>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.

>> WELL, THANKS FOR JOINING US FOR THIS EDITION OF DONNYBROOK.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU WITH US AND ON NEXT UP, THE SECOND HALF OF OUR PROGRAM, WE'LL TALK TO DR. ALEX GARZA WHO HEADS UP THE ST. LOUIS AREA PANDEMIC TASK FORCE.

SO WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO POSING OUR QUESTIONS ABOUT VACCINES AND MORE WITH DR. GARZA WHEN HE JOINS US.

LET'S MEET THE PANELISTS WHO ARE JOINING US FOR THIS EDITION STARTING WITH THE NEWS DIRECTOR FOR THE BIG 550 KTRS AND THE COHOST OF THE JENNIFER AND WENDY SHOW, WENDY WIESE.

ALONG WITH MR. BILL McCLELLAN FROM THE ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH.

ALSO FROM KTRS AND A GUY WHO WRITES IF RAW STORY.COM AND THE RIVERFRONT TIMES, ANOTHER FOUNDER N RAY HARTMANN.

AND WE WELCOME ALVIN REID FROM 590 A.M., 97.1 FM AND THE ST. LOUIS AMERICAN.

RAY, WE'RE GOING TO START WITH YOU ON THIS PROGRAM BECAUSE YOU DID INTERVIEW TALBY ROACH, THE PRESIDENT AND CEO OF BI-STATE THIS WEEK AND HE KIND OF EXPLAIN WHAT WAS GOING ON AT METROLINK IN THE WAKE OF A TRAGEDY ON SUNDAY WHEN A SECURITY GUARD ON THE PLATFORM AT DELMAR WAS SHOT AND KILLED AND AS IT TURNS OUT, SECURITY GUARDS ON METROLINK ARE UNARMED, WHICH I THINK IS TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE.

WHAT'S YOUR VIEW ON THIS?

>> FIRST, IT WAS A HORRIBLE TRAGEDY.

HE WAS ACTUALLY A SUPERVISOR WHO WAS ON THERE AND AS FAR AS YOUR POINT ON ARMED SECURITY GUARDS, IT'S JUST EMPIRICALLY WRONG AS FAR AS THE LAW GOES.

IF YOU HAVE TO CHANGE BOTH MISSOURI LAW AND THE COMPACT THAT BI-STATE OPERATES UNDER IN ORDER TO ARM SECURITY GUARDS AND IN FACT, TWO YEARS AGO, I THINK THIS MONTH ACTUALLY, THEY DID A MAJOR STUDY, ONE OF THE TOP FIRMS IN THE WORLD ON LIGHT RAIL SYSTEMS, AND THEY MADE THE VERY DEFINITE POINT THAT YOU'RE VIOLATING LAW AND COMMON SENSE BY HAVING, AT THE TIME, RENT-A-COPS BASICALLY RUNNING AROUND WITH DRUG DOGS AND STUFF.

THE THING WAS, THIS GUY WAS -- THIS HAPPENED ON THE STEPS UP TO THE PLATFORM.

IT WAS A HORRIBLE TRAGEDY.

HE HAD NO CHANCE.

WHETHER HE HAD A GUN OR NOT WOULDN'T HAVE HELPED HIM AT ALL.

IT'S A HORRIBLE TRAGEDY AND OVERALL, THE FACTS ARE, I HAPPEN TO THINK THAT TALBY ROACH DOES A VERY GOOD JOB, BUT I THINK MORE IMPORTANT, WE HAVE A HUGE PROBLEM WITH PERCEPTIONS OF PEOPLE BEING CONCERNED THAT IT'S UNSAFE.

THEY'RE NOT -- THAT'S NOT BORN OUT BY STATISTICS, BUT IT'S A HORRIBLE THING.

>> WELL, I'LL TELL YOU WHAT, RAY.

>> I THINK IT'S MORE THAN JUST PERCEPTION, RAY.

I MEAN, I THINK THERE'S BEEN ENOUGH INCIDENTS ON -- AND TRAGEDIES, SHOOTINGS ON METROLINK AND I HEARD ENOUGH ANECDOTAL STORIES FROM PEOPLE, I THINK WE NEED A LOT MORE SECURITY THERE AND AS FAR AS CHANGING THE LAWS, I THINK THAT'S A MATTER OF INTERPRETATION.

BUT EVEN IF WE HAVE TO CHANGE THE LAWS, CHANGE THE LAWS OR GET METROLINK ITS OWN POLICE, BUT WE CANNOT HAVE UNARMED PEOPLE TRYING TO PROTECT US.

I'M SORRY.

>> THIS WAS A MARINE, A VETERAN OF TWO TOURS IN AFGHANISTAN WHO LIVED THROUGH THAT TO DIE ON A METROLINK PLATFORM, AND RAY, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, PLEASE BELIEVE ME WHEN I SAY THIS IS NOT ABOUT POINTING FINGERS.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE VILLELIFICATION OF ANYBODY, LET ALONE TALBY ROACH, BUT I THINK IF SOMEBODY TOLD HIS WIFE THAT HE -- THAT IT WOULDN'T HAVE MADE A DIFFERENCE IF HE HAD A FIREARM, I'M NOT SURE THAT SHE WOULD -- THAT SHE WOULD SEE IT THAT WAY.

I'VE HEARD THAT A NUMBER OF TIMES, AND IT JUST DOESN'T RING THROUGH.

>> BUT IT CHANGES THE PERCEPTION, NOT PERCEPTION, BUT IF THE ASSAILANT KNEW I HAD A GUN, HE WOULDN'T BE AS QUICK TO SHOOT ME AS FAST.

MOST CITIES IN AMERICA, REGARDLESS OF ANY STUDY, THE PEOPLE THAT ARE GUARDING THE TRAIN HAVE GUNS.

NOW, WHY ST. LOUIS WOULD BE THE ONE, I HAVE NO IDEA, BUT ALSO, WE DON'T MAKE PEOPLE PAY AND FROM WHAT I READ ORIGINALLY, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS BORN OUT, OKAY?

BUT APPARENTLY THEY HAD HAD SOME TYPE OF MEETING TOGETHER BECAUSE HE WAS SLEEPING ON THE TRAIN.

AND IF YOU HAVE TO PAY A FARE TO GET ON THE TRAIN, THAT ELIMINATES PEOPLE SLEEPING ON THE TRAIN, WHICH WOULD HAVE ELIMINATED THIS FIRST ALTERCATION, WHICH POSSIBLY WOULD HAVE ELIMINATED THIS MAN BEING SHOT IN COLD BLOOD.

>> I MEAN, RAY, YOU HAVE TO ADMIT, RAY, IN THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS, IF AN OFFICER OR A GUARD ON A TRAIN PLATFORM IS UNARMED, IN THIS CITY HE'LL BE THE ONLY GUY ON THE PLATFORM WHO DOESN'T HAVE AN ARM.

IT'S RIDICULOUS.

>> CAN I RESPOND?

>> WITH THE CRIME RATE THAT WE HAVE, TO HAVE A SECURITY OFFICER WHO'S UNARMED?

ARE YOU KIDING ME?

>> OKAY, FIRST OF ALL, LET'S KEEP THIS -- METROLINK HAS, AGAIN, THE RESEARCH AND THE REALITY NOW, THE BIG -- >> RESEARCH, ONE REPORT.

>> OKAY, OKAY.

>> ONE REPORT FROM ONE WOMAN IN NEW YORK CITY!

WHERE BY THE WAY, THEY HAVE FIREARMS LIKE THEY DO IN SAN FRANCISCO AND BOSTON.

>> OKAY, CAN I FINISH?

METROLINK, FORGET ABOUT THE SOURCE.

METROLINK HAS PLENTY OF ARMED POLICE OFFICERS ON THE PLATFORMS, WHICH IS WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE.

THE ISSUE IS SHOULD THE SECURITY GUARDS, WHO ARE ON THE TRAINS, WHO ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING -- CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT ALVIN IS TALKING ABOUT, WHICH IS COLLECTING FARES AND CUSTOMER SERVICE, SHOULD THOSE PEOPLE BE ARMED?

AND IMS LIKE ARMING SCHOOL TEACHERS.

YOU DON'T HAVE -- >> NO NO.

>> OH NO.

>> NO, NO.

>> IT'S NOT LIKE ARMING SCHOOL TEACHERS.

>> YOU CAN'T HAVE ARMED -- YOU'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE SHOOTOUTS ON THE TRAINS -- >> AVENUES MARINE WITH EIGHT YEARS OF EXPERIENCE, INCLUDING COMBAT IN AFGHANISTAN.

YOU THINK HE WASN'T QUALIFIED?

>> TEACHERS IN THE CLASSROOMS TEACH, RAY.

>> I GET IT, BUT THEY'RE NOT TRAINED -- >> [ ALL SPEAKING AT ONCE ] >> IT'S A DIFFERENT THING.

>> OKAY.

THE PEOPLE ON THE TRAINS, THE UNIFORMED FOLKS ON THE TRAINS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE PROVIDING A SIMILAR SERVICE IN A NORMAL LIGHT RAIL SYSTEM.

THE POLICE, WHO ARE ARMED -- >> THEY'RE SECURITY GUARDS.

>> -- PROVIDE SECURITY.

THAT'S THE WAY IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE.

NOW, THE POINT IS YOU'RE ACTING LIKE THERE'S NO ARMED GUARDS THERE.

THERE'S PLENTY OF ARMED POLICE.

>> WE'RE NOT ACTING LIKE THAT.

>> THIS IS RIDICULOUS.

>> RAY, FROM MY TIME IN WASHINGTON, D.C., ON THE METRO, ONE OF THE BIGGEST ONES IN THE COUNTRY, THEY HAD ARMED SECURITY THAT WERE PART OF THE POLICE, THE WASHINGTON, D.C., POLICE FORCE.

THAT'S WHAT ST. LOUIS NEEDS.

I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT WHAT IT IS OR WHATEVER.

I'M SAYING, LIKE, THIS IS RIDICULOUS.

I MEAN, THIS IS -- >> THEY HAVE -- >> RAY -- >> THEY HAVE -- WE HAVE POLICE FROM THE COUNTY, THE CITY, ST. CLAIR ARE ALL THERE AND THEY'RE ARMED DOING THE JOB.

THE POINT IS -- >> ON THE TRAIN.

>> WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

HAVE YOU NOT READ THE STORIES IN THE LAST THREE YEARS?

>> YES, I HAVE.

HAVE YOU LOOKED AT THE STATISTICS IN THE LAST THREE YEARS?

THE FACT IS -- >> I HAVE.

>> -- ANY AMOUNT OF TIME IS TOO MUCH.

WE HAVE AN AVERAGE AMOUNT OF CRIME FOR A LIGHT RAIL SYSTEM.

>> OH MY GOD, DID YOU HEAR WHAT YOU JUST SAID?

>> THERE'S 50,000 RIDERS A DAY AND THERE'S USUALLY NOT -- I MEAN, THERE'S A CRIME PROBLEM EVERY DAY, NOT A SERIOUS ONE, AND IT'S NOT AS UNSAFE AS PEOPLE THINK.

>> I'M NOT DEBATING THAT.

WHAT I'M SAYING IS WHEN SOMETHING HAPPENS, THE SECURITY GUARD NEEDS TO BE ARMED.

>> NOT THE ONES THAT ARE RIDING -- >> THE AMOUNT OF CRIME -- GLOOT PEOPLE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ARE THE TICKET COLLECTORS AND THE CUSTOMER SERVICE PEOPLE.

>> THERE GUY WASN'T A TICKET COLLECTOR, RAY.

HE WASN'T CUSTOMER SERVICE.

HE WAS SECURITY.

>> THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE UNARMED.

>> ALL RIGHT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO BOAT, BUT THEY'RE NOT CONCIERGES.

>> WELL, THEY ARE, BUT -- >> THEY'RE NOT CONCIERGE PERSONNEL.

METRO IS CONTRACTING WITH A SECURITY FIRM, BUT NOT -- >> BUT BY DEFINITION, THEY ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE ARMED AND NOT HAVE -- >> NOT BY DEFINITION, NO.

>> YES.

>> CHANGE THE DEFINITION!

CHANGE THE DEFINITION!

>> WELL, THEY HAVE TO CHANGE STATE LAW AND THE INTERSTATE -- >> THEN CHANGE IT.

>> ALL RIGHT, FINE, BUT DON'T BLAME BI-STATE.

>> NO, NO, IT'S BI-STATE'S FAULT BECAUSE IF THEY HAD GONE DOWN THERE FIVE YEARS AGO AND SAID, HEY, STATE, WE NEED TO CHARGE FOR EVERYBODY GETTING ON HERE AND WE NEED ARMED SECURITY GUARDS AND WE NEED TO QUIT, YOU KNOW, ACTING LIKE WE DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM, AND THAT'S THE REASON THIS HAPPENED.

BECAUSE BI-STATE REFUSES TO ACCEPT THE FACT -- >> OKAY, LENS MOVE ON -- [ ALL SPEAKING AT ONCE ] >> VIOLENT CRIME HAPPENS -- >> WE APPRECIATE THE INTERVIEW YOU DID THE OTHER NIGHT WITH TAULBY ROACH.

LET'S MOVE ON TO WENDY WIESE WITH OUR SECOND TOPIC ONLY BECAUSE THE TIME IS LIMITED AND DR. GARZA IS WAITING FOR US-ROCHELLE WALTON GRAY WAS DEFEATED LAST AUGUST IN HER BID FOR RE-ELECTION, BUT ALL IS NOT LOST BECAUSE AFTER SHE SUPPORTED THE CANDIDATE, LISA CLANCY, THAT WAS THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE PICK FOR ST. LOUIS COUNTY COUNCIL LEADERSHIP, MS. GRAY DID RECEIVE A JOB IN COUNTY GOVERNMENT.

$89,000 A YEAR, WENDY, TO INCREASE THE NUMBER OF VACCINATED PEOPLE IN NORTH COUNTY DURING THE WORST PANDEMIC IN 100 YEARS.

SO DO YOU THINK THE $89,000 IS WARRANTED FOR ROCHELLE WALTON GRAY?

>> I DO.

I DO.

AND I KNOW THAT DOESN'T MAKE ME A VERY POPULAR PERSON ON THIS PANEL, BUT THIS IS A HORRIFIC PANDEMIC.

PEOPLE OF COLOR ARE DEFINITELY BEING IMPACT AT AN INCREDIBLE RATE.

YOU HAVE AN EASILY UNDERSTOOD RELUCTANCE BECAUSE OF HISTORY DATING BACK -- WELL, WAY BEYOND THE TUSKEGEE AIRMEN PROJECT TO THIS WEEK'S ADMISSION OR LAWSUIT BEING FILED AGAINST A COUPLE OF PLAYERS WHO RECENTLY PLAYED IN THE NFL AND CONCUSSION PROTOCOLS AND SETTLEMENTS AND ALL OF THAT STUFF.

SO I THINK SOMEBODY LIKE ROCHELLE WALTON GRAY, WITH HER CONNECTIONS, I READ THE POST EDITORIAL, I UNDERSTAND THAT SHE LOST AND ALL OF THAT, BUT SHE STILL HAS CONNECTIONS IN NORTH COUNTY AND THIS HEALTHCARE INITIATIVE IS IMPORTANT.

I DON'T THINK SAM PAGE WANTS TO BE THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE OF THE TUSKEGEE EQUIVALENT IN TERMS OF THE VACCINE.

SO YES, IT'S CRONYISM, BUT CRONYISM HAS BEEN GOING ON FOREVER IN THE COUNTY AND THE CITY, AND I THINK SHE COULD BE VERY EFFECTIVE IN THIS REGARD AND IT'S IMPORTANT.

>> HEAR, HEAR, WENDY.

I AGREE, WENDY.

I'LL SAY THIS, THAT I WOULD HAVE NOT HIRED HER AS A JOB LIKE WITHIN COUNTY GOVERNMENT, BUT LIKE CONTRACTUALLY THROUGH SOME TYPE OF ENTITY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT SO THAT SHE WOULD HAVE THIS JOB FOR AT LEAST A YEAR, MAYBE IF YOU HAD TO PROCEED AFTER THAT, BUT ONE YEAR, NINE,000, I HAVE NO -- $90,000, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH.

IF THERE'S SOME MECHANISM TO SAY YOUR JOB DOESN'T EXIST ANYMORE A YEAR FROM NOW, WHICH I PROBABLY DON'T THINK IT WILL, I'M FINE WITH YOU.

BUT I SIDE WITH YOU, WASN'T, AT LEAST SHE'S DOING SOMETHING TO GET PAID FOR.

>> I HAVE A HUGE PROBLEM WITH IT.

THIS IS THE GUY WHO SAID PLAY FOR PAY IS DEAD AND I DON'T DISRESPECT ROCHELLE WALTON GRAY FOR TAKING IT, I GUESS SHE RECEIVED -- AS TIM FITCH POINTED OUT ON MY STATION, SHE GETS A GREAT PENSION FROM IT, BUT IT IS SO POLITICAL THAT NOBODY -- I HAVEN'T SEEN ANYBODY THAT WANTS TO DEFEND IT.

TO THE POINT YOU HAVE THAT WE NEED -- THAT THE COUNTY NEEDS A PERSON FOR THIS JOB, BY ALL MEANS, CREATE THE POSITION, ADVERTISE IT, AND TAKE THE BEST PERSON FOR THE JOB.

THERE'S NO PROBLEM WITH THAT.

YOU MAKE A GREAT CASE FOR THE EXISTENCE OF THE POSITION.

YOU DON'T MAKE A GREAT CASE TO TAKE SOMEBODY WHO JUST DID YOU A GIANT POLITICAL FAVOR, GIANT, LITERALLY -- >> I UNDERSTAND, RAY -- >> BUT I'M SAYING YOU MADE A GREAT CASE, WENDY, FOR HAVING THE POSITION, BUT NOT A CASE AT ALL FOR WHY YOU PAY OFF SOMEBODY WHO JUST GAVE YOU A HUGE -- >> NO, SHE DIDN'T SAY THAT.

SHE HAS A TREMENDOUS NORTH COUNTY -- WAIT.

WENDY EXPLAINED IT.

SHE SAID SHE HAS TREMENDOUS NORTH COUNTY CONTACTS.

>> I DON'T KNOW THAT SHE DOES.

SHE JUST LOST AN ELECTION.

>> THAT DOESN'T MATTER, RAY!

THAT DOESN'T MATTER.

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT -- >> EVERYBODY GOT ALL UPWITH HAZEL ERBY.

THE DIFFERENCE WHEN SHE GOT HIRED, PEOPLE SAID SHE GOT PAID OFF, SHE HAD NOT DONE SAM PAGE ANY FAVORS.

IN OTHER WORDS, THEY COT HIRED BECAUSE SYSTEM WANTED LOWER COUNCIL, BUT -- >> WASN'T SHE ALSO MAKING $40,000 MORE -- >> NO, SHE WASN'T MAKING 40,000 MORE.

PLUS, HAZEL ERBY WAS ACTUAL DOING -- >> SHE WAS MAKING MORE MONEY, OF COURSE, BUT -- >> SHE WAS FAVORED -- >> YOUR PENSION IS CONFIGURED BY THE LAST THREE YEARS OF YOUR SALARY, RIGHT?

SO IF YOU INCREASE THOSE LAST YEARS -- >> RIGHT.

>> -- YOU HAVE A BETTER PENSION, AND BY THE WAY, DON'T FORGET PAT DOLAN WAS DEFEATED BY LISA CLANCY ON THE ST. LOUIS COUNTY COUNCIL AND SHE GOT A JOB.

I DON'T KNOW, SOUNDS LIKE YOUR NATIVE CHICAGO, BILL, WITH WARD POLITICS.

>> ABSOLUTELY, AND I THOUGHT THIS WAS CRAZY.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, OF COURSE GRAY HAS A LOT OF CONTACTS IN NORTH COUNTY AND HER FATHER WAS A BIG POLITICIAN IN NORTH COUNTY.

BUT THERE'S OTHER PEOPLE WITH CONNECTIONS AND THERE ARE PEOPLE WITH BACKGROUNDS IN HEALTHCARE.

I MEAN, THE IDEA THAT YOU'RE DID GO TO GIVE THIS TO THE DEFEAT THE CANDIDATE WHO CAME IN AND ONE LAST DYING EFFORT, GAVE YOU A HUGE VOTE, I'M WITH RAY ON THIS.

>> WELL, BILL, WHILE WE HAVE YOU HERE, I WANT TO TALK ABOUT YOUR COLUMN THIS WEEK WHERE -- EXTRAORDINARY COLUMN WHERE YOU INTERVIEWED 20-YEAR-OLD EMILY HERNANDEZ OF SULLIVAN, MISSOURI, WHO HAS BEEN ARRESTED ON FIVE CHARGES, ALL MISDEMEANORS, FEDERAL CHARGES, THOUGH, BECAUSE SHE WAS PART OF THAT RAMPAGE AT CAPITOL HILL ON JANUARY THE 6th.

IN FACT, SHE WAS PHOTOGRAPHED CARRYING A SIGN FROM SPEAKER PELOSI'S OFFICE.

NOW, YOU INTERVIEWED HER.

SHE SEEMED LIKE, A LITTLE BIT TO ME IN THE INTERVIEW, SHE WAS JUST SAYING I WAS KIND OF LIKE THE PIANO PLAYER AT THE BRAVO.

I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THEY WERE DOING UPSTAIRS.

DO YOU KIND OF FIGURE THAT THIS WOMAN REALLY DIDN'T KNOW WHAT SHE WAS GETTING INTO?

>> WELL, TO A DEGREE.

I MEAN, I QUOTED THAT WOMAN FROM THE WASHINGTON POST WHO WROTE A LOT OF THESE RIOTERS AFTER THEY WERE CAUGHT TRIED TO ACT LIKE THEY MISTAKENLY GOT IN LINE FOR INSURRECTION MOUNTAIN AND THE PAG GIK KINGDOM AND THERE'S A -- MAGIC KINGDOM AND THERE'S A DEGREE OF THAT, AND I CERTAINLY WAS NOT EXPECTING EMILY HERNANDEZ TO BE LIKE SHE WAS.

I WAS PREPARED TO ASK ABOUT WHERE SHE GOT HER NEWS AND TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW A 20-YEAR-OLD, NOW 21-YEAR-OLD, COULD BE RADICALIZED IN THIS WAY, AND INSTEAD, YOU KNOW, SHE CAME OFF -- I DON'T WANT TO USE THE -- WELL, I DON'T MEAN TO BE TERRIBLY DEROGATORY WHEN SHE SEEMED LIKE KIND OF A DITSY 21-YEAR-OLD KID FROM A SMALL TOWN RG DELIVERING PIZZAS, HAD A CHANCE TO GO TO D.C. AND TOOK IT, AND THE PART OF ME THAT I BELIEVE HER IS I WANT TO BELIEVE THERE'S STILL KIDS LIKE THAT IN SMALL TOWN AMERICA WHO MIGHT BE LIVING IN TRUMPLANDIA, THAT'S SULLIVAN, MISSOURI, WHO REALLY DON'T CARE -- AFTER I ASKED, DID YOU VOTE FOR -- I DIDN'T VOTE.

OH, YOU DIDN'T VOTE?

I VOTED IN 2018 FOR MARIJUANA.

AND THEN HER ATTORNEY, WHO I LIKED A LOT, SAID THAT'S MEDICAL MARIJUANA, AND SHE SAID YES.

IT WAS -- I LIKE TO THINK THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE LIKE EMILY, LIKE THAT EMILY HERNANDEZ STILL IN SMALL TOWN AMERICA.

I'M NOT SURE IF IT'S TRUE.

>> I HAVE TO SAY, IT WAS SUCH A GREAT COLUMN.

>> THANK YOU.

>> BUT IF YOU HASN'T WRITTEN IT -- I HAVE TO SAY, PART OF THE ME STILL THINKS THAT, YOU MADE THE POINT THAT IT WOULD MAKE A GREAT MOVIE AND I CAN'T DECIDE WHETHER SHE'S BE -- I DON'T KNOW, BUT I ALSO DON'T REALLY -- I KIND OF CAME AWAY -- I LOVED THE COLUMN AND I THOUGHT, WELL, IF YOU SHE WAS, MAYBE, BUT I CAN ALSO SEE A SCENARIO UNDER THE SORT OF THINGS SHE SHOULD BE SAYING IF SHE WANTS TO HAVE -- >> AND IF I'M TOTALLY MISTAKEN ON HER, IT'S NOT THE FIRST TIME.

>> NO, MY THING IS THAT -- >> GO AHEAD, WENDY.

GO AHEAD.

>> NO, THIS IS WHERE I THINK -- AND IT WAS A FANTASTIC COLUMN AND I KNOW EVERYBODY IS GOING TO ENJOY IT, BUT THIS IS WHERE I THINK SOMEHOW WE HAVE LITERALLY GONE HURTLING OFF THE RAILROAD TRACKS BECAUSE IN A 21-YEAR-OLD PROTESTER IN THE AFTERMATH OF THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD BURNS DOWN A BUILDING, WHICH IN MY MIND, YOU KNOW, I WOULD BE -- I WOULD BE SCREAMING FROM THE ROOFTOPS THAT THEY SHOULD BE PROSECUTED.

I DON'T CARE HOW YOUNG THEY ARE.

I DON'T CARE HOW YOUNG SHE IS.

SHE SHOULD BE PROSECUTED.

>> SHE IS BEING PROSECUTED, WENDY.

>> NO, I UNDERSTAND THAT AND SHE SHOULD SERVE JAIL TIME.

THIS IS A SERIOUS CRIME.

WHETHER SHE IS A DITSY 21-YEAR-OLD JUST LIKE I WAS, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO -- THERE IS -- THERE ARE ACTIONS AND THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES.

WHETHER YOU ARE A MEMBER OF ANTIFA OR WHETHER YOU ARE A MEMBER OF Q-ANON AND YOU'RE RAIDING THE CAPITOL.

I JUST -- WE SEEM TO SOMEHOW, BECAUSE THESE PEOPLE ARE YOUNG, WE MAKE EXCUSES FOR THEM.

>> I THINK SHE'S LAWYERED UP.

I THINK IF I WAS HER IN THAT SITUATION, I WOULD PLAY THE DITSY DAUGHTER THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION WHO GOT LED ASTRAY BY TWO SINISTER INDIVIDUALS.

I'M JUST NOT BUYING IT AND WITH YOU, WENDY, FULL EXTENT OF THE LAW.

I WILL SAY THIS.

I HAVE A 20-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER AND MY OLDEST WILL BE 22 ON FEBRUARY 16th.

I'D BE TRYING TO FIND THEM A GUANTANAMO RIGHT NOW, LET ALONE THEM GETTING INTERVIEWED FOR THE ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH.

>> ALVIN -- BY THE WAY, WE'LL CHECK OUT THE COLUMN IN THE POST-DISPATCH, STLTODAY.COM.

>> IT'S REALLY GOOD.

IT'S A GOOD READ.

>> ALVIN REID, I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE STATE OF MISSOURI WHICH ADMITS THAT IT OVERPAID UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS BY ABOUT $150 MILLION.

IN FACT, 3% OF THOSE WHO RECEIVED UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS THIS PAST YEAR, KIND OF IN THE RUSH DURING THE PANDEMIC, WERE OVERPAID AND NOW THE STATE WANTS TO CLAW THAT MONEY BACK.

AND SOME PEOPLE RECEIVED $8,000 IN THE UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS, FEDERAL AND STATE, AND SPENT THE TONIGHT.

NOW THEY'RE BEING ASKED TO PAY IT BACK.

SHOULD THEY BE REQUIRED TO, OR SHOULD THE STATE FORGIVE IT AND SAY, HEY, IT WAS OUR ERROR, DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT?

>> YES, I THINK THE STATE CAN CLAIM SOME OF THE MONEY BACK.

NOW, FIRST OF ALL, DO A PERCENTAGE LIKE A LOAN OR SOMETHING WHERE YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY THIS BACK BECAUSE THIS WAS OUR BAD.

SO EVEN THOUGH YOU OWE US 8,000, LET'S SAY YOU OWE US 7,000.

NOW, LENS FIGURE OUT A PAYMENT PLAN OR YOU FORFEIT YOUR, YOU KNOW, IF YOU GET ANY KIND OF MONEY BACK FROM THE STATE ON YOUR STATE TAX REFUND OR, YOU KNOW, TAX BURDEN, THEN YOU FORFEIT THAT BACK TO THE STATE.

BUT YEAH, I THINK THE STATE IS OKAY TO ASK FOR THE MONEY BACK.

>> I'D LIKE TO SEE THE PEOPLE BE ABLE TO KEEP IT.

I KNOW THAT'S EASY TO SAY, BUT TALKING TO LEGISLATORS WHO HAVE CONSTITUENTS, THESE ARE UNIFORMLY PEOPLE WHO NEED THE MONEY AND A STATE THAT DOESN'T TREAT THEM VERY WELL, AND THEY GOT IT THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN, AND I THINK THE STATE CAN AFFORD TO, ALMOST WITHOUT EXCEPTION, THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO PROBABLY SPENT THE MONEY BECAUSE THEY NEEDED IT AND DON'T HAVE IT TO PAY BACK.

I JUST THINK THEY SHOULD LET IT GO.

>> I'M WITH RAY AND WOULDN'T THE MONEY MOSTLY GO BACK TO THE FEDS ANYWAY?

>> THAT'S CORRECT.

>> THAT MIGHT BE TRUE.

NO, I UNDERSTAND, BUT -- >> NOT POOR MISSOURI.

I THINK A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE COULD MAKE AN ARGUMENT -- THE STORIES I READ IN THE PAPER, PEOPLE WHO ARE WORKING PART-TIME OR THIS OR THAT.

THE IDEA OF ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU'RE GOING TO HIT THESE POOR PEOPLE WITH A 6,000, $8,000 BILL, IT'S JUST -- IT'S WAY TOO MUCH.

I MEAN, I -- LET THEM KEEP.

>> TRY TO WORK SOMETHING OUT.

I WOULD SAY THIS.

I HAVE NO -- LOOK, BANK OF AMERICA HAS GOT A TRILLION DOLLARS, BUT IF I HIT THE 100, LIKE CASH WITHDRAWAL, AND IT GAVE ME A THOUSAND DOLLARS, ULTIMATELY I -- IN THE BACK OF MY MIND, I KNOW I'M GOING TO HAVE TO COME UP WITH $900 AT SOME POINT.

>> WELL, NO, NO, THAT HAPPENED.

REMEMBER DIANE WHITE, THE -- >> WERE YOU THINKING OF HER, ALVIN?

>> WHAT HAPPENED TO DIANE WHITE?

YEAH, WHAT HAPPENED TO HER?

>> THERE WAS MONEY PUT IN HER ACCOUNT.

IT WASN'T HER FAULT AND SHE GOT IN TROUBLE WITH THE LAW.

>> SHE GOT IN BIG TROUBLE.

SO I'M JUST SAYING YOU KIND OF REALIZE THAT ULTIMATELY I THINK I MIGHT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS MONEY.

NOW, I'M NOT SAYING ALL PEOPLE WHO GOT THIS MONEY, UNEMPLOYMENT MONEY, YOU KNOW, KNEW, THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT KNEW THAT THIS WAS WRONG.

>> WELL, ABOUT 3% GOT IT FRAUDULENTLY.

>> AND STATISTICALLY, THEY WERE THE ONES, CHARLIE, WHO DECIDED THAT THEY WEREN'T GOING TO LOOK FOR WORK BECAUSE THEY WERE GETTING THESE, THESE UNEMPLOYMENT DOLLARS.

AND, YOU KNOW, NOT THAT THAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE.

IF THEY WOULD EVEN REPAY A PORTION OF IT, I WOULD BE ALL RIGHT WITH IT BECAUSE RAY IS BEING VERY GENEROUS WE HAVE BEEN ELSE'S MONEY.

>> LET ME SAY, WHATEVER, WHATEVER HAPPENED TO BANK ERROR IN YOUR FAVOR IN MONOPOLY?

COME ON.

>> BILL McCLELLAN, I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT A CASE OUT OF FOREST PARK THIS PAST WEEKEND WHERE A LOCAL EMERGENCY ROOM DOCTOR WAS JOGGING OR WALKING WITH HIS DOG AND HE CAME UPON A WOMAN WHO WAS BEING SEXUALLY ATTACKED, AND THANKFULLY THE DOCTOR DID WARD OFF THE PERPETRATOR WHO WAS LATER ARRESTED, BUT THE INTERESTING -- WELL, VARIOUS PARTS OF THE STORY ARE INTERESTING.

THE ONE I'D LIKE TO LOOK AT IS WHEN THE DOCTOR CALLED 911, HE WAS PUT ON HOLD.

AND THEN YOUR COLLEAGUE AARON HEPPERNEN IN THE ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH SAID ONE OUT OF SIX CALLERS WHO CALLED 911 JUST GAVE UP AND HUNG UP.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS?

>> I THOUGHT AARON'S STORY WAS TERRIFIC AND I WAS SHOCKED, AND TO READ THAT THE SAME PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING THE NON-EMERGENCY CALLS ARE ALSO THE DISPATCHERS FOR 911, THAT BOGGLED MY MIND TOO.

I MEAN, THIS IS JUST INEPTNESS.

I'M AMAZED AT IT.

THE SAME STORY -- AARON'S STORY POINTED OUT THAT IN THE COUNTY, 911 CALLS ARE ANSWERED WITHIN, I THINK IT WAS 4.5 SECONDS, AND I THOUGHT THERE'S REALLY NO, YOU KNOW -- I MEAN THE COUNTY HAS MORE RESOURCES THAN THE CITY, OKAY.

BUT THERE'S NO REASON THAT THE CITY IS PUTTING PEOPLE ON HOLD AND THE COUNTY IS GETTING IT IN 4.5 SECONDS.

I DON'T KNOW WHO'S IN CHARGE OF THAT, BUT IT'S RIDICULOUS.

>> YOU'RE RIGHT, BILL.

HATS OFF TO AARON HEPPERNEN ON THE REPORTING BECAUSE HER STORY ABOUT THE WOMAN WHO WAS JOGGING WAS HARROWING TO READ.

SHE REALLY TOOK THE READERS TO THAT GRAVEL PATH IN FOREST PARK ON THAT RAINY COLD DAY.

BUT I MEAN, CARA SPENCER RUNNING FOR MAYOR HAS MADE IT PART OF HER CAMPAIGN.

THE 911 EMERGENCY RESPONSE AND FROM HER VANTAGE POINT IN SOUTH CITY, AND THEN I WAS THINKING ABOUT THIS TRIPLE MURDER TODAY, THEY'VE ARRESTED THE SUSPECT, BUT HOW MANY PEOPLE PROBABLY CALLED WHEN THEY HEARD THOSE GUNSHOTS AND HAD TO WAIT AS WELL.

IT'S INEXCUSABLE AND WE JUST CANNOT CONTINUE TO CLAIM THAT WE WANT TO BE A WORLD-CLASS CITY WHEN THIS KIND OF THING GOES ON.

>> I'LL PILE ON AND JUST SAY THIS, THAT OTHER PLACES, AND YOU HAVE TO DETERMINE WHAT'S REALLY, REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT.

THAT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS.

WELL, SHOULD 911, BE IT THE CITY, COUNTY, RURAL OR WHATEVER, IF SOMEBODY DIALS 911, THERE SHOULD BE IMMEDIATE POLICE RESPONSE.

THEN YOU DEAL WITH WHETHER OR NOT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE THERE OR NOT, BUT TO HAVE A SITUATION LIKE THAT OR OTHER SITUATIONS, IT'S JUST RIDICULOUS.

AND LIKE I SAID, BILL, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE COUNTY AND YOU COME OFF TRYING TO SOUND ALOOF AND WHAT NOT?

BUT SERIOUSLY, I WOULDN'T HAVE IT ANY OTHER WAY.

I MEAN, I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND IT.

>> I THINK IT'S BEYOND RIDICULOUS.

IT'S SO UNBELIEVABLY UNACCEPTABLE, AND THE INTERESTING THING IS, I'VE HEARD CARA TALK ABOUT THIS AND OTHERS, BUT IT HITS YOU IN A DIFFERENT WAY WHEN YOU READ ABOUT IT IN A STORY LIKE THIS IN THE CONTEXT OF A SPECIFIC CRIME A SPECIFIC PERSON WHO'S TRYING TO HELP A POOR WOMAN BEING ASSAULTED, AND HE GETS PUT ON HOLD.

IT SOMEHOW HITS YOU DIFFERENT THAN THE STATISTICS.

>> WELL PUT, RAY.

OKAY, FOLKS -- >> LIKE THE METROLINK STORY.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

WE'RE OUT OF TIME FOR THIS SEGMENT, BUT DON'T GO AWAY BECAUSE IN JUST A MOMENT, WE'RE GOING TO TALK TO DR. ALEX GARZA WHO HEADS UP THE ST. LOUIS PANDEMIC TASK FORCE AND WE'LL BE POSING QUESTIONS HIS WAY ABOUT VACCINES AND MORE.

THAT'S ON NEXT UP.

DON'T TOUCH THAT DIAL.

>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.

>> WELL, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US FOR THE SECOND HALF.

WE CALL THIS NEXT UP, BUT IT'S WHEN WE TALK TO A COMMUNITY LEADER WHO'S KIND ENOUGH TO JOIN US AND ANSWER QUESTIONS.

NOW DR. ALEX GARZA JOINS US FOR THE THIRD TIME SINCE MARCH.

THIS IS A HAT TRICK, DOCTOR.

DR. GARZA IS, OF COURSE, THE HEAD OF THE ST. LOUIS METROPOLITAN PANDEMIC TASK FORCE, AND WOW, FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE THESE PAST 10, 11 MONTHS.

WE SURE APPRECIATE THAT, AND WELCOME BACK TO NEXT UP.

>> THANK YOU, CHARLIE.

I HOPE IT'S NOT A GORDY HOWE HAT TRICK.

>> LET'S START WITH THE AREA YOU'RE QUITE FAMILIAR WITH, VACCINES AND THE CORONAVIRUS.

ABOUT A WEEK OR SO AGO, THIS PANEL WAS TALKING ABOUT HOW MISSOURI WAS RANKED 50th OUT OF 50 STATES, OF COURSE, WHEN IT CAME TO GETTING THE FIRST SHOTS IN INDIVIDUALS, AS A PERCENTAGE.

A PERCENTAGE OUT OF 100,000.

THIS WEEK WE'RE A LITTLE BETTER.

I THINK WE'RE 49th.

ILLINOIS IS NOT ACTUALLY THAT MUCH BETTER EITHER, BUT IT DOES SEEM LIKE OTHER STATES ARE DOING BETTER GETTING THE VACCINE INTO THE ARMS OF THEIR RESIDENTS.

WHY IN YOUR OPINION IS MISSOURI LAGGING?

>> YEAH, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION, CHARLIE, AND I DON'T KNOW IF I HAVE A GREAT ANSWER FOR YOU, BUT I CAN GIVE YOU A COUPLE OF IDEAS.

SO FIRST LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT SOME OF THE EXPERIENCES IN ST. LOUIS.

WE KNOW THAT WITHIN THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEMS IN ST. LOUIS, WE RUN THROUGH VACCINE PRETTY MUCH AS SOON AS WE GET IT.

NOW, I THINK EARLY ON THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT OF A RAMP-UP PERIOD TROIG TO GET PROCESSES UNDER WAY, BUT NOW PRETTY MUCH EVERYBODY IS RUNNING THROUGH ALL THE VACCINE THEY HAVE WITHIN THE WEEK THEY GET IT.

SO THAT'S ONE ISSUE.

THE SECOND THING IS BEFORE LAST WEEK, AND YOU SAW GOVERNOR CAME OUT WITH THE PLAN ON -- I BELIEVE IT WAS MONDAY OF THIS WEEK WHEN HE MADE HIS ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT DISTRIBUTING VACCINE.

IT WAS HIGHLY VARIABLE WHEN YOU WERE GOING TO RECEIVE VACCINE AS A HEALTHCARE SYSTEM OR AS A PUBLIC HEALTH DEPARTMENT.

AND THAT CAUSES A LOT OF CHAOS WHEN IT COMES TO SCHEDULING BECAUSE, OF COURSE, IF YOU SCHEDULE PEOPLE TO GET VACCINE AND THEN YOU DON'T GET VACCINE, THEN YOU'RE SCRAMBLING AND YOU'RE TRYING TO FIGURE THIS OUT.

SO I THINK THERE WAS SOME HESITANCY TO SCHEDULE PEOPLE AS WELL BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T WANT TO SCHEDULE PEOPLE IF YOU WEREN'T SURE IF YOU WERE GOING TO GET VACCINE.

AND THEN THE OTHER PIECE, IF YOU LOOK AT THE TOTAL OF THAT DATA, AND I JUST WENT TO IT RIGHT BEFORE I CAME ON THE SHOW JUST SO I COULD CHECK IT AGAIN.

YOU'RE RIGHT, 49th FOR FIRST DOSE PER 100K, SO WE'RE DOING VERY WELL WITH THAT SECOND DOSE FOR 100K.

SO IT MAKES YOU WONDER WHAT DOES THIS DATA REALLY MEAN?

ARE SOME STATES YG -- SO THERE'S SOME CONCERN ABOUT PEOPLE USING THAT SECOND DOSE AS A FIRST DOSE TO PUMP UP THEIR FIRST DOSE NUMBERS WHERE THE SECOND DOSE NUMBERS ARE REALLY LOW.

THERE COULD BE SOME OF THAT GOING ON.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE AMOUNT DISTRIBUTED COLUMN, MISSOURI IS ONE OF THE LOWER STATES IN THE AMOUNT THAT'S DISTRIBUTED, SO IS THERE AN ALLOCATION PROBLEM?

OBVIOUSLY YOU CAN'T VACCINATE PEOPLE IF YOU DON'T HAVE VACCINE AND THAT NUMBER IS NEVER GOING TO MOVE IF YOU DON'T HAVE VACCINE.

SO THERE'S A LOT OF UNKNOWNS TO REALLY GET, I THINK, A LOT OF CONTEXT TO THOSE NUMBERS.

BUT BE THAT AS IT MAY, IT'S NEVER GOOD BEING 49th OR 50th, SO WE HAVE TO IMPROVE ON THAT.

>> DOCTOR, I THINK IT WAS TODAY OR CERTAINLY RECENTLY, THE CDC SAID THAT THE OXFORD ASTRA ZENECA VACCINE NOT ONLY APPARENTLY SHOWS GREAT PROMISE WHEN IT COMES TO GUARDING AGAINST THE VIRUS, BUT ACTUALLY SLOWING THE SPREAD OF THE VIRUS.

DR. FAUCI SAID IF IT'S TRUE, THAT WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD BE IMPORTANT AND WONDERFUL.

AND I WAS JUST WONDERING, BECAUSE WE'RE HEARING ABOUT THE EFFICACY OF THIS VACCINE OR THAT VACCINE.

>> RIGHT.

>> AND IT KIND OF SEEMS LIKE EVEN IF ONE IS 70% EFFECTIVE OR 60% EFFECTIVE OR 75% EFFECTIVE, IT'S STILL HELPING IN TERMS OF HERD IMMUNITY OR AT LEAST BOLSTERING OUR RESISTANCE.

IS THAT -- AND OBVIOUSLY I'M NOT A DOCTOR, BUT THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT READS.

IS THAT CORRECT?

>> NO, NO, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

JUST TO PUT THIS INTO A LITTLE BIT OF CONTEXT, WHEN WE FIRST STARTED OUT -- AND WHEN I SAY WE, IT'S THE COLLECTIVE WE.

WHEN THE COUNTRY FIRST STARTED OUT ON THIS GRAND PLAN TO MAKE VACCINE EARLY ON IN THE PANDEMIC, WE WERE PLANNING ON AROUND 50% EFFICACY, AND THE FLU SHOT FROM YEAR TO YEAR IS ANYWHERE FROM 30 TO 50, SO JUST TO GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF A BAROMETER.

SO WHEN THE FIRST VACCINES CAME IN AT 95%, THAT WAS LIKE A GAME CHANGER, LIKE THAT IS USUALLY NEVER SEEN.

AND SO THAT WAS INCREDIBLE NEWS.

SO I THINK WE'VE CONDITIONED OURSELVES A LITTLE BIT TO SAY, WELL, WE'VE GOT TO BE AT 95, BUT WE DON'T.

THAT 77% THAT J&J WAS COMING OUT AND THIS 60 TO 70%, THAT'S ALL STILL REALLY GOOD VACCINE.

AND SO WE SHOULDN'T BE THUMBING OUR NOSES AT IT OR SAYING, NO, I'M ONLY GOING TO GET THE 95.

THAT'S NOT TRUE.

THE THING THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS DECREASING TRANSMISSION.

SO THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE OTHER VACCINES CANNOT PREVENT TRANSMISSION.

IT JUST MEANS IT WASN'T STUDIED TO DO THAT.

IT WAS STUDIED TO PREVENT SEVERE ILLNESS AND DEATH.

NOW, IT VERY WELL MAY END UP BEING THAT IT PREVENTS TRANSMISSION AS WELL JUST LIKE THE OTHER --THE ASTRA ZENECA VACCINE.

IT JUST HASN'T BEEN STUDIED YET AND THAT'S WHY.

>> DOCTOR, WHEN THE PANDEMIC FIRST BEGAN, IT WAS EASY TO UNDERSTAND WHY EVERYBODY WAS CONFUSED AND NOBODY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING, BUT WE'VE BEEN EXPECTING A VACCINE FROM THE VERY BEGINNING.

AND IT SEEMS LIKE, YOU KNOW, HERE IT IS KIND OF A YEAR LATER AND WE FINALLY GET THE VACCINE AND IT STILL DOESN'T SEEM LIKE WE KNOW WHAT WE'RE DOING.

I DON'T MEAN TO BE POINTING FINGERS AT YOU, BUT, YOU KNOW, IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE THERE'S MUCH COORDINATION.

PEOPLE DON'T KNOW WHETHER THEY'RE GOING TO GET IT FROM THIS HOSPITAL OR THE COUNTY HEALTH OR THAT HOSPITAL, AND DIFFERENT ENTITIES HAVE DIFFERENT IDEAS OF WHO SHOULD GET IT FIRST.

IT JUST DOESN'T SEEM -- IT SEEMS LIKE WE WERE SHOCKED AND DELIGHTED WHEN WE GOT THE VACCINE, BUT WEREN'T READY FOR IT.

WHERE AM I WRONG?

>> NO, NO, I DON'T THINK YOU'RE WRONG, BILL.

BUT WHAT I WOULD ADD, THOUGH, IS THAT I DON'T THINK PEOPLE UNDERSTOOD THE COMPLEXITY.

SO LET ME WALK THROUGH A COUPLE OF THINGS.

SO THE AMOUNT OF VACCINE THAT IS COMING FROM THE -- IT GOES FROM FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO STATE GOVERNMENT AND THEN DOWN TO THE LOCALS.

THE AMOUNT THAT HAS BEEN BECOME AVAILABLE IS VERY SMALL.

SO WHENEVER YOU HAVE A SCARCE RESOURCE, THEN IT BECOMES MUCH MORE COMPLEX IN ALLOCATION BECAUSE NOW YOU'RE TRYING TO DECIDE WHO IN THE POPULATION GETS THIS SCARCE RESOURCE.

AND SO IT'S FOR DIFFERENT FROM ANY OTHER SCARCE RESOURCE.

WE WENT THROUGH THIS IN MEDICINE YEARS AGO WITH DIALYSIS MACHINES TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHO'S WORTHY OF GETTING DIALYSIS.

THAT'S ONE THING.

THE SECOND THING, AND I THINK THIS IS A FAIR CRITICISM, IS THAT THERE WAS NOT A NATIONAL SORT OF PLAN GOING THROUGH ALL OF THIS.

NOW, THERE WAS THIS TIERING PROCESS, BUT, YOU KNOW, THOSE TIERS ARE VERY LARGE, SO IF YOU LOOK AT WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW.

WE HAVE THAT 1A, WHICH I THINK WE'RE GETTING CLOSE TO CALLING THE END OF THAT.

WE HAVE THAT 1B1, WHICH IS YOUR FIRST RESPONDERS AND WE'RE WORKING THROUGH THAT, BUT THE 1B2, THAT'S A HUGE POPULATION.

THAT'S OVER 65, 18 TO 64 WITH A MEDICAL CONDITION.

NOW YOU HAVE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE AND YOU HAVE A FRACTION OF DOSES.

SO NOW IT'S INCUMBENT UPON US TO THINK ABOUT HOW CAN I, IN THIS BIG BUCKET OF PEOPLE, NOW MAKE SURE WITH SOME EQUITY AS WELL, BE ABLE TO VACCINATE THE MOST VULNERABLE.

SO THINK ABOUT PEOPLE THAT ARE OLDER BECAUSE WE KNOW OLDER PEOPLE GET MUCH MORE SICK AND THEY HAVE A HIGHER RATE OF DEATH THAN THE OTHER POPULATIONS.

PEOPLE WITH CERTAIN DISEASES AND DONE FORGET THE EQUITY QUESTION.

SO I THINK WHAT WAS -- IN ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION, I THINK WHAT WASN'T ALL THE WAY THOUGHT THROUGH WAS WHAT IF WE ONLY HAVE 15,000 DOSES FOR, YOU KNOW, TWO MILLION PEOPLE?

HOW ARE WE GOING TO SEGMENT THAT POPULATION EVEN FURTHER?

WHAT SHOULD BE THE GUIDANCE THAT WE'RE GIVING?

AND REMEMBER, EACH STATE HAS THEIR OWN, BASICALLY, VACCINATION CRITERIA.

IT FOLLOWS A GENERAL PATTERN, BUT THE GOVERNOR GETS TO CHOOSE.

LIKE THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE ELIGIBLE.

BUT IT MAKES IT INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT THEN TO SAY WHO DESERVES THE VACCINE THE MOST.

I MEAN, NOT WHO DESERVES, BUT WHO IT DOES HELP THE MOST WITH THE LOCAL HEALTH DEPARTMENTS AND THE LOCAL HEALTHCARE PROVIDERS.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE STRUGGLING WITH RIGHT NOW, TO COME UP WITH WHAT IS THAT POPULATION.

AND IT'S FRUSTRATING.

IT'S FRUSTRATING FOR US, IT'S FRUSTRATING FOR THE PUBLIC, IT'S FRUSTRATING FOR EVERYBODY.

BOTTOM LINE IS, WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH VACCINE.

THAT IS THE BOTTOM LINE.

>> WELL, WE ALL LOOK FORWARD -- >> OH, I'M SORRY.

>> I'M SORRY.

IT'S YOUR TURN.

>> OKAY.

WHO KNOWS?

DOCTOR, THE LEAD STORY THIS AFTERNOON IN BILL'S NEWSPAPER IS THAT THERE'S MORE THAN 300 PHARMACIES IN ILLINOIS HAVE RECEIVED VACCINES AS PART OF THIS NEW PROGRAM AND THAT NUMBER EXCEEDS MISSOURI BY MORE THAN 300, MEANING MISSOURI HAS ZERO.

AND THAT'S GREAT FOR OUR ILLINOIS VIEWERS, OF COURSE, BUT -- AND I KNOW IT'S AWKWARD BECAUSE YOU HAVE, PART OF YOUR JOB, YOU HAVE TO WORK WITH THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SENIOR SERVICES, BUT IS THERE SOME GOOD REASON WHY IT WOULD BE MORE THAN 300 IN ILLINOIS AND ZERO IN MISSOURI?

THE STORIES IN MISSOURI ARE DHS WANTS BACK THE VACCINES THAT HAVE ALREADY GONE TO THE WALGREENS.

CAN YOU HELP US MAKE SENSE OF THAT?

>> YES, LET ME DESCRIBE WHAT THOSE VACCINES REPRESENT FIRST.

SO THE VACCINE THAT MISSOURI WANTS TO PULL BACK FROM CVS AND WALGREENS IS PART OF THE FEDERAL PROGRAM.

SO THINK OF VACCINE DIVIDED BETWEEN THE FEDERAL PROGRAM, WHICH WAS SUPPOSED TO GO TO CVS AND WALGREENS FOR NURSING HOMES AND LONG-TERM CARE.

AND THEN THERE'S THE APPORTIONMENT THAT GOES TO THE STATE, AND THAT'S THE PART THAT YOU HEAR THE MOST ABOUT.

THE ALLOTMENT THAT WENT TO CVS AND WALGREEN'S WAS TO NURSING HOMES AND LONG-TERM CARE, AND THERE WAS SOME CONCERNS THAT THEY WERE NOT VACCINATING EITHER FAST ENOUGH OR THERE WAS SOME CHALLENGES WITH GETTING INTO THE NURSING HOMES, WHATEVER.

BUT THEY HAD A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF VACCINE THAT WAS, YOU KNOW, REMAINING UNUSED.

AND SO THE -- FROM WHAT I'VE READ, AND I KNOW JUST AS MUCH AS YOU DO, IS THAT THE GOVERNOR THEN DECIDED TO TAKE THAT AMOUNT THAT WAS NOT BEING USED IN THE FEDERAL PROGRAM AND PULL IT OUT AND PUT IT INTO THE STATE PROGRAM.

SO THAT'S THE ONE PIECE.

THE PIECE THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IN ILLINOIS IS, AGAIN, ANOTHER FEDERAL PROGRAM THAT DIRECT SHIPS TO PHARMACIES, BUT THAT'S MORE FOR PUBLIC USE, NOT FOR THAT LONG-TERM CARE USE.

AND THAT DIFFERS FROM STATE TO STATE.

ILLINOIS IS DOING IT, MISSOURI IS NOT, AND THAT'S REALLY UP TO, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ABOVE MY PAY GRADE ON HOW THEY WANT TO DO THAT.

NOW, THE BOTTOM LINE, THOUGH, IS WHATEVER IS THE MOST EFFICIENT WAY FOR US TO GET SHOTS IN ARMS, AND AS I SAID AT THE TOP OF THE HOUR, WE'RE MOVING THROUGH VACCINE VERY QUICKLY IN THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM, PUBLIC HEALTH IS AS WELL, THESE MASS VACCINATION SITES, AND SO WHETHER ADDING ANOTHER OUTLET IS GOING TO IMPROVE THAT RATE OR NOT, I DON'T KNOW.

I THINK WHEN MORE VACCINE BECOMES AVAILABLE, DEFINITELY GOING TO BE MOVING INTO THOSE PHARMACY SITES BECAUSE ANYTIME YOU CAN INCREASE AVAILABILITY, YOU'RE GOING TO INCREASE THAT RATE.

BUT WITH SUCH A SCARCE AMOUNT THAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW, IT MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO SORT OF DIFFUSE THAT ACROSS MULTIPLE DIFFERENT VACCINATION SITE.

>> IF THERE'S ANY PART OF THIS WHERE YOU DON'T KNOW ANY MORE THAN I DO, THIS IS VERY CONCERNING TO ME.

I KNOW HOW HARD YOU WORK, BUT THAT'S CONCERNING THAT YOU WOULD NOT KNOW.

>> YEAH, WELL, YOU KNOW, I KNOW WHAT I HEAR ON PHONE CALLS.

THERE'S NOT TOO MUCH DIFFERENT THAN WHAT YOU HEAR IN THE PRESS, BUT EACH STATE SORT OF HAS THEIR OWN IDEAS ON HOW THEY WANT TO GO ABOUT THEIR VACCINATION PROCESS, AND SO THE STATE OF ILLINOIS TSH AND I THINK IT HAS TO DO WITH CONCENTRATION OF THOSE DRUGSTORES AS WELL.

YOU KNOW, CVS IS HEADQUARTERED IN CHICAGO, SO THEY HAVE GREAT PENETRATION IN ILLINOIS, MAYBE NOT AS MUCH IN MISSOURI.

I THINK ALL OF THAT GOES INTO THE DECISION FACTOR AS WELL.

>> DOCTOR, I'M SURE YOU'RE AWARE OF THIS, BUT OBVIOUSLY THE VACCINE IS IN SHORT SUPPLY, BUT SOME OF THAT VACCINE OVER THE WEEKEND WENT TO SOME YOUNGER PEOPLE WHO WOULD HAVE BEEN, LIKE, MAYBE DOWN TOWARD THE END OF THE HIS, BUT YET THEY WERE ABLE TO GET THE VACCINE WHILE OTHERS CANNOT.

CAN YOU MISTAKEN WHAT WENT ON MAYBE OTHER THAN PEOPLE JUST, YOU KNOW, PURPOSELY CHECKING THE WRONG BOXES?

OR ONCE YOU GET THERE AND IT SAYS, YOU LOOK 24 YEARS OLD TO ME, I'M NOT GIVING YOU THIS SHOT.

WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO STOP THAT TYPE OF THING, ESPECIALLY SINCE WE'RE TRYING TO WORK OUR WAY TO I GUESS MASS INOCULATION SITES?

>> YEAH, YEAH, I REALLY DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT WENT WRONG WITH THAT.

I READ THE SAME STORIES AND HEARD THE SAME CONCERNS, AND RIGHTFULLY SO, THE CONCERNS ABOUT PEOPLE NOT BEING ELIGIBLE GETTING VACCINES.

SO LET ME EXPLAIN A LITTLE BIT, THOUGH B SOME OF THE DIFFERENT PROCESSES FOR GETTING VACCINATION.

AGAIN, THIS ISN'T THE -- BACK TO BILL'S QUESTION ABOUT CONFUSION, I THINK THIS IS ALSO ONE OF THE CONFUSING PIECES.

SO THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEMS, WE UNDERSTAND WHO OUR PATIENT POPULATIONS ARE BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE THEIR MEDICAL RECORDS.

SO WE CAN SORT OF SELF-IDENTIFY PATIENTS THAT ARE OLDER, PATIENTS WITH MEDICAL CONDITIONS THAT PUT THEM AT HIGH RISK.

SO WE'RE ABLE TO IDENTIFY THEM AND THEN WE CAN SEND THEM INVITATIONS TO GET SCHEDULED AND FILL UP OUR VACCINATION SCHEDULES.

ON THE PUBLIC HEALTH SIDE, THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF A DEFICIT BECAUSE THEY'RE RELYING ON PEOPLE TO BE HONEST ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HEALTH CONDITIONS AND AGE AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

AND SO WHEN THEY SIGN UP ON THESE PUBLIC WEBSITES, YOU KNOW, YOU PUT YOUR AGE IN AND YOU PUT IN IF YOU HAVE A CHRONIC MEDICAL CONDITION.

NOW, I ALSO HEARD THAT ONE OF THE CHECKBOXES ON THE CITY SITE, THE BM I, THE BODY MASS INDEX, WAS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE, SO THAT MAY HAVE HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH THAT.

SO THERE'S A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT REASONS.

ONE OTHER THING I HEARD TODAY FROM ONE OF OUR PARTNERS IN THE REGION IS THAT THERE ARE YOUNGER PEOPLE WITH CHRONIC CONDITIONS.

SO THINK ABOUT PEOPLE WITH SICKLE CELL OR WITH CANCER, THINGS LIKE THAT, WHERE THEY ARE BEING BERATED FOR BEING IN LINE GETTING VACCINE AS WELL.

SO IT SORT OF CUTS BOTH WAYS.

WE DON'T GET TO GET INTO THIS, WHAT ONE OF MY FRIENDS CALLED VACCINE HUNGER GAMES AS WELL, WHERE SOMEBODY WHO ABSOLUTELY QUALIFIES FOR VACCINING BUT THEY'RE YOUNGER, BUT THEY DO HAVE A DISEASE, GETS CRITICIZED FOR BEING IN LINE AS WELL.

YOU KNOW, THIS IS JUST ONE MORE COMPLEXITY WHEN IT COMES TO TRYING TO DISTRIBUTE A VERY SCARCE RESOURCE AND PROTECT THE MOST VULNERABLE.

>> WELL, DOCTOR, SINCE THE SHORTAGE OF VACCINE SEEMS TO BE A MAJOR PROBLEM FOR MISSOURI AND ILLINOIS AND THE ENTIRE COUNTRY, DO YOU KNOW IF WE SHOULD BE INVOKING THE DEFENSE PRODUCTION ACT AND KIND OF GETTING INTO WARTIME PRODUCTION MEASURES?

ALL HANDS ON DECK, WHERE'S ROSY THE RIVETER LIKE WE DID IN THE 1940s WHEN GERMANY WAS OUR ENEMY?

AT THIS POINT, SHOULD WE CONSIDER THE CORONAVIRUS KIND OF LIKE THE ENEMY AND WE SHOULD BE TAKING THE ANHEUSER BUSCH FACTORY AND CONVERTED IT INTO MAKING SOME SORT OF MEDICINE THAT WILL VACCINATE EVERYBODY IN MISSOURI AND ILLINOIS?

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

ACTUALLY, WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN DOING THAT ABOUT 12 MONTHS AGO, BUT WE ARE WHERE WE ARE, AND SO AS YOU KNOW, I ALWAYS LIKE TO USE DONALD RUMSFELD'S QUOTE, YOU GO TO WAR WITH THE ARMY THAT YOU HAVE, NOT THE ONE YOU WANT.

SO THIS IS THE ONE WE HAVE.

ABSOLUTELY, WE SHOULD BE USING THE DEFENSE PRODUCTION ACT TO IMPROVE PRODUCTION.

NOW, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, THE CHALLENGING PIECE IS THE MANUFACTURING PART BECAUSE, REMEMBER, THIS IS A COMPLETELY NEW VACCINE.

AT LEAST THE PFIZER AND MODERNA VACCINE.

IT'S A MESSENGER RNA VACCINE, NOBODY HAS EVER USED THIS BEFORE, SO IT'S FAIRLY SOPHISTICATED TECHNOLOGY TO MAKE IT.

SO AS EASY AS IT SOUNDS, HEY, WE COULD CONVERT SOME FACTORIES TO START DOING THIS, I DON'T THINK IT'S AT SIMPLE AS THAT.

BUT THINGS THAT WE CAN DO IS TO HELP OUT WITH THE PRODUCTION, SO WHETHER THAT'S PRODUCING MORE GLASS VIALS OR SYRINGES OR OTHER THOSE OTHER SUPPORT THINGS THAT GO ALONG WITH THE VACCINE, WE CAN DEFINITELY USE THE DEFENSE PRODUCTION ACT TO DO THAT.

NOW, YOU KNOW, IF YOU THINK WAY BACK -- WHEN I SAY "WAY BACK," IT WAS LIKE NOVEMBER OF LAST YEAR, NOT THAT LONG AGO, WE WERE TOLD THAT PRODUCTION WOULD PICK UP BY JANUARY AND, YOU KNOW, MILLIONS OF MORE DOSES, COMING OUT, BUT THAT TURNS OUT TO NOT BE TRUE OR NOT BE AS FAST AS WE WOULD LIKE IT TO BE.

SO PLAYING A LITTLE BIT OF CATCH-UP HERE AND BECAUSE OF THE SOPHISTICATION OF THE VACCINE, IT'S DIFFICULT TO SORT OF RAMP UP THAT MANUFACTURING CAPABILITY.

SO WE'RE IN IT.

IT'S A DIFFICULT PROBLEM TO TRY AND SOLVE.

>> WELL, THE SITTING PRESIDENT WAS PREOCCUPIED SO, YOU KNOW, LET ME SAY.

>> I LIKE CHARLIE'S IDEA ABOUT PUTTING -- WAS IT THE BEER IN THE VACCINE OR THE VACCINE IN THE BEER?

>> THAT'S CALLED THE PLACEBO EFFECT.

>> OKAY.

>> I'LL VOLUNTEER FOR THAT STUDY.

>> THERE YOU GO.

>> WENDY?

>> BUT THE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE -- AND I KNOW THAT YOUR COLLEAGUES ACROSS THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY ARE STUPEFIED BY THE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE WHO REFUSE TO GET THE VACCINE.

YOUR COLLEAGUE, DR. MICHAEL KINCH AT WASHINGTON YOU'VE THIS WEEK, COMPARED TO IT ALLOWING THE JAPANESE TO BOMB PEARL HARBOR OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S THAT DETRIMENTAL TO THE NATION.

CAN YOU ADD YOUR TWO CENTS IN TERMS OF ENCOURAGING PEOPLE WHO REFUSE TO GET THE VACCINE TO ROLL UP THEIR SHIRTS, PLEASE?

>> YEAH, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION, WENDY, AND IT'S A TRICKY BALANCE.

SO WE KNOW EVEN IN HEALTHCARE THAT THERE'S SOME HESITANCY TO GET VACCINES, AND IT SORT OF PLAYS ALONG A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT PLANES.

ONE IS SORT OF TRYING TO SQUASH THE RUMOR MILL.

SO THERE WAS THE -- AN INTERNET RUMOR THAT THIS VACCINE WOULD MAKE YOUNG FEMALES INFERTILE.

AND SO WE HAD TO COME OUT WITH A MESSAGING CAMPAIGN FOR OUR OWN WORKERS WHO WERE AFRAID TO GET THE VACCINE BECAUSE OF THIS, WITH OUR MATERNAL FETAL EXPERTS TO TALK TO THEM AND SAY, LOOK, THIS INTRUE.

THERE'S NO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THIS, SO THEY WOULD BECOME MORE ACCEPTING OF VACCINE.

THE SECOND SORT OF LEVEL IS IN, YOU KNOW, THE LEVEL OF EDUCATION OR HOW MUCH DO YOU UNDERSTAND ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE SCIENCE THAT GOES INTO VACCINATIONS.

SO WHAT WE FOUND IS THAT, YOU KNOW, WITH OUR POPULATIONS THAT ARE HIGHER EDUCATED, SO THINK OF THOSE PHYSICIANS AND NURSES AND THINGS LIKE THAT T WERE MUCH MORE WILLING TO ACCEPT VACCINES THAN SOME OF THE OTHER POPULATIONS WITHIN HEALTHCARE.

SO THINK ABOUT THINGS LIKE HOUSEKEEPING OR JANITORIAL STAFF.

THAT SORT OF BLEEDS INTO SOME OF THE CULTURAL ISSUES WITH VACCINATIONS.

SO THERE'S A COUPLE OF THINGS THERE.

SO THERE'S DEFINITELY AN ANTI-VAXXER COMMUNITY OUT THERE AND THEY'RE VERY DIFFICULT TO CONVERT TO TAKING VACCINE.

DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S COVID VACCINE OR MEASLES OR ANYTHING.

BUT THERE'S HEALTHY SKEPTICISM AMONG OTHER POPULATIONS, PARTICULARLY IN THE AFRICAN AMERICAN POPULATION WHERE THEY HAVE GOOD REASON TO BE SUSPICIOUS OF HEALTHCARE BECAUSE OF PREVIOUS WRONGS.

WHETHER THAT THAT'S TUSK GUY AIRMEN EXPERIENCE OR HENRIETTA LOCKS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

AS I TOLD PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, CHARLIE, YOU REFERRED TO THIS AS WARTIME AND YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

IN WARTIME, AS MANY OF YOU KNOW, I'M IN THE MILITARY AND I'VE DEPLOYED TO WAR.

HALF OF WAR IS INFORMATION AND MESSAGING, SO YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE GETTING THE CORRECT MESSAGE OUT, BUT ALSO WHO IS DELIVERING THE MESSAGE.

SO, YOU KNOW, DR. GARZA CAN STAND UP HERE AND TALK ALL DAY ABOUT VACCINE AND ABOUT P-VALUES AND EFFICACY RATES, BUT THEY ALSO NEED TO HEAR IT FROM SOMEBODY THAT THEY TRUST.

SOMEBODY THAT LOOKS LIKE THEM, YOU KNOW, IS ABLE TO SEE WHO THEY ARE IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

SO IT HAS TO BE A REALLY DIFFUSE MESSAGE, AND THAT'S HOW WE CONVINCE PEOPLE THAT THIS IS A GOOD THING TO DO.

IT'S GOING TO TAKE SOME TIME AND I THINK PEOPLE ARE A LITTLE HESITANT, BUT ONCE THEY SEE MORE PEOPLE GETTING VACCINE AS WELL AND, YOU KNOW, THEIR ARM IS NOT FALLING OFF AND THEY'RE NOT GROWING THREE HEADS, THEN IT BECOMES A LITTLE BIT MORE ACCEPTABLE AS WELL.

SO I DO THINK IT WILL PICK UP, BUT, YOU KNOW, INFORMATION IS REALLY HALF THE BATTLE.

>> DOCTOR, LET'S TALK ABOUT TIMELINES AND WHEN YOU THINK THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE MORE SETTLED SITUATION.

FOR INSTANCE, TAKE THE HYPOTHETICAL GRANDFATHER WHO'S GOING TO HAVE HIS SHOT AND HIS WIFE IS GOING TO HAVE HER SHOT AND THEY'RE THINKING OF TAKING TWO OF THEIR GRAND KIDS TO DISNEY WORLD IN EARLY JUNE.

NOW, DO YOU THINK THAT THE WORLD WILL BE SETTLED ENOUGH THAT THAT GRANDFATHER WILL BE SAFE DOING THAT?

>> I'M REALLY HOPEFUL THAT IT WILL, BILL.

SO LET ME EXPLAIN SORT OF MY RATIONALE FOR THINKING THIS.

SO IF WE'RE LOOKING AT OUR DATA RIGHT NOW FOR HOSPITALIZATIONS AND ADMISSIONS, AND IT'S COME DOWN AND IT'S COME DOWN RATHER PRECIPITOUSLY SINCE WE HIT THAT HIGH WATER MARK IN LIKE NOVEMBER, DECEMBER, JANUARY TIMEFRAME.

WE THINK THAT'S BEEN A CONTRIBUTION FROM A COUPLE OF THINGS.

SO I THINK PEOPLE ARE ADHERING TO THE MITIGATION STRATEGIES.

THEY DIDN'T GET TOGETHER OVER THE HOLIDAYS, THINGS LIKE THAT.

I WOULDN'T DISCOUNT THE CONTRIBUTION FROM VACCINATING PEOPLE IN LONG-TERM CARE, NURSING HOMES AND OTHER PLACES TO BRINGING THAT NUMBER DOWN.

SO WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT?

BECAUSE THOSE ARE PEOPLE THAT COME TO THE HOSPITAL, THAT MORE READILY ARE ADMITTED TO THE INTENSIVE CARE UNIT, AND CONSUME A LOT OF HEALTHCARE RESOURCES.

SO IF WE CAN SAFELY PROTECT THAT POPULATION, A LOT OF THE POPULATION HAS BECOME AN ASYMPTOMATIC, YOU KNOW, CARRIER AND THEY'VE GOTTEN BETTER.

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT TOTAL POPULATION IS.

WE THINK IT'S PROBABLY MAYBE 15% OF THE POPULATION, STILL UNSURE.

NOBODY KNOWS REALLY.

AND THEN IF WE CONTINUE TO DO VACCINATIONS THROUGH THESE DIFFERENT AGE GROUPS AND PRIORITY GROUPS, I DO THINK THAT WE'RE GOING TO GET TO THAT POINT PROBABLY BY LATE SPRING, EARLY SUMMER, WHERE IT WILL LOOK AND FEEL MORE NORMAL, WHERE YOU WILL START SEEING RESTAURANTS BECOMING MUCH MORE OPEN, HAVING MORE PEOPLE THERE, BE MORE TRAVEL, THINGS OF THAT NATURE.

SO I AM PRETTY HOPEFUL THAT WE CAN GET TO SOME DEGREE OF NORMALCY BY THAT BEGINNING OF SUMMER TIMEFRAME.

>> THANK YOU FOR THAT.

>> DOCTOR, I WANT TO SKU KIND OF OFF OF THAT QUESTION, IT SEEMS LIKE EVERY DAY WE'RE HEARING A DIFFERENT MESSAGE OR -- ABOUT THE SERIOUSNESS OR CONCERN ABOUT THE VARIANTS, MUTATIONS, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL THAT, THE NEW VIRUSES THAT MIGHT COMPOUND THE PROBLEM.

WHAT IS YOUR LATEST THINKING?

YOU KNOW, IT SEEMS LIKE IT CHANGES.

MAYBE IT'S JUST ME, BUT I -- WHAT IS YOUR FEELING ABOUT HOW CONCERNED WE NEED TO BE ABOUT THESE VARIANTS AND SO FORTH?

>> TWO MINUTES TO GO.

>> YEAH, SO THAT'S -- IT'S SORT OF A WILD CARD OUT THERE.

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CONTRIBUTION IS GOING TO BE.

WE DO KNOW THAT THE VACCINES AT LEAST HAVE SOME EFFICACY AGAINST IT.

MAYBE NOT AS MUCH AS THE NORMAL VARIANT, BUT AT LEAST SOME TO PROTECT THE PERSON.

THE OTHER THING IS THE PROTECTION STRATEGIES DON'T CHANGE.

AS LONG AS WE KEEP UP OUR PROTECTION STRATEGIES, MEANING WEARING MASKS, SOCIALLY DISTANCED, NOT GATHERING IN GROUPS, THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT STILL PROTECTS YOU AGAINST THESE OTHER VARIANTS.

WE CANNOT LET UP ON ANY OF THAT BECAUSE THE RISK OF BECOMING INFECTED IF YOU SLIP UP IS THAT MUCH HIGHER WITH THESE OTHER VARIANTS.

>> A MINUTE TO GO, ALVIN.

>> BLACK PEOPLE, GET THE VACCINATION!

ALL RIGHT.

NO, MY MOM GOT IT, SHE'S PERFECTLY FINE.

AND ALSO, DR. GARZA, I WOULD JUST -- PIECE OF ADVICE, THE SYPHILIS STUDY AT TUSKEGEE, THERE'S A LARGE PART OF THE AFRICAN AMERICAN POPULATION DOESN'T EVEN-FOR-WHAT THAT IS.

I THINK -- EVEN KNOW WHAT THAT IS.

I THINK THE BIG PROBLEM IS GET ACROSS YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE, DON'T HAVE TO HAVE ANY MONEY.

GET ON A LIST.

IS THAT WISE ADVICE?

>> GREAT POINT, ALVIN URK THANK YOU.

>> I APPRECIATE THAT TANE APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS TODAY, DR. GARZA.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

WE REALLY APPRECIATE THE TIME YOU TOOK TO ANSWER OUR QUESTIONS.

IF PEOPLE WANT MORE INFORMATION, THEY WANT TO FIND A VACCINATION SITE, IS THERE, LIKE, THE BEST PLACE TO GO?

IS THIS ONE BEST PLACE?

>> LIKE I SAID, I'LL ALWAYS PROMOTE OUR ST. LOUIS METROPOLITAN PANDEMIC FACEBOOK PAGE.

WE HAVE ALL THE LINKS TO THE DIFFERENT HEALTHCARE SYSTEMS, PHONE NUMBERS TO HEALTH DEPARTMENTS, PLACES LIKE THAT WHERE PEOPLE CAN GO TO AND GET THAT INFORMATION.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> YOU'RE WELCOME.

THANKS, CHARLIE.

>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.