>> I AM SO, NO.

TONIGHT, THE DUXBURY MOM WHO WAS ACCUSED OF KILLING HER THREE YOUNG CHILDREN.

SHE CLAIMS SHE WAS OVERMEDICATED AT THE TIME OF THE MURDERS.

I WILL TALK TO A FORMER JUDGE WHO SAYS SHE WITNESSED THE OVER-PRESCRIPTION OF ANTIPSYCHOTICS IN YOUR COURTROOM.

LONGER HOURS, AGGRESSIVE CLIENTS AND TOUGH DECISIONS.

THEY ARE TAKEN A TOLL ON VETERINARIANS.

TWO VETERINARIANS JOINTLY WITH THEIR EXPERIENCES.

SUE: WHEN USED FIRST ROPE THAT A MOTHER IN DUXBURY ALLEGEDLY MURDERED HER THREE YOUNG CHILDREN THE TRAGEDY SPARKED A CONVERSATION ABOUT POSTPARTUM DEPRESSION AND PSYCHOSIS.

THE MOTHER, LINDSAY CLANCY, HAD REPORTEDLY BEEN SUFFERING FROM PREGNANCY RELATED MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES.

AS PART OF HER DEFENSE, HER ATTORNEY TESTIFIED SHE HAD BEEN TAKEN 13 MEDICATIONS PRESCRIBED TO TREAT MOOD DISORDERS, ANXIETY AND PSYCHOSIS.

HER ATTORNEY ARGUES IT WAS HORRIFIC OVER MEDICATION, WHICH HE BELIEVES WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR HER HOMICIDAL AND SUICIDAL THOUGHTS THAT LED LINDSAY CLANCY TO KILL HER CHILDREN AND TO ATTEMPT TO DIE BY SUICIDE.

MY NEXT GUEST HAS SEEN THIS FOR YEARS.

RETIRED FIRST JUSTICE OF THE WORCESTER JUVENILE COURT, JUDGE OR SKATING WROTE THAT FOR DECADES IN MASSACHUSETTS, THE RECKLESS INDIFFERENCE OF PRESCRIBING PSYCHIATRIST AND OTHER PROVIDERS HAS BEEN HARMFUL.

SHE IS NOW A PROFESSOR AT ANNA MARIA COLLEGE.

LISA COSGROVE, PROFESSOR OF UMASS BOSTON.

WELCOME TO BOTH OF YOU.

MEDICATIONS DO A LOT OF GREAT WORK, BABY HELP A LOT OF PEOPLE IN NEED.

-- THEY HELP A LOT OF PEOPLE IN NEED.

THERE ARE A LOT OF DOCTORS OUT THERE DOING A GREAT JOB, BUT THERE ARE ALSO SOME CHALLENGES AROUND THIS.

TALK ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE IN THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM AND WHAT YOU SAW AND WHAT RAISED YOUR CONCERN.

JUDGE ERKSINE: I HAD MANY YEARS AS A JUDGE'’S FOR 20 YEARS IN THE WORCESTER JUVENILE COURT.

ONE OF THE MAIN KINDS OF PETITIONS WE WOULD HEAR WHERE PETITIONS BY THE DEPARTMENT OF AND FAMILIES TO MEDICATE CHILDREN IN THEIR CUSTODY.

SO THERE ARE COUNTLESS CHILDREN IN STATE CUSTODY WHO ARE AROUND MULTIPLE MEDICATIONS.

UNDER STATE LAW, THE DEPARTMENT OF CHILDREN AND FAMILIES IS NOT ABLE TO CONSENT TO TREATMENT OF ANTIPSYCHOTIC MEDICATIONS FOR CHILDREN.

NOT ONLY DID I SEE THOSE PETITIONS, BUT I SAW HUNDREDS OF CHILDREN OVER THE YEARS WHO CAME INTO THE COURT WITH PARENTS AND FAMILIES WHO NEEDED MENTAL HEALTH HELP WHO WERE ON MEDICATION.

ONE OF THE ISSUES I WAS HAD WAS THAT IT SEEMED LIKE THE DEFAULT POSITION TO START CHILDREN ON MEDICATION.

SUE: WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THINGS YOU SAW AND WITNESS THE RAISED YOUR CONCERN, NOT ONLY THE ENVIRONMENT BUT HOW IT IMPACTED THE CHILDREN?

JUDGE ERKSINE: THE SIDE EFFECTS TO THESE MEDICATIONS ARE STUNNING.

AND THEY ARE SEVERE IN MANY CASES.

THERE WERE CHILDREN THAT HAD WEIGHT GAIN, SOMETIMES 30, 40 POUNDS ON CERTAIN MEDICATIONS, VERY YOUNG CHILDREN THAT CAUSE THEM TO HAVE PROBLEMS WITH PREDIABETES.

WE SAW SOME YOUNG CHILDREN WITH INCREASED LEVELS OF PROLACTIN.

WE STUCK CHILDREN WHO HAD DIFFICULTY STANDING, WALKING.

THESE WERE SERIOUS KINDS OF EFFECTS, INCLUDING SOME THAT EVEN IF THE MEDICATION IS STOPPED, THOUGH SIDE EFFECTS CAN CONTINUE FOR A LIFETIME.

A LOT OF HARMFUL EFFECTS.

SUE: LISA COSGROVE, IN MY FAMILY, A NUMBER OF PEOPLE HAVE BEEN ON MEDICINES FOR MENTAL HEALTH AND OUR EXPERIENCE HAS SOMETIMES BEEN STILL A MESSAGE OF, WELL, WE DO NOT KNOW IF THIS WILL WORK, LET US TRY IT FOR A FEW MONTHS AND KEEP TABS ON YOU.

IF IT DOES NOT WORK, WE WILL CHANGE IT.

WE HAVE BEEN PRIVILEGED ENOUGH TO HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE.

IT IS A LOT OF WORK FOR ME.

I CANNOT IMAGINE WHAT IT MUST BE LIKE FOR CHILDREN AND PARENTS WHO ARE IN DISTRESS IN A COURTROOM.

WHAT IS YOUR EXPERIENCE OF WHAT IS BEING DESCRIBED THE JUDGE?

LISA: SHE BROUGHT UP A REALLY GOOD POINT THAT THERE IS A DEFAULT POSITION THAT WE PIVOT TO A MEDICALIZED APPROACH AND INTO USING MEDICATION.

UNFORTUNATELY, THIS LEADS TO IRRATIONAL POLYPHARMACY.

THAT IS WHEN ONE AGENT IS ADDED AND THEN ANOTHER AGENT IS ADDED.

YOU ARE TREATING INDIVIDUAL SYMPTOMS RATHER THAN LOOKING AT THE PATIENT HOLISTICALLY.

SUE: WHAT POWER DO WE HAVE?

WE ARE TALKING AT LENGTH IT SEEMS EVERY WEEK SAY THINGS LIKE, IF PEOPLE NEED HELP, THEY SHOULD GO GET HELP, BUT THERE IS A SIX MONTH WAITLIST, BUT THESE PROVIDERS DO NOT TAKE SOME INSURANCE.

SOMETIMES THIS LANDS ON THE GENERAL PRACTITIONER TO SAY TRY THIS, THIS IS ZOLOFT OR PROZAC, UNTIL YOU GET TO THE NEXT STEP.

BUT THE KIDS YOU WERE SEEN DID NOT HAVE THOSE OPTIONS.

JUDGE ERKSINE: WHEN I RETIRED IN JANUARY, THERE WAS AN EIGHT MONTH WAITLIST IN WORCESTER COUNTY TO GET SERVICES.

SOCIAL WORKERS WERE SO FRUSTRATED BY THAT.

IT IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENS.

THEY PIVOT TO THESE MEDICATIONS.

THE OTHER CONCERN IS THAT THE MEDICATIONS THAT THEY START WITH ARE THE MOST POWERFUL MEDICATIONS AND SO RATHER THAN START WITH SOME OF THE MILDER MEDICATIONS, THEY WERE MOVING DIRECTLY TO IT.

THE PROBLEM WITH IT IS THAT THEY ARE USING ANTIPSYCHOTIC MEDICATIONS TO TREAT BEHAVIORAL PROBLEMS.

SO KIDS ARE ON THESE VERY POWERFUL MEDICATIONS.

THERE IS A LOT OF CONCERN AND INFORMATION OUT THERE THAT I WONDER SOMETIMES IF PEOPLE ARE PAYING ATTENTION TO.

THERE WAS A STUDY AT RUTGERS A FEW YEARS AGO THAT LOOKED AT KIDS ON THE AUTISM SPECTRUM.

300,000 WERE BEING TREATED WITH ANTIPSYCHOTIC MEDICATION BETWEEN THE AGES OF TWO AND SEVEN.

THE WHOLE NOTION I TRY TO GET ACROSS IS DIAGNOSTIC CRITERIA KEEPS EXPANDING AND THE AGED KEEPS EXPANDING IN THE WORLD OF PHARMACOLOGY AND IT IS HAVING A DETRIMENTAL EFFECT ON CHILDREN.

FROM THE BENCH, I COULD ASK A LOT OF QUESTIONS.

I COULD SAY TO THE PSYCHIATRIST, LET US TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT, WHY ARE YOU STARTING WITH AN ANTIPSYCHOTIC?

SOME OF THESE KIDS BEING OUT AT AGE 18 ARE STILL ON THE MEDICATION AND THEN THEY HAVE NO ACCESS TO CARE.

SUE: YOU WERE SHAKING YOUR HEAD WHEN I WAS DESCRIBING HOW DIFFICULT IT IS TO FIND A THERAPIST OR SPECIALTY, SOMEBODY WHO SPECIALIZES IN THE MENTAL HEALTH DISORDER WHO ACCEPTS INSURANCE.

THEY ARE ALL SORRY ABOUT IT AND DESCRIBE THE CHALLENGES THAT THE INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE PUTTING UPON THEM.

IT JUST PUSHES YOU RIGHT TO MEDICATION.

SO WHAT DO WE DO?

LISA: I THINK THERE ARE A COUPLE OF THINGS.

1.I WOULD LIKE TO RAISE IS THE FACT THAT WHEN PROZAC CAME ONTO THE SCENE IN THE LATE 1980'’S, WE SAW IT AS A MAGIC BULLET AND BAT MENTALITY IS STILL WITH US.

WE LOOK TO PSYCHOTROPICS AS IF THEY ARE ANALOGOUS TO ANTIBIOTICS, AND THEY ARE NOT.

THERE IS A CLEAR PUBLICATION BIAS IN THE SCIENTIFIC LITERATURE, THAT IS THE EFFICACY IS OVERSTATED AND THE HARMS ARE UNDERREPORTED.

A LOT OF PROVIDERS ARE GETTING ERRONEOUS INFORMATION.

SUE: JUDGE, WHAT STEPS SHOULD SOMEBODY -- THERE ARE SO MANY CHALLENGES AND CERTAINLY THE CHILDREN THAT ARE IN THE MOST NEED DO NOT HAVE THE SUPERVISION THEY NEED.

IS THERE SOMEBODY WE SHOULD BE CONTACTING TO DEMAND GREATER CARE FOR THE CHILDREN WHO COME BEFORE BENCHES?

JUDGE ERKSINE: THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION.

IT IS REALLY HARD FOR PEOPLE TO KNOW WHO TO GET IN TOUCH WITH AND WHAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO DO.

THE STATE OF MASSACHUSETTS WAS UNDER FEDERAL OVERSIGHT FOR 15 YEARS UNTIL 2021.

A FEDERAL JUDGE FOUND THAT PROVIDING MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES FOR THE POOREST CHILDREN WAS JUST NOT HAPPENING.

NOT A LOT HAS CHANGED.

THE DEPARTMENT OF MENTAL HEALTH, I DO KNOW IT IS CREATING NEW PROGRAMS, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO HEARING ABOUT.

I JUST HEARD ABOUT IT RECENTLY.

BUT IT IS VERY DIFFICULT.

THE DEPARTMENT OF MENTAL HEALTH IN MASSACHUSETTS WORKS TO PROVIDE SERVICES FOR MOSTLY ADULTS.

THERE ARE NOT A LOT OF SERVICES THERE FOR CHILDREN.

I THINK IT IS UNFORTUNATE THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO BRING THEIR CHILD TO COURT TO TRY TO GET HELP.

THAT IS DISTURBING ABOUT THIS.

WHEN THEY CANNOT GET HELP AND SERVICES AND THE CHILD IS HOSPITALIZED AND RELEASED FROM AN EMERGENCY ROOM, THEY SEND THEM TO THE COURT TO TRY TO GET HELP AND SERVICES.

IT IS A DIFFICULT THING.

SUE: I AM WONDERING WHAT YOUR FEELING IS.

WE ARE CERTAINLY TALKING ABOUT MENTAL HEALTH CHALLENGES IN A WAY THAT IN MY LIFETIME WE NEVER HAD.

AND DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THE CHALLENGES FOR CHILDREN.

AT THE SAME TIME, THESE OBSTACLES ARE IN PLACE.

HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE HOW YOU ARE LOOKING AT THE MENTAL HEALTH TERRAIN?

ARE YOU OPTIMISTIC?

ARE YOU WORRIED?

LISA: THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION.

I WOULD SAY CAUTIOUSLY OPTIMISTIC.

I SEE THE YOUNGER NURSE PRACTITIONERS AND PSYCHIATRIST BEING MORE OPEN TO CRITICAL THINKING ABOUT PSYCHOTROPIC MEDICATION, ABOUT THE RESEARCH.

IN THAT REGARD, I AM CAUTIOUSLY OPTIMISTIC.

I ALSO SEE MORE EMPHASIS ON LOOKING AT THE SOCIAL DETERMINANTS OF MENTAL HEALTH.

WHAT ARE THE UPSTREAM CAUSES AND TRYING TO ADDRESS THOSE.

SUE: I THANK BOTH OF YOU FOR YOUR EXPERTISE AND FOR ALLOWING US TO DISCUSS THIS COMPLICATED TOPIC.

THANKS SO MUCH.

JUDGE ERKSINE: THANK YOU.

SUE: NEXT, WE ALL LOVE OUR PETS.

DOES OUR DEVOTION TO OUR FURRY FRIENDS COME AT THE EXPENSE OF VETERINARIANS AND THEIR MENTAL HEALTH?

THERE ARE A LOT OF FACTORS BEHIND STRESS ON VETS WHO DIED BY SUICIDE AND MUCH HIGHER RATES THAN THE AVERAGE AMERICAN.

MOST VETS CITE BURNOUT AND THE INTENSE EMOTIONS WITH HER JOB.

-- THEIR JOB.

MORE THAN HALF OF ALL VETERINARIANS HAVE FACED ABUSIVE, AGGRESSIVE OR THREATENING BEHAVIOR FROM PET OWNERS.

THINGS ARE NO DIFFERENT IN THIS COUNTRY.

DR. ANDREW BLISS PRACTICES ANIMAL MEDICINE IN PENNSYLVANIA.

DR. MEGAN WHELAN IS THE CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER AT THE MSPCA ANGELL ANIMAL HOSPITAL.

WELCOME TO BOTH OF YOU.

THANK YOU FOR TAKING TIME OUT OUT OF YOUR BUSY DAYS.

YOUR ARTICLE CAUGHT MY EYE.

IT MADE ME REMEMBER HOW MUCH I CARE FOR THE STAFF I VISIT AT ANGELL AND TAKE CARE OF MY PETS.

CAN YOU TAKE ME -- TALK TO ME ABOUT THE ARTICLE YOU WROTE?

DR. BULLIS: THE ARTICLE WAS A BRIEF SNAPSHOT IN THE DAY OF A VETERINARIAN.

A PATIENT HAD A BROKEN LEG AND THE OWNER COULD NOT AFFORD TO TREAT IT.

YOUR LEFT WITH THE CHOICE, DO YOU JUST SEND THE ANIMAL ON ITS WAY?

TO MAKE MATTERS WORSE, THE OWNER WANTED TO PUT THE ANIMAL DOWN.

IT WAS A YOUNG PUPPY.

IT IS ONE OF THOSE SITUATIONS WHERE DO YOU DO THAT AND RELIEVE THE SUFFERING?

IN THE END, I DID EUTHANIZE THE ANIMAL.

IT IS A HARD THING TO DO.

NOT SOMETHING YOU SIGN UP FOR WHEN YOU WANT TO BECOME A VETERINARIAN.

THAT IS NOT WHY WE ARE IN THIS JOB, BUT IT IS PART OF IT.

I WROTE THAT ARTICLE IS A WAY TO FORMULATE MY OWN THOUGHTS ON THE SUBJECT.

EVENTUALLY, PEOPLE WANTED ME TO SHARE IT.

THE RESPONSE HAS BEEN REALLY GREAT.

I GUESS A LOT OF PEOPLE DO NOT KNOW SOME OF THE DIFFICULTIES WE FACE IN OUR PROFESSION.

SUE: A QUOTE FROM THE ARTICLE.

IT IS JUST YOU ON AN ISLAND, AND YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE THE BE ALL AND END ALL DOCTOR FOR ANYTHING YOUR COMMUNITY NEEDS.

DR. WHELAN, I AM SURPRISED BY THE SURPRISE THAT PET OWNERS HAVE WHEN IT COMES TO THE RESPONSIBILITIES THEY HAVE FOR THEIR PETS.

WE HAVE BEEN FREQUENT FLYERS AT CHILDREN'’S HOSPITAL FOR A LONG TIME.

ALSO FREQUENT FLYERS AT ANGELL.

I HAVE A SEVEN-YEAR-OLD GERMAN SHEPHERD MIX AT HOME AND FOUR-YEAR-OLD PUPPY AT HOME.

ONE TIME I WAS AT ANGELL WITH MY DAUGHTER AND PEOPLE WERE CRYING.

IT WAS SURPRISING TO HER BECAUSE PEOPLE DO NOT USUALLY CRY AT CHILDREN'’S HOSPITAL BECAUSE IT IS A DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE BECAUSE CHILDREN RARELY DIE.

THEY GET REALLY SICK, BUT THEY RARELY DIE.

BUT IT IS HARD FOR PET OWNERS TO UNDERSTAND THE SCOPE OF RESPONSIBILITY AND TREATMENT OPTIONS THAT WE NOW HAVE.

IN MY HOUSE GROWING UP, IF THE DOG SNEEZED, WE GOT WORRIED BECAUSE THERE WERE NOT THE MANY OPTIONS.

WHAT ARE THE CHALLENGES THAT PET OWNERS HAVE TODAY?

DR. WHELAN: THE MAIN CHALLENGE IS THAT GETTING THE CARE THEY DESIRE.

THERE ARE MAJOR STAFFING ISSUES.

NOT ONLY BEING ABLE TO FIND TECHNICIANS, BUT ALSO VETERINARIANS.

A LOT OF VETERINARIANS DURING THE PANDEMIC RETIRED EARLY COME OUT PERHAPS LEFT THE INDUSTRY FROM BURNOUT.

IT IS HARDER FOR LOCAL PRACTICES TO FIT IN URGENT CASES.

THE LARGER HOSPITALS ARE BECOMING OVERWHELMED.

WE ARE NO DIFFERENT FROM THE STAFFING ISSUE THAT IS OCCURRING.

THE SAME THING IS HAPPENING IN HUMAN MEDICINE.

IT IS VERY PARALLEL.

CHILDREN'’S HOSPITAL IS NOT VERY DIFFERENT IN TERMS OF THEIR ABILITY TO HAVE NURSES TO STAFF.

WE HAVE TROUBLE GETTING THE STAFF TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE SERVICES.

SUE: THE QUOTE I SHOWED, ALSO FOR A SMALL PRACTICE, YOU ARE DOING EVERYTHING.

YOU ARE DOING THE X-RAYS COME OUT THE ULTRASOUNDS.

THAT IS QUITE A STRESS ON A SMALL PRACTICE.

DR. BULLIS: IT IS.

DR. WHELAN IS CORRECT.

THERE ARE PET OWNERS THAT WANT TO SEEK TREATMENT AND ADVANCED OPTIONS.

EVEN TO GET THAT, IT IS VERY HARD.

A LOT OF THAT FALLS DOWN ONTO THE GENERAL PRACTICE.

WE CERTAINLY DO TRY OUR BEST, BUT AT THE END OF THE DATE, THERE ARE BETTER OPTIONS, SPECIALISTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

BUT IT IS VERY HARD TO GET INTO THOSE PLACES RIGHT NOW.

IT IS EVEN HARD TO GET AN APPOINTMENT AT OUR CLINIC RIGHT NOW.

WE HAVE BEEN TRYING TO HIRE ANOTHER VETERINARY FOR YEARS NOW.

WE CANNOT SEEM TO GET ANYBODY TO COME IN.

THERE IS A HUGE SHORTAGE OF STAFF.

SUE: LET'’S DO A LITTLE PROBLEM-SOLVING HERE.

DR. WHELAN, IF I AM A PET OWNER RIGHT NOW AND I WANT TO BE A BETTER PATIENT, A BETTER PATH BURDEN, -- PET GUARDIAN, BUTTER SOME THINGS -- WHAT ARE SOME THINGS I CAN DO?

DR. WHELAN: PLANNING IN ADVANCE.

DOING THE PREVENTATIVES.

KEEP ON YOUR ANNUAL VISITS.

WE HAVE SLOTS FOR THAT AND THE WHOLE POINT IS YOU WANT TO PREVENT A CRISIS.

BEING PROACTIVE TO ME MAKES SENSE BEING --.

VALENTINE'’S DAY COMES AROUND, DO NOT LEAVE THE CHOCOLATE AROUND.

THE DOGS WILL EAT IT.

WE TRY TO EDUCATE OWNERS ABOUT WHAT IS IMPORTANT.

BUT IF YOU HAVE AN EMERGENCY SITUATION, WE WILL SEE YOU.

THAT IS A HUGE PLUS.

LOCAL PRACTITIONERS ARE OVERWHELMED AND THEY ARE DOING THINGS THEY ARE NOT USED TO DOING BECAUSE THEY ARE IN THAT POSITION.

I'’VE MANY FRIENDS THAT ARE STRETCHING THEIR SKILLS OUT OF NECESSITY.

I THINK PLANNING AHEAD JUST BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF MY JOB MAKES SENSE.

DR. BULLIS: I THINK IT IS A GREAT IDEA TO PLAN AHEAD.

I KNOW THINGS ARE TIGHT, BUT EVEN PUT SOME MONEY ASIDE FOR THINGS THAT WILL GO WRONG.

WE TRY TO KEEP PRICES AS LOW AS POSSIBLE.

EVEN HAVING MONEY LEFT OVER FOR AN EMERGENCY CAN GO A LONG WAY FOR THAT ANIMAL THAT YOU HAVE.

SUE: I KNOW A LOT OF US GOT PETS DURING THE PANDEMIC AND NOW SOME OF THEM ARE THREE AND FOUR YEARS OLD.

IF SOMEBODY IS CONSIDERING GETTING A PET, BUT ARE A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT THEY SHOULD KEEP IN MIND ABOUT WHAT THE FUTURE WILL HOLD FOR THEM HAVING A PET.

THE COMMITMENT BOTH EMOTIONAL AND FINANCIAL THAT THEY WILL NEED.

DR. WHELAN: ONE IMPORTANT THING IS TO THINK ABOUT PET INSURANCE.

MY FRIEND JUST GOT A PUPPY AND I SAID ABSOLUTELY, I MIXED 100% SENSE.

YOU HAVE TO DO YOUR RESEARCH A LITTLE BIT.

AGAIN, THINKING AHEAD.

AND BEHAVIORAL TRAINING.

THAT IS ANOTHER REASON SOME OF THESE DOGS ARE BEING GIVING UP.

AND NOW THE DOG IS NOT CRATE TRAINED OR THEY WERE NEVER SOCIALIZED BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE ISOLATED FROM EACH OTHER.

AND NOW WE HAVE PROBLEMATIC COVID DOGS THAT WERE NOT SOCIALIZED.

SO SOME BASIC EDUCATION ON WHAT IS INVOLVED TO REALLY RAISE A PUPPY APPROPRIATELY SO THAT THEY ARE WELL-ADJUSTED.

POTTY TRAINING IS A HUGE ADJUSTMENT FOR THE DOGS AND A LOT ON THE FAMILY.

A LOT OF FAMILIES DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE REPERCUSSIONS AT THE TIME YOU WILL NEED TO PUT INTO THE PETS.

SUE: AS AN IRISH AMERICAN, ONE OF THE THINGS WE LIKE TO TALK ABOUT IS PREPARING FOR DEATH FOR EVERYBODY.

WE HAVE HAD CONVERSATIONS, I AM THE DESIGNATED GUARDIAN OF THE PET IN THE HOUSEHOLD.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO HAVE SOMEBODY IN CHARGE OF THAT.

WOULD YOU AGREE?

DR. BULLIS: I WOULD AGREE.

IT IS NEVER WRONG TO ASK YOUR VETERINARIAN WHAT THEY THINK, HAVING QUALITY OF LIFE DISCUSSIONS.

IT IS A VERY DIFFICULT DECISION.

WE TOTALLY UNDERSTAND THAT.

I PETS OF MY OWN.

IT IS SOMETHING THAT YOUR DOCTOR CAN HELP YOU WITH.

WE DO IT A LOT.

WE CAN CERTAINLY HELP YOU WITH THAT DIFFICULT TIME.

SUE: YOU DO NOT NECESSARILY HAVE TO BRING THE PET IN, CORRECT?

DR. BULLIS: WE ARE MIXED PRACTICE HERE.

I DO GO OUT TO PEOPLE'’S HOMES.

WE DO PERFORM AT HOME EUTHANASIAS.

THERE ARE COMPANIES THAT WILL DO THAT.

I THINK LAP OF LOVE IS ONE SUCH COMPANY.

SO THERE ARE OPTIONS.

IT IS ACTUALLY A VERY WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL EXPERIENCE TO DO EUTHANASIA AT HOME.

KEEP THAT IN MIND.

SUE: I THANK BOTH OF YOU.

I APPRECIATE BOTH OF YOU.

YOU HAVE SEEN ME IN THE WAITING ROOM AT LEAST ONCE A MONTH.

I APPRECIATE YOU SHARING YOUR PERSPECTIVE.

THANKS TO BOTH OF YOU.

THAT IS SET FOR TONIGHT, BUT COME BACK TOMORROW FOR TALKING POLITICS.

PLUS, WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE GOVERNOR'’S COMMITMENT TO TRANSPARENCY?

BET AND MORE TOMORROW AT 7:00.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

GOOD NIGHT.