>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.

>> WELL, THANKS FOR JOINING US FOR THIS EDITION OF DONNYBROOK.

WE HAVE A LOT OF TOPICS AND IN FACT, THE MAYORAL PRIMARY IN THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS IS NEXT WEEK, SO WE'RE GOING TO GET INTO THAT, BUT FIRST, A LITTLE REMINDER THAT ON THE SECOND LAUGH OF THE PROGRAM, WHICH WE CALL INEQUITY UP, JACK FISHMAN, PROFESSOR AT ST. LOUIS UNIVERSITY, HE HEADS UP THEIR ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENCES ORGANIZATION, THE DIRECTOR THERE, HE'LL, US TO TALK ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE AND OTHER ISSUES.

FIRST, LET MEET THOSE ASSEMBLED AROUND THE ZOOM TABLE, SHALL WE SAY.

SHE'S WENDY WIESE, THE NEWS DIRECTOR FOR THE BIG 550 KTRS AND COHOST OF JENNIFER AND WENDY.

BILL McCLELLAN FROM THE ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH.

FROM THE RIVERFRONT TIMES, RAW STORY.COM, AND 550 AM, RAY HARTMANN.

AND FROM THE ST. LOUIS AMERICAN, WE WELCOME ALVIN REID.

WE'LL START WITH YOU, BILL McCLELLAN, BECAUSE I HOPE MANY OF OUR VIEWERS WERE ABLE TO CATCH THE MAYORAL DEBATE THAT WAS CARRIED BY NINE PBS AND THERE WERE MANY DIFFERENT POIX CHANGED.

IT WAS POSTED BY CASEY NOLEN OF KSDK AND I THOUGHT AT THE END, HE PRESENTED AN INTERESTING QUESTION BECAUSE THIS YEAR, WE HAVE APPROVAL VETOING, MEANING THAT YOU CAN VOTE FOR MORE THAN CANDIDATE AND THE TOP TWO WILL GO TO THE FINAL, WHICH WILL BE IN APRIL.

WELL, NOLEN ASKED THE PANELISTS WHICH SOUND LIKE A WEIRD QUESTION, BUT I THIT WAS VERY ILLUSTRATIVE, HE SAID WHO -- IF YOU COULDN'T BE MAYOR, WHO WOULD YOU WANT TO BE MAYOR?

SO CARA SPENCER SHOWS TISHAURA JONES AND SHE REALLY REJECTED LEWIS REED WITH OUR ANSWER.

TISHAURA JONES CHOSE LEWIS REED.

LEWIS REED CHOSE TISHAURA JONES, AND I DON'T THINK ANDREW JONES PICKED ANYBODY AS IT TURNS OUT, BUT I THINK THOSE CANDIDATES WERE ACTUALLY TELLING THE VIEWERS WHO THEY WANT TO RUN AGAINST BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE CANDIDATES THEY THINK THEY CAN DEFEAT IN THE FINAL.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> I THINK YOU READ TOO MUCH INTO IT.

I THOUGHT IT WAS GREAT POLITICAL THEATER.

I THOUGHT IT WAS A TERRIFIC QUESTION, BUT -- AND IT WENT TO CARA SPENCER FIRST AND I DON'T THINK THAT SHE WAS IMAGINING SHE WOULD RATHER RUN AGAINST TISHAURA JONES WHO'S THE STRONGEST CANDIDATE, BUT, YOU KNOW, SHE AND LEWIS REED, CARA SPENCER AND LEWIS REED HAVE BEEN GOING AT EACH OTHER IN A VERY HARD PERSONAL WAY AND DID IN THAT DEBATE.

SO WHEN SHE SAID THAT, WELL, I HAVE MORE POLICY OVERLAP WITH TREASURER JONES AND I WOULDN'T WANT LEWIS REED, YOU KNOW, THE BOARD OF ALDERMEN IS DYSFUNCTIONAL AND THEN IT WENT TO LEWIS REED AND HE DIDN'T PICK TISHAURA, HE JUST WENT AFTER CARA SPENCER, DIVISIVE AND HATE PORTFOLIOS I THOUGHT CASEY NOEL LEDGE TRIED TO GET HIM TO GO BACK, BUT HE KEPT GOING AFTER STERNS AND TISHAURA JONES SAID SHE KNOWS LEWIS REED'S HEART AND SHE'D GOO WITH HIM AND HE WAS -- GO WITH HIM AND HE WAS THERE SAYING KIND OF OUT OF TURN, I'D GO WITH TISHAURA.

IT WAS REALLY GOOD POLITICAL THEATER AND I THOUGHT IT HELPED TISHAURA JONES.

>> WELL, BILL, DON'T YOU THINK THERE'S JUST -- WHETHER IT'S LEWIS REED OR CARA SPENCER, THEY'RE BOTH JOCKEYING FOR NUMBER TWO?

I THINK THAT'S WHAT THEY WERE DOING.

>> I THINK THAT'S A GOOD -- >> I THOUGHT IT WAS A REAL GOOD DEBATE.

I HOSTED A COUPLE OF MAYORAL FORUMS IN 2017 AND I DON'T KNOW WHY, BUT THEY WERE -- THEY WERE VERY CORDIAL.

NOBODY SAID ANYTHING.

IT MAY HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE MODERATOR, BUT IN FAIRNESS, THEY WEREN'T DEBATES.

I THOUGHT RACHEL LIPPMAN FROM ST. PUBLIC RADIO AND CASEY NOLEN DID A REALLY GOOD JOB AND THE QUESTIONS WERE -- YOU COULD REALLY GET A SENSE, TO WENDY'S POINT, FOR SURE, CARA AND LEWIS REED, CARA HAS BEEN ON THE BOARD FIVE, SIX YEARS, THERE'S NO LOVE LOST BETWEEN THEM AND SHE IS VERY DEFINITELY, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S ASSUMED BY MOST PEOPLE THAT TISHAURA IS GOING TO HAVE ONE OF THE TWO SPOTS.

AND I THINK IT WAS A BATTLE FOR THAT, AND I THOUGHT -- IT'S REALLY INTERESTING DYNAMICS BECAUSE CARA AND TISHAURA IDEOLOGICALLY ARE VERY CLOSE ON MOST ISSUES.

AND LEWIS IS DEFINITELY NOT THE SAME PLACE THEY ARE WITH AIRPORT PRIVATIZATION, WHICH I THINK IS A BIG DEAL, AND CLOSING THE WORKHOUSE AND EVEN ON POLICING, LEWIS IS DEFINITELY, I GUESS, TO THE RIGHT OF THE TWO OF THEM AND BUT YEAH, DIFFERENT ALLIANCES AND I'M NOT GOING TO TRY TO GUESS WHY -- >> YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE PATH HE'S ON, BUT I'LL SAY, LIKE I SAY, EVEN LAST WEEK, I SAID THIS IS A BATTLE FOR NUMBER TWO WITH TISHAURA BEING ONE.

BUT THE MOST ATTACKABLE CANDIDATE AND I WOULD DO IT TOO, IF I WAS ANDREW JONES I WOULD DO IT.

THE ONE PERSON WHO DOESN'T NEED TO BE UP THERE IS LEWIS REED BECAUSE HE'S AS RESPONSIBLE OR MORE THAN, YOU KNOW, ANYBODY ELSE DOWN THERE.

HOW MANY YEARS HAS HE BEEN PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF ALDERMEN?

OKAY?

I MEAN, D.J.

WILSON AND I WERE THERE THE NIGHT THAT HE WON THE PRIMARY, BEAT JIM SHREWSBURY.

THAT SEEMS LIKE THE WILD WEST AGO.

AND SO I WOULD ATTACK HIM, TOO, BECAUSE HE'S THE ONE PERSON THAT SAID DON'T TALK WITH CHANGE OR ANYTHING BECAUSE YOUR PART OF THE PROBLEM.

BUT YES -- >> YOU ALWAYS LAUGH WHEN I SAY, THIS ALVIN, BUT I THINK LEWIS REED IS VERY IMPRESSIVE, AND I THINK THAT MAYBE IF PEOPLE AREN'T AWARE OF THE HISTORY THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, HE'S VERY IMPRESSIVE.

>> OKAY.

>> AND I THINK CARA SPENCER AND LEWIS REED, WHILE NOT TRYING TO HELP ONE ANOTHER, THEY WERE ATTACKING EACH OTHER, I THINK CARA WAS TRYING TO ENDEAR HERSELF TO THE TISHAURA VOTERS.

SAYING SHE'S RIGHT ABOUT THE BOARD OF ALDERMEN.

>> I THINK WE'RE MISSING A COUPLE OF THINGS.

NUMBER ONE IS, THIS PRIMARY IS GOING TO INCLUDE, ALBEIT A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF ST. LOUIS, REPUBLICANS, SO I DON'T KNOW IF TISHAURA JONES IS NECESSARILY IN THE BEST POSITION WHEN YOU HAD MORE CONSERVATIVE VOTERS FOR THE FIRST TIME.

YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOT LIKE FOUR YEARS AGO.

NUMBER TWO, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, AND FOR ONE HAS ACTUALLY MENTIONED, THIS WHICH MIGHT BE A CREDIT TO THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS, THERE ARE THREE BLACKS AND ONE WHITE.

ARE YOU TELLING ME WE'RE LIVING IN A POST RACIAL WORLD WHERE THAT WON'T HELP CARA SPENCER?

>> NO, WE'RE LIVING -- NO, NO, WE'RE LIVING IN A WORLD -- >> WHEN IT COMES TO CRIME, BOTH SPENCER AND TISHAURA JONES WANT TO CLOSE A JAIL.

NOW, MOST OF THE BLACK ALDER MEN IN NORTH ST. LOUIS DON'T WANT TO DO THAT.

YOU'RE TELLING ME THEIR CONSTITUENTS WANT TO DO THAT?

>> TO THAT POINT, THEY'RE RIGHT, FIRST OF ALL.

>> ARE THEY?

WHERE YOU GOING TO PUT THESE FOLKS?

>> CARA IS THE ONE THAT MADE THE POINT WE'RE ONE OF THE ONLY CITIES IN AMERICA THAT HAVE MULTIPLE CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES.

>> WHO CARES?

>> I WANT TO GO BACK TO WHAT ALVIN SAID.

THE ONLY PERSON THAT INVOKED AT ALL LYDA KREWSON WAS LEWIS AND US WILL WIS, IF YOU FORGET GOOD WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT ANY OF THEM, LEWIS WAS THE ONLY PERSON WHO REALLY DEFENDED THE ESSENTIALLY THE STATUS QUO OR -- >> THERE YOU GO.

>> I'M SAYING HE WAS -- AGAIN, TO ALVIN'S POINT, HE'S BEEN PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF ALDER MEN AND I'M NOT SAYING HE DOESN'T WANT TO CHANGE ANYTHING, BUT HE WAS DEFINITELY THE ONLY PERSON SPECIFICALLY TO BRING UP LYDA AND SAY SHE HAD DONE GOOD.

>> PURPOSELY SO BECAUSE SHE GOT THE MOST VOTES LAST TIME.

DID YOU FORGET?

>> WAIT A MINUTE.

SHE DID GLOT GET THE MOST VOTES AND THAT WAS WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY.

YOU WERE ASKING WHAT CHANGED.

WHAT CHANGED, CHARLIE, IS THERE IS THIS APPROVAL VOTING AND IF LEWIS REED WAS AGAINST TISHAURA AND THEN ANDREW JONES, CARA SPENCER WOULD PROBABLY BE THE MAYOR BECAUSE THEY WOULD SPLIT ALL THOSE VOTES JUST LIKE HAPPENED FOUR YEARS AGO.

THAT'S WHAT CHANGED.

>> BUT LYDA DID GET THE MOST VOTES OF THOSE WHO RAN.

>> NO, SHE DIDN'T.

>> YES, SHE DID.

SHE WON THE RACE.

SHE WON.

>> BECAUSE IT WAS SPLIT.

>> NO, IT WAS -- >> 30% OF THE POPULAR VOTE, OKAY?

SHE DID NOT.

THEY THEY CAME NOWHERE CLOSE TO THAT.

>> YOU'RE SAYING SHE DIDN'T GET A MAJORITY OF OVER 50%.

>> SHE GOT MORE VOTES THAN ANY OTHER CANDIDATE.

>> I'M JUST SAYING THAT -- BUT THAT WON'T HAPPEN THIS TIME BECAUSE THAT WILL BE SAVED AND SO THERE'S TWO CANDIDATES AND NOT FOUR CANDIDATES SPLITTING UP THE BLACK VOTE.

>> EXACTLY.

CHARLIE, NOBODY IS SAYING THAT CARA -- THAT THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN, YOU KNOW.

>> YES.

>> IT'S NOT STOP THE STEAL.

LYDA KREWSON WON FAIR AND SQUARE, BUT THE POINT IS, WITH THE OLD SYSTEM, WHICH IS WORSE THAN THE NEW SYSTEM EVER -- HOWEVER IMPERFECT IT MIGHT BE.

WITH THE OLD SYSTEM, THE MAYOR WAS BASICALLY CHOSEN BY ABOUT 7% OF THE RESIDENTS OF THE CITY AND IT WAS JUST A MATTER OF GETTING -- I WAS AT 30 SOME PERCENT IN THE DEMOCRATIC FIELD.

THIS IS A MUCH BETTER SYSTEM TO HAVE A TWO-PERSON RUNOFF.

>> BUT THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE -- WHO WOULD THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE BE TODAY IF WE HAD APPROVAL VOTING IN THE COUNTY?

>> I DON'T KNOW, WE'LL SAVE THAT FOR ANOTHER SHOW.

HOW ABOUT THIS?

MOVING ON TO THE SECOND TOPIC, RAY HARTMANN, ALEX GARCIA, A HONDURAN IMMIGRANT TO THIS COUNTRY, CAME HERE IN 2000, HAS BEEN FIGHTING THE IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT TO QUITE SOME TIME, BUT IN 2017, THEY SAID THAT HIS TIME WAS UP AND HAEED TO LEAVE.

SO INSTEAD OF LEAVING, HE WENT INTO THE CHURCH BASEMENT OF A CHURCH IN MAPLEWOOD AND HE'S BEEN THERE FOR THREE AND A HALF YEARS.

WELL, THIS WEEK, HE GOT OUT.

WHY?

BECAUSE THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION SAID THAT IT WOULD NOT BE DEPORTING PEOPLE IN HIS CATEGORY.

AND I THINK THAT'S GREAT BECAUSE HE'S A HARD WORKER, HE HAS NO PRIOR PROBLEMS WITH THE LAW, HE'S GOT A LOVING FAMILY.

BUT I WILL ALSO SAY THAT A SYSTEM THAT SAYS THAT IF YOU BROKE THE LAW AND YOU CAN STAY NO PROBLEMS, I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED WITH BECAUSE I'LL TELL YOU, I WENT TO COLLEGE WITH A WOMAN FROM TAIWAN.

SHE APPLIED REPEATEDLY TO GET INTO THIS COUNTRY LEGALLY, SHE COULD NEVER GET IN.

SHE DIED IN DECEMBER IN TAIWAN.

SHE NEVER COULD GET IN THE UNITED STATES AND I THINK THE THAT THE GARCIA CASE SHOWS US IF YOU BREAK THE RULES, YOU WIN, AND I DON'T THINK THAT'S FAIR.

>> THAT'S RIDICULOUS.

FIRST OF ALL, ALEX GARCIA IS A PHENOMENAL -- >> WHAT'S RIDICULOUS?

>> I HAPPEN TO HAVE HIS -- I DON'T FORGET THAT CORI BUSH FILED A PRIVATE BILL AND WHICH SHE'S GOING TO PURSUE ON HIS BEHALF BECAUSE HIS -- HE ISN'T FREED PERMANENTLY.

HE'S OUT AND THERE'S A LOT OF WORK TO DO THAT'S BEEN WONDERFUL WORK DONE -- >> HOW ABOUT THE QUESTION, THOUGH?

IS IT A GOOD SYSTEM?

>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S A GOOD SYSTEM, BUT IT'S A GOOD RESULT IN ALEX GARCIA IT CAP PI WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF THEY DIDN'T MAKE PA MOVIE ABOUT HIM.

HE CAME OVER IN 2006, THOUGHT HE WAS GOING TO HOUSTON, GOT OFF THE TRAIN AND HE WAS IN POPLAR BLUFF, MISSOURI, OF ALL PLACES, JUST BY ACCIDENT AND HE GOT TAKEN IN AND THE PEOPLE IN POPLAR BLUFF THAT VOTE LIKE 80% PRO TRUMP JUST FELL IN LOVE WITH THE GUY AND HE IS A HERO INS FOR FLAR BLUFF.

HE CAME HERE AND EVERYBODY HERE IS ENAMORED WITH HIM.

HE'S A BAD ONE TO PICK ON.

I THINK THE BROADER QUESTION, THERE'S A LOT OF KNEWANSES TO THE IMMIGRATION -- NUANCES TO THE IMMIGRATION PROBLEM, BUT IF YOU'RE REALLY SERIOUS ABOUT CRACKING DOWN ON ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, THERE'S A SIMPLE WAY TO DO IT, RELATIVELY SPEAKING, AND THAT IS TO PENALIZE THE COMPANIES THAT HIRE THEM.

WE'RE TALKING BEN FORCE TG LAWS, ENFORCE THE LAWS AGAINST PEOPLE WHO HIRE PEOPLE ILLEGALLY.

THAT WILL I WANT TO.

DON'T BLAKE THE POOR PEOPLE -- >> BUT RAY, YOU DIDN'T ANSWER CHARLIE'S QUESTION ABOUT HIS COLLEGE -- HIS COLLEGE FRIEND, LILLIAN CHANG.

>> WHAT ABOUT HER?

>> SHE APPLIED REPEATEDLY AND WAS REPEATEDLY DENIED.

SHE PLAYED BY THE RULES AND LOST.

>> WELL, IF I COULD JUST SAY A WORD ON THAT, CHARLIE, IN A COMPLETELY NEUTRAL WORLD, YOU WOULD HAVE A POINT.

BUT IN THE WORLD WE LIVE IN WHERE PEOPLE CAN COME ACROSS THE BORDER, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE SITUATIONS WHERE -- WE HAVE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE HERE NOW WHO ARE -- DIDN'T CROSS LEGALLY AND YOU CAN'T JUST THROW THEM ALL BACK.

>> RIGHT.

>> AND BRING IN YOUR FRIEND FROM TAIWAN.

I MEAN, IF SHE WERE STILL HERE.

IT JUST DOESN'T -- YOUR ARGUMENT JUST DOESN'T WORK, I'M AFRAID.

>> WHAT I'M SAYING, THOUGH, IS SHE'S NOT THE ONLY ONE.

THERE'S PEOPLE IN COUNTRIES ALL OVER THE WORLD WHO FILL OUT THE PAPERWORK AND ARE DENIED.

BY THE WAY, I'M FOR THE GARCIA FAMILY.

>> IT'S A SEPARATE ISSUE ABOUT LEGAL APOLOGIES COMING IN FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD -- LEGAL IMMIGRATION COMING IN FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD AND PEOPLE COMING IN FROM MEXICO AND CENTRAL AMERICA -- >> ILLEGALLY.

>> IT'S APPLES AND ORANGES, I THINK.

>> AND AGAIN, CHARLIE, THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST COMING -- FIRST OF ALL, IT'S AN OVERSTATED PROBLEM BECAUSE A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE ARE DOING JOBS THAT FRANKLY THE REASON THEY WERE ABLE TO COME HERE FOR THE ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY IS THE JOBS ARE HERE AND THEY AROUND BEING FILLED FOR WHATEVER -- THEY AREN'T BEING FILLED FOR WHATEVER REASON.

>> I AGREE WITH YOU THERE, I REALLY DO.

>> INSTEAD OF RAIDING THESE POOR PEOPLE IN MEATPACKING PLANTS, YOU PUT A COUPLE OF EXECUTIVES IN THE MEATPACKING PLANTS THAT HIRE THEM IN PRISON AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT WHAT'S JUST.

>> BUT LET ME SAY, I REMEMBER WRITING SOMETHING LIKE THAT ONCE AND SOMEBODY CALLED ME UP AND SAID, MR. McCLELLAN, IT'S EASY FOR A REPORTER TO SAY THAT THESE PEOPLE TAKING JOBS.

I'M A ROOFER.

SO I MEAN, IT'S EVEN MORE COMPLICATED THAN THAT.

>> WE NEED TO HAVE A BORDER, DON'T MISUNDERSTAND ME.

>> BUT RAY, TO BILL'S POINT, WHAT IF MEXICANS CAN HOST TALK RADIO SHOWS ON 550 AT A LOWER PRICE?

>> WHAT IF APOLOGIES DID A SWEEP -- WAIT A MINUTE.

WHAT IF IMMIGRATION DID A SWEEP ON ST. PATRICK'S DAY THROUGH BOSTON AND NEW YORK AND STARTED ASKING PEOPLE TO PROVE THEIR CITIZENSHIP?

OKAY?

>> THEY DID THAT FOUR YEARS AGO.

>> 40% OF HERE WITHOUT A VISA, WITHOUT ANYTHING, IT'S A WHOLE BUNCH AND NOBODY HAS ANY PROBLEM WITH THEM- >> NO, NO, I AGREE WITH YOU, BUT I DON'T THINK THOSE NUMBERS ARE STILL HERE, ALVIN.

I THINK YOU'RE TALKING 40, 50 YEARS AGO.

>> TO YOUR QUESTION, I HAD CHARLIE GARCIA ON MY SHOW MONDAY, TWO DAYS LATER, THEY LET ALEX OUT.

>> AND TONIGHT YOUR GUEST IS?

WHO'S YOUR BEST TONIGHT, RAY?

>> I GOT CARA SPENCER ON.

>> OKAY, WE SAY THAT GOOD THINGS HAPPEN TO GUESTS OF THE RAY HARTMANN SHOW.

>> I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT, BUT -- >> OKAY.

HEY, GUYS, I WILL BECAME THE FIRST STATE, WENDY, TO ELIMINATE -- ILLINOIS BECAME THE FIRST STATE, WENDY, TO ELIMINATE CASH BAIL.

IT DID A LOT MORE THAN THAT, IT REQUIRED BODY CAMS IN SEVEN YEARS FOR EVERY MUNICIPALITY, A 700-PAGE REPORT.

OVERALL, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

GOOD MOVE?

THUMBS UP, THUMBS DOWN?

>> I HOPE IT'S A GOOD MOVE BECAUSE IN GOVERNOR PRITZKER'S WORP, THIS IS THE FIRST TRUE STEP TO TRANSFORMING SYSTEMIC RACISM AND DOING AWAY WITH IT.

THAT'S A PRETTY TALL ORDER, I THINK, FOR ANY 700-PAGE REPORT OR ANY BILL.

THIS WON'T BE PUT INTO EFFECT UNTIL JANUARY OF 2023.

120,000 PEOPLE, THOUGH, SIGNED PETITIONS OPPOSING IT.

NEW YORK, NEW JERSEY, CALIFORNIA, THEY HAVE ALL ABOLISH BAIL, NOT TO THIS EXTENT, BUT NEW YORK HAS SEEN AN INCREASE IN VIOLENT CRIMES.

SO THERE ARE AS MANY QUESTIONS AS THERE ARE ANSWERS.

YOU JUST -- YOU HOPE IT DOES WHAT IT'S INTENDED TO DO.

BUT IF WE START TO SEE AN INCREASE IN THE ALREADY VIOLENT CHICAGO LANDSCAPE, I THINK PRITZKER IS TAKING A REAL POLITICAL RISK.

>> WELL, WENDY, WE HAVE -- AND I'VE ACTUALLY -- I'LL GET TO THIS POINT, BUT JUST FOR FUTURE ARGUMENT, WE HAVE PLENTY CASH BAIL THROUGHOUT HERE AND ST. LOUIS'S CRIME PROBLEM KEEPS ESCALATING, SO TO PUT THE TWO TOGETHER, I DISAGREE.

I'VE ARGUED HERE THAT, OKAY, IF YOU DO A CRIME, I FEEL HORRIBLE THAT IF YOU DON'T HAVE CASH BAIL, THAT YOU HAVE TO WAIT TWO YEARS AND ALL THIS TO EVEN GET A PRELIMINARY HEARING.

AT THE SAME TIME, I KIND OF FEEL LIKE THE SYSTEM IS, FOR YOU TO BE BACK ON THE STREET, MR. REED, YOU HAVE TO PUT DOWN 10% OF WHATEVER THIS BAIL ASSESSMENT IS, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.

AND I DON'T THINK THAT'S WHAT THE PROBLEM IS.

I JUST DON'T.

>> THAT'S NOT CASH BAIL.

FIRST OF ALL, YOU TALKING ABOUT ELIMINATING -- FOR ONE IS TALKING ABOUT ELIMINATING BAIL.

THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT ELIMINATING A SYSTEM THAT IS -- HAS ONE PURPOSE.

CASH BAIL HAS ONE PURPOSE AND THAT IS TO INCARCERATE POOR PEOPLE BEFORE THEIR TRIAL.

THAT'S ALL IT IS, AND PEOPLE OF ANY LEVEL OF MEANS AREN'T AFFECTED BY IT BECAUSE THEY -- IT'S SPECIFICALLY -- IT'S ONE OF THE REAL DISGRACES OF THE 21st CENTURY.

>> IT ISN'T A DISGRACE, RAY.

OFTEN WHEN PEOPLE GET ARRESTED, THEY NEED TO BE IN JAIL, AND I'D BE IN FAVOR MAYBE OF -- IF YOU DON'T LIKE RICH PEOPLE BONDING OUT, ELIMINATE THAT, BUT I THINK IT'S A -- >> YOU HAVE A SYSTEM THAT -- >> I THINK IT'S A MISTAKE -- >> -- SYSTEM THAT TREATS THEM LIKE THEY'RE GUILTY.

YOU'RE SAYING IF PEOPLE GET ARRESTED, THEY SHOULD SPEND TIME IN JAIL.

THAT'S NOT OUR SYSTEM.

>> IT DEPENDS ON WHAT THEY GET ARRESTED FOR.

IF THERE'S NO CASH BOND, MORE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE GETTING OUT THAT PROBABLY OUGHT TO STILL BE IN THERE.

>> BUT PEOPLE THAT GET ARRESTED FOR DRUG OFFENSES ARE GOING TO BE PUT INTO TREATMENT.

>> IT COULD HAVE SOME GOOD ASPECTS, BUT THE PROBLEMS IT WITH, I THINK, ARE THAT A JUDGE CAN'T KEEP A PERSON IN JAIL UNLESS THERE IS CLEAR AND CONVINCING EVIDENCE THAT THAT PERSON IS GOING TO COMMIT A CRIME AGAINST A SPECIFIC PERSON.

AND I THINK THAT'S TOO HIGH A STANDARD.

I ALSO THINK THAT IF YOU'RE REQUIRING BODY CAMERAS FOR EVERY MUNICIPALITY, BUT NOT FUNDING THEM, WHAT?

AND IF THE LAW ALSO SAYS IF YOU'RE A POLICE OFFICER, YOU DON'T WEAR YOUR BODY CAMERA, YOU CAN BE CHARGED WITH A FELONY?

THAT SEEMS A LITTLE BIT EXCESSIVE TO ME.

>> NO IT DOESN'T.

CHARLIE, IT'S JUST LIKE ANYTHING ELSE.

PEOPLE HAVE MONEY FOR WHAT THEY WANT TO BUY.

THE STATE SAID YOU HAVE TO FINANCE THIS AND IT WILL GET DONE.

THEN THAT'S WHAT YOU NEED, THE IMPETUS OF I DON'T WANT TO HEAR YOUR CAMERA WAS TURNED OFF.

I DON'T WANT TO HEAR A DEER RAN IF FRONT OF MY CAMERA WHEN I SHOT THIS GUY 57 TIMES.

JUST -- THAT'S NOT COMING TO FRUITION.

IT ALSO DOESN'T MEAN THAT -- >> CHARLIE -- >> WAIT.

IT SAYS YOU COULD BE CHARGED WITH A FELONY.

YOU PROBABLY WON'T, BUT YOU COULD BE.

>> WELL, IT'S -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE LAW SAYS -- >> BUT TO GET THIS CLEAR, CASH BAIL IS A SYSTEM THAT IS DESIGNED, A JUDICIAL SYSTEM THAT BASICALLY CHARGES YOU WITH A CRIME FOR BEING POOR.

AND IT'S ONE THING TO PROTECT SOCIETY FROM PEOPLE WHO ARE VIOLENT, WHO MIGHT BE A FLIGHT RISK, BUT THAT'S THE ONLY PURPOSE OF BAIL.

>> BUT RAY -- >> WHAT ABOUT VIOLENT PEOPLE, RAY?

>> VERY HIGH CASH BONDS ON PEOPLE, I JUST THINK THE IDEA OF CLOSING THE WORKHOUSE AND NO CASH BONDS AND LET MORE AND MORE PEOPLE, AND THEN THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT TURN AROUND AND SAY WE CAN'T GET PEOPLE TO TESTIFY IN CRIMINAL CASES BECAUSE THEY'RE AFRAID.

>> IT ISN'T BEING AFRAID -- >> [ ALL SPEAKING AT ONCE ] >> CASH BAIL ARE NOT DANGEROUS CRIMINALS.

THEY'RE PEOPLE THAT BROKE THE -- >> SOME OF THEM ARE, RAY!

SOME OF THEM ARE.

>> NO ONE IS SAYING NO ONE SHOULD EVER HAVE TO POST BAIL.

WHAT THEY'RE SAYING IS YOU DON'T HAVE A SYSTEM THAT AUTOMATICALLY INCARCERATES PEOPLE AND PRESUMES THEIR GUILT BECAUSE THEY'RE POOR.

MANY OF THEM NEED TO HAVE BAIL SET, BUT NOT ALL OF THEM AND RIGHT NOW, PEOPLE WHO AREN'T A DANGER, ROUTINELY ARE IMPRISONED WHILE THEY WAIT THEIR TRIAL BECAUSE THEY'RE POOR AND IT'S NOT RIGHT.

>> A FEW OF THEM ASSAULTED GUARDS THIS WEEK.

>> NO ONE IS SAYING NO BAIL FOR ANY POOR PERSON.

WHAT THEY'RE SAYING IS YOU DON'T AUTOMATICALLY GET INCARCERATED WHITE A TRIAL BECAUSE -- >> YOU KNOW, RAY, DOESN'T BAIL GIVE YOU AN INCENTIVE TO APPEAR IN COURT?

>> YES.

BUT THE POINT IS -- >> OKAY, WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO IS PUT THESE GUYS OUT WITH ANKLE BRACELETS AND WE'RE GOING TSH.

>> BUT CASH BAIL -- [ ALL SPEAKING AT ONCE ] >> WHO'S GOING TO MONITOR ALL THE ANKLE BRACELETS?

>> NOW YOU'RE READY FOR MORE JUDICIAL DISCRETION, LET THE JUDGE IS MAKE DECISIONS?

THE JUDGES LOOK AT THESE PEOPLE AND FIGURE OUT WHO THEY THINK IS A DANGER AND THEY CAN BUT A BIG BOND ON THEM OR A LITTLE BOND OR NO BOND AND TO TAKE AWAY THAT KIND OF DISCRETION -- >> THAT'S A GOOD POINT, WHICH REMINDS ME, LET'S MOVE ON TO ALVIN BECAUSE SPEAKING OF JUDGES, RICHARD CALLAHAN, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY IN THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF MISSOURI HAS APPOINTED AS A SPECIAL PROSECUTOR TO LOOK INTO THE McCLOSKEY CASE, WHEN THE McCLOSKEY COUPLE BRANDISHED WEAPONS OUTSIDE OF THEIR CENTRAL WEST END MANSION LAST SUMMER.

I DON'T HAVE TO REPEAT THAT STORY, YOU ALL KNOW ABOUT IT.

CALLAHAN, AS A JUDGE, HE QUIT THE BENCH AND NOW HE'S GOING TO BECOME A PROSECUTOR IN ST. LOUIS GEVENS THE McCLOSKEYS.

WHAT'S YOUR TAKE?

>> RIGHT MAN FOR THE RIGHT JOB.

SOMEHOW ASSUAGING BOTH COMMUNITY NOT ONLY IN ST. LOUIS, BUT ACROSS THE NATION.

I'D BASICALLY SAY, HEY, THEY'RE MY -- I'D WANT TO PROSECUTE THEM, YOUR HONOR, THEY BROKE THE LAW.

I THINK THE JUDGMENT HERE IS TO PLEASE GO AWAY AND STAY AWAY.

YOU KNOW -- I JUST -- I MEAN -- >> PERSONALLY, I THINK HE'S A VERY RESPECTED JUDGE AND AS A PROSECUTOR, I THINK HE'S A GOOD CHOICE AND I DON'T THINK HE SHOULD -- I'M WILLING TO ACCEPT THE IDEA THAT RICHARD CALLAHAN WILL MAKE A DECISION ABOUT WHETHER TO PROSECUTE -- BRING THIS TO TRIAL BASED ON THE MERITS AND UNLESS KIM GETS -- >> I DON'T KNOW, RAY, WITH ALL THAT RESPECT, WHY DID THE U.S.

ATTORNEYS QUIT AND THEY CAME BACK WHEN JEFF JENSEN TOOK OVER?

DON'T YOU REMEMBER THAT?

I ALSO THINK IN THIS CASE, TODAY ALSO IT WAS IN THE PAPER THAT THE CIRCUIT ATTORNEY ANNOUNCED THAT SHE WAS DROPPING CHARGES AGAINST THE GUY, ALLISON HAWK, HER SPOKESPERSON, WOULDN'T SAY WHY, SOME GUY ACCUSED OF KILLING TWO PEOPLE.

SO SHE'S NOT CHARGING THAT ONE, BUT SHE'S GOING AFTER THE McCLOSKEYS WHO, TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE, DIDN'T HURT ANYBODY, ALTHOUGH IT WAS PROVOCATIVE, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THEY BROKE THE LAW, BUT THAT'S WHERE OUR PROSECUTORIAL RESOURCES ARE GOING.

WE ARE GETTING A SPECIAL PROSECUTOR AGAINST THE McCLOSKEYS.

>> I THINK THEY DESERVE TO BE PROSECUTED.

>> WELL, WE'LL FIND OUT HOW THAT HAPPENS.

FINALLY, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, HOW ABOUT A MEASURE IN JEFFERSON CITY, ALVIN, THAT WOULD INCREASE THE PENALTY FOR PROTESTERS WHO BLOCK HIGHWAYS AND BYWAYS IN THE STATE ACTIOF MISSOURI?

>> OKAY, THE BEAUTY OF THE CHARGE AND WHAT MADE IT SUCCESSFUL THROUGHOUT THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT IN THE '60s, YOU ROLL WITH THE PUNCHES.

THEY SAID YOU CAN'T GET THREE.

THREE IS THE CHARM.

SO YOU ROTATE PEOPLE IN AND OUT AND DO WHAT YOU NEED TO DO TO GET DONE WHAT YOU 3D TO GET DONE.

BE SMART.

WHAT'S THE STAYING?

DON'T GET MAD, GET EVEN.

IF IT RACIALLY CHARGED?

ABSOLUTELY, BUT BEAT THEM AT THEIR OWN GAME AND JUST SMILE.

>> I KNOW YOU'RE ALL GOING TO JUMP ON THIS, BUT I THINK IF BILL EIGEL OF WELDON SPRINGS IS A-UP, HE'S TALKING ABOUT KEEPING PEOPLE SAFE.

THERE ARE INCREASED INCIDENTS ALL OVER SOCIAL MEDIA OF SILOED ANGRY PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES, DRIVING INTO THESE CROWDS, PROTESTERS BEING SERIOUSLY INJURED.

I THINK HE IS TRYING TO ERR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION.

THEY NEGOTIATED THEIR WAY THROUGH -- YOUR FIRST ONE IS BEING CALLED AN INFRACTION, THE SECOND ONE IS A MISDEMEANOR, THE THIRD ONE IS A FELONY AS YOU POINT ON IT, ALVIN.

I DO THINK THAT THERE IS PUBLIC SAFETY AT THE FORE HERE.

>> RIGHT.

BILL EIGEL IS TRYING TO ERR ON THE SIDE OF TRUMP, WHICH IS THE ONLY THING HE EVER ERRED ON THE SIDE OF, AND AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED -- >> YOU DON'T KNOW THAT, RAY.

YOU DON'T KNOW THAT.

>> BUT RAY, RAY -- >> HE'S AN UNSTUDY OF -- GOO IF THE STREET WAS BLOCKED IN FERGUSON AND I RAN OVER THE PEOPLE AND I GOT AWAY WITH IT, IT WOULD BE THE SAME AS IF A WHITE PERSON DID IT.

I MEAN -- >> NO ONE IS SAYING -- >> I WAS INCONVENIENCED.

>> DON'T FORGET, MOST OF THE PROTESTERS NOW MIGHT BE PROUD BOYS.

THEY MIGHT BE EMILY HERNANDEZ OF MISSOURI.

>> IF THE PROUD BOYS WANT TO DEMONSTRATE -- >> CLAEHARLIE, I'M GOING TO FIRE UP THE SKYLINE RIGHT NOW.

>> IF THE PROUD BOYS WANT TO DEMONSTRATE AND GET ARRESTED FOR CIVIL DISOWE BEAD DENSE -- >> THE ONLY PROBLEMS I USED TO HAVE WITH THEM BLOCK THE HIGHWAY WAS I ALWAYS WAS WAITING FOR THE AMBULANCE TO COME THAT COULDN'T GET THROUGH AND, YOU KNOW, WE HAD GOOD LUCK AND THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN HERE THAT I RECALL.

>> GOT TO TAKE A TIME OUT.

BILL, YOU'RE GOING TO BE THE LAST ONE BECAUSE THE CLOCK SAYS WE GOT TO HOLD OFF FOR NOW, BUT IN A MOMENT, JACK FISHMAN FROM SLU TALKING ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE.

I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO ENJOY THIS ONE VERY MUCH.

THAT'S NEXT ON NEXT UP.

>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.

>> WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.

WE'VE HAD AN UNUSUAL WINTER AND IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME, JUST CALL ANY TEXAN.

WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THE CLIMATE?

WELL, WE'RE SO LUCKY ON THIS EDITION OF NEXT UP TO WELCOME JACK FISHMAN, DR. FISHMAN IS THE DIRECTOR OF ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENCES AT ST. LOUIS UNIVERSITY.

JACK FISHMAN, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

HOW ARE YOU?

>> I'M DOING FINE.

I'M A LOT WARMER THAN I WAS LAST WEEK FOR SURE.

>> LAST WEEK I WAS GETTING PHONE CALLS ON THE KMOX WHINE LINE AS WE CALL IT, AND THEY SAID THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE GLOBAL WARMING.

THIS WAS LAST WEEK.

NOW, WHEN WE LOOK AT WEATHER IN TEXAS, THE LIKES OF WHICH WE SAW LAST WEEK, IS THERE A SCIENTIFIC EXPLANATION FOR THIS?

IS IT PART OF THE INCREASED CARBON DIOXIDE IN THE ATMOSPHERE WHICH IS CREATING CLIMATIC CHANGE?

>> DO YOU WANT THE SHORT ANSWER OR DO YOU WANT TO TAKE A THREE-HOUR COURSE?

>> HOW ABOUT THE EXECUTIVE SUMMARY?

>> OKAY, SO WEATHER IS CHANGING BECAUSE OF CLIMATE CHANGE.

THE SIMPLEST ANSWER AFTER LAST WEEK IS WE GOT BOMBARDED BY A STRONG JET STREAM FROM THE DUE NORTH.

YOU'VE HEARD THINGS ABOUT THE POLAR VORTEX BREAKING DOWN, BUT I GOT TO GIVE YOU A TWO-MINUTE TUTORIAL ON SOMETHING CALLED THE GENERAL CIRCULATION OF ATMOSPHERE.

SO OUR PLANET SPINS, YOU KNOW THAT.

AND THE OTHER THING THAT HAPPENS IS THE -- MORE HEAT IS RECEIVED AT THE LOW LATITUDES AND HIGH LATITUDES AND BECAUSE OF THAT, YOU FORM THIS THING CALLED THE JET STREAM AND IT BALANCES THE MOMENTUM OF A SPINNING OBJECT AND THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE HEATING THAT'S OCCURRING, SO HOW YOU GOT TO TRANSFER THAT HEAT FROM THE LOW LATITUDES UP TO THE HIGH LATITUDES AND THE RESULT OF THAT IS YOU FORM THE JET STREAM.

EVERYBODY HAS HEARD OF THE JEERGETION RIGHT?

IT'S THAT RIBBON OF AREA AT 30, 40,000 FEET.

IT GENERALLY GOES FROM WEST TO EAST, BUT IT HAS WAVES IT IN AND THE WAVINESS VARIES FROM TIME TO TIME AND SO WHAT'S HAPPENING BECAUSE OF CLIMATE CHANGE IS THAT WE KNOW THE PLANET IS WARMING, THE DATA INDICATES THAT.

BUT IT'S NOT WARMING IN UNIFORMLY.

IT'S WARMING MORE AT THE HIGHER LATITUDES THAN THE LOWER LATITU LATITUDES.

THE HIGHER LATITUDES SHOULD BE COLDER, BUT THEY'RE NOT AS COLD, THE TEMPERATURE GRADIENT IS NOT AS GREAT AS IT WAS BEFORE CLIMATE CHANGE.

THE STRENGTH OF THE JET STREAM IS DEPENDENT ON THAT GRADIENT, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE HIGH LATITUDES AND THE LOW LATITUDES, AND WHAT'S HAPPENING BASICALLY BECAUSE THE GRADIENT IS DECREASED, THE JET STREAM HAS SLOWED DOWN.

BECAUSE IT'S SLOWED DOWN, AS THE DATA SHOWS THAT IT'S SLOWED DOWN PRECIPITOUSLY OVER THE LAST SEVERAL DECADES, I WANT MORE SUBJECT TO FORM IS -- IT'S MORE SUBJECT TO FORMING THESE BIG WAVES IN THE ATMOSPHERE.

THAT'S HOW CLIMATE CHANGE IS AFFECTING WEATHER PATTERNS AND SOMETIMES THOSE PATTERNS UNFORTUNATELY HAVE BEEN VERY COLD AIR FROM THE HIGH LATITUDES INTO THE U.S.

I BET YOU A NICKEL RIGHT NOW THAT THERE'S OTHER AREAS IN THE LATITUDES THAT ARE END ENJOYING VERY WARM TEMPERATURES, BUT YOU ARE SUBJECT TO THESE LARGE FLUCTUATIONS AND UNDULATIONS IN THE JET STREAM THAT CAUSE THESE COLD OUTBREAKS THAT WE'VE SEEN.

ACTUALLY, LOOKING AT THE DATA, THERE HAVE BEEN SEVERAL OF THEM THE PAST FIVE OR SIX YEARS.

>> HAVE THERE BEEN EXTREMES LIKE THIS, DR. FISHMAN, BEYOND THE FAST FIVE OR SIX YEARS?

AND WHAT IS YOU JUST OUTLINED FOR US THE EXPLANATION BETWEEN THE DIFFERENCE IN THE EXTREMES OF YESTERYEAR AND WHAT WE SAW LAST WEEK?

>> WELL, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION, OKAY?

AND IT'S -- OF COURSE, IT'S NOT A SIMPLE ANSWER BECAUSE WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT CLIMATE, YOU GOT TO TALK ABOUT STATISTICS.

SO STATISTICALLY, WE'RE GOING TO BE SUBJECT TO THESE BIGGER EXTREMES.

WHETHER OR NOT THEY ALL LINE UP TOGETHER TO MAKE IT REALLY EXTREME MORE THAN WE SAW THIS PAST FEBRUARY IN TEXAS, IT PROBABLY CAN HAPPEN IN THE PAST, BUT BECAUSE OF THIS JET STREAM BEING SLOWED DOWN AND BEING WAVER, YOU'RE GOING TO BE MORE PRONE TO THESE KINDS OF ARCTIC OUTBREAKS, JUST LIKE YOU'RE MORE PRONE TO VERY EXTREME TEMPERATURES.

SO CLIMATE CHANGE, UNFORTUNATELY, DOESN'T JUST COME WARMING.

YOU GET MORE STREAMING WARM, MORE EXTREME COLD WEATHER, MORE EXTREME PRECIPITATION.

YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE MORE FREQUENT HURRICANES LIKELY, STRONGER HURRICANES, BUT ALL THIS YOU REALLY CAN'T JUDGE JUST BY LOOKING AT ONE OR TWO SCENARIOS.

YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT SOME KIND OF LONG-TERM AVERAGE.

METEOROLOGICALLY, WE LOOK AT 30-YEAR AVERAGES TO SAY WHAT'S NORMAL.

>> BILL.

>> DR. FISHMAN, HOW CAN YOU CONVINCE PEOPLE THAT THERE'S SOMETHING TO BE DONE?

I MEAN, YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO THINK IT'S TOO LATE, AND YOU HAVE ANOTHER WHOLE BUNCH OF PEOPLE WHO THINK THIS IS ALL MALARKEY, THE EARTH CHANGES REGARDLESS OF PEOPLE.

HOW CAN YOU CONVINCE PEOPLE THAT WE CAN DO SOMETHING?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I GOT TO STOP LISTENING TO THE MALARKEY, OKAY?

THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF ALTERNATE FACTS OUT THERE.

AS A MATTER OF FACT, IN MY CLASS TODAY T I JUST SHOWED A CONFERENCE FROM 2015.

JUNIOR -- EVERY YEAR, THE HEARTLAND INSTITUTE PUTS ON AN INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE THAT HIGHLIGHTS ALL THIS FALSE INFORMATION THAT GETS OUT THERE.

THERE'S A VERY, VERY CONCERTED EFFORT TO PUT OUT A LOT OF MISINFORMATION AND FOR THOSE OF YOU INTERESTED, I SUGGEST YOU READ A BOOK CALLED THE MERCHANTS OF DOUBT.

IT'S AN INTERESTING BOOK THAT WAS WRITTEN BY A LADY, SHE'S A PROFESSOR AT HARVARD UNIVERSITY, NAOMI ZAKAS, I THINK IS HOW YOU PRONOUNCE HER NAME, AND IT'S INTERESTING.

SHE FOLLOWS THE SAME GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT ARE FIGHTING AGAINST CLIMATE CHANGE, THE SAME GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT I SHOWED IN MY CLASS TODAY THAT MEET ONCE A YEAR, THEY'RE THE SAME PEOPLE THAT TALK ABOUT SMOKING NOT BEING HARMFUL TO YOUR HEALTH AND TALKING ABOUT THE DISAPPEARANCE OF THE OZONE LAYER.

IT'S HARD TO TELL WHY PEOPLE AREN'T MOTIVATED.

OBVIOUSLY THE OIL INDUSTRY IS NOT MOTIVATED TO DECREASE OIL PRODUCTION.

BACK IN THE '70s, THE CIGARETTE MAKERS DIDN'T WANT TO SIGH CIGARETTE SMOKE AS HARMFUL TO YOUR HEALTH.

WE FIRST HAVE TO STOP LISTENING TO THIS KIND OF STUFF AND UNFORTUNATELY, THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE SAYING THIS STUFF.

I FORGET THE SECOND PART OF YOUR QUESTION.

>> IT WAS HOW YOU CAN CONVINCE PEOPLE THAT THERE'S A GROUP WHO DON'T BELIEVE THAT THERE'S ANYTHING TO THIS, AND THEN THERE'S A GROUP WHO THINK IT'S JUST GONE TOO FAR, IT'S TOO LATE, WHAT CAN WE DO NOW.

HOW DO YOU CONVINCE US THAT THERE'S SOMETHING TO BE DONE?

>> YEAH, WHAT'S THAT OLD SAYING I'VE HEARD ON TV RECENTLY?

THE BEST TIME TO PLANT A TREE IS 20 YEARS AGO, AND THE SECOND BEST TIME IS NOW.

RIGHT NOW, WE GOT TO DO WHAT WE CAN DO AND THE U.S.

TAKING A LEADERSHIP ROLE AS OPPOSED TO A DENIAL ROLE WHICH WAS REALLY SORT OF EMBARRASSING COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE WORLD.

THE WORLD'S ON BOARD, OKAY?

WE KNOW SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE.

BILL, I DON'T KNOW IF -- HOW FAR CAN WE GO BEFORE IT'S TOO FAR?

I DON'T KNOW, OKAY?

>> DR. FISHMAN, THIS IS REALLY A PART OF AN ISSUE.

THERE'S JUST NO DENYING IT AND YOU REFERRED TO PARIS.

WHEN DONALD TRUMP PULLED THE U.S. OUT OF PARIS, HE WAS WIDELY PRAISED IN MISSOURI BY THE CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATION AND IN KANSAS AND SO FORTH, THE RED STATE POLITICIANS.

RIGHT NOW JOE BIDEN HAS PUT US BACK IN AND IT'S JUST THE OPPOSITE.

WE CAN'T PRETEND -- MAYBE THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS, BUT CERTAINLY MISSOURI'S ENTIRE CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATION, INCLUDING THE SENATORS, HAVE CONSISTENTLY VOTED AGAINST CLIMATE CHANGE.

>> AND THEY'RE BEING MISLED.

I MEAN, THAT'S ALL I CAN TELL YOU.

>> THEY ARE, YOU MEAN.

THEY'RE BEING -- >> WELL, YEAH.

LET ME TELL YOU A SIDE STORY.

I DON'T KNOW HOW RELEVANT IT IS, BUT EVERY YEAR, I AND MY SON GO TO WASHINGTON, D.C., AND WE ADVOCATE ON BEHALF OF THE RIGHTS FOR THE DISABLED.

TWO YEARS AGO WAS THE FIRST TIME WE MET SENATOR HAWLEY AND HE'S VERY PLEASANT AND NICE TO TALK TO AND MET WITH HIS STAFF, BUT ON MY WAY OUT OF HIS OFFICE, I SAW THE BOOKS IN HIS PAMPHLET, THE SAME ONE I'M TEACHING ABOUT TODAY, WHICH IS FULL OF MISINFORMATION.

THERE'S SUCH A CONCERTED EFFORT ON THE PART OF THE KOCH BROTHERS, THE HEARTLAND INSTITUTE TO PUT OUT THIS INFORMATION THAT REALLY LOOKS REAL.

IF YOU PUT THIS DOCUMENT NEXT TO WHAT IS PUT OUT BY THE ITCC, THE INTERNATIONAL PANEL FOR CLIMATE CHANGE, THEY LOOK ALMOST IDENTICAL AND YOU START READING THEM, AND AS A NONSCIENTIST, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT TO BELIEVE AND WHAT NOT TO BELIEVE.

AND THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE, LIKE I SAY, READ THE BOOK MERCHANTS OF DOUBT.

ACTUALLY, THERE'S A MOVIE THAT THEY MADE INTO IT, AND YOU CAN SEE WHAT A CONCERTED EFFORT IT IS.

SO I -- GO ON.

>> WHERE I WAS GOING WITH THAT IS DO YOU WORRY THAT -- BECAUSE MISSOURI, I MEAN, WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, RED STATE, WE'VE HAD REPUBLICAN DOMINANCE AS THEY DO IN TEXAS.

ARE YOU CONCERNED THAT THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED IN TEXAS WHERE THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE WHO DENY CLIMATE CHANGE COULD HAPPEN HERE BECAUSE OF THAT OR DO YOU THINK IT'S JUST A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT FACTORS?

>> SO WHAT DO WE NEED TO SEE YOU THAT IT'S HAPPENING?

TEXAS WAS A GOOD EXAMPLE.

THE FIRES IN CALIFORNIA IS A GOOD EXAMPLE.

HE FOR 32 YEARS WAS ON THE EAST COAST OF THE U.S. AND WE SAW MORE AND MORE HURRICANES HITTING NORTH CAROLINA AND PEOPLE GO OUT AND THEY START REBUILDING THOSE HOMES ON THE BEACHFRONT PROPERTY.

IT'S BEAUTIFUL ON THE BEACH.

HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU HAVE TO LOSE YOUR HOUSE BEFORE YOU SAY, WELL, SOMETHING'S GOT TO BE DONE?

MAYBE THIS ISN'T THE WISEST THING TO DO.

IN MIAMI, YOU SEE THESE THINGS CALLED KING TIDES IN CLEAR WEATHER WHERE YOU'RE FIGHTING OFF WATER ON THE STREETS, SO HOW MUCH MORE DO YOU NEED TO SEE TO BE CONVINCED THAT SOMETHING IS HAPPENING ON THIS PLANET?

I'M NOT TALKING TO YOU PERSONALLY, BUT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO -- WE HAVE TO RESOLVE TO DO SOMETHING.

DOING NOTHING IS NOT A GOOD ANSWER.

>> DOCTOR, YOU MENTIONED SEVERAL CATEGORIES THERE.

AND BY THE WAY, I TOOK METEOROLOGY AS MY LAB SCIENCE IN COLLEGE AND I THINK I GOT A VERY PROUD B- IN IT, BUT I REALLY LIKED IT.

>> SOUNDS LIKE MY COLLEGE CAREER.

GO ON.

>> LIKE I SAD, IT'S THE HEARTLAND INSTITUTE, I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

WE LIVE IN THE HEARTLAND, OKAY?

AND WATERS RISING AND HURRICANES AND WE HAVE TORNADOES, BUT WHAT IS OUR -- IN THE FUTURE, WHAT IS OUR BIGGEST CONCERN?

OBVIOUSLY THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER GOES BY.

IF IT SWELLS, AND STAYS SWELLED, IT CHANGES US.

IF IT HAS ICEBERGS FLOATING DOWN IT, THAT CHANGES US, BUT IF YOU HAD TO SAY MIDDLE OF THE UNITED STATES, THESE ARE YOUR BIGGEST CONCERNS WITH GLOBAL WARMING.

>> THERE'S FOCUS ON ST. LOUIS.

>> YEAH, OKAY.

>> WE'RE GOING TO SEE BIGGER FLOODS.

I MEAN, BECAUSE WE HAVE MORE EXTREME WEATHER EVENTS, THERE'S GOING TO BE A TIME WHEN THE FLOOD OF 1993 IS GOING TO BE SECOND PLACE AND IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN, OKAY?

AND UNFORTUNATELY -- PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO PREPARE FOR IT.

I'M NOT AN ENGINEER, I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY HOW YOU TAKE ALL THIS WATER AND CHANNEL IT IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, BUT I DON'T KNOW.

THE OTHER THING THAT IS HAPPENING THAT IS OF INTEREST TO ME IS THAT CROP YIELDS ARE FALLING BECAUSE OF BACKGROUND POLLUTION.

IT'S AN AREA OF RESEARCH I STARTED WHEN I WAS AT NASA FOR -- TEN YEARS AGO.

AND WE'RE SEEING CROP YIELDS DIMINISH FOR CROPS BECAUSE OF POLLUTION IS MORE THAN IT IS NOW AND WE CAN SHOW THAT BECAUSE OF THE PRESENT CONCENTRATIONS OF OZONE IN THE ATMOSPHERE AND THE BACKGROUND ATMOSPHERE, NOT JUST THE CITIES, WE'RE LOSING 10% OF OUR YIELD FOR A VERY IMPORTANT CROP IN MISSOURI, SOYBEANS IN PARTICULAR.

THAT'S A 50, $60 BILLION A YEAR CROP, SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT GOING INTO THE AGRICULTURAL BUSINESS ASPECT OF IT, LOSING 4 OR $5 BILLION A YEAR AND THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS.

HOW MUCH DO YOU WANT TO LOSE BEFORE YOU START DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT?

>> WHAT ABOUT COUNTRIES LIKE CHINA?

LET'S SAY IF THE UNITED STATES DID ADOPT ALL THE APPROPRIATE MEASURES, BUT THERE WASN'T THAT MUCH IMPROVEMENT IN CHINA, WHERE WOULD THE WORLD BE THEN, DOCTOR?

>> CHINA HAS AN AMBITIOUS PLAN TO REDUCE POLLUTION, OKAY?

THEY HAVE A VERY STRICT FIVE-YEAR PLAN TO -- THEY REALIZE -- IT'S KILLING THEIR PEOPLE.

CHINA, BECAUSE OF THE EXTREME LEVELS OF AIR POLLUTION YOU SEE IN SOME OF THESE MAJOR CITIES, I'VE NEVER BEEN TO CHINA, BUT I'VE SEEN PICTURES AND HEARD PEOPLE TALK ABOUT GOING AND THEY CAN'T BREATHE, THEY LOOK IN CHINA AS A HEALTH EFFECT AS MUCH AS GLOBAL WARMING, SO THEY'VE GOT AN AMBITIOUS PLAN TO REDUCE THEIR EMISSIONS.

SO, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO -- AND IT WOULD BE NICE TO SEE THE U.S. LEAD THE REST OF THE WORLD AND DEVELOP A PLAN.

THE EUROPEANS, THE CHINESE ARE MAKING STRONG EFFORTS TO TRY TO REDUCE THEIR EMISSIONS, AND AGAIN, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T TURN AROUND THE TITANIC IN YOUR BACKYARD, BUT YOU GOT TO -- IT'S A -- I GUESS TO BILL'S QUESTION, HOW MUCH IS TOO MUCH BEFORE WE DO SOMETHING?

AND I USE A QUOTE FROM GRETA THUNBERG, THE YOUNG LADY THAT GOES AROUND CAMPAIGNING, SHE WAS ASKED BY TREVOR NOAH ON THE DAILY SHOW, WHAT THE MESSAGE YOU TRY TO GET OUT TO PEOPLE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE?

SHE SAYS WE HAVE TO EDUCATE OURSELVES WHAT THE PROBLEMS ARE BEFORE WE CAN START SOLVING THEM.

I FIGURE BY MY TEACHING A COURSE AT ST. LOUIS UNIVERSITY, I ORGANIZED A CONFERENCE A FULL YEARS AGO, I DO MY LITTLE BIT TO TRY TO EDUCATE THE POPULATION.

THEY WANT START WITH THAT AND TAKE ACTION.

>> I THINK WHAT THE PANDEMIC HAS TAUGHT -- IF THE PANDEMIC HAS TAUGHT EACH OF US ANYTHING, IT'S TAUGHT US THAT WE REALLY HAVE -- WE HAVE MORE POWER THAN WE THINK WE DO WHEN IT COMES TO MAKING A DIFFERENCE AND DOING THE LITTLE BITTY THINGS THAT CAN MITIGATE THE SPREAD OF A PANDEMIC OR, YOU KNOW, THAT CAN HAVE AN IMPACT ON CLIMATE CHANGE.

WHAT DO YOU DO, DR. FISHMAN?

OBVIOUSLY, YOU ARE AWARE OF ALL THE THINGS WE CAN DO TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

WHAT DO YOU DO IN YOUR OWN FAMILY THAT WE COULD ALSO IMPLEMENT?

>> WELL, WE HAVE L.E.D.

LIGHT BULBS.

I HAVE A COUPLE LAMPS ON RIGHT NOW.

THAT'S A REALLY GOOD WAY TO SAVE ENERGY.

I BOUGHT AN ELECTRIC CAR FOUR YEARS AGO -- NO, FIVE YEARS AGO.

IT'S WONDERFUL.

I MEAN, EVERYBODY SHOULD BUY AN ELECTRIC CAR.

IT REALLY DIDN'T COST -- WITH THE REBATES I GOT, IT'S NOT THAT MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE.

IT MAY BE EVEN CHEAPER -- I'M SURE IT'S CHEAPER IN THE LONG RUN, BUT IT'S GREAT NOT TO HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT FILLING UP GAS.

IT'S GREAT NOT TO WORRY ABOUT OIL CHANGES AND LUBRICATION AND THERE'S NO AIR POLLUTION CONTROLS, THERE'S NO TRANS POLITICI MISSION, THERE'S NO RADIATOR.

I WOULD SAY WITHIN EIGHT, NINE YEARS, IN THE 2030 TIMEFRAME, MOST THE CARS THAT WE WILL BE DRIVING WILL BE ELECTRIC, OKAY?

WE'RE FORTUNATE ENOUGH THAT WE CAN AFFORD TWO CARS, SO FOR LONGER TRIPS, WE CAN USE A GASOLINE-POWERED CAR, BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION REALIZING THAT WE NEED THE INFRASTRUCTURE TO KEEP THESE ELECTRIC CARS OPERATIONAL AND MAKE THEM CONVENIENT FOR EVERYBODY, THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO, AND LIKE I SAID, TRY TO TEACH A LITTLE BIT ABOUT IT.

>> DOCTOR, LOOKING ON THE INTERNET FOR ST. LOUIS AND YOU AND POLLUTION, GLOBAL WARMING, I CAME ACROSS SOMETHING CALLED OZONE GARDENS.

>> YES.

>> WE HAVE TWO OZONE GARDENS IN THE REGION, ONE AT THE SCIENCE CENTER, ONE AT HARRIS-STOWE.

YOU KNOW WHAT THOSE ARE?

>> YEAH, I HOPE SO BECAUSE I BUILT THEM.

SO THAT WAS A PROJECT I BROUGHT WITH ME TO ST. LOUIS U THAT STARTED IN 2012.

IT HAS NOW ENDED, BUT BETWEEN 2012 AND 2018, WE ACTUALLY ENDED UP ABOUT 15 OZONE GARDEN AROUND THE COUNTRY, ONE ACTUALLY IN EUROPE.

BASICALLY IT'S TRYING TO SHOW WHAT I WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT BEFORE.

WE CAN ACTUALLY SEE VISUAL DAMAGE OF BACKGROUND OZONE CONCENTRATIONS TO CERTAIN PLANTS.

THERE'S CERTAIN PLANTS THAT ARE INDICATORS AND BY HAVING OZONE CONCENTRATIONS ABOVE 40 PARTS PER BILLION, THE HEALTH STANDARD IS 70 PARTS PER BILLION, AND THERE ARE CERTAIN SPECIES THAT ARE SENSITIVE AND YOU CAN SEE THEM IN THE GARDEN.

UNFORTUNATELY, THERE'S NO MORE OZONE GARDENS IN THE ST. LOUIS AREA, MY FUNDING HAS RUN OUT, BUT IT'S BEING TAKEN ON BY A YOUNG LADY IN BOULDER, COLORADO, AND SOME OTHER AREAS WHERE THERE'S SOME GARDENS BEING BUILT AROUND THE COUNTRY STILL.

>> DOCTOR, YOU TALK ABOUT SOYBEANS AND YOUR WORK, AND AGAIN, NOT TO GET TO THE POLITICAL SIDE, BUT IN OPPOSITION OF THE POLITICAL SIDE, ARE PEOPLE -- WE HAVE THIS UNFORTUNATE DIVIDE BETWEEN RURAL AND URBAN MISSOURI AND I THINK WE ALL WISH WASN'T THERE.

ARE YOU A -- IS PART OF YOUR EDUCATIONAL EFFORT TO, IN THE AGRICULTURAL INDUSTRY, TO EDUCATE FARMERS AND OTHERS WHO ARE SO CRITICAL TO OUR ECONOMY ABOUT THIS -- ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE?

BECAUSE AGAIN, THEY ARE, LIKE IT OR NOT, PART OF THE SILO THAT'S HEARING OTHER INFORMATION.

>> WE HAVE TO LEARN.

I MEAN, I -- YOU KNOW, IT'S THE NEXT GENERATION THAT I'M DOING WHAT I CAN AT THIS POINT, BUT, YOU KNOW, I ALREADY RETIRED FROM ONE CAREER AND I REALLY ENJOY BEING AT ST. LOUIS U, BUT THE NEXT GENERATION HAS TO TAKE IT OVER.

I GREW UP IN MISSOURI AND MY WIFE AND I LEFT THE AREA FOR 35 YEARS AND WE REALLY SAW A BIG TRANSFORMATION IN THE POLITICAL BACKGROUND.

WHEN I LEFT, WE HAD STEWART SIMON AND TOM EAGLETON AND WE CAME BACK AND THE LANDSCAPE OF THE STATE HAS REALLY CHANGED.

LIKE I SAID BEFORE, I DID GO DOWN TO -- GO TO WASHINGTON A COUPLE YEARS AGO AND SAW THAT BOOK THAT WAS IN JOSH HAWLEY'S STAFF'S OFFICE AND I DID WRITE TO HIM A COUPLE TIMES.

THERE IS A REPUBLICAN CAUCUS BEING FORMED IN THE LOUSE AND RIGHT OF WAY HIM BIT AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT CAN ALSO BE DONE IN THE SENATE.

A REPUBLICAN CAUCUS THAT TS SENSITIVE TO THE CLIMATE ISSUE AND KNOWS THAT IT'S AN IMPORTANT ISSUE.

AGAIN, YOU'RE SEEING THESE KINDS OF DISASTERS IN RED STATES LIKE TEXAS AND OTHER PLACES.

CALIFORNIA IS NOT A RED STATE, BUT ANYWAY, YOU KNOW, IT CERTAINLY IS INDICATIVE OF THE KIND OF ISSUES WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO FACE IN THE FUTURE IN MANY PLACES ARE FACING ALREADY.

SO WE HAVE TO MAYBE START A GRASSROOTS EFFORT, I DON'T KNOW.

>> DOCTOR, YOU MENTIONED LIKE ELECTRIC CARS AND THEN THE INFRASTRUCTURE, YOU KNOW, SO YOU CAN GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B. I'M SEEING MORE AND MORE ADVERTISEMENTS THAT THE MAJOR, YOU KNOW, VEHICLE MAKERS ARE GOING TO INTRODUCE MORE CARS AND SEEM TO BE, YOU KNOW, ON BOARD JUST LIKE I HAD NEVER RECYCLED UNTIL I LIVED ON THE EAST COAST IN THE WASHINGTON, D.C., AREA IN THE '90s.

AND I'M -- I RECYCLE NOW.

ARE YOU FEELING THAT THERE'S ENOUGH MOMENTUM THAT IT'S REALLY GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE, LIKE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THE NEXT DECADE TO 15 YEARS?

OR LONGER THAN THAT?

ARE WE LOOKING AT WAY IN THE FUTURE?

>> NO, IT'S STARTING.

THESE KINDS OF MOVEMENTS DON'T HAPPEN OVERNIGHT.

THE LITTLE TOWN I LIVED IN VIRGINIA FOR THREE YEARS, THEY HAD A PROGRAM FOR RECYCLING CALLED PAY AS YOU THROW, AND BASICALLY, EVERY BAG OF TRASH YOU THREW AWAY, YOU HAD TO PAY FOR AND BASICALLY PUT THEM IN THESE GREEN BAGS AND IT COST YOU 1.75 FOR EACH BAG AND RECYCLING WAS FREE.

IT WAS A BIG INCENTIVE TO RECYCLE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE AND IT WAS ONLY A SMALL TOWN OF ABOUT 10,000 PEOPLE, BUT THOSE KINDS OF EFFORTS CAN GO ON.

WE SEE RECYCLING IN CERTAIN AREAS, OKAY?

THERE'S CERTAIN CITIES IN THE COUNTY CERTAINLY THAT STRESS RECYCLING MORE THAN OTHERS.

I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY -- THE CITY DOESN'T SEEM TO BE AS IN TUNE AS SOME OF THE OTHER MUNICIPALITIES.

>> DOCTOR, SPEAKING ABOUT -- GO AHEAD, I'M SORRY, ALVIN.

>> WHAT TOWN DID YOU LIVE IN, DOCTOR?

IN VIRGINIA.

>> IT WAS CALLED POTOSON IN VIRGINIA.

IT WAS AN OLD FISHING VILLAGE.

I WORKED AT A NASA RESEARCH CENTER THAT FOR ONE HAD EVER HEARD OF UNTIL THE MOVIE HIDDEN FIGURES.

PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE IT.

>> I LIVED IN VIENNA, VIRGINIA.

THAT WAS CLOSER TO D.C. >> I WORKED AT LANGLEY AND THEY ALL THOUGHT TI WORKED AT -- IT WAS IN HAMPTON, VIRGINIA.

>> OH, I'M SORRY, GUYS.

>> FLO, THAT'S GREAT.

I HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE FARMERS OUT THERE.

DO YOU BELIEVE OUR FARMERS WHO MIGHT BE WATCHING FROM ILLINOIS OR MISSOURI ARE POSSIBLY IN THE FUTURE GOING TO LOSE THE ABILITY TO FARM IN THIS AREA?

WE HEAR IN THERE MIGHT BE LANDS THAT ARE ARABLE NOW THAT WON'T BE SUITABLE FOR FARMING IN SOME COUNTRIES, PERHAPS IN AFRICA IF THE CLIMATE CONTINUES TO CHANGE.

IS THAT A THREAT FOR PEOPLE WHO MIGHT BE VIEWING THIS PROGRAM?

>> SO, OKAY, I'VE DONE RESEARCH ON SOYBEANS.

HOW ABOUT THAT FOR AN EXCITING SUBJECT?

BUT ANYWAY, LET'S LOOK AT THE DATA BECAUSE THESE FARM STATISTICS GO BACK TO THE '60s AND '70s, AND YOU CAN CERTAINLY SEE FOR SOYBEANS, JUST ONE CROP, THE SHIFT NORTHWARD, OKAY?

IF YOU LOOK AT THE DATA '60s AND '70s, SOYBEANS WERE CONFINED TO ILLINOIS AND IOWA.

NOW YOU SEE MINNESOTA AND MEMBER BECAUSE CLIMATIC REGIONS ARE SHIFTS.

WHAT'S GOOD FOR ONE MAY NOT BE GOOD FOR THE OTHER, BUT FOR THE FARMING COMMUNITY, I'M SURE THEY'RE VERY MUCH AWARE OF THIS AND PRECISION FARMING AND ROTATING CROPS PROPERLY AND -- WE'RE A PRETTY ROBUST CIVILIZATION HERE IN THE U.S., ESPECIALLY THE FARMING COMMUNITY, AND I'M PRETTY SURE THEY'LL FIND A WAY TO SURVIVE, BUT YOU DO HAVE TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT, CLIMATE IS CHANGING AND CERTAIN PLANTS THAT GROW HERE WON'T GROW HERE.

AND OTHERS THAT WILL GROW IN OTHER PLACES WILL GROW HERE.

SO THAT'S WHAT I THINK HAS TO HAPPEN, CHARLIE.

>> MOST PEOPLE ARE AWARE OF THE FACT THAT GLOBAL WARMING HAS TO DO WITH THE WARMING OF THE OCEAN TEMPERATURE, CORRECT, DR. FISHMAN?

>> YES.

>> AND YET, AS CHARLIE POINTED OUT EARLIER, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO REACT QUITE LITERALLY WHEN WE HAVE THESE SUBZERO DANGEROUS ARCTIC POLAR VORTEXES, THEY THINK THAT, OH, WELL THERE'S YOUR GLOBAL WARMING.

IS THERE ANY WAY THAT WE COULD START -- I MEAN, GOING FORWARD, WORDS MATTER, IF WE WOULD JUST USE CLIMATE CHANGE INSTEAD OF GLOBAL WARMING?

BECAUSE IT HAS -- IT'S BEEN AN IMPEDIMENT, I'M AFRAID.

>> YEAH, THAT'S -- TO GO ALONG WITH YOUR FIRST QUESTION, TALKING ABOUT OCEAN WARMING, ABOUT 93% OF ALL THE WARMING OF THE PLANET IS STILL IN THE OCEAN, OKAY?

SO WHAT WE SEE IN THE ATMOSPHERE IS ONLY ABOUT 7, 10% OF WHERE THE WARMING IS TAKING PLACE.

SO JUST LIKE A BATHTUB, YOU KNOW, YOU STOP WARMING, IT'S GOING TO STAY WARMER LONGER.

THAT'S WHY EVEN IF YOU STOPPED ALL EMISSIONS TOMORROW, YOU'RE STILL GOING TO HAVE ALL THIS HEAT THAT'S IN THE OCEAN, EMITTING THE HEAT.

AND I FORGOT THE SECOND PART OF YOUR QUESTION.

>> TALK ABOUT USING CLIMATE CHANGE EXCLUSIVELY INSTEAD OF GLOBAL WARMING BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T SEE THE CONNECTION BETWEEN A POLAR VORTEX BECAUSE IT'S COLD AND GLOBAL WARMING BECAUSE IT'S WARM.

>> THEY'RE THE SAME.

I MEAN -- >> YEAH, EXACTLY.

>> WE ARE HAVING A GENERAL WARMING TREND.

THE DATA CERTAINLY SHOW THAT.

WE'RE WARMER NOW THAN WE WERE BACK IN THE '80s AND '90s, BUT AGAIN, AS I TAUGHT THIS THE OTHER DAY, WHEN YOU LOOK AT CLIMATE, YOU LOOK AT ANY KIND OF STATISTICAL VARIABLE, YOU LOOK AT WHAT'S CALLED THE BELL-SHAPED CURVE AND THAT BELL-SHAPED CURVE IS SHAPING TO HIGHER TEMPERATURES, BUT IT'S ALSO FLATTENING OUT, WHICH MEANS YOU'RE HAVING MORE EXTREMES ON BOTH ENDS.

I'M NOT A STAT TIS TITIAN, BUT IF YOU GO INTO THE SIMPLE OBSERVATION, THE DATA, BETWEEN WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE FROM 1950 TO 1980, ONE OF THE REAL HEROES OF MINE IS JIM HANSON, JAMES HANSON, THE FARMER DIRECTOR OF GODDARD SPACE STUDIES, AND HE TESTIFIED BEFORE CONGRESS IN 19358 AND HE'S CONVINCED THAT WARMING IS ALREADY HERE AND HE MADE THIS BOLD PREDICTION SAYING THE 1990s WAS GOING THE WOORMEST OF THE 20th CENTURY AND HE WAS RIGHT ON.

>> DR. FISHMAN, WE'RE OUT OF TIME, BUT WE WANT TO THANK YOU FOR YOURS.

JACK FISHMAN, DIRECTOR DVR ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENCES AT ST. LOUIS UNIVERSITY, WE THANK YOU AND FRESH YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU, CHARLIE.

>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.