WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & CO." FROM UKRAINE.

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> WE'RE IN DNIPRO WITH A SPECIAL REPORT FROM THE HOSPITAL SAVING THE LIVES OF THE WOUNDED SOLDIERS.

THEN -- >> CAN'T WALK AWAY NOW.

MR. PUTIN IS BETTING ON IT.

>> THE U.S. AND E.U.

ANNOUNCE SANCTIONS.

WILL PRESIDENT PUTIN FEEL IT?

I ASKED ONE OF THE BEST KNOWN EXPERTS.

AND GERMAN FOREIGN MINISTER ANNALENA BAERBOCK.

SHE'S THE FOREIGN MINISTER OVER THIS WAR FACE TO FACE.

ALSO AHEAD -- >> WE ARE HELPING PUTIN RIGHT NOW BY NOT ARMING AND NOT SUPPORTING UKRAINE.

>> THE U.S. SPECIAL REP FOR THE ECONOMIC RECOVERY TELLS MICHEL MARTIN WHAT THE FAILURE OF CONGRESS TO SEND AID MEAN FOR UKRAINE'S FUTURE.

>>> "AMANPOUR & COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

CANDACE KING WEIR.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.

MARK J. BLECHNER.

SETON J. MELVIN.

CHARLES ROSENBLUM.

KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN.

COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

EARLY THIS MORNING AN APARTMENT BUILDING WAS STRUCK BY THE DRONES.

TWO PEOPLE WERE KILLED.

KHARKIV AND ODESA WERE ALSO HIT.

YOU CAN SEE HOW MUCH CLOSER TO THE FRONT LINES THIS PLACE IS THAN KYIV AND THAT MAKES DNIPRO'S HOSPITAL A LIFE-SAVING STOP FOR THE WOUNDED UKRAINIAN SOLDIERS WHO COME BACK FROM THE FRONT.

EVEN THOUGH UKRAINE DOES NOT OFFICIALLY RELEASE CASUALTY FIGURES, TODAY WE GOT A RARE LOOK INSIDE AS THE WAR ENTERS ITS THIRD BRUTAL YEAR.

THE PARKING LOT AT DNIPRO'S MECHNIKOV HOSPITAL IS JAMMED WITH AMBULANCES.

THESE PATIENTS ARE THE LUCKY ONES, FULLY STABILIZED HERE AFTER THEIR WOUNDS HAVE BEEN TREATED, THEY ARE BEING EVACUATED TO HOSPITALS IN TEN OTHER UKRAINIAN CITIES.

IT'S A BLOODY CAROUSEL BECAUSE THEY'RE MAKING ROOM FOR THE NEXT WAVE OF CASUALTIES.

IN THE RESUSCITATION WARD, THE DIRECTOR TELLS US IN THE TWO YEARS OF RUSSIA'S FULL-SCALE INVASION, 28,000 FRONT-LINE SOLDIERS HAVE BEEN BROUGHT TO THIS HOSPITAL ALONE.

>> 200 PATIENTS.

VERY, VERY SERIOUS.

VERY, VERY SERIOUS.

>> EVERY DAY, EVERY NIGHT.

50 TO 100 PATIENTS FROM THE DONETSK REGION.

>> YES.

>> THE INJURIES ARE GRAVE.

SHRAPNEL FROM ARTILLERY, MINES AND OTHER DIRECT FIRE.

THIS IS THE TOWN THAT RECENTLY FIELD AND THAT'S WHERE THESE SOLDIERS HAVE COME FROM.

IN THE NEXT WARD, ALONE IN HIS ROOM, ARMY SERGEANT WAS INJURED ON SUNDAY, OPERATED ON MONDAY, AND HAD THREE LIMBS AMPUTATED.

HE SAYS THE RUSSIANS ARE BASICALLY JUST THROWING MEAT AT US.

MOBILIZED MEN WHO RUN AT US IN AN OPEN FIELD.

DO YOU HAVE ENOUGH TROOPS AND ENOUGH AMMUNITION?

HOW DO YOU FIGHT THEM?

WE'RE ON OUR OWN LAND, HE SAYS.

WE FIGHT TO THE LAST AND DO NOT GIVE UP.

IF THEY GET PAST US, OUR FAMILIES WILL BE NEXT.

WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO LOSE.

WAITING IN THE CORRIDOR OUTSIDE, HIS WORRIED PARENTS.

YOU KNOW, HE DIDN'T ASK US TO GO, HE SAID.

WE DIDN'T TELL HIM NOT TO.

HE SAID HE HAD TO.

AND HIS MOTHER HELENA TELLS US, HE SAID, I'LL DO EVERYTHING I CAN AND EVERYTHING THAT IS IN MY POWER.

LIKE SO MANY UKRAINIANS, THEY'VE GIVEN THEIR SON TO THE DEFENSE OF THIS LAND.

EVER SINCE PUTIN STARTED ROBBING THEM OF IT TEN YEARS AGO.

THE DIRECTOR TELLS US, NONSTOP SURGERY EVERY DAY ALL DAY IN ALL THE OPERATING ROOMS CONTRIBUTES TO THE 95% SURVIVAL RATE WHICH IS HIGHER NOW AFTER TEN YEARS OF IMPROVED COMBAT SURGERY AND TECHNIQUES.

EVERY OPERATION, EVERY PATCHED UP PATIENT IS A MATTER OF PATRIOTIC DUTY.

EVEN GIVING BLOOD IS MARKED WITH A CELEBRATION.

HERE WE RUN INTO AMERICAN HEDGE FUNDER AND PHILANTHROPIST WHITNEY TILLSON WHO HAS RAISED MONEY FOR GENERATORS, BATTERY PACKS, BUT BEYOND THE HUMANITARIAN, HE SEES THE BIG PICTURE.

>> I THINK THE STABILITY OF THE ENTIRE WORLD DEPENDS ON THE WEST HELPING UKRAINE STAND UP TO THIS AGGRESSION.

IF WE LET PUTIN WIN, I THINK THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING.

>> Reporter: AND SOMEHOW INCREDIBLY, LIKE THE OTHER WOUNDED WARRIORS WE'VE SPOKEN TO, VASILY SAID HE WANTS TO GET BACK TO HIS COMRADES ON THE EASTERN FRONT.

YOU AND YOUR SOLDIERS STILL HIGHLY MOTIVATED?

YOU'VE BEEN FIGHTING FOR TEN YEARS.

I HAVE NO CHOICE, HE REPLIES.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

OF COURSE I'M MOTIVATED.

AS FOR THE LOST LIMBS, HE SAID HE CAN BE A TRAINER.

HE CAN STILL BE USEFUL IN THIS FIGHT.

FROM HERE IT LOOKS LIKE IT WILL LAST A LOT LONGER THAN ANYONE THOUGHT.

IT REALLY IS REMARKABLE MOTIVATION THERE.

AND PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY MARKED GO THE TWO-YEAR ANNIVERSARY OF THIS WAR SAYING THAT UKRAINE WILL PREPARE A NEW COUNTEROFFENSIVE.

WITH MOMENTUM SHIFTING SLIGHTLY TOWARD RUSSIA RIGHT NOW, THE U.S. HAS JUST SLAPPED ANOTHER 500 SANCTIONS ON MOSCOW.

PRESIDENT BIDEN ONCE AGAIN URGED THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES TO SEND AID.

>> TO SUPPORT UKRAINE IN THIS CRITICAL MOMENT WILL NEVER BE FORGOTTEN IN HISTORY.

IT WILL BE MEASURED AND HAVE IMPACT FOR DECADES TO COME.

>> Reporter: BUT WILL THE SANCTIONS MAKE A DENT IN THE KREMLIN'S WAR MACHINE WHICH SEEMS TO BE RAMPING UP?

PUTIN ANNOUNCED TODAY THAT RUSSIA IS PRODUCING NEW HYPER SONIC MISSILES AND DEVELOPING AI-ASSISTED WARFARE.

JOINING ME NOW, FIONA HILL WHO ONCE SERVED ON THE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL AND SHE'S MET PRESIDENT PUTIN ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

WE HAVE A BIT OF A DELAY HERE.

LET ME ASK YOU WHAT YOU MAKE OF THE SANCTIONS.

DO YOU THINK THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE?

>> WELL, THE THING WITH THE SANCTIONS IS THEY ALWAYS MAKE A DIFFERENCE OVER A LONGER PERIOD OF TIME IN TERMS OF CONSTRAINING THE OPTIONS FOR COUNTRIES LIKE RUSSIA TO ACQUIRE VARIOUS TECHNOLOGY AND TO KEEP ON RENEWING THEIR ECONOMY.

IT IS SOMETIMES HARDER TO SEE THE IMPACT SHORT TERM.

WE DID HAVE A PRETTY IMPACT ON RUSSIA'S ABILITY TO TRUCK IN THE WAR EARLY ON.

WE ALSO HAVE THE PROBLEM THAT RUSSIA WAS ABLE TO DEPARTMENT AND LEARN.

THEY ARE STILL ABLE TO ACQUIRE TECHNOLOGY FROM OTHER COUNTRIES, EVEN INCLUDING FROM THE UNITED STATES.

WE'VE HAD A LOT OF REPORTS ABOUT THIS.

SO IN ADDITION TO ACTUALLY ANNOUNCING SANCTIONS, WE HAVE TO REALLY TRY TO FIND NEW WAYS OF ENFORCING THEM AND TO STOP OTHER COUNTRIES FROM ACTUALLY PROVIDING RUSSIA WITH EQUIPMENT.

YOU MENTIONED AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF YOUR OPENING SEGMENT ABOUT A BUILDING BEING HIT BY A RUSSIAN SHAHID DRONE.

THESE ARE BEING PROVIDED BY IRAN AND THESE ARE SOME OF THE EXAMPLES WE'RE FACING THAT COUNTRIES LIKE IRAN AND NORTH KOREA ARE PROVIDING RUSSIA WITH AMMUNITION AND EQUIPMENT.

WE HAVE TO FIND A WAY OF ADDRESSING THIS AS WELL.

>> YEAH.

I SAID IT BECAUSE I SAID RUSSIA, YOU'RE RIGHT, THEY ARE GETTING ALL THEIR, OR A LOT OF THEIR AMMUNITION FROM ELSEWHERE.

THEIR MAIN WEAPONS SYSTEMS.

AND THEY'VE RAMPED UP THEIR OWN DOMESTIC WEAPONS PRODUCTION SYSTEM.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE BATTLEFIELD RIGHT NOW, AND YOU SEE THE LOSS OVER THE WEEKEND.

YOU SEE MORE PRESSURE TOWARD BASICALLY TOWARD KHARKIV, WHAT ARE YOU THINKING AS YOU LOOK AT THE MAP?

>> WELL, WHAT I'M THINKING IS THAT AS THE PRESIDENT JUST THAT, THIS IS A REALLY CRITICAL MOMENT.

ONE OF THE REASONS THAT IT HAS FALLEN IS BECAUSE OF A LACK OF AMMUNITION AND THE UKRAINIANS HAVE HAD THAT.

THAT'S ON US.

WHILE WE'RE DITHERING AROUND TRYING TO MAKE A DECISION AS TO WHETHER WE STEP UP AT THIS HISTORIC MOMENT, AS WE SEE ALL OF THESE BRAVE YOUNG UKRAINIANS GETTING INJURED OR DYING ON THE FRONT, THIS IS A VERY SIMILAR SITUATION TO ACTUALLY WORLD WAR II WHEN THE UNITED STATES WAS TRYING TO SUPPORT BRITAIN AND THE UNITED KINGDOM FROM 1939 TO 1941.

THE DEBATES IN THE U.S. BACKWARD AND FORWARD.

WE HAD NO DESIRE TO PUT BOOTS ON THE GROUND.

WE'RE IN THAT KIND OF HISTORIC MOMENT WHERE WE WILL REALLY BE JUDGED BY HISTORY MOVING FORWARD ON THIS, AS TO WHETHER WE GIVE UKRAINE ENOUGH SUPPORT TO KEEP FENDING THE RUSSIANS OFF.

IT IS NOT DOING AN OFFENSIVE AT THIS TIME.

IT IS ABOUT KEEPING THE UKRAINIANS WHERE THEY ARE AND FEND THE RUSSIANS OFF KEEPING ANY MORE GAINS.

>> YOU DO SEE THAT THEY ARE MAKING GAINS, AND THE RUSSIAN MODUS OPERANDI, IF YOU LIKE, IN MAY WORD, GROZNY-FY.

THE CITIES BEING ATTACKED AND LEVELING WHETHER IT WAS THERE, IN SYRIA, WHETHER IT'S BEEN MARIUPOL.

YOU SAW THE OVERHEAD PICTURES.

AND YOU HEARD THAT YOUNG MAN SAY THAT THEY'RE STILL JUST THROWING MEAT AT US, IN HIS WORDS.

JUST RUSHING ACROSS THE FIELDS AT US.

THERE DOESN'T SEEM TO BE ANY RESTRAINT OR LIMIT ON WHAT THE RUSSIANS WITH WILLING TO DO AND HOW MANY THEY'RE WILLING TO LOSE.

>> EVENTUALLY THERE WILL BE A LIMIT.

THAT'S EVENTUALLY, RIGHT?

WE KNOW UP UNTIL NOW, THE RUSSIANS ON THEIR SIDE HAVE ABOUT 315,000 CASUALTIES.

THAT INCLUDES THE SEVERELY MAIMED LIKE THE YOUNG MAN WE JUST SAW IN HOSPITAL AS WELL AS KILLED AND TAKEN OUT OF ACTION.

THERE HAVE BEEN RUSSIAN MILITARY BLOGGERS.

ONE COMMITTED SUICIDE BECAUSE THEY REVEALED THAT THOUSANDS OF RUSSIAN SERVICEMEN HAVE DIED JUST IN THE ASSAULT OVER THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS.

PUTIN IS BANKING ON THE FACT, HOWEVER, THAT HE CAN KEEP THROWING MORE MEN AND AMMUNITION AT THIS BATTLEFIELD OVER THE NEXT YEAR TO BASICALLY INSTILL A SENSE OF DEFEAT IN US.

SO THE CRITICAL POINT IS, WE KNOW AS YOU'VE POINTED OUT VERY ELOQUENTLY THAT RUSSIA'S MODUS OPERANDI IS TO DESTROY EVERYTHING.

TO SACRIFICE AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE ON THEIR OWN SIDE.

PUTIN IS VERY WELL WILLING TO FATE TO THE LAST UKRAINIAN AND PRESUMES THAT HE'LL GET TO THAT BEFORE THE LAST RUSSIAN.

IF WE SHOW SOME RESOLVE HERE AND SHOW THAT WE'RE WILLING TO HELP SUPPORT UKRAINE AS IT DIGS IN AND KEEP FENDING THE RUSSIANS OFF, THAT MIGHT MAKE SOME, I WOULD SAY, CREATE SOME PROSPECT FOR A TURNING POINT.

THIS IS A CRITICAL YEAR IN 2024.

AND I THINK THE MAIN POINT IS THAT WE MUSTN'T BASICALLY BLINK.

WE SHOULDN'T STEP BACK HERE.

THAT'S WHAT PUTIN IS TRYING TO DO.

GET US TO BLINK, INCLUDING WITH ALL THE ANNOUNCEMENTS ABOUTHEIMER SONIC MISSILES, SATELLITE MISSILES IN SPACE.

HE'S TRYING TO GET US INTIMIDATED AND TO STEP BACK.

>> SO, SO MANY QUESTIONS ABOUT PUTIN THERE THAT I WANT TO ASK YOU.

GIVEN THAT YOU JUST THAT, IT'S CLEAR THAT HE'S TRYING TO SAY THINGS ON THIS ANNIVERSARY THAT ARE VERY, YOU KNOW, CONFRONTATIONAL, WHAT DO YOU THINK IF ANYTHING HE MANAGED TO GET THROUGH WITH THAT CONVERSATION WITH TUCKER CARLSON?

>> WELL, A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT MESSAGES THERE.

ONE IS THAT HE SEES THIS AS ALMOST AN ETERNAL BATTLE OF MUCH TO TUCKER CARLSON'S SURPRISE, HE KEPT TAKING EVERYTHING BACK TO THE NINTH CENTURY.

HE'S TRYING TO CONVEY IT IS AN ETERNAL PART OF RUSSIA.

AND NOT JUST RIGHT IS ON HIS SIDE AND MIGHT IS ON HIS SIDE BUT EVEN POPS UP, ALL HISTORY OF THE KIND OF THE EUROPEAN SPACE HERE.

HE ALSO MADE IT VERY CLEAR THAT HE HAD NO INTENTION OF DROPPING HIS MAX MALIST AIMS.

THERE'S SO MUCH IN EUROPE ABOUT IS IT POSSIBLE FOR UKRAINE OR ON A BROADER SCALE FOR THE EUROPEANS AND THE UNITED STATES TO NEGOTIATE WITH PUTIN AND RUSSIA AND THERE WAS NO SIGN IN THAT INTERVIEW WITH TUCKER CARLSON THAT PUTIN IS READY TO DO THAT.

HE SEES HIMSELF AS PREVAILING HERE.

HE ALSO SEES HIMSELF AS SOMETHING OF A CZAR, OF A RUSSIAN KING, A TIRYRANT, IN AN HISTORIC SENSE.

SO THERE WAS NO SIGN OF ANY MOVEMENT ON PUTIN'S PART.

AND HE HAS HIS OWN ELECTION TO GO THROUGH IN THIS NEXT MONTH IN MARCH.

AND HE'S LOOKING TO HAVE HIMSELF ANOINTED, CEMENTED IN PLACE SO HE CAN KEEP ON PURSUING THE TRACK THAT HE'S ON ALREADY.

>> BECAUSE YOU MENTIONED THE ELECTION AND PRETTY MUCH UNOPPOSED, WHAT EFFECT DO YOU THINK THE DEATH OF ALEXEI NAVALNY WILL HAVE AT ALL ON INTERNAL RUSSIAN POLITICS OR THE WAY PEOPLE OUTSIDE LOOK AT RUSSIA?

IS IT JUST, YOU KNOW, JUST SOMETHING THAT HAS HAPPENED THAT WON'T IN THE END MAKE A HUGE.

A DIFFERENCE?

>> WELL, PUTIN IS DEEPLY CYNICAL AND HE WANTS TO MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

THIS DREADFUL STAND-OFF BETWEEN THE RUSSIAN STATE AND THE PRISON SYSTEM AND NAVALNY'S MOTHER OVER ALEXEI NAVALNY'S BODY BEING RELEASED IS INDICATIVE OF THIS.

BEHIND THAT THERE IS A CONCERN ON THE PART OF PUTIN AND THE KREMLIN THAT ALEXEI NAVALNY MIGHT IN FACT BECOME A FLASH POINT FOR DESCENT AND OPPOSITION INSIDE RUSSIA AHEAD OF THE ELECTION.

THEY CALLED OUT FOR PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT HIM TO APPEAR AT THE RUSSIAN POLLS FOR THE ELECTION ON MARCH 17th AT THE VERY END, AT 12:00 NOON AS A SHOW OF DEFIANCE.

THERE IS A FEAR ON THE PART OF PUTIN THAT THE FUNERAL, ANY KIND OF FUNERAL, ANY KIND OF PUBLIC MANIFESTATION OF GRIEF AND MOURNING FOR ALEXEI NAVALNY MIGHT TURN INTO SOMETHING AS WELL.

AND THEY ARE, OF COURSE, WORRIED THAT OPPOSITION FIGURES INCLUDING THE WIFE AND DAUGHTER OF ALEXEI NAVALNY MIGHT START TO RALLY PEOPLE AROUND THEM.

SO WE'RE TRYING TO SEE HERE, WE'RE SEEING PUTIN TRYING TO INTIMIDATE EVERYBODY TO STEP BACK.

PLUS, ASSASSINATIONS OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE ACTUALLY STOOD UP TO THE KREMLIN IN DIFFERENT WAYS, OR HAVE TRIED TO THWART THEM.

A RECENT ASSASSINATION OF A RUSSIAN SERVICEMAN WHO PUTIN SEES AS A TRAITOR, OBVIOUSLY, BY LEAVING RUSSIA AND GOING TO UKRAINE.

BEING KILLED IN SPAIN.

ALL THE POISONINGS THAT WE'VE SEEN FOR A LONG TIME INCLUDING ALEXEI NAVALNY, THE KILLING OF THE INSURGENCY.

PUTIN WANTS TO SHOW EVERYONE THAT HE MEANS BUSINESS AND THERE'S A VERY HIGH THRESHOLD FOR ACTION.

>> DO YOU WORRY AT ALL ABOUT ALEXEI'S MOTHER WHO IS IN THE COUNTRY REALLY BEING VERY PUBLIC ABOUT HOW SHE'S HAVING THESE ARGUMENTS AND BASICALLY INSISTING THAT SHE BE ABLE TO HAVE HER SON'S BODY, BE ABLE TO BURY HIM AS SHE, THE FAMILY HAS A RIGHT TO, WITH THEIR OWN TRADITIONS, WHERE APPARENTLY SHE'S SAYING SHE'S BEING BLACK MAILED AND THREATEN.

ED, OR PUT HIM IN THE GROUND IN THE PENAL COLONY.

SHE IS REALLY GOING AT THEM FROM WITHIN THE BELLY OF THE BEAST.

>> WELL, SHE'S DOING EXACTLY WHAT HER SON DID.

THIS IS OBVIOUSLY AN INCREDIBLY BRAVE FAMILY AND THEY DO POSE SOMETHING OF A DANGER TO PUTIN.

AND TO HIS CYNICISM.

AND YOU'RE ALSO SEEING EVEN RUSSIAN ORTHODOX PRIESTS COMING OUT TO SAY THIS ISN'T A CHRISTIAN THING TO DO.

HOW ARE WE A CHRISTIAN ORTHODOX NATION IF WE DENY THE MOTHER THE RIGHT, THE LEGAL RIGHT AND THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT TO BURY HER SON IN AN APPROPRIATE FASHION?

YOU CAN SEE SOME MOMENTUM EMERGING AROUND THIS.

THE LONGER THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT KEEPS THIS STAND-OFF WITH HER, THE MORE RISKY IT MAY BECOME FOR THEM.

I THINK ALEXEI NAVALNY'S MOTHER IS AN INCREDIBLY BRAVE PERSON.

I DO WORRY ABOUT HER.

THE KREMLIN HAS SHOWN IT REALLY WANTS TO CLAMP DOWN.

IN PREVIOUS ITERATIONS OF WARS IN AFGHANISTAN AND CHECHNYA, YOU MENTIONED GROZNY.

IT WAS SOLDIERS' MOTHERS, THE MOTHERS OF THE VICTIMS, THE CASUALTIES OF THESE WARS THAT ACTUALLY DID PUSH BACK AGAINST THE RUSSIAN STATE.

AND THE MOTHER OF ALEXEI NAVALNY WHO HAS BECOME A MARTYR IN A POLITICAL SENSE, PUSHING BACK AND TRYING TO HOLD THE KREMLIN TO ACCOUNT.

AND IT WE SHOULD WATCH THIS VERY CAREFULLY.

SHE'S AN EXTRAORDINARILY BRAVE PERSON.

>> AND FINALLY, FIONA, I WANT TO ASK YOU, YOU WERE IN MUNICH AT THE SECURITY CONFERENCE.

WE MET THERE.

THERE WAS SO MUCH ANXIETY, IT SEEMED TO ME.

I COULD REALLY TAKE THAT IN.

ABOUT WHETHER AMERICA WOULD STAND FIRM AS A FULLY COMMITTED MEMBER OF NATO.

WHAT HAPPENS IF DONALD TRUMP WINS AGAIN?

CAN EUROPE CONTINUE TO COUNT ON NATO?

A LOT OF ANXIETY.

WHAT DID YOU TAKE AWAY FROM THERE?

>> WELL, I ALSO HEARD AND SAW IN TERMS OF INTERACTIONS AND WATCHING THE REACTION BEHIND THAT, AN INCREASING READINESS TO ACTUALLY STAND UP.

HERE THE UNITED STATES IS THE WEAK LINK.

I THINK IT IS RATHER SHAMEFUL IN THIS HISTORIC MOMENT THAT WE'RE SO CONCERNED WITH OUR OWN DOMESTIC RANCOR AND INFIGHTING THAT WE CAN'T SEE WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW.

IF WE LOOK BACK ON THIS MOMENT, IT WILL BE THE MOMENT WHERE THE UNITED STATES RELINQUISHED BASICALLY ITS INTERNATIONAL ROLE OUT OF WEAKNESS.

NOT OUT OF STRENGTH, WHICH IS SOMETHING WE'VE ALWAYS STOOD FOR OVER THIS LAST 100 YEARS OF REALLY TRYING TO SUPPORT OUR EUROPEAN ALLIES IN THE DEFENSE OF THEIR SECURITY.

BUT I'M STARTING TO SEE, AND PARTICULAR COUNTRIES IN THE BALTIC STATES, THE SCANDINAVIAN, NORDIC COUNTRIES, A REAL WILLINGNESS TO STAND UP AND SAY THIS IS AN HISTORIC MOMENT.

THIS IS ABOUT EUROPEAN SECURITY.

IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT UKRAINE AT THIS JUNCTURE.

IT WAS IN THE IMMEDIATE DAYS OF THE INVASION BY RUSSIA.

BUT NOW WE SEE THAT RUSSIA IS A THREAT.

IS AN INCREASING THREAT THROUGH THE MILITARY BUILD-UP, THE KIND OF ACTIVITIES RUSSIA IS PERPETRATING.

THIS ASSASSINATION OF A RUSSIAN SERVICEMAN WAS IN SPAIN, FOR GOD'S SAKE.

THERE HAVE BEEN MULTIPLE POISONINGS IN EUROPEAN COUNTRIES.

THE THREAT IS NOW APPARENT AND EUROPEANS ARE GETTING READY TO CONFRONT THIS.

IT CAN BE QUITE DIFFICULT AND CERTAINLY WITHOUT THE UNITED STATES, HARDER THAN PEOPLE WOULD HOPE.

I DO ACTUALLY SEE PREPARATION, READINESS, A PREPAREDNESS TO DO SOMETHING.

>> AND FINALLY, FINALLY, I WANTED TO ASK YOU WHAT AND HOW YOU ASSESS, ESSENTIALLY YOU REMEMBER THE WEST HAS BEEN SAYING PUTIN WANTS LESS NATO.

HE THOUGHT WE WOULD BE LESS UNITED.

HE THOUGHT WE WOULDN'T STAY THE COURSE.

IN FACT WE DID.

NOW, YOU KNOW, MANY PEOPLE HAVE SAID PUTIN IS WAITING THE WEST OUT.

I WONDER WHAT YOUR ANALYSIS, WHAT DO YOU THINK HE'S THINKING OF THE WEST'S STAYING POWER?

>> YES, HE'S QUESTIONING IT AS WE ARE QUESTIONING IT AS WELL.

I THINK THE ANTIDOTE IS TO SO WE HAVE THAT CAPACITY, THAT WILL TO RESIST.

PREPAREDNESS TO PUSH BACK.

IT'S NOT ABOUT PUSHINGBACK OFFENSIVELY AGAINST RUSSIA.

IT IS ABOUT HELPING DRAWN HOLD THE LANE AND DEFEND ITSELF.

>> FIONA HILL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

MY NEXT GUEST HAS BEEN FACING UP TO RUSSIAN AGGRESSION IN PERSON.

GERMANY'S FOREIGN MINISTER ANNALENA BAERBOCK ASKING LAVROV TO STOP THE VIOLENCE WHEN THEY MET AT THE G-20 SUMMIT IN BRAZIL.

AND THAT COMES AS THEY APPROVE FURTHER MILITARY AID TO UKRAINE.

THIS TIME TARGETING INDIAN AND CHINESE COMPANIES FEEDING RUSSIA'S WAR MACHINE.

FOREIGN MINISTER BAERBOCK JOINS ME NOW FROM NEW YORK.

WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

CAN I ASK YOU FIRST, WHAT WAS THE RESPONSE, WHAT YOU DID YOU SAY TO SERGEY LAVROV AS HE WAS SITTING CLOSE TO YOU AT THE TABLE?

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON YOUR PROGRAM.

I WAS TELLING THE FOREIGN MINISTER FROM RUSSIA VERY CLEARLY, BECAUSE HE ASKED THE CYNICAL QUESTION, WHY IS THE WHOLE WORLD OCCUPIED WITH UKRAINE?

I SAID WELL, BECAUSE YOU BROUGHT THE WAR TO UKRAINE.

AND WE WOULDN'T BE OCCUPIED IF YOU STOPPED THE WAR NOW.

IT IS ALL IN THE HANDS OF THE RUSSIAN PRESIDENT.

THIS WAR WOULD BE OVER TOMORROW.

THE WAR WOULD HAVE PEACE AGAIN IF PUTIN WOULD WITHDRAW HIS ARMY.

AND I WAS TELLING THEM STRAIGHT IN HIS FACE.

I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT AT THE TABLE WITH G-20 MEMBERS TO ALWAYS COUNTER HIS LIES HE'S BEEN SPREADING NOW FOR TWO YE YEARS.

>> AND WHAT WAS HIS RESPONSE, THE FOREIGN MINISTER?

>> WELL, WE'VE SEEN ALSO FOR TWO YEARS NOW THAT THE RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTER, BUT ALSO OTHERS, THEY COME, THEY GIVE THEIR SPEECHES WITH MANY, MANY LIES AND FAKE NEWS AND DO NOT REALLY REACT TO WHAT OTHERS ARE SAYING.

THE SECOND DAY HE WAS ONLY THERE FOR HIS OWN STATEMENT.

OTHERS AT THE TABLE ARE OBVIOUSLY HEARING.

THIS IS IMPORTANT THAT WE HAVE TO REALIZE.

THING HAVE REALLY CHANGED TWOFRLT YEARS AGO WHEN WE WERE MEETING AS FOREIGN MINISTERS AT G-20, A COUPLE OF WEEKS AFTER THIS HORRIBLE WAR FROM RUSSIA HAS STARTED, THERE WERE MANY OTHER COUNTRIES FROM AFRICA, FROM ASIA, BLAMING US.

NATO, TO HAVE STARTED THIS WAR.

BECAUSE THEY WERE FOLLOWING THE FALSE PROPAGANDA FROM PUTIN.

THIS HAS CHANGED DRAMATICALLY.

NO ONE, NONE OF THE OTHER 19 AT THE TABLE, HAD SUPPORTED PUTIN THERE.

AND THIS IS WHY WE HAVE TO BE SO CRYSTAL CLEAR TO ALSO PUT PRESSURE ON OTHERS LIKE CHINA TO TAKE A STAND.

>> THAT IS INTERESTING IF THAT SHIFT REMAINS AND HOLDS.

THAT IS INTERESTING.

THE GLOBAL SOUTH, THE G-20, BUYING INTO THE RUSSIAN NARRATIVE.

SO LOOK.

THE E.U.

HAS PUT SANCTIONS AGAIN AND ANNOUNCED MORE SANCTIONS ON TO RUSSIA AND SOME COUNTRIES PROVIDING RUSSIA WITH GOODS AND SERVICES.

THE U.S. HAS ANNOUNCED, PRESIDENT BIDEN AND ANOTHER 500 SANCTIONS AND TARGETS.

DO YOU REALLY THINK, OR WHAT DO YOU REALLY THINK THIS IS GOING TO DO TO CHANGE PUTIN'S BEHAVIOR?

>> WELL, THE SANCTIONS WERE NEVER MEANT IN THE FIRST PLACE TO CHANGE PUTIN'S BEHAVIOR.

IF IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SO EASY, THEN OBVIOUSLY, THIS WAR WOULD HAVE BEEN OVER.

BUT TO STOP THE SUPPORT FOR THIS BRUTAL WAR, TO CUT OFF ALL THE SUPPORTING LINES.

WHAT WE SEE, UNFORTUNATELY, ALSO, WAS IN THIS TWO YEARS, THAT THERE HAVE BEEN DRONES FROM IRAN.

THAT THERE IS A SUPPORT FROM NORTH KOREA.

WE HAD THE QUESTION, IF THERE WOULD BE SUPPORT FROM CHINA.

AND PUTIN HAS SOME BENEFITS IF THE MILL MATERIAL IS COMING IN.

THIS IS WHY THE SANCTIONS ARE ALSO SO IMPORTANT TO CUT OFF THESE LINES.

MAKING CLEAR TO ALL THE COMPANIES AROUND THE WORLD THAT THEY HAVE TO THINK TWICE, TO CHECK THREE TIMES WHETHER GOODS, DUEL USE GOODS, COULD END UP IN THE HANDS OF THEM.

>> FOREIGN MINISTER, YOUR UKRAINIAN COUNTER PART, DMEET ROW KULEBA THAT HAD THE WEAPONS PIPELINE NOT BEEN BLOCKED BY THE MAGA REPUBLICANS IN THE UNITED STATES, THE TOWN WOULD NOT HAVE FALLEN.

THIS IS A PRETTY BIG INDICTMENT OF SUPPORT OR NONSUPPORT FROM THE WEST.

A, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT?

YOU ALSO VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE BLOCKAGE OF MILITARY AID, AND WHAT CAN GERMANY OR EUROPE DO TO FILL THIS GAP?

>> WE HAVE SEEN WHAT THIS MILITARY SUPPORT HAS DONE OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS.

I THINK THIS IS ALWAYS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER BECAUSE THE DEBATES THAT WE SEE HERE NOW AT THE CAPITAL, WE HAVE ALSO IN GERMANY, ALSO IN EUROPE.

PEOPLE SAY WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

THE WAR IS NOT OVER.

THIS IS TRUE.

THIS IS PUTIN'S DECISION.

YET THE BRAVE MEN AND WOMEN FROM UKRAINE HAVE LIBERATED 50% OF WHAT PUTIN HAD CONQUERED IN THE FIRST PLACE.

PUTIN WANTED TO TAKE OVER THE WHOLE COUNTRY.

WANTED TO EXPEL 40 MILLION PEOPLE OR EVEN KILL THEM.

WITHOUT OUR MILITARY SUPPORT.

HE WOULD HAVE WON THAT WAR IN A COUPLE OF WEEKS.

BUT HE DIDN'T.

AND THIS IS WHY IT IS SO CRUCIAL FOR US THAT WE CONTINUE OUR SUPPORT.

THAT WE CONTINUE THE PEOPLE'S SUPPORT THAT THEY CAN LIBERATE THEIR TOWNS.

WHAT THEY'VE DONE IN THE BLACK SEA, THEY HAVE FOUGHT BACK.

NOW WE HAVE GRAIN COMING OUT OF ODESA AGAIN.

WE HAVE THE UKRAINE ON THE PATH WAY TO THE EUROPEAN UNION.

THE BAD THING WE COULD DO FOR PUTIN WOULD BE TO GIVE IN AND DO NOT SUPPORT UKRAINE ANYMORE.

THIS IS NOT AN OPTION FOR US IN EUROPE.

THIS IS WHY WE NOT ONLY INCREASED OUR MILITARY SUPPORT.

WE HAVE DONE THINGS WE WOULD HAVE NEVER THOUGHT OF BEFORE.

WE PASSED THE $50 BILLION FROM E.U., FROM GERMANY, FOR MILITARY SUPPORT.

WE KNOW AND WE HAVE LEARNED UNFORTUNATELY OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS THIS IS NOT ONLY WAR AGAINST UKRAINE.

IT IS A WAR AGAINST THE EUROPEAN PEACE, AGAINST THE CHARTER OF THE UNITED NATIONS.

SO UKRAINIANS ARE FIGHTING THIS WAR FOR US TO STAND UP FOR THE WORLDWIDE FREEDOM SO IT IS IN OUR COMMON SECURITY INTERESTS.

AND YES, THIS IS WHY IT IS SO HIGHLY NEEDED THAT WE HAVE THE CONTINUED SUPPORT FROM THE U.S.

I WAS SPEAKING TO MANY SENATORS AND GOVERNORS AT THE MUNICH SECURITY CONFERENCE, FROM BOTH PARTIES.

AND MANY OF THEM AGREED WITH ME.

THAT THIS IS ALSO A WAR WHERE OTHER AUTOCRATS, DICTATORS WATCH CLOSELY FROM THE WORLD AND THEREFORE ALSO, IT IS IN ALL OUR SECURITY INTERESTS.

>> YOUR DEFENSE MINISTER SAYS THAT WE ALL, THE WEST, GERMANY AND THE OTHERS, HAVE TO GET REAL AND UNDERSTAND THAT THEY COULD BE IN FOR DECADES OF CONFRONTATION WITH RUSSIA.

I BELIEVE IT WAS THE DANISH PRIME MINISTER WHO SAID THAT WITHIN THREE TO FIVE YEARS, PUTIN COULD RECONSTITUTION IF HE WINS HERE, AND STARTS THINKING ABOUT ATTACKING OR PROBING, TESTING ANOTHER NATO COUNTRY.

DO YOU SHARE THAT ASSESSMENT?

>> YES.

WE CANNOT BE NAIVE.

WE HAVE BEEN NAIVE FOR WAY TOO LONG IN THE LAST YEAR, IN 2014, THEY HAD BEEN THE INVASION.

EVERYBODY THAT, WELL, IT HELPS US SECURE OUR PEACE AND SECURITY.

UNFORTUNATELY NOT.

THE UKRAINIANS HAD TO PAY THAT WITH A VERY HIGH PRICE.

FOR ME IT'S CRYSTAL CLEAR.

WE HAVE TO STAND WITH UKRAINE AS LOG IT IS A TAKES.

ALSO THE DISCUSSIONS THAT MAYBE THERE COULD BE SOME FREEZING.

IF NOW IN THIS KIND OF SITUATION, UKRAINIANS WOULD STOP TO DEFEND THEMSELVES, WHO WOULD IMAGINE THAT THOSE CIVILIANS, CHILDREN IN EASTERN UKRAINE WHO ARE BEING SLAUGHTERED ON AND ON AND AGAIN, WOULD BE FREE AGAIN, NO, PUTIN WOULD JUST REGROUP.

THE HEAVY LOSSES HE HAS WITH HIS OWN MILITARY, HE WOULD HAVE AS A CHANCE TO REORGANIZE THERE.

AND THEN WE WOULD SEE HIS AGGRESSION LATER ON.

SO THEREFORE, WHAT WE HAVE TO DO, NOW IS CONTINUE WHAT WE HAVE STARTED.

ALSO, EUROPEAN, TO ADVANCE WITHIN NATO, WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE TO TAKE A BIGGER RESPONSIBILITY WITHIN NATO.

THIS IS WHY WE'RE INCREASING OUR MILITARY SPENDING TO OVER 2%.

BUT ABOVE THAT.

WE NEED MORE MILITARY PRODUCTION WITHIN EUROPE.

WE ARE HAVING TO BUILD A COMMON EUROPEAN AND DEFENSIVE UNION IN EUROPE AND THEN INTEGRATE IT AS WE HAVE DONE ALREADY.

SO BECAUSE WE CAN ONLY WIN THIS FIGHT TOGETHER.

>> ON ANOTHER ISSUE IF I MAY, ISRAEL AND PALESTINE, THE WAR IN GAZA.

WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU'S SUGGESTION, BLUE PRINT, WHATEVER THEY WANT TO CALL IT FOR THE DAY AFTER THAT ENVISIONS BIG SECURITY BARRIERS, INSIDE GAZA, CUTTING OFF OR CROWSING RAFAH AND GAZA TO EGYPT AND ESSENTIALLY HAVING PERMANENT OR FORESEEABLE SECURITY PRESENCE AND CONTROL FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA?

IN OTHER WORDS, FROM THE WEST ALL THE WAY THROUGH ISRAEL, THROUGH TO GAZA.

THE U.S. HAS SAID SETTLEMENTS ARE AGAINST INTERNATIONAL LAW.

THEY HAVE CRITICIZED THAT.

AND WHAT IS YOUR POSITION ON THIS DAY AFTER PAPER?

>> WELL, THE LAST FOUR MONTHS HAVE SHOWN CLEARLY, ISRAELIS, FUTURE GENERATIONS IN ISRAEL CAN ONLY LIVE IN PEACE AND SECURITY IF PALESTINIANS ARE LIVING IN PEACE AND SECURITY.

AND THE SAME GOES TO THE OTHER SIDE.

PALESTINIANS CAN ONLY LIVE IN PEACE AND SECURITY IF ISRAELIS LIVE FOREVER IN PEACE AND SECURITY.

AND THIS IS WHY WE NEED THIS PATH TO A TWO-STATE SOLUTION.

WE NEED THE SECURITY THAT THE 7th OF OCTOBER WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN.

WE NEED THE SECURITY FROM THE ARAB WORLD.

ON THE OTHER HAND, WE NEED THE SECURITY THAT ALSO PALESTINIANS CAN LIVE IN DIGNITY AND PEACE AS WE ARE ALL LIVING.

AND FOR THAT, IF YOU NEED A HUMAN HUMAN PAUSE NOW, NOW IS THE MOMENT WHERE WE NEED A HUMANITARIAN PAUSE TO FREE ALL THE HOSTAGES FROM HAMAS AND TO BRING IN THE HUMANITARIAN AID SO HEAVILY NEEDED BY THOUSANDS OF PALESTINIANS.

I MEAN, 17,000 CHILDREN WITHOUT FATHERS AND MOTHERS.

THIS CANNOT GO ON LIKE THAT.

AND ON THAT PATH WAY COMING THEN FROM A HUMANITARIAN PAUSE, AFTER THE HOSTAGES HAVE BEEN RELEASED, AFTER HUMANITARIAN AID IS IN, TO A SUSTAINABLE CEASE-FIRE.

AND THEN REALLY NOT ONLY THIS WAR BUT ENDING THE CONFLICT FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS.

THERE IS THE PATHWAY WE WANT TO GO WITH MANY PARTNERS LIKE THE AMERICANS, THE BRITS, WE ARE WALKING WITH ARAB PARTNERS ON THIS PATHWAY ALTOGETHER.

ONLY A TWO-STATE SOLUTION BRINGS PEACE TO EVERYBODY ON THE REGION.

ON THE WEST BANK, YOU WERE MEMMEM MENTIONING, I WAS VERY CLEAR WHEN I WAS IN ISRAEL THE LAST FIVE TIMES SINCE THE 7th OF OCTOBER.

INTERNATIONAL LAW IS CLEAR.

THE SETTLEMENTS ARE ILLEGAL.

AND THIS IS WHY THE SETTLERS PUSHING OUT PALESTINIANS FROM THEIR OWN HOMES.

I'VE WITNESSED SOME OF THESE FAE FARMERS.

THERE WAS A DRONE OVER MAY OWN HEAD.

IT IS TOTALLY ILLEGAL.

THAT THIS IS BEING SANCTIONED SO THIS VERY IMPORTANT, WE ARE STANDING ALL TOGETHER FOR INTERNATIONAL LAW.

IT IS VERY HARD.

I MEAN, WE ARE WORKING ON THAT DAY BY DAY BUT WE CANNOT GIVE UP.

WE HAVE TO BRING PEACE TO THE MIDDLE EAST.

HOW MUCH EFFORT IS NEEDED, WE HAVE TO CONTRIBUTE ALL OF US.

>> AND ONE LAST QUESTION ABOUT UKRAINE.

YOU TALKED ABOUT THE E.U.

AND HOW WOULD IT JOIN.

YOU KNOW THE E.U.

PRESIDENT HAS PUSHED ANY ACCESSION TALKS FOR MANY MONTHS.

WHY PUTTING IT ON A BACK BURNER?

>> WE MADE IT CRYSTAL CLEAR AS THE EUROPEAN UNION THAT UKRAINE BLOKS TO OUR EUROPEAN UNION.

YOU HAVE TO FULFILL ALL CHAPTERS OF EUROPEAN LAW WITH ANTICORRUPTION, WITH WILL OF LAW, WITH FREEDOM.

MEDIA, AND UKRAINE IS WORKING ON THAT ON A SPEED WHICH IS IMPRESSIVE.

THEY ARE OBVIOUSLY IN THE MIDST OF AER WITH A.

IF THEY ARE DOING THEIR REFORM SO QUICKLY, I'M VERY, VERY SURE THAT THE ENTERING OF UKRAINE TO THE EUROPEAN UNION, WE WILL SEE SOONER THAN LATER.

>> ANNALENA BAERBOCK, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>>> NOW FRESH OFF THE SUCCESS OF PUSHING THE FOREIGN AID BILL THROUGH THE SENATE, CHUCK SCHUMER HAS BEEN IN UKRAINE.

HE SAYS WITHOUT THE AID THE UKRAINIANS ARE FACING LOSSES FOR THE FIRST TIME IN A LONG TIME AND WARNS WHAT COULD HAPPEN IF THIS CONTINUES.

NOT JUST TO UKRAINE BUT ALSO TO THE WEST.

IT IS A WARNING ECHOED BY OUR NEXT GUEST, PENNY PRITZKER, THE FORMER COMMERCE SECRETARY HAD A LAST YEAR TOOK ON THE ROLE OF U.S. SPECIAL REPRESENTATIVE FOR UKRAINE'S ECONOMIC RECOVERY.

SHE JOINS MICHEL MARTIN TO DISCUSS WHAT CONTINUED U.S. SUPPORT MEANS FOR THE FUTURE OF THIS COUNTRY AND HOW TO REBUILD THIS NATION'S ECONOMY IN THE MIDDLE OF WAR.

>> THANKS.

PENNY PRITZKER, THANK YOU FOR TALKING WITH US TODAY.

>> MY PLEASURE TO BE HERE.

THANK YOU.

>> I WANTED TO START BY ASKING, YOU HAVE A SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP WITH UKRAINE.

DO YOU MIND SHARING THAT?

>> THANK YOU FOR ASKING.

MY GREAT GRANDFATHER WAS THE IMMIGRANT IN OUR FAMILY WHO CAME TO THE UNITED STATES 140 YEARS AGO FROM JUST OUTSIDE KYIV.

HIS FAMILY HAD A GRAN STORE THERE THAT WAS RANSACKED BY THE RUSSIANS.

THEIR LIVES WERE IN DANGER AND THEY WERE FORCED TO LEAVE AND COME TO THE UNITED STATES.

AND THERE HE WAS ABLE TO EDUCATE HIMSELF AND TO BUILD A BUSINESS AND GROW A FAMILY AND I'M A DESCENDANT OF HIS.

SO UKRAINE HAS ALWAYS HELD A VERY SPECIAL PLACE IN MY HEART.

AND PARTICULARLY SEEING WHAT THE RUSSIANS ARE AGAIN DOING TO UKRAINE, IT STRIKES A CHORD WITH ME.

>> YOU HAVE BEEN SERVING AS U.S. SPECIAL REPRESENTATIVE FOR UKRAINE'S CHECK RECOVERY.

YOU BEGAN SERVING IN SEPTEMBER 2023.

I'M NOT SURE THAT EVERYBODY KNOWS THIS POSITION EXISTS.

FOR THOSE WHO ARE JUST BECOMING AWARE OF THIS, WHAT ARE YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES?

WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN TASKED WITH DOING?

>> PRESIDENT BIDEN ASKED ME TO WORK ACROSS THE U.S. GOVERNMENT, WITH OUR ALLIES, TO WORK WITH THE UKRAINIANS, WITH THE PRILT SECTOR, TO TRY TO HELP THEM, THE UKRAINIANS PLOT A PATH FORWARD FOR ECONOMIC RECOVERY.

THERE IS A FUNDAMENTAL BELIEF WHICH IS THAT YOU HAVE TO PURSUE ECONOMIC RECOVERY AT THE SAME TIME YOU'RE PURSUING THE WAR.

YOU CAN'T LET THE ECONOMY JUST FALL APART.

WHAT HAS BEEN EXTRAORDINARY ABOUT THE UKRAINIANS, IS THEIR ECONOMY IS ALIVE, IT'S ACTIVE, IT IS RESILIENT.

THEIR GDP GREW 5% LAST YEAR.

INVESTMENT GREW 17%.

TAX REVENUES IN JANUARY WERE UP 25%.

AND INFLATION IS DOWN.

SO IT'S A VIBRANT PLACE.

60% OF THE COUNTRY HAS NOT BEEN TOUCHED BY WAR.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO KEEP THAT FUNCTIONING AT THE SAME TIME AS THE COUNTRY IS PROSECUTING A FIGHT AGAINST PUTIN.

>> SO AFTER RUSSIA INVADED UKRAINE IN FEBRUARY 2022, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, UKRAINE'S GDP SHANK BY 29%.

BUT AS YOU JUST TOLD US, IN 2023, THE GDP, GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT, GREW ALMOST 5%.

I MEAN, OUTPERFORMING, ACTUALLY, IN THE FLISHL FORECASTS, SOME ECONOMIES THAT ARE NOT AT WAR.

HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT?

>> SOME OF IT IS THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE UNITED STATES AND EUROPE.

FIRST OPENING UP THE BLACK SEA CORRIDOR AGAIN, REALLY, REALLY CRITICAL.

IF YOU REMEMBER LAST FALL, RUSSIA WALKED AWAY FROM THE BLACK SEA INITIATIVE WHICH WAS ALLOWING GRAIN TO GET TO THE REST OF THE WORLD.

MUCH-NEEDED GRAIN OUT TO THE REST OF THE WORLD.

WE HAD TO GET THAT CORRIDOR, WE DEVELOPED A NEW CORRIDOR.

IT HAD TO GET UP AND OPERATING AGAIN.

THAT IS ESSENTIAL TO TAX REVENUE COMING IN TO THE UKRAINIAN GOVERNMENT.

THE OTHER THING IS THE TECH SECTOR.

IT HAS GROWN OVER 7% OVER THE LAST 18 MONTHS OR SO.

THE UKRAINIAN TALENT, AND I HEAR IT FROM ALL KINDS OF MANUFACTURERS AND TECH COMPANIES.

IN FACT, I WAS WITH THE CEO OF BMW AND HE WAS TELLING ME, THE HARNESSES THAT RUN ARE ESSENTIAL TO RUNNING A BMW CAR ARE MADE IN WESTERN UKRAINE.

HE SAID I CANNOT FIND THAT SKILLED LABOR ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD.

SO THERE'S A TALENT BASE THERE AND A RESILIENCE IN THE PEOPLE THAT IS REALLY EXTRAORDINARY.

YOU SEE IT ON THE BATTLEFIELD AND YOU CERTAINLY SEE IT IN MANUFACTURING OR IN AGRICULTURE.

AND IN OTHER PARTS OF THE ECONOMY.

>> WOULD YOU SAY A BIT MORE ABOUT UKRAINE'S ROLE IN THE WORLD ECONOMY?

PEOPLE ARE USED TO THINKING OF IT AS THE BREAD BASKET AS THAT PART OF WORLD.

COULD YOU SAY ABOUT WHAT THAT ACTUALLY MEANS?

>> SURE.

FIRST OF ALL, MUCH OF UKRAINE'S GRAIN GOES TO THE GLOBAL SOUTH.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO FEEDING AFRICA AND OTHER PARTS IN THE SOUTHERN HEMISPHERE.

AND IF YOU THINK ABOUT ONE OF THE CAUSES OF MIGRATION AROUND THE WORLD IS LACK OF FOOD, THERE IS A DIRECT CORRELATION BETWEEN THEIR ABILITY TO PRODUCE GRAIN AND GET IT TO THE REST OF THE MARKETPLACE AND OTHER ISSUES THAT ARE FACING THE WORLD AROUND MIGRATION AND REFUGEES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

THE OTHER THING IS STEEL.

UKRAINE HAS AN ENORMOUS RESERVOIR OF RECYCLEABLE STEEL THAT CAN BE TURNED INTO NEW PRODUCTS.

ONE IN MODERN STEEL MAKING AS A RAW MATERIAL.

AND THEY HAVE THE LARGEST INVENTORY IN THE WORLD.

IT IS IMPORTANT THEY GET THEIR STEEL OUT TO THE REST OF THE WORLD AS WELL.

ANOTHER FACTOR IS UKRAINE HAS INTEGRATED ITS ENERGY SYSTEM WITH EUROPE.

SO IT HAS THE CAPACITY TO CONTRIBUTE TO EUROPEAN ENERGY, WHICH IS REALLY CRITICAL, YOU KNOW, AS EUROPE HAS WEANED ITSELF OFF OF RUSSIAN GAS.

>> YOU'VE SAID THIS ISN'T JUST MORE MILITARY AGGRESSION.

IT IS ALSO AN ECONOMIC WAR.

WHY DO YOU SAY THAT?

I GUESS A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE WONDERING WHAT THE MOTIVATION HAS REALLY BEEN.

IS IT THIS KIND OF MASSIVE EGO PROJECT OF THE RUSSIAN PRESIDENT?

IT SORT OF FEEDS HIS KIND OF QUEST TO RESTORE THE GLORY OF THE RUSSIAN EMPIRE?

OR IS IT SORT OF, BRING UKRAINE TO ITS KNEES BECAUSE THEY HAVE SUCCEEDED IN ALL THESE WAYS IN WHICH RUSSIA HAS NOT?

LIKE, WHAT DO YOU THINK IT'S ABOUT?

>> I THINK IT IS ABOUT EVERYTHING YOU JUST LISTED.

I THINK THIS IS AN EGO PROJECT OF PUTIN AEFRLTS I THINK IT IS ABOUT RE-CREATING THE RUSSIAN EMPIRE.

I THINK THIS IS ABOUT TAUNTING THE WEST.

THIS IS ABOUT VLADIMIR PUTIN'S CREATION OF WHAT IS HIS PLACE IN HISTORY.

AND IT IS HORRIFIC.

JUST OR INCH.

I WANT TO FOCUS ON SOMETHING REALLY IMPORTANT.

RIGHT NOW AS WE SPEAK, THE SITUATION IN UKRAINE IS DESPERATE.

WE ARE FOOT-DRAGGING ON OUR MILITARY AND ECONOMIC AID.

WE ARE HELPING PUTIN RIGHT NOW BY NOT ARMING AND NOT SUPPORTING UKRAINE.

THE EUROPEANS HAVE PASSED ECONOMIC SUPPORT, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE THE MILITARY EQUIPMENT TO SEND, OR THE MUNITIONS TO SEND TO UKRAINE.

WE DO.

THE FACT THAT WE'RE NOT DOING IT MAKES NO SENSE TO ME.

ONE CAN ARGUE, THIS IS ABOUT OUR OWN SECURITY.

THAT MAKES NO SENSE.

WE SHOULD BE DEFENDING UKRAINE BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO END UP WITH NATO IN A WAR WITH PUTIN WHICH WILL BRING ARTICLE 5 INTO PLAY.

WHAT ALSO DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME IS THE MONEY SPENT ON MILITARY EQUIPMENT BEING SENT TO UKRAINE IS ACTUALLY BEING SENT IN THE UNITED STATES.

WE SEND OUR OLDER VERSIONS OF EQUIPMENT AND EQUIPMENT TO THE UKRAINIANS.

THEY UPGRADE THEM AND WE PRODUCE NEW EQUIPMENT.

NEW BRADLEYS, NEW HOWITZERS, MADE IN MINNESOTA, MADE IN ALABAMA, MADE IN NEW JERSEY.

THAT INVENTORY GETS REPLENISHED AND THAT HAPPENS IN THE UNITED STATES.

SO I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY WE'RE DRAGGING OUR FEET.

IT MAKES NO SENSE TO ME AT ALL.

>> HAVE YOU HAD A CHANCE TO DISCUSS THIS WITH THE LAWMAKERS WHO ARE DRAGGING THEIR FEET?

ONE OF THEIR ARGUMENTS IS THAT UKRAINE IS NOT SHOWING SUFFICIENT SUCCESS ON THE BATTLE FIELD OF THAT THEY THINK IT WILL PAY OFF.

>> I THINK IT IS A MISPERCEPTION.

THEY'VE TAKEN 50% OF THEIR TERRITORY.

THEY'VE LIBERATED IT BACK FROM THE RUSSIANS.

315,000 RUSSIANS HAVE BEEN KILLED OR CAPTURED DURING THIS WAR.

THAT'S 87% OF THE SIZE OF THE RUSSIAN PRE-WAR ARMY.

TWO-THIRDS OF THE RUSSIAN MILITARY EQUIPMENT HAS BEEN DAMAGED OR DESTROYED.

AND UKRAINE HAS GONE FROM HAVING NINE DRONE COMPANIES TO OVER 200, PRODUCING DRONES ON THEIR OWN.

WE'RE ALSO LEARNING WHAT IT IS TO PROSECUTE A DRONE WAR.

THAT IS THE WAR OF THE FUTURE.

I THINK IT IS A MISTAKE TO THINK THAT UKRAINE IS FAILING.

IT IS A MISTAKE TO THINK OUR DOLLARS AND OUR EQUIPMENT IS BEING WASTED.

>> THIS WEEK, KULEBA TOLD MY COLLEAGUE THAT UKRAINE IS EXPANDING ITS ABILITY TO MAKE WEAPONS AND LESS DEPENDENT ON OUTSIDE FUNDING.

IS THIS SOMETHING THE U.S. SHOULD BE SUPPORTING?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MY EFFORT IS SUPPORTING.

WE'RE WORKING CLOSELY WITH OUR DEFENSE INDUSTRY HERE IN THE UNITED STATES AS WELL AS THE DEFENSE DEPARTMENT TO EXTRADITE SOME OF THAT PRODUCTION CAPABILITY.

IT'S EXTREMELY IMPORTANT AND IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE.

UKRAINE USED TO BE A DEFENSE EXPORTED TO EUROPE PRIOR TO THE WAR.

IT WILL BE SO AGAIN AS EUROPE IS REARMING ITSELF.

NOW IT NEEDS THE PRODUCTION FOR ITS OWN DEFENSE.

AND FRANKLY, THEY'RE DEFENDING US.

THEY'RE DEFENDING EUROPE.

>> SO TELL ME WHAT ELSE YOU'RE WORKING ON.

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE OTHER AVENUE THAT'S YOU'RE PURSUING AS PART OF THIS PROJECT AS U.S. SPECIAL REPRESENTATIVE INTO AID AND RECOVERY.

>> THE SECTORS OF THE ECONOMY THAT WE'VE BEEN FOCUSED ON ARE AROUND AGRICULTURE, HOW TO INCREASE PRODUCTION AND GET THE PRODUCT OUT TO THE WORLD MARKET WHICH NEEDS IT.

THE DEFENSE INDUSTRY, WHICH I'VE TALKED ABOUT.

THERE ARE VARIOUS PROJECTS THAT WE'RE WORKING ON.

MINERALS AND MINING AND STEEL, HELPING THEM GET THAT PRODUCTION UP AND OPERATING.

TECH, AS I'VE TALKED ABOUT.

ENORMOUS DEMAND FOR TECH.

AND THE INDIVIDUALS, AND THAT CAPABILITY.

AND THEN, OF COURSE, LOGISTICS AND TRANSPORTATION.

THE OTHER PART OF OUR WORK IS REALLY FOCUSED ON WHAT I CALL FOUNDATIONAL ISSUES.

THERE ARE THINGS THAT NEED TO BE TRUE BESIDES SECURITY IN ORDER FOR RECOVERY TO OCCUR, AND ALSO, TO MINIMIZE THE TIME FROM THE END.

WAR AND THE ECONOMY IS HITTING ITS FULL VELOCITY.

THOSE ARE THINGS LIKE INSURANCE, THINGS LIKE THE ABILITY, WHAT IS THE WORLD GOING TO DO ABOUT SEIZED RUSSIAN SOVEREIGN ASSETS.

WHAT ARE WE DOING ABOUT REFORMS WITHIN COUNTRY AND CORRUPTION?

THROUGHOUT THE STATE DEPARTMENT AND WITH OUR AMBASSADOR AND POST ON MAKING SURE THAT UKRAINE IS ADOPTING THE REFORMS NECESSARY.

NOT JUST TO TRADE WITH THE UNITED STATES BUT TO BECOME PART OF THE EUROPEAN UNION.

>> AND ONE OF THE ARGUMENTS THERE, ONE OF THE IMPEDIMENTS THERE, IT HAS BEEN SAID OVER AND OVER AGAIN, IS CORRUPTION.

THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS THEY HAVE NOT ALLOWED UKRAINE TO JOIN.

THE FACT IS THAT RECONSTRUCTION EFFORTS IN OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD HAVE NOT BEEN AS SUCCESSFUL AS OTHERS WOULD LIKE BECAUSE OF CORRUPTION.

I'M THINKING ABOUT IRAQ, ABOUT HEYDEN.

WHAT CAN YOU DO TO -- >> TO ENSURE THAT THAT HISTORY DOESN'T REPEAT ITSELF HERE.

>> THERE IS A LOT TO DO.

I BROUGHT THREE CEOs.

ONE FROM AN AG COMPANY, ONE FROM A FINANCIAL SERVICES COMPANY AND ONE FROM AN INSURANCE COMPANY.

WE SAT WITH ALL THE LEADERSHIP.

EVERY SINGLE PARTY WAS REPRESENTED.

AND THEY HEARD FROM THE CEOs WHAT IS COST IS AND WHAT THE IMPEDIMENTS ARE TO FURTHER INVESTMENT.

THEY ARE VERY MOTIVATED.

THEY ANTICIPATE PASSING SOMETHING LIKE 150 PIECES OF LEGISLATION.

PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY AND HIS LEADERSHIP TEAM, THE PRIME MINISTER, THEY'RE VERY FOCUSED ON ADDRESSING, THEN, NOT JUST HAVING THE LAWS.

IT IS A CULTURAL CHANGE.

THE THING THAT GIVES ME HOPE, WHY THIS CAN BE DIFFERENT.

THE POLLING OF UKRAINIANS, WHICH IS EXTENSIVE, I THINK IT IS SPG LIKE 80 PLUS PERCENT WANT TO BE PART OF EUROPE THEM SEE THEMSELVES AS EUROPEANS.

THEY SEE THEMSELVES BEING ABLE TO PARTICIPATE IN THE KIND OF ECONOMIC GROWTH THAT IS POSSIBLE IF THEIR.

THEY'RE PART OF THE E.U.

ENDS WHAT IS AT STAKE.

THE GOVERNMENT ALSO RECOGNIZES IN UKRAINE IF THEY DOME CLEAN UP THEIR ACT, THERE WON'T BE MORE FUNDING, THERE WON'T BE MORE SUPPORT FROM EUROPE, JAPAN, THE U.S. OR ANYONE ELSE.

EVERYBODY HAS WOKE 81 UP TO THE FACT THAT THIS IS A MUST-DO UNDERTAKING.

THEY'RE REALLY PUTTING THEIR SHOULDER TO THIS.

>> GOING BACK TO THE EXPERIENCE THAT YOU HAD AS A MEMBER OF THE PRIOR ADMINISTRATION, WHAT IS IT LIKE NOW?

ARE PEOPLE INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY?

>> YES, THEY ARE.

I WILL SAY THE VOTE THAT OCCURRED IN THE SENATE, 70-29.

I THINK THAT'S A REFLECTION OF THE SUPPORT WITH THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

IT ALSO EXISTS IN THE HOUSE.

IF THE SPEAKER CAN GET THIS BILL TO THE FLOOR, HE CAN.

IT COULD HAPPEN TODAY, IT COULD HAPPEN TOMORROW.

THERE'S ENORMOUS PROGRESS THAT CAN'T BE MADE.

WHEN I TALK ABOUT NOT ONLY THE POTENTIAL AND THE WAR BUT ALSO ECONOMICALLY, THEY GET QUIETED EXCITED.

FOR VERY LITTLE DOLLARS WE CAN REALLY HELP JUMP START THEIR ECONOMY AND HELP THEM BECOME MORE SELF-SUFFICIENT.

I HAVE FOUND THAT RECEPTIVITY.

THERE IS A BIPARTISAN MAJORITY SUFFICIENT TO PASS THIS LEGISLATION.

AND IT NEEDS TO GET DONE.

AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE IDEA OF WAITING SUCH THAT UKRAINE IS FORCED TO WITHDRAW.

THAT MAKES NO SENSE.

THEY WERE RATIONING AMMUNITIONS.

WHY?

THEY'RE DOING IT BECAUSE WE'RE NOT SUPPORTING THEM.

THAT'S TERRIBLE.

>> THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF FOCUS ON THE MILITARY AID THAT THEY NEED.

THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION WANTS THEM TO HAVE.

SOME MEMBERS IN THE HOUSE SEEM RELUCTANT TO GIVE.

WHAT IF THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN?

AND I'M FOCUSED ON YOUR ROLE.

WHAT IF THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN?

IS THERE A PLAN B?

>> IT HAS TO HAPPEN.

THERE CAN'T BE A PLAN B.

THERE IS MORE AT STAKE THAN JUST UKRAINE'S SOVEREIGNTY.

WHAT IS AT STAKE IS STABILITY IN THE WORLD.

PEOPLE NEED TO EMBRACE THAT.

OUR MEMBERS IN THE HOUSE UNDERSTAND IT.

I THINK THEY'RE BEING DRIVEN BY POLITICS.

AT SOME POINT YOU HAVE TO STAND UP AND BE COUNTED.

NOT JUST FOR YOU.

OUR CREDIBILITY IS ON THE LINE.

WE HAVE TOLD UKRAINIANS, WE HAVE TOLD THE WORLD THAT WE WILL STAND WITH UKRAINE.

NOW WE'RE WAFFLING?

IT MAKES NO SENSE TO ME.

>> MADAM SECRETARY, THANK YOU FOR TALKING WITH US TODAY.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>>> FINALLY, LIFE HERE IN UKRAINE HAS CHANGED DRAMATICALLY IN THE TWO YEARS SINCE RUSSIA INVADED.

FOR MANY IT HAD MOVED ENTIRELY TO NEW CITIES AND COUNTRIES FORCED TO LEAVE LINDA HOME UNDER ATTACK.

15-YEA ANDORY FLED WHILE HIS FA STAYED TO FATE.

NOW IN POLAND, HE SAID IT IS HARD TO TELL WHERE HOME IS.

HE HAS MADE NEW FRIENDS AT A BOXING CLUB AND LEARNED MORE POLISH.

>> Translator: SOMETIMES I FEEL HOW MUCH I WANT TO GO TO UKRAINE AND SEE EVERYONE.

HERE, I SOMEHOW GOT USED TO THE FACT THAT THERE IS A WAR IN UKRAINE.

THAT I HAVE MORE OPPORTUNITIES FOR MAY FUTURE HERE.

ALSO IN POLAND, A 16-YEAR-OLD FROM KHERSON.

SHE LEFT WITH HER MOTHER.

AFTER SLEEPING IN A BASEMENT FOR WEEKS, HER NEW HOME IS ON STAGE AT A LOCAL THEATER CLUB.

>> Translator: IT'S A SAFE PLACE WHICH I LIKE WHERE I FEEL LIKE HOME.

SOME PEOPLE SAY HOME IS NOT A PLACE WHERE YOU LIVE BUT HOME IS A PLACE WHERE YOU FEEL GOOD AND I FEEL GOOD ON THE STAGE WITH PEOPLE CLOSE TO ME.

THIS IS MY HOME.

>> JUST TWO OF THE MILLIONS OF UKRAINIANS FORCED TO MAKE NEW DREAMS FAR AWAY FROM HOME.

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