♪ ADAM: TONIGHT ON TALKING POLITICS, THE HEALY ADMINISTRATION IS PULLING THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS OF STATE GRANT MONEY FROM MILTON AFTER THE DECIDED TO TOSS OUT NEW ZONING RULES.

I TALKED TO MEMBERS OF THE YES AND NO CAMPAIGNS ABOUT HOW MILTON SHOULD MOVE FORWARD BUT FIRST SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN IS UP FOR REELECTION AND MASSACHUSETTS REPUBLICANS WILL BE PUTTING UP A FIGHT.

>> ELIZABETH WARREN PROMISED TO BE A CHAMPION FOR THOSE IN NEED.

INSTEAD, SHE GIVES LECTURES AND PLAYS POLITICS AND GETS NOTHING DONE FOR MASSACHUSETTS.

I WILL WORK DAY AND NIGHT TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN YOUR LIFE.

I KNOW YOUR LIFE STRUGGLES BECAUSE I HAVE LIVED THEM.

I KNOW YOUR DREAMS AND YOUR HOPES FOR YOU AND YOUR FAMILY BECAUSE I SHARE THEM.

I WILL FIGHT FOR WHAT IS RIGHT.

ADAM: CRYPTOCURRENCY ATTORNEY JOHN DEATON IS GEARING UP TO TAKE WARREN ON BUT HOW MUCH OF A CHANCE DOES HE HAVE?

JOINING ME TO TALK IS JOAN VENNOCHI AND TO TEACH NTETA -- TATISHE NTETA.

GOOD TO SEE YOU.

I WANT TO ROLL A LITTLE OTHER SNIPPET FROM THE VIDEO AND, JOAN, TELL US WHAT YOU THINK OF HIS PITCH SO FAR.

TAKE A LOOK AT ANOTHER SEGMENT WHERE HE STRIKES A POPULACE NOTE.

>> I TOOK ON THE GREEN CORPORATIONS AND THE HEARTLESS INSURANCE COMPANIES AND I WON.

I TOOK ON THE WASHINGTON INSIDERS AND I WON.

I AM RUNNING FOR U.S. SENATE TO CONTINUE MY LIFE’S MISSION TO SHAKE THINGS UP FOR THE PEOPLE WHO NEED IT MOST.

TAKE ON THE DRUG AND INSURANCE COMPANIES FOR BETTER, MORE ACCESSIBLE HEALTH CARE.

INSTEAD OF JUST POINTING FINGERS AT EACH OTHER.

ADAM: JOAN, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF HIS PITCH SO FAR?

JOAN: THIS IS SCOTT BROWN ON STEROIDS.

IT IS LIKE THE ANTI-ELITIST EVERYMAN.

I THINK THIS PITCH IS POWERFUL AND AWAKE AND WITH A REALLY VISCERAL CONNECTION, BUT HE SAYS NOTHING ABOUT WHERE HE STANDS ON ANY ISSUES.

HOW HE WOULD VOTE ON THINGS LIKE ABORTION OR IMMIGRATION, OR ALL THE THINGS THAT WE ASSOCIATE WITH ELIZABETH WARREN.

I THINK IN THIS POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT, WITH WASHINGTON AS POLARIZED AS IT IS AND EVERY VOTE COUNTING, IT IS HARD TO IMAGINE A REPUBLICAN SNEAKING INTO A SENATE SEAT THE WAY SCOTT BROWN DID, ESPECIALLY ONE WHO JUST MOVED HERE.

ADAM: TATISHE, HOW ABOUT YOU?

TATISHE: I THINK HE DEFINITELY PLAYS ON EMOTIONS, PARTICULARLY THE ANGER THAT MAY BE SEEN IN VOTERS IN THE STATE.

BUT, HE NEEDS TO MAKE A STRONGER CASE AS TO WHY IT IS A TWO-TERM SENATOR WHO HAS BROUGHT $50 BILLION BACK TO THE STATE IN FEDERAL FUNDING NEEDS TO BE REPLACED IN 2024.

AS JOAN MENTIONED, GIVEN THE POLARIZED NATURE OF OUR POLITICS, THE FACT THAT MASSACHUSETTS IS A RELATIVELY STRONG BLUE STATE, A REPUBLICAN ATTEMPTING TO KNOCK OFF A TWO-TERM INCUMBENT NEEDS TO MAKE A MUCH MORE CLEAR, SPECIFIC, AND STRONGER CASE FOR WHY IT IS THAT WARREN NEEDS TO BE OUSTED.

ADAM: YOU MENTIONED $50 BILLION WARREN HAS HELPED TO BRING BACK TO MASSACHUSETTS, SOMETHING SHE MADE SURE TO NOTE.

SHE RELEASED INFORMATION DOCUMENTING WHAT SHE’S BEEN ABLE TO DO FINANCIALLY FOR MASSACHUSETTS.

THE UMASS POLL HAS BEEN REGULARLY TRACKING HOW RESIDENTS FEEL ABOUT WARREN AND OTHER POLITICIANS IN THE STATE.

HOW DO FEELINGS ABOUT HER COMPARATIVE FEELINGS ABOUT OTHER ELECTIVES?

TATISHE: SHE REMAINS A POPULAR FIGURE IN THE COMMONWEALTH.

55% FROM OUR LAST FULL INDICATE -- POLL INDICATED THAT SHE HAS DONE A GOOD JOB.

THAT IS ONLY SECOND TO GOVERNOR HEALY.

SHE RANKS HIGHER THAN HER FELLOW SENATOR MARKEY, AND OTHER STATEWIDE OFFICIALS.

SHE REMAINS EXTREMELY POPULAR IN THE STATE.

SHE IS POPULAR AMONGST A NUMBER OF IMPORTANT GROUPS, GROUPS THAT OFTEN TEND TO TURN OUT TO VOTE ON ELECTION DAY, INCLUDING WOMEN, THE HIGHLY EDUCATED, AND WEALTHIER MEMBERS OF OUR COMMUNITY.

IT IS GOING TO BE REALLY DIFFICULT ROAD IF DEATON WANTS TO KNOCK HER OFF.

ADAM: IN ADDITION TO THE GROUPS YOU MENTIONED, SHE FARES WELL WITH VOTERS OF COLOR, RIGHT?

TATISHE: PEOPLE OF COLOR, CLOSE TO 60%, LITTLE OVER 60% APPROVE OF THE JOB SHE IS DOING, AS WELL AS YOUNG PEOPLE.

HER COALITION REFLECTS THE SORT OF STRONG PROGRESSIVE COALITION THAT GOT HER INTO OFFICE TO BEAT SCOTT BROWN, AND THEN TO GAIN REELECTION IN 2018.

IT LOOKS LIKE SHE’S GOING TO LOOK TO THOSE SAME GROUPS TO TURN OUT TO VOTE IN A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION YEAR.

DEATON WILL HAVE TO COME UP WITH A CLEAR AGENDA, CLEAR MESSAGE TO MOBILIZE THE VOTERS THAT ARE GOING TO NEED MORE STRONGLY CHALLENGED SENATOR WARREN.

ADAM: JOAN, FOUR YEARS AGO, ELIZABETH WARREN RAN FOR PRESIDENT AND I REMEMBER A POINT, BECAUSE I WAS COVERING HER CAMPAIGN, A POINT WHERE IT LOOKED LIKE SHE WAS THE DEMOCRATIC FRONT RUNNER AND MIGHT BE THE NOMINEE.

SHE ENDED UP NOT BEING THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE.

ON SUPER TUESDAY IN MASSACHUSETTS, SHE FINISHED BEHIND BOTH JOE BIDEN AND BERNIE SANDERS, WHICH A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE DESCRIBED SINCE THEN AS A KIND OF HUMBLING TO HER CAMPAIGN.

DO YOU THINK THAT FINISH IS CAUSE FOR CONCERN FOR WARREN?

JOAN: THAT HAD TO HURT.

SHE LOST THE LEFT TO BERNIE AND LOST THE CENTER TO BIDEN, BUT A PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN IS DIFFERENT THAN A SENATE ELECTION.

HER POLLING NUMBERS REMAIN STRONG.

I DON’T KNOW IF SHE HAS QUITE THE SAME EMOTIONAL CONNECTION THAT SHE DID WHEN SHE FIRST CAME ONTO THE SCENE.

IF YOU REMEMBER, THERE WAS A TIME WHEN EVERYTHING SHE SAID WENT VIRAL.

WHEN SHE TOOK ON THE CEOS, THOSE WOULD BE CLIPS THAT GO AROUND AND WOULD REALLY BECOME A VIRAL SENSATION.

I DON’T KNOW IF SHE CAN QUITE RECAPTURE THAT.

ON THE OTHER HAND, AS WE KNOW FROM HISTORY, IT IS VERY HARD FOR A REPUBLICAN TO WIN IN MASSACHUSETTS.

BILL WELCH TRIED AGAINST JOHN KERRY AND HE COULDN’T DO IT AND JOHN KERRY WAS NOT BELOVED.

I THINK SHE HAS THAT COALITION AND THAT HOLD, AND DEATON WILL REALLY HAVE AN UPHILL CLIMB.

ADAM: TATISHE, WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON THE PRESIDENTIAL RESULT FOUR YEARS AGO AND WHAT MIGHT MEAN TODAY, IF ANYTHING?

TATISHE: LOOKING BACK ON OUR POLLING, THE CENTRAL ISSUE THAT DEMOCRATIC VOTERS IN THE PRIMARY WERE LOOKING FOR IN A CANDIDATE WAS SOMEBODY TO BEAT TRUMP.

THE VOTERS IN MASSACHUSETTS CLEARLY ENJOYED SENATOR WARREN, AT LEAST DEMOCRATIC VOTERS DO, BUT HAD SOME QUESTIONS AS TO WHETHER OR NOT SHE WOULD BE ABLE TO DEFEAT PRESIDENT TRUMP.

THIS MAY BE A REFLECTION OF FEARS OF 2016 ALL OVER AGAIN AND THE ROLE OF SEXISM AND BEING THE VOTES OF THE NATION.

IT ALSO MAY REFLECT THE MOMENTUM BIDEN HAD AND THE STRENGTH BERNIE HAD AMONG THE PROGRESSIVE WING.

AS IT PERTAINS TO A SENATE ELECTION, I THINK THE STORY OF MASSACHUSETTS FOR MY LIFETIME HAS BEEN WE SUPPORT CANDIDATES THAT CAN BRING BACK THE BACON.

AND IT IS NO SURPRISE THAT ONE OF THE THINGS SHE RELEASED AS SOON AS DEATON SAID HE WAS RUNNING WAS ALL THE MONEY SHE BROUGHT BACK TO THE COMMONWEALTH.

THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE AS VOTERS IN MASSACHUSETTS TEND TO VIEW IN A POSITIVE LIGHT, AND THE FACT THAT SINCE BIDEN HAS BEEN IN OFFICE, SHE HAS BROUGHT BACK $20 BILLION.

THE LAST THREE YEARS.

ACCORDING TO HER REPORTS.

SHE’S TRYING TO MAKE THE CASE THAT SHE IS IN LINE IN TERMS OF BOTH THE IDEOLOGY OF THE STATE BUT ALSO IS DOING HER JOB EFFECTIVELY IN MAKING SURE THE INTERESTS OF MASSACHUSETTS ARE REPRESENTED IN CONGRESS.

JOAN: I THINK THAT IS A REALLY IMPORTANT POINT.

I WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT THAT CAPE COD BRIDGE.

AND WHEN THE MONEY WAS NOT COMING IN, PEOPLE WERE COMPARING IT UNFAVORABLY TO THE TED KENNEDY DAYS.

NOW THAT IT SEEMS TO BE MOVING FORWARD, BRINGING HOME THE BACON REALLY IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR A SENATOR.

ADAM: I FEEL LIKE THE RHYTHM WE HAVE ESTABLISHED HERE, BECAUSE OF ME -- I WILL BRING UP WHAT MIGHT BE A POSSIBLE SOURCE OF CONCERN FOR WARREN AND ONE OF YOU OR BOTH OF YOU WILL TELL ME SHE PROBABLY DOES NOT NEED TO BE WORRIED ABOUT THAT, AND THEN I WILL TRY AGAIN.

I WILL MAKE ANOTHER TRY.

ONE OF THE FINDINGS IN YOUR OCTOBER UMASS POLL WAS THAT MASSACHUSETTS VOTERS PRETTY STRONGLY SUPPORT THE IDEA OF A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT ESTABLISHING AN AGE LIMIT FOR SENATORS, A MAXIMUM AGE LIMIT.

47% STRONGLY SUPPORTED THE IDEA, 29% SOMEWHAT SUPPORTED IT.

THE AVERAGE AGE OF AN UPWARD LIMIT THEY SUPPORTED IMPOSING WAS 67 YEARS.

I WILL ASK AGAIN, IS THAT POSSIBLY CAUSE FOR CONCERN FOR ELIZABETH WARREN, WHO IS 74 YEARS OLD RIGHT NOW?

TATISHE: I THINK THERE’S A NATIONAL DISCUSSION.

THE BAYSTATE IS PART OF THAT DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW OLD IS TOO OLD TO BE IN THESE POSITIONS OF POWER?

WHAT IT MEANS FOR ONE GENERATION TO CEDE TO THE NEXT GENERATION.

I THINK THIS IS AN AREA OF POTENTIAL WEAKNESS FOR SENATOR WARREN.

SHE IS 74 YEARS OLD.

AT THE PRESIDENTIAL LEVEL, THERE’S A LOT OF DISCUSSIONS FOR BOTH BIDEN AND TRUMP ABOUT THEIR MENTAL ACUITY, THEIR PHYSICAL ACUITY, THEIR LEVEL OF ENERGY AND ENTHUSIASM FOR THE JOB, AND WHAT THAT WILL LOOK LIKE FOUR YEARS DOWN THE LINE.

THIS MIGHT BE A WAY IN WHICH DEATON CAN RESONATE WITH VOTERS.

THE ISSUE HERE IS THERE IS LITTLE EVIDENCE THAT ELIZABETH WARREN HAS LOST A STEP.

WHETHER THAT IS IN TERMS OF HER ENERGY AND ENTHUSIASM IN THE JOB, HER MENTAL ACUITY AND PHYSICAL ACUITY.

HE MAY MAKE THAT POINT, BUT I THINK THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING AND IT DOES NOT LOOK LIKE ELIZABETH WARREN HAS SLOWED DOWN ANY LESS THEN SHE FIRST STEPPED ONTO THE POLITICAL SCENE.

ADAM: I MENTIONED COVERING HER PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN FOUR YEARS AGO AND I DO RECALL BEING CONTINUALLY BOWLED OVER AT THE ENERGY SHE DEMONSTRATED AT THE STUMP.

SHE WAS PRETTY MUCH EVERY SINGLE DAY MORE ENERGETIC THAN I EVER HAVE BEEN IN MY LIFE.

JOAN, HOW DO YOU THINK THE AGE ISSUE MIGHT PLAY OUT?

JOAN: FUNNY YOU SHOULD MENTION THAT.

SHE MET AT THE GLOBE ON THURSDAY, AND MY FIRST REACTION TO HER APPEARANCE THERE WAS HOW MUCH ENERGY AND ENTHUSIASM SHE BROUGHT TO THE MEETING, AND HOW -- IF ONLY BIDEN COULD DISPLAY A FRACTION OF THAT, HE COULD PUT TO REST A LOT OF THESE QUESTIONS THAT ARE OUT THERE.

YEAH, I MEAN AGES VERY MUCH PART OF THE DEBATE RIGHT NOW, BUT IT IS MORE THAN A NUMBER.

IT IS HOW YOU COME ACROSS.

AND MAYBE IT IS GENERATIONAL, BUT WHEN I LOOK AT HER, I DON’T SEE AN OLD PERSON.

I SEE A PERSON WHO IS REALLY ENGAGED AND FULLY ABLE TO PROSECUTE THE CASE FOR WHY SHE SHOULD BE ELECTED.

ADAM: JOHN DEATON IS WORKING WITH JIM CONROY WHO HELPED CHARLIE BAKER IDENTIFY AND STRIKE THIS PERFECTLY CALIBRATED POLITICAL BALANCE AS A MODERATE REPUBLICAN GOVERNING MASSACHUSETTS DURING THE TRUMP ERA.

SO FAR, HIS TONE IS NOT BAKER-ES QUE, I WOULD ARGUE.

WE HAVE SEEN LITTLE CLIPS FROM HIS KICKOFF VIDEO THAT SUGGEST HOW HE IS PRESENTING HIMSELF.

I WANT TO READ FROM A TWEET HE SENT BACK IN DECEMBER 2023.

I HAVE NO IDEA IF JIM CONROY HELPED HIM CRAFT THIS AT THE TIME, BUT HE TWEETED "IS THERE TIME FOR ME TO BUY A HOME IN MASSACHUSETTS, ACTUALLY MOVE THERE AND RUN FOR SENATE AGAINST HIS GOVERNMENT OVERREACH HACK IN 2024?"

THAT IS A REFERENCE TO ELIZABETH WARREN.

HE SAYS "I’M A MASS LAWYER, I HAVE PRACTICED IN MASS FOR 15 YEARS.

I AM NOT SUGGESTING I WOULD WIND CONFRONT HER.

DOES THAT COMBATIVE TONE SUGGEST AN APPROACH THAT WILL RESONATE WITH INDEPENDENT VOTERS IN MASSACHUSETTS WHO COULD BE DECISIVE IN THIS RACE?

JOAN: FIRST OF ALL, YOU ARE RIGHT.

CHARLIE BAKER WAS PERFECTLY CALIBRATED FOR THE EIGHT YEARS HE WAS GOVERNOR.

I GUESS WE COULD CREDIT JIM CONROY FOR COMING UP WITH IT OR BAKER PROPERLY REFLECTING THAT IMAGE.

I DON’T KNOW.

WE ARE IN DIFFERENT TIMES RIGHT NOW.

I THINK EVEN IN MASSACHUSETTS, THERE IS AN ANGER RIGHT NOW THAT WAS NOT THERE EVEN A YEAR OR TWO AGO.

WHETHER IT IS ABOUT MIGRANTS OR WHETHER IT IS ABOUT COMMUNITIES WHO ARE BEING TOLD THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE HOUSING OR DON’T NECESSARILY WANT.

THERE IS AN ANGER OUT THERE THAT CAN BE TAPPED INTO.

HOW THAT WORKS IN A SENATE CAMPAIGN, I DON’T NECESSARILY SEE THAT AS A REALLY STRONG WAY TO WAGE A CAMPAIGN AGAINST ELIZABETH WARREN.

HONESTLY, I WOULD BE MORE CONCERNED IF HE WERE RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR AGAINST MAURA HEALEY.

I THINK, FOR THOSE OF US WITH A LONG POLITICAL MEMORY, THAT IS LIKE AN ED KING VERSUS MICHAEL DUKAKIS.

SOMEBODY WHO TAPS INTO AN ANGER AGAINST A MORE INTELLECTUAL APPROACH.

ADAM: BEFORE WE WRAP UP, ANYTHING ELSE WE HAVE MISSED THAT WE SHOULD HIGHLIGHT?

TATISHE: I THINK ONE OF THE CENTRAL THEMES THAT IS LIKELY GOING TO COME OUT OF THIS SENATE ELECTION IS THE FACT THAT DEATON IS NOT FROM MASSACHUSETTS.

HE WAS A FEW WEEKS AGO LIVING IN THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND AND JUST RECENTLY MOVED TO MASSACHUSETTS.

WHETHER OR NOT THAT IS GOING TO BE AN OVERARCHING ISSUE, AN IMPORTANT ISSUE, VOTERS WERE CONSIDER A LOT OF THESE CHARACTERISTICS THAT DEATON HE HAS PROVIDED.

HE’S ALSO BEHIND THE EIGHT BALL.

HE JUST STARTED HIS CAMPAIGN IN THE LAST WEEKS OF FEBRUARY.

MOST SENATE CAMPAIGNS HAVE BEEN GOING FOR A YEAR NOW, SO HE HAS TO INTRODUCE HIMSELF TO THE VOTERS IN MASSACHUSETTS AND MAKE A CASE.

OR HE MAY BE VIEWED AS A CARPETBAGGER, COMING IN AND ATTEMPTING TO UNSEAT AN EXTREMELY POPULAR SENATOR.

THE LIKELIHOOD OF THAT IS PROBABLY VERY LOW.

ADAM: THANK YOU BOTH AS ALWAYS.

GOOD TO SEE YOU.

TATISHE: THANK YOU.

ADAM: THE CONSEQUENCES ARE STARTING TO ROLL IN FOR THE TOWN OF MILTON WHICH VOTED TO DEFY STATE LAW LAST WEEK, TOSSING UP NEW MULTIFAMILY ZONING RULES MANDATED BY THE MBTA COMMUNITIES LAW.

THE ADMINISTRATION ANNOUNCED IT IS PULLING SEVERAL THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS OF GRANT MONEY FROM MILTON.

SO, HOW BIG A DEAL IS THE FUNDING CUT AND HOW SHOULD MILTON MOVE FORWARD?

I AM JOINED BY DENNY SWENSON WHO HELPED THE NO CAMPAIGN AGAINST THE NEW ZONING RULES, AND HAPPENS TO BE A FORMER GBH PRODUCER.

I AM ALSO JOINED I OF THE LEADERS OF THE YES CAMPAIGN, TOM CALLAHAN, ALSO A TOWN MEETING REP.

I WANT TO TALK ABOUT WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN NEXT, WHAT YOU TWO WOULD LIKE TO SEE HAPPEN NEXT, BUT I FEEL IT WE NEED TO UNPACK THE VOTE JUST BRIEFLY.

FROM YOUR VANTAGE POINT, WHY DID MILTON VOTE NO LAST WEEK?

DENNY: THE BYLAW THAT FAILED LAST WEEK WAS BUILT ON A MISCLASSIFICATION.

MILTON IS NOT A RAPID TRANSIT COMMUNITY AND THAT WAS THE MAJOR PREMISE THAT THE BYLAW WAS BUILT ON.

THE CITIZENS BY AND LARGE KNOW THAT HISTORIC TROLLEY, THEY CAN ONLY FIT 38 PASSENGERS, IT COULD NOT ADDRESS THE NEEDS OF 2500 NEW ZONED UNITS.

ADAM: THIS IS THE TROLLEY THAT LINKS UP WITH THE RED LIGHT ULTIMATELY AND BEING CLASSED AS A RAPID TRANSIT COMMUNITY MEANT THAT YOU NEEDED TO ENGAGE IN THE MOST AGGRESSIVE LEVEL OF BUILDING UNDER THIS NEW LAW, CORRECT?

DENNY: EXACTLY.

ADAM: TOM, WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON WHY NO WON?

TOM: THE VOTERS HAD ONE ALTERNATIVE IN FRONT OF THEM.

IT WAS SOMETHING PUT FORWARD.

IT COMPLIED WITH STATE LAW.

THE NO SIDE DID NOT PUT UP AN ALTERNATIVE ARTICLE.

WE’RE THE ONLY TOWN THAT HAS NOT DEBATED COMPETING ARTICLES AND THE NO SIDE STILL COME EVEN LAST NIGHT ON THE PLANNING BOARD HAS NOT MADE ANY PROGRESS.

THEY SAID LAST NIGHT, THEY WILL NOT HAVE AN ARTICLE THAT IS COMPLIANT AT ALL.

ADAM: THE MILTON PLANNING BOARD SAID THAT LAST NIGHT?

TOM: YEAH.

THEY WILL DOUBLE DOWN ON THE ARGUMENT DENNY WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT, WHICH IS TRYING TO PURSUE RECLASSIFICATION.

THE STATE HAS MADE THAT CLEAR, WE ARE A RAPID TRANSIT COMMUNITY AND WE THINK THAT IS A LOSING ARGUMENT.

ADAM: THIS ACTUALLY -- WE HAVE ACCELERATED VERY QUICKLY TO A POINT I WAS HOPING TO GET TO A LITTLE LATER, BUT LET’S TALK ABOUT IT.

THE QUESTION OF CLASSIFICATION.

DENNY, YOU LIKE THE IDEA OF MILTON GOING TO THE STATE AND SAYING, HEY, YOU HAVE MISIDENTIFIED US.

WE DON’T HAVE THE SAME LEVEL OF MASS TRANSIT ACCESS THAT THESE OTHER COMMUNITIES DO SO WE SHOULDN’T HAVE TO BUILD AS AGGRESSIVELY.

SO, WERE YOU HEARTENED BY WHAT THE PLANNING BOARD INDICATED THEY WOULD DO MOVING FORWARD?

DENNY: LAST NIGHT, THE PLANNING BOARD LISTENED TO THE MANDATE THAT WAS SENT BY THE VOTERS LAST WEEK.

THEY LISTENS TO THE CITIZENS WHO HAVE BEEN SAYING THEY DID NOT SEE MILTON AS A RAPID TRANSIT COMMUNITY.

OTHER TOWNS WITH FAR MORE RAPID TRANSIT AND FAR MORE TRANSIT HAVE BEEN RECLASSIFIED.

IT IS OUR POSITION THAT WE HAVE BEEN CLASSIFIED WRONGFULLY AND WE WOULD LIKE TO BE RECLASSIFIED AS ADJACENT COMMUNITY.

AT THAT POINT, WE COULD ACTUALLY MEET THE GOALS OF THE LEGISLATION, THE BYLAW THAT FAILED LAST WEEK WAS NOT MEETING THE GOALS OF THE LEGISLATION AS FAR AS CLIMATE SUSTAINABILITY.

OUR MILTON GOALS OF INCREASING AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

AND TRAFFIC MITIGATION, AND MANY OF THE OTHER WORTHY GOALS WE SHOULD BE STRIVING FOR.

ADAM: YOU AND I, I TALKED TO YOU AND TOM BEFORE THE SEGMENT.

WHY WOULD THE PLAN THAT MILTON SHOT DOWN, WHY WOULD THAT HAVE NOT MET GOALS INVOLVING CLIMATE RESILIENCY AND AFFORDABLE HOUSING?

DENNY: YES, THE BYLAW WOULD PUT 1100 UNITS IN EAST MILTON, WHICH WOULD WORK -- YOU COULD NOT WALK FROM THE TROLLEY THERE BECAUSE YOU CANNOT CROSS, AND YOU WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO WALK AS THE CROW FLIES GOING THROUGH PEOPLE’S YARDS AND OTHER PRIVATE PROPERTIES.

IT WOULD HAVE TO WALK A GREAT DISTANCE TO GET TO THE TROLLEY.

IT WAS NOT TRANSIT FRIENDLY APPROACH AND IT WOULD PUT THE VEHICLES OF 1100 RESIDENCES ONTO THE ROADWAY, CAUSING IDLING CARS WHICH IS BAD FOR THE ENVIRONMENT.

YOU WOULD NEED TO GET TO THE TROLLEY WHERE THERE IS NOT ENOUGH PARKING FOR THOSE.

IT WOULD BE 1700 NET NEW UNITS IN TOWN.

THERE WOULD NOT BE ENOUGH PARKING SO WE WOULD HAVE TO GIVE UP HOUSES IN NEIGHBORHOODS FOR PARKING LOTS WHICH IS NOT GREAT FOR THE ENVIRONMENT.

THE TROLLEY ONLY FITS 38 PASSENGERS.

IT WAS JUST A COMMON SENSE ISSUE AFTER ISSUE.

ADAM: TOM, DENNY MENTIONED THAT AS SHE SEES IT, THE PLAN THAT WAS VOTED DOWN WOULD HAVE EXACERBATED THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING SHORTAGE.

YOU CAN TELL ME IF I AM GETTING THIS RIGHT OR NOT, BUT THAT IS BECAUSE THE MBTA COMMUNITIES LAW DOES NOT REQUIRE THE NEW HOUSING THAT IS BUILT IS AFFORDABLE.

YOU MENTIONED THAT MILTON HAS STRUGGLED TO MEET THE REQUIRED LEVEL OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING UNDER STATE LAW.

I SAW YOU SHAKING YOUR HEAD WHEN I WAS SUGGESTING, OR WHEN I WAS PARAPHRASING DENNY’S ARGUMENT.

WHY WERE YOU SHAKING YOUR HEAD?

TOM: FIRST OF ALL, BUILDING MORE HOUSING IS GOING TO HELP WITH THE HOUSING AFFORDABILITY ISSUE.

ADAM: SIMPLY AS A MATTER OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND?

TOM: RIGHT.

THAT IS WITH THE MBTA COMMUNITIES LAW IS ABOUT.

YES, THERE IS AN AFFORDABLE COMPONENT.

MILTON HAS OPTED IN.

THE ARTICLE THAT WAS TURNED DOWN OPTED INTO 10%.

I THINK ONE OF THE FEW THINGS BUT NO AND YES SIDES AGREE ON IS THAT 2% OF HOUSING WOULD BE AFFORDABLE, SHOULD BE INCREASED TO 15% OR 17%.

I THINK WE BOTH AGREE ON THAT.

BUT, ESSENTIALLY WHAT THE NO SIDE IS SAYING IS WE SHOULD NOT DO OUR PART IN THE GREATER BOSTON HOUSING CRISIS.

BY BEING RECLASSIFIED, I DON’T THINK WE ARE GOING TO BE RECLASSIFIED, BUT GOING FROM ZONING FOR 2400 UNITS TO 950 UNITS.

THAT IS A LOT OF UNITS.

IF EVERY COMMUNITY GOT AWAY WITH THAT, WE WOULD NOT SOLVE THE HOUSING CRISIS AND THE SUPPLY CRISIS.

MILTON IS TRYING TO GET AWAY WITH SOMETHING THAT NO OTHER COMMUNITY HAS BEEN ABLE TO DO.

ADAM: YOU SAY THAT MILTON IS TRYING TO GET AWAY WITH SOMETHING NO OTHER COMMUNITY HAS BEEN ABLE TO DO BUT, DENNY, YOU MENTIONED THAT COMMUNITIES HAVE BEEN ABLE TO BE RECLASSIFIED?

TOM: THEY WERE NOT RECLASSIFIED.

ONCE THE STATE -- THE STATE DRAFTED REGULATIONS AND CERTAIN COMMUNITIES LIKE ARLINGTON, THE STATE AGREED SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED RAPID TRANSIT BECAUSE THERE’S NO SUBWAY OR NO TRANSIT LINE RUNS THROUGH THEIR.

A BUNCH OF COMMUNITIES WERE IN THE DRAFT REGULATION GUIDELINE STAGE.

WENT FROM ONE CATEGORY TO ANOTHER.

NO ONE HAS BEEN RECLASSIFIED.

NO INDIVIDUAL COMMUNITY HAS APPEALED AND BEEN GRANTED RECLASSIFICATION.

ADAM: I WANT TO GET INTO NOW -- WE HAVE LESS TIME THAN I INTENDED, BUT POSSIBLE ROOM FOR AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE NO AND YES SIDES.

DENNY, YOU LIKED THE IDEA OF RECLASSIFICATION.

YOU’RE NOT A FAN OF THAT IDEA.

IS THAT SOMETHING YOU COULD IMAGINE A CONCERTED OPPOSITION TOWARD TAKING SHAPE OR NOT?

TOM: I THINK THE A.G. WILL HAVE TO WEIGH IN.

THE A.G., A COURT WILL HAVE TO CONVINCE MILTON THAT WE ARE A RAPID TRANSIT COMMUNITY.

RAPID DOES NOT APPLY TO HOW FAST THE TROLLEY GOES.

IT APPLIES TO HOW FREQUENTLY SERVICE IS.

IT IS EVERY SIX TO 10 MINUTES IN RUSH HOUR.

THAT IS WHAT MAKES IT A RAPID TRANSIT COMMUNITY.

ADAM: DENNY, WHAT DO YOU SEE AS POSSIBLE GROUNDS FOR MAYBE NOT UNITY, BUT COLLABORATION MOVING FORWARD AS THE TOWN TRIES TO -- BECAUSE MY SENSE IS, YOU STRESSED THAT YOU WANT THE TOWN TO BE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THIS LAW.

YOU JUST DON’T THINK THE DEMANDS CURRENTLY BEING MADE ARE APPROPRIATE.

WHAT DO YOU SEE AS ANY SORT OF COMMON GROUND?

DENNY: I THINK THAT WE ALL AGREE, AND THE RESIDENTS BY AND LARGE WANT TO BE COMPLIANT.

THEY WANT TO BE PART OF THE SOLUTION.

I THINK COMING UP WITH 900 ZONED UNITS IS PART OF THE SOLUTION.

I THINK WE NEED TO BE TREATED FAIRLY BY THE STATE AND ACCURATELY BY THE STATE.

IT IS A SMALL TROLLEY THAT CAN FIT 38 PASSENGERS.

WE NEED SOLUTIONS.

WE NEED TO WORK TOGETHER.

JUST A MORE CONSTRUCTIVE APPROACH TO MEET THE LEGISLATIVE GOALS OF TRANSIT ORIENTED, TRAFFIC MITIGATION, CLIMATE SUSTAINABILITY, AND AFFORDABILITY.

THE ARTICLE THAT FAILED LAST WEEK, IT WAS ONLY 10% AFFORDABLE WITH THE DEVELOPMENT THAT WOULD BE OVER 10 UNITS.

ALL THE DEVELOPMENT THAT WOULD TAKE PLACE UNDER 10 UNITS WOULD BE 100% MARKET RATE.

WE WANT IT TO BE AT LEAST 15%.

I APPRECIATE THAT TOM WANTS IT TO GO UP AS WELL.

THE IDEA OF DOING THAT LATER, ZONING IT FIRST AND SEEKING THAT LATER WAS OF CONCERN TO OUR CITIZENS BECAUSE OTHER TOWNS DID THE FEASIBILITY STUDY PRIOR TO BRINGING IT TO TOWN MEETING, AND THEY LEARNED WHAT THEY HAD ZONED DID NOT PASS AND WOULD NOT HAVE GONE THROUGH AS 15% AFFORDABLE.

WE DID NOT GIVE AWAY THE FARM AND NOT BE ABLE TO GET IT BACK LATER.

WE WANT TO DO OUR ZONING RIGHT.

AND ZONING BY FEAR IS NOT A GOOD WAY TO GO.

THESE FAST-TRACK, LOOK AT A MAP AND SEE WHERE YOU CAN PUT 2500 UNITS AND DO IT QUICKLY WAS NOT WORKING OUT.

IF YOU DROVE THE ACTUAL PLACES WHERE IT WAS GOING TO BE PLACED, THERE WERE A LOT OF ISSUES THAT RAN IN THE FACE OF THE LEGISLATIVE GOALS.

ADAM: I WANT TO GET TOM WITH A FINAL WORD.

YOU ARE HOPING THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SUES MILTON AND ESTABLISHES YOU ARE IN FACT A RAPID TRANSIT COMMUNITY WITH A MAXIMUM REQUIREMENT?

TOM: I DON’T KNOW IF SHE WOULD HAVE TO SUE US.

I AM NOT A LAWYER.

I DON’T KNOW WHAT THE PROCEDURE IS BUT I THINK IT WILL ULTIMATELY BE DECIDED BY THE COURTS.

THE COURTS WILL EITHER RULE WE ARE RAPID TRANSIT OR NOT.

I DON’T THINK THERE’S A STRONG CASE FOR US TO NOT BE A RAPID TRANSIT COMMUNITY, BUT THE COURT WILL HAVE TO DECIDE BECAUSE WE HAVE A PLANNING BOARD THAT IS DOUBLING DOWN ON THIS RECLASSIFICATION EFFORT.

AND I THINK THE ONLY THING THAT WILL CONVINCE THEM, DISSUADE THEM FROM THAT EFFORT IS THE COURTS.

ADAM: ALL RIGHT.

ON THAT NOTE, THANK YOU FOR TALKING US THROUGH VERY COMPLICATED AND IMPORTANT STUFF.

THAT IS IT FOR TONIGHT BUT DO COME BACK NEXT WEEK.

PLEASE LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.

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THANKS FOR WATCHING AND GOOD NIGHT.

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