>> Braude: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON": FORMER LABOR SECRETARY ROBERT REICH JOINS ME ON TRUMP'S ACQUITTAL, WHETHER BIPARTISANSHIP IS WORTH THE EFFORT, AND IF MARTY WALSH IS THE RIGHT MAN FOR HIS OLD JOB.

PLUS, TWO STATE LAWMAKERS URGING GOVERNOR CHARLIE BAKER TO GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD ON THE STATE'S VACCINE ROLLOUT.

THEN, LATER, THE EXPANDED FOOD BENEFITS SOME MAY NOT KNOW THEY'RE NOW ELIGIBLE FOR.

>>> DONALD TRUMP'S IMPEACHMENT TRIAL MAY HAVE ENDED WITH AN ACQUITTAL ONCE AGAIN, BUT THE LEGAL FALLOUT IS FAR FROM OVER.

THE NAACP FILED A CIVIL LAWSUIT AGAINST THE FORMER PRESIDENT TODAY, ON BEHALF OF MISSISSIPPI CONGRESSMAN BENNIE THOMPSON, ACCUSING TRUMP OF CONSPIRING WITH FAR-RIGHT MILITIA GROUPS TO INCITE THE CAPITOL RIOT TO STOP CONGRESS FROM CERTIFYING THE ELECTION.

HOUSE SPEAKER NANCY PELOSI IS ALSO PROMISING TO CREATE AN INDEPENDENT COMMISSION TO LOOK INTO WHAT LED UP TO THE ATTACK, A MOVE EVEN ONE OF TRUMP'S TOP ALLIES SAYS HE SUPPORTS.

>> WE NEED A 9/11 COMMISSION TO FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENED AND MAKE SURE IT NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN.

>> Braude: OF COURSE 43 SENATE REPUBLICANS -- LINDSEY GRAHAM INCLUDED -- VOTED TO LET TRUMP OFF THE HOOK OVER THE WEEKEND, AND SOME CLEARLY HAVE NO PROBLEM DOWNPLAYING WHAT HAPPENED.

>> THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, THIS DIDN'T SEEM AS AN -- LIKE AN ARMED INSURRECTION TO ME.

>> Braude: A PANTS-ON-FIRE COMMENT, ACCORDING TO POLITIFACT, WHICH CITED THE ARRAY OF WEAPONS CONFISCATED FROM RIOTERS, INCLUDING SHOTGUNS, AT LEAST ONE ASSAULT RIFLE, MACHETES, SMOKE GRENADES, AND MOLOTOV COCKTAILS.

AND IT'S STATEMENTS LIKE THAT WHICH HAVE MY NEXT GUEST ARGUING, "ONE OF THE NATION'S TWO MAJOR POLITICAL PARTIES HAS ABANDONED REALITY AND DEMOCRACY."

I'M JOINED BY FORMER LABOR SECRETARY ROBERT REICH, NOW A COLUMNIST FOR "NEWSWEEK," A PROFESSOR OF PUBLIC POLICY AT THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, BERKELEY, AND AUTHOR OF THE "THE SYSTEM: WHO RIGGED IT; HOW WE FIX IT."

>> Braude: ROBERT REICH, GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> GOOD TO SEE YOU, JIM.

>> Braude: HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE THE STATE OF OUR DEMOCRACY ON THE ONE HAND, WE HAVE A PRESIDENT WHO SUPPORTS INSTITUTIONS, AND MEMBERS OF HIS PARTY WHO ACTUALLY BELIEVED HE WON.

AND WITH HAVE ABOUT 150 MEMBERS IN CONGRESS WHO THINK HE DIDN'T WIN THE ELECTION.

40% OF THE RANK-AND-FILE REPUBLICANS THINK VIOLENCE IS ACCEPTABLE IS YOU'RE NOT BEING FAIRLY REPRESENTED, AND 60% OF REPUBLICANS SAYING THAT DONALD TRUMP HAS TO LEAD US FORWARD.

WHAT IS THE STATE OF OUR DEMOCRACY?

>> WELL, THE STATE OF OUR DEMOCRACY IS, I THINK, VERY, VERY FRAGILE.

EVEN THOUGH DONALD TRUMP IS NO LONGER PRESIDENT.

ONE OF OUR TWO MAJOR POLITICAL PARTIES HAS GONE OFF THE DEEP END.

IT DOES NOT BELIEVE IN FACTS.

THERE ARE A MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN THAT PARTLY WHO CALL THEMSELVES REPUBLICAN STILL BELIEVE THAT THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN.

I DON'T SEE HOW A DEMOCRACY CAN MOVE FORWARD WHEN THAT LARGE A PERCENTAGE OF OUR VOTING REPUBLIC, OUR VOTING PEOPLE, BELIEVE THAT THE LAST ELECTION WAS ILLEGITIMATE.

AND WE HAVE A FORMER PRESIDENT WHO IS MAKING EVERY EFFORT TO CONTINUE THE METHODOLOGY ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN THE LAST ELECTION.

>> Braude: WHAT TROUBLES ME MORE THAN TRUMP, IF THAT IS POSSIBLE, ARE THE PEOPLE YOU ARE DESCRIBING.

WHY CAN'T THEY QUIT HIM?

HE LOST THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, OF COURSE THEY DON'T BELIEVE THAT.

HE DID LOSE AT LEAST HIS PARTY WITH HIM IN LEADERSHIP, LOST THE UNITED NATIONS SENATE, WHICH WILL CHANGE THE COURSE OF HISTORY FOR AT LEAST TWO YEARS.

WHY THIS BLIND CONTINUING LOYALTY?

>> IT IS A QUESTION OF WHO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, JIM.

I THINK RANK-AND-FILE REPUBLICANS, MANY OF THEM HAVE NOT SEEN A WAGE INCREASE IN 40 YEARS.

MANY ARE NON-COLLEGE GRADUATES, WHO REALLY ARE ON A DOWNWARD ESCALATOR.

THEY FIGURE THAT THE SYSTEM IS RIGGED AGAINST THEM, AND IT IS RIGGED AGAINST THEM, AND DONALD TRUMP MAYBE GAVE THEM SOME HOPE.

I'M NOT JUSTIFYING WHAT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAS COME.

I'M SIMPLY TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHERE A LOT OF TRUMP'S SUPPORT CONTINUES TO COME FROM.

HE HAS KIND OF BECOME A CULT FIGURE, A MARTYR FIGURE.

BUT THERE IS NO JUSTCATION JUSTIFICATION OR EXPLANATION, AND THE EXPLANATION WHY THE REPUBLICAN PARTY LEADERS, AND THE ELECTED OFFICIALS, PARTICULARLY IN THE SENATE, CONTINUE TO GO ALONG WITH HIM AND CONTINUE TO BE AFRAID OF HIM.

AND AFRAID OF HIS VINDICTIVENESS.

I DON'T BELIEVE FOR A MINUTE THAT MOST OF THE REPUBLICAN OFFICIALS, MOST OF THE REPUBLICAN SENATORS, AND BEFORE THAT, MOST OF THE REPUBLICAN MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE WHO VOTED AGAINST IMPEACHMENT OR CONVICTION OF IMPEACHMENT, THAT THEY REALLY BELIEVE THAT DONALD TRUMP WAS INNOCENT.

THEY KNEW EXACTLY WHAT WAS GOING ON.

MITCH McCONNELL AS WELL.

MITCH McCONNELL SAID AS MUCH.

AND MITCH McCONNELL AND OTHERS, THEY JUST -- THEY DIDN'T WANT TO ANTAGONIZE THE BASE.

IT IS KIND OF A WILD NEW EMPEROR'S NEW CLOTHES PHENOMENON HERE, WITH REGARD TO THE BASE HAVING A VIEW OF REALITY THAT IS COMPLETELY THE KIND OF FLAT-WORLD REALITY THAT DONALD TRUMP HAS BEEN PROCLAIMING.

IN FACT, IT IS JUST AN EXTENSION OF THAT WILD ANTI-DEMOCRATIC SORT OF AUTHORITARIANISM.

BUT, AGAIN, THERE IS NO LEADERSHIP, JIM.

YOU'VE BEEN IN POLITICS, YOU'VE BEEN AROUND POLITICS, FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS, NOT AS MANY AS I HAVE, BUT, LOOK, I HAVE WORKED WITH REPUBLICANS.

I'VE WORKED WITH REPUBLICANS IN THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE.

I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN NEGOTIATIONS.

I'VE COMPROMISED.

BUT I'VE NEVER ENCOUNTERED A REPUBLICAN PARTY IN WASHINGTON THAT IS AS IRRESPONSIBLE AS THIS GROUP OF PEOPLE.

>> Braude: WHICH I ASSUME IS WHY NOW THAT THE ATTENTION TURNS TO THE NEW PRESIDENT, YOU WERE SAYING GO BIG, WHICH HE IS DOING, AND DON'T WORRY ABOUT HAVING ANY OF THOSE G.O.P.

MEMBERS ALONG FOR THE RIDE.

JUST WAVE GOOD-BYE IN THE REAR-VIEW MIRROR.

YOU'RE OKAY WITH THE DEMOCRATS GOING IT ALONE STRATEGY?

>> I THINK THERE IS NO CHOICE.

BIPARTISAN MAKES SENSE IF YOU'RE DEALING WITH A RATIONAL PARTY THAT HAS A LOT OF INTEGRITY AND PRINCIPLES, AND HAS A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT VIEW THAN THE PARTY THAT HAS TO COMPROMISE.

THAT'S FINE.

THAT IS WHAT OUR SYSTEM IS ALL ABOUT.

BUT WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH A PARTY SUCH AS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN WASHINGTON, THAT HAS SHOWN ITSELF TO BE WILLING TO THROW ITS PRINCIPLES TO THE WIND OR HAVE NO PRINCIPLES WHATSOEVER, WHAT DOES BIPARTISANSHIP MEAN?

WHY SHOULD YOU COMPROMISE?

I THINK JOE BIDEN HAS THE VOTES HE NEEDS TO GET THROUGH ALMOST EVERYTHING HE WANTS TO GET THROUGH, EITHER ON A PROCESS CALLED RECONCILIATION, WHERE HE CAN DO IT WITH 51 VOTES, OR HE JUST HAS THE VOTES TO GET RID OF THE FILIBUSTER.

CERTAINLY NANCY PELOSI COULD GET THROUGH WHATEVER SHE WANTS IN THE HOUSE.

AND CHUCK SCHUMER AND THE LEADING DEMOCRATS IN THE SENATE CAN GET RID OF THE FILIBUSTER.

I THINK THEY HAVE TO DO THAT EVENTUALLY.

>> Braude: BY THE WAY, JOE BIDEN DOESN'T EVEN SUPPORT, AS FAR AS I KNOW, ELIMINATING THE FILIBUSTER.

IT IS SORT OF A MOOT POINT AT THE MOMENT.

IS IT YOUR PARTY THAT SAYS DON'T DO IT?

>> I DON'T THINK IT IS A MOOT POINT.

I THINK HE HAS TO DO IT.

HE IS NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET EVERYTHING DONE THROUGH RECONCILIATION.

HE'LL BE ABLE TO GET THIS $1.9 TRILLION COVID RELIEF BILL THROUGH, BUT EVERYTHING ELSE, INFRASTRUCTURE, VOTING RIGHTS, EVERYTHING ELSE HE TALKED ABOUT, HE IS GOING TO NEED TO GET RID OF THE FILIBUSTER.

>> Braude: SO, ROBERT REICH, LET'S PUT ON YOUR ECONOMIST HAT FOR A MOMENT AND TALK ABOUT WHETHER DEBT SHOULD MATTER AS LITTLE TO DEMOCRATS IN 2021 AS IT MATTERED TO REPUBLICANS WHEN THEY PASSED A $2 BILLION TAX BREAK.

TWO BILLION IN COVID RELIEF, AND TWO BILLION FOR THE INFRASTRUCTURE -- ORIGINALLY THE PRESIDENT WAS TALKING ABOUT A TAX BRACKET THAT SEEMS TO BE BACK-BURNER, AND A LOAN TO ELIMINATE STUDENT LOAN DEBT, IS THAT OKAY IF IT ISN'T PAID FOR?

>> I THINK IT IS PERFECTLY OKAY.

I SUBSCRIBED BEFORE THAT THE NATIONAL DEBT WAS A BIG PROBLEM, WE HAD TO BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT THE DEFICIT AND BE WORRIED ABOUT INFLATION.

ALL OF THAT IS NO LONGER NECESSARILY THE CASE.

WE HAVE HUGE UNDERUSED CAPACITY IN THIS COUNTRY, A LOT OF UNEMPLOYMENT.

A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE DROPPED OUT OF THE WAGE FORCE ALL TOGETHER.

WE'VE GOT ENTIRE BUILDINGS AND COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE THAT IS EMPTY.

WE HAVE SO MUCH BREATHING ROOM IN THIS ECONOMY, IF YOU WANT TO PUT IT THAT WAY, THAT WE CAN CERTAINLY ACCOMMODATE A MAJOR BIG, BIG FEDERAL SPENDING EFFORT, SOME OF WHICH IS ACTUALLY NOT JUST SPENDING, IT IS INVESTMENT IN THE FUTURE.

INFRASTRUCTURE, IF YOU DO IT RIGHT, PARTICULARLY WITH REGARD TO CLIMATE CHANGE, THAT IS INVESTMENT IN THE FUTURE.

IT HELPS BUILD THE ECONOMY IN THE FUTURE.

WHICH MEANS THAT THE DEBT AS A PERCENTAGE OF THE ECONOMY ACTUALLY SHRINKS.

>> Braude: DO YOU HAVE LARRY'S CELL PHONE NUMBER OR SHOULD ITGET IT TO I GET IT TO YOU?

>> NO, YOU DON'T HAVE TO.

LARRY IS COMPLETELY WRONG ABOUT THIS.

I DON'T KNOW WHY HE CONTINUES TO BANG THIS DRUM.

IT IS ADDING TO THE PUBLIC'S CONFUSION RIGHT NOW.

>> Braude: ROBERT REICH, YOU ADVOCATE BARRING DONALD TRUMP FROM RUNNING FOR OFFICE AGAIN, BUT A CRIMINAL PROSECUTION, WHICH FOUND HIM GUILTY UNDER FEDERAL LAW UNDER INSURRECTION OR REBELLION COULD LEAD TO HIM BEING BARRED FROM OFFICE -- EVEN IF THAT WERE TO HAPPEN, DOES IT IN ANY WAY DISSIPATE HIS APPEAL TO THE SAME RANK RANK-AND-FILE REPUBLICANS WE WERE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE?

OR DOES IT POSITION HIM AS EVEN A MORE PERSECUTED CHARACTER OR VICTIM OF THE WORST WITCH HUNTS IN AMERICAN HISTORY?

>> THERE IS A DANGER OF MAKING HIM A MARTYR.

BUT I THINK THAT DANGER IS SORT OF KIND OF SMALL IN COMPARISON, JIM, TO HIM CONTINUING TO SUGGEST THAT HE IS GOING TO RUN IN 2024, WHICH IS ITSELF A PROVOCATION.

HERE IS A MAN WHO DENIES THAT HE LOST THE ELECTION.

WHO SAYS THAT ACTUALLY IT WAS STOLEN FROM HIM.

AND HE IS GOING TO RUN AGAIN IN 2024?

THINK OF HOW THAT KEEPS ALIVE THE ANGER AND THE RESEPTMENTRESENTMENT AND THE POTENTIAL VIOLENCE OF A LOT OF HIS FOLLOWERS?

>> Braude: AND IT DOESN'T OPEN THE FIELD FOR GOOD PEOPLE LIKE TED CRUZ AND JOSH HAWLEY.

WAS MARTY WALSH A GOOD CHOICE FOR SECRETARY OF LABOR?

>> I THINK HE IS A TERRIFIC CHOICE.

I TALKED WITH HIM A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO.

I HAD NOT KNOWN HIM BEFORE THAT.

I HAD HEARD -- HIS REPUTATION IS VERY GOOD, NOT ONLY AS A MAYOR BUT AS SOMEBODY WHO CARES ABOUT WORKING PEOPLE.

AND I THINK HE IS GOING TO BE GREAT.

>> Braude: SO WHAT'S THE PATH TO SALVATION HERE?

WE HAVE ONE PARTY RULE AT THE MOMENT BY VERY NARROW MAJORITIES, WHICH ALLOW THEM, PARTICULARLY IF THEY ELIMINATE THE FILIBUSTER, TO DO WHAT IS NEEDED FOR THIS COUNTRY.

THE MAJORITY IN THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE ARE SO NARROW.

AND IT SEEMS TO ME TWO YEARS OF ONE-PARTY RULE DOING WHATEVER THEY CAN DO WITHOUT THE OTHER SIDE WOULD PROBABLY LEAD TO TWO MORE YEARS OF ONE-PARTY RULE -- I ASSUME BIDEN WOULD VETO SOME OF THIS.

WHAT IS THE LONG-TERM WAY OUT OF THE WILDERNESS HERE?

>> I'M NOT SURE, JIM, EXACTLY WHY THE LONG-TERM WAY OUT IS.

I CAN TELL YOU THE WAY TO FIND THE LONG-TERM WAY OUT IS FOR BIDEN TO BE A SUCCESS IN THE SENSE THAT HIS POLICIES, BOTH THE COVID RELIEF BILL AND THE INFRASTRUCTURE BILL FOLLOWING THAT, PROPEL THE ECONOMY FORWARD, CREATE ENOUGH JOBS THAT WAGES ACTUALLY DWIERP BEGIN TO RISE BECAUSE EMPLOYERS HAVE TROUBLE FINDING ALL OF THE PEOPLE THEY NEED.

AND THAT INCREASE IN WAGES AND INCREASE IN JOBS PROPELS BIDEN NOT ONLY TO THE MID-TERM ELECTIONS, EXPANDS THE NUMBER OF DEMOCRATS IN THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE.

AND AS LONG AS THE REPUBLICANS STAY DIVIDED AND DON'T HAVE A MESSAGE AND DON'T HAVE A PLAN AND DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ACCEPT THE CULT OF TRUMP, I THINK THAT IS GOOD NEWS FOR BIDEN AND THE DEMOCRATS BECAUSE THEY CAN CONTINUE TO MEET THE NATION'S NEEDS.

>> Braude: SO, BOB, DO YOU REGRET HAVING LEFT CAMBRIDGE AND SETTLING FOR BERKELEY, OR NO?

>> WELL, AFTER THE WILDFIRES AND OCCASIONAL EARTHQUAKES AND EVERYTHING ELSE WE HAVE OUT HERE, I DO OCCASIONALLY FEEL A LITTLE BIT NOSTALGIC FOR CAMBRIDGE AND BOSTON, BUT THEN I LOOK AT THE WEATHER.

AND EVERY TIME YOU HAVE A NOR'EASTER THROUGH THERE, I THINK, WELL, MAYBE IT WASN'T SUCH A BAD MOVE.

I DO MISS A LOT OF MY FRIENDS.

I MISS YOU, JIM.

>> Braude: I MISS YOU, ROBERT REICH, SO IT IS NICE TO SEE YOU.

I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU.

YOU, TOO, BYE.

>>> COVID CASES AND DEATHS HAVE BEEN TRENDING STEADILY DOWN ACROSS MOST OF THE COUNTRY IN RECENT DAYS, BUT THE HEAD OF THE C.D.C.

IS ONCE AGAIN WARNING AGAINST RELAXING RESTRICTIONS.

>> NOW IS THE TIME TO NOT LET UP OUR GUARD; NOW IS THE TIME TO DOUBLE DOWN.

>> Braude: HER MAIN CONCERN?

FAST-SPREADING VARIANTS OF THE VIRUS, INCLUDING ONE THAT ORIGINATED IN THE U.K., WHICH WE'VE LONG KNOWN WAS MORE CONTAGIOUS, BUT ARE NOW LEARNING MAY BE MORE DEADLY, TOO.

SCIENTISTS HAVE ALSO FOUND ANOTHER CONCERNING STRAIN IN THE U.K. THAT THEY SAY APPEARS SIMILAR TO THE SOUTH AFRICAN VARIANT, WHICH HAS SHOWN SOME VACCINE RESISTANCE.

RESEARCHERS ARE ALSO KEEPING AN EYE ON SEVEN DIFFERENT VARIANTS THAT ORIGINATED HERE IN THE U.S., WHICH THEY SAY ARE MUTATING IN SIMILAR WAYS, AND ALL OF IT IS HIGHLIGHTING THE NEED TO GET SHOTS IN THE ARMS AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.

BUT WHEN IT COMES TO THE ROLLOUT IN MASSACHUSETTS, SOME STATE LAWMAKERS ARE ARGUING SPEED ISN'T THE ONLY ISSUE.

21 LEGISLATORS SENT GOVERNOR CHARLIE BAKER A LETTER LAST WEEK, URGING HIM TO STOP THE COMPANION PROGRAM THAT LET'S ANYONE ACCOMPANYING SOMEONE AGE 75 OR OLDER TO A MASS VACCINATION SITE TO GET THEIR OWN SHOT, TOO.

THE LAWMAKERS ARGUE THE POLICY "WILL PUT THOUSANDS OF HEALTHY ADULTS AHEAD OF THOSE WHO HAVE THE MOST SIGNIFICANT RISK OF GETTING AND DYING FROM COVID-19."

I'M JOINED NOW BY TWO OF THEM, STATE REPRESENTATIVE TAMI GOUVEIA, FROM ACTION, WHO WROTE THE LETTER, AND STATE REPRESENTATIVE TRAM NGUYEN FROM ANDOVER.

>> Braude: REPRESENTATIVES, IT IS GOOD TO SEE YOU BOTH.

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> IESHTD I APPRECIATE YOU HAVING ME.

>> Braude: TAMI GOUVEIA, HAS THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE RESPONDED TO YOU ALL, YET?

>> NOT TO ME PERSONALLY.

I KNOW THEY RELEASED A STATEMENT SORT OF DOUBLING DOWN ON THE BUDDY SYSTEM, AND CLAIMING THEY HAVE THE SUPPORT OF SENIOR ORG.

BUT I HAVEN'T HEARD FROM HIS OFFICE DIRECTLY.

>> Braude: STAYING WITH YOU, I ALSO HAVE THE SAME CONCERNS, AND I HAVE NO EXPERTISE, AND I KNOW YOU HAVE A PUBLIC HEALTH DEGREE.

I HAVE THE SAME CONCERNS YOU HAVE.

HOWEVER, IF THE GOVERNOR IS GOING TO USE MAX VACCINATIONS SITES, WHAT IS THE ALTERNATIVE FOR AN 80-YEAR-OLD WHO DOESN'T HAVE AN ADULT CHILD TO DRIVE THEM OR A NEIGHBOR.

THE ONLY WAY TO GET THERE IS IF A BUDDY, SO TO SPEAK, DOES IT.

ISN'T THAT TRUE?

>> IT WOULD BE TRUE IF THAT WERE THE ONLY FACTORS THAT WERE DRIVING WHY OUR SENIORS ARE HESITANT TO GO TO MASS VACCINATION SITES.

I WAS JUST ON THE PHONE WITH A LOCAL SELECT BOARD MEMBER IN THE STATES, AND THEY SAID THEIR COUNCIL ON AGING REACHED OUT TO 200 SENIORS, AND HALF OF THEM HAD ALREADY GOTTEN THEIR VACCINE.

AND OUT OF THE 98 OF THEM, ONLY SIX ARE WILLING TO GO TO GILLETTE TO GO GET THE VACCINE.

SO THERE IS A LOT MORE FACTORS THAT NEED TO BE ACCOUNTED FOR.ND IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT TRANSPORTATION AND GETTING A RIDE.

SENIORS WANT TO GO LOCALLY.

THEY WANT TO GO TO A PLACE WHERE THEY TRUST THEIR PHYSICIAN OR TRUST THE PERSON WHO IS PUTTING THE SHOT IN THEIR ARM.

>> Braude: THAT MAY BE.

I CHECKED THE STATE IS' WEBSITE AT 3:00 THIS AFTERNOON, AND THERE WERE 2900 APPOINTMENTS AVAILABLE AT GILLETTE, WHICH, TO ME, IS SCANDALOUS.

TRAM NGUYEN, YOU TALK ABOUT LOCAL PUBLIC HEALTH ENTITIES BEING THE BEST RECIPIENT AND DELIVERER OF THE VACCINE.

SO IF IT AS OBVIOUS TO YOU AS IT APPEARS TO BE, WHY AREN'T THEY BEING USED?

IT IS CLOSER TO THE INDIVIDUAL, OBVIOUSLY LESS SCARY TO THE INDIVIDUAL?

WHY ARE THEY BEING UTILIZED IN SUCH A LIMITED WAY?

>> OUR BIGGEST CRITIQUE IS THE STATE IS RELYING ON THESE FOR-PROFIT ENTITIES -- >> Braude: BUT WHY?

>> WE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT.

I'M ACTUALLY TOURING THE CLINIC IN ANDOVER TOMORROW, AND WE HAVE ANOTHER MEETING ON THURSDAY.

THE MESSAGE IS CLEAR: THEY WANT ENOUGH VACCINES.

THEY WANT ENOUGH VACCINES TO VACCINATE THE SENIORS BECAUSE THEY KNOW THESE FAMILIES INTIMATELY.

I'M NOT EVEN ENTIRELY AGAINST THE BUDDY SYSTEM.

THE REALITY OF IT IS THE BUDDY SYSTEM ON THESE MASS VACCINATION WEBSITE HAVE NO SAFEGUARDS.

IT LEAVES OUR SENIORS MUCH MORE VULNERABLE.

WHEREAS, THE ANDOVER SENIOR CENTER, THEY KNOW WHO THE SENIORS AND WHO TAKES CARE OF THEM AND WHO SHOULD BE BRINGING THEM TO THESE SITES TO GET THE VACCINE IN THEM AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW, BUT THE AUDIENCE MAY NOT KNOW, YOU TWO ALSO CO-SIGNED ANOTHER LETTER, THIS TO MARY LOU CENTERS.

"MANY OF OUR CICHTS, PARTICULARLY THOSE IN HIGH RISK CATEGORIES, ARE WORKING FULL-TIME, UNABLE TO GET TO A VACCINATION SITE DURING REGULAR 9 TO 5 BUSINESS HOURS, MAKING SOME APPOINTMENTS AVAILABLE AT LEAST ONE NIGHT A WEEK."

ETC.

TALK ABOUT A NO-BRAINER, ONE NIGHT A WEEK DOING THIS -- WHEN I READ THESE TWO LETTERS, REPRESENTATIVE TAMI GOUVEIA, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE LEGISLATURE IS ALMOST LIKE SWATTING AT FLIES.

AT THE BEGINNING OF THE VACCINE ROLLOUT, THE FIRST INTERVIEW YOU'RE NEW SPEAKER DID, HE IS ON THE VACCINE ADVISORY BOARD, AND HE IS ASKED HOW IS THE VACCINE ROLLOUT GOING, AND HE SAID I HAVE NO IDEA.

TODAY HE SAYS TEACHERS SHOULD BE MOVED UP THE LIST.

DON'T YOU ALL -- I MEAN ALL 200 OF YOU -- DON'T YOU MEAN TO BE ASSERTING YOURSELVES MORE STRONGLY IF YOU BELIEVE THAT.

GOVERNOR, WELL INTENDED, AND YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT, OF COURSE, IS GOING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

BUT UNDER THE STATE OF EMERGENCY, THE GOVERNOR HAS THE AUTHORITY TO ACT WITH GOOD INTENTIONS SO WE CAN MOVE SWIFTLY AND QUICKLY.

I THINK THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE PATH HE HAS CHOSEN TO CIRCUMVENT LOCAL PUBLIC HEALTH AND INFRASTRUCTURE AND EXPERTISE AND TO RELY ON FOR-PROFIT ENTITIES TO WEIGH IN ON THE REOPENING ADVISORY COMMITTEE, THE ROLE THEY'VE HAD THERE AND THE INFLUENCE THEY'VE HAD HERE, AS WELL AS WITH THE VACCINE ROLLOUT.

I THINK IT IS TIME FOR THE GOVERNOR AND THE ADMINISTRATION TO REALLY PUMP THE BRAKES, GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD, AND MAKE SURE IT IS A HUMAN-CENTERED, PATIENT-CENTERED APPROACH.

NOT MAKING IT REALLY SUPER EASY AND EFFICIENT FOR LARGE CONGLOMERATES TO BE ABLE TO PUT SHOTS IN PEOPLE'S ARMS.

>> I WANT TO ADD TO THAT.

I THINK IT SEEMS TO OUT OF CONTEXT.

WHAT HE IS REFERRING TO IS OUR CONSTANT FRUSTRATION SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE PANDEMIC IS THAT THE ADMINISTRATION HOLDS EVERYTHING VERY CLOSELY TO THE CHEST.

WHAT WE WANT TO NE IS THE KNOW IS THE INFORMATION BEFOREHAND.

IT IS NOT THAT WE HAVE NO IDEA.

IT IS THAT WE'RE NOT GETTING THE INFORMATION WE NEED IN ORDER TO ANSWER TO OUR CONSTITUENTS AS THEY COME TO US WITH THESE ISSUES.

TRUE LEADERSHIP IS BEING ABLE TO ADMIT A MISTAKE AND TAKE ACTION.

AND I THINK THE COMPANION PROGRAM, AS IT IS BEING ROLLED OUT, IS A BIG MISTAKE.

>> Braude: I UNDERSTAND THE EMERGENCY POWER THING THAT REPRESENTATIVE TAMI GOUVEIA IS SAYING, BUT 10 MEMBERS OF CONGRESS URGED THE GORN NER TO GOVERNOR TO PUT IN A REGISTRATION PLAN THAT POOR STATES HAVE, LIKE WEST VIRGINIA.

SO WOULDN'T YOU HAVE THE POWER -- >> IT IS A PENDING ISSUE, THE CENTRALIZED REGISTRATION SYSTEM, AND WE ARE LOOKING AT WAYS TO DO THAT.

>> Braude: STARTING WITH YOU, REPRESENTATIVE TRAM NGUYEN, AND THEN REPRESENTATIVE TAMI GOUVEIA, I PULLED OUT THREE E-MAILS I GOT TODAY ON THE RADIO SHOW, FROM A SCARED 72-YEAR-OLD, A PERSON WITH CANCER, AND A 76-YEAR-OLD WITH NO FAMILY TO TAKE THEM TO A MASS SITE.

VERY QUICKLY, REPRESENTATIVE TRAM NGUYEN, IF THEY WERE YOUR CONSTITUENTS, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THEM?

>> RIGHT NOW WE'RE DOING EVERYTHING WE CAN TO MAKE SURE OUR ADMINISTRATION GIVES OUR LOCAL DEPARTMENTS THE VACCINES THEY NEEDOSO THEY CAN REALLY IMPLEMENT THEIR CLINICS.

THE IMPORTANT THING IS TO MAKE SURE WE GET THE REGULARLY SCHEDULED VACCINES SO THE CLINICS CAN BETTER PLAN FOR FUTURE APPOINTMENTS.

SO WHATEVER THE STATE IS NOT DOING, OUR LOCAL COMMUNITIES CAN AND THEY WILL.

SO MY EMPHASIS IS TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR LOCAL COMMUNITIES ARE GETTING THE VACCINES, AND THE VACCINES ARE NOT BEING DIVERTED TO THE MASS VACCINATION SITES.

THE COMPANION PROGRAM REALLY PUSHES DOWN ON PEOPLE WHO ARE 65 PLUS, PEOPLE WITH CO-MORBIDITIES -- >> Braude: AND ESSENTIAL WORKERS.

REPRESENTATIVE TAMI GOUVEIA, I'M SHORT ON TIME, WHAT DO YOU TELL THOSE CONSTITUENTS?

>> I LITERALLY SIT ON THE PHONE WITH THEM AND LOOK AT THE WEBSITE AND TRY TO HELP THEM NAVIGATE IT.

IN TERMS OF WHAT IS COMING UP IN TERMS OF C.V.S.

AND WALGREENS.

AND I'VE BEEN IN TOUCH WITH MY MUNICIPAL LEADERS, HEALTH DEPARTMENT LEADERS, AND ALSO THE SENIOR CENTERS BECAUSE THOSE ARE OPTIMUM PLACES FOR THAT PURPOSE, THE 76-YEAR-OLDS WHO NEED RIDES.

BUT IT SHOULDN'T HAVE COME TO THIS.

THE LEGISLATURE SHOULDN'T HAVE HAD TO STEP IN.

IT SO HAVE BEEN DONE AT THE LOCAL LEVEL, WHERE THERE IS ALREADY THE EXPERTISE AND THE CAPACITY TO PUT SHOTS IN PEOPLE'S ARMS.

THEY JUST NEED THE VACCINES GOING TO THE LOCAL ENTITIES.

>> Braude: THANK YOU BOTH FOR YOUR TIME AND FOR YOUR WORK.

I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

TAKE CARE AND BE WELL.

>>> WE'VE ALL SEEN THE LONG LINES OF CARS AT FOOD PANTRIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY SINCE THE PANDEMIC STARTED.

BUT IN AT LEAST SOME CASES THOSE LOOKING FOR HELP DO HAVE ANOTHER OPTION, WHICH THEY MIGHT NOT EVEN BE AWARE OF -- ONCE CALLED FOOD STAMPS -- NOW KNOWN AS SNAP.

PRESIDENT BIDEN ISSUED AN EXECUTIVE ORDER TO INCREASE THOSE BENEFITS.

LIZ NEISLOSS HAS MORE.

>> Reporter: THERE HAVE BEEN TIMES WHEN ISABEL RIOS-SMITH WORRIED ABOUT HOW TO FEED HER TWO ENERGY DAUGHTERS.

BUT IN THIS PANDEMIC MOMENT, THEY'RE ALL EATING WELL BECAUSE SHE BUYS GROCERIES THROUGH THE FEDERALLY-FUNDED PROGRAM SNAP.

IN MASSACHUSETTS, AN ESTIMATED ONE IN FIVE HOUSEHOLDS WITH CHILDREN NOW NEED HELP TO GET ENOUGH FOOD; LONG LINES AT PANTRIES SHOW THE ACUTE NEED.

BUT MANY PEOPLE LINE UP BECAUSE THEY ASSUME THEY'RE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR SNAP, AND OTHERS JUST DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE PROGRAM.

>> YOU NEED TO KNOW SOMEONE WHO'S BEEN ON THE SYSTEM, FOR ME PERSONALLY, AND YOU NEEDED TO KNOW SOMEONE WHO COULD KIND OF TELL YOU THAT THESE KINDS OF THINGS ARE OUT THERE.

>> Reporter: THE PANTRY WAS ONCE A LIFELINE FOR RIOS-SMITH AND HER KIDS, BUT IT DIDN'T ALWAYS HAVE FOOD HER DAUGHTERS WOULD EAT.

SNAP ALLOWS HER TO BUY WHAT SHE NEEDS USING A DEBIT CARD.

GETTING MORE PEOPLE ON SNAP WOULD NOT ONLY REDUCE PANTRY LINES, IT'S A MORE EFFICIENT WAY TO FEED PEOPLE.

>> FOR EVERY ONE MEAL PROVIDED BY THE FOOD PANTRY SYSTEM, SNAP CAN PROVIDE NINE.

IT GIVES YOU A CARD TO GO TO THE GROCERY STORE TO PICK OUT THE FOOD THAT YOU WILL EAT, THAT YOU KNOW YOU'RE KIDS WILL EAT, THAT'S CULTURALLY APPROPRIATE, OR IF YOU HAVE ANY DIETARY RESTRICTIONS, AND THAT'S THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY OF ADDRESSING HUNGER.

>> Reporter: BY THE STATE'S OWN ESTIMATES, SOME 700,000 LOW INCOME RESIDENTS WHO RECEIVE MASS HEALTH INSURANCE ARE ALSO LIKELY ELIGIBLE FOR SNAP.

BUT YOU HAVE TO APPLY SEPARATELY.

>> THERE IS NO COMBINED APPLICATION MECHANISM AT THIS TIME, THOUGH THE INFORMATION YOU SUBMIT FOR MASS HEALTH IS THE INFORMATION YOU SUBMIT FOR SNAP, AND THAT JUST MAKES NO SENSE WHATSOEVER.

>> Reporter: THE STATE IS NOW MOVING TO FIX THE PROBLEM.

EVEN STILL, GETTING ON SNAP DOESN'T ALWAYS MEAN LEAVING THE FOOD PANTRY BEHIND.

WHEN RIOS-SMITH GOT FULL-TIME WORK AS A MEDICAL ASSISTANT, HER BENEFITS WERE CUT, SO SHE TURNED BACK TO A PANTRY FOR HELP.

>> THE DECREASE IN ASSISTENCE IS, LIKE, DRASTIC.

IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO FEED YOU AND YOUR KIDS AND BARELY ENOUGH TO FEED YOU.

WHEN IT'S NOT ENOUGH FOR YOUR OWN SELF , LIKE, YOU WOULD, LIKE -- I WOULD JUST MAKE SURE THAT MY KIDS EAT AND THEY HAVE ENOUGH, AND THEN, LIKE, I EAT AFTER THEM.

IT GETS, LIKE -- IT'S ALWAYS LIKE YOU'RE, LIKE, BARELY HOLDING ON, SO IT GETS, LIKE, DRAINING.

>> Reporter: NOW SHE WORKS ONLY TWO DAYS A WEEK AS A PHLEBOTOMIST, AND SHE'S BACK ON THE MAXIMUM SNAP BENEFITS.

>> BECAUSE IT SEEMS THAT IF I DO LESS, THE GOVERNMENT WILL HELP ME MORE.

IF I DO MORE, THE GOVERNMENT TAKES EVERYTHING AWAY FROM ME BEFORE I CAN MAKE IT OFF THE GOVERNMENT.

SO THEN IT -- IT MAKES YOU FEEL STUCK.

>> Reporter: DESPITE THE STRUGGLES, RIOS-SMITH HAS HER EYES ON THE FUTURE AND DREAMS OF BECOMING A NURSE.

>> FOR ME, IT'S ALWAYS WITH THE IDEA THAT THIS IS TEMPORARY BECAUSE I'M WORKING TO GET TO WHERE I NEED TO BE, TO BE ABLE TO BE SELF-SUFFICIENT AND NOT RELY ON THE GOVERNMENT.

SO IT'S LIKE A STEPPING STONE.

>> Reporter: ONE SHE'S GRATEFUL FOR BECAUSE SHE KNOWS IT'S HARD TO FOCUS ON THAT NEXT STEP WHEN YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT THAT NEXT MEAL.

LIZ NEISLOSS, GBH NEWS.

>> Braude: SNAP ALSO PUTS MONEY BACK INTO THE ECONOMY, AND STATE OFFICIALS ESTIMATE THE RECENT 15% INCREASE IN SNAP BENEFITS COULD MEAN OVER $30 MILLION PER MONTH OF ADDITIONAL FUNDS INTO LOCAL ECONOMIES.

>>> THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT, BUT COME BACK TOMORROW.

RHODE ISLAND SENATOR SHELDON WHITEHOUSE WILL JOIN ME ON THE ROAD AHEAD FOR DEMOCRATS, AFTER TRUMP'S IMPEACHMENT ACQUITTAL, AND THE PUSH FOR ANOTHER STIMULUS DEAL.

PLUS, THE CHEF-OWNERS OF MIDA AND DARRYL'S CORNER BAR AND KITCHEN ON THE CAMPAIGN TO SUPPORT BLACK-OWNED RESTAURANTS THIS MONTH, MORE THAN THAN EVER.

THAT AND MORE, TOMORROW AT 7:00.

THANKS FOR WATCHING AND STAY SAFE.