>> O'Connell: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON," I'M SUE O'CONNELL, IN FOR JIM BRAUDE.

THE RUSSIAN OLYMPIC COMMITTEE IS SKATING ON THIN ICE IN BEIJING SKATING ON THIN ICE IN BEIJING AND IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT THE LATEST DOPING SCANDAL.

A FORMER OLYMPIC FIGURE SKATER AND THE WRITER BEHIND THIS PIECE IN "SLATE," ACCUSING A FAMOUS RUSSIAN COACH OF CHILD ABUSE, BOTH JOIN ME.

PLUS, ENCORE CASINO IS UNDER NEW OWNERSHIP, KIND OF.

WE'RE DIGGING INTO THE LOGISTICS BEHIND THEIR SALE TO A REAL ESTATE INVESTMENT TRUST AND THE BIG PLANS THEY HAVE AHEAD.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> O'Connell: THE WINNERS WERE ABLE TO TAKE THE EVENT AFTER ALL.

CAMILLA VALIEVA, WHO TESTED POSITIVE FOR A BANNED HEART MEDICATION, BUT WAS STILL ALLOWED TO COMPETE WHILE AN INVESTIGATION PLAYS OUT, GAVE AN UNCHARACTERISTICALLY SLOPPY PERFORMANCE AND CAME IN FOURTH.

HER TEAM, WHICH COMPETES AS PART OF THE RUSSIAN OLYMPIC COMMITTEE-- BECAUSE THE COUNTRY ITSELF IS STILL SUSPENDED OVER PAST DOPING SCANDALS-- STILL DOMINATED THE EVENT, CLAIMING BOTH GOLD AND SILVER.

THE MEDAL CEREMONY FOR THE TEAM FIGURE SKATING EVENT IS STILL ON HOLD, PENDING THE INVESTIGATION, BECAUSE VALIEVA HELPED THE R.O.C.

TAKE GOLD OVER THE U.S.

BUT SOME OF THE FOCUS ON VALIEVA, WHO'S JUST 15 YEARS OLD, HAS SHIFTED TO ANOTHER RUSSIAN FIGURE SKATING ICON, HER COACH, ETERI TUTBERIDZE.

HER ATHLETES HAVE ALL BUT DOMINATED THE SPORT FOR THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS BUT NOW SOME ARE BEGINNING TO QUESTION WHETHER HER TACTICS ARE NOT JUST EFFECTIVE, BUT ALSO ABUSIVE.

AMONG THOSE MAKING THAT CLAIM IS WRITER AND LONGTIME FIGURE SKATING FAN RITA WANG, WHO ARGUES IN A NEW "SLATE" PIECE THAT TUTBERIDZE HAS HELPED CREATE "A CULTURE OF CHILD ABUSE" WITHIN THE SPORT.

SHE JOINS ME NOW, ALONG WITH RETIRED OLYMPIC FIGURE SKATER, AND TWO-TIME NATIONAL SILVER MEDALIST, POLINA EDMUNDS.

WELCOME TO BOTH OF YOU.

THANKS FOR JOINING ME.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> O'Connell: I WANTED TO START RITA BY TAKING A LOOK AT PART OF A PULLOUT OF YOUR PIECE IN THE MAGAZINE.

JUST POINTING OUT WHAT SOME OF THE ALLEGATIONS ARE HERE THAT HER METHODS ARE NO CARETS.

THE ETERI GIRLS TALK OPENLY ABOUT NOT BEING ABLE TO DRINK WATER DURING COMPETITIONS.

THEY DO THEIR BEST TO DELAY PUBERTY BY EATING ONLY 'POWDERED NUTRIENTS' OR BY TAKING LUPRON, A PUBERTY BLOCKER KNOWN TO INDUCE MENOPAUSE."

THEY ARE SUBJECTED TO DAILY PUBLIC WAY INS AND FILL ABUSE, THEY ARE HUFFING SMELLING SAWMENTS WHILE WEARING KNEE BRACES AND COLLAPSING IN PAIN AFTER PROGRAMS.

THIS IS BASICALLY RITA BEN AN OPEN SECRET FOR QUITE A FEW YEARS NOW ABOUT THIS COACHING APPROACH, RIGHT?

>> YES.

ESSENTIALLY, FIGURE SKATING FANS HAVE LONG KNOWN ABOUT ETERI'S METHODS.

EVERY FEW MINUTES THINGS COME OUT HER SAYING MORE AND MORE EGREGIOUS THINGS.

LIKE I MENTIONED.

>> O'Connell: IN YOUR PERSPECTIVE JUST OVER THE LAST DECADE THE AGE OF THE SKATERS COMPETING HAS DROPPED AND THE CEILING HOW OLD YOU CAN BE TO CONTINUAL TO BE AN COMPETITIVE SKATER AND ENJOY THE SPORT HOW HAS THAT CHANGED IN YOUR EXPERIENCE OVER THE PAST DECADE?

>> YOU KNOW IT'S CRAZY BECAUSE EIGHT YEARS AGO I WAS THE 15-YEAR-OLD COMPETING AT THE OLYMPICS AND I WAS ONE OF TWO, MY COUNTERPART WAS A RUSSIAN 14-YEAR-OLD.

NO MATTER HOW ADVANCED I WAS IN SOCHI, I HAD THE MOST HARDEST TECHNICAL CONTENT OF ANYONE THERE.

THE IS JUDGES PRIORITIZED THE SECOND MARK AS WELL AS THE TECHNICAL EQUALLY, AND OF COURSE COMPETING AGAINST WOMEN MANY YEARS OLDER THAN I THEY COULD BRING MATURITY AND A FULL PACKAGE OF SKATING THAT THEY DIDN'T QUITE SEE WITH ME.

AND THAT IS COMPLETELY FLIP FLOPPED IN THE LAST FOUR TO FIVE YEARS.

AND NOW, EVERY SINGLE CHAMPION AND EVERY GIRL THAT'S GETTING ALL THE MEDALS IS YOUNG, IS A MIERNL UNDER THE AGE OF 18.

YOU KNOW, THE GOLD MEDAL FAVORITE WAS 15.

YOU KNOW, THE GIRLS RIGHT NOW WINNING, 16, 17.

THE WAY THAT THE JUDGING SYSTEM HAS NOW PRIORITIZED TECHNICAL, HAS RESULTED IN THIS QUAD-FIASCO OF YOUNG GIRLS BEFORE THE AGE OF PUBERTY WHO ARE FILLING THAT ARE PROGRAMS WITH QUADRUPLE JUMPS AND NOT TRYING FOR COMPONENTS AND FOR SKATING SKILLS.

IT'S BECOME A JUMPING CONTEST AND UNFORTUNATELY WE HAVE SEEN NOW WITH THIS CASE IN BEIJING THAT IT'S NOW A COMPETITION OF CHEMISTRY RATHER THAN NATURAL ABILITIES.

AND IF WE'RE NOT -- >> O'Connell: I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY I KNOW WE ALL AGREE THAT VAL YEAFER ARE 15 YEARS OLD AND THE ADULTS AROUND HER ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT IS OR ISN'T HAPPENING AND THEY ARE STILL DOING AN INVESTIGATION TO FIND OUT ABOUT THE PAST USE.

AND THAT IS STILL DEVELOPING EVEN AS WE ARE TALKING.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THIS QUAD?

I KNOW WE BECOME EXPERTS EVERY FOUR YEARS WHEN WE WATCH THE OLYMPICS ABOUT WHATEVER SPORT WE LOVE.

AND THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE QUAD MOVE IN WOMEN'S SKATING WHEN THE MEN'S SKATING IS ONLY FOR A FEW YEARS BEEN ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH THIS AND NOW IT IS SORT OF A MUST-DO.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT WHAT THE DIFFERENCE IS FOR OUR VIEWERS BETWEEN SORT OF AN ARTISTIC, ATHLETIC PERFORMANCE VERSUS THIS TECHNICAL QUAD THAT HAS TO BE DONE?

WHY IS THAT SO IMPORTANT AND DOMINATING RIGHT NOW?

>> I THINK AS POLINA MENTIONED, THE SCORING, EIGHT YEARS AGO WE WERE SEEING PEOPLE WITH MORE EXPERIENCE, EUNA KIM AND COSTNER GETTING THAT HIGH ARE MARK, AND IT WAS QUITE A SKILL TO REWARD SKATERS WITH THAT QUARTER MARK.

HER PROGRAM DOESN'T REALLY HAVE TRANSITIONS, IT DOESN'T HAVE A LOT OF THINGS THAT SKATERS WHO ARE MORE DEEMED AS ARTISTIC WOULD HAVE AND YET SHE HAS A REALLY HIGH PC MANYS MARK AND HAS HIGH TRANSITION SCORES.

SO I THINK THAT'S REALLY INTERESTING.

SOMETHING SKATING FANS HAVE BEEN COMPLAINING ABOUT FOR THE PAST FEW YEARS, WHY IS THE SKATING SCORES LIKE THIS SCORES WOULD LOOK A LOT DIFFERENT AND THE PLACEMENTS WOULD LOOK A LOT DIFFERENT.

>> O'Connell: POLINA, WE HATE TO LOVE THEM, LOVE TO HATE THEM, COURTING THEM, THRILLED THEY DIDN'T COME AND IT ALWAYS SEEMS THERE'S ALWAYS THIS CONFUSING RULES ABOUT WHO GETS PUNISHED AND WHO DOESN'T.

I WANT TO SHOW A TWEET FROM SHAKARI RICHARDSON OTWITTER.

SHE WROTE, OBVIOUSLY SHE HAD BEEN ELIMINATED FOR USING LEGAL SUBSTANCE IN SOME STATES.

CAN WE GET A SOLID ANSWER ON THE DIFFERENCE OF HER SITUATION AND MINES?

MY MOTHER DIED AND I CAN'T RUN AND WAS ALSO FAVORED TO PLACE TOP THREE.

THE ONLY DIFFERENCE I SEE IS I'M A BLACK YOUNG LADY."

OTHERS WOULD ALSO ADD TO THAT SAKE, THE OTHER DIFFERENCE IS EVEN THOUGH RUSSIA ISN'T COMPETING AS A COUNTRY THE RUSSIAN ATHLETES ARE COMPETING AND SOMEHOW THERE ALWAYS SEEMS TO BE A LITTLE THUMB ON THE SCALE ON THEIR SIDE TO GIVE THEM A PASS ALLOWINGVILLE YEAF TO COMPETE, EVEN THOUGH THE USE WAS IN QUESTION.

--VILLE A CHANCE TO COMPETE.

THOSE WATCHING THE OLYMPICS AND SUPPORT THE ATHLETES.

>> ESSENTIALLY I THINK BOTTOM LINE HERE IN THE SITUATION IS THAT NO ATHLETE REGARDLESS OF AGE SHOULD GET A PASS FOR SOMETHING AS BIG AS DOPING.

WE ALL SIGN THE SAME CONTRACTS NO MATTER WHAT AGE WE ARE.

AND THE OLYMPICS IS THE BIGGEST SPORTING EVENT IN THE WORLD.

THIS IS AN ADULT SPORT AND EVEN THOUGH MILES AN HOUR ARE COMPETING, WE HAVE TO BE -- MINORS ARE COMPETING WE HAVE TO BE HELD TO THE SAME STANDARDS.

IN TERMS OF THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE SITUATION AND SHAKARI'S, THIS SKATER IS DENYING THE INCIDENT.

SHE IS A MINOR SO SHE HAS PROTECTED PERSON'S RIGHTS IN THIS CONTRACT.

VERSUS, YOU KNOW, SHAKARI IS NOT A MINOR.

SHE DID ADMIT TO THE USAGE OF USING SOMETHING THAT WAS AGAINST THE RULES.

REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS PERFORMANCE ENHANCING.

SO THERE'S DEFINITELY DIFFERENCES IN THE SITUATION.

BUT I DO STAND WITH THE FACT THAT CAMILLA SHOULD FACE CONSEQUENCES JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER ATHLETE REGARDLESS OF AGE AND SHE SHOULD BE SUSPENDED AND NOT ALLOWED AT THE COMING OLYMPICS.

>> O'Connell: I WOULD HOPE A RENAISSANCE AND WAKING ABOUT THE TOLLS THAT AN ATHLETE IN THE SPOTLIGHT IS TAKING.

THAT SO MANY ATHLETES HAVE BEEN COMING FORWARD TALKING ABOUT THE MENTAL HEALTH CHALLENGES, THE PHYSICAL HEALTH CLALINGS, WE'RE CLOSELY LOOKING AT THE NFL IN PARTICULAR ABOUT THE FILL COST ON THOSE PEOPLE PERFORMING FOR US BASICALLY, ON SUNDAYS.

AND NOW WE'RE LOOKING AT SPORTS LIKE PRIMARILY GYMNASTICS AND SKATING AND A FEW OTHERS WHERE CHILDREN ARE COMPETING.

AND THEY DON'T SEEM TO BE COMPETING FOR THE LOVE OF THE SPORT OR FOR THE COMPETITION.

THEY SEEM TO BE COMPETING FOR SOMETHING THAT'S GREATER THAN THEM THAT THEY MAY NOT HAVE CONSENT OR THE KNOWLEDGE TO ACTUALLY GIVE CONSENT.

DO YOU THINK WE'RE AT A TURNING POINT, AND THIS IS A WORLDWIDE QUESTION OBVIOUSLY, ABOUT HOW WE LOOK AT YOUNG ATHLETES COMPETING IN THESE HIGH-STAKE EVENTS?

>> WELL, I WOULD SAY I REALLY HOPE WE'RE AT A TURNING POINT AS SOMEONE WHO NOT ONLY WATCHES FIGURE SKATING BUT ALSO GYMNASTICS AND ALL THESE OTHER SPORTS LIKE TEN TENNIS.

I'VE BEEN WATCHING THESE YOUNG GIRLS PRETTY MUCH PROCESS THEIR EMOTIONS ON LIVER TELEVISION AND IT'S BEEN HEARTBREAKING.

I'M REALLY GLAD WITH THE OLYMPICS WE ARE FINALLY ABLE TO SHINE THE SPOTLIGHT ON HOW MUCH ABUSE THERE IS IN THE SPORT AND HOW MUCH WE USE THESE YOUNG GIRLS FOR ENTERTAINMENT ESSENTIALLY.

BUT YN.

MY WORRY IS THAT -- I DON'T KNOW.

MY WORRY IS THAT WITH THE OLYMPICS ALMOST FEW DAYS GOING TO END, I'M WORRIED THAT PEOPLE WILL FORGET THAT CAMILLA TESTED POSITIVE FOR THIS DRUG AND THAT THEY'LL GO ON TO THE NEXT NEWS STORY.

SO MY HOPE IS THAT THIS IS ANOTHER PART OF A CONVERSATION ABOUT CHANGING THE CULTURE WITHIN FIGURE SKATING AND OTHER SPORTS.

>> O'Connell: POLINA, BECAUSE OF THE INTERNATIONAL NATURE OF IT THIS DOESN'T BECOME OUR STORY.

AS RITA POINTS OUT ONCE THE OLYMPICS CLOSE, WE'RE NOT REALLY GOING TO FOCUS ON THE SKATERS UNLESS THE NATIONALS, TOURING AGAIN AND HAVING THE NATIONAL COMPETITION.

BUT THE AMATEUR SKATING ORGANIZATIONS WILL BE INVOLVED, WILL THERE BE ANY CHANGES, WILL THERE BE ANY PUSHES TO CHANGE THE WAY THE SCORING HAPPENS, PUTTING PRESSURE ON THE OLYMPIC COMMITTEE, PUTTING PRESSURE ON OTHERS TO BRING THE SPORT BACK FROM THIS TECHNICAL ATHLETICISM THAT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO MAINTAIN PAST BEING 17 OR 18?

>> WELL, I THINK ONE OF THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS IN OUR SPORT RIGHT NOW HAS BEEN THE DISHONEST JUDGING.

AND IT HAS REALLY DETRACTED FROM THE EXCITEMENT THAT SKATING BRINGS AND THE RECOGNITION THAT ATHLETES WITH LONGEVITY IN THEIR CAREERS BRINGS.

YOU KNOW WE DON'T HAVE SKATERS THAT WE CAN FOLLOW ANYMORE THEIR CAREERS BECAUSE WE'RE JUST GETTING A CONVEYOR BELT OF VERY YOUNG ATHLETES EVERY SINGLE YEAR.

AND AGAIN BECAUSE OF THE WAY THE TECHNICAL HAS BEEN PUSHED A LOT OF THE QUALITIES THAT PEOPLE LOVE ABOUT FIGURE SKATING, THE BEAUTY, THE ARTISTRY, THAT'S STARTING TO BE MISSING.

SO I THINK IF WE'RE GOING TO FIX THAT AND WE'RE GOING TO BRING SKATING BACK TO THE SPORT THAT WE ALL KNOW AND LOVE THERE NEEDS TO BE SERIOUS CHANGES IN THE JUDGING SYSTEM.

>> O'Connell: RITA YOU HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING ICE SKATING, FIGURE SKATING ALL OF YOUR LIFE.

DO YOU STILL ENJOY WATCHING AND CHEERING ON FOLKS OR IS IT A BIT OF A HEARTBREAKING OR BIRTH SWEET MIXED EMOTIONS EXPERIENCE FOR YOU?

>> I WOULD SAY IT'S -- I DEFINITELY HAVE MIXED EMOTIONS.

THERE ARE SOME SKATERS WHO I LOVE WHO I ADMIRE, FOR EXAMPLE JAPAN'S NOGUCI, WHO LANDED THREE TRIPLE AXLES MPS WULT HAVING THE JUDGES SCORE HER SO LOW WHEN SHE PUT UP THAT SKATE MADE ME VERY UPSET.

I THINK THERE IS SOMETHING VERY SPECIAL ABOUT SKATING THAT I KEEP GOING BACK TO EVERY FEW YEARS.

BUT I REALLY HOPE THAT THERE ARE MASSIVE CHANGES WITHIN THE SPORT OR, I DON'T KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE NOT VERY HAPPY WITH HOW IT'S GOING RIGHT NOW.

>> O'Connell: AND POLINA ARE YOU STILL ABLE TO MORTGAGE PEOPLE TO TAKE UP STATES?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THIS IS A SPORT I GREW UP WITH.

I LOVE FIGURE SKATING AND I LOVE WHAT IT CAN GIVE TO ATHLETES WHO DECIDE TO GIVE IT A TRY AND MAKE IT PART OF THEIR LIVES.

I JUST HOPE THAT YOUNG ATHLETES IN THIS COUNTRY AS WELL AS OTHERS AREN'T DISCOURAGED BY THE OLYMPICS THAT HAVE JUST HAPPENED.

>> O'Connell: WELL, WE DIRECT FOLKS TO RITA WANG'S SLATE PIECE.

POLINA EDMUNDS, I ENJOY YOU AS WELL AND I HOPE YOU WATCH THE REST OF THE OLYMPICS THIS WEEK.

>> THANK YOU.

>> O'Connell: NEXT UP.

THE ENCORE BOSTON HARBOR CASINO IS IN NEW HANDS WELL SORT OF.

WYNN RESORTS ANNOUNCED THE $1.7 BILLION SALE OF THE EVERETT PROPERTY TO REAL ESTATE INVESTMENT TRUST, REALTY INCOME, THIS WEEK.

BUT, AS THE DEAL STIPULATES, WYNN WILL LEASE THE PROPERTY FROM REALTY INCOME, STARTING AT AN ANNUAL RATE OF $100 MILLION.

THEY PLAN TO USE THE PROCEEDS FROM THE SALE TO FUND DEVELOPMENT PLANS ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE CASINO.

THOSE PLANS INCLUDE A 2,000-PLUS CAR GARAGE, A NEARLY 1,000 SEAT EVENTS VENUE AND A 20,000 SQUARE FOOT RESTAURANT SPACE-- ALL TO BE CONNECTED TO THE CASINO VIA A FOOTBRIDGE OVER BROADWAY.

OF COURSE, THAT'S ALL AT THE WILL OF THE STATE GAMING COMMISSION.

JOINING ME TO DISCUSS WHAT THIS MEANS FOR THE FUTURE OF THE CASINO ARE JON CHESTO, REPORTER WITH THE "BOSTON GLOBE" AND PAUL DEBOLE, POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR AT LASELL UNIVERSITY.

WELCOME TO BOTH OF YOU.

I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW EXCITED I AM TO TALK ABOUT THIS SO THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> SURE THING.

>> O'Connell: JON I WARRANT TO JUMP IN WITH YOU FIRST.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO ME AND OUR VIEWERS WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE.

>> SO IT'S A FAIRLY ROUTINE AT LEAST IN THE CASINO INDUSTRY SALE LEASE BACK, WHERE THE COMPANY SELLS THE REAL ESTATE, THAT WOULD BE THE LAND AND THE BUILDING BUT STAYS IN AND PAYS RENT TO A NEW LANDLORD.

AND SO THAT'S WHAT WYNN RESORTS IS DOING.

THEY'RE KEEPING, THEY'RE OBVIOUSLY NOT GOING TO LEAVE, THEY'RE GOING TO RUN THE CASINO, BUT THEY DECIDED IT MAKES MORE SENSE TO GET THE CASH UP FRONT.

THE DEAL IS NOT GOING TO END UNTIL THE END OF THE YEAR, BUT THEY'RE GOING TO GET $1.7 BILLION, A LOT OF MONEY AND THEN THEY CAN RETIRE DEBT.

THEY ARE PAYING ESSENTIALLY A MORTGAGE ON THE PROPERTY THAT THEY DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT ANYMORE.

THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY RENT OF $100 MILLION A YEAR, THEY'VE PROBABLY DONE THE NUMBERS AND REALIZED THAT IS EASIER THAN MAKING THE MORTGAGE.

THEY WILL GET SOME MONEY THAT THEY CAN THEN USE, THEY'RE EXPANDING, LOOKING AT A PROJECT IN THE UNITED ARAB EMIRATES AND THEY'RE LOOKING TO BUILD ACROSS THE STREET, THEY'RE RIGHT NOW BEFORE THE GAMING COMMISSION WITH A THEATER GARAGE RESTAURANT SPACE PROPOSAL AND A FOOTBRIDGE TO CONNECT IT ALL TO THE CASINO OVER BROADWAY.

SO THEY HAVE EXPANSION PLANS AND THEY NEED THE CASH TO PULL THOSE OFF.

>> O'Connell: JON WOULD THIS BE SHOCKING TO PEOPLE WHO WERE INVOLVED IN THE PROCESS OF BOTH FROM THE CITIES AND TOWNS AND THE ARGUMENT OVER WHEREVER IT WAS AN WHERE BOSTON WAS AN EVERYTHING THAT WENT ON, YOU KNOW, I'M READING THE COMMENTS IN YOUR STORY AT THE BOSTON GLOBE TODAY AND SOME PEOPLE LIKE FINALLY THAT'S WHAT THEY REALLY WANTED TO DO ALL ALONG.

BUT IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE NOW THIS IS JUST SORT OF A FINANCIAL MOVE FOR THEM TO FREE UP CASH RATHER THAN MAYBE GETTING TO A BANK AND GETTING A LOAN.

>> YES, THAT'S SORT OF WHAT'S GOING ON.

YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT LIKE THEY'RE LEAVING TOWN.

>> O'Connell: RIGHT.

>> I THINK THEY MIGHT -- CERTAINLY THEY SPENT MORE BUILDING THIS THAN THEY EXPECTED TO.

THEY SPENT $2.6 BILLION TO DEVELOP THIS PROJECT.

AND SO YOU KNOW, THE MORTGAGE -- THE DEBT THAT'S ON THE PROPERTY, THEY PROBABLY ARE EAGER TO RETIRE AND START SPENDING MONEY ON SOMETHING ELSE.

I MEAN OF COURSE THEY DIDN'T ANTICIPATE THE PANDEMIC AND NOW THEY'RE DOING PRETTY WELL.

BUT THEY REALLY STRUGGLED BEFORE THE PANDEMIC PARTICULARLY WITH SLOT MACHINES.

I THINK THEY FIGURED OUT, THE SLOT MACHINE FORMULA TO ATTRACT MORE SLOTS PLAYERS AND NOW IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS WITH THE EXCEPTION OF JANUARY BUT JANUARY IS A SLOW MONTH FOR A LOT OF REASONS, THEY SORT OF GOT THEIR FOOTING BACK AGAIN.

SO I DON'T THINK IT WOULD BE A SHOCK, WE'VE SEEN A LOT OF CASINO COMPANIES DO IT, MGM DID IT, IN SPRINGFIELD, THEY'RE SORT OF AN AFFILIATED GROWTH PROPERTY, MGM OFTEN SELLS THEIR DOOFNS AND LEASES BACK.

>> O'Connell: PAUL, WHAT WAS THE TEMPERATURE OF THE CASINOS IN THE STATE OF MASSACHUSETTS, JON WAS ALLUDING TO IT, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DATA DURING A PANDEMIC AND THE MOST RECENT SORT OF REPORTS I LOOKED SAID THEY WERE OPTIMISTIC, CLEARLY THEY ARE OPTIMISTIC BECAUSE THEY'RE DOING A DEAL LIKE THIS.

HOW DOES THAT LOOK FOR THE TAX REVENUE FOR THE STATE?

>> SO THE NUMBERS SEEM TO MIRROR AT LEAST IN TERMS OF PATTERN.

THE REVENUE NUMBERS FROM JANUARY OF 2020, DECEMBER, 2019, WITH MINOR FLUCTUATIONS.

BUT I MEAN, I BELIEVE THERE IS CAUSE TO BE OPT MUNICIPAL MISCELLANEOUS.

BUT THE BIG -- OPTIMISTIC.

BUT THERE IS A LAB OF LONG TERM DATA.

>> O'Connell: JON I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THIS BRIDGE THAT THEY WANT TO RUN FROM THEIR PROPOSAL ACROSS THE STREET AND, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BROADWAY SO I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S EVERETT OR BOSTON.

>> IT'S ACTUALLY ALL EVERETT.

>> O'Connell: ALL EVERETT SO IT'S AN EVERETT SITUATION.

I WAS JOKING WS PRODUCERS BEFORE THIS THAT I COULD TALK FOR DAYS ABOUT PUBLIC BRIDGES, BRIDGES BEING BUILT OVER PUBLIC ROADWAYS BY PRIVATE COMPANIES.

ALL KIDDING ASIDE, IS THERE ANYTHING THAT YOU SEE THAT WOULD BE A STUMBLING BLOCK FOR THE GAMING COMMISSION TO APPROVE THIS?

I MEAN IT SOUNDS DELIGHTFUL TO HAVE A BIG VENUE AND MORE PARKING AND ALL THAT.

BUT IT'S NOT JUST GOING TO BE JUST SMOOTH SAILING IT?

>> WELL, WHAT HAPPENED WAS THAT WYNN ORIGINALLY SAID THEY WANTED AN 1800 SEAT THEATER IN THAT PROPERTY ACROSS THE STREET.

THAT WOULD BE CONNECTED BUY WALKWAY.

AND THEY SAID, THEY WERE VERY WELL AWARE THAT THE CASINO LAW DOES NOT ALLOW THEATERS BETWEEN THE SIZE OF 1,000 SEATS AND 3500 SEATS.

BUT THEY SAID THIS DOESN'T COUNT BECAUSE THIS IS A SEPARATE PROPERTY ACROSS THE STREET.

HOWEVER THE GAMING COMMISSION IS LOOKING AT IT VERY CLOSELY AND WYNN IS READING THE TEA LEAVES AND THEY SAID YOU KNOW WHAT WE'RE GOING TO PLAY IT SAFE AND WE'RE GOING TO PROPOSE A 999 THEATER TO STAY UNDER THE THOUSAND SEAT THRESHOLD.

SO WHAT WYNN WOULD LOVE IT IF THE GAMING COMMISSION SAYS THAT THAT PROPERTY ACROSS THE STREET IS TECHNICALLY NOT PART OF THE CASINO NOT TO BE RECEIPTED AS PART OF THE CASINO, THAT WAY THEY COULD GO BACK TO THE 1800 SEAT PROPOSAL.

SO THAT'S REALLY WHAT HANGS IN THE BALANCE IS WILL THE GAMING COMMISSION DECIDE IT'S GOING TO REGULATE THE PROPERTY ACROSS THE STREET AS ESSENTIALLY PART OF THE CASINO SITE.

AND IF IT DOES, THEN THE CASINO, THE LAW THAT SAYS YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY THEATERS IN A CASINO MORE THAN A THOUSAND SEATS WHICH WAS PUT IN TO PROTECT THE INCUMBENT THEATERS ACROSS THE STATE.

IT WAS WHO DIDN'T WANT TO BE BLIND SIDED BY CASINOS WHICH CAN ESSENTIALLY SUBSIDIZE PERFORMERS.

SO THAT'S REALLY, I MEAN, WYNN DOES NOT WANT TO BE REGULATED.

THEY DO NOT WANT THAT PROPERTY TO BE REGULATED AS PART OF THE CASINO AND THE GAMING COMMISSION IS DECIDING WHETHER OR NOT TO BE -- TO CONSIDER IT PART OF THE TECHNICALLY PART OF THE CASINO.

AND YOU COULD ARGUE, WELL, IT'S CONNECTED BY ANNAL ENCLOSED WALKWAY -- AN ENCLOSED WALKWAY.

EVEN IF IT'S TECHNICALLY A SEPARATE PARCEL ACROSS THE STREET, IT IS ESSENTIALLY AN ARM OF THE CASINO BUILDING.

THAT'S WHAT'S PLAYING OUT HERE AT THE GAMING COMMISSION.

THAT IS THE UNCERTAINTY.

IF THE WYNN DOES NOT WANT IT, I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE THEATER OWNERS WOULD MUCH -- YOU KNOW THERE ARE MANY RIVAL THEATERS THAT ARE WATCHING THIS CLOSELY AND THEY WOULD MUCH PREFER A 999 SEAT THEATER THAN AN 1800 SEAT THEATERS.

>> O'Connell: TO UNDERSCORE, CASINOS CAN LOSS LEADERS AND -- >> ALL SORTS OF THINGS.

THEY CAN BUY BLOCKS OF TICKETS, THEY CAN OFFER A MUCH BIGGER PRICE TO THE ARTIST AND IF YOU'RE AN INDEPENDENT THEATER COMPETING AGAINST A CASINO, YOU TALK TO THEM ABOUT WHAT FOXWOOD AND MOHEGAN HAS DONE IT'S A DIFFICULT PROPOSITION.

>> O'Connell: WE DON'T OWN THE PROPERTY THE THEATER IS ON, WHAT MIGHT BE A QUASIPUBLIC -- >> THIS LEASE BACK JUST BECAME PUBLIC SO IT'S NOT NECESSARILY GOING TO BE INTRODUCED INTO THE GAMING COMMISSION DEBATE BUT IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW IT DOES GET INTRODUCED HOW IT PLAYS OUT.

>> O'Connell: PAUL, WHAT IS THE GAMING FIELD, WE HAVEN'T GOT OUR GAMBLING YET IN MASSACHUSETTS AND I KEEP MEETING PEOPLE WHO KEEP RIDING TO OTHER STATES SO THEY CAN GAMBLE ON THEIR SPORTS.

THE DRAFT KINGS OF THE WORLD.

IS THERE ANY CONCERN FROM THE -- FROM THESE BRICK AND MORTAR PLACES THAT THE GAMBLING WE'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF SORT OF A CULTURE SHIFT OR BEGINNING OF A CULTURE SHIFT WHERE PEOPLE WON'T BE GOING TO CASINOS AS MUCH ONCE WE START REEMERGING AGAIN AS THE PANDEMIC SUBDUES A LITTLE BIT?

>> I THINK THEY'RE LOOKING AT ONLINE GAMBLING.

EXCUSE ME FOR THE CAUTION SIGN, THEY'RE LOOKING AT TWIN RIVERS, I SAW PEOPLE ALL THE TIME WHEN THEY GET TO DRIVE UP TO NEW HAMPSHIRE, WATCHING THINGS.

IS THERE A LOST OPPORTUNITY HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS, ABSOLUTELY.

BUT THE QUESTION IS HOW DO WE REGULATE THAT.

AND HOW DO WE ATTACH THAT.

SEEING A BIG DISPARITY IN DRAFT KINGS.

AND BRICK AND MORTAR CASINOS AND I THINK THAT'S JUST SOMETHING WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH AT SOME POINT.

BUT AGAIN, THEY HAVE -- LEGISLATURE DOES HAVE A TOUGH JOB.

THEY HAVE TO BECOME EXPERTS IN EVERYTHING.

REGULATE IN ONE -- SO THEY TEND LITTLE MORE THAN IN THRIEG TO KNOW, IF IT TAKES A LITTLE LONGER FOR THEM TO DO IT, YOU KNOW SO BE IT.

IT'S BETTER TO DO IT RIGHT.

>> O'Connell: JON ARE YOU HEARING, THERE IS ALL THESE CASINO DEVELOPMENTS AND ISSUES STILL IN PLAY ACROSS THE STATE EVERYWHERE FROM MARTHA'S VINEYARD TO WESTERN PARTS OF THE OF MASSACHUSETTS.

IS THERE A FEELING THERE IS A MARKETPLACE FOR HAD, THERE ARE ENOUGH CUSTOMERS TO MAKE ALL OF THIS WORTHWHILE, NOT SO WORRIED ABOUT WYNN, BUT SOME SMALLER CASINOS AND CERTAINLY THE NATIVE AMERICAN TRIBES THAT ARE LOOKING FOR LICENSING, IS -- >> I THINK THE MOST LIKE -- WE'VE SEEN SORT OF A RESURGENCE OF INTEREST IN THE MASHPI WAMPANOA K THE EQUINA WAMPANOA, THEY WANT TO BUILD A CASINO.

I THINK AQUINNA BEING ON A REMOTE PART OF MARTHA'S VINEYARD DOES NOT HAVE A BIG APPEAL TO THE CASINO OWNERS, BUT FROM GENTING, THE GLOBAL CASINO OWNER.

THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WAS NOT KEEN ON ALLOWING THERE, I THINK THE TIDE HAS TURNED A BIT AND THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION SEEMS MORE OFTEN TO ALLOWING A CAVERN INTONTONIN TAUNTON.

THEY SPENT A LOT OF MONEY AND TIME IN SEEING THAT COME TO FRUITION.

THE ONLY OTHER PLACE IS IN BROCKTON BUT I THINK AS LONG AS TAUNTON REMAINS IN PLAY, THE TWO CITIES ARE TOO CLOSE.

NOBODY IS GOING TO TRY TO COMPETE WITH A TRIBAL CASINO IN TAUNT OFFERINGSN.

YOU CAN SEE THE NUMBERS.

EVERY TIME A NEW CASINO OPENS, ARE ELSE'S NUMBERS TAKE A HIT.

I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH ROOM THERE IS FOR ANOTHER ONE.

>> O'Connell: THE ISSUE IS FOR THE FEDERAL RECOGNITION OF THE STWRIEB.

JOHN CHESTO AND PAUL DEBOLE, THANK YOU SO MUCH, I LOOK FORWARD TO UPDATING ME ON THE FOOTBRIDGE.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING ME.

THAT'S I.T.

FOR TONIGHT BUT COME BACK TORMENT FOR TALKING POLITICS.

ADAM REILLY AND HIS PANEL WILL DIVE INTO DANIELLE ALLEN LEAVING THE RACE FOR GOVERNOR AND CALLING OUT THE POLITICAL SYSTEM HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS.

PLUS, QUESTIONS OF MONEY, POWER, AND WHETHER THEY CAN CO-EXIST WITH THE REAL CHANGE BOSTON MAYOR MICHELLE WU CAMPAIGNED ON.

THAT AND MORE, TOMORROW AT 7:00.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

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