♪ ♪ >> Rooney: I AM EMILY ROONEY.

WELCOME TO "BEAT THE PRESS".

OUR TOPICS, A U.S. INTELLIGENCE OUR TOPICS, A U.S. INTELLIGENCE REPORT SAYS JOURNALIST JAMAL KHASHOGGI DIED AT THE DIRECTION OF SAUDI PRINCE MUHAMMAD BIN SALMAN, THE GOVERNOR EXAGGERATES HOW 12 STATE IS DOING WITH VACCINES AND THE MEDIA'S RESPONSE IS MEH.

THE SUNDAY MORNING TALK SHOWS CONTINUE TO BOOK ELECTION DENIERS, AND THE MEDIA GOES INTO OVERDRIVE WITH THE TIGER WOODS CAR CRASH.

PLUS OUR RANTS AND RAVES OF THE WEEK.

JOINING ME ARE FORMER CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT DAN LOTHIAN, MEDIA STRATEGIST SUSIE BANIKARIM, JOANNA WEISS OF "EXPERIENCE" MAGAZINE, AND CALLIE CROSSLEY OF GBH NEWS.

>> FIRST UP, THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION RELEASED A LONG AWAITED REPORT THIS AFTERNOON SAYING SAUDI ARABIA'S CROWN PRINCE MUHAMMAD BIN SALMAN APPROVED AN OPERATION IN ISTANBUL, TURKEY TO CAPTURE OR KILL SAUDI JOURNALIST JAMAL KHASHOGGI.

JAMAICA PLAIN A SAUDI CITIZEN THAT WORKED FOR "WASHINGTON POST" WAS LURED INTO THE SAUDI CONSULATE IN OCTOBER OF 2018, KILLED AND THE U.S. INTELLIGENCE REPORT SAYS HE WAS DISMEMBERED BY A TEAM WITH WITH CLOSE TIES TO THE CROWN PRINCE.

HIS REMAINS WERE NEVER FOUND.

AT FIRST THE SAUDI GOVERNMENT DENIED HE WAS MURDERED, THEN LATER SAID HE WAS KILLED ACCIDENTALLY, BEFORE CHANGING THE STORY TO SAY A ROGUE INTELLIGENCE TEAM KILLED HIM.

EIGHT THEN WERE CONVICTED IN HIS KILLING AND FIVE WERE SENTENCED TO DEATH BUT THEIR SENTENCES WERE LATER COMMUTED TO 20 YEARS.

AND SHORTLY AFTER THE INTELLIGENCE REPORT WAS MADE PUBLIC TODAY, "THE NEW YORK TIMES" REPORTED PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN WOULD NOT DIRECTLY PENALIZE THE CROWN PRINCE BECAUSE OF WHAT FEARS IT MIGHT DO TO U.S. RELATIONS WITH SAUDI ARABIA.

>> SUSIE THIS IS JUST A DISTHE GUSTING, HORRIBLE DISSICKABLE INCIDENT WE KNEW THIS WOULD BE THE OUTCOME EVENTUALLY IT WOULD BE TIED DIRECTLY TO MUHAMMAD BIN SALMAN, BUT ESSENTIALLY HE IS GETTING AWAY WITH MURDER OF A FELLOW COUNTRYMAN AND A JOURNALIST WHO WORKED FOR A U.S.

PUBLICATION.

>> YEAH, I MEAN IT IS SO DISAPPOINTING FOR HIS FAMILY WHO JUST IS NEVER GOING TO SEE JUSTICE IN THIS CASE, THAT HAS BEEN CLEAR ALL ALONG, IT IS NICE TO SEE THE ADMINISTRATION AT LEAST ACKNOWLEDGE REALITY, THIS IS A REALITY WE WERE ALL CLEAR WAS THE CASE, THERE IS NO WAY THIS KIND OF THING WOULD HAPPEN WITHOUT THE CROWN PRINCE HAVING BLESSED IT, THEY WOULD NOT HAVE DONE A ROGUE OPERATION, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WAS JUST CAN COMPLETELY UNWILLING TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT REALITY SO IT IS GOOD, I AM SURE HIS FAMILY AT LEAST FEELS SOME GRATIFICATION THERE, BUT IT IS REALLY DISAPPOINTING TO SEE THAT THERE IS JUST NOT GOING TO BE ANY CONSEQUENCES FOR THIS MAN WHO REALLY PUT HIS LIFE ON THE LINE FOR HIS WORK AS WE THINK ABOUT WHERE THIS WILL GO IN THE FUTURE, WHAT KIND OF PROTECTIONS THERE WILL BE FOR JOURNALISTS WORKING FOR URBAN, IS OUTLETS OVERSEAS, CBS NEWS REPORTING ACCORDING TO THEIR SOURCES THAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS LOOKING AT A POLICY THAT COULD IMPOSE SOME, YOU KNOW, STRAIGHT CONSEQUENCES FOR COUNTRIES NOT JUST SAUDI ARABIA BUT OTHER FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS IF THEY DO GO AFTER, YOU KNOW, JOURNALISTS WORKING FOR U.S. PUBLICATIONS.

NOW, YOU KNOW, WE SEE WHAT JUST HAPPENED SO IT IS UNCLEAR HOW WILL THAT ACTUALLY PLAY OUT?

YOU CAN HAVE THE TOUGH POLICY, BUT, YOU KNOW, HOW WILL IT PLAY OUT IF IN FACT SOMETHING DOES HAPPEN?

BUT AT LEAST FEELING A LITTLE BIT BETTER THAT THESE CONVERSATIONS ARE BEING HAD AND THAT THERE COULD BE SOME POLICY PUT IN PLACE.

>> TWO THINGS.

PLEASE WATCH THE DOCUMENTARY THE DISSIDENT BY BRIAN FOEGELE, IT REALLY LAYS OUT ALL OF THE DISGUSTING DETAILS AND I THINK IF PEOPLE THINK THIS IS A SMALL THING THEY WILL BE DISSUADED OTHERWISE.

SECONDLY, THE SAUDI GOVERNMENT TRACKED KHASHOGGI AND OTHER JOURNALISTS CURRENTLY THROUGH A SPYWARE CALLED PEGASUS, SO WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO, UNITED STATES?

ABOUT JOURNALISTS BEING TRACKED BY THIS SPYWARE?

THIS WAS SURVEILLANCE THEY USED, SO THIS IS IMPORTANT FOR OTHER JOURNALISTS TO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS -- I ASSUME SOMETHING LIKE THIS WOULD NOT HAPPEN AGAIN, BUT THE KIND OF TACTICS THAT WERE USED BY THE SAUDI GOVERNMENT ARE STILL IN PLAY.

>> I DO THINK ALL IN ALL, THIS IS GOOD NEWS FOR THE PRESS IN THE SENSE THAT THE FACT THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS FOLLOWING UP IS SHINING LIGHT ON THIS, YOU KNOW, SUGGESTS THAT THEY SUPPORT JOURNALISTS IN DOING THEIR WORK AND ALSO SUGGESTS THAT THE AMERICAN PRESS IS AFFECTING THE FOREIGN -- HAS A HUGE EFFECT ON WHAT FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS DO, THAT THERE IS AN IMPORTANCE TO THE WORK THAT IS BEING DONE.

THE.

>> Rooney: YEAH, WELL, IT IS DISGUSTING AS WE HAVE ALL NOTED AND AT LEAST BIDEN ADMINISTRATION PUT THE FEET TO THE FIRE ON THIS BECAUSE AS WE KNOW TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WASN'T EVEN GOING TO MAKE THAT CONNECTION SO AT LEAST WE HAVE THAT SOLID CONNECTION AND THAT'S A GOOD THING.

ALL RIGHT, WELL, WHEN WE LAST POSED THE QUESTION OF WHETHER THE PRESS HAS BEEN GIVING CHARLIE BAKER A PASS OUR PANEL THOUGHT THE PRESS COULD BE TOUGHER, FAST FORWARD FOUR WEEKS AND NOT MUCH HAS CHANGED, THE WEB SITE IS SIMILAR A MADDENING MESS, THE GOVERNOR IS AS TESTY AS EVER WITH THE PRESS AND ACCORDING TO A RECENT POLL THE GOVERNOR REMAINS AS POPULAR AS EVER.

>> Reporter: BACK IN JANUARY WHEN A REPORTER DARED QUESTION WHETHER THE STATE'S VACCINE WEBSITE COULD BE A LITTLE MORE USER FRIENDLY, THE GOVERNOR WAS HAVING NONE OF IT.

>> SOME OTHER STATES HAVE ONE GIANT SITE THEY CAN GO ON.

>> CLICK ON IT AND MAKE AN APPOINTMENT.

>> NO PLAN TO STREAMLINE THAT.

>> HOW MUCH MORE STREAMLINED WOULD YOU LIKE IT TO BE THAN THAT A?

>> WELL A LOT, JUST AS 50,000 APPOINTS WERE ABOUT TO GO ONLINE, THE GOVERNOR PROMISED THAT THE REVAMPED SITE WOULD MAKE THINGS EASIER, GOING ON TO SAY.

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING FROM OUR POINT OF VIEW IS THAT THE EXPERIENCE BE PREDICTABLE.

>> OH, IT WAS.

USERS ALL OVER THE STATE FOUND THEMSELVES IN A VIRTUAL WAIT ROOM WHERE WAIT TIMES JUMPED FROM TWO MINUTES TO SAY MORE THAN 50,000 MINUTES.

>> IT JUST HAS BEEN AN EXERCISE IN FUTILITY.

>> MAKING THINGS MORE MADDENING THE GOVERNOR IS SPINNING THE NUMBERS.

>> WE ARE A NATIONAL LEADER IN VACCINATING OUR RESIDENTS.

>> NOT ACCORDING TO THE "BOSTON GLOBE"'S DAILY VACCINE CHART, OR BECKER'S HOSPITAL REVIEW, WHICH RANKS MASSACHUSETTS AT 18.

AND THE GOVERNOR KEEPS BLAMING THE WHOLE APPOINTMENT MESS ON LACK OF VACCINE.

>> THE REASON WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH APPOINT IT IS BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH SUPPLY.

>> OKAY.

SO WHERE WERE ALL OF THE QUESTIONS ABOUT WHY HE ALLOWED A MILLION PEOPLE TO TRY TO SIGN UP FOR SOMETHING THAT WASN'T THERE?

>> AT ANY RATE, NEWS OUTLETS CHOSE A MORE UP BEAT LEAD.

>> BACK IN BUSINESS, LARGE VENUES INCLUDING FENWAY, GILLETTE AND THE GARDEN WILL BE ALLOWED TO REOPEN.

>> Rooney: MAKING THE GOVERNOR MORE POPULAR THAN EVER.

CALLIE I KNOW YOU HAVE DONE SOME REPORTING ON THIS AND SOME OF THE DEFICIENCIES THAT HAVE BEEN PROMULGATED BY SOME OF THESE GOVERNMENT POLICIES BY THE GOVERNOR.

BUT THE FACT THAT HE IS EXAGGERATED THESE NUMBERS, PULLED VACCINES FROM DISTRIBUTION FROM HOSPITALS KEEPS SAYING THAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT THE AVAILABILITY OF VACCINE WHEN HE AT THE SAME TIME ALLOWED A MILLION PEOPLE TO GO ON A WEBSITE AND I FEEL LIKE IT IS LIKE, OH, SO WHAT, THAT'S THE GOVERNOR, IT IS JUST LIKE, YOU KNOW, THERE HASN'T BEEN A LOT OF LIKE REALLY TOUGH PULLING -- PULL WITH THE GOVERNOR OVER THIS, IT JUST SEEMS LIKE OH THAT'S THE WAY IT IS AND WE MOVE ON TO OTHER STUFF.

>> WELL, NOT IN THE CASE OF VACCINE EQUITY, BECAUSE THE COALITIONS THAT HAVE BEEN REALLY PUTTING ITS FEET TO THE FIRE NOW AND HAVE A BILL BEFORE HIM TO TRY CORRECT THAT.

>> Rooney: YEAH BUT NOT THE MEDIA.

>> WELL, HERE IS WHAT I AM ABOUT TO SAY ABOUT THAT, MY MOTHER WOULD CALL THIS THE HALO EFFECT IF YOU HAVE DONE WELL FOR A WHILE THEN IT IS HARD FOR THE BAD STUFF TO CATCH UP FOR PEOPLE DECIDE TO CHANGE YOUR IMAGE.

OKAY?

SO PEOPLE ARE LIKE HE HAS DONE -- HE DID SO WELL AND HERE IS THE THING THAT MAKES HIM STAND OUT STILL IN THE MIDDLE OF ALL OF THIS.

HE WASN'T FLORIDA, WHEN WE WERE IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS, HE STOOD UP AND SAID WE ARE GOING TO FOLLOW THE SCIENCE AND HERE IS WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO.

WE ARE GOING TO PAY ATTENTION AND LOCK DOWN SOME THINGS IN MASSACHUSETTS, THAT WAS UNPOPULAR BUT HE STOOD APART FROM OTHERS WHEN HE COULD HAVE GONE A DIFFERENT WAY, THAT'S HALO, IT STILL FOLLOWS HIM BUT BELIEVE MAY 000,000 PEOPLE NOT BEING ABLE TO GET ON THE WEBSITE, THAT IS CHANGING AND CERTAINLY WITH REGARD TO VACCINE EQUITY.

SO WE WILL SEE IT, IT JUST HASN'T HAPPENED YET.

>> YEAH, I MEAN I AM THE ONLY PERSON ON THE PANEL NOT IN MASSACHUSETTS SO I CAN AS SURE YOU THAT THE VACCINES IN NEW YORK IS EQUALLY BOTCHED AND I THINK ONE OF THE PROBLEMS IS THAT EVERYBODY SEES THIS, THIS MARBLE ISSUE THAT IS LIKE ALL OF THE VACCINE EVERYWHERE -- EXCEPT WITH THE EXCEPTION OF ONE OR TWO STATES IT HAS BEEN A DISASTER EVERYWHERE, SO THEY DON'T BLAME THEIR GOVERNORS QUITE AS A MUCH AS THEY MIGHT HAVE IF IT SEEMED LIKE ALL OF THE OTHER STATES WERE DOING A GREAT JOB AND, YOU KNOW, MASSACHUSETTS WAS SOMEHOW BEHIND, BUT ALSO I AM FROM A STATE WHERE THE GOVERNOR HAS BEEN ACCUSED OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT THIS WEEK AND COVERED UP COVID THE, NURSING HOME COVID TEST DEATHS SO -- >> HE I THINK THE HALO IS FADE AGO LITTLE BIT, CALLIE'S POINT THERE WAS A COLUMN IN THE "BOSTON GLOBE" THAT WAS PRETTY ON FIRE AND REALLY HELD CHARLIE BAKER'S FEET TO THE FIRE, IT IS INTERESTING THERE ARE TIMES WHEN I MEAN WHEN WHEN HE FIRST CAME INTO THE OFFICE AND THE SNOW ARMAGEDDON YEAR AND EVERYONE GAVE HIM A PASS BECAUSE IT WAS AN ACT OF GOD AND 10,000 YEAR SNOW EVENT SO PEOPLE GAVE HIM A PASS.

I THINK AT THIS POINT, EVEN THOUGH OTHER STATES ARE, YES, HAVING PROBLEMS, THIS IS THE GOVERNOR WHO IS SUPPOSED TO BE MR.

FIX IT AND THE FACT THAT SOME OF TEASE PROBLEMS ARE JUST SO OBVIOUS AND THE IDEA THAT YOU COULD ONLY GET A VACCINE IF YOU TYPE THE FASTEST, I MEAN IS REALLY -- THE FRUSTRATION IS STARTING TO CATCH UP TO HIM AND I THINK SHE GOING TO SEE IT MORE AND MORE.

>> YOU KNOW, WHEN I THINK ABOUT THIS STORY I REFLECT BACK ON A KID IN HIGH SCHOOL WHO WAS ALWAYS SCREWING UP, WITH WAS SNARKY AND THEN MADE EVERYBODY LAUGH AND AT THE OWNED THE YEAR HE WAS VOTED THE MOST POPULAR, RIGHT?

HE IS THIS GOVERNOR WHO HAS THIS SENSE ABOUT HIM BECAUSE HE, YOU KNOW, IS DISLIKED BY PROBABLY MORE REPUBLICANS THAN SHE BY DEMOCRATS AND HE ALWAYS IS GOING SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE SO FOR THE MEDIA TO COVER HIM, HE HAS LIKE THIS GENERALLY CONTROVERSIAL FIGURE, MEDIA LIGHT THEY LOVE SOMEONE WHO IS EXTREME WHETHER ON THE LEFT OR RIGHT, AND IN ANYTHING YOU DO THEY ARE GOING TO JUMP ALL OVER IT, RIGHT?

SO HE DOESN'T APPEAR TO BE SORT OF THE EASY TARGET FOR THEM TO ATTACK MAYBE THE WAY THEY WOULD ATTACK OTHER POLITICIANS.

HAVING SAID ALL OF THAT, YOU KNOW, I THINK THIS HAS BEEN A HUGE SCREWUP IN THE STATE AND I THINK REPORTERS NEED TO STEP IT UP WHEN IT COMES TO HOW THEY COVER THE GOVERNOR, WHETHER YOU FEEL THAT WAY AS I DESCRIBED ABOUT HIM OR NOT, THEY NEED TO BE TOUGHER.

>> CALLIE ONE MORE THING ON THAT, I MEAN WHOLE THING ABOUT WE ARE NUMBER ONE, NO, WE ARE NOT.

>> I MEAN, AND THE "GLOBE" HASN'T BEEN SAYING WAIT A MINUTE, GOVERNOR AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT BECKER'S HOSPITAL REPORT IS BUT THEY UPDATE, IT IS VERY PROFESSIONAL AND UPDATE IT EVERY DAY, WE ARE NUMBER 18 AND UP FROM, YESTERDAY WE WERE NUMBER 22 BUT WE ARE NOT NUMBER ONE.

>> NO.

>> WELL, I MEAN LOOK AT THE NUMBERS THAT KEEP FLOATING AROUND THERE ON VACCINE EQUITY, 65 PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE IN THIS STATE THAT HAVE BEEN VACCINATE READY WHILE WHITE THAT'S IT FIVE PERCENT OF BLACK PEOPLE, FOUR PERCENT LATINOS, DON'T COME TO ME IT IS ALL WORKING AND WE HAVE REGGIE LEWIS, I DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT.

>> ALTHOUGH REGGIE LEWIS WILL BE OPEN THIS WEEKEND IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, NEIGHBORHOOD PEOPLE.

>> YES.

>> Rooney: WELL THE SUNDAY MORNING POLITICAL TALK SHOWS CAN SET THE NEWS AGENDA FOR THE WEEK AND SET THE BOUNDARIES FOR POLITICAL DEBATE.

SO WHY ARE THEY GIVING AIRTIME TO POLITICIANS STILL PEDAL AGO DEBUNKED CONSPIRACY THEORY THAT THREATENS THE FUTURE OF AMERICAN DEMOCRACY?

ADAM REILLY HAS MORE.

>> Reporter: ON THE MOST RECENT ABC THIS WEEK, JON KARL CLOSED AN INTERVIEW WITH REPUBLICAN WEB STEVE SCALISE WITH THIS AWKWARD QUESTION.

>> CLEAR THIS UP FOR ME.

JOE BIDEN WON THE ELECTION, HE IS THE LEGITIMATE PRESIDENT OF TO UNITED STATES.

>> SCALISE'S ANSWER?

>> NO, NOT REALLY.

>> THERE WERE A FEW STATES THAT DID NOT FOLLOW THEIR STATE LAWS, AND WHEN WE FINALLY GET BACK TO THE WAY THE RULE OF LAW WORKS MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ARE STILL CONCERNED.

>> ALL OF WHICH ELICITED THIS LIMP RESPONSE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

CONGRESSMAN STEVE SCALISE THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> EXCHANGES LIKE THAT ARE BEEN AGO TALK SHOW STAPLE AS CHARLOTTE KLEIN POINTS OUT IN A PIECE FOR "VANITY FAIR".COM.

>> EVERY SUNDAY IN SEEMS TO BE A NEW BIG LIE PUSHER COMING ON.

>> SOME HOSTS SHOW A BIT MORE GUMPTION.

>> YOU DIDN'T HAVE THE GUTS TO TELL THE TRUTH THAT THIS ELECTION WAS PAIR.

THE RESULTS WERE CERTIFIED IN EVERY SINGLE STATE OF THE COUNTS AND RECOUNTS.

STILL, KLEIN SAYS GIVING ANY AIRTIME TO ELECTION DENIALISM SUGGESTS IT IS A VALID VIEWPOINT.

>> WHETHER THE NETWORK HAS A CLIMATE DETHYROON WOULD BE LEGITIMATIZING CLAIMS THAT ARE UNFOUNDED.

>> AND SHE NOTES ELECTION DENIALISM HAS ALREADY LED TO VIOLENCE.

ONE POSSIBLE SOLUTION?

START THESE INTERVIEWS BY ASKING GUESTS IF THE ELECTION WAS LEGIT, AND IF THEY SAY NO, END THINGS RIGHT THERE.

>> THAT PERSON WOULD BE GROSSLY MISINFORMED OR ACTING IN BAD FAITH AND IN EITHER CASE YOU WOULDN'T WANT SOMEONE LIKE THAT ON YOUR SHOW.

>> UNLESS YOU ARE MORE FOCUSED ON RATINGS THAN THE TRUTH.

>> Rooney:, YOU KNOW, DAN, THE SUNDAY MORNING TALK SHOWS HAVE PRIDED THEMSELVES FOR DECADES ON BEING -- THEY ARE REACHING ACROSS THE AISLE AND TIM RUSSERT WAS THE MASTER OF THAT AND HE HAD A CIVILIZED CONVERSATION WITH PEOPLE FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE AND ALWAYS, THERE WAS ALWAYS A GIVE AND A TAKE AND AN OPINION AND AN OPINION, BUT I MEAN, YOU KNOW, STEPHANOPOULUS AND OTHERS, THERE IS NO OPINION IN THIS ONE, THE ELECTION WAS FAIR AND SO STEPHANOPOULUS IS BEING ACCUSED OF BEING BIASED BY STATING THE TRUTH BUT DO THEY HAVE TO HAVE THESE PEOPLE ON?

AREN'T THERE OTHER PEOPLE THAT, YOU KNOW, FROM THE REPUBLICAN PARTY?

WHY IS IT NECESSARY TO HAVE ELECTION DENIERS ON?

>> YEAH, I DON'T THINK THEY SHOULD HAVE THESE PEOPLE ON, I DON'T THINK THEY HAVE TO HAVE THEM ON, AS ADAM POINTED OUT DO I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY IT IS THE RATINGS YOU CREATE A LOT OF BUZZ AND THESE ARE SHOWS GENERALLY SPEAKING THAT ARE GETTING A LITTLE TIRED, YOUNGER AUDIENCES AREN'T ATTRACTED TO KNEES KIND OF SHOWS SO WHAT CAN YOU DO THAT CREATES A LITTLE BUZZ?

AND IF YOU HAVE A CONTROVERSIAL PERSON ON, THEN IT WILL DO THAT, THIS TERMS OF THE FORMAT AND THE FOLLOW-UP, I MEAN, EVEN BACK INTO TIM RUSSERT IT ALMOST SEEMS AS THEY GO INTO THESE SHOWS AND INTERVIEWS AS A CHECKLIST HERE ARE THE TEN THINGS WE WANT TO GO AFTER THEM WITH AND YOU WILL SEE THERE ARE ALWAYS QUOTES UP ON THE BOARD, ON THE SCREEN, SO THEY REALLY HAVE TO HIT ALL OF THOSE BECAUSE THESE ARE ISSUES THAT PERHAPS CAME UP THAT WEEK AND YOU NEED TO ASK THAT PERSON ABOUT IT, AND SO THAT IS WHY YOU WILL HAVE THE QUICK FOLLOW-UP AND THEN MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ONE AND THEN YOU RUN OUT OF TYPE.

THAT IS GENERALLY BEEN THE FORMAT OF THAT SHOW AND IT CONTINUES TO BE.

>> WELL THE PROBLEM IS YOU CAN'T HAVE A DEBATE IF YOU DON'T HAVE A SHARED SET OF FACTS AND WHAT THESE GUESTS HAVE BEEN DOING IS REALLY THE SAME THING THAT RUSH LIMBAUGH USED TO DO WHERE HE WOULD THROW OUT SOMETHING, WHAT IF AND THROW OUT THIS CRAZY SCENARIO, THERE ARE NO FACTS BEHIND IT, YOU ARE JUST PLANTING THE SEED, YOU CAN BACKTRACK YOURSELF AND SAY WELL I DIDN'T ACTUALLY SAY -- WHEN YOU WILL BE BACK AND SEE WHAT THOSE PEOPLE ARE SAYING, THEY TEND TO PARSE THEIR WORDS IN A WAY THEY ARE NOT, THEY ARE NOT SAYING THERE WAS FRAUD BUT THEY ARE NOT SAYING THAT THERE WASN'T FRAUD AND SO THEY OPEN UP THIS SPACE FOR THEMSELVES TO INGEST, INJECT AS THE BIG LIE INTO THE CONVERSATION AND THAT'S WHERE THE CHALLENGE IS FOR THESE NETWORKS, THEY ARE TRYING SO HARD TO FIT THEMSELVES INTO THIS THIS OR THAT DEBATE FORMAT.

BUT IT IS NOT A TRUE DEBATE.

>> AND SO I WOULD SAY THEY ARE SUFFERING FROM, YOU KNOW, OTHER SIDISM, WHERE IS THE OTHER SIDE?

WE HAVE TO FIND THAT, AND SO EVEN IF IT IS WAY OFF THE CHARTS AND NOT TRUE IT IS STILL THE OTHER SIDE AND I AM SUPPOSED TO BE THE ARBITER ON THE SIDE THAT IS TRUE.

BUT AS JOANNA WEISS SAID YOU ARE STARTING FROM A FALSE PLACE SO YOU CAN'T EVER GO FORWARD.

ALSO WHAT IS SUFFERING ARE HERE IS THAT THERE IS A CIRCLE OF PEOPLE THAT GO AROUND AND AROUND AND PEOPLE WHO BOOK THESE SHOWS APPARENTLY ARE RELUCTANT TO GO OUTSIDE OF THAT.

THIS IS WHY AND THIS MAKES ME INSANE THEY WILL FIND THE NUTTIEST BLACK PERSON ON THE PLANET, SOMEONE NO ONE HAS EVER HEARD OF, TO COME UP AND SAY, OH BLACK PEOPLE ARE CRAZY, THANK YOU SO MUCH, NOW WE HAD THE OTHER SIDE.

AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE.

DON'T BOOK THEM TO BEGIN WITH.

YOU ALREADY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO SAY, DON'T DO IT.

IT IS RIDICULOUS.

>> I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN FOLLOW THAT.

THAT WAS PRETTY GOOD.

IT IS LIKE, THE PROBLEM WITH THESE SHOWS IS ALSO JUST THEY ARE TIRED, I WORKED ON THIS LIKE TEN YEARS AGO AND THE FORMAT HASN'T CHANGED AT ALL SINCE THEN AND THE REALITY IS THAT THE WORLD HAS CHANGED, RIGHT?

YOU USED TO HAVE TO DO THESE SHOWS, THEY ARE INCREDIBLY ACCESS DRIVEN AND RELY ON PEOPLE SHOWING UP AND IT USED TO BE THAT THE REASON PEOPLE CAPE AND BEHAVED IS BECAUSE IT WAS THE ONLY WAY THEY COULD ACCESS THE AUDIENCE BUT NOW THEY HAVE A MILLION OTHER WAYS TO ACCESS THE AUDIENCE, GO ON FOX, ON TWITTER SO THEY ARE NOT PLAYING THE GAME THE SAME WAY THEY USED TO, AND THE HOSTS ARE ACTING LIKE NOTHING HAS CHANGED IN THE WORLD, LIKE I THINK THEY ARE, THERE JUST NEEDS TO BE A REEVALUATION OF WHAT THE POINT OF THESE SHOWS IS, WHAT IT IS DOING TO SERVE THE AUDIENCE IN A MEANINGFUL WAY, BECAUSE JUST HAVING SOMEONE COME ON AND SAY SOMETHING AND HAVING SOMEONE COME ON AND SAY THE OPPOSITE THING ISN'T USEFUL AT ALL.

SO I THINK IT JUST REQUIRES LIKE MORE IMAGINATION THAN THE NETWORKS HAVE REALLY BEEN WILLING TO PUT INTO IT FOR A LONG TIME.

>> Rooney: THINK THAT'S A GOOD POINT, DAN, IT USED TO BE THAT THE SUNDAY MORNING TALK SHOWS GOT EXCERPTED AS SOMEBODY MENTIONED AND DROVE THE NEWS CYCLE ALL WEEKEND LONG BUT THAT ISN'T TRUE ANYMORE BECAUSE FIRST OF ALL, I STOPPED WATCHING, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT YEAR I STOPPED WATCHING, BUT I WOULD RATHER SIT THERE AND DO THE PUZZLE AND READ THE NEWSPAPER THAN TURN ON SUNDAY MORNING TALK SHOW, I JUST DON'T DO IT ANYMORE.

>> YOU ARE RIGHT.

I HAVE TO ADMIT I HAVE STOPPED WATCHING AS WELL AND IT USED TO BE SOMETHING I WOULD NEVER MISS.

>> Rooney: SURE.

>> I WOULD WATCH ALL OF THEM.

BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS WE ARE HERE TALKING ABOUT IT, RIGHT?

>> Rooney: YES.

>> AND THE REASON WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IT IS BECAUSE OF WHAT HAPPENED ON THAT SHOW, SO THEY DO WANT TO CREATE AT LEAST SOME BUZZ AROUND THE INTERVIEWS THAT THEY HAVE ON, IF SOMEONE COMES ON AND MAKES A WHOLE LOT OF SENSE AND DOESN'T THROW ANY DUST UP IN THE AIR, THEN IT IS NOT THAT EXCITING.

>> Rooney: YOU GOT IT.

ALL RIGHT.

WELL, AS YOU HAVE NO DOUBT HEARD, GOLF GREAT TIGER WOODS WAS IN A BAD CAR CRASH IN CALIFORNIA THIS WEEK.

HE HAD SERIOUS INJURIES AND HE IS LUCKY TO BE ALIVE.

THAT IS ABOUT THE SUM OF THE STORY.

BUT YOU WOULDN'T KNOW IT FROM THE AMOUNT OF COVERAGE IT GOT.

>> IT TOOK A FEW HOURS FOR THE NEWS OF THE EARLY MORNING LA CRASH TO REACH THE AIRWAVES, BUT WHEN IT DID.

>> THIS IS OUR BREAKING NEWS, TIGER WOODS HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN A SERIOUS CAR CRASH.

>> AT WHICH POINT NEWS STATIONS PUT ALL OF THE REST OF THE NEWS ON HOLD TO REPORT THINGS LIKE THIS.

>> I HAVE HEARD NOTHING YET, OBVIOUSLY, THE PICTURES ARE HORRIFYING.

>> IT IS NOT THAT IT SUPERINTENDENT A BIG STORY, IT IS.

TIGER WOODS A DOMINANT AND TRANSFORMATIONAL FORCE IN HIS SPORT FOR DECADES, AN ICON WHO SUFFERED A SERIES I DON'T HAVE SETBACKS, MANY OF THEMSELVES INFLICTED.

ONLY TO MOUNT AN INCREDIBLE COMEBACK IN 2019.

>> HIS COMEBACK EPIC, WINNING HIS FIRST MAJOR TOURNAMENT SINCE 2008.

>> STILL COVERAGE THIS WEEK WAS OVER THE TOP.

HOURS AFTER IT WAS CLEAR THAT WOODS' INJURIES WERE NOT LIFE-THREATENING ABC DEVOTED THE FIRST TEN MINUTES OF ITS NEWSCAST TO EVERY MINUTIA OF THE ACCIDENT.

>> LOCALS IN THIS UPSCALE SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA COMMUNITY CALLED THE ROAD NOTORIOUSLY DANGEROUS.

>> AND OF COURSE EVERYONE RETRACED ALL OF WOODS' PRIOR MISSTEPS.

>> YOU KNOW WHERE YOU ARE GOING?

>> WELL INTO THE EVENING, CABLE STATION WERE STILL CALLING THE REHASHED DETAILS OF THE ACCIDENT BREAKING NEWS.

>> YES, WE DO HAVE BREAKING NEWS.

THE LATEST ON TIGER WOODS.

>> OVER ON FOX, THERE WAS THE LONE DISSENTING VOICE OF GREG GUT FED.

>> YOU THINK EVERYBODY WANTS TO HEAR ABOUT THIS FOR AN HOUR?

I KNOW OUR JOB IS TO OVERSTATE INCIDENT LIKE THIS, IF WE DON'T OVERSTATE IT, PEOPLE MIGHT CHANGE THE CHANNEL.

>> Rooney: WHICH IS EXACTLY WHY WE GOT WHAT WE DID.

>> YOU KNOW, JOANNA, IN RETROSPECT A FEW DAYS LATER THE COVERAGE HAS DEFINITELY TAMPED DOWN, I READ A PAGE FROM A COLUMNIST ESSENTIALLY THIS WAS WITH NOT AN ACCIDENT, IT WAS A CAR CRASH, EVERY SINGLE INCIDENT THAT CONTRIBUTED TO THE DOWN ALL OF OF TIGER WOODS HAS BEEN HIS FAULT, HIS RESPONSIBILITY, SO, YEAH, WE CARE ABOUT HIM, HE IS AN A ICON, SEA BELOVED FIGURE, BUT, YOU KNOW, HE -- IT IS NOT LIKE SOME TERRIBLE THING HAPPENED TO HIM AND HE ALMOST DIED.

HE ALMOST KILLED HIMSELF.

>> WELL, THAT MAY BE A PART OF IT IS THE NATURE OF HIS CELEBRITY IS NOT JUST THAT HE IS A TERRIFIC SPORTS FIGURE, IT IS NOT EVEN JUST THAT HE IS, YOU KNOW, A SYMBOL FOR THE BLACK AND ASIAN COMMUNITY, BUT IT IS THE FACT THAT HE HAS BEEN PART OF ALL OF THIS DRAMA AND THIS UP AND DOWN.

>> Rooney: YEAH.

>> AT A TIME WHEN I THINK THERE IS AN APPETITE TO TURN THE PAGE TO SOME DEGREE, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THERE IS SO MUCH NEWS ABOUT COVID FOR ALL OF THE GOOD REASONS, ALL OF THE RIGHT REASONS THERE IS SO MUCH, THERE IS IS SO MUCH POLITICAL NEWS AND SO MUCH -- NEWS I THINK THE IDEA THAT SOMETHING DIFFERENT CAME ABOUT, UNFORTUNATELY, YOU KNOW, WHEN, OFTEN WHEN YOU WATCH THE END OF GREG GUT FED'S FRUSTRATIONS OR HIS FRANCE, YOU FOUND OUT THAT ONE OF HIS RELATIVES ACTUALLY DIED IN A CAR CRASH, I MEAN, HE WAS EXPRESSING FRUSTRATION THAT SOME DID THERE IS A LOT OF TRAGEDY OUT THERE AND THIS IS OVER COVERED AND ALSO UNDERCOVERED.

>> Rooney: I DIDN'T KNOW THAT.

>> I WILL SAY THAT IN THE INITIAL HOURS AFTER IT HAPPENED, IT WAS LEGITIMATE TO COVER IT THE WAY THAT IT WAS COVERED AND HERE IS THE REASON WHY.

AS YOU MENTIONED THERE WERE ALL OF THESE CASES AROUND TIGER, I MEAN WE USED TO THINK OF TIGER ASSORT OF THE PERFECT, YOU KNOW, GLOBAL GOLF PLAYER AND THEN HE GETS INTO, YOU KNOW, THE CRASH WITH HIS SUV AND THEN HE GETS ARRESTED WITH PRESCRIPTION DRUGS AND THAT WHOLE ISSUE.

NOW EVERY TIME WE HEAR SOMETHING HAPPEN WITH TIGER WOODS WE WONDER, WELL, COULD BIT, WHAT WAS HE DOING?

MY FIRST THOUGHT WHEN I HEARD ABOUT THIS, WHAT WAS HE DOING AT THIS HOTEL?

WHY WAS HE LEAVING SO EARLY IN THE MORNING?

I STARTED PAINTING A PICTURE ALREADY OF SOMETHING NEFARIOUS GOING ON AT THE HOTEL AND I WAS CERTAIN THAT THEY WOULD FIND OUT THAT MAYBE THERE WAS SOMETHING IN HIS SYSTEM, RADIO SUBMITTING SO I THINK IF I WAS THINKING THAT WAY, THAT MAYBE EVERYONE ELSE WAS THINKING THAT WAY AND NEWSROOMS ARE THINKING THAT THE PUBLIC IS THINKING THAT WAY, SO WE REALLY NEED TO BE ON TOP OF THIS STORY.

SO WHEN THOSE DETAILS COME OUT WE WILL BE ABLE TO BRING THEM TO YOU.

SO I THINK, AGAIN, THE FIRST FEW HOURS, I GET IT, WHEN YOU ARE DOING THE NIGHTLY RECAP AND YOU ARE SPENDING TEN MINUTES ON IT, IT IS WAY OVERBOARD, THEN AGAIN THAT'S WHAT WE DO WITH CELEBRITY STORIES.

>> Rooney: YES.

>> I AGREE WITH DAN.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, TIGER WOODS IS OBVIOUSLY A TRANSFORM AT THIS SORT OF, TRANSFORMATIVE ATHLETE, GOLF HAS BEEN THIS AREA WHERE WHITE PEOPLE EXCLUDED PEOPLE OF COLOR AND WOMEN AND SO HE SORT OF OPENED UP THIS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT CONVERSATION ABOUT SORT OF OPPORTUNITIES FOR BLACK ATHLETES AND BLACK PEOPLE, SO, YOU KNOW, HE IS DEFINITELY A FIGURE WORTHY OF EXAMINATION, BUT YOU KNOW, I THINK WHAT HAPPENS IN A LOT OF THESE CASES LIKE EVENING NEWS SHOWS SCHEDULE THEIR DAY AT AROUND 2:00 AND AS THE DAY PROGRESSES MAYBE THE STORY IS STILL NOT AS BIG OF AT THAT STORY A AND THEY ARE JUST SORT OF SINGLE MIND I WILL MOVING DOWN THAT TRACK AND THEY DON'T THINK TO .. SWITCH GEARS, BUT I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT THIS IS PROBABLY THE ONLY TIME THAT GREG GUT FED HAS BEEN THE VOICE OF REASON.

>> Rooney: HA, HA, HA.

>> I MEAN, THERE IS A LOT OF OTHER THINGS GOING ON, BUT YESTERDAY FOX NEWS SPENT TODAY LOOKING AT WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS WRONG THAT MR.

POTATO HEAD WAS JUST GOING TO BE CALLED POTATO HEAD FOR A WHILE SO I AM NOT SURE THAT THE FIVE IS WHERE I WANT TO GET MY MEDIA ETHICS, FOR THE RECORD.

[LAUGHTER] >> SO I THINK THERE WAS A REASON FOR WHAT APPEARS TO BE OVER COVERAGE WHAT EVERYBODY SAID ABOUT ALL OF HIS BAD BEHAVIOR IN THE PAST AND WAS THAT CONNECTED TO IT.

THERE IS SOME OF THE PIONEERING SHE THE FIRST BLACK PERSON, MOSTLY WHITE SPACE, BUT HE DOESN'T ACCEPT THAT, SO FOR ME I COME AT THE NEWS TOTALLY DIFFERENTLY, HE IS A RELUCTANT PIONEER, HE HAS GOT SOME SKETCHY POLITICS AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED WHICH PUTS HIM ON A DIFFERENT PLANE BUT FOR ME WHAT MADE IT NEED TO GO A LITTLE LONG SEARCH THAT HE IS HAVING SAID ALL OF THAT A MAGNIFICENT ATHLETE AND THIS COULD BE THE END OF HIS CAREER.

SO THE REPORTING WHEN IT GOT TO THE POINT OF UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE INJURIES ARE, WOULD SEEM SMALL, BUT ACTUALLY THE MAN WAS JUST COMING OUT OF A BACK SURGERY SO THIS COULD BE IT FOR HIM.

THAT IS MAKING A STATEMENT.

>> Rooney: OKAY WE ARE GOING TO DO AN ABBREVIATED RAPT AND RAVE THIS WEEK, SO ABBREVIATED I AM THE ONLY ONE GOING TO DO SOMETHING AND THIS WILL EVENTUALLY BE A RAVE FOR THE "WASHINGTON POST".

SO HERE IS WHAT HAPPENED.

THIS WEEK A WOMAN NAMED NEAR ARE A TANDEM UP FOR THE OFFICE OF, OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET AND HAD TO BE CONFIRMED BY THE SENATE ..

SO REPORTERS WERE CHASING PEOPLE AROUND THE SENATE TODAY WONDERING THIS WEEK WONDERING WHO WAS GOING SUPPORT MS. TANDEM SO A REPORTER FOR THE "WASHINGTON POST" SUNG MIN KIM APPROACHED LISA MURKOWSKI, A REPUBLICAN FROM ALASKA, AND ASKED HER IF SHE WAS GOING TO SUPPORT MS. TANDEM SHE DIDN'T KNOW AND OH BY THE WAY HAVE YOU SEEN THIS TWEET THAT THIS, SHE WROTE ABOUT YOU YEARS AGO?

WROTE ABOUT YOU, LISA MURKOWSKI, NO, LET ME SEE IT, SHE SHOWS IT TO HER AND THEN A LOT OF PEOPLE SAW HER SHOW IT AND IT BECAME THIS TREMENDOUS BACKLASH AND, YOU KNOW, SUNG MIN KIM WAS CALLED ALL OF THESE RACIST AND SEXIST AND HORRIBLE THINGS BUT TO THE "WASHINGTON POST" CREDIT THEY RELEASED A STATEMENT THAT READS IN PART, WHAT SHE DID WAS BASIC JOURNALISM, REPORTING ABOUT TANDEM'S TWEET HE ASKED MURKOWSKI FOR COMMENT, MURKOWSKI HAD NOT SEEN THE TREAT AND SHOWED IT TO HER THIS IS STANDARD PRACTICE AND THAT IS CORRECT, IT IS.

EVEN THOUGH THE TWEET WAS OLD, SHE DID THE RIGHT THING.

ANYWAY, SO CONGRATULATIONS TO THE "WASHINGTON POST" AND EXECUTIVE EDITOR OF THE POLITICAL FOR DOING THAT AND I WANT TO MAKE NOTE TONIGHT THAT THE EXECUTIVE EDITOR OF TO "WASHINGTON POST" MARTY BARON WHO IS ALSO OF COURSE THE EXECUTIVE EDITOR HERE AT THE "BOSTON GLOBE" IS LEAVING SUNDAY, HIS LAST DAY AT THE PAPER, HE IS GOING TO CLEAR OUT HIS OFFICE AND OF COURSE HE LEAVES AN INCREDIBLE LEGACY, ANYBODY WHO, ANYBODY WITH A WANT 0 TO COMMENT ON THAT?

I WILL START WITH YOU, CALLIE?

>> ME?

, WELL, YOU KNOW, HE WAS OVER THE COVERAGE OF THE SPOTLIGHT TEAM.

>> Rooney: YEAH.

>> THAT DID THE INCREDIBLE CHURCH COVERAGE WHICH, YOU KNOW, NOBODY CAN FORGET THAT.

MANY OTHER IMPORTANT STORIES AS WELL, IT JUST, HE JUST HAS BEEN A HARD DRIVER THIS WHOLE TIME.

I THINK WHEN HE TOOK OVER THE "WASHINGTON POST" AND ALL -- EVERYBODY, ALL OF THE NEWS OR OPERATIONS WERE IN KIND OF A FINANCIAL DOWNTURN BECAUSE OF THE WAY IT WAS, HE BROUGHT IT BACK UP AND EMPHASIZED JOURNALISM, WHENNING THEY GOT THE PUSHBACK FROM THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HE SAID WE ARE HERE TO DO OUR WORK.

THAT'S WHAT WE ARE HERE TO DO.

WE WILL CONTINUE TO DO THAT.

SO, YOU KNOW, HE HAS GOT A LEGACY HE CAN BE PROUD OF.

>> Rooney: I DON'T ANNA, YOU WORKED FOR THE "GLOBE".

>> I DID, I WAS WORKING AT THE "GLOBE" WHEN MARTY BARON CAME TO BE EDITOR AND HAD COME FROM MIAMI BY WAY OF NEW YORK AND HERE IS THIS OUT OF TOWN GUY WHO CAME IN AND, YOU KNOW, THE MOVIE SPOTLIGHT GOT IT EXACTLY RIGHT.

HE HAD NO SACRED COWS AND HE SHOOK UP BOSTON AND, YOU KNOW, WOULD GO ON TO BRING THAT UNPARALLELED JOURNALISM TO WASHINGTON.

ALSO IF YOU SAW THE MOVIE SPOTLIGHT, SCHREIBER GOT HER PERFECTLY, A LITTLE UNCANNY ..

THE LINE ABOUT MARTY HAS BEEN THE JOY LESS PURSUIT OF EXCELLENCE, AND HE KIND OF GOES ALONG WITH THAT, YEAH, IT IS TRUE.

AND THAT'S IT FOR OUR SHOW.

TELL US WHAT YOU THINK, E-MAIL US, TWEET US, SEND US A COMMENT, I AM EMILY ROONEY, THANKS FOR WATCHING.

>> Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org