>> HI I'M MARC ROTTERMAN.

COMING UP ON FRONT ROW, WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE JOHN HOPKINS UNIVERSITY STUDY ON COVID-19 LOCKDOWNS, DISCUSS THE VACANCY AT THE U.S. SUPREME COURT, AND WILL THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY LEGALIZE ONLINE GAMBLING?

NEXT.

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[UPBEAT MUSIC] ♪ >> WELCOME BACK JOINING THE CONVERSATION, MITCH KOKAI WITH THE JOHN LOCKE FOUNDATION, JONAH KAPLAN WITH ABC NEWS 11, POLITICAL ANALYST JOE STEWART, AND NELSON DOLLAR SENIOR POLICY ADVISOR NORTH CAROLINA SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE.

MITCH LET'S BEGIN WITH A NEW STUDY ON COVID-19 LOCKDOWNS.

>> EVER SINCE IT BECAME CLEAR THAT COVID-19 IS GOING TO BE A MAJOR PROBLEM EARLY IN 2020 POLICYMAKERS TRYING TO DECIDE WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT FOLLOWED SOME GUIDING PRINCIPLES, AMONG THEM FOLLOW THE SCIENCE.

BUT ONE OF THE PROBLEMS WAS THAT THERE WASN'T A WHOLE LOT OF SCIENCE TO TELL US WHAT TO DO ABOUT COVID-19.

A LOT OF IT WAS INCOMPLETE AND INACCURATE, SOMETIMES CONTRADICTORY.

STILL ONE OF THE POLICIES THAT WAS ADOPTED BY GOVERNMENTS AROUND THE WORLD WAS LOCKDOWNS.

AND NOW THIS NEW STUDY FROM JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY SAYS THAT WAS A BAD IDEA.

BASICALLY IT SAYS THAT THERE WAS LITTLE TO NO EFFECT ON COVID-19 MORTALITY FROM THESE LOCKDOWNS.

BUT THEY ALSO IMPOSED ENORMOUS ECONOMIC AND SOCIAL COSTS.

AMONG OTHER THINGS THAT THIS STUDY SAID IS THAT LOCKDOWNS WERE ILL-FOUNDED AND SHOULD BE REJECTED AS A PANDEMIC POLICY INSTRUMENT.

THIS WAS A STUDY THAT WAS DONE BY RESEARCHERS BASED AT JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY, BUT INVOLVED RESEARCHERS IN THE U.S. SWEDEN AND DENMARK.

SO THIS WASN'T JUST A UNITED STATES CENTRIC FINDING.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S INTERESTING HAS BEEN THE RESPONSE TO THIS.

THERE WAS ONE PROFESSOR FROM JOHNS HOPKINS, HE'S MADE A BIG DEAL OF THE OUT OF THE FACT THAT HIS OWN UNIVERSITY AND A LOT OF MEDIA OUTLETS HAVE SEEN TO PUT THIS STUDY TO THE SIDE, WHICH IS BAD NEWS FOR SOMETHING THAT SHOWS LOCKDOWNS HAVE SUCH A - >> JONAH, HAS THE MEDIA SLOW-WALKED THIS STORY?

>> I WILL SAY WHAT STICKS OUT TO ME, I WANT TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION, I WORK IN THE MEDIA.

WHAT STICKS OUT TO ME IS JOHN HOPKINS HAS BEEN THE PREEMINENT RESOURCE IN COMPUTING AND REPORTING THE NUMBER OF COVID-19 CASES, THE NUMBER OF HOSPITALIZATIONS, THE NUMBER OF DEATHS.

SO IT'S IT'S NOT REALLY IRONY.

I THINK IT ACTUALLY GIVES THE STORY CREDIBILITY AND THIS REPORT CREDIBILITY, BECAUSE IF THERE'S ANY ENTITY THAT HAS BEEN, AGAIN, THE RESOURCES AND RELIED UPON FOR GIVING US DATA ABOUT COVID-19 METRICS, IT'S JOHN HOPKINS UNIVERSITY.

AND QUARANTINES ARE NOTHING NEW, WE QUARANTINE PEOPLE FOR EBOLA, WE'VE QUARANTINED FOR SCARLETT FEVER, BUT IT'S NEVER BEEN ON SUCH A MASSIVE SCALE.

WHICH, IT WAS JUST SO WIDESPREAD AND IT WAS TOUGH TO CONCEIVE THAT IT WOULD HAVE MADE A DIFFERENCE.

>> NELSON DID FAUCI GET THIS WRONG?

>> WELL, THEY DID.

AND THE LONG-TERM COST OF THESE LOCKDOWNS RESULTED, YOU KNOW, IN GOVERNMENT POLICIES THAT HAVE GIVEN US HIGH INFLATION THAT'S GOING TO PERSIST FOR A WHILE.

BECAUSE THEY PUMPED ALL THE MONEY IN THE ECONOMY.

>> WAS ABOUT POLITICAL POWER OR PUBLIC HEALTH.

>> I THINK THE INTEREST WAS IN PUBLIC HEALTH, BUT IT HAS RAISED - I THINK IT HAS MORPHED INTO POLITICAL POWER, FAR MORE CONTROL AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL.

ALTHOUGH I THINK IS INTERESTING BECAUSE OF THE IMPACTS, THE MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS, WHAT'S HAPPENED TO OUR STUDENTS IN SCHOOLS, AND THE RESULT OF LOST ACADEMIC AND SOCIAL CONNECTIONS WITH SO MANY YOUNG PEOPLE.

THE CRISIS THAT IT'S CREATED HAS BEEN VERY INSTRUCTIVE.

AND IN 2021, BIDEN CHOSE NOT TO GO BACK TO LOCKDOWNS, EVEN THOUGH DELTA AND OMICRON HAVE CAUSED MORE HOSPITALIZATIONS AND MORE DEATHS THAN THE ORIGINAL INFECTION.

>> JOE, WEIGH IN HERE.

>> LET'S HOPE THAT THE PARTISAN DIVIDE THAT OUR NATION UNFORTUNATELY SUFFERS FROM NOW DOESN'T KEEP US FROM LEGITIMATELY TRYING TO LEARN SOME LESSONS FROM HOW WE RESPONDED TO COVID-19.

WE CAN DO BETTER AND WE'LL LEARN THINGS ALONG THE WAY THAT WE CAN APPLY THE NEXT TIME, NOT NECESSARILY WHEN THERE'S A PANDEMIC BUT SOME OTHER EITHER MANMADE OR NATURAL DISASTER THAT NECESSITATES GOOD THOUGHTFUL PUBLIC POLICY IN AN APPROACH THAT KEEPS PEOPLE SAFE WILL NOT DISCOURAGING ECONOMIC ACTIVITY.

I JUST HOPE WE CAN HAVE THAT CONVERSATION AND LEARN THE LESSONS FROM COVID-19 THAT WILL BE HELPFUL TO ALL OF US.

>> MITCH FINAL THOUGHTS, ABOUT 30 SECONDS?

>> YEAH, THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS UNPRECEDENTED, SO THE IDEA OF HAVING A LOCKDOWN WAS NOT OUT OF THE REALM OF POSSIBILITY, WAS NOT SOMETHING THAT, ESPECIALLY EARLY ON, THAT A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE WERE OBJECTING TO.

BUT ONCE IT BECAME CLEAR THAT LOCKDOWNS HAVE THESE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES THAT'S WHEN GOVERNMENT SHOULD HAVE STARTED TO - MOVING AWAY FROM THIS MOVING TOWARD SOME OTHER SOLUTIONS.

HOPEFULLY SOME PEOPLE WILL SEE THIS JOHNS HOPKINS REPORT AND SAY, HEY, NO LOCKDOWNS THE NEXT TIME WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS.

>> OK. NELSON, I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE VACANCY AT THE U.S. SUPREME COURT.

IT GIVES BIDEN A NEW LEASE ON LIFE.

>> WELL, ABSOLUTELY.

EXCEPT WASHINGTON THIS WEEK IS ACTUALLY REELING FROM THE NEWS THAT SENATOR BEN RAY LUJAN, DEMOCRAT OF NEW MEXICO, UNDERWENT EMERGENCY SURGERY FOR STROKE IN THE CEREBELLUM.

UNTIL HE RECOVERS, WHICH HOPEFULLY WILL BE A FULL RECOVERY, REPUBLICANS WILL EFFECTIVELY CONTROL THE SENATE.

SO THIS MEANS THAT BIDEN WILL HAVE TO NOMINATE A JUSTICE WHO CAN ACTUALLY WIN SOME REPUBLICAN SUPPORT.

>> WHO ARE THE TOP CONTENDERS?

>> WELL YOU CAN SKIP MOST OF THE SPECULATION, THERE ARE REALLY 2 TOP CONTENDERS, A BLACK FEMALE, WASHINGTON LEGAL INSIDER, DC CIRCUIT COURT OF APPEALS JUDGE KETANJI BROWN JACKSON.

SHE'S A HARVARD LAW GRAD WHO'S BEEN THROUGH 3 SENATE CONFIRMATIONS ALREADY IN HER HER CAREER IN WASHINGTON.

THE OUTSIDER IS FEDERAL JUDGE JAY MICHELLE CHILDS OF SOUTH CAROLINA.

SHE IS A GRADUATE OF USC AND DUKE LAW SCHOOLS, SHE SUPPORTED BY JAMES CLYBURN, A VERY POWERFUL MEMBER OF THE U.S. HOUSE.

>> SOME SAY HE GOT BIDEN IN.

>> WELL, KEY HERE - ABSOLUTELY KEY TO BIDEN SURVIVING IN THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY AND BEING ABLE TO MOVE AND BECOME PRESIDENT.

ALSO SHE IS SUPPORTED BY SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM, AND SHE IS NOT FROM HARVARD OR YALE.

>> AND SENATOR TIM SCOTT.

BUT LET ME ASK YOU, MITCH, SHOULD WE BE PICKING PEOPLE BY GENDER AND ETHNICITY OR JUST THE BEST PERSON AVAILABLE?

>> WELL, THIS IS CERTAINLY - >> CRITICS ARE ASKING THAT.

>> YEAH, IT HAS SPARKED QUITE A BIT OF DEBATE.

ILYA SHAPIRO WHO RECENTLY MOVED TO GEORGETOWN LAW HAD A TWEET BASICALLY SAYING, HEY SHOULD WE SELECT A PERSON FOR THIS JOB BECAUSE OF THEIR MERITS OR BECAUSE THEY TICK SOME BOXES, BEING A BLACK WOMAN, CAUGHT A FIRESTORM OF CRITICISM.

AND SO THAT REALLY IS THE DEBATE RIGHT NOW.

WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT THE BEST PERSON GETS THE JOB OF SERVING ON THE SUPREME COURT.

BUT IN MANY AREAS OF OUR LIFE, IT HAS NOW COME DOWN TO FEELING A PARTICULAR QUOTA.

>> YOU KNOW REAGAN PICKED SANDRA DAY O'CONNOR, AND HE HAD PLEDGED THAT DURING THE CAMPAIGN.

>> AND PRESIDENT TRUMP PLEDGED TO NOMINATE A WOMAN AFTER THE DEATH OF RUTH BADER GINSBURG.

SO WE DIDN'T HAVE THESE QUESTIONS THEN EITHER, AND THAT WAS IN OUR SHORT TERM MEMORY.

I THINK FOR BIDEN THIS IS KIND OF INTERESTING BECAUSE THIS IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE DEMOCRATS HAVE WANTED TO SEE, THAT'S CLEARLY WHY JUSTICE BREYER FELT THE PRESSURE AND IS STEPPING DOWN NOW, BEFORE THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS.

BUT NOW YOU'RE GOING TO SEE AGAIN THE DIVIDES BETWEEN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY WINGS, THE MORE PROGRESSIVE - >> THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION, THAT'S A GOOD - THAT'S A GOOD COMMENT.

CAN HE RESHAPED THE LIBERAL WING OF THE SUPREME COURT ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE?

>> WELL FOR INSTANCE, THIS MICHELLE CHILDS WHO FROM SOUTH CAROLINA.

YOU KNOW I WAS READING THAT SHE IN HER FORMER WORK YOU KNOW DID A LOT OF WORK WITH CORPORATIONS.

AND LABOR UNIONS DON'T NECESSARILY LIKE HER AS A PICK.

>> BUT MY QUESTION IS, DOES IT MAKE IT MORE PROGRESSIVE?

>> I DON'T THINK SO, AND JONAH RAISES A GOOD POINT.

IN CHILD'S BACKGROUND, SHE'S DEFENDED COMPANIES AGAINST EMPLOYEES AND THAT'S PART OF THE KNOCK ON HER, A BUSINESS DISPOSITION.

SO PERHAPS SHE DOES BRING A MORE PRAGMATIC ORIENTATION AROUND THE ECONOMIC AND BUSINESS ISSUES.

BUT YOU KNOW THE SUPREME COURT JUSTICE NOMINATION AND CONFIRMATION IS A KIND OF THING, IT'S A VERY SPECIFIC THING.

THERE'S A LOT OF THE EFFORT THAT GOES INTO VET THEM, BUT INEVITABLY SOMETHING COMES UP.

>> DOES THIS HELP MOBILIZE BIDEN'S BASE GOING INTO TO THE TO THE MIDTERMS JOE?

>> YOU KNOW, IN THE WORDS OF THE ZEN MASTER, WE'LL SEE.

>> WHICH BASE?

THAT'S THE QUESTION AGAIN, WHICH BASE WILL IT ACTIVATE?

>> FINAL THOUGHTS, QUICKLY.

>> AND ALSO THE IMPORTANT THING TO NOTE IS WITH THESE 2 VERY DIFFERENT CANDIDATES WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT, NOT EVERY BLACK WOMAN IS GOING TO VOTE THE SAME WAY ON DIFFERENT CASES.

THEY'RE NOT MONOLITHIC.

THAT'S NOT TRUE OF ANY GROUP THAT YOU SEPARATE BY RACE OR GENDER OR ETHNICITY.

>> WE'VE GOT TO MOVE ON, CHANGE TOPICS.

I WANT TO TALK TO YOU JONAH ABOUT ONLINE GAMBLING IN NORTH CAROLINA.

>> SO TO ME, ONLINE GAMBLING IS A LOT LIKE SPEEDING, WE KNOW IT HAPPENS EVERYWHERE.

SO DO POLICE.

BUT YOU CAN'T STOP IT UNLESS POLICE ARE LITERALLY GOING TO BE EVERYWHERE.

AND IN NORTH CAROLINA AND IN DOZENS OF OTHER STATES WHERE ONLINE GAMBLING IS ILLEGAL, IT HAPPENS.

THE QUESTION IS IF YOU DO MAKE IT LEGAL, IS THERE A WAY, IS THERE A MECHANISM TO THEN GENERATE REVENUE SO THAT IT CAN HELP THE STATE.

NORTH CAROLINA WAS AMONG THE LAST STATES IN THE EAST COAST TO BRING IN A LOTTERY.

A FASCINATING STORY AS I UNDERSTAND.

RIGHT NOW YOU THERE IS SPORTS BETTING - >> BEFORE YOUR TIME.

>> I KNOW.

RIGHT NOW THERE IS SPORTS BETTING, BUT YOU HAVE TO GO PHYSICALLY TO MAKE THOSE BETS AT HARRAH'S WHICH IS IN THE CHEROKEE, THE WESTERN PART OF THE STATE.

SO THE QUESTION IS NOW, YOU HAVE 2 SENATORS JIM PERRY AND PAUL LOW PUTTING TOGETHER THIS BILL, SENATE BILL 6.88.

AND YES, IT CREATES A MECHANISM FOR WHICH THERE COULD BE ONLINE GAMBLING REGULATED.

BUT THERE ARE A NUMBER OF PROBLEMS WITH THIS.

FIRST OF ALL WILL IT RAISE ENOUGH MONEY TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE, AND THAT'S THE TRADEOFF.

AND ALSO THERE'S OPPONENTS SAYING NORTH CAROLINA HAS A RICH SPORTS TRADITION AND THAT INCLUDES COLLEGIATE SPORTS.

SO WILL UNC, WILL DUKE, WILL THESE COLLEGE ATHLETES, COULD THERE BE SOME SORT OF VICE BY BEING IN THE SHADOW OF ONLINE SPORTS GAMBLING.

>> YOU KNOW, MITCH, CRITICS SAY THAT IT'S A TAX ON THE POOR.

IS IT?

>> WELL, THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY AMONG THE PEOPLE WHO ARE THE BIGGEST OPPONENTS, ARE THE FOLKS ON THE LEFT-MOST EDGE OF THE DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS, THE FOLKS WHO DON'T LIKE POLICIES THAT TARGET PEOPLE LIKE THE LOTTERY.

THEY WERE INITIALLY OPPONENTS OF THE LOTTERY.

TO ME THE INTERESTING THING HERE IS TO SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING IN OTHER STATES.

WE'VE GOT A VIRGINIA WEST VIRGINIA, TENNESSEE ALL CLOSE TO US THAT HAVE THIS ONLINE GAMBLING.

WE'VE GOT OUR PROFESSIONAL TEAMS, JONAH MENTIONED THE COLLEGE TEAMS.

THE PROFESSIONAL TEAMS IN NORTH CAROLINA ARE ALL FOR IT.

WE HAVE AMONG THE SUPPORTERS PEOPLE WHO ARE POWERFUL INCLUDING ON THE HOUSE SIDE JASON SAINE.

SO IT LOOKS LIKE THAT TRAIN IS MOVING IN THAT DIRECTION, WHATEVER PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT NOW.

>> WELL THE INTERESTING THING IS AND I REMEMBER VERY FAMOUSLY REPRESENTIVE SKIP STAM, WHEN THE LOTTERY WAS BEING DEBATED, SAID THE LOTTERY WAS REALLY JUST A TAX ON PEOPLE THAT ARE BAD AT MATH.

AND SO IN MANY WAYS, GAMBLING IS A TAX ON PEOPLE WHO HAVE SOME EXPECTATION THAT THEY CAN SPEND A LITTLE BIT OF MONEY AND MAKE A LOT OF MONEY.

BUT THE WAY GAMBLING WORKS IS NOT MANY PEOPLE MAKE A LOT OF MONEY ON GAMBLING.

IT COUNTS ON A LOT OF PEOPLE - >> COUNT ON THE REVENUE TO THE POINT OF DIMISHING RETURNS?

>> I WOULD HAVE TO SAY THIS.

I DON'T THINK GAMBLING IS A FAD.

I THINK IT'S HERE TO STAY.

WHETHER OR NOT YOU CAN CREATE A STRUCTURE FOR THE REVENUE COLLECTION THAT'S CONSISTENT I DON'T KNOW.

BUT IT'S NOT THE SAME AS HAVING A SOLID TAXATION POLICY THAT GENERATES THE REVENUE NECESSARY FOR THE FUNCTIONS OF GOVERNMENT.

AND IT'S AN EASIER THING TO SAY, WE'RE NOT GOING TO RAISE YOUR TAXES, WE'RE GOING TO GENERATE REVENUE ON ALL OF THESE OTHER ACTIVITIES.

I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S THE BEST POSSIBLE POLICY, BUT I SUSPECT IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S INEVITABLY GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> NELSON?

>> WELL IN 2005, I WAS THERE AND VOTED AGAINST THE LOTTERY.

SO I'M NOT A FAN.

BUT THE CONVERSATION REALLY HAS CHANGED OVER THE YEARS.

BACK THEN WE WERE WORKING AT WAYS TO ELIMINATE COMPUTER GAMING, SWEEPSTAKES PARLORS, BUT COMPANIES ALWAYS FOUND WAYS TO GET AROUND THE LAWS WE WROTE.

NOW THE MOMENTUM REALLY IS TRULY BEHIND THE SIDE OF LEGALIZATION.

THE ARGUMENTS ARE THE SAME, IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN ANYWAY.

LET'S MAKE IT LEGAL, SO WE CAN REGULATE IT AND WE CAN GET THE REVENUE.

AND I DO THINK, GOING BACK TO JONAH'S OBSERVATION, A REAL QUESTION WITH THIS BILL, IF IT DOES PASS, AND IT'S PENDING IN THE HOUSE NOW, IS THE VERY LOW RATE OF FEES AND THE LOW TAX RATE THAT'S IN THE BILL AS COMPARED TO OTHER STATES.

I THINK NEW JERSEY WAS AT 51% OF THE REVENUES THEY TAX.

VIRGINIA'S AT 15%.

THIS BILL SAYS ONLY 8%.

SO I THINK IF THEY GET READY TO DO IT, YOU'RE GOING TO START SEEING SOME OF THOSE NUMBERS COME UP TO MAKE IT MORE SUBSTANTIAL FOR THE STATE.

>> TO WRAP THIS UP IN ABOUT 30 SECONDS, MY FRIEND.

>> NOT TO OPEN UP ANOTHER CAN OF CAROLINA ALE HERE.

BUT IT'S -- THAT IT'S KIND OF ONE OF THOSE THINGS WITH LIKE WITH MEDICAL MARIJUANA AND OTHER STATES - I MEAN THAT CLEARLY THE MOMENTUM IS GOING THERE.

THE QUESTION IS IS NORTH CAROLINA AND LAWMAKERS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE THE DECISION.

DO THEY WANT TO GET IN ON IT WHILE THEY CAN, OR WATCH AS OTHER STATES REAP THE BENEFITS WHILE NORTH CAROLINA SITS IT OUT KNOWING THAT IT'S STILL GOING TO HAPPEN ANYWAY.

>> OKAY, WE'VE GOT TO MOVE.

THE FUNDRAISING NUMBERS ARE IN FOR THE U.S. SENATE CANDIDATES.

WHO ARE THE WINNERS AND LOSERS?

>> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALWAYS INTERESTING.

MONEY GETS A LOT OF ATTENTION EARLY ON IN CAMPAIGNS BECAUSE IT'S CONSIDERED TO BE SOMETHING OF A BAROMETER IN TERMS OF HOW WELL THE CANDIDATES ARE DOING.

IT IS AN INDICATION.

OBVIOUSLY, MONEY MATTERS SOMETHING IN POLITICS.

IT DOESN'T MATTER EXCLUSIVELY.

BUT THE PART OF A CAMPAIGN THAT IT MATTERS ABOUT, MATTERS A LOT.

AND SO WE SAW TED BUDD WINNING IN TERMS OF THE NUMBER OF DOLLARS BROUGHT IN IN THE LAST CYCLE OF CAMPAIGN FINANCE REPORTS THAT ARE REQUIRED BY THE FEDERAL ELECTIONS COMMISSION.

PAT MCRORY COMING IN SECOND.

BUDD WITH ALMOST A MILLION DOLLARS RAISED.

FOR MCCRORY ABOUT 3 QUARTERS OF A MILLION.

THEIR CASH ON HAND NUMBERS ARE ABOUT THE SAME.

BUT AT 2.2 MILLION, AND MCCRORY AT 1.9 MILLION.

MARJORY EASTMAN KIND OF A DARK HORSE CANDIDATE NOT POLLING AT EVEN - WELL, IT'S IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S A BROAD BASE OF OF SMALL-DOLLAR CONTRIBUTORS, SHE'S AN ACTIVIST AND HAS BEEN ENGAGED IN A LOT OF THINGS.

SHE BROUGHT IN A LITTLE UNDER $500,000 BUT ONLY HAS ABOUT $280,000 CASH ON HAND.

SO FROM A BURN RATE STANDPOINT, I DON'T KNOW THAT SHE CAN DO MUCH WITH THAT LITTLE BIT OF MONEY.

BUT THE REAL WINNER IN THIS IS JERRY BEASLEY, THE DEMOCRAT WHO REALLY HAS NO OPPONENT.

SHE BROUGHT IN OVER 2 MILLION DOLLARS AND HAS NEARLY 3 MILLION DOLLARS CASH ON HAND BECAUSE SHE DOESN'T FACE A REAL DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY CHALLENGE CAN DEPLOY ALL THOSE RESOURCES FOR THE FALL.

>> NELSON WAS THIS LOW HANGING FRUIT, NOW GETS TOUGHER TO RAISE MONEY?

>> I THINK THAT'S TRUE.

AND COURSE IS JOEL GREY WOULD ONCE SING, MONEY MAKES THE WORLD AROUND.

BUT GOING INTO THIS CYCLE, NORTH CAROLINA - >> ...USED TO SAY, YOUR LOVE GIVES ME SUCH A THRILL, BUT YOUR LOVE DON'T PAY THE BILLS.

>> ANYWAY, GOING INTO THIS CYCLE THE ASSUMPTION WAS THAT NORTH CAROLINA WOULD BE A TOP TIER TARGET OF THE DEMOCRATS.

ACTUALLY THAT IS CHANGING.

DEMOCRATS ARE NOW GOING TO BE ON THE DEFENSIVE.

THEY'RE GOING TO WORK TO PROTECT INCUMBENTS IN ARIZONA, NEVADA, GEORGIA, NEW HAMPSHIRE.

THEIR TOP PICKUP TARGET IS PROBABLY GOING TO FOCUS IN ON PENNSYLVANIA.

SO NORTH CAROLINA IS GOING TO MOVE TO NUMBER 2 ON THE STATUS, STILL BE A LOT OF MONEY BUT PROBABLY NOT AS MUCH.

I DON'T THINK THE DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO MAKE THE MISTAKE THEY MADE IN 2020 WHEN THEY INVESTED HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN PLACES LIKE SOUTH CAROLINA AND KENTUCKY.

AND THEY DIDN'T PROTECT THEIR HOME TURF.

>> YOU KNOW THESE KIND OF ARE LOW BALL NUMBERS COMPARED TO PAST SENATE CAMPAIGNS.

WHAT ROLE DO YOU THINK THE SUPER PACS WILL PLAY?

>> THAT WAS ONE OF THE POINTS THAT I WAS GOING TO MAKE IS THAT THESE NUMBERS ARE IMPORTANT, BUT THEY PROBABLY AREN'T AS IMPORTANT AS ALL THE OUTSIDE MONEY THAT'S GOING TO COME IN.

THAT'S GOING TO BE A MAJOR FACTOR.

PLUS WE ALSO HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND, LEAST ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, I THINK THERE'S PROBABLY SOME MONEY STILL SITTING BACK WAITING TO SEE WHO WINS.

WE KNOW IT'S GOING TO BE A VERY TOUGH FOUGHT BATTLE BETWEEN FORMER GOVERNOR PAT MCCRORY AND THE CONGRESSMAN TED BUDD WITH MARK WALKER STILL HANGING OUT THERE.

THERE'S SOME REPUBLICAN MONEY TO SEND, I'LL WAIT TO SEE WHO WINS THE PRIMARY, THEN THROW MY MONEY.

>> HOW BIG DOES TRUMP BLOOM IN THE GOP PRIMARY?

>> THAT'S GOING TO BE A QUESTION THAT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO ASK.

AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SEE WHAT KIND OF ROLE THE PRESIDENT IS ALSO GOING TO PLAY IN THIS RACE.

>> WILL HE REALLY COME IN?

>> WILL HE VISIT, ENDORSE?

LET'S SAY BUDD LOSES.

WILL HE ENDORSE WHOEVER ELSE WINS THE RACE?

TO ME THE ISSUE WITH WITH MONEY IS, I MEAN, LET'S GO TALK TO HILLARY CLINTON HOW MONEY WORKS OUT IN AN ELECTION.

WHO REMEMBERS AMY MCGRATH IN KENTUCKY OR JAIME HARRISON IN SOUTH CAROLINA?

ALL THESE FOLKS HAD MONEY.

THERE WAS NO WAY ALL THAT MONEY WAS GOING TO TAKE DOWN MITCH MCCONNELL AND LINDSEY GRAHAM RESPECTIVELY.

>> THAT'S A GREAT POINT.

>> MESSAGE MATTERS, AND MONEY DOESN'T NECESSARILY BUY VOTES.

IT MIGHT BUY VISIBILITY.

BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF INTANGIBLE THINGS THAT CAN HAPPEN.

AND I MEAN RIGHT NOW, WE'RE JUST - YES, IT'S IMPORTANT, PRESEASON GAMES ARE IMPORTANT WHEN EVALUATING TALENT >> BUT YOU LOVE IT.

OKAY, WE'VE GOT TO MOVE ON.

LET'S GO TO THE MOST UNDERREPORTED STORY OF THE WEEK.

MITCH?

>> CATHERINE TRUITT IS OUR ELECTED STATE SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION.

AND THIS WEEK SHE MENTIONED THAT SHE'S ASKING THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES FOR GOAL POSTS ABOUT THE MASKING OF STUDENTS IN SCHOOLS.

THERE'S A REASON FOR THIS, BECAUSE WE HAVE A VARIATION IN TERMS OF MASK MANDATES IN COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE STATE.

BUT MOST SCHOOL DISTRICTS ARE STILL RELYING ON THE GUIDANCE THAT COMES FROM DHHS.

SO CATHERINE TRUITT IS SAYING THAT SHE WANTS TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO BE THE PLACE THAT WE REACH WHERE YOU CAN STOP MANDATING MASKS FOR STUDENTS?

AND THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT SHE'S TALKING A LOT ABOUT.

ALSO ABOUT SOME OF THE LEARNING LOSS THAT'S COME ABOUT, BECAUSE OF STUDENTS WHO WERE NOT IN SCHOOL FOR SUCH A LONG TIME.

SO I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE A VERY INTERESTING THING TO SEE.

WHEN IS THE DHHS GOING TO SAY THAT, ALL RIGHT, THIS IS THE POINT WHICH MASKING CAN END FOR STUDENTS IN SCHOOLS.

>> JONAH?

>> IN MY FAMILY FOR MY 4 YEAR OLD, THAT TIME WAS LONG AGO!

SHE'S GOTTA LOSE THAT MASK.

BUT ON THAT SAME LINE OTHER UNDERREPORTED STORY IS THAT IT'S NOT JUST AMERICA THAT STUDYING THE EFFECTS OF THESE THINGS, BUT IN GREAT BRITAIN WHICH DID A LOT OF SIMILAR THINGS IN TERMS OF MASKING IN SCHOOL, SHUTDOWNS, DIFFERENT RESTRICTIONS.

THEY'RE NOW STUDYING THE EFFECTS ON ESPECIALLY YOUNGER CHILDREN AND ALREADY THEY'RE FINDING THAT, ESPECIALLY LOOKING AT THE KINDERGARTEN AGE, CHILDREN NOW.

A HEALTHY MAJORITY, I MEAN WE'RE TALKING MORE THAN 70% OF KIDS ARE NOT NEAR THAT THE LEVEL OF LEARNING THAT KINDERGARTNERS AT THAT AGE GROUP WAS EXPERIENCING A COUPLE YEARS AGO BEFORE THE PANDEMIC.

THIS IS GOING TO BE WHEN WE TALK ABOUT COVID-19 AND THE PANDEMIC THE STORY IS NOT GOING TO END THIS YEAR NEXT YEAR 5 YEARS 10 YEARS.

THIS IS GOING TO BE A GENERATIONAL STORY THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO FOLLOW AND I WORRY ABOUT THE REPERCUSSIONS >> GREAT CATCH.

>> ONE OF THE UNFORTUNATE THINGS AND COVID-19 WERE SOME USUAL FUNCTIONS OF GOVERNMENT GOT DELAYED.

AND I HAD A CONVERSATION THIS WEEK WITH A FELLOW NAMED JUDD PATTERSON IN JOHNSTON COUNTY.

HIS SON REYNOLDS PASSED AWAY IN AUGUST OF LAST YEAR.

AND THE AUTOPSY ON HIS SON HAS YET TO BE COMPLETED.

THERE'S NO REASON TO SUSPECT FOUL PLAY, BUT THE PATTERSON FAMILY IS NOT ABLE TO GET THEIR SON'S PERSONAL EFFECTS FROM THE POLICE WHO SAY THEY HAVE TO SEE THE TOXICOLOGY REPORT.

NORMALLY THE MEDICAL EXAMINER IN NORTH CAROLINA DOES ABOUT 12,000 AUTOPSIES IN THE COURSE OF THE YEAR.

THEY ARE ABOUT 3 OR 4,000 BEHIND.

THE FAMILY STILL HAS NOT HEARD WHEN IT WILL BE COMPLETE.

IT'S BEEN MORE THAN 6 MONTHS.

BUT A NUMBER OF FAMILIES ARE IN A SIMILAR SITUATION WHERE THEY CAN'T FILE LIFE INSURANCE CLAIMS AND OTHER THINGS BECAUSE OF THIS BACKLOG.

THE MEDICAL EXAMINER IS WORKING VERY HARD.

>> WHAT'S THE EXPLANATION?

>> WELL LIKE MANY FUNCTIONS OF GOVERNMENT, THEY HAD PEOPLE THAT HAD COVID, SO THEY WEREN'T ABLE TO COME AND WORK IN THE MEDICAL EXAMINER'S OFFICE.

IT'S VERY SPECIFIC WORK.

SO YOU CAN'T JUST HAVE SOMEONE COME IN AND PERFORM AN AUTOPSY, IT'S NOT REALLY - THE PATTERSON FAMILY IS NOT ANGRY OR FRUSTRATED, IT'S JUST ONE OF THOSE THINGS WE'VE HAD TO LEARN.

NOW IF WE EVER HAVE A SITUATION LIKE THIS IT'S A FUNCTION OF GOVERNMENT THAT NEEDS TO BE CONTINUED, DESPITE THE PANDEMIC.

>> NELSON?

>> VICE WEEK RIGHT?

SO THIS WEEK, MISSISSIPPI BECAME THE 38TH STATE TOO LEGALIZE MEDICAL MARIJUANA.

AT SAME TIME A STUDY WAS RELEASED ON THE HEALTH RISK OF RECREATIONAL CANNABIS.

RESEARCHERS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MONTREAL SHOW THAT CANNABIS INTOXICATION CAN HAVE LONG LASTING EFFECTS, BEYOND JUST YOU KNOW GETTING HIGH.

AND THAT IS AFFECTING BRAIN FUNCTION, IMPACTING MEMORY, THE ABILITY TO FOCUS, PROCESSING INFORMATION SIMPLE MOTOR SKILLS, ESPECIALLY FOR TEENS AND YOUNG PEOPLE.

IN SCOTLAND ADMISSIONS TO PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITALS AMONG CANNABIS USERS HAVE RISEN 74% SINCE THEY INTRODUCED DECRIMINALIZATION 6 YEARS AGO.

AND A HARVARD STUDY OF 246 PSYCHOTIC PATIENTS AGES 16 TO 35 FOUND THAT 78% OF THOSE HAD USED CANNABIS.

SO FAR 18 STATES HAVE LEGALIZED RECREATIONAL USE OF MARIJUANA.

AND I THINK THE CONCERN IS PARTICULARLY FOR YOUNG PEOPLE WE HAVE NOT MADE THEM AWARE OF THE DANGERS.

>> GOOD CATCH, GOOD CATCH.

>> EVER HEAR OF BUZZ KILL?!

>> LIGHTNING ROUND.

WHO'S UP AND WHO'S DOWN THIS WEEK.

MITCH?

>> MY WHO'S UP, LAWYERS WORKING ON REDISTRICTING.

ANYONE WHO WATCH THE ORAL ARGUMENTS BEFORE THE SUPREME COURT SAW 5 DIFFERENT ATTORNEYS TALKING TO THE JUSTICES.

THAT'S JUST THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG.

IF YOU LOOK AT ALL THE COURT FILINGS THE NUMBER OF LAWYERS WORKING ON THIS CASE, MORE THAN 70.

AND ABOUT 3 OUT OF 4 OF THEM ARE WORKING AGAINST NORTH CAROLINA'S ELECTION MAPS.

MY WHOSE DOWN, PAUL COE, THE NAME OF AN ASSISTANT SUPERINTENDENT IN ONE OF THE STATE'S LARGEST SCHOOL SYSTEMS WAKE COUNTY SCHOOLS.

THERE'S A 26 SECOND CLIP OF HIM TALKING ABOUT THE MASKING OF KIDS AS YOUNG AS 2 YEARS OLD.

IN HIS DEFENSE WAKE COUNTY SCHOOL SYSTEM SAYS THAT'S A SMALL CLIP FROM A MUCH LARGER PRESENTATION, BUT AGAINST HIM SOMEONE HAS LATCHED ON TO THIS AND MADE A SOCIAL MEDIA CAMPAIGN ABOUT MASKING OF 2 YEAR-OLDS.

>> JONAH?

>> SO WHAT'S UP - THIS IS IRONIC, BECAUSE CLEARLY WHOOPI GOLDBERG IS NOT UP.

BUT BECAUSE OF HER I THANK HER FOR BRINGING THE CONVERSATION ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST.

AND HOLOCAUST EDUCATION IS UP BECAUSE I THINK THERE'S - >> SHE'S BEEN SUSPENDED.

>> FOR 2 WEEKS FOR SAYING THE HOLOCAUST WAS NOT ABOUT RACE.

BUT THE TIMING WAS IMPECCABLE.

AND LOOK AT WHAT'S HAPPENED WITH "MAUS" THE BANNING OF THIS A LONG TIME EFFECTIVE BOOK ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST.

BUT ALSO BECAUSE OF - BECAUSE OF NORTH CAROLINA'S LAW WHICH NOW MANDATES HOLOCAUST EDUCATION.

SO THAT IS NOW UP.

DOWN IS IS SPOTIFY.

IT'S - THIS IS A MEDIUM WHERE YOU CAN LISTEN TO PODCASTS AND THINGS.

AND IT'S A SLIPPERY SLOPE WHEN TRYING TO POLICE WHAT'S BEING SAID, AND THE KIND OF GUEST YOU CAN HAVE.

>> YEAH WHO'S UP?

THE POSSIBILITY OF A DIGITAL GREENBACK.

THE FEDERAL RESERVE IS EVALUATING WHETHER OR NOT U.S.

BACKED CRYPTO CURRENCY MIGHT BE ON THE HORIZON FOR US.

DESPITE THE FACT THAT CRYPTO HASN'T DONE WELL OF LATE, A LOT OF GOVERNMENTS AROUND THE WORLD ARE LOOKING IF THEY SHOULD GET INTO THIS NEW FORM OF CURRENCY.

WHOSE DOWN?

AN ASSESSMENT OF THE PAYCHECK PROTECTION PROGRAM BY THE NATIONAL BUREAU OF ECONOMIC RESEARCH.

10 ECONOMISTS SAYING THEIR ESTIMATES ARE THAT ONLY ABOUT A QUARTER TO A 3RD OF THE MONEY ACTUALLY WENT TO WORKERS.

THE VAST MAJORITY OF PPP GRANT FUNDS WENT TO SHAREHOLDERS AND OWNERS OF COMPANIES.

>> UP, HEALTH CARE IN CALIFORNIA.

AB 1400 THE SINGLE PAYER HEALTH CARE BILL IN CALIFORNIA FAILED TO GET A VOTE BY MONDAY'S DEADLINE IN THE CALIFORNIA ASSEMBLY.

THE ESTIMATED COST OF MORE THAN 400 BILLION DOLLARS AND HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS IN NEW TAXES WAS TOO EXPENSIVE EVEN FOR CALIFORNIA.

PROGRESSIVES - >> THAT'S EXPENSIVE!

>> WHO'S DOWN?

THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT FINISHED REMOVING ALL OF HONG KONG'S MEMORIALS COMMEMORATING THE 1989 TIANANMEN SQUARE MASSACRE AND THE PRO DEMOCRACY MOVEMENT, INCLUDING THE VERY FAMOUS PILLAR OF SHAME.

DON'T EXPECT TO HEAR ABOUT ANY OF THIS DURING THE COVERAGE OF THE OLYMPICS, >> MITCH, HEADLINE NEXT WEEK?

>> SUPREME COURT REDISTRICTING RULING SETS OFF SCRAMBLE OVER NEW MAPS.

>> SO WE'LL GET THAT RULING NEXT WEEK YOU THINK?

>> IT WILL COME SOONER RATHER THAN LATER.

>> JONAH?

>> PROBABLY A FRIDAY AT 5 O'CLOCK.

I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SEE CONTROVERSY WAS AND SOME TENSIONS IN THE OLYMPICS.

>> I DO TOO.

HEADLINE NEXT WEEK?

>> WITH ANNOUNCED RETIREMENT, SAY IT WITH ME, TOM BRADY FOR PRESIDENT IN 2024!

>> YOU'D LIKE THAT CONTRACT?

>> I WANT TO SEE HIM IN IOWA AND NEW HAMPSHIRE.

>> HEADLINE QUICKLY?

>> OLYMPIC ADVERTISING AND VIEWERSHIP DOWN.

>> OK. GREAT JOB, GENTS.

THAT'S IT FOR US, THANKS FOR WATCHING.

HOPE TO SEE YOU NEXT WEEK ON FRONT ROW.

HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

♪ - [NARRATOR] MAJOR FUNDING FOR FRONT ROW IS PROVIDED BY ROBERT L LUDDY.

ADDITIONAL FUNDING PROVIDED BY PATRICIA AND KOO YUEN THROUGH THE YUEN FOUNDATION, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

AND BY.

FUNDING FOR THE LIGHTNING ROUND PROVIDED BY BODDIE-NOELL FOUNDATION, NC REALTORS, MARY LOUISE AND JOHN BURRESS, RIFENBERG CONSTRUCTION AND HELEN LAUGHERY.

A COMPLETE LIST OF FUNDERS CAN BE FOUND AT PBSNC.ORG/FRONTROW.

[UPBEAT MUSIC] ♪