>>> HELLO, EVERYONE.

WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & COMPANY."

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> BIDEN STEPS UP PRESSURE ON NETANYAHU.

THIS TIME SANCTIONING VIOLENT SETTLERS IN THE WEST BANK.

FORMER U.S. MIDDLE EAST NEGOTIATOR AARON DAVID MILLER JOINS ME.

>>> UKRAINE SAYS IT SUNK A RUSSIAN SHIP AS ITS EMBATTLED ARMY CHIEF BREAKS HIS SILENCE.

WE BRING THE LATEST ON KYIV'S STRUGGLE FOR SURVIVAL.

>> I DON'T SEE IT AS A JOB REALLY, I SEE IT AS MY HOBBY THAT BECAME THIS DREAM LAND.

>> ONE OF THE BEST TENNIS PLAYERS TO EVER PLAY THE GAME.

A LOOK BACK AT CHRISTIAN'S CONVERSATION WITH ROGER FEDERER.

20 YEARS SINCE HE FIRST BECAME WORLD NUMBER ONE.

PLUS -- >> WHEN I TRIED TO BE A JOURNALIST THEY WERE LIKE, NO, YOU CAN'T DO THAT BECAUSE WE NEED TO ATTACK THE DEMOCRATS.

>> THE MAGA DIARIES.

REPORTER TINA NGUYEN TALKS ABOUT HER LIFE INSIDE THE RIGHT WING AND WHY SHE WALKED AWAY.

>>> AMANPOUR & COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

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AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> HELLO, EVERYONE.

I'M BIANNA GOAL LOW DREEG GA IN FOR CHRISTIANA.

AFTER SCALING BACK, THE UNITED STATES IS NOW TURNING ITS ATTENTION TO THE WEST BANK.

THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION ISSUED SANCTIONS AGAINST FOUR ISRAELI SETTLERS FOR ACTS OF VIOLENCE THERE.

THE STATE DEPARTMENT ACCUSES ONE OF THE MEN INITIATING AND LEADING A RIOT WHICH RESULTED IN THE DEATH OF AT LEAST ONE PALESTINIAN CIVILIAN.

THE UNITED NATIONS REPORTED A STAGGERING RISE AFTER OCTOBER 7th.

THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT CALLS THE SANCTIONS WHOLLY UNNECESSARY AND PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU SAYING THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF RESIDENTS THERE ARE LAW ABIDING CITIZENS.

AARON DAVID MILLER WAS A MIDDLE EAST NEGOTIATOR FOR THE UNITED STATES AND JOINS ME FROM WASHINGTON FOR MORE ON THIS AND OTHER OTHER SUBJECTS IN THE REGION.

THIS WAS A DRAMATIC STEP FROM THE U.S. GOVERNMENT, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT, UNPRECEDENTED.

THEY WOULD LEVEL SANCTIONS AGAINST ISRAELI INDIVIDUALS.

THE TIMING IS INTERESTING AND WORTHY AS WELL GIVEN THAT IT COMES JUST DAYS AFTER MEMBERS OF THE PRIME MINISTER'S OWN CABINET ATTENDED AN EVENT WHERE A CONFERENCE PROMOTING RESETTLING IN GAZA.

THIS CLEARLY IS SENDING A MESSAGE, BUT BEYOND JUST THE SYMBOLISM INVOLVED AND WHATEVER THE REPERCUSSIONS WOULD BE FOR THESE SPECIFIC INDIVIDUALS, WHAT ELSE SHOULD WE MAKE OF THIS?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

THERE ARE A LOT OF MOTIVES HERE.

NUMBER ONE, THE PRESIDENT HAS DEMONSTRATED AND WE'RE ABOUT TO ENTER THE FIFTH MONTH OF HIS WORK, FEBRUARY 7th, AN EXTRAORDINARY STUNNING COURT FOR ISRAEL.

THAT'S CONVICTION ON HIS PART.

PARTLY DOMESTIC POLITICS, TOO.

HE'S BEEN LESS READY AND WILLING, ACTUALLY, TO TAKE THE CONCERNS OF PALESTINIANS INTO ACCOUNT.

THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT.

HE DEMONSTRATES TREMENDOUS EMPATHY TOWARDS THE ISRAELIS, TOWARDS THE TERROR SURGE.

INDISCRIMINATE, WILLFUL, SADISTIC KILLING.

LESS SO WITH RESPECT TO THE PALESTINIANS.

THIS IS PART OF THE ONGOING EFFORT TO SORT OF FILL IN THE FRAME AND I THINK IT'S WELL INTENTIONED AND IT'S MEANINGFUL.

YOU KNOW, THE EXPANSE OF THIS EXECUTIVE ORDER IS EXTRAORDINARY.

IT ESSENTIALLY WOULD ALSO INCLUDE GOVERNMENT ENTITIES THAT AIDED AND ABET THREATS AND/OR ACTUAL VIOLENCE AGAINST PALESTINIANS.

IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE THE FOUR ISRAELIS DESIGNATED, TWO ARE CHARGED WITH NOT JUST INTIMIDATING PALESTINIANS, INTIMIDATING AND CAUSING HARM TO ISRAELI ACTIVISTS IN THE WEST BANK AS WELL.

I THINK THIS IS PART OF THAT SORT OF FRAME.

WHAT PRACTICAL APPLICATION WILL IT HAVE.

WILL IT ESSENTIALLY PREVENT THE POLICIES OF AN ISRAELI GOVERNMENT TO MINISTERS IN PARTICULAR THAT ARE PURSUING POLICIES THAT ARE DESIGNED TO ANNEX THE WEST BANK IN EVERYTHING BUT NAME?

I DOUBT IT.

BUT IT'S STILL A VERY STRONG SIGNAL OF ADMINISTRATION INTENT ON THIS ISSUE, PARTICULARLY NOW AS THEY MOVE TOWARDS TRYING TO INTEGRATE AN INITIATIVE BASED AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE ON TWO STATES.

>> TWO OF THOSE FAR RIGHT MEMBERS OF THE GOVERNMENT THERE THAT YOU MENTIONED OR YOU DIDN'T MENTION BY NAME BUT I WILL, THAT'S THE FINANCE MINISTER AND THE SECURITY MINISTER IN THE COUNTRY, AND THEY RESPONDED TO THE NEWS YESTERDAY.

I WANT TO READ FOR OUR VIEWERS WHAT HE WROTE ON X.

THE SETTLER VIOLENCE CAMPAIGN IS AN ANTI-SEMETIC LIE THAT ENEMIES DESIGNATE TO HARM THEM AND THUS SMEAR THE ENTIRE STATE OF ISRAEL.

I WILL KEEP, GOD WILLING, TO WORK FEARLESSLY.

IF THE PRICE IS U.S. SANCTIONS AGAINST ME, SO BE IT.

I MEAN, HERE HE IS TAKING THE ROLE OF A MARTYR IN A SENSE.

WHAT PRESSURE DOES THIS PUT ON PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU?

AND HOW BIG OF A HINDRANCE IS THIS REALLY IN TERMS OF U.S./ISRAELI RELATIONS GOING FORWARD, ESPECIALLY DURING A WAR?

>> IT'S FASCINATING QUESTION AND THE RIGHT ONE.

YOU KNOW, FOR BENJAMIN NETANYAHU ON TRIAL FOR BRIBERY NOW THREE YEARS RUNNING IN THE JERUSALEM DISTRICT COURT, HE'S SET TO TESTIFY, IT'S CRITICALLY IMPORTANT HE MAINTAIN HIMSELF IN POWER.

CRITICAL TO THAT IS CATERING, ENABLING, ACQUIESCING TO BOTH OF THE MEN.

THEY WILL BOLT FROM THIS COALITION.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE POLLS, HE ACTUALLY STANDS TO GAIN IN THE EVENT THAT THERE WERE LESSONS.

THE OTHER NOT SO MUCH.

BEN GAVIR, YES.

THERE IS THE THREAT HAPPENING OVER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU'S HEAD.

I DOUBT WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS GOING TO FUNDAMENTALLY ALTER EITHER OF THEIR OBJECTIVES WHEN IT COMES TO THE WEST BANK, BUT IT COULD HAVE A CHILLING IMPACT.

I MEAN, THE UNITED NATIONS HAS BEEN REPORTING SINGS OCTOBER 7th 500 INCIDENTS OF SETTLER INTIMIDATION AND VIOLENCE.

EIGHT PALESTINIANS KILLED INCLUDING A CHILD.

SO I THINK THIS IS A SIGNIFICANT AND SERIOUS PROBLEM.

IT WILL NOT STOP THE SETTLEMENT ENTERPRISE BUT IT DOES SEND A SIGNAL THAT THE ADMINISTRATION IS PREPARED, IT SEEMS, TO IMPOSE SOME MEASURE OF COST AND ACCOUNTABILITY, AT LEAST ON THE MOST EXTREME MANIFESTATIONS OF SETTLER ACTIVITIES IN THE WEST BANK.

>> WE'RE ALSO SEEING THE RIPPLE EFFECTS OF THE SANCTIONS LEVELED BY THE UNITED STATES GIST NOW.

CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN TRUDEAU SAID CANADA IS LOOKING TO IMPOSE SANCTIONS ON EXTREMISTS AND SETTLERS IN THE WEST BANK AS WELL.

THIS COMES AS THERE ARE REPORTS THAT THE STATE DEPARTMENT IS EXPLORING, POSSIBLY RECOGNIZING A PALESTINIAN STATE FOLLOWING THE END OF THE WAR IN GAZA.

THERE ARE THOSE IN ISRAEL THAT ARE PUSHING BACK AGAINST THIS AND WE SHOULD NOTE THE STATE DEPARTMENT ITSELF IS DOWNPLAYING THE SIGNIFICANCE OF ANY OF THIS.

I WANT TO QUOTE A STATEMENT FROM MATT MILLER, THE SPOKESPERSON, SAYING THERE HAS BEEN NO POLICY SHIFT IN THE ADMINISTRATION.

WE HAVE MADE QUITE CLEAR PUBLICLY THAT WE SUPPORT THE ESTABLISHMENT OF AN INDEPENDENT PALESTINIAN STATE.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE REPORT OF THE TIMINGS THAT IT'S CLEAR THERE IS A LOT OF FRUSTRATION THAT WE DO NOT SEE ANY ATTEMPT EVEN BY THIS GOVERNMENT OF PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU'S TO PUT TOGETHER A DAY AFTER PLAN.

WHAT A TWO-STATE SOLUTION MAY LOOK LIKE.

OF COURSE, THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT WILL LEAD HIM TO GET WHAT HE IS HOPING TO ACHIEVE, AND THAT IS NORMALIZATION WITH SAUDI ARABIA.

>> YEAH, YOU KNOW, IN MY 25 YEARS DEPARTMENT OF STATE MOSTLY WORKING ON ARAB ISRAELI PALESTINIAN NEGOTIATIONS, I'VE WRITTEN SEVERAL MEMOS, I'M SURE, THAT EXPLORE SEVERAL OPTIONS.

I DON'T SEE THAT, FRANKLY, AS A REALISTIC OR PRACTICAL OPTION FOR THE UNITED STATES.

IF THEY RECOGNIZE A PALESTINIAN STATE, THEY'D HAVE TO RECOGNIZE PRECISELY WHERE THAT STATE IS.

I CAN SEE, HOWEVER, THE ADMINISTRATION AT SOME POINT THIS SPRING LAYING OUT WHAT I WOULD DESCRIBE TO YOU AS THE BIDEN PARAMETERS WHICH WOULD, IN EFFECT, MAKE MORE SPECIFIC WHEN U.S. TALKS ABOUT A PALESTINIAN STATE, WHAT ARE THEY TALKING ABOUT BASED ON JUNE 1966 BORDERS WITH MUTUALLY AGREEABLE SWAPS.

I CAN SEE THAT HAPPENING, BUT AS YOU POINT OUT, THE KEY ISSUE HERE IS WHAT IS MR. NETANYAHU, WHO FRANKLY IDEOLOGICALLY, POLITICALLY AND PRACTICALLY IS OPPOSED TO ANYTHING REMOTELY ACCEPTABLE TO PALESTINIANS, WHAT IS HE PREPARED TO DO?

AND THAT REMAINS I THINK AN OPEN QUESTION.

THEY'RE PREPARING AN INITIATIVE.

YOU'RE RIGHT.

IT HAS A LOT TO DO WITH USING ISRAELI/SAUDI NORMALIZATION AS INCENTIVE.

THE QUESTION IS HOW MUCH CAN MR. NETANYAHU'S GOVERNMENT HANDLE AND HOW RISK READY IS THE PRIME MINISTER PREPARED TO BE IN ENDORSING SUCH A CONCEPT?

I THINK WE'RE IN FOR A VERY UNCERTAIN PERIOD.

THE KEY TO ALL OF THIS, BRIANNA, IS THE NEGOTIATIONS UNDERWAY LED BY CIA DIRECTOR BURNS AND THE HEAD OF ISRAEL'S MOSSAD TO SEE WHETHER OR NOT YOU CAN GET A HOSTAGE FOR PRISONER EXCHANGE AND DEESCALATION IN GAZA.

WITHOUT THAT, ALL OF THIS TALK IS A THOUGHT EXPERIMENT.

>> YEAH.

THAT'S SUCH AN IMPORTANT POINT TO MAKE.

LISTEN, NO DOUBT PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU IS KNOWN TO BE RISK AVERSE AND A HINDRANCE ON THIS ISSUE OF WHAT A DAY AFTER LOOKS LIKE AND THE ROAD TOWARDS A TWO-STATE SOLUTION AT SOME POINT.

THAT HAVING BEEN SAID, THE OTHER HINDRANCE IS HERE, HAMAS.

THEY ARE STILL EFFECTIVELY IN POWER.

THEY HAVE 136 HOSTAGES AND THEY APPEAR TO BE CALLING THE SHOTS NOW IN TERMS OF WHAT THEY WILL AND WON'T AGREE TO IN THIS DEAL.

IS ENOUGH PRESSURE AND ATTENTION BEING PUT ON BRINGING THIS ORGANIZATION, THIS TERROR ORGANIZATION AS THE U.S. DEEMS THEM, TO AN END?

AND THIS GOES BEYOND, I'M ASKING, EVEN JUST RELEASING THESE HOSTAGES, WHICH IS THE MOST PRESSING ISSUE RIGHT NOW?

>> I MEAN, THAT IS REALLY -- YOU IDENTIFIED -- YOU BROKE THE CODE HERE.

THAT'S A CRITICALLY IMPORTANT POINT.

THE SENIOR LEADERSHIP OF HAMAS SEEMS TO BE ENSCONCED IN TUNNELS.

THE THREE KEY ARCHITECTS AND IMPLEMENTERS OF THE OCTOBER 7th TERROR SURGE ARE ALIVE AND PRESUMABLY WELL.

HAMAS MAY HAVE 15,000 FIGHTERS, PERHAPS MORE, AND THE REAL KEY QUESTION SEEMS TO ME IS WHEN ALL OF THIS IS OVER, EVEN WITH THE HOSTAGE FOR PRISONER EXCHANGE, HAMAS MAY WELL REMAIN AS A SORT OF RUMP ORGANIZATION CAPABLE OF INFLUENCING DIRECTLY THE ECONOMY AND THE POLITICS OF GAZA.

AND WITH ALMOST NO LEGITIMACY.

THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY, MAHMOUD ABBAS CONTROLS 40% OF THE WEST BANK UNDERMINED BY HIS OWN CORRUPTION AND AUTOCRATIC TEND TENDENCIES.

WHO IS GOING TO BE THE LEGITIMIZING AGENT TO BRING PALESTINIAN GOVERNMENTS TO GAZA?

AND RIGHT NOW THE MOST CREDIBLE PALESTINIAN ORGANIZATION PROBABLY IN THE EYES OF GAZANS AND IN THE EYES OF MANY WEST BANKERS IS HAMAS, A TERROR ORGANIZATION.

THE ORGANIZATIONAL EMBODIMENT OF AN IDEA, WHICH IS DESTRUCTION OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL.

I'M NOT SURE WE'VE FACTORED IN TO THE ANALYSIS IN THE QUOTE, UNQUOTE DAY AFTER SCENARIO WHAT ROLE HAMAS IS STILL LIKELY TO PLAY EITHER INTIMIDATING PALESTINIANS OR EXERCISING SIGNIFICANT INFLUENCE.

SO I THINK THIS IS JUST ONE OF THE MANY, MANY UNCERTAINTIES THAT THE ADMINISTRATION IS GOING TO BE DEALING WITH IN THE MONTHS AHEAD.

>> FINAL QUESTION, AND I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S ONE THAT YOU CAN ANSWER RIGHT NOW, BUT IN TERMS OF WHAT HAMAS WANTS AND WHAT THE U.S., WHAT MANY ISRAELIS, WHAT MANY IN THE REGION WANT AND THAT IS A PATH TOWARDS TWO-STATE SOLUTION WITH THE PALESTINIAN STATE AND ISRAELI STATE LIVING SAFELY SIDE BY SIDE, THAT'S DIVERGENT FROM WHAT HAMAS WANTS.

HAMAS DOES NOT WANT A TWO-STATE SOLUTION.

EVEN IN THE INTERIM WHEN YOU HAVE 136 HOSTAGES BEING HELD, IF YOU HAVE OTHERS PRESSING FOR A TWO-STATE SOLUTION RIGHT NOW AS A WAY TO END THIS WAR, HOW DOES HAMAS RESPOND TO THAT?

>> WELL, I THINK HAMAS WANTS A PALESTINIAN STATE, BUT THEY WANT IT TO BE AN ISLAMIC STATE AND THEY WANT TO REPLACE THE STATE OF ISRAEL.

THEY ARE NOT CAPABLE OF IMPLEMENTING AND PRODUCING THAT OUTCOME, BUT THEY ARE IN THE DIVIDED, POLARIZED DYSFUNCTIONAL WORLD OF PALESTINIAN POLITICS CAPABLE OF MAKING DECISIONS.

THEY ARE STILL LIKELY TO CARRY SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF INFLUENCE.

I DON'T THINK, FRANKLY, THAT ANYONE HAS A SOLUTION, BRIANNA, TO THE PROBLEMATIC CHALLENGE OF PALESTINIAN GOVERNMENTS.

THAT'S GOING TO BE KEY.

LET ME MAKE ONE FINAL POINT.

YOU'RE GOING TO BE DEALING WITH TWO INCREDIBLY TRAUMATIZED COMMUNITIES IN THE WAKE OF THIS WAR LED BY TWO INDIVIDUALS, BENJAMIN NETANYAHU ON ONE HAND AND MAHMOUD ABBAS ON THE OTHER WHO ARE MUCH MORE INTERESTED IN KEEPING THEIR SEATS RATHER THAN TAKING HISTORIC DECISIONS TO CREATE THE ENVIRONMENT FOR SUCH A NEGOTIATION THAT MIGHT PRODUCE THREE STATES.

SO IT'S GOING TO BE A LONG -- A VERY LONG AND BUMPY ROAD AND I THINK WE NEED TO KEEP OUR EXPERFECT TAGSS, PARTICULARLY IN AN ELECTION YEAR, NEED TO KEEP OUR EXPECTATIONS IN THIS ONE UNDER CONTROL.

>> SADLY EXPECTATIONS ARE ALREADY PRETTY LOW AT THIS POINT.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE JUST BEGGING FOR THESE HOSTAGES TO COME HOME AND FOR THE FIGHTING AND THE SUFFERING IN GAZA TO COME TO AN END AS WELL.

AARON DAVID MILLER, THANK YOU.

>>ING THANK YOU, BRIANNA.

>>> AT LEAST 17,000 CHILDREN IN GAZA ARE UNACCOMPANIED OR SEPARATED FROM THEIR PARENTS, THIS IS ACCORDING TO UNICEF.

IN CENTRAL GAZA THE MOTHER OF A 6-YEAR-OLD PALESTINIAN GIRL IS DESPERATE TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO HER.

SHE WAS TRAPPED IN A CAR ON MONDAY AFTER SHE AND OTHER MEMBERS OF THE FAMILY CAME UNDER ISRAELI FIRE.

JOMANA COR HAS THE STORY.

THIS MAY BE DISTURBING.

>> Reporter: A DESPERATE CALL FROM A 6-YEAR-OLD, TERRIFIED, TRAPPED IN A CAR.

EVERYONE AROUND HER IS DEAD.

SHE WAS IN THE CAR WITH HER UNCLE, HIS WIFE AND THEIR FOUR CHILDREN TRYING TO FLEE FIGHTING FROM THIS PART OF NORTHERN GAZA.

THE HORROR IN THAT CAR CAPTURED IN THIS CALL FOR HELP FROM HER COUSIN RECORDED BY THE PALESTINE RED CRESCENT.

>> Reporter: RELATIVES ON MONDAY MORNING RECEIVED A CALL FROM THE FAMILY SAYING THEY HAD COME UNDER ISRAELI MILITARY FIRE.

>> Translator: SHE CALLED ME.

SHE SAID, UNCLE, MY DAD, MY MOM, MY SISTER, WERE KILLED.

I'M BLEEDING.

HELP ME, I'M DIEING.

I TOLD HER, TIE YOURSELF WITH ANYTHING.

AT 4 P.M. SHE DIED.

THE ONLY ONE LEFT WAS THE LITTLE GIRL.

SHE SAID, PLEASE, I'M LITTLE.

I'M INJURED.

I PEED MYSELF.

>> Reporter: HE STAYED ON THE PHONE WITH THE RED CRESCENT FOR HOURS.

>> Translator: WHAT TIME IS IT?

SHE SAID, IT'S GETTING DARK.

I'M AFRAID OF THE DARK.

>> Reporter: THE AREA WAS TOO DANGEROUS, HARD TO REACH.

THEY HAD TO KEEP HIND ON THE PHONE AS THEY SCRAMBLED TO GET A TEAM TO HER.

AS THE TEAM WAS FINALLY DISPATCHED, A PSYCHOLOGIST WAS NOW ON THE PHONE WITH HER.

BUT DAYS LATER THEY'RE STILL WAITING.

THE RED CRESCENT LOST ALL CONTACT WITH HIND AND THE TWO VOLUNTEERS WHO WERE DISPATCHED TO FIND HER.

CNN GAVE ISRAELI MILITARY DETAILS INCLUDING COORDINATES.

THEY SAY WE ARE UNFAMILIAR WITH THE INCHES DOESN'T DESCRIBED.

>> WE ARE EXTREMELY WORRIED.

WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.

DID THEY MANAGE TO SAVE HER?

ARE THEY ARRESTED?

DID THEY SURVIVE?

WE NEED ANSWERS.

THE.

>> Reporter: NO ONE MORE DESPERATE FOR ANSWERS THAN HER DISTRAUGHT MOTHER.

>> Translator: IF MY DAUGHTER DIDN'T DIE FROM THE BULLETS, SHE'S GOING TO DIE FROM THE COLD, FROM THE HUNGER.

MY DAUGHTER SAID, MAMA, I AM HUNGRY.

SHE SAID, MAMA, I AM THIRSTY.

I AM COLD.

I CALL ON THE WHOLE WORLD TO BRING ME BACK MY DAUGHTER.

I WANT ANYONE TO CALL THE ARMY.

WE WANT OUR INNOCENT LITTLE GIRL.

HIND IS TOO YOUNG TO BE GOING THROUGH THIS.

SHE IS TOO YOUNG.

>> Reporter: SO MANY SO YOUNG GONE IN THIS WAR, BUT WHEN FAMILY HOLDS ONTO THE HOPE THAT IT'S NOT TOO LATE TO SAVE THEIR LITTLE HIND.

>> WE ALL HOPE THAT 6-YEAR-OLD HIND CAN BE FOUND SAFELY.

THANK YOU FOR THAT REPORT.

>>> WE WANT TO TURN NOW TO UKRAINE AND A BRAND-NEW EXCLUSIVE.

THE EMBATTLED ARMY CHIEF WRITING A LETTER THAT KYIV MUST ADAPT IF IT STANDS ANY HOPE IN SURVIVING.

PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY MAY BE POISED TO DISMISS HIM AFTER FOUR YEARS ON THE JOB.

THIS WHILE UKRAINE CLAIMS IT SUNK A RUSSIAN SHIP OFF THE COAST OF CRIMEA.

WE HAVE "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL'S" CHIEF FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT AND AUTHOR OF "OUR ENEMIES WILL BANISH."

WELCOME BACK FROM BRUSSELS.

THIS WHOLE WEEK I'VE BEEN CHASING YOU TO HAVE YOU ON BECAUSE THERE HAVE BEEN SO MANY DEVELOPMENTS IN THIS WAR AND YOU ARE THE PERFECT PERSON TO TALK TO ABOUT IT ALL.

FIRST, GET YOUR RESPONSE TO THIS RATHER STUNNING AND BLUNT ASSESSMENT OF THE STATE OF THE WAR FROM ITS TOP GENERAL BEFORE HE'S EXPECTED, WIDELY EXPECTED, TO BE REPLACED.

>> HE PAINTED A VERY REALISTIC PICTURE OF THE WAR.

HE SAID UKRAINE NEEDS TIME TO REGROUP AND UKRAINE NEEDS TO FOCUS ON SOME OF THE MOST DIFFICULT ISSUES SUCH AS REPLENISHING MANPOWER, AMMUNITION AND ALSO ON THE DRONE REVOLUTION.

THE USE OF DRONES THAT, ACCORDING TO HIM AND MANY OTHER OFFICIALS IN UKRAINE, ARE REALLY THE SECRET SAUCE FOR UKRAINIAN OPERATIONS.

PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY JUST TODAY HAD A MEETING OF THE UKRAINIAN HIGH COMMAND THAT REUNITES TOP GENERALS AND MINISTERS AND OTHER OFFICIALS AND HE HIMSELF WAS THERE AND AFFIRMED THE PRIORITIES, INCREASING THE AMMUNITION PRODUCTION IN UKRAINE AS WESTERN AID, ESPECIALLY AMERICAN AID SHRUNK AND ALSO FOCUSING ON DRONE AND DRONE PRODUCTION WHICH HAS BEEN A VERY POWERFUL WEAPON FOR THE UKRAINIAN MILITARY.

>> WE MUST ATTEND WITH THE MILITARY SUPPORT WITH KEY ALLIES.

HE GOES ON TO SAY, IT IS WELL KNOWN BY NOW THAT A CENTRAL DRIVER OF THIS WAR IS THE DEVELOPMENT OF UNMANNED WEAPONS SYSTEMS, DRONES BEING FRONT AND CENTER.

OBVIOUSLY MUCH MORE AFFORDABLE RELATIVE TO SOME OF THE LARGER ARMAMENTS IN A TRADITIONAL WAR AND MUCH MORE NIMBLE AS WELL.

HE ALSO FOCUSED ON TECHNOLOGY AND HE SAID, QUOTE, ATTACK OPERATIONS CAN HAVE PSYCHOLOGICAL OBJECTIVES.

HERE TECHNOLOGY BOASTS AN UNDOUBTED SUPERIORITY OVER TRADITION.

THE REMOTE CONTROL OF THESE ASSETS MEANS FEWER SOLDIERS IN HARM'S WAY THUS REDUCING THE LEVEL OF HUMAN LOSSES.

IS HE RIGHT TO FOCUS ON THIS GIVEN THE HUGE TOLL THIS WAR HAS TAKEN ON UKRAINIAN SOLDIERS?

IS THERE AN EFFECTIVE WAY TO SHIFT TO TECHNOLOGY TO LIMIT THE NUMBER OF LOSSES ON THE BATTLEFIELD?

>> I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT AND UKRAINE HAS SHOWN THAT IT CAN USE THIS TECHNOLOGY AND I'VE SPENT MUCH OF THE PAST TWO YEARS ON THE FRONT LINES AND I'VE SEEN MYSELF GOING WITH UKRAINE DRONE OPERATORS JUST HOW MUCH DAMAGE IT CAN INFLICT WITH THE RUSSIANS WITH THIS SOMETIMES VERY CHEAP DRONES, MANY OF THEM MADE IN UKRAINE BY UKRAINIAN COMPANIES.

DOING THAT FROM A DISTANCE THAT IS SAFE ENOUGH OFTEN TO PRESERVE THEIR OWN LIVES.

IT'S NOT JUST ARIELLE DR-- ARIA DRONES.

THERE WAS A SHIP SUNK BY NAVAL DRONE AND THERE IS ONE OTHER CRUCIAL POINT.

WESTERN WEAPONS GIVEN TO UKRAINE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BE USED ON RUSSIAN TERRITORY.

SO UKRAINE AS IT TRIES TO STRIKE RUSSIAN MILITARY FACILITIES INSIDE RUSSIA, OFTEN QUITE FAR AWAY ALL THE WAY TO ST. PETERSBURG IS USING ITS OWN DRONES TO DO THAT.

IT'S A CRITICAL WAY OF ESTABLISHING A DETERRENCE AGAINST RUSSIA WHICH HAS BEEN STRIKING ALL ACROSS UKRAINE.

>> SO THAT SPEAKS TO RUMORS OF THIS CHANGING OF THE GUARD HERE.

ON THE ONE HAND IT IS NOT COMPLETELY OUT OF THE ORDINARY TO SEE SOMETHING LIKE THIS, ESPECIALLY WHEN A WAR HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR AS LONG AS THIS WAR HAS, NOW APPROACHING TWO YEARS.

THAT SAID, WE KNOW THAT HE IS VERY POPULAR IN UKRAINE AND THERE IS SOME TENSION BETWEEN PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY AND ZELUSNY THAT'S BEEN OUT IN THE OPEN FOR MONTHS.

IN TERMS OF WHO COULD REPLACE HIM, TWO NAMES HAVE SURFACED.

THE DEFENSE INTELLIGENCE DIRECTOR.

ONE OF THE MEN, VERY YOUNG, WE SHOULD NOTE, WHO HAS BEEN QUITE SUCCESSFUL IN LAUNCHING SOME OF THESE OPERATIONS AND REALLY HOLDING RUSSIA ON ITS HEELS IN THE BLACK SEA AND EVEN LAUNCHING, AS YOU NOTED, SOME OF THESE ATTACKS DEEP INSIDE RUSSIA WHICH HAS RAISED SOME EYEBROWS IN THIS THE UNITED STATES.

THE OTHER NAME MORE TRADITIONAL, THE CURRENT COMMANDER OF UKRAINIAN GROUND FORCES.

FROM YOUR SOURCES AND WHAT YOU'RE HEARING, WHO DO YOU THINK IS MORE POSITIONED OR MORE LIKELY TO BE GETTING THIS JOB?

>> WELL, I'LL START OFF BY SAYING ZELUSNY IS VERY, VERY POPULAR IN THE RANKS.

WHENEVER I WOULD COME TO A TOWN OR VILLAGE LIBERATED BY UKRAINIAN FORCES, THE FIRST THING THAT WOULD HAPPEN, THEY WOULD STENCIL A PORTRAIT OF ZELUSNY ON THE WALLS, NOT A PORTRAIT OF PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY.

IT'S NOT CLEAR WHEN OR IF HE WILL BE REPLACED.

THERE WAS NO REFERENCE IN PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY'S STATEMENT TO HIS DISMISSAL.

I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE INSIDE THE MILITARY IN THE RANKS HAVE RESERVATIONS AGAINST GENERAL SIRSKY.

HE SEEMS ALL TOO WILLING TO SACRIFICE LIVES IN SOMETIMES VERY TRADITIONALLY PLANNED ATTACKS.

THE LIVES ARE THE MOST PRECIOUS AND REPLENISHABLE RESOURCE.

AS FOR THE OTHER, HE HAS CARRIED OUT RISKY OPERATIONS.

NOT ALL SUCCESSFUL.

IN THE BOOK THERE WAS A FAILED OPERATION TO RETAKE SNAKE ISLAND IN THE MIDDLE OF 2022 THAT LED TO SEVERE LOSSES AMONG UKRAINIAN TROOPS AND THAT WAS SORT OF HASHED UP AT THE TIME.

SO FOR NOW AT THE HEAD OF THE MILITARY, IT'S NOT CLEAR IF OR WHEN HE WILL BE REMOVED.

>> ROB LEE, MILITARY ANALYST WHO IS WELL REGARDED, SOMEBODY WHO YOU KNOW TWEETED THIS TODAY.

HE SAID, UKRAINE FACES TWO ACUTE ISSUES, LACK OF AMMUNITION AND LACK OF INFANTRY.

THE LONGER THEY ARE NOT ADDRESSED, THE MORE UKRAINIANS ARE DISADVANTAGED AND THE MORE THE DISADVANTAGE WILL GROW.

THEY SEEM TO BE HAND IN HAND.

THERE ARE CONFLICTING, I DON'T KNOW, ADVOCACIES FOR BOTH, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO MANPOWER BECAUSE IT IS GENERAL ZELUSNY WHO IS CALLING FOR MORE, WHEREAS PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY, UNDERSTANDABLY, AS THE PRESIDENT OF A COUNTRY KNOWS HOW UNPOPULAR THAT MAY BE.

BUT YOU COULD ALSO MAKE THE ARGUMENT, COULD YOU NOT, THAT WITHOUT MORE AMMUNITION, MORE ARTILLERY AMMUNITION, YOU ARE THROWING THESE MEN OUT TO FODDER AND THEY COULD BECOME CANNON FODDER LIKE IN RUSSIA.

HOW CRITICAL IS THE $60 BILLION IN AID FOR MORE AMMUNITION, MORE WEAPONRY FROM THE U.S. THAT IS STILL STUCK IN CONGRESS?

>> IT'S ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL.

IT'S NOT JUST THE ISSUE OF MONEY.

EUROPEAN UNION IS PROVIDING MONEY.

JUST YESTERDAY THE EUROPEAN UNION APPROVED 50 MILLION EUROS, ALMOST $60 MILLION.

THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH AMMUNITION.

THEY DON'T ALLOW THEM TO BUY AMMUNITION OUTSIDE OF THE U.S.

THE U.S. HAS THE CIRCULAR SHELLS AND STOCKPILES THAT COULD BE OF GREAT IMPORTANCE TO UKRAINIAN FORCES THAT ARE RIGHT NOW OUTGUNNED BECAUSE RUSSIA HAS BEEN PROCURING ABOUT A MILLION SHELLS FROM NORTH KOREA.

RUSSIA'S OWN MILITARY INDUSTRY IS WORKING DAY AND NIGHT AND RUSSIA ONCE AGAIN HAS THE DISADVANTAGE WHEN THIS COMES TO ARTILLERY WHICH RESULTS IN INCREASED UKRAINIAN CASUALTIES.

IT TAPS INTO THIS ISSUE OF MANPOWER FOR UKRAINE.

>> IT'S INTERESTING HOW WE GO FROM SAYING RUSSIA IS DEFEATED TO NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN RUSSIA IS IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT AT THIS POINT AND THAT THE ECONOMY'S EXPECTED TO GROW FASTER.

IT'S RELYING MORE ON DELIVERY OF AMMUNITION FROM NORTH KOREA THAT'S COMING IN QUICKER THAN EVEN SOME FROM THE WEST, BUT THAT HAVING BEEN SAID, IT'S NOT ALL DOOM AND GLOOM FOR UKRAINE EITHER.

RUSSIA STILL FACES A LOT OF HEADWINDS GOING INTO THIS YEAR.

>> LET'S LOOK AT THE MAP.

RUSSIA HAS BEEN ON THE OFFENSIVE FOR THE LAST LET'S SAY FEW MONTHS AT LEAST.

IT'S HAD THIS ADVANTAGE FOR THE LAST THREE MONTHS AND YET IT HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO GAIN ANY SIGNIFICANT GROUND.

NOT A SINGLE TOWN IN UKRAINE HAS FALLEN SO FAR AND THE UKRAINIAN TROOPS ARE FORMIDABLE IN THEIR RESISTANCE.

SO IT'S NOT GOING TO BE EASY FOR RUSSIA TO ADVANCE, BUT ANY DELAY IN THE SUPPLY OF AMMUNITION ESPECIALLY IS TRANSLATED DIRECTLY INTO HIGHER AND HIGHER UKRAINIAN CASUALTIES AND RUSSIA OBVIOUSLY HAS A LOT MORE PEOPLE TO BEGIN WITH AND IT'S MUCH EASIER FOR A REGIME LIKE VLADIMIR PUTINS TO KEEP THROWING MANPOWER ESSENTIALLY INTO THIS MEAT GRINDER THAT THIS HAS BECOME.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, AS ALWAYS, FOR YOUR TIME AND ANALYSIS.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> WE TURN NEXT TO THE WORLD OF SPORTS WHICH THIS WEEK CROWNED A NEW TENNIS CHAMPION IN 22-YEAR-OLD JANNIK SINNER AT THE AUSTRALIAN OPEN.

IT WAS THE FIRST MEN'S GRAND SLAM FINAL IN MELBOURNE SINCE 2005 NOT TO FEATURE RAPHAEL NADAL, NOVAK DJOKOVIC OR ROGER FEDERER.

THAT'S ALMOST TWO DECADES OF DOMINATION.

ON THIS DAY 20 YEARS PAG FEDERER BECAME WORLD NUMBER ONE FOR THE FIRST TIME.

HE STARTED HIS RECORD-BREAKING REIN WINNING 20 GRAND SLAMS AND HE WAS ONE OF THE GREATEST PLAYERS OF ALL TIME BEFORE RETIRING IN 2022.

CHRISTIAN INTERVIEWED FEDERER DURING THE 2015 WIMBLEDON TOURNAMENT AND ASKED HIM HOW HE MANAGED TO STAY ON TOP OF HIS GAME SO LONG.

>> WELCOME TO OUR PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> DO YOU HAVE ANOTHER GRAND SLAM TITLE IN YOU?

>> I THINK SO.

I GAME CLOSE LAST YEAR FIVE SETS AGAINST NOVAK, SEMIS AT THE U.S. OPEN.

I KNOW I CAN DO IT AND SOME GUYS ARE PLAYING WELL IN SOME MOMENTS.

THAT'S WHERE I ALSO HAVE TO ELEVATE MY GAME AND PLAY MY VERY BEST.

ANYTHING OTHER THAN NOT PLAYING YOUR BEST AGAINST THE BEST WHEN THEY ARE HOT IS NOT GOING TO DO IT.

>> WHO HAS BEEN YOUR TOUGHEST OPPONENT EVER?

>> PROBABLY NADAL JUST BECAUSE OF HIS PLAYING STYLE, THAT HE'S A LEFTY AS WELL HAS MADE THINGS MORE COMPLICATED.

PLUS WE'VE HAD A LOT OF MATCHES ON CLAY WHERE HE'S -- YOU KNOW, HE REINS SUPREME.

HE'S THE BEST EVER ON CLAY HANDS DOWN.

SO HE'S BEEN -- HE'S BEEN THE TOUGHEST BUT PROBABLY THE MOST CHALLENGING AND MOST FUN TO PLAY AGAINST BECAUSE OF HIS CHARACTER.

HE'S BEEN UNBELIEVABLE IN GAMES.

I'VE LOVED THAT RIVALRY.

>> NEW GENERATION AND YOU'RE STILL GOING.

33 YEARS OLD.

THEY MIGHT CALL YOU THE OLD MAN OF THE TOUR.

>> OKAY.

>> YOU'RE STILL PROVING THAT YOU CAN DO IT.

HOW DO YOU STILL DO IT?

YOU KNOW, NOT JUST YOUR SKILL BUT THE DISCIPLINE, THE FITNESS, THE FACT THAT RAFA HAS BEEN, YOU KNOW, INJURED SEVERAL TIMES.

>> RIGHT.

>> YOU'VE MANAGED SOMEHOW TO PLAY IN A WAY THAT'S ALLOWED YOU TO KEEP PLAYING THIS LONG.

>> YEAH.

I MEAN -- I MEAN, I DEFINITELY THINK I'VE BEEN LUCKY AS WELL TO STAY INJURY FREE.

YOU CAN ALWAYS GET UNLUCKY AND BREAK SOMETHING, TEAR SOMETHING AND THAT JUST GOES WITH -- JUST HAPPENS, YOU KNOW?

SO FOR ME I'VE NEVER HAD TO HAVE SURGERY.

I'VE NEVER HAD TO HAVE AN INJECTION.

PAINKILLERS, FINE, I'VE HAD TO DO THAT.

OTHER THAN THAT, IT'S BEEN VERY MUCH FOCUSED ON HEALTHY LIFESTYLE, ENJOYING THE TRAVELING, THE PRACTICE, THE MATCHES.

HAVING THE RIGHT TEAM AROUND YOURSELF.

MY WIFE'S OBVIOUSLY BEEN THE ROCK BEHIND IT ALL.

SHE'S BEEN WITH ME THROUGHOUT MY FIRST TITLE THROUGH TOWED.

SHE'S BEEN INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT.

LOOKING AT ALL OF THESE THINGS.

I'VE PROBABLY MADE A LOT OF RIGHT DECISIONS ALONG THE WAY.

>> YOUR WIFE YOU MET IN THE SYDNEY OLYMPICS.

SHE HAD TO RETIRE BECAUSE OF INJURY.

>> EXACTLY.

>> YOU HAVE HER ON THE TEAM AND TWO SETS OF TWINS BASICALLY ON YOUR TEAM AND TRAVELING WITH YOU.

IS IT GOOD FOR THE -- FOR YOUR PSYCHE?

DOES IT DISTRACT YOU?

DOES IT SUSTAIN YOU?

>> I MEAN, I WOULD BE UNHAPPY ON THE TOUR WITHOUT THEM.

THEN I WOULD RETIRE.

SO FOR ME IT ONLY WORKS THIS WAY.

AND I'M TOTALLY HAPPY ALSO NOT TO PLAY ANYMORE, BUT I PREFER IT THIS WAY.

AS LONG AS MY WIFE IN PARTICULAR AND ALSO THE KIDS CAN MANAGE IT AND ACTUALLY ENJOY IT, BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE SOMETHING WE ENJOY DOING, IT ALLOWS ME TO KEEP PLAYING.

MY WIFE IS SO HAPPY AND EAGER FOR ME TO BE HAPPY AND SUCCESSFUL STILL ON THE TOUR, AND MY GIRLS, YOU KNOW, WHO UNDERSTAND IT ALL NOW A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE THEY'RE TURNING 6 THIS YEAR, THEY LOVE TRAVELING TO ALL OF THESE PLACES NOW THAT THEY GOT TO KNOW.

IT'S THE ONLY LIFE THEY KNOW ON THE TOUR.

THEY'VE GOTTEN TO HAVE SO MANY FRIENDS EVERYWHERE.

IT'S UNBELIEVABLY EXCITING.

IT'S GOOD FOR MY MIND WHEN I COME BACK FROM A MATCH AND I'VE LOST AND THEY'RE THERE, THEY DON'T CARE IF YOU'VE WON OR YOU'VE LOST.

IT'S GREAT.

I DON'T NEED IT AS A BALANCE.

I'M A VERY RELAXED PERSON ON AND OFF THE COURT.

CLEARLY IT'S A DREAM TO COME TRUE TO HAVE FOUR KIDS.

>> YOU SEEM TO HAVE THIS EQUANIMITY.

LOSING DOESN'T PUT YOU INTO A VORTEX OF DESPAIR.

ANDY MURRAY'S MOTHER BEEN QUOTED AS SAYING WHEN HE LOST TO YOU IN 2012, HE WAS DESPERATE, SAD, WEEPING FOR DAYS.

IT AFFECTS SOME PEOPLE BUT IT DOESN'T SEEM TO AFFECT YOU.

>> NOT SO MUCH.

I AGREE, I THINK I USED TO BE SO EMOTIONAL WHEN I WAS YOUNGER THAT I LEARNED FROM THAT.

I CRIED TOO OFTEN WHEN I WAS YOUNGER ALL THE WAY FROM I'D SAY 8 TO ABOUT 20.

I WAS UNBELIEVABLY EMOTIONAL YEARS.

EVERY TIME I LOST I WOULD CRY.

EVEN AS A PRO, SOME ON COURT.

I COULDN'T MANAGE TO GET OFF THE COURT AND BREAK DOWN WHICH WAS BETTER.

EVENTUALLY I GOT MY ACT TOGETHER AND NOW I TAKE IT LIKE A MAN AND FIVE MINUTES LATER I'M FINE AGAIN.

OF COURSE I'M ALSO DISAPPOINTED THAT I HAVE TO WAIT A YEAR UNTIL WIMBLEDON ROLLS AROUND OR UNTIL THE NEXT OLYMPIC ROLLS AROUND, IT TAKES FOUR YEARS, IT GOES WITH THE TERRITORY.

YOU CAN'T WIN THEM ALL.

WHAT YOU CAN DO IS GIVE IT ALL YOU HAVE.

ONCE YOU HAVE NO REGRETS, YOU CAN ACCEPT LOSSES A LITTLE BIT EASIER.

>> I'M FASCINATED BY WHAT YOU SAID BECAUSE SO MANY CHILDREN SEEM TO BE SO PRESSURED, WEEPING ON COURT, HAVING TEMPERS, WHATEVER.

YOU SAY YOU HAD A BIT OF THAT.

>>S YEAH, I DID HAVE THAT.

>> YOU HAD PARENTS WHO DIDN'T PUSH YOU TO EXCESS.

>> NO.

THE THING IS I THINK WE WERE VERY REALISTIC ABOUT MY CHANCES.

WE DIDN'T BELIEVE THAT I WAS GOING TO BE A SUCCESSFUL TENNIS PLAYER.

MAYBE A SUCCESSFUL JUNIOR PLAYER BUT NOT INTERNATIONALLY AT WIMBLEDON TO WIN.

MY PARENTS WERE VERY MUCH STRICT IN THE SENSE THAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE A PRIVILEGE TO GO TO PRACTICE AND TO GO TO MATCHES ON THE WEEKENDS SO PLEASE PUT IN YOUR BEST EFFORT.

JUST LIKE FOR US BECAUSE IT DOES COST MONEY AND IT'S OUR TIME, OTHERWISE YOU'D RATHER SPEND IT WITH YOUR SISTER, YOUR FRIENDS, YOU DO THINGS AT HOME AND AROUND THE HOUSE.

I GOT THAT MESSAGE EVENTUALLY AND I UNDERSTAND VERY CLEARLY WHAT SHE MEANT BECAUSE I HAVE KIDS OF MY OWN NOW AND OF COURSE WHEN YOU PUT IN THE EFFORT, YOU AT LEAST WOULD LIKE YOUR KIDS TO GIVE THE BEST NOW.

>> BILLIE JEAN KING, OBVIOUSLY THE GREATEST CHAMPION AND HUGE WIMBLEDON RECORD HOLDER, SHE HAS LIKENED YOU TO BA RRISHNEKOV.

THEY HUNG UP THEIR BALLET SHOES.

DO YOU THINK ABOUT HANGING UP THE TENNIS SHOES OR RACKET?

>> OH, YEAH.

HOPEFULLY NOT SOON.

YOU HAVE TO SAY IT'S BEEN GREAT BUT LET'S DO OTHER THINGS IN LIFE AS WELL BECAUSE IT'S ONLY A SHORT SPAN OF YOUR LIFE.

LET'S MAKE THE MOST OF IT.

THEN I HOPE I STILL PLAY FOR FUN WITH MY FRIENDS, WITH MY KIDS, WITH MY WIFE IN THE FUTURE.

SO I'LL NEVER PROBABLY REALLY RETIRE, BUT A DAY WILL COME AND I'LL BE TOTALLY HAPPY PROBABLY DOING THAT AS WELL.

>> IS IT STILL SNUN.

>> I DON'T SEE IT AS A JOB REALLY.

I STILL SEE IT AS MY HOBBY THAT BECAME THIS DREAM LAND I CAN MOVE ABOUT.

LIKE I EXPLAINED, FOR ME IT WAS NEVER -- I NEVER DREAMED THIS FAR IN MY DREAMS TO BE THIS PROFESSIONAL TENNIS PLAYER SO OF COURSE GOING TO THE GYM AND GOING TO WORK OUT, YEAH, I WOULD RATHER DO OTHER THINGS AT TIMES, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY I KNOW WHY I'M DOING IT, BECAUSE I LOVE PLAYING ON CENTRE COURT.

I LOVE TRAVELING THE WORLD.

AND, YEAH, I MAKE A LOT OF SACRIFICE TO MAKE IT ALL WORK.

I LOVE DOING WHAT I'M DOING SO I NEVER SAW IT AS A JOB PER SE TO BE HONEST.

>> ROGER FEDERRER, THANK YOU VERY MUCH INDEED.

>> THANK YOU.

>> PROOF THAT EVEN THE GREAT ROGER FEDERER IS MORTAL.

HE SUFFERED KNEE DAMAGE THAT LED TO HIS RETIREMENT ULTIMATELY IN 2022.

WITH MORE THAN 1500 MATCHES PLAYED IN 24 YEARS, ROGER FEDERER'S TENNIS LEGACY WILL LIVE ON FOREVER.

TO THINK HE DID IT JUST FOR FUN.

>>> WE TURN NOW TO AMERICAN POLITICS WHERE OUR NEXT GUEST WAS DRAWN TO THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT AS A COLLEGE STUDENT.

AFTER INTERNSHIPS AND JOBS THAT CENTERED AROUND RIGHT WING TALKING POINTS, SHE LEFT THAT WORLD BEHIND.

TINA NGUYEN HAS A NEW BOOK "THE MAGA DIARIES."

>> THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOUR BOOK IS CALLED "THE MAGA DIARIES, MY SURREAL ADVENTURES INSIDE THE RIGHT WING AND HOW I GOT OUT."

FIRST, HOW DO YOU BECOME A MAGA PERSON?

BECAUSE AS MOST OF US ARE PRONE TO STEREOTYPES, THIS DOESN'T LOOK LIKE YOUR TRADITIONAL HARD CORE TRUMP CONSERVATIVE.

>> OH, ABSOLUTELY NOT.

JUST LOOK AT ME.

I'M A WOMAN OF COLOR WITH REFUGEE PARENTS WHO GREW UP IN BOSTON?

IT SHOULD MAKE NO SENSE.

BUT FOR ME, MY JOURNEY INTO CONSERVATIVE WORLD AS IT WERE CAME FROM TWO FACTORS, WHICH WAS, ONE, MY PARENTS MAY HAVE BEEN INTELLIGENT AND THEY MAY HAVE SOMEHOW GOT ME TO A PRIVATE SCHOOL AND A SCHOLARSHIP, BUT THEY DID NOT KNOW HOW AMERICAN SOCIETY WORKS AND THEY DID NOT KNOW HOW TO GET JOBS, THEY DID NOT KNOW HOW TO BUILD CONNECTIONS.

IT WAS JUST A TOTALLY FOREIGN SYSTEM FOR THEM.

AND THE SECOND FACTOR WAS THAT I WAS A BIG GEEK ABOUT THE FOUNDING FATHERS.

LIKE YOU GROW UP IN BOSTON, YOU'RE SURROUNDED BY THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR IN EVERY CORNER.

YOU'RE IMBUED WITH THE IDEALS OF THE AMERICAN FOUNDING.

THE MOMENT I COME ACROSS THIS SCHOOL THAT IS, ONE, VERY CAREER ORIENTED AND, TWO, LITERALLY HAS THESE RESEARCH INSTITUTIONS THAT ARE STUDYING THE FOUNDING FATHERS AND INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM AND THE IDEAS OF LIBERTY, YOU'RE JUST KIND OF LIKE, OH, OKAY.

YEAH.

MENT LET'S DO THIS.

AND THEN THERE IS A COMMUNITY THAT YOU GO INTO.

AND THAT WAS MY ENTRANCE INTO THE BROADER CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT, WHICH IS THIS VAST I GUESS LOOSELY CONNECTED NETWORK OF INTEREST GROUPS, ACTIVIST GROUPS, POLITICIANS WHO ALL ARE PART OF THIS CULTURAL -- NOT LIKE CULTURAL CONSERVATISM BUT A CULTURE OF BEING CONSERVATIVE FOR A LIVING.

THE GOAL IS TO GET CONSERVATIVES INTO ALL ASPECTS OF AMERICAN CIVIC LIFE.

THE LAW.

THE ELECTED SYSTEM.

ACTIVISTS ON THE GROUND.

MAYBE PEOPLE IN THE ADMINISTRATION, LOBBYISTS, WHAT HAVE YOU.

AND SEE THESE IDEAS INTO LEGISLATION, INTO CULTURE AND THEN WATCH THEM PAY OFF MAYBE DECADES DOWN THE ROAD.

>> NOW IT DOES READ A BIT LIKE A DIARY.

YOU START OUT HOW YOU KIND OF WENT TO THE COLLEGE THAT YOU WENT TO, SORT OF CHASING A BOY THAT WAS A CONSERVATIVE.

HOW DID KIND OF WHAT YOU EXPERIENCED IN COLLEGE TRANSLATE INTO THE FIRST FEW JOBS YOU GOT WRITING FOR THE PUBLICATIONS THAT YOU WERE WRITING, COVERING THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT?

>> I WANTED TO BE A JOURNALIST PRETTY BADLY.

I WAS LOOKING FOR INTERNSHIPS IN THE SUMMER OF 2009, RIGHT?

IN THE HEIGHT OF THE RECESSION.

AND THIS OPPORTUNITY POPS UP IN OUR CONSERVATIVE JOBS EMAIL LIST AT THE INSTITUTE OF HUMANE STUDIES WHERE THEY'RE LOOKING FOR STUDENTS WHO WANT A PAID INTERNSHIP IN JOURNALISM AS LONG AS THEY'RE LIBERTY MINDED, WHICH WAS THE EXACT PHRASE THEY USED.

I APPLIED FOR IT.

I GOT IT.

HERE'S YOUR MONEY.

YOU HAVE TO COME TO THESE SEMINARS WHERE YOU GET TO HANG OUT WITH ALL OF THESE OTHER STUDENTS AND YOU GET TO TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT IS LIKE ANTI-FREE MARKET.

I DON'T KNOW WHY THE MEDIA IS NOT TALKING ABOUT THAT.

WHEN SEPTEMBER ROLLS AROUND I GET INVITED TO THE OFFICIAL MENTORSHIP PROGRAM.

THE GUY WHO RUNS IT SAID I AM GOING TO BE YOUR MENTOR.

I AM GOING TO GET YOU JOBS, HELP YOU WRITE YOUR RESUME, CONNECT YOU WITH PEOPLE AND AS I LEFT COLLEGE THOUGH I STARTED NOTICING THAT THIS MENTOR WAS CONNECTING ME WITH GROUPS THAT WERE INCREASINGLY LESS FOCUSED ON JOURNALISM AND MORE FOCUSED ON PUTTING OUT NEWS THAT HAD A REALLY INTENSE PARTISAN TILT TO THE POINT WHERE THEY JUST DECONTEXTUALIZED WHAT IT IS THEY WANTED ME TO WRITE FOR THE SAKE OF MAKING A POLITICAL POINT.

>> YOU KNOW, THIS COULD HAVE BEEN A BOOK ABOUT SOMEONE THAT WAS YOUNG GETTING INTO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND FINDING HER CONSERVATIVE ROOTS, BUT WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN I GUESS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY OF 25 YEARS AGO AND SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT YOU TALKED TO AND INTERACT WITH IN THE BOOK WHO ARE FROM THAT ERA AND THE MAGA MOVEMENT SPECIFICALLY?

>> THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT DID NOT HAVE AN IMMUNE SYSTEM AGAINST POPULISM, I THINK.

THEY HAD THIS LARGE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT HAS SPAWNED FROM THE MOVEMENT, BUT THEY WERE PRETTY FIRMLY OF THE BELIEF THAT THEY SUPPORTED FREE MARKETS, RELIGIOUS RIGHTS, ANTI-ABORTION BUT THAT THE REPUBLICAN VOTER BASE WANTED THE SAME AS WELL.

AND THEN THE MOMENT THAT DONALD TRUMP COMES IN AND THE BASE IS LIKE ACTUALLY WE WOULD LIKE POPULISM VERY MUCH.

THE MOVEMENT WAS LIKE, ALL RIGHT, DO WE STICK TO OUR GUNS AND TRY TO PROMOTE A BELIEF THAT IS INCREASINGLY UNPOPULAR?

OR DO WE PIVOT TO MEET THESE VOTERS WHERE THEY ARE?

WE PIVOT TRUMP TO -- TRUMP TO WHERE HE IS BECAUSE HE'S THE LEADER OF OUR PARTY AND THE FREE WORLD IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN NOT JUST OUR POWER OR OUR MONEY CYNICALLY BUT THE REASON WE'VE DONE WHAT WE'VE DONE FOR 25 TO 30 YEARS.

ONE OF THE THINGS I KEEP NOTICING IN THE BOOK OVER AND OVER AGAIN WAS THAT PEOPLE WHO LEFT IN RESPONSE TO TRUMPISM WERE IMMEDIATELY JUST APT.

THEY -- LIKE THEIR FRIENDS DISAVOWED THEM.

THEIR COLLEAGUES -- THEIR INSTITUTIONS FIRED THEM.

THEY NO LONGER HAD JOBS AND I WAS LOOKING AT THE PROGRESSIVE MOVEMENT FOR A WHILE AND I WAS LIKE, THIS DOESN'T REALLY HAPPEN OVER HERE.

THAT'S SO WEIRD.

>> SO WHAT IS IT ABOUT SORT OF TRUMP'S FORCE, SINGULARLY, THAT WAS ABLE TO GALL VANNIZE NOT JUST DISAFFECTED VOTERS IN THE RUST BELT BUT YOUNG CONSERVATIVES AS WELL?

I MEAN, YOU TALK ABOUT THE PLACES THAT WERE LOOKING FOR A LEADER LIKE HIM.

>> COLLEGE CONSERVATISM IS ALWAYS PREDICATED ON THE BELIEF THAT THERE IS LIBERAL INSTITUTIONS ON CAMPUS, LIBERAL ACADEMIA TRYING TO PUSH A CERTAIN VIEW OF THE WORLD DOWN YOUR THROAT AND YOU NEED TO RESIST IT AGAINST THAT INDOCTRINATION, AND THAT'S ONLY INCREASED IN SUBSEQUENT YEARS, ESPECIALLY DUE TO THE RISE IN ONLINE MEDIA, BEING ABLE TO LIKE OUT YOU IF YOU STEP OUTSIDE THE LINE OF WHAT IS CONSIDERED ACCEPTABLE ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES.

EVEN THOUGH THERE ARE LOUD PROTESTS ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES, LIKE ISRAEL VERSUS GAZA, THE REALLY DEEP TENSION THAT COLLEGE STUDENTS FACE IS IF I SAY SOMETHING OUT LOUD, WILL I BE CANCELED AND OSTRACIZED?

WILL PEOPLE SORT OF LITERALLY THROW EGGS AT MY FACE WHENEVER THEY SEE ME?

JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT APPROACHING YOUR VIEWS AND ROLLING AROUND WITHOUT A MAGA HAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU WON'T PULL THE LEVER FOR TRUMP.

>> RIGHT NOW IN EVERY POLITICAL CONVERSATION OR DEBATE WHAT YOU NOTICE VERY QUICKLY IS THAT THE RIGHT IS MUCH BETTER THAN THE LEFT WHEN IT COMES TO MESSAGING MARCHING ORDERS, SINGING FROM THE SAME HYMNAL OR WHATEVER YOU CALL IT.

CAN YOU DIAGRAM HOW THAT WORKS?

>> IT'S PURELY REACTIONARY.

CONSERVATISM AS JUST A GENERAL AMERICAN PHILOSOPHY AND IDEA, ONE OF THE TEXTS THAT THEY ALWAYS DRAW FROM IS EDMUND BURKE, PHILOSOPHER FROM THE LATE 1800s.

MOST OF HIS WRITING FOCUSED ON THE CONCEPT THAT SOCIETY IF IT MOVES FORWARD TOO QUICKLY WILL LEAD TO RUIN, BUT FAST FORWARD TO NOW.

THE IDEA THAT THEY HAVE MARCHING ORDERS FROM ONE PERSON I THINK IS FALSE.

I THINK WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT THERE'S A DEEP SEEDED FEAR OF WHAT CHANGE LOOKS LIKE AND IT'S AUTOMATICALLY VERY EASY, IF NOT INSTINCTUAL, TO BE LIKE, NO, WE DON'T LIKE THAT.

NO, THIS IS BAD.

NO, WE WILL DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO STOP THAT.

THAT'S NOT HARD TO COORDINATE.

THAT'S INCREDIBLY EASY TO JUST GET ON THE SAME PAGE.

>> HOW DOES THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT OR MAGA MOVEMENT IN AMERICA FIND THEMSELVES IN ANY WAY VICTIMS WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF POWER THAT EXISTS, FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE SUPREME COURT OR LOTS OF OTHER AVENUES OF SOCIETY WHERE IT'S AT BEST 50/50?

>> LOOK, JUST BECAUSE THEY HAVE FORMAL POWER DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THAT THEY HAVE ABSOLUTE POWER.

THE SUPREME COURT, EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE CONTROL OVER THE SUPREME COURT, DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THEY KNOW EXACTLY HOW THESE JUSTICES ARE GOING TO BE VOTING.

A BUNCH OF THE RIGHT WING JUDGES ARE NOT NECESSARILY CONSERVATIVE OR MAGA JUSTICES.

CLARENCE THOMAS, I THINK, IS SORT OF HIS OWN WEIRD LITTLE THING.

ROBERTS IS KIND OF INDEPENDENT FROM ALL OF THAT.

THE -- AND THEN OF COURSE THERE'S THE EXISTENCE OF THE LIBERAL JUDGES.

SO THEY HAVE SEATS.

THEY DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE CONTROL.

ONE OF THE THINGS I'VE WRITTEN ABOUT RECENTLY AT PUCK IS THE IDEA THAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS BEING BUILT AND LIKE WAITING SO THEY CAN SPECIFICALLY GO IN ON DAY ONE AND KNOCK OUT EVERYONE WHO HAD OPPOSED THE TRUMP AGENDA DURING THE FIRST ADMINISTRATION PURGING, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, THE DEEP STATE THAT HAD WORKED TO EITHER STOP WHAT THEY WERE TRYING TO DO, OR ROLL IT BACK, OR WHATEVER STOOD IN THE WAY.

>> WHEN DID YOU FEEL LIKE YOU WERE PERHAPS OUT OF STEP WITH THE MOVEMENT OR WHEN DID YOU FIND YOUR BELIEVES CHANGING?

>> THE COVENANT THAT THEY BROKE WITH ME WAS THAT THEY SAID I COULD BE A JOURNALIST AND THEN WHEN I TRIED TO BE A JOURNALIST THEY WERE LIKE, NO, YOU CAN'T DO THAT BECAUSE WE NEED TO ATTACK THE DEMOCRATS.

AND THAT WAS JUST SUCH A VIOLATION FOR ME PERSONALLY.

I STILL REALLY LIKE THE FOUNDING FATHERS.

I STILL BELIEVE IN THE AMERICAN IDEAL.

I WORRY THAT WE'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO ACHIEVE IT BECAUSE WE'RE HUMANS, BUT THE IDEA THAT THIS INSTITUTION WAS ASKING ME TO DELIBERATELY LIKE DECONTEXTUALIZE THE TRUTH OR TAKE AN ANGLE OR IN SOME CASES OUTRIGHT LIE UNDER THE GUISE OF BEING A JOURNALIST WAS JUST LIKE I CAN'T DO THIS, I JUST CANNOT.

THERE WAS ONE POINT IN DECEMBER 2011, AND I WRITE ABOUT THIS, THAT I'M ON MY SECOND JOB INTERVIEW AND THERE'S THIS GROUP CALLED THE FRANKLIN INSTITUTE LOOKING FOR A STRINGER IN MADISON, WISCONSIN.

THAT'S COOL.

I'D LOVE TO REPORT OUT OF WISCONSIN.

THEN THEY STARTED ASKING ME TO SPECIFICALLY MUCK RAKE ON TEACHERS' UNIONS.

THIS IS AROUND THE TIME THAT SCOTT WALKER AND THE TEACHERS' UNIONS ARE HAVING A MASSIVE BATTLE.

I'M LIKE, WAIT.

WAIT A SECOND.

NO.

NO.

THIS IS BAD.

I CAN'T DO THIS.

>> THE IRONY IS IS THAT THESE ARE SOME OF THE VERY CRITIQUES THAT CONSERVATIVES HURL AGAINST WHAT THEY RECEIVE AS LIBERAL MEDIA BIAS, THAT REPORTERS AUTOMATICALLY HAVE AN AXE TO GRIND, THEY'RE OUT TO MUCK RAKE OR DECONTEXTUALIZE THE TRUTH.

>> I THINK THERE'S A DIFFERENCE, THIS IS JUST FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, LIKE GROWING UP WITH A SPECIFIC VIEW OF THE WORLD, GOING THROUGH SPECIFIC JOURNALISTIC INSTITUTIONS IN ORDER TO GET CREDENTIALED, SLIP THROUGH THE DOOR AND BECOME A "NEW YORK TIMES" REPORTER, FOR INSTANCE, THAN THERE IS BEING PART OF A FORMAL WELL-FUNDED MOVEMENT THAT IS MEANT TO SPECIFICALLY INSERT CONSERVATIVE IDEAS INTO THE MEDIA.

IN THIS -- IN MY CASE UNDER THE GUISE OF BEING A JOURNALIST.

LIKE I THINK THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BEING CONSERVATIVE MEDIA REPORTERS WHOLE SEPARATE ISSUE IN AND OF ITSELF BUT THEN BEING ASKED TO TWIST THE TRUTH WHILE BEING A JOURNALIST.

>> YOU WERE WRITING AT POLITICO.

I WANT TO READ THE HEADLINE FOR YOUR PIECE.

IT SAID, MAGA LEADERS CALL FOR THE TROOPS TO KEEP TRUMP IN OFFICE.

A GROWING CALL TO INVOKE THE INSURRECTION ACT SHOWS HOW FAR EDGED MAGA IDEOLOGY HAS BECOME IN THE WAKE OF TRUMP'S ELECTION LOSS.

WHAT WERE YOUR EDITORS THINKING AFTER JANUARY 6th?

>> JANUARY 6th WAS JUST A HARD THING FOR PEOPLE TO WRAP THEIR HEADS AROUND, BUT I HAD BEEN PITCHING SO OFTEN THE STORIES OF HERE ARE THESE MAGA PEOPLE COMING INTO WASHINGTON.

THEY ARE WILLING TO USE VIOLENCE.

THEY HAVE VIOLENT IDEOLOGY IN THEIR BACK POCKET.

THEY TRULY BELIEVE IF THE GOVERNMENT IS BEING TAKEN OVER THEY HAVE THE RIGHT AS SOVEREIGN CITIZENS TO TAKE UP ARMS, AND I THINK OVER TIME THERE'S THIS REALLY WEIRD TENSION BETWEEN THEM BEING LIKE, OKAY, YOU WERE RIGHT, BUT ALSO EDITORS HAVING THIS INABILITY TO RECOGNIZE, WAIT, NO, WHAT YOU'RE REPORTING ON IS STILL TRUE.

IT'S STILL SO FAR OUTSIDE OF WHAT WE BELIEVE TO BE TRUE THAT WE JUST CAN'T ACCEPT IT.

THE THAT PIECE I WROTE WAS SORT OF THE PRECURSOR TO THE PIECE I PITCHED FOR JANUARY 6th WHICH WAS I WANT TO REPORT ON PEOPLE WHO HAVE GONE TO THE CAPITOL TO TRY TO HARASS LAWMAKERS AS THEY ENTER THE BUILDING, AND WHEN I GOT THERE THIS WASN'T SO MUCH A CROWD THAT REALLY WAS LIKE WHIPPED UP INTO A FRENZY SO MUCH AS IT WAS A CROWD THAT DID TRULY BELIEVE THAT THE CAPITOL BELONGED TO THEM AND THAT THEY SHOULD BE LET THROUGH THE BARRIERS IN ORDER TO TELL THE LAWMAKERS TO THEIR FACE WHAT TO DO.

A LITTLE BIT NERVE RACKING.

A LITTLE BIT SCARY, BUT I WAS LIKE, ALL RIGHT, THIS MAKES SENSE.

THEN I MET A PROUD BOY FOR THE FIRST TIME AND HE JUST KIND OF STARTED HINTING, WE'VE GOT A PLAN.

WE'VE GOT A TOTALLY COOL PLAN.

>> DO YOU SEE ANY BLIND SPOTS HEADING INTO 2024 SIMILAR TO THE BLIND SPOTS YOU DISCUSS IN THE BOOK ABOUT MAYBE HOW THE PRESS DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT WAS HAPPENING WITH THE TRUMP MOVEMENT THE FIRST TIME AROUND?

ARE THERE THINGS THAT WE'RE STILL NOT GETTING?

>> I THINK IT SEEMS TO BE HARD FOR PEOPLE TO WRAP THEIR HEADS AROUND THE IDEA THAT MINORITIES COULD BE PRO TRUMP.

VIETNAMESE AMERICANS ARE EXTREMELY PRO TRUMP.

I THINK A MAJORITY OF THEM DO VOTE FOR TRUMP, BUT THE GROWTH IN HISPANIC VOTERS GOING FOR TRUMP, ASIAN-AMERICANS, POSSIBLY MORE BLACK VOTERS THIS TIME AROUND TO A SURPRISING DEGREE.

AND IT DOES COME FROM A PLACE WHERE THEY JUST CANNOT SIMPLY ACCEPT THAT RACISM DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN OH, I'M LOOKING AT THE COLOR OF YOUR SKIN AND YOUR BACKGROUND, YOU DON'T BELONG HERE, WHATEVER.

IT IS THE IDEA THAT SOMEONE'S PUTTING THEIR SCALE ON THE THUMB OF WHO GETS POWER, WHO GETS JOBS, WHO GETS ACCESS AND TILTING IT TOWARDS UNDER SERVED, UNDESERVING MINORITIES.

IF YOU WERE TO GO TO A WORKING CLASS, MIDDLE CLASS -- CAN I BE UPPER MIDDLE CLASS HOUSEHOLD?

OF A NON-WHITE AMERICAN, MAYBE LIKE SOCIALISM REALLY SCARY.

A LOT OF US ESCAPED SOCIALIST COUNTRIES AND OUR ENTIRE LIVELIHOODS AND LIVES WERE DESTROYED IN THE NAME OF SOCIALISM.

PEOPLE ARE COMING ACROSS THE BORDER.

WE WENT AROUND THIS THE PROPER WAY.

HOW DARE BIDEN BRING THEM IN AND WE HAD TO JUMP THROUGH HOOPS IN ORDER TO PROVE WE WERE GOOD AMERICAN CITIZENS.

THEY LOVE BEING IN AMERICA.

THE IDEA THAT LIKE SOMEONE COULD TAKE AWAY THAT STABILITY FOR THEM IS LIKE DEEPLY TRAUMATIZING.

>> THE BOOK IS CALLED "THE MAGA DIARIES, MY SURREAL ADVENTURES INSIDE THE RIGHT WING AND HOW I GOT OUT."

TINA NGUYEN, THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>>> FINALLY, A STORY THAT'S HAD US ALL IN A FLAP OF SORTS.

THE RELEASE OF A BIRD OF INTEREST IN INDIA AFTER AN EIGHT-MONTH DETENTION.

NOW THIS PIGEON SUSPECTED OF ESPIONAGE, YES, ESPIONAGE WAS FREED THIS WEEK AFTER RINGS THAT APPEARED TO HAVE CHINESE WRITING ON THEM WERE TIED TO ITS LEGS IN MAY.

TURNS OUT IT'S JUST AN OPEN WATER RACING BIRD THAT HAD ESCAPED FROM TAIWAN AND NOW IT CAN HAPPILY LIVE OUT ITS LIFE FREE AS A BIRD.

GLAD WE FIGURED THAT ONE OUT.

THAT DOES IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

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THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WATCHING AMANPOUR & COMPANY ON PBS.

JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.