>> Braude: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON": AFTER STATE LEGISLATORS GRILLED GOVERNOR CHARLIE BAKER ON SOME OF THE MANY BUMPS IN THE VACCINE ROLLOUT, I'M JOINED BY TWO OTHERS WHO TESTIFIED, STATE SENATOR SONIA CHANG-DIAZ AND FORMER CHIEF RESILIENCY OFFICER OF BOSTON, ATYIA MARTIN, ON THEIR EQUITY CONCERNS AND OTHER TAKE-AWAYS FROM THE DAY.

PLUS, THE PEOPLE BEHIND A NEW BOOK FOR TWEENS AND THEIR PARENTS ABOUT THE STRUGGLES, STRESS, AND ANXIETY KIDS HAVE BEEN DEALING WITH IN THE PAST YEAR, AND HOW TO MAKE IT THROUGH.

IT'S CALLED "THE INSANELY AWESOME PANDEMIC PLAYBOOK: A HUMOROUS MENTAL HEALTH GUIDE FOR KIDS."

AND, FINALLY, REMEMBERING SOME OF THE MANY WE'VE LOFT TO COVID.

>>> GOVERNOR CHARLIE BAKER SAID YESTERDAY HE EXPECTED THE VACCINE BOOKING PROCESS WOULD BE SMOOTHER TODAY, IN PART THANKS TO A NEW DIGITAL WAITING ROOM THAT WAS ADDED TO THE STATE'S WEBSITE.

WELL, AT LEAST IT DIDN'T CRASH.

BUT THIS MORNING'S EXPERIENCE WAS ANYTHING BUT SMOOTH, WITH REPORTS OF SOME WAIT TIMES AS HIGH AS 50,000 MINUTES, OR ROUGHLY 35 DAYS.

FOR MANY OTHERS, THE NUMBERS JUMPED AROUND FROM HUNDREDS OF MINUTES TO JUST A FEW.

BUT AS WAIT TIMES WENT DOWN, SO DID THE AVAILABLE APPOINTMENTS, WHICH WERE QUICKLY ALL BOOKED UP.

THAT PART IS UNAVOIDABLE.

GOVERNOR BAKER WAS ASKED ABOUT ALL OF THIS AND MORE IN A HEARING BEFORE THE STATE LEGISLATURE ABOUT THE VACCINE ROLLOUT TODAY, WHICH AT TIMES GOT HEATED, ESPECIALLY IN REGARDS TO THE WEBSITE.

>> "HOW MUCH MORE STREAMLINED WOULD YOU LIKE IT TO BE THAN THAT?"

DO YOU REMEMBER SAYING THAT?

>> THAT IS EXACTLY HOW PEOPLE HAVE ACCESSED AND HAVE BOOKED 300,000 APPOINTMENTS ON THAT WEBSITE SINCE IT WENT LIVE IN JANUARY.

>> WELL, YOU ACKNOWLEDGED IT WASN'T WORKING WELL AFTER THAT BECAUSE THERE WAS AN OUTCRY AFTER THOSE COMMENTS.

>> THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE WITH THE WEBSITE FROM THE BEGINNING HAS BEEN THE SUPPLY AND THE FACT THAT PEOPLE GET FRUSTRATED -- AND I UNDERSTAND WHY -- WHEN THEY CAN'T ACCESS AN APPOINTMENT.

>> NOBODY DISAGREES WITH YOU THAT THE SUPPLY IS LIMITED, BUT, IN THEORY, IF A MILLION DOSES ARE AVAILABLE IN THE STATE BUT THE WEBSITE STILL CRASHED, IT WOULDN'T HAVE MADE A DIFFERENCE.

>> WHAT HAPPENED TO THE WEBSITE IS ON US.

I WAS INCREDIBLY -- >> WOULD YOU SAY SORRY?

WILL YOU SAY SORRY TO THE MILLION PEOPLE YOU TOLD -- >> YES, OF COURSE.

ABSOLUTELY.

DEFINITELY, YES.

>> Braude: AS FOR WHAT LED TO THE CRASH?

WE ALSO GOT SOME INSIGHT FROM TIFFANY TATE, THE C.E.O.

OF PREPMOD, WHICH IS THE COMPANY THAT BUILT THE SITE.

>> DID PREPMOD RECEIVE NOTICE FROM THE STATE OF MASSACHUSETTS TO EXPECT A SURGE IN ADVANCE OF THE COHORT OPENING UP FOR VACCINE APPOINTMENTS?

>> WE HAD KNOWLEDGE THAT THIS WAS COMING.

I, PERSONALLY, DID NOT KNOW IT WAS ON THAT PARTICULAR DAY.

>> Braude: NOT A GREAT LOOK FOR THE STATE.

AS FOR THE ROLLOUT AS A WHOLE, GOVERNOR BAKER DEFENDED THE STATE'S SLOW START, BUT EMPHASIZED THE PROGRESS MADE IN GOING FROM THE BOTTOM 10 STATES TO THE TOP 10, AS FAR AS GETTING FIRST SHOTS IN ARMS, ACCORDING TO THE "WASHINGTON POST."

AND TO THAT END, BAKER ANNOUNCED AT A PRESS CONFERENCE AFTER HIS TESTIMONY, THAT THE STATE WILL MOVE TO THE NEXT STEP OF ITS REOPENING PLAN MONDAY, WHICH WILL RAISE THE CAPACITY LEVELS FOR A NUMBER OF BUSINESSES, INCLUDING INDOOR PERFORMANCE SPACES AND INDOOR RECREATIONAL FACILITIES.

IT ALSO MEANS NO MORE CAPACITY LIMITS FOR RESTAURANTS.

AND ON MARCH 22, THE STATE WILL LET LARGE VENUES, LIKE FENWAY PARK, GILLETTE STADIUM, AND T.D.

GARDEN, OPEN UP AT 12% CAPACITY.

BUT WHILE THE STATE HAS MADE PROGRESS, AS SEVERAL SPEAKERS ARGUED TODAY DURING THE HEARING, THE ROAD AHEAD LOOKS A LOT LUMPIER AND BUMPIER, TO USE THE GOVERNOR'S PHRASE, FOR SOME MORE THAN OTHERS.

>> THE IMPACTS OF COVID WAS NOT A SURPRISE.

AS SOMEONE WHO'S SEEN PAIN AND SUFFERING AND DEATH AND HAS EXPERIENCED THAT IN MY OWN FAMILY AND SEEING IT IN THE COMMUNITY, IT IS HARD TO FIND THE WORDS TO DESCRIBE THE LEVEL OF FRUSTRATION, AND THE FACT WE KNEW THAT THIS WAS GOING TO HAPPEN AND THE FACT THAT THIS ISN'T NEW.

>> THERE'S A SENSE, MADAM CHAIR, THAT GETTING A VACCINE APPOINTMENT IN MASSACHUSETTS IS LIKE TRYING TO WIN THE LOTTERY.

IF THAT WERE THE SET-UP, THAT WOULD BE UNDERSTANDABLY FRUSTRATING AND STRESSFUL.

BUT AT LEAST IT WOULD BE SOME VERSION OF FAIR.

FIRST COME, FIRST SERVED IS NOT A LOTTERY WHERE EVERYONE HAS AN EQUAL CHANCE TO WIN; IT'S A RAFFLE.

ENGLISH SPEAKER, TICKET.

NEVER EXPERIENCED MEDICAL RACISM, TICKET.

A CAR, TICKET.

YOU COULD NOT FINE A MORE TEXTBOOK CASE STUDY OF STRUCTURAL RACISM IF YOU TRIED.

>> Braude: THOSE TWO SPEAKERS JOIN ME NOW: STATE SENATOR SONIA CHANG-DIAZ, CHAIR OF THE JOINT COMMITTEE ON RACIAL EQUITY, CIVIL RIGHTS, AND INCLUSION; AND ATYIA MARTIN, A MEMBER OF THE BLACK BOSTON COVID-19 COALITION, THE FORMER CHIEF RESILIENCY OFFICER FOR THE CITY OF BOSTON, AND THE FORMER DIRECTOR OF THE BOSTON PUBLIC HEALTH COMMISSION'S OFFICE OF PUBLIC HEALTH PREPAREDNESS.

SHE'S ALSO THE FOUNDER OF ALL ACES, INC., A BOSTON-BASED ORGANIZATION THAT FOCUSES ON DIVERSITY AND EQUITY TRAINING.

>> Braude: IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU YOU BOTH.

THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>> ALWAYS GOOD TO SEE YOU, JIMG.

>> Braude:JIM.

>> Braude: SENATOR, STARTING WITH YOU, THE GOVERNOR ANNOUNCED 4.7 MILLION DOLLARS TARGETED TO 20 SOCIALLY VULNERABLE COMMUNITIES FOR VACCINE ISSUES.

THE DAY BEFORE MICHAEL CURRIE WAS HERE, COMPLIMENTING THE GOVERNOR FORTUNATEFOR DIRECTING MONEY TO THE COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTERS WHAT IS THE GOVERNOR NOT DOING HE SHOULD BE DOING.

>> FORTUNATELY, SOMEWHERE E A REALLY CRISP ARTICULATION OF A ROADMAP THAT AND I OTHERS, INCLUDING DR. MARTIN, AS WELL AS THE BOSTON BLACK COALITION, THEY ARTICULATED FIVE POINTS OF THINGS THAT NEED TO HAPPEN RIGHT AWAY.

ONE OF THOSE IS $10 MILLION WORTH OF AN INVESTMENT IN DIRECT GRASSROOTS COMMUNICATION TO THE HARDEST HIT COMMUNITIES, AND SUPPORT SERVICES TO GET PEOPLE CONNECTED WITH VACCINATION, WHETHER IT IS INFORMATION, TRANSPORTATION, AND, JUST, YOU KNOW, LETTING PEOPLE KNOW WHAT THEY NEED IN ORDER TO SIGN UP.

THAT'S FOR STARTERS.

THAT $10 MILLION INVESTMENT.

WE NEED CLEAR SIGHT LINES OF WHO IS ACCOUNTABLE FOR THIS WORK.

WE ARE LOOKING FOR A CRISP ASSIGNMENT OF WHO GOING TO BE IN CHARGE OF VACCINE EQUITY FOR THE STATE.

SO THERE IS CLEAR ACCOUNTABILITY FOR THIS.

WE'RE ALSO LOOKING FOR TRANSPARENCY AND BENCHMARKING.

AND I KNOW YOU'VE GOT ANOTHER QUESTION FOR ME, SO I WON'T GO THROUGH THE REST OF THE LIST -- >> Braude: THAT'S FINE.

LET ME MOVE TO YOUR COLLEAGUE, SINCE YOU WERE INVOLVED IN PUTTING THOSE TOGETHER, LET ME ADD ONE OF TO THE LIST.

MARTY WALSH -- YOU'RE FORMER BOSS -- HE ANNOUNCED THAT 50% OF THE DOSES THAT WILL BE ADMINISTERED TO THE REGGIE LEWIS CENTER WILL GO TO PEOPLE OF COLOR AND OTHER VULNERABLE COMMUNITIES.

IS THAT THE KIND OF THING THE STATE SHOULD BE DOING, WELL BEYOND THE BORDERS OF BOSTON?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

IN FACT, WE CAN DO EVEN MORE.

IF WE'RE THINKING ABOUT EQUITY, AND WE THINK ABOUT HOW WE HAVE ALREADY DISTRIBUTED THE VACCINE, COMMUNITIES OF COLOR, POOR PEOPLE, AND OTHER MARGINALIZED GROUPS AND UNDERESTIMATED GROUPS HAVE ALREADY LOST THAT ONE.

MOST OF THE DOSES HAVE ALREADY GONE OUT.

SO 50% OF A ONE SMALL SITE REALLY LIMITS THE POSSIBILITIES OF CLOSING THOSE GRASP.

I DO APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT WE'RE DOING IT, AND BLACK BOSTON COALITION IS PARTNERING WITH THE CITY IN BEING ABLE TO LEVERAGE THAT 50% IN GETTING PEOPLE ACCESS TO THAT SITE.

>> Braude: SONIA CHANG-DIAZ, I WANT TO GO BACK TO YOU.

YOU SAID THAT THE GOVERNOR WAS ASKED THE QUESTION OF HOW HE MEASURED SUCCESS, AND YOU, I BELIEVE, SAID SOMETHING LIKE HE DIDN'T HAVE A CRISP ANSWER.

HERE IS WHAT I ASSUME HE WOULD SAY WAS HIS ANSWER.

HERE IS THE GOVERNOR.

>> WE'RE SECOND IN THE COUNTRY, WITH RESPECT TO THE PERCENT OF OUR BLACK RESIDENTS WHO HAVE BEEN VACCINATED, AND SEVERAL POINTS ABOVE THE NATIONAL AVERAGE FOR OUR HISPANIC POPULATION AS WELL.

>> Braude: WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO WHAT THE GOVERNOR HAD TO SAY, SENATOR?

>> YEAH, I THINK WE'RE STARTING TO TURN TO THE DIRECTION OF THE RIGHT CONVERSATION, WHERE WE'RE NAMING SYMMETRICS, AND THAT'S A POSITIVE STEP.

AND I'M GLAD TO HEAR THAT PASSING THROUGH THE GOVERNOR'S MOUTH.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE SORT OF -- IF WE BENCHMARK OURSELVES ONLY TO OTHER STATES, I WOULD ARGUE THAT IS NOT THE RIGHT BENCHMARK.

IT IS SAYING AS LONG AS WE'RE BETTER THAN SOMEBODY ELSE, THEN WE'RE DOING ENOUGH.

THAT IS A VERY FAMILIAR ARGUMENT TO ME.

I REMEMBER WHEN HE HEARD THOSE ARGUMENTS AROUND CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM, WHEN WEIGH SAID WE SAID WE'RE LOCKING UP WAY FEWER PEOPLE THAN ANY OTHER STATE, AND THAT IS TRUE.

BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT MASSACHUSETTS COMPARED TO ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, WE'RE WAY HIGHER.

SO THE QUESTION IS -- I THINK THE RIGHT BENCHMARK IS NOT ARE WE DOING BETTER THAN A TERRIBLE SITUATION ELSEWHERE IN THE COUNTRY, BUT HOW ARE WE DOING COMPARED TO WHERE PEOPLE ARE GETTING THE MOST COVID INFECTIONS?

WE NEED TO MATCH OUR VACCINATION RATE TO WHAT OUR INFECTION RATE IS, IF WE WANT TO REALLY ACHIEVE EQUITY AND PARITY.

>> Braude: ATYIA MARTIN, I ASSUME YOU WOULD AGREE HOW YOU GET TO EQUITY -- OBVIOUSLY ANOTHER ISSUE IS HEFT TANS SEE.

HESITANCY.

AND ONE OF THE PEOPLE OR YOUR PANEL ADDRESSED THAT.

HERE IS A LITTLE OF WHAT SHE HAD TO SAY.

>> I I DO MY BEST TO CONVINCE PEOPLE IN MY COMMUNITY THAT GETTING VACCINATED IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

BUT IT IS VERY HARD BECAUSE I CONVINCE THEM, AND I HAVE TO WAIT FOR AN APPOINTMENT IN A SYSTEM THAT DOESN'T WORK, IN A SYSTEM THAT CRASHES.

IT IS LIKE YOU OFFICIALS CONVINCING YOU TO COME TO ME, AND I'M TAKING YOU TO THE POLL, AND THEN THEY SAY, HE IS NOT ON THIS LIST.

I BROUGHT HIM TO THE POLL, BUT THIS IS STUFF THAT HAPPENS.

>> Braude: ATYIA MARTIN, ARE WE MAKING PROGRESS?

AND WHAT SPECIFICALLY SHOULD THE STATE BE DOING TO ADDRESS A CRITICAL ISSUE, PEOPLE NOT WILLING OR TOO SCARED TO TAKE THE VACCINE?

>> THERE ARE A COUPLE OF THINGS.

ONE THING THAT MS. VAGA WAS VERY EXPLICIT ABOUT IS THAT PEOPLE ARE OVERCOMING THEIR FEAR OF TAKING THE VACCINE, AND THEN NOT BEING ABLE TO ACCESS IT, WAS HER MAIN POINT.

BUT IN TERMS OF ADDRESSING THE HESITANCY THAT WE'RE HEARING, IS TO UNDERSTAND IT IS PART OF A MUCH BIGGER PICTURE AND STORY, RIGHT?

IN THAT THERE IS A HUGE INFORMATION GAP IN TERMS OF GOOD QUALITY INFORMATION THAT PEOPLE CAN HAVE ACCESS TO.

SO IT BEING ON A WEBSITE AND BEING ON SOCIAL MEDIA DOES NOT GET TO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE MOST MARGINALIZED IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

WE TEND TO KNOW THIS.

AND THIS IS SOME THAT SENATOR CHANG DIAZ SAID THE OTHER DAY, WE TEND TO KNOW TO DO ON THE GROUND WORK, DOOR COMICING, KNOCKING AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS WHEN IT CALMS TO CAMPAIGNING.

BUT WHEN COMES TO IMPLEMENTING PROGRAMS, WE FORGET THAT IS A THING THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN IN ORDER TO REACH PEOPLE.

>> Braude: WHEN I HEAR YOU BOTH, AND I'M NODDING SAYING, THAT IS A GOOD IDEA, AND THAT IS A GOOD IDEA -- WHEN EVERYBODY IS TAKING SHOTS AT THE GOVERNOR -- AND I'M INCLUDED IN THAT -- IS THE LEGISLATURE IN COALITION WITH OTHER ORGANIZATIONS AND PEOPLE HAVE BETTER IDEAS, WHY DON'T YOU PASS A DAMN BILL AND PUT IT ON THE GOVERNOR'S DESK SO WE GET ACTION ON THE THINGS YOU THINK THERE IS INACTION ON?

>> THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT'S WHY I FILED LEGISLATION, TOGETHER WITH MY SISTERS IN SERVICE, SENATOR ROUSH AND REPRESENTATIVES MIRANDA AND DON.

AND IF THE GOVERNOR DOESN'T ACT, THE LEGISLATURE NEEDS TO BE READY TO MOVE EXPEDITIOUSLY.

THE GOVERNOR IS THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE IN A TIME OF CRISIS.

IT IS NOT CRAZY THAT WE'RE BRINGING PLANS TO HIM FIRST AND SAYING, HEY, CAN YOU PLEASE DO THIS?

THIS IS NOT ABOUT TAKING POT SHOTS.

WE ALL NEED TO REMEMBER AND KEEP IN MIND THAT WE NEED THE GOVERNOR TO SUCCEED.

AND THE GOVERNOR'S SUCCESS IS ALL OF OUR SUCCESS.

SO I HOPE KEENLY THAT HE WILL SAY YES TO THIS PLAN AND WE WON'T NEED TO PASS LEGISLATION.

AND I WANT TO LIFT UP SOME THINGS HE HAS DONE RIGHT AS WELL.

HE DID PRIORITIZE CONGREGATE CARE FACILITIES AND WORKERS IN PHASE ONE.

HE DID IT IN A QUIET WAY THAT IS DESERVING OF PRAISE.

BUT IT IS NOT ENOUGH.

THAT IS WHY WE'RE MAKING THIS PUSH.

IT IS NOT ABOUT FEELINGS.

IT IS ABOUT WHAT WE NEED TO DO TO SAVE PEOPLE.

>> Braude: ATYIA?

>> THERE IS A PATTERN I'VE SEEN WITH LEADERSHIP, WORKING WITH ORGANIZATIONS ACROSS THE COUNTRY, THAT LEADERS TEND TO THINK THAT THEY HAVE TO SOLVE ALL OF THE PROBLEMS ON THEIR OWN.

THEY TEND TO SURROUND THEMSELVES WITH A SMALL GROUP OF PEOPLE AND LISTEN TO THAT SMALL GROUP OF PEOPLE.

THE CHALLENGE WITH THAT IS WHEN IT COMES TO GOVERNMENT, WHEN IT COMES TO ANY ORGANIZATION, YOU'RE ONLY GETTING A SMALL PIECE OF THE AVAILABLE INFORMATION IN ORDER TO MAKE GOOD DECISIONS.

AND SO THIS IS WHAT WE'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW.

SO WHEN YOU'RE MORE COLLABORATIVE, WHEN YOU'RE WORKING WITH LOCAL PUBLIC HEALTH, WHEN YOU'RE WORKING WITH COMMUNITIES, YOU GET THE KIND OF INFORMATION THAT PREVENTS YOU FROM MAKE UG MAKING THE KIND OF DECISIONS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE UP TO THIS POINT.

YOU NEED TO WORK IN PARTNERSHIP WITH PEOPLE TO IMPLEMENT IT ON THE GROUND.

NO ONE EXPECTS THE GOVERNOR OR ANY OF THE STATE EMPLOYEES TO JUST FOGGYFIGURE IT OUT BY THEMSELVES.

THE GOAL IS WE'RE WORKING TOGETHER TO GET THIS WORK DONE.

WE ALL WANT THE GOVERNOR TO BE SUCCESSFUL, AND THAT REQUIRES A LEVEL OF PARTNERSHIP THAT THIS ADMINISTRATION HASN'T QUITE DISPLAYED YET.

>> Braude: ON THAT NOTE, WE'LL HAVE TO LEAVE IT.

I HOPE YOU TWO WILL COME BACK AND TALK TO US MORE.

AND I HOPE YOU MAKE A LOT OF PROGRESS IN BETWEEN.

>> Braude: SONIA CHANG-DIAZ AND ATYIA MARTIN, THANKS.

>>> THE PANDEMIC HAS TURNED EVERYONE'S LIFE UPSIDE DOWN, BUT FOR KIDS, THE STRESS, ANXIETY, AND UNCERTAINTY AROUND ALL THE CHANGE CAN BE PARTICULARLY HARD.

AS A NEW BOOK PUTS IT: "SCHOOL'S DIFFERENT, FRIENDS ARE DIFFERENT, PARENTS ARE DIFFERENT, TOO.

THOSE SCAMPS ARE EVEN CRAZIER THAN THEY EVER WERE BEFORE."

AND AS A FATHER, LET ME TELL YOU, WE WERE PRETTY CRAZY BEFORE.

THE BOOK IS CALLED "THE INSANELY AWESOME PANDEMIC PLAYBOOK: A HUMOROUS MENTAL HEALTH GUIDE FOR KIDS," AND THE WHOLE THING IS ILLUSTRATED BY AN INSANELY TALENTED 7th GRADER, CAROLINE CHARLAND.

THERE'S ALSO AN ACCOMPANYING "EDUCATIONAL GUIDE FOR PARENTS AND TEACHERS."

AND JOINING ME NOW ARE THE AUTHORS, ELIZABETH ENGLANDER, A PROFESSOR OF PSYCHOLOGY AND THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE MASSACHUSETTS AGGRESSION REDUCTION CENTER AT BRIDGEWATER STATE UNIVERSITY; AND KATHERINE COVINO, AN ASSISTANT PROFESSOR OF ENGLISH AT FITCHBURG STATE, AND A FORMER MIDDLE AND ELEMENTARY SCHOOL TEACHER.

>> Braude: ELIZABETH, AND KATIE, THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME.

I APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING US.

>> Braude: A PLEASURE.

ELIZABETH, STARTING WITH YOU, FIRST OF ALL, THE BOOK IS FUNNY AND SMART, AND I'M NOT EVEN A TWEEN.

I DON'T THINK I EVER WAS A TWEEN.

KIDS OF ALL AGES ARE OBVIOUSLY SUFFERING FROM THE PANDEMIC.

WHY DID YOU DECIDE TO FOCUS ON EIGHT AND 12-YEAR-OLDS, NOT YOUNGER AND NOT OLDER?

WHY THAT AGE DEMOGRAPHIC?

>> WELL, THAT AGE DEMOGRAPHIC I THINK HAS BEEN PARTICULARLY IMPACTED.

YOUNGER KIDS ARE MORE LIKELY TO STILL BE GOING TO SCHOOL OR AT LEAST GOING TO SCHOOL A COUPLE OF DAYS A WEEK.

AND TEENAGERS ARE A LITTLE BETTER ABLE TO COPE EMOTIONALLY AND SOCIALLY WITH HAVING TO DO DISTANCE LEARNING.

BUT THAT AGE GROUP IS REALLY VULNERABLE.

AND I THINK THAT WE FOCUSED ON THEM BECAUSE WE KNEW THAT THEY WERE GOING TO BE THE AGE GROUP THAT REALLY NEEDED HELP.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW --, KATIE, WHEN I READ SOME OF THE REVIEWS OF THE BOOK, ANY TIME I READ SOMETHING THAT SAYS IT IS HUMOROUS, I SAY I'LL BE THE JUDGE, BUT IT IS REALLY FUNNY.

WHO OF THE TWO OF YOU IS THE FUNNY ONE?

>> KATIE.

[LAUGHTER] >> Braude: IT REALLY IS FUNNY.

I WROTE DOWN SOME OF THE MANY THINGS YOU ADDRESS.

PARENTS ZOOM BOMBING, SCREEN TIME, SOCIAL ISOLATION, BOREDOM, ANXIETY, AND DEPRESSION.

IF I CAN PICK A FEW, KATIE, STARTING WITH YOU, TELL ME EXACTLY WHAT THE ISSUE IS.

LET'S START WITH SCREEN TIME THAT IS OBVIOUSLY AN ISSUE THAT CONFRONTS EVERY 8- TO 12-YEAR-OLD AND THEIR PARENTS.

WHAT IS THE PROBLEM AND HOW DO THE ADDRESS IT?

>> THE PROBLEM IS THERE IS TOO MUCH.

TOO MUCH SCREEN TIME OR MAYBE THERE IS A LOT MORE THAN THERE USED TO BE.

HOW DO YOU ADDRESS IT?

THE FIRST THING YOU CAN DO IS TALK ABOUT EYE STRAIN.

THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS WE TALK ABOUT IN THE CHAPTER.

WE MAKE JOKES ABOUT LOOKING ALL DAY AT THE COMPUTER AND HAVING IT BEING CHANGED TO YOU OR HAVING YOUR iPAD BE YOUR NEW B.F.F.

WE CAN GET BLUE-LIGHT GLASSES OR TAKE A BREAK OUTSIDE.

ONE OF THE ISSUES, AT LEAST FOR MY KIDS, WHEN THEY'RE LOOKING TO TAKE A BREAK FROM SCREENS, THE THING THEY WANT TO DO IS MORE SCREENS.

THEY WANT TO PLAY GAMES, CHAT WITH THEIR FRIENDS, WATCH NETFLIX.

SO HOW CAN WE ENCOURAGE THEM TO HANDLE THE SCREEN TIME THAT THEY HAVE, AND HOW CAN WE ENCOURAGE THEM TO TAKE A BREAK FROM SCREENS BECAUSE WE KNOW THEY NEED IT.

THOSE ARE TWO ISSUES AND TWO OF OUR SUGGESTIONS.

>> Braude: AND THE ONCE, ELIZABETH, THAT I ASSUME ARE MOST CONCERNING TO PARENTS ARE THE ANXIETY AND DEPRESSION THING.

ON OUR RADIO SHOW, I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY PARENTS CALL AND TALK ABOUT WATCHING THEIR KIDS SITTING THERE TRYING TO DO REMOTE LEARNING, AND IT IS BREAKING THEIR HEART AND IT BREAKS OURS AS WELL.

HOW DO YOU ADDRESS THAT IN THE BOOK?

>> WELL, THAT WAS, IN A WAY, SOME OF THE MOST IMPORTANT PARTS OF THIS BOOK.

WHAT WE REALLY WANTED TO DO WAS WE WANTED TO GIVE THE KIDS THEMSELVES SOME TOOLS THAT THEY COULD USE TO BEGIN TO UNDERSTAND AND THINK ABOUT THEIR OWN FEELINGS AND ADDRESS IT.

WE WANTED THEM TO HAVE THE LANGUAGE.

BUT WE DIDN'T WANT TO SCARE THEM.

AND THAT'S REALLY WHERE THE HUMOUR COMES IN.

WE WANTED THEM TO THINK ABOUT WHAT DOES ANXIETY MEAN, WHAT DOES DEPRESSION MEAN?

AND WHAT CAN YOU DO?

IF YOU ARE 10 YEARS OLD, THERE ARE THINGS YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT.

BUT THINGS AREN'T ALWAYS INTUITIVE.

KATIE MENTIONED KIDS MIGHT GRAVITATE TOWARDS MORE SCREEN TIME, AND WE WANTED THEM TO UNDERSTAND IF THEY DID OTHER THINGS IT MIGHT ACTUALLY MAKE THEM FEEL BETTER.

>> Braude: I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO KNOW, KATIE, DO YOU HAVE ANY FEEDBACK ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT WHAT APPEARS TO AN OLDER PERSON, ME, AND YOU TWO, TOO, BY COMPARISON TO THE TWEENS, IS THIS GETTING THROUGH TO THESE KIDS?

CAN A BOOK CHANGE THEIR MINDSET ABOUT STRIFES THEY'RE DEALING WITH?

>> ONE OF MY FAVORITE REVIEWS OF THE BOOK ON AMAZON IS FROM A WOMAN WHO SAID HER CHILD WAS GIGGLING ALL THE WAY THROUGH IT.

>> Braude: THAT'S GREAT.

>> SO IT IS NOT JUST SERIOUS ADVICE FROM SERIOUS PEOPLE.

WE HAVE TO LAYER THE RESEARCH AND SCIENCE AND HUMOR TOGETHER TO MAKE KIDS WANT TO READ IT.

WHEN THEY WANT TO READ IT AND READ IT MORE THAN ONCE, THE LESSONS BREAKTHROUGH.

>> KATIE AND DID DO SOME RESEARCH ON THIS TECHNIQUE.

AND WHAT WE DID IS KATIE READ IT TO GROUPS OF 9-YEAR-OLDS, BE THEN WE ACTUALLY TESTED THEM TO SEE WHAT THEY REMEMBERED.

AND THERE ARE PARTICULAR WAYS YOU HAVE TO USE TO TEST KIDS THAT AGE.

BUT TO SEE IF THEY RETAINED THE LESSON.

THESE BOOKS ARE EDUCATIONAL, YOU KNOW, AT THEIR CORE.

THAT'S THE WHOLE PURPOSE.

AND THE FUNNY PART IS JUST WHAT MAKES THEM WANT TO READ IT.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW -- BY THE WAY, I MENTIONED THIS IS A PLAYBOOK FOR PARENTS AND TEACHERS, WHICH IS A SUPPLEMENT, WHICH IS REALLY HELPFUL, TELLING THEM HOW TO USE IT AND WORK WITH THEIR KIDS.

ELIZABETH, I'M NOT SURE IF WAS THE HEAD OF THE MASSACHUSETTS TEACHERS THAT SAID THIS, OBVIOUSLY THERE IS ONE SET OF PROBLEMS THEKIT KID THE KID HAS WHEN THEY'RE HOME, BUT SOMEONE SAID IN THE LAST 24 HOURS, THERE IS A WHOLE OTHER SET OF PROBLEMS WHEN THE KID GOES BACK TO SCHOOL.

WE'RE ACTING LIKE WHEN THEY GO BACK TO SCHOOL EVERYTHING IS GREAT -- YOU'RE BOTH NODDING IN AGREEMENT.

IS THAT NEXT ON THE ELIZABETH AND KATIE AGENDA?

>> THAT IS NEXT.

LAST JUNE AT THE UNIVERSITY WE STARTED A PROJECT CALLED "WHEN THE KIDS COME BACK," BACK," WHERE WE GAVE SCHOOL GUIDANCE ABOUT HOW TO HANDLE ALL OF THE EMOTIONAL AND BEHAVIORAL ISSUES THAT WILL ARISE WHEN THE KIDS WENT BACK TO SCHOOL.

BUT AT THAT POINT, WE THOUGHT THEY WERE GOING TO GO BACK TO SCHOOL IN SEPTEMBER.

>> Braude: YEAH.

>> SO IT IS REALLY A DIFFERENT KETTLE OF FISH NOW.

THEY'RE NOT OUT OF SCHOOL THREE OR FOUR MONTHS.

THEY'RE OUT OF SCHOOL FOR A YEAR.

ALL OF THE SOCIAL AND EMOTIONAL STUFF IS GOING TO BE HUGE.

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ALL GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT THIS YEAR.

SO, YEAH, WE HAVE A SEQUEL IN THE WORKS, AND WE'RE ALREADY WORKING ON IT VERY HARD.

AND THE IDEA IS TO GIVE KIDS TOOLS FOR SOME OF THE THINGS THAT ARE GOING TO COME UP, SOME OF THE FEARS AND THE ANXIETIES AND THE SORT OF WEIRD FEELINGS YOU HAVE WHEN YOU GO BACK TO NORMAL, EVEN THOUGH YOU'VE BEEN CRAVING NORMAL.

>> Braude: OF COURSE.

>> IT STILL FEELS WEIRD.

SO ALL OF THAT STUFF IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE DEALT WITH.

ABSOLUTELY.

>> Braude: WELL, I'M WAITING FOR IT, AND I'M SURE THEY ARE, TOO.

YOU BOTH DID FINE WORK, ELIZABETH AND KATIE, IT IS GREAT TO MEET YOU AND CONGRATULATIONS ON THE BOOKS.

>> THANKS SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

> THE BOOKS, AGAIN, ARE: "THE INSANELY AWESOME PANDEMIC PLAYBOOK: A HUMOROUS MENTAL HEALTH GUIDE FOR KIDS," AND "THE EDUCATIONAL GUIDE FOR PARENTS AND TEACHERS."

>>> FINALLY TONIGHT, REMEMBERING SOME OF THE MORE THAN 500,000 PEOPLE WHO HAVE DIED IN THIS PANDEMIC, WITH THE HYMN OF THE "FACES OF COVID" TWITTER ACCOUNT.

LIKE 96-YEAR-OLD FAIVISH SHAVLOV OF WEST BRIDGEWATER, WHOSE FAMILY SAID HE WAS "A MAN WHO FOUGHT AGAINST THE NAZIS, A MAN WHO LOVED HIS FAMILY, A MAN WHO IS GREATLY MISSED."

71-YEAR-OLD ALFIO GRECO OF METHUEN.

HIS FRIEND AND A CO-WORKER SAID HE "ALWAYS MADE THEM LAUGH" AND THAT THEY WILL "MISS HIM TERRIBLY."

AND 68-YEAR-OLD DENNIS DAMATA OF WALPOLE, WHO WAS "ALWAYS SMILING AND WAS WELL-LOVED."

HIS FAMILY SAID HE WAS KNOWN TO TALK WITH HIS BROTHERS EVERY SINGLE DAY WITHOUT FALTER, AND NOTHING MADE HIM SMILE MORE THAN SPENDING TIME WITH HIS GRANDCHILDREN.

IF YOU LOST SOMEONE YOU LOVE TO THE PANDEMIC AND WOULD LIKE TO SHARE THEIR STORY, PLEASE VISIT www.twitter.com/faces of Covid.

THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT, BUT COME BACK TOMORROW FOR "BEAT THE PRESS."

EMILY ROONEY AND HER PANEL WILL TAKE UP WHETHER STATIONS WENT OVERBOARD ON ITS TIGER WOODS COVERAGE.

PLUS, WHY SOME MAINSTREAM OUTLETS ARE STILL GIVING VOICE TO THOSE WHO CLAIM THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN.

THAT AND MORE, TOMORROW AT 7:00.

I'LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

CITY SAFE AND STAY TUNED NEXT FOR THE LATEST IN OUR ONGOING GBH NEWS SERIES, "COVID-19 AND THE CLASSROOM."

Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org