE THROUGH, WHAT HIS ACTIONS SPECIFICALLY HAVE CAUSED, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF SUFFERING TO OUR FAMILY.

SO I DID OPEN THAT LINE OF COMMUNICATION.

AND I GAVE HIM THAT INFORMATION.

AND I HAD IT PRINTED AND GIVEN TO HIM AND READ TO HIM AT THIS MEETING.

SO LIKE I ACCOMPLISHED THE TASK OF EDUCATING HIM IN THE WAY I FELT HE NEEDED TO HEAR.

BUT WITHOUT THE GRANDSTANDING.

>> WOULD YOU MIND SHARING A LITTLE BIT OF IT WITH US HERE?

>> SURE.

THIS IS A PORTION OF MY LETTER THAT I TOLD HIM.

I SAID, "THE MORE I THOUGHT ABOUT THIS MEETING, THE MORE I COULD NOT EMOTIONALLY BRING MYSELF TO LOOK YOU IN THE EYES, SECRETARY BLINKEN, KNOWING YOU AND PRESIDENT BIDEN HAVE KNOWINGLY CONTRIBUTED TO THE SUFFERING AND MURDER OF SO MANY OF MY FAMILY.

THE HOMELESSNESS AND DISPOSSESSION OF TWO MILLION GAZANS AND THE FAMINE THAT HAS BEFALLEN MY REMAINING FAMILY MEMBERS.

I'D LIKE YOU TO PUT YOURSELF IN MY SHOES.

HOW WOULD ONE MEET?

I WAS TOLD THREE MINUTES FOR THE PERSON RESPONSIBLE FOR NOT JUST THE KILLING OF YOUR CHILD, BUT FOR THE MURDER OF OVER 80 OF YOUR FAMILY MEMBERS?

HOW DO I SAY IN THREE MINUTES FOR SOMEONE WHO WILL FOREVER IN HISTORY BE KNOWN FOR ACTIVELY AIDING AROUND ABETTING ONE OF THE WORSE GENOCIDES IN THE CENTURY MY FAMILY'S SUFFERING AND MY PEOPLE.

HOW DO I LOOK A PERSON THIS THE EYES FOR THREE MINUTES WHO NOT ONLY COULD HAVE PREVENTED THE DEATH OF MY 85 FAMILY MEMBERS AND NEARLY 15,000 CHILDREN IN GAZA BUT ACTUALLY CONTRIBUTE TO THEIR SUFFERING AND DEATH BY PROVIDING MILITARY AMMUNITION AND MUNITIONS TO DESTROY MY FAMILY AND THEIR HOMES.

I ASK YOURSELVES A HUMAN BEING, SECRETARY BLINKEN, WOULD YOU BE ABLE TO MEET AND SPEAK TO THE PERSON PRIMARILY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MOST SUFFERING AND DEATH YOUR FAMILY HAS GONE THROUGH FOR CENTURIES AND CONVEY THAT IN THREE MINUTES?

THAT'S JUST A PORTION OF MY LETTER.

SORRY IF I GOT EMOTIONAL.

IT'S JUST HARD.

>> I AM MINDFUL WHEN I SAY THAT MY OWN WORDS WILL NOT BE VERY MEANINGFUL, BUT I DO WANT TO SAY I'M SO SORRY FOR WHAT YOU HAVE EXPERIENCED AND WHAT YOUR FAMILY IS GOING THROUGH.

>> I THINK THE THING THAT GETS LOST TOO IS -- AND I THINK THIS IS WHAT MAKES IT REALLY HARD, MICHEL, IT'S VERY HARD EVERY DAY AS A PALESTINIAN SEEING THE INCREDIBLE DEHUMANIZATION THAT HAPPENS TO THESE PEOPLE.

>> YOU FEEL LIKE PEOPLE ARE VIEWED AS LIKE NUMBERS AND NOT PEOPLE?

>> YES.

>> SAY MORE WHAT ABOUT YOU MEAN.

>> I THINK PEOPLE SEE US AS STATISTICS.

AND THEY DON'T REALIZE.

YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE STORIES I JUST TOLD YOU, THESE ARE PHYSICIANS.

THESE ARE PHARMACISTS.

ONE OF MY FAMILY MEMBERS WHO GOT KILLED GOT KILLED ON THE DAY OF HER Ph.D, THAT SHE WAS ABOUT TO GET HER Ph.D. CHILDREN, WHO ARE WONDERFUL HUMAN BEINGS, AND NONE OF THEM -- I DIDN'T SAY THIS, BUT IT SHOULD GO WITHOUT SAYING, I KNOW ALL MY FAMILY MEMBERS.

NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM HAVE ANY POLITICAL AFFILIATION.

THEY HAVE NO CONNECTION WITH ANYTHING.

THEY DIDN'T DESERVE ANY OF THIS.

THEY ARE ALL CIVILIANS.

>> WHAT SPECIFICALLY DO YOU WANT THE U.S. TO DO AT THIS POINT?

>> I WOULD LOVE TO SEE A CEASEFIRE SO THAT THESE POOR CIVILIANS CAN JUST BE SAFE, JUST TEMPORARILY.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE HAVE LITERALLY BEEN TELLING THEM TO MOVE FROM NORTHERN GAZA TO SOUTHERN GAZA TO KHAN YUNIS, WHICH IS SOUTH OF THERE, TO RAFAH.

AND NOW THERE'S MORE THAN A MILLION PEOPLE WHO ARE LITERALLY HOMELESS AND SITTING IN TENTS.

AND NOW WE'RE TELLING THEM THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE BOMBED THERE.

I WOULD LOVE FOR OUR ADMINISTRATION TO CALL FOR A CEASEFIRE.

OBVIOUSLY THERE NEEDS TO BE HUMANITARIAN ASSISTANCE.

NEARLY EVERY HOME HAS BEEN THEY NEED TO REBUILD ALL THE INCREDIBLE LOSS OF LIFE AND INFRASTRUCTURE THERE.

NEARLY EVERY HOSPITAL IS DESTROYED AND NOT FUNCTIONAL.

YOU KNOW, MY FAMILY IS TELLING ME THAT 13 FAMILIES ARE IN ONE TINY SHELTER BUILDING IN RAFAH.

13 FAMILIES, JUST IN ONE LITTLE TENT OR AREA.

THERE IS NOT EVEN A SPACE FOR ANYBODY TO PITCH A TENT.

>> IT IS A FACT THAT AS WE ARE SPEAKING NOW, THERE ARE GOVERNMENTS AROUND THE WORLD, INCLUDING WESTERN GOVERNMENTS, TRADITIONAL ALLIES OF THE UNITED STATES AND TRADITIONAL ALLIES OF ISRAEL THAT HAVE ESCALATED THEIR CRITICISM.

SAID THE MILITARY CAMPAIGN AS IT'S CURRENTLY BEING WAGED IS -- HAS CROSSED THE BOUNDARIES OF ACCEPTABILITY.

IS THERE ANYTHING ABOUT THAT THAT GIVES YOU HOPE THAT RELIEF WILL BE COMING?

>> I HOPE SO.

I MEAN, THE PROBLEM IS THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S -- YOU KNOW, THESE ARE BAND-AIDS, RIGHT.

YOU HAVE TO STOP THESE MILITARY ATTACKS.

I MEAN, THIS IS COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT OF 2.5 MILLION PEOPLE.

WHEN IN HISTORY HAS THAT EVER BEEN OKAY, TO ATTACK A POPULATION OF 2.5 MILLION PEOPLE BECAUSE YOU HAVE A POLITICAL OBJECTIVE?

>> THIS MAY SEEM INCONSEQUENTIAL IN CONTRAST TO EVERYTHING THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, BUT THIS IS AN ELECTION YEAR, AND MANY PEOPLE WILL IT LOOKS VERY LIKELY THAT THE CHOICE WILL BE BETWEEN PRESIDENT BIDEN WITH WHOM YOU'RE VERY DEEPLY ANGRY, AND THE PRIOR PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP.

I UNDERSTAND IT MAY NOT BE FOREMOST IN YOUR MIND, BUT I'M JUST WONDERING WHAT DO YOU DO IN A SITUATION LIKE THAT WILL WHERE THOSE SEEM TO BE THE CHOICES?

>> IT'S A REALLY DIFFICULT SITUATION TO BE IN.

I THINK I SPEAK FOR MOST PALESTINIANS WHEN I SAY WE'RE -- PALESTINIAN AMERICANS AND ARAB AMERICANS IN GENERAL ARE FRANKLY SICK AND TIRED OF BEING TAKEN FOR GRANTED, FOR OUR VOICES BEING TAKEN FOR GRANTED.

AND I CANNOT IN GOOD CONSCIENCE AS A PHYSICIAN, AS SOMEBODY WHO CARES ABOUT HUMAN RIGHTS, THERE IS NO NOTHING THAT WOULD MAKE ME VOTE FOR AN ADMINISTRATION THAT PERSONALLY IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SUFFERING OF THIS MANY PEOPLE.

>> SO EVEN THOUGH THE FORMER PRESIDENT AND HIS NEGOTIATORS MADE STEPS THAT SEEMED OPENLY PROVOCATIVE AND DESTRUCTIVE OF THE POTENTIAL FOR A TWO-STATE SOLUTION, LIKE MOVING THE U.S. EMBASSY TO JERUSALEM, ET CETERA, ET CETERA, YOU STILL FEEL THAT THAT MIGHT YIELD BETTER RESULTS IN THE LONG RUN?

OR IS IT MORE ABOUT PUNISHING PRESIDENT BIDEN?

>> I THINK LONG-TERM IF PEOPLE LOOK BACK AND SAY THIS ELECTION WAS A TIME WHERE, YOU KNOW, OUR LEADERS FINALLY REALIZED THAT THEY CAN'T -- THEY CANNOT JUST CONTINUE TO WALK AND TRAMPLE ON HUMAN RIGHTS OF PALESTINIANS.

BECAUSE THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES, THEN SO BE IT.

>> EVEN IF THE CONSEQUENCES ARE ANOTHER TERM OF PRESIDENT TRUMP?

>> EVEN IF THE CONSEQUENCE IS A ANOTHER TERM OF PRESIDENT TRUMP.

>> WELL, DR. HADAD, I APPRECIATE YOU SPEAKING WITH US AT THIS DEEPLY PAINFUL MOMENT.

I WANT TO SAY I THANK YOU FOR SPEAKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU.

I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU HAVING ME ON AND HAVING ME SHARE THE STORIES OF MY FAMILY.

SO THANK YOU.

>> HEART-WRENCHING.

AND WE'VE REACHED OUT TO THE U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT AND TO THE IDF FOR COMMENT.

AND WE HOPE TO FOLLOW UP ON AIR WITH THEM AT A LATER DATE.

>>> NOW, INSIDE ISRAEL, PEOPLE ARE SEEING A VERY DIFFERENT PICTURE OF THE WAR AND THE REST OF THE WORLD, WITH IDF SOLDIERS DOCUMENTING IN REALTIME.

JEREMY DIAMOND REPORTS ON THIS TREND UNFOLDING ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

>> THIS IS A HOW-TO VIDEO ON HOW TO BLOW UP A MOSQUE IN GAZA.

THE FORMAT IS INTERNET FLUENT.

THE CONTENT IS VERY REAL, FILMED, EDITED AND POSTED ON INSTAGRAM BY AN ISRAELI SOLDIER.

IT'S ONE OF DOZENS REVIEWED BY CNN.

FOR MANY IN 2024, SOCIAL MEDIA IS EVERYDAY LIFE.

ISRAELI SOLDIERS IS NO DIFFERENT, EXCEPT THEY'RE FIGHTING ISRAEL'S LARGEST AND MOST BRUTAL WAR IN DECADES.

IN VIDEO AFTER VIDEO AFTER VIDEO, SOLDIERS DOCUMENT THE DESTRUCTION OF GAZA AND REJOICE.

THEY FILM DETONATIONS TO USE AS WEDDING INVITATIONS.

AMONG THEM ARE WOULD-BE COMEDIANS, WHOSE VIDEO SATIRIZING THE WAR SHOWED THE DEVASTATION IN GAZA.

>> THIS WAS THE UNIVERSITY.

THE IDF HELPED THEM.

IT BECAME THE OPEN UNIVERSITY.

>> SOLDIERS HAVE ALWAYS DOCUMENTED THEMSELVES.

IT COULD BE IN JOURNALS.

IT COULD BE WITH TAKING PICTURES.

>> Reporter: AVNER YAHU SERVED IN THE SECOND INTIFADA.

HE LEADS THE GROUP ENCOURAGING SOLDIERS TO SPEAK ABOUT THE REALITIES OF OCCUPATION.

>> EVEN IF WE DO FIND THE WHY WE WENT TO THIS WAR, IMPORTANT, SIGNIFICANT AND NECESSITY, WE HAVE TO ASK OURSELVES HOW WE'RE CONDUCTING OURSELVES IN WARTIME.

>> THE VIDEOS OFTEN END UP ON THE SOCIAL MEDIA CHANNELS OF RIGHT-WING POLITICAL COMMENTATORS.

THEY BOAST TO THE ISRAELI PUBLIC OF THE TACTICS USED TO DEFEND THEM.

THE IDF TOLD CNN THAT IT HAS ACTED AND CONTINUES TO ACT TO IDENTIFY UNUSUAL CASES THAT DEVIATE FROM WHAT IS EXPECTED OF IDF SOLDIERS.

THOSE CASES WILL BE ARBITRATED AND SIGNIFICANT COMMAND MEASURES WILL BE TAKEN AGAINST THE SOLDIERS INVOLVED.

IMAGES FROM GAZA OF ISRAEL'S WAR INJURED ARE RARE ON ISRAELI TELEVISION, BUT THEY'RE THERE ON TIKTOK.

>> THE OVERARCHING THEME IS WE'RE HERE.

WE'RE GOING WIN.

WE'RE POWERFUL ENOUGH.

AND I THINK WHAT THESE SOLDIERS ARE DOING WITH WHAT WE SEE ON SOCIAL MEDIA IS POWER FOR THEM TO REGAIN SENSE OF AGENCY, REGAIN SENSE OF POWER, REGAIN, YOU KNOW, THE SENSE OF POSITIVE IMAGE THE WAY WE TALK ABOUT OURSELVES BEFORE OCTOBER 7th.

>> AT TIMES, THEY OPENLY DEFY THEIR MILITARY'S MESSAGE ABOUT PROTECTING CIVILIANS, AND FILM THEMSELVES DESTROYING CIVILIAN SHOPS.

ISRAEL IS UNDER INCREASING SCRUTINY OVER THE WAR IN GAZA.

THESE VIDEOS MAY WELL BE ADDING FUEL TO THAT CRITICISM.

>> AND LET'S JUST REMEMBER, THIS IS ALL OPEN SOURCE MATERIAL.

.

>>> NEXT, TO KANSAS CITY AND THE AFTERMATH OF A MASS SHOOTING DURING THE CHIEFS' SUPER BOWL VICTORY CELEBRATION LAST NIGHT.

ONE PERSON WAS KILLED AND 30 INJURED.

IT'S THE THIRD MASS SHOOTING IN AMERICA THIS WEEK, AND AT LEAST THE 48th ALREADY THIS YEAR, ACCORDING TO THE GUN VIOLENCE ARCHIVE.

PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN SAID THE EVENTS SHOULD MOVE US, SHOCK US, SHAME US INTO ACTING.

HOW MANY MORE FAMILIES NEED TO BE TORN APART.

BUT LAWMAKERS ARE PARALYZED BY A BELIEF IN SECOND AMENDMENT PROTECTION FOR AN INDIVIDUAL'S RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS.

IN A CRITICALLY ACCLAIMED NEW BOOK CALLED "ONE NATION UNDER GUNS" HISTORIAN DOMINIC ERDOZAIN ARGUES THE COUNTRY'S FOUNDERS NEVER UNDERSTOOD GUN RIGHTS TO OVERWHELM OTHER RIGHTS.

DOMINIC ERDOZAIN, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU.

>> YOUR BOOK HAS HAD AMAZING REVIEWS.

AND I FIND IT INTERESTING AS A BRIT SITTING IN BRITAIN THAT YOU'RE A BRIT IN AMERICA LOOKING AT THIS INCREDIBLE, YOU KNOW, CATASTROPHE REALLY THAT WE ALL LOOK AT.

AND YOU'RE SEEING IT FROM A VERY DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE THAN PERHAPS MOST AMERICANS.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK THAT ANYONE TRAVELING TO THE U.S. FROM ABROAD IS GOING TO BE KIND OF EXPERIENCE SOME CULTURE SHOCK.

AND I THINK I JUST WASN'T PREPARED FOR THIS KIND OF ROLLING NIGHTMARE OF GUN VIOLENCE, AND IN A SENSE, THE FATALISM AND RESIGNATION THAT SEEMED TO SURROUND IT AMONG LIBERALS AND CONSERVATIVES ALIKE AS SOMETHING KIND OF FIXED AND PERMANENT.

AND I THINK THAT THAT WAS WHERE MY SKEPTICISM AS AN OUTSIDER CAME FROM, REALLY TO UNDERSTAND WHETHER IS THIS JUST AMERICA OR IS THIS SOME SORT OF ABERRATION OR SOME KIND OF DISTORTION OF THE AMERICAN POLITICAL TRADITION.

THESE WHAT MY BOOK WAS ALL ABOUT.

>> HAVE YOUR CHILDREN EVER HAD TO GO THROUGH LOCKDOWN DRILLS AND HAS THERE EVER BEEN ANYTHING LIKE THAT IN YOUR OWN FAMILY?

>> YES, THERE HAVE BEEN SEVERAL.

MY DAUGHTER CALLED ME THE OTHER DAY SAYING DADDY, THERE IS MAN WITH A GUN, LIKE A HUMAN GUN.

AND I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT SHE MEANT.

SHE WAS ON THE TRAIN.

AND SHE SAID, WELL, I MEANT A GUN DESIGNED FOR HUMANS, NOT FOR ANIMALS OR A SHOTGUN OR A HUNTING RIFLE.

AND SO WE'VE ALL HAD A BIT OF THE CULTURE SHOCK.

WE'VE HAD INCIDENTS IN THE SCHOOL.

THERE HAVE BEEN TEENAGED LIKE HIGH SCHOOL PARTIES WHICH HAVE BEEN INTERRUPTED WITH GUNFIRE, BUT MOST DRAMATICALLY, WE HAD SOMEONE WE'D WORKED WITH AND KNOWN QUITE WELL WHO ULTIMATELY THREATENED ME VIA TEXT MESSAGE, BUT IN A SERIOUS ENOUGH WAY FOR US TO HAVE TO PURSUE IT THROUGH THE COURTS.

SO THAT WAS MY PERSONAL TASTE OF IT.

AND MY KIND OF LAUNCH INTO THE STUDY OF THE COLLATERAL EFFECTS OF GUN VIOLENCE IS NOT JUST THE PHYSICAL FALLOUT.

IT'S THE PSYCHOLOGICAL EFFECT AND WHAT THIS DOES TO THE WAY WE TRUST EACH OTHER OR INTERACT WITH EACH OTHER.

>> YOU WRITE ABOUT, IN FACT, YOU OPEN YOUR BOOK ABOUT THIS PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, A SERIES OF THREATENING TEXTS AS YOU SAY, FROM A WOMAN WHO ACTUALLY WORKED AS YOUR NANNY.

WHAT HAPPENED THAT WAS SO DIFFICULT AND SHOCKING THAT ACTUALLY MADE YOU LAUNCH A FULL-SCALE BOOK ABOUT THIS?

>> WELL, I MEAN, THAT WASN'T THE ONLY CATALYST FOR THE BOOK, BUT I THINK THE THING THAT REALLY TROUBLED ME AS AN OUTSIDER HERE WAS THE DISCOURSE OF THE LAW-ABIDING CITIZEN VERSUS THE CRIMINAL, THE GOOD GUY AGAINST THE BAD GUY.

AND I ALWAYS FELT THAT WAS AN ARBITRARY CATEGORY.

AND HERE WE HAD SOMEONE WE LIKED AND TRUSTED AND WHO WAS IN MANY WAYS A PERFECTLY RELIABLE PERSON WHO ULTIMATELY THREATENED US, THREATENED GUN VIOLENCE AGAINST US.

AND THE PROCESS OF TRYING TO DEAL WITH THAT THROUGH THE COURTS.

YOU GET TO THE FAMILY VIOLENCE COURT, AND YOU SEE THESE COUPLES WHO ARE REALLY JUST ESSENTIALLY FEUDING COUPLES.

THEY'RE PEOPLE WHO KNOW EACH OTHER.

THEY'RE INTIMATE PARTNERS.

THEY'RE THE PEOPLE WHO SHOOT EACH OTHER EVERY DAY IN MODERN AMERICA.

I THINK EVERY 10 OR 11 HOURS, A WOMAN IS SHOT BY AN INTIMATE OR FORMER INTIMATE PARTNER.

AND THAT EXPERIENCE JUST BLEW APART FOR ME THIS KIND OF GLIB DICHOTOMY OF GOOD PEOPLE AND BAD PEOPLE.

AND THAT WAS THE STARTING POINT OF MY RESEARCH.

>> NOW, IF THE FOUNDING FATHERS HAD KNOWN, WHAT DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD HAVE MADE?

AND THAT'S A QUESTION AS TO INTENT AND THE SECOND AMENDMENT.

>> I THINK THAT THEY'D FIRST OF ALL BE HORRIHORRIFIED.

ONE OF THE THINGS I'VE TRIED TO DO IS APPROACH THE SECOND AMENDMENT NOT JUST THROUGH THE LEGAL ANGLE, BUT TO UNDERSTAND HOW IT FITS INTO A VISION OF DEMOCRACY.

AND YOU GO BACK TO PEOPLE LIKE JOHN LOCKE AND THE ARCHITECTS OF THE LIBERAL TRADITION, AND THEY'LL SAY THAT THE STATE IS DESIGNED TO PROTECT PEOPLE FROM THE PARTIALITY AND VIOLENCE OF MEN, THAT CURTAILING INTERPERSONAL VIOLENCE IS THE VERY ORIGIN OF THE MODERN POLITICAL PROCESS.

SO ON THAT BASE CLICK LEVEL, THEY'D BE HORRIFIED.

BUT THE DISSPORGS AROUND THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS A LOT OF ISSUES, BUT A WELL REGULATED MILITIA INVOLVES THE PRINCIPLE OF CONSENT AND COLLABORATION AND ACCOUNTABILITY.

AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE NOW LACK.

INDIVIDUALS BUYING ASSAULT WEAPONS FOR THEIR OWN USE ARE NOT PART OF A WELL REGULATED MILITIA.

SO WE'VE DRIFTED VERY FAR FROM THOSE MOORINGS.

AND ALTHOUGH THE NUMBERS OF GUNOWNERS ARE DOWN, I THINK, THE NUMBERS OF GUNS IN CIRCULATION HAS INCREASED DRAMATICALLY IN THE LAST 10, 15 YEARS.

>> THE ENTIRETY OF THIS IS A WELL REGULATED MILITIA BEING NECESSARY TO THE SECURITY OF A FREE STATE, THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

WHAT DID THE FOUNDERS MEAN ABOUT BY THE WORDS "A WELL REGULATED MILITIA"?

AND THEN "THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE"?

>> WELL, IT'S IMPORTANT.

MANY OF THE STATE CONSTITUTIONS DISTINGUISH PERSONS AS INDIVIDUALS FROM THE PEOPLE.

THE PEOPLE IS A BODY.

IT'S A MASS.

IT'S A BODY FROM A MASS.

IT'S VERY LINKED TO SOVEREIGNTY, THAT SOVEREIGNTY IS IN THE BODY OF THE PEOPLE.

IT'S NOT IN THE INDIVIDUAL.

AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE DISCUSSIONS OVER THE SECOND AMENDMENT, YOU HAVE THESE EXEMPTIONS FOR INDIVIDUALS WHO MAY HAVE CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTIONS TO SERVING IN THE MILITARY.

AND THEY ARE PERSONS.

AND MADISON SAYS THIS, AS HE DRAFTS IT.

BUT THE PEOPLE IS A BODY OF PEOPLE.

AND A WELL REGULATED MILITIA IS ACTUALLY UNDER THE AUTHORITY OF THE STATE.

IF YOU LOOK AT THESE STATE CONSTITUTIONS FROM WHICH THE SECOND AMENDMENT EMERGED, THEY TALK VERY CLEARLY ABOUT THE MILITIA AND ANY ARMIES THAT ARE SUMMONED BY CONGRESS, OR SUMMONED BY THE STATE MUST BE UNDER THE AUTHORITY OF THE CIVIL POWER.

SO TO PUT THIS IN THE LANGUAGE OF POLITICAL SCIENCE, THE MILITIA IS UNDER THE STATE'S MONOPOLY OF VIOLENCE.

PEOPLE THINK OF IT AS AN INDIVIDUAL THING.

BUT WHEN YOU'RE IN A MILITIA, YOU CAN BE COURT-MARTIALED.

YOU'RE UNDER ORDERS.

AND THAT'S THE IDEA THAT IS CHIPPED AWAY AND REALLY DISSOLVES IN THE 19th CENTURY WHEN THE MILITIA KIND OF CEASES TO BE THE DEFENSE OF THE STATE AND PROFESSIONAL ARMIES SORT OF TAKE OVER.

>> IF THAT WAS THE 19th CENTURY, WHEN DOES IT TURN INTO MORE OF A PERSON'S RIGHT, WHICH IS HOW MOST AMERICANS WHO ARE, YOU KNOW, NRA OR THE REPUBLICANS WHO EACH INDIVIDUAL'S RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS.

>> YEAH.

>> YOU KNOW RONALD REAGAN PRESIDE OVER A KEY TURNING POINT IN WHAT BECOMES A GUN CULTURE IN AMERICA RATHER THAN JUST A POLITICAL WEDGE ISSUE.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

IF YOU LOOK AT SOMEONE LIKE RICHARD NIXON, OR TWO OF HIS ATTORNEYS GENERAL, JOHN MITCHELL, ELLIOT RICHARDSON, ALL THREE OF THEM FAVORED A TOTAL BEEN ON HANDGUNS.

AND THERE WAS A JUSTICE DEPARTMENT REPORT THAT ADVOCATED THAT IN 1973.

SO FOR MUCH OF THE 20th CENTURY, AMERICANS WERE HOSTILE TO HANDGUN OWNERSHIP.

YOU HAD SIX OUT OF TEN AMERICANS FAVORED A TOTAL BAN ON HANDGUNS IN 1959.

IT WAS A VERY LOCALIZED THING IN THE 19th CENTURY AND EMERGED MAINLY IN THE SLAVE STATES, AND THROUGH WRITERS LIKE THEODORE ROOSEVELT AND THE FRONTIER TRADITION AND THE KIND OF MILITARISM OF THE LATE 19th CENTURY, IT SORT OF DEVELOPS.

BUT IT DOESN'T BECOME A LEGAL DOCTRINE UNTIL THE VERY LATE 20th CENTURY, AND DOESN'T BECOME ANY KIND OF FEDERAL LAW UNTIL THE HELLER RULING OF 2008.

LEADING HISTORIAN OF THE 20th CENTURY, RICHARD HOFF STATTER LOOKED INTO IT, THE MOMENTUM BUILDS IN THE '80s AND '90s AND YOU START TO GET COURTS THAT REFER TO THIS IMPRESSIVE BODY OF RESEARCH THAT HAS CHANGED THE UNDERSTANDING OF THE SECOND AMENDMENT.

AND A LOT OF THIS MATERIAL IS CIRCULAR.

IT SORT OF QUOTES ONE ANOTHER.

IT QUOTES FELLOW GUN ADVOCATES A LOT.

BUT THE CULMINATION OF THIS TRANSITION IS THE HELLER RULING OF 2008 WHICH IS DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA VERSUS HELLER, WHICH IS WHEN THE SUPREME COURT, WITH A 5-4 MAJORITY OVERTURNED THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA'S BAN ON HANDGUNS AS OFFENSIVE TO THE SECOND AMENDMENT, AND IT DEFINED THE SECOND AMENDMENT JUST PRIMARILY EXISTING TO PROTECT AN INDIVIDUAL RIGHT OF SELF-DEFENSE.

>> AND NOW 21st CENTURY, IT SEEMS EVERY WEEK, IF NOT MORE, THERE ARE MASS SHOOTING EVENTS IN THE UNITED STATES IN SCHOOLS, IN MANY, MANY DIFFERENT PLACES, PLACES OF WORSHIP.

AND IT'S BECOME BAKED IN TO AMERICAN LIFE.

I MEAN, PEOPLE OVERSEAS AS YOU KNOW LOOK AT IT AND CANNOT BELIEVE IT.

AND YET POLITICIANS STILL PLAY AND RUN ON THIS TOPIC.

SO HERE IS DONALD TRUMP, WHO WAS AT THE NRA EVENT JUST RECENTLY.

AND THEY, AS YOU KNOW, MANY PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN THE INDIVIDUAL RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE GOOD GUY HAVING IT VERSUS THE BAD GUY.

SO EVERYBODY SHOULD BE ARMED.

HERE IS THEIR PROPOSITION.

>> IF JOE BIDEN IS RE-ELECTED, YOUR GUN RIGHTS WILL BE GONE.

THEY'LL BE TOTALLY GONE.

YOU KNOW, THOUGH, THE SAD PART OF THAT IS THE BAD GUYS AREN'T GIVING UP THEIR GUNS.

THE BAD GUYS AREN'T.

BUT THE GOOD PEOPLE AREN'T GIVING UP THEIR GUNS EITHER.

BECAUSE THERE IS NEVER GOING TO BE ANYBODY THAT IS GOING TO BE ASKING FOR YOUR GUN.

AND WHEN I'M REELECTED, EVERY SINGLE BIDEN ATTACK ON GUN OWNERS AND MANUFACTURERS WILL BE TERMINATED MY VERY FIRST WEEK BACK IN OFFICE, PERHAPS MY FIRST DAY.

>> YOU KNOW, THE FACTS AS YOU STATE, LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS, I GUESS THE GOOD GUYS ARE ACTUALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR MUCH OF AMERICA'S MURDER RATE.

MOST GUN DEATHS ARE THE RESULT OF ALTERCATIONS WITHIN KNOWN GROUPS, FAMILY OR FRIENDS.

SO HOW IS THAT STILL BEING, YOU KNOW, TROTTED OUT AS A LEGITIMATE DEFENSE?

>> I THINK A LOT OF IT IS FEAR THAT TRANSCENDS THE FACTS AND IS LARGER IN PEOPLE'S MINDS THAN THE EMPIRICAL REALITIES OF WHAT GUNS DO.

I THINK THE TRUMP EXCERPT SHOWS THAT THIS IS A CULTURE WAR ISSUE.

I DON'T KNOW WHETHER HIS HEART WAS EVER REALLY IN IT.

IN HIS FIRST BOOK WHERE HE WAS THINKING OF RUNNING AS AN INDEPENDENT I THINK IN 2000, YOU KNOW, HE CHASTISED THE REPUBLICAN PARTY FOR ITS SO SLAVISH FIDELITY TO THE NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION.

AND HE SEEMED PERFECTLY WILLING AT THAT STAGE TO THINK IN TERMS OF GUN CONTROL.

THE SAME AFTER RECENT SHOOTINGS.

AND THEN HE WAS TALKED BACK.

I FEEL SO MUCH OF THIS IS CONFECTED.

THERE WAS A BIG PIECE OF THIS ON THE AR-15 WHERE CONSERVATIVE PUNDITS ARE SAYING WELL, NO ONE REALLY NEEDED ONE, BUT IT WAS A GOOD WAY OF TURNING THOSE TO THE LEFT.

SO A LOT OF THIS IS CONFECTED.

AND THAT'S ONE OF THE THING THAT GIVES ME HOPE IS A YOUNGER GENERATION COULD SEE THROUGH IT, COULD THROUGH THE ARTIFICE OF MANY OF THESE ARGUMENTS.

>> THE FORETITLE "ONE NATION UNDER GUNS, HOW GUNS THREATEN OUR DEMOCRACY."

HOW DOES IT THREATEN OUR DEMOCRACY?

>> THIS IS WHERE TRY TO GO BEYOND SOME OF THE MANY BRILLIANT SCHOLARS WHO TALKED ABOUT THE SECOND AMENDMENT AND INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS IS TO UNDERSTAND DEMOCRACY REALLY AS A WAY OF LIFE, A VISION OF FREEDOM.

DEMOCRACY IS MORE THAN HOW WE ELECT OUR LEADERS OR TRY TO.

IT'S ABOUT LIVING WITHOUT FEAR OF VIOLENCE.

IT'S ABOUT FREEDOM TO INTERACT WITH ONE ANOTHER IN TRUST.

POLITICAL SCIENTISTS TALK ABOUT SOCIAL CAPITAL.

ONE OF MY FAVORITE SOURCES IN THE BOOK IS EDWARD KENNEDY WHO LOST TWO BROTHERS TO ASSASSINS' BULLETS.

HE SAYS IT'S NOT JUST THE POOL OF DEATH THAT GUNS HAVE CREATED, ITS APPALLING SPECTER OF FEARS THAT GUNS HAVE CAST OVER OUR COMMUNITIES.

AND THAT IS PRECISELY THE LANGUAGE OF THE FOUNDERS IS THE LANGUAGE OF THE ARCHITECTS OF THIS DEMOCRATIC TRADITION.

AND THAT IS WHAT GUNS ARE DESTROYING ON A DAILY BASIS.

>> DOMINIC ERDOZAIN, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

REALLY IMPORTANT INVESTIGATION.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>>> AND THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

THIS TIME TOMORROW NIGHT, I'LL BE LIVE FROM THE MUNICH SECURITY CONFERENCE, WHERE WORLD LEADERS, INCLUDING PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY WILL ASSESS UKRAINE'S BATTLEFIELD PROSPECTS AS THE WAR ENTERS ITS THIRD YEAR.

AND NATO ALLIES WILL CONSIDER WHETHER THEY CAN STILL COUNT ON U.S. SUPPORT AND LEADERSHIP.

PLUS, I'LL ASK FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE HILLARY CLINTON ABOUT ALL OF THIS AS SHE'LL BE JOINING ME LIVE.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING, AND GOODBYE FROM LONDON.

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