CRYSTAL: HI, EVERYBODY.

TONIGHT ON RITTER BOSTON, GOVERNOR MAURA HEALEY IS CALLING ON STEWARD HEALTH CARE TO GET OUT OF MASSACHUSETTS AS THE FINANCIAL CRISIS TAKES A TOLL ACROSS THE STATE.

WHAT WILL THAT LOOK LIKE AND HOW IS THIS ALL AFFECTING PATIENTS?

PLUS, MORE ELITE COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES ARE DOING AWAY WITH THE PANDEMIC ERA PAUL ON SAT REQUIREMENTS.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR LOWER INCOME STUDENTS APPLYING FOR ADMISSION?

AND FINALLY, WHAT IS A HEARING DOG, A LOCAL WOMAN WHO LOST PART OF HER HEARING INTRODUCES US TO HER SERVICE PUP.

AS STEWARD HEALTH CARE’S FINANCIAL STRUGGLES WORSEN, GOVERNOR MAURA HEALEY IS SENDING A CLEAR MESSAGE.

GET OUT OF OUR STATE.

THE FOR-PROFIT NETWORK IS BURIED IN DEBT AND IS BEHIND ON KEY PAYMENTS.

HEALY SAYS STEWARD HAS NOT BEEN FORTHCOMING WITH DOCUMENTS THEY ARE REQUIRED TO SHARE WITH THE STATE.

THAT HAS LEFT STATE LEADERS INCREASINGLY UNSURE ABOUT THE FUTURE OF MASSACHUSETTS HEALTH CARE AS THE IMPACT OF THE CRISIS RIPPLES OUT TO OTHER HOSPITALS ACROSS THE STATE.

JOINING ME TO DISCUSS OUR GREAT WILL, PRESIDENT AND CEO OF THE EAST BOSTON NEIGHBORHOOD HEALTH CENTER, TIM QUIGLEY, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT OF SPECIAL PROJECTS FOR SOUTH SHORE HEALTH IN ALLEN SAKER, DIRECTOR OF THE HEALTH REFORM PROGRAM AT BOSTON UNIVERSITY.

THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.

GREG, WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS OFF-CAMERA IN TERMS OF THE RIPPLE EFFECT FOR PATIENTS.

I WONDER IF YOU COULD SPEAK TO THAT.

GREG: THANK YOU.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THE MASSACHUSETTS HEALTH SYSTEM IS A FRAGILE ECOSYSTEM.

ANY SIGNIFICANT IMPACT TO ACCESS IS GOING TO HAVE A DOWNSTREAM IMPACT ON OTHER HOSPITALS, OTHER ACCESS POINTS IN OUR SYSTEM.

THAT IS THE MAJOR CONCERN RIGHT NOW IS, WHAT IS THE DOWNSTREAM EFFECT WE ARE GOING TO EXPERIENCE IN COMMUNITIES OF COLOR, A COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE STATE, EMERGENCY ROOM ACCESS AND IN PATIENT BEDS?

CRYSTAL: DO YOU ANTICIPATE IF STEWARD DOES START PULLING DOWN FACILITIES YOU WILL HAVE TO PICK UP THE PATIENT LOAD?

GREG: ABSOLUTELY.

JUST ON RECENT DATA, SOME OF THE BOSTON AREA HOSPITALS IN TERMS OF THE EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT VISITS -- PROBABLY 45,000 EMERGENCY VISITS.

WHERE THERE IS GOING TO GO?

THEY GOING TO GO TO OTHER HOSPITALS IN ORGANIZATIONS LIKE THE EAST BOSTON NEIGHBORHOOD HEALTH CENTER.

WE OPERATE THE ONLY SATELLITE EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT FACILITY IN THE STATE.

.

WILL SEE INCREASED VOLUME.

CRYSTAL: I RECENTLY WATCHED THE BOSTON’S CITY COUNCIL MEETING ON THIS TOPIC.

YOU MADE AN INTERESTING COMMENT.

HE SAID STATE OFFICIALS ARE CLEAR ABOUT WHAT THEY WILL NOT DO RATHER THAN WHAT THEY WILL DO.

I WONDER IF YOU COULD EXPLAIN ABOUT THAT.

ALAN: THAT IS RIGHT.

STATE GOVERNMENT HAS SAID NO MONEY FOR STEWARD FOR EXAMPLE.

THE REAL CHALLENGE IS, CAN STATE GOVERNMENT QUICKLY PICK UP THE TOOLS IT NEEDS TO STABILIZE EVERY HOSPITAL, ESPECIALLY THE STEWARD ONES?

TOO LONG IN THE PAST FOR TOO LONG, STATE GOVERNMENT HAS LURCHED FROM ONE CRISIS TO ANOTHER.

WE NEED KNOWLEDGE.

WE NEED LEGAL POWER.

WE NEED MONEY IN STATE GOVERNMENT.

KNOWLEDGE OF WHICH HOSPITALS ARE NEED WHERE.

THE LEGAL POWER TO PETITION A JUDGE TO PUT A HOSPITAL IN RECEIVERSHIP WHEN IT IS NEEDED AND ON THE ROPES.

THIRD, AN EMERGENCY HOSPITAL STABILIZATION FUND FINANCED BY TINY ASSESSMENTS ON HOSPITALS THEMSELVES THAT WILL ACT AS AN INSURANCE POLICY.

CRYSTAL: I’M CURIOUS ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK THE IMPACT ON PATIENTS WILL BE.

TIM: I AGREE WITH WHAT GREG SAID BEFORE I THINK 70.

PERCENT -- WHAT GREG SAID BEFORE.

70% OF PATIENTS COME THROUGH THE EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT.

GROUND ZERO, THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE IS THE ED.

THE REDISTRIBUTION OF VOLUME GREG TALKED ABOUT.

I THINK THE PRIMARY CARE ISSUE AND SPECIALTY ISSUES PLAY TO DRIVE PEOPLE TOWARD THE EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT.

PEOPLE ARRIVE LESS WELL PREPARED WITH MORE ADVANCED DISEASES AS OPPOSED TO GOING UPSTREAM.

SOUTH SHORE FOR EXAMPLE IN THIS REGION, WE HAVE HAD QUINCY HOSPITAL CLOSE AND NORWOOD CLOSE BECAUSE OF A FLOOD.

WE ALSO HAD THE UNFORTUNATE FIRE AT SIGNATURE BROCKTON.

PLUS 200 BEDS IN THE REGION.

A BUSY ED THERE.

WE HAD COMPASS MEDICAL GROUP CLOSE ABRUPTLY WHICH RESTRICTED ACCESS TO A LOT OF PRIMARY CARE AND SPECIALTY PIECES.

I COULD NOT AGREE WITH GREG MOORE AND DR. SAGER MORE.

I THINK THE STATE IS WORKING FURIOUSLY ON THIS.

THERE IS A LOT OF GROUND TO COVER IN SHORT TIME.

CRYSTAL: ONE OF THE CRITICS -- A LOT OF THE CRITICS HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS WAS PREVENTABLE.

SOME OF THIS HAS BEEN SEEN COMING DOWN THE PIKE HERE.

YOU SPOKE TO THIS BEFORE THAT A LOT OF WHAT WE ARE SEEING WITH STEWARD WAS PREVENTABLE.

ALAN: IT WAS PREVENTABLE.

THE ORIGINAL SALE OF THE CHRISTIE HOSPITALS WAS A MISTAKE.

I DON’T THINK THEN ATTORNEY GENERAL COAKLEY SHOULD HAVE APPROVED IT.

I DON’T THINK SHE HAD THE GUARANTEES THAT WERE NEEDED.

THE ARCHDIOCESE WAS DESPERATELY ANXIOUS FOR UNDERSTANDABLE REASONS TO GET OUT OF OWNING HOSPITALS.

THEN ATTORNEY GENERAL ALLOWED STEWARD TO PURCHASE AS A WAY OF PATCHING THINGS TOGETHER.

IF YOU STUMBLE FROM ONE CRISIS TO ANOTHER, YOU DON’T REALLY FIX THE PROBLEM.

IN A WAY, THAT IS CRAZY BECAUSE HEALTH CARE SPENDING IN THE COUNTRY IS FIVE TIMES DEFENSE SPENDING.

MASSACHUSETTS THIS YEAR WILL SEE OUR HOSPITALS SPEND $45 BILLION ALONE.

$125 BILLION ON HEALTH CARE OVERALL.

THAT IS $18,000 PER CITIZEN.

IT IS ENOUGH TO DO THE JOB.

CRYSTAL: THAT IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

I WANT TO PULL UP A FIGURE HERE FROM DECEMBER 2023.

A STUDY FROM THE JOURNAL OF THE AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION SHOWED PRIVATE EQUITY ACQUISITION OF HOSPITALS ON AVERAGE ARE ASSOCIATED WITH INCREASED HOSPITAL ACQUIRED ADVERSE EVENTS DESPITE A LIKELY LOWER RISK POOL OF ADMITTED MEDICARE BENEFICIARIES SUGGESTING POOR QUALITY OF INPATIENT CARE.

I’M CURIOUS WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THIS IMPENDING CLOSURE AND WHAT THE DOMINO EFFECT WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT, WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE.

IS THERE A CONCERN YOU ARE GOING TO HIT CAPACITY AND NOT BE ABLE TO TREAT PATIENTS THE WAY YOU WANT TO?

GREG: IT IS A GREAT QUESTION.

IT IS A FRAGILE SYSTEM TIERED WE KNOW ANY CHANGE IN ACCESS IS GOING TO HAVE AN IMPACT.

THE HOPE IS WITH TIME AND INTENTIONALITY, WE CAN PLAN FOR WHERE THOSE IMPACTS WILL BE FELT AND BE ABLE TO TAKE MEASURES TO INTERVENE.

THAT MIGHT COME IN THE FORM OF HOW TO EXPAND PRIMARY CARE, HOW DO WE INVEST IN COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTERS, I DO EXPECT CAPACITY AT AREA HOSPITALS.

THERE ARE A NUMBER OF WAYS FOR US TO GET AHEAD OF THIS KIND OF IMPACTING PATIENTS.

THAT IS THE CONCERN IS, IF WE ARE NOT ABLE TO GET IN FRONT OF THIS EARLY ENOUGH, WE ARE GOING TO START TO SEE IMPACTS TO PATIENTS.

ULTIMATELY, PARTICULARLY FOR COMMUNITIES LIKE THOSE SERVED BY THE EAST BOSTON NEIGHBORHOOD HEALTH CENTER, LARGELY BLACK AND BROWN PATIENTS.

THE EQUITY ISSUES WE HAVE WORKING SO HARD TO CLOSE, THOSE WILL OVER TIME BE FURTHER EXACERBATED.

I THINK WITH A PLANTED APPROACH, WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO COURSE CORRECT.

CRYSTAL: YOU MENTIONED THE HOSPITALS AND HEALTH CARE FACILITIES CLOSED IN YOUR REGION.

HOW DO YOU PLAN FOR ANOTHER POTENTIAL SITUATION, AND OTHER HOSPITAL SYSTEM CLOSING DOWN?

TIM: WE WORKED WITH THE STATE TO HAVE THOSE CONVENING -- THEY HAVE ACT AS A CONVENE OR TO GET PEOPLE AROUND THE TABLE.

LIKE WHAT GREG SAID WITH THE COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTERS.

IT IS IN AN ECOSYSTEM.

IT IS NOT JUST THE HOSPITAL SIDE.

PRIMARY CARE ACCESS, URGENT CARE PIECES, SPECIALTY CARE.

THOSE PIECES NEED TO BE CONSIDERED.

YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT A MORE CENTRAL APPROACH AND WHAT IS RATIONAL.

FOR AN ALLOCATION OF RESOURCES AND TRY TO FIGURE OUT, WHAT IS THE RIGHT WAY TO ALLOCATE RESOURCES TO GET THE BEST POSSIBLE OUTCOME FOR PATIENTS?

PEDIATRIC PROGRAMS, SPECIALTY SURGICAL PROGRAMS, THERE IS JUST A LOT OF MOVING PARTS.

IT IS A COMPLEX SYSTEM.

THE ECOSYSTEM METAPHOR IS A GREAT ONE.

I THINK YOU HAVE TO SIT WITH DATA AND PLAN THIS OUT.

I COULD NOT AGREE MORE WITH DR. SAGER.

WE ARE SPENDING AS A COUNTRY THE MONEY BUT NOT GETTING THE OUTCOMES THAT INVESTMENT WOULD NORMALLY RETURN AND I THINK THAT IS A MAJOR DISCUSSION ABOUT CHOICE AND NETWORKS AND HOW OUR SYSTEM HAS EVOLVED RIGHT NOW, IT IS REACTIVE AND NOT RATIONALLY PLANNED OUT.

YOUR POINT EARLIER IS A GREAT ONE.

WHAT IS THE ROLE OF PRIVATE EQUITY AND STUFF.

RETURN ON INVESTMENT AND HOW THAT FITS FOR CARING FOR PATIENTS IN MEETING THEM WHERE THEY ARE AT IS AN INTERESTING SOCIAL CONVERSATION AND A SOCIAL JUSTICE CONVERSATION TO HAVE FRANKLY.

CRYSTAL: I WANT TO GIVE YOU SECOND TO RESPOND.

I’M THOUGHTFUL ABOUT WHEN WE ARE USING THESE TERMS FROM THE BUSINESS WORLD WHEN TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO MAY HAVE CHRONIC ILLNESSES OR PEOPLE WHO WERE SET UP FROM THE BEGINNING TO NOT WALK INTO THE BEST HEALTH AND NEED THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM, TALKING ABOUT RETURN INVESTMENTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT AND HAVING FOR-PROFIT HOSPITALS, IT SEEMS ANTITHETICAL TO THE ACTUAL PRACTICE OF MEDICINE AND OPERATING HOSPITALS.

I WILL ASK YOU, AS WE LOOK FORWARD TO WHATEVER THE PLAN THAT STEWARD HEALTH IS GOING TO TELL US ABOUT, WE KNOW THE GOVERNOR WANTS THEM OUT COMPLETELY.

WHAT DO WE NEED TO BE DOING AS A STATE IN TERMS OF LEARNING OUR LESSON ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED HERE?

ALAN: THE STATE HAS TO STOP SLEEPWALKING FROM ONE CRISIS TO ANOTHER.

FOR DECADES, WE HAVE BEEN -- SOME PEOPLE HAVE SEDUCED STATE GOVERNMENT INTO THINKING ALL YOU NEED IS WATCHFUL WAITING.

IF YOU ARE AWAKE FOR OUR AFTER HOUR, YOU FALL ASLEEP.

THEY GOVERNMENT HAS TO PAY ATTENTION.

IT HAS TO RECOGNIZE THERE IS NO FUNCTIONING FREE-MARKET IN HEALTH CARE.

COMPETITION AND PROFITS ARE NOT LEGITIMATE.

WHEN YOU DON’T HAVE A FUNCTIONING FREE-MARKET OR COMPETENT STATE GOVERNMENT, YOU HAVE ANARCHY.

THAT IS HOW WE MANAGED TO SPEND SO MUCH AND WHAT HAS BEEN CALLED ON THE PROGRAM TODAY A FRAGILE SYSTEM.

WE TALK MUCH MORE THAN WE ACT.

STATE GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO STOP IGNORING THE PROBLEM.

JUST PATCHING TOGETHER CLICK SOLUTIONS THAT ARE NOT DURABLE.

INSTEAD, STEP BACK AND FIGURE OUT, HOW DO WE CARE FOR 7 MILLION PEOPLE?

RECOGNIZE THIS IS THE EASIEST PROBLEM -- NOT EASY BUT EASIER THAN ANY OF THE OTHERS.

THE EASIEST PROBLEM TO FIX BECAUSE IT IS THE ONLY ONE ON WHICH WE ALREADY SPEND ENOUGH MONEY.

CRYSTAL: CERTAINLY LOTS TO BREAK DOWN HERE.

GREG WILMOT, TIM QUICKLY AND ALAN SAGER.

STANDARDIZED TESTING IS MAKING A COMEBACK IN COLLEGE ADMISSIONS.

YALE IS REVERSING A PANDEMIC ERA POLICY THAT DID AWAY WITH SAT AND ACT REQUIREMENTS FOR APPLICANTS.

JOINING DARTMOUTH, M.I.T.

AND SEVERAL OTHER TOP COLLEGES.

UNIVERSITIES SAY THE REMOVAL OF THE TESTING REQUIREMENTS PUT LOW INCOME STUDENTS AT A DISADVANTAGE BUT CRITICS SAY THE OPPOSITE IS TRUE.

GBH NEWS HIGHER EDUCATION IMAGING EDITOR AND CORRESPONDENT KIRK CARAPEZZA HAS BEEN COVERING THIS STORY CLOSELY.

HE JOINS ME TO DISCUSS ALONG WITH NATASHA WARIKOO, A PROFESSOR OF SOCIOLOGY AT TUFTS UNIVERSITY WHICH HAS EXTENDED ITS STEPS IN -- EXTENDED ITS TESTING OPTIONAL POLICY.

WELCOME TO YOU BOTH.

LET ME ASK YOU THIS.

WE COULD COME OUT AND ASK THIS QUESTION.

DOES STANDARDIZED TESTING ADMISSIONS HELP OR HURT LOWER INCOME STUDENTS?

KIRK: IT DEPENDS WHO YOU ASK.

THESE POLICIES WILL AFFECT SPECTER OF STUDENTS FOR THE CLASS OF 29.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO STEP BACK AND BOOKED AT WHY THE SCHOOLS WENT TEST OPTIONAL FIRST.

IT WAS DURING COVID.

YOU COULD NOT PHYSICALLY TAKE THE TEST.

THIS WAS A WAY TO LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD.

THIS WAS AROUND THE TIME THE SUPREME COURT RULED AGAINST HARVARD AND THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA AND SAID THEY CANNOT CONSIDER RACE IN ADMISSIONS.

THE COLLEGES AT FIRST SAID THESE TESTS CAN SIGNAL A FAMILIES INCOME, HIGH INCOME FAMILIES TEND TO HAVE HIGHER TEST SCORES.

THE SCHOOLS, DARTMOUTH, NOW YALE AND THERE IS A STUDY OUT OF HARVARD THAT FOUND HIGH SCORES FROM LESS ADVANTAGED STUDENTS CAN SIGNAL HIGH POTENTIAL IN COLLEGE.

CRYSTAL: YOU WRITE EXTENSIVELY ON THIS TOPIC IN TERMS OF STANDARDIZED TESTING AND LOW INCOME STUDENTS AND THE EFFECTS IN THE SYSTEM.

NATASHA: I THINK THIS ISSUE IS INCREDIBLY COMPLICATED AND I THINK ANYONE WHO SAYS DEFINITELY WE NEED THE TEST OR ABSOLUTELY NO TEST I AM A LITTLE SKEPTICAL.

I SAY THIS BECAUSE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE DATA IT POINTS IN ALL KINDS OF DIRECTIONS.

IT IS TRUE AT SOME COLLEGES THEY HAVE LOOKED AT THEIR DATA AND THERE ARE LOW INCOME STUDENTS WHO DID NOT GIVE THEIR TEST SCORES THAT MAY HAVE GOTTEN THEM IN.

ON THE OTHER HAND, WE KNOW WHEN THERE IS A TESTING REQUIREMENT AND A STUDENT LOOKS AT THE BAND ED SAYS THE 25TH AND 75TH PERCENTILE ARE THE SCORES THAT ARE WAY BEYOND IT I ACHIEVED, I’M NOT EVEN GOING TO APPLY, THAT ALSO HAPPENS.

SO WHICH OF THOSE MAY BALANCE EACH OTHER OUT AND WE DON’T REALLY KNOW HOW STUDENTS ARE GOING TO BEHAVE WHEN A POLICY CHANGES.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO KEEP THAT IN MIND.

THERE IS NO PERFECT SOLUTION.

M.I.T.

WENT BACK TO THE TEST.

CALTECH WENT IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION.

THEY SAID WE ARE NOT GOING TO LOOK AT TEST SCORES EVEN IF YOU SUBMIT IT BECAUSE WE -- THEY SAID IN THEIR DATA THEY FOUND THEY FOUND VERY LITTLE DIFFERENCE IN TERMS OF GRADES BETWEEN PEOPLE WHO SUBMITTED AND WHO DID NOT.

BY SUBSEQUENT YEARS, THOUGH STUDENTS DID JUST AS WELL.

I REALLY THINK ANYONE WHO SAYS THERE IS A SIMPLE SOLUTION TO THIS IS MISSING PART OF THE STORY.

KIRK: THERE IS TEST OPTIONAL AND THERE IS TEST BLIND LIKE YOU DESCRIBED IN CALIFORNIA.

THERE IS ALSO TEST FLEXIBLE WHICH IS WHAT YALE DID.

THEY ARE REQUIRING STUDENTS TO SUBMIT THEIR SPORES BUT YOU CAN ALSO SUBMIT AP EXAMS INSTEAD.

CODEX WILL SAY THAT STILL BENEFITS HIGH INCOME FAMILIES.

CRYSTAL: THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO THE PRETEST AND THEY CAN AFFORD THE TUTORS.

KIRK: THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF ADVANTAGES BAKED INTO THE SYSTEM.

CRYSTAL: HOW DOES IT AFFECT THE DIVERSITY OF THE SCHOOL POPULATION?

THAT IS SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN TOP OF MIND.

KIRK: WE’RE TALKING ABOUT TWO THINGS.

ECONOMIC DIVERSITY AND THE SCHOOLS THAT ARE GOING BACK -- REQUIRING THESE TEST SCORES ARE SAYING THIS WILL LEAD TO GREATER ECONOMIC DIVERSITY ON CAMPUS IS THAT LACK IT.

WHEN IT COMES TO RACIAL DIVERSITY, IT IS UP IN THE AIR.

IF THE STUDENTS ARE LESS LIKELY TO APPLY BECAUSE THERE IS A TESTING REQUIREMENT, THE APPLICANT POOL WILL BE LESS DIVERSE.

CRYSTAL: SPEAK MORE ON THAT IN TERMS OF HOW COULD THIS AFFECT DIVERSITY OF THE STUDENT POPULATION IF WE ARE GOING BY RACE OR EVEN BITE INCOME?

NATASHA: THE BOTTOM LINE IS WE DON’T KNOW.

WE DON’T KNOW HOW THIS IS GOING TO AFFECT STUDENT BEHAVIOR.

IN AN IDEAL WORLD, STUDENTS WOULD HAVE PERFECT INFORMATION, COLLEGES WOULD TELL THEM IF YOU LIVE IN THESE PARTICULAR NEIGHBORHOODS WITH THIS MEDIAN HOUSEHOLD INCOME, YOU NEED THE SCORE TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY.

IT IS MUCH MORE HOLISTIC.

THEY’RE WORRIED ABOUT BEING SUED BECAUSE OF THE RECENT AFFIRMATIVE ACTION DECISION.

THERE IS A LOT OF OPACITY.

I THINK THE IDEA WE CAN GET IT RIGHT AND I THINK THE OTHER THING TO THINK ABOUT IS WHEN THE COLLEGES ARE SAYING WE WANT TO KNOW WHICH OF THE LOW INCOME STUDENTS TO ADMIT AND THE SAT WILL HELP US, MY ANSWER IS ADMIT BOTH OF THEM.

ADMIT ALL OF THEM.

THE COLLEGES HAVE DONE A PRETTY POOR JOB OF ADMITTING LOW INCOME STUDENTS, POOR STUDENTS, UNDERREPRESENTED MINORITIES.

EVEN MIDDLE-CLASS STUDENTS.

THE REALITY IS THEY ARE SPENDING SO MUCH PER PUPIL AND THEY HAVE THE RESOURCES.

EVEN FOR THAT STUDENT WHO HAS A LOW SAT SCORE, WITH THE RIGHT RESOURCES THEY CAN BE BROUGHT UP TO SPEED AS WELL.

WE NEED TO BE EXPANDING OPPORTUNITY AND THINKING ABOUT WAYS TO DO THAT.

NOT DIFFERENTIATING AND MAKING THESE MICRO-DECISIONS BASED ON THE SAT.

CRYSTAL: MY QUESTION IS SHOULD THEY BE WORRIED ABOUT LAWSUITS AFTER SOME OF THESE PROVISIONS START SLOWLY COMING?

KIRK: WHEN WE COVER THE TRIAL IN BOSTON IN THE HARVARD CASE AND AFFIRMATIVE ACTION, THEY POINTED TO THE TEST SCORE.

THESE PATIENT STUDENTS WHO SCORED ON AVERAGE THIS ON THE SAT, THEY WERE HELD TO A DIFFERENT STANDARD.

DROPPING THE QUALITATIVE MEASURE, IT MIGHT PREVENT LAWSUITS.

YALE, THE ADMISSIONS DIRECTOR SAID THREATS OF LAWSUITS SHOULD NOT CHANGE HOW WE OPERATE.

CRYSTAL: DO YOU SEE THIS AS ONE THING WE COULD SEE IN HIGHER ED IN TERMS OF CHANGES POST-COVID?

THESE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS WE PUT IN PLACE AS A TRIAGE METHOD DURING COVID.

DO WE SEE OTHER THINGS ROLLING AWAY FROM THE?

KIRK: IT IS IMPORTANT TO KEEP IN MIND, THESE ARE FOUR SELECTIVE COLLEGES WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

80% OF COLLEGES IN THIS COUNTRY ARE STILL TEST OPTIONAL.

THAT IS 1800 SCHOOLS.

ADMISSIONS PROCESS HAS BEEN BECOME SO CONVOLUTED.

THERE IS SO LITTLE TRANSPARENCY.

THE STUDENTS I INTERVIEW, SCHOOL COUNSELORS ARE REALLY CONFUSED ABOUT WHAT TO DO.

SHOULD YOU SUBMIT TEST SCORES?

IT IS IMPORTANT TO KEEP IN MIND THERE ARE SO MANY SCHOOLS.

MOST OF THEM WOULD LOVE TO BE ON YOUR SHORT LIST.

WE LOVE TO TALK ABOUT THE HIGHLY SELECTIVE BY THE HIGHLY REJECTED COLLEGES.

MOST SCHOOLS ARE ADMITTING MORE THAN HALF OF STUDENTS WHO APPLY.

CRYSTAL: DO YOU THINK THIS IS GOING TO IMPACT THE WAY FAMILIES CHOOSE COLLEGES WHERE THEY WILL SAY GREAT.

THERE IS NO TEST REQUIREMENT HERE?

WE ARE GOING TO APPLY VERSUS HAVING TO GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS AGAIN PREVIOUS GENERATIONS AT LEAST MYSELF HAD PTSD FROM.

[LAUGHTER] KIRK: YOU DIDN’T ENJOY IT?

NATASHA: I DON’T THINK ANYBODY ENJOYS IT.

WHEN THERE ARE DIFFERENCES IN TERMS OF WHAT COLLEGES ARE LOOKING AT, IT WILL AFFECT PEOPLE.

SOMEONE WHO IS A GOOD TEST TAKER MIGHT BE LIKE THAT WILL ADVANTAGE ME.

SOMEONE WHO IS NOT A GREAT TEST-TAKER MAY SAY I WILL NOT APPLY TO DARTMOUTH.

I THINK THAT IS OK. WE NEED TO STOP WORRYING ABOUT -- A STUDENT DOES NOT APPLY TO GAIL, IF THAT STUDENT IS A HIGH ACHIEVING STUDENT, THEY WILL APPLY TO HARVARD OR TUFTS.

IT IS NOT GOING TO MAKE A WHOLE WHAT OF DIFFERENCE.

WE NEED TO FOCUS ON THE REALITY THERE ARE SO MANY WONDERFUL AND AMAZING AND ASPIRATIONAL YOUNG PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY.

THEY ALL DESERVE AN EXCELLENT EDUCATION AT A PLACE THAT IS WELCOMING TO THEM AND IF THEY HAVE NOT HAD ALL THE EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITY SOME OF THEIR PEERS HAD, THE COLLEGES GOING TO HELP THEM GET UP TO SPEED.

THAT IS WHAT WE NEED TO BE FOCUSING ON.

SAT, NO SAT, ALL OF THESE THINGS CAN BE GAINED.

ADVANTAGES.

SOME PEOPLE.

DISADVANTAGES OTHERS.

COLLEGES ARE GOING TO DO DIFFERENT THINGS.

FAMILIES ARE GOING TO MAKE DIFFERENT CHOICES AND THAT IS OK. KIRK: THERE IS SO MUCH FOCUS ON GETTING INTO COLLEGE.

THERE IS NOT FOCUS ON WHAT YOU GET OUT OF IT.

.

ALL THE SERVERS SHOW THE AMERICAN PUBLIC IS SO SKEPTICAL OF HIGHER EDUCATION.

THURSDAY SERVER THAT CAME OUT A NUMBER OF YEARS -- THERE IS A GREAT SERVER THAT YOU KNOW A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO.

THOSE ALUMNI WHO SAID COLLEGE IS WHERE A CHECK TWO THINGS IN COMMON.

THEY WOULD ON A PROJECT FOR MORE THAN A SEMESTER AND THEY HAD AT LEAST ONE PROFESSOR WITH A THING CARED ABOUT THEM.

THAT IS IT.

THAT IS THE VENN DIAGRAM.

IF YOU HAVE THOSE TWO THINGS, YOU HAD A GOOD COLLEGE EXPERIENCE.

CRYSTAL: MOST OF THE TIME THIS TEST IS CONSIDER A BAROMETER OF HOW GOOD OF A HIGH SCHOOL EDUCATION YOU GOT.

WHEN IN THE END, IT DOES NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT THAT.

NATASHA: IT REFLECTS SO MANY THINGS.

ARE YOU A GOOD TEST-TAKER?

WHAT DO YOU DO UNDER PRESSURE?

THESE -- KIRK:KIRK: CAN YOU MEMORIZE CERTAIN WORDS?

NATASHA: DID YOU HAVE ACCESS TO CERTAIN TUTORING?

THERE IS NO PERFECT MEASURE.

WE SHOULD GET AWAY FROM THIS IDEA THE SAT IS FLAWED BUT THE ESSAY IS BETTER.

THE ESSAY HAS ITS OWN ISSUES OR EXTRACURRICULARS.

HAVE TO THINK ABOUT, ALLOW YOUNG PEOPLE TO SHOWCASE WHATEVER THEY ARE GOOD AT.

LET THEM SUBMIT THAT.

IN THE END, WE WILL HAVE TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE WATCHING CLOSELY.

THIS IS THE FIRST POST AFFIRMATIVE ACTION.

I’M GOING TO BE LOOKING CLOSELY TO SEE, HOW ARE THESE COLLEGES DOING?

ARE WE ABLE TO CONTINUE TO PROVIDE ACCESS IN TERMS OF UNDERREPRESENTED MINORITIES ON THESE CAMPUSES?

AND THEN THINK ABOUT THE SAT AFTER THAT AS WELL.

CRYSTAL: ABSOLUTELY.

THIS IS TOP OF MIND FOR LOTS OF FOLKS BECAUSE I KNOW A LOT OF MY FRIENDS, THEIR KIDS TOWARD DURING SPRING BREAK THAT JUST WRAPPED UP SO HERE WE GO.

KIRK CARAPEZZA AND NATASHA WARIKOO, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH US.

FINALLY TONIGHT, KATE WEAVER LOST MUCH OF HER HEARING.

SHE TURNED TO A SERVICE DOG TO BRIDGE THE GAP BETWEEN THE HEARING WORLD AND THE DEAF WORLD.

KATE TOLD GBH NEWSDAY MATCHED WITH A HEARING DOG CHANGED HER LIFE.

>> THIS WAS NOT JUST A DOG.

HE TAKES THE SILENCE AWAY.

ABOUT 10 OR 12 YEARS AGO, I WOKE UP ONE MORNING AND LOST THE FREQUENCY IN MY YEAR FOR SPEECH.

I THOUGHT I HAD A COLD.

I WENT TO THE DOCTOR.

TESTED AND SAID NO.

THIS LINE OF FREQUENCY IS JUST GONE.

THE BIGGEST THING I NOTICED HIS CONVERSATION.

SOCIALIZATION, GOING TO RESTAURANTS.

EVEN GOING TO THE GROCERY STORE.

ANY TIME I HAD TO INTERACT WITH PEOPLE, I WOULD HAVE TO REALLY FOCUS, LOOK AT THEIR WHOLE FACE.

IT IS EMBARRASSING WHEN SOMEONE TRIES TO TALK TO YOU AND YOU HAVE TO KEEP SAYING WHAT.

YOU’RE LIKE THIS, WHAT?

PEOPLE EITHER SAY NEVER MIND OR IT IS OK.

EVENTUALLY, THAT REALLY MAKES YOU START TO FEEL KIND OF LESS THAN I GUESS.

I ALREADY WEAR A HEARING AID.

I WAS TRYING TO THINK ABOUT, WHAT WOULD BE THE NEXT THING?

>> THE PROCESS TO TRAIN A HEARING DOG TAKES A LITTLE UNDER TWO YEARS.

WE ARE DOING SOCIALIZATION WITH THEM.

INTRODUCING THEM TO ALL DIFFERENT NOVEL THINGS.

STRANGE BODY LANGUAGE OR OBJECTS.

MAKING SURE THEY CAN WALK ON ALL DIFFERENT TYPES OF SURFACES.

>> GOOD GIRL.

>> YOU CAN START BY INTRODUCING THE SOUND TO THE DOG.

THEY WILL RUN OVER TO THE SOUND AND WE WILL GIVE THEM LOTS OF PRAISE AND REWARD.

PHYSICAL PETS, VERBAL OR GIVING THEM TREATS.

WE WILL ADVANCE IT TO HAVING THEM GO BACK TO A HANDLER.

IT IS AMAZING TO SEE THE DOGS DO THE THINGS WE TRAIN THEM TO DO IN ACTION.

IT IS AMAZING TO HEAR FROM OUR CLIENTS THE STORIES AND HOW THE DOG HAS IMPACTED THEIR LIFE.

>> CARET TIME -- CARROT TIME.

>> IN ANY ENVIRONMENT I AM IN, HE IS SCANNING THE ENVIRONMENT.

I AM SCANNING HIM.

IT IS A PARTNERSHIP.

HE BRINGS AN AWARENESS TO MY ENVIRONMENT THAT DISAPPEARED.

CRYSTAL: IT COSTS ABOUT $45,000 TO BREED, RAISE AND TRAIN A SERVICE DOG.

CLIENTS ARE ASKED TO FUND RAISE $8,000 AS AN ORGANIZATION TO THE ORG -- A DONATION TO THE ORGANIZATION WHICH IS TAKING UP DONATIONS TO MATCH PEOPLE WITH HEARING DOGS.

THAT IS IT FOR TONIGHT.

COME BACK TO TOMORROW I WILL TOP TO THE STATE REP BEHIND A NEW BILL THAT WILL ADD FINANCIAL LITERACY CLASSES TO PUBLIC SCHOOLS IN MASSACHUSETTS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WATCHING.

I’M CRYSTAL HAYNES.

GOOD NIGHT.

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