>> Braude: TONIGHT ON TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON": ARE WE LOSING THE THE RACE TO VACCINATE FASTER THAN THE CORONAVIRUS CAN MUTATE?

AND WHAT IF WE DO?

HARVARD EPIDEMIOLOGIST WILLIAM HANAGE JOINS ME.

PLUS, A NEW REPORT FINDS LESS THAN HALF OF 1% OF PRIME CONTRACTS AWARDED BY THE CITY OF BOSTON HAVE GONE TO BLACK-OWNED BUSINESSES DURING THE WALSH ADMINISTRATION.

I'LL TALK TO THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE BLACK ECONOMIC COUNCIL OF MASSACHUSETTS.

AND, FINALLY, IN HONOR OF BLACK HISTORY MONTH, GBH'S "AMERICAN EXPERIENCE" IS TELLING A STORY THAT'S BEEN LEFT OUT OF MOST HISTORY BOOKS ABOUT A NEIGHBORHOOD NICKNAMED "BLACK WALL STREET" AND THE MASSACRE THAT HAPPENED THERE 100 YEARS AGO.

>>> AS SEVERAL MORE STATES EXPAND VACCINE ELIGIBILITY TO INCLUDE PEOPLE 65 AND OLDER -- INCLUDING NEIGHBORING CONNECTICUT -- GOVERNOR CHARLIE BAKER SAID TODAY HE'S NOT READY TO SKIP AHEAD TO THE NEXT PHASE OF THE STATE'S ROLLOUT JUST YET.

>> I THINK WE'LL MOVE BEYOND WHERE WE ARE NOW WHEN WE FEEL LIKE WE'VE DONE AS MUCH AS WE CAN DO TO GET THE FOLKS WHO ARE PART OF THE COMMUNITIES THAT ARE CURRENTLY ELIGIBLE VACCINATED.

>> Braude: SO FAR THE GOVERNOR SAYS THE STATE HAS VACCINATED LESS THAN HALF OF THE STATE'S 75-PLUS POPULATION.

AND MANY HEALTH CARE WORKERS FROM PHASE ONE ARE STILL IN LINE FOR SECOND DOSES, TOO.

BUT AS THAT PROCESS GOES ON, THE STATE IS STARTING TO OPEN BACK UP.

AND AS OF TODAY, RESTAURANTS, GYMS, AND OTHER BUSINESSES IN MASSACHUSETTS ARE ALLOWED TO OPERATE AT 40% CAPACITY, UP FROM 25%.

THE GOVERNOR CITED THE RECENT DECLINES IN CASES AND HOSPITALIZATIONS.

BUT TODAY THE DIRECTOR OF THE C.D.C.

WARNED AGAINST RELAXING TOO MANY RESTRICTIONS.

>> I'M ASKING EVERYONE TO PLEASE KEEP YOUR GUARD UP.

THE CONTINUED PROLIFERATION OF VARIANTS REMAINS OF GREAT CONCERN AND IS A THREAT THAT COULD REVERSE THE RECENT POSITIVE TRENDS WE ARE SEEING.

>> Braude: NEW RESEARCH FINDS THE MORE CONTAGIOUS U.K.

VARIANT IS SPREADING QUICKLY IN THE U.S., DOUBLING CASES AROUND EVERY 10 DAYS.

AND AS FOR THE SOUTH AFRICA VARIANT, ANOTHER NEW STUDY FOUND THE ASTRAZENECA VACCINE, WHICH HAS NOT YET BEEN APPROVED HERE, HAS ONLY A 10% EFFICACY RATE AT PREVENTING MILD TO MODERATE DISEASE.

SOUTH AFRICA HAS HALTED ITS ROLLOUT OF THE VACCINE AS A RESULT.

AND ASTRAZENECA IS WORKING ON A NEW PRODUCT TARGETING THAT STRAIN, WHICH THEY EXPECT TO COMPLETE SOME TIME THIS FALL.

MODERNA AND PFIZER ARE WORKING ON BOOSTERS FOR THE SOUTH AFRICAN VARIANT AS WELL.

BUT AS THE VIRUS CONTINUES TO MUTATE AND SPREAD, WILL IT BE SOON ENOUGH?

I'M JOINED NOW BY WILLIAM HANAGE, AN ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF EPIDEMIOLOGY AT HARVARD'S CHAN SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH, AND A MEMBER OF THE SCHOOL'S CENTER NOR COMMUNICABLE DISEASE DYNAMICS.

>> BILL HANAGE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING ME.

>> HI, JIM.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Braude: YOUR HEADLINE IN THE "WASHINGTON POST" READ "VIRUS VARIANTS HAVE US BACK WHERE WE WERE A YEAR AGO."

YOU DON'T SUGGEST THAT MEANS HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS MORE DEATHS.

YOU MEAN JUST LIKE A YEAR AGO, WE'RE NOT REALLY SURE HOW SERIOUS THIS MIGHT BE.

IS THAT CORRECT?

>> THAT IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

THE PEOPLE WHO WRITE THE ARTICLES DON'T WRITE THE HEADLINES.

[LAUGHTER] >> A YEAR AGO, WE WERE LOOKING AT REPORTS OF A VIRUS THAT WAS EMERGING FROM CHINA, AND WE DIDN'T KNOW YET EXACTLY HOW SERIOUS IT WAS.

NOW WE'RE IN A VERY SIMILAR SITUATION, WHERE WE'VE GOT AT LEAST THREE SO-CALLED VARIANTS, MAYBE MORE, WHICH ARE BEGINNING TO MAKE THEMSELVES KNOWN OR EMERGING, AND WE'RE LEARNING ABOUT THEM MORE EVERY DAY.

>> Braude: BY THE WAY, I WAS NOT BLAMING YOU FOR THE HEADLINE, TO BE CLEAR.

WHAT DO WE KNOW?

WHAT ARE THE EARLY INDICATORS ABOUT THE VARIANTS?

>> THE EARLY INDICATORS THE ONE WHICH WAS ORIGINALLY DETECTED IN THE U.K., B117, AND I WANT TO GIVE THEM THAT TECHNICAL NAME.

BUT B117 IS CERTAINLY MORE TRANSMISSIBLE THAN THE VIRUSES WE'VE GOTTEN HERE.

ABOUT 50% MORE TRANSMISSIBLE, MAYBE A LITTLE MORE, MAYBE A LITTLE LESS.

IT SEEMS INCREASINGLY EVIDENT IT MAY BE MORE DANGEROUS AS WELL, THAT HAS BEEN FOUND IN 33 STATES I'M AWARE OF SO FAR.

IT IS SPREADING EXTREMELY WIDELY.

I THINK WE CAN REASONABLY EXPECT IT TO BE THE DOMINANT LINEAGE IN MUCH OF THE COUNTRY WITHIN A FEW MONTHS.

>> Braude: WHEN YOU SAY IT IS MORE DEADLY, ISN'T IT MORE DEADLY BY DEFINITION IF IT IS MORE TRANSFERABLE?

>> NO, IT'S ACTUALLY MORE DEADLY PER INFECTION.

EARLY ON WE WERE CONFIDENT THAT IT WASN'T A LOT MORE DANGEROUS, BUT AS TIME HAS GONE ON, WE CAN SEE IT APPEARS TO BE AT LEAST SOMEWHAT MORE DANGEROUS PER INFECTION.

I WANT TO EMPHASIS, AS FAR AS COVID 2 AND COVID-19 IS NOT PARTICULARLY AS DANGEROUS IN YOUNGER AGE GROUPS, BUT, STILL, THIS IS LIKELY TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE AND IT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THE NUMBERS WE SEE GOING FORWARD.

>> Braude: SINCE I DON'T KNOW THE NUMBER OF THE SOUTH AFRICAN VARIANT, YOU'LL EXCUSE ME IF I CALL IT THE SOUTH AFRICA VARIANT, BEYOND THE ASTRAZENECA NOT WORKING HARDLY AT ALL, I READ THAT PRIOR INFECTION DOES NOT PROTECT YOU FROM INFECTIOUS THERE.

THAT SEEMS THOSE TWO PIECES OF NEWS ARE PRETTY TROUBLING, ARE THEY NOT?

>> THEY'RE NOT AS TROUBLING AS YOU MIGHT THINK.

THE NUMBER FOR THAT IS B1151.

I'LL LEAVE THAT THERE BECAUSE I CAN'T KEEP SAYING THAT ALL OF THE TIME.

THE ASTRAZENECA NUMBERS ARE BASED ON VERY, VERY FEW CASES, VERY FEW.

BUT ASTRAZENECA'S TRIALS IN GENERAL HAVE STRUGGLED FROM BEING SPLIT UP IN LOT OF SUB GROUPS.

THE EVIDENCE YOU'RE REFERRING TO, AND YOU WERE SAYING THAT PEOPLE WERE EQUALLY LIKELY TO BE INFECTED IF THEY WERE PREVIOUSLY INFECTED, NEEDS TO ACCOUNT FOR THE FACT IF YOU'VE BEEN INFECTED ALREADY, YOU'RE NOT AROUND THE POPULATION, THEN YOU PROBABLY HAVE OTHER RISK FACTORS.

WE WANT TO WATCH THAT ONE REALLY CLOSELY.

BEFORE WE GET TOO WORRIED ABOUT IT, WE NEED TO GET A LITTLE MORE.

>> Braude: EVEN IF WE SHOULDN'T WORRY TOO MUCH MORE, THE PRIOR INFECTION IS FURTHER REASON WHY SENATOR RAND PAUL SHOULD BE WEARING A MASK WHEN HE IS WITH HIS COLLEAGUES AND OUT IN PUBLIC, RATHER THAN WALKING AROUND WITH THE MACHO, NO-MASK, SENATORIAL FACE?

>> THAT IS CORRECT.

REAL MEN WEAR MASKS.

THAT IS GROSSLY IRRESPONSIBLE.

>> Braude: LIZ CHENEY SAID THAT WITH A PHOT PHOTOGRAPH OF HER FATHER DICK CHENEY, LONG BEFORE SHE GOT IN TROUBLE WITH HER FELLOW REPUBLICANS.

I READ YOU SAY SOMEWHERE THAT OUR SURVEILLANCE PROGRAM FOR VARIANTS IN THE U.S. IS WAY BEHIND WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE U.K.

I ASSUME THAT IS BECAUSE OF UNDERFUNDING, LIKE SO MUCH OF PUBLIC HEALTH.

IF I'M WRONG, LET ME KNOW WHAT THE REASON IS.

WHAT'S THE CONSEQUENCE OF US PEEG BEING SO FAR BEHIND PLACES LIKE THE U.K.?

>> THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

UNDERFUNDING PLAYS A ROLE, AND THE UNITED STATES HAS A FRAGMENTED SYSTEM.

IN THE U.K., YOU CAN HAVE PEOPLE DOING SINGLE, CENTRALIZED TASKS, AND THEY'LL SEND IT OFF IN SEQUENCE.

HERE, THE TESTING IS DONE BY PRIVATE COMPANIES, AND YOU HAVE TO PERSUADE THEM TO SHARE THE R.N.A.

WHAT THE CONSEQUENCES ARE -- THERE ARE LARGE PARTS OF THE COUNTRY WHERE WE'RE PRETTY MUCH FLYING BLIND IN TERMS OF FINDING WHICH LIN LINEAGES ARE CIRCULATING.

AND WE HAVE HAD STUDIES THAT COMBINE EPIDEMIOLOGICAL INFORMATION WITH THE MORE FANCY POPULATION GENOMES THAT ARE DETECTING INCREASED SPREAD, AND THEY'VE BEEN ABLE TO PUT THEM TOGETHER.

THAT WOULD BE QUITE DIFFICULT HERE, AT LEAST FOR MUCH OF THE COUNTRY.

AND WHERE IT APPEARS THAT HAS BEEN DONE, IT IS SHOWING THAT THE B117 IS INCREASING LIKE IT DID ELSEWHERE.

>> Braude: I WANT TO PLAY A LITTLE BIT OF WHAT DR. FAUCI HAD TO SAY ABOUT THE VARIANTS.

HERE HE IS.

>> Doctor: THE TWO THINGS THAT WE CAN DO IS (A) MAKE SURE WE ADHERE TO THE PUBLIC HEALTH MEASURES.

(B) GET AS MANY PEOPLE VACCINATED AS QUICKLY AS WE POSSIBLY CAN.

THAT'S THE BEST DEFENSE AGAINST THE EVOLUTION OF VARIANTS.

>> Braude: SO UNTIL WE CAN ANSWER THE QUESTIONS THAT YOU RAISE IN YOUR "WASHINGTON POST" OP-ED, IT SEEMS TO ME THIS IS A RACE BETWEEN THE VACCINE AND THE VARIANTS, MUTATIONS.

IF I'M RIGHT ABOUT THAT, SHOULD STATES LIKE MASSACHUSETTS, WHICH I READ OVER THE WEEKEND HAD THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF APPOINTMENTS FOR FIRST DOSES UNGRABBED AT PLACES LIKE GILLETTE -- SHOULD WE BE EXPANDING OUR ELIGIBILITY TO GET THE VACCINE OUT TO AS MANY GROUPS OF PEOPLE AS FAST AS WE POSSIBLY CAN?

>> WELL, I THINK IN GENERAL WE DON'T WANT TO LET A DOSE OF VACCINE GO WASTED.

BUT THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF THOUGHT PUT INTO THE PRIORITIZATION OF EXACTLY WHO IS GETTING VACCINES AND IN WHICH ORDER IN MASSACHUSETTS.

I'VE NOT BEEN A PART OF IT, BUT FROM EVERYBODY I KNOW WHO HAS BEEN A PART OF IT, IT HAS BEEN A REALLY GOOD CONVERSATION AND IT IS GOOD TO BE THINKING ABOUT THINGS IN THAT WAY.

RIGHT NOW WE DO WANT TO BE ACCELERATING VACCINATION AS MUCH AS WE CAN.

I DO THINK WE WANT TO PRIORITIZE PEOPLE WHO ARE VULNERABLE, OR PEOPLE WHO ARE LIKELY TO BE INFECTED THROUGH THEIR WORK.

BUT THEN THE LARGE -- THE QUICKER WE CAN GET A SIGNIFICANT FRACTION VACCINATED, LIKE DR. FAUCI SAID, THAT IS THE BEST DEFENSE WE HAVE AGAINST THESE VARIANTS.

>> Braude: BILL HANAGE, WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Braude: > BOSTON IS A MAJORITY-MINORITY CITY, MEANING PEOPLE OF COLOR MAKE UP MORE THAN HALF THE POPULATION, BUT A FORTHCOMING REPORT COMMISSIONED BY THE MAYOR'S OFFICE FINDS OVER THE PAST FIVE YEARS THE CITY HAS AWARDED JUST 1.2% OF ITS PRIME CONTRACTS TO BLACK- AND HISPANIC-OWNED BUSINESSES, WITH LESS THAN HALF OF 1% TOTAL GOING TO BLACK-OWNED BUSINESSES.

THAT'S ACCORDING TO COPIES OF THE REPORT OBTAINED IN ADVANCE OF ITS RELEASE BY THE GBH NEWS CENTER FOR INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING AND "THE BOSTON GLOBE."

AND THOSE NUMBERS MAY SEEM SHOCKINGLY LOW TO SOME, BUT THE BLACK ECONOMIC COUNCIL OF MASSACHUSETTS ISN'T SURPRISED.

THE STUDY REVEALS WHAT BECMA MEMBERS AND COMMUNITY LEADERS HAVE BEEN SAYING FOR DECADES: THE CITY OF BOSTON DOES NOT VALUE BLACK BUSINESSES OR THE BLACK COMMUNITY.

SAYING IN A STATEMENT: "THE STUDY REVEALS WHAT IT HAS BEEN SAYING FOR DECADES, THE CITY OF BOSTON DOES NOT VALUE BLACK BUSINESSES OR THE BLACK COMMUNITY."

AND COUNCIL'S EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, SEGUN IDOWU, JOINS ME NOW.

>> Braude: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Braude: I THINK THE LAST COMPARABLE REPORT WAS IN MID-2019, AND IF I RECALL, THE NUMBERS WERE SIMILAR, NOT MUCH PROGRESS.

DID THIS FEEL LIKE GROUNDHOG DAY TO YOU?

>> A LITTLE BIT, YES, JIM.

AS WE SAID IN OUR STATEMENT, THESE RESULTS WERE NOT SURPRISING, ALTHOUGH THEY WERE DISTURBING.

THEY WEREN'T SURPRISING BECAUSE WE'VE SEEN THIS BEFORE.

EVEN IF WE DIDN'T SEE THE NUMBERS, THE EXPERIENCES OF OUR MEMBERS REFLECT WHAT IS IN THIS REPORT.

MOST OF THEM, IF ANY, AREN'T GETING GETTING CONTRACTS WITH THE CITY, DESPITE TRYING OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

THE REPORT YOU'RE REFERRING TO HAPPENED BECAUSE OF A HEARING HELD BY PRESIDENT JIM JANEY AND COUNCIL WU, WHO WANTED TO SEE WHAT WE WERE SPENDING IN A YEAR.

AND IT WAS LESS THAN 1% FOR MINORITY AND BLACK-OWNED BUSINESSES.

NOT SURPRISING, BUT UNFORTUNATE WE HAVEN'T MOVED THE NEEDLE OP THIS ON THIS ISSUE.

>> Braude: BEFORE WE TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE REASONS AND SOME OF THE FIXES, THERE IS COMPARISON OF MINORITY AND WOMEN-OWNED BUSINESS CONTRACTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

IN PHILADELPHIA, MY HOME TOWN, 31%.

CHICAGO, 29%.

FROM 2014TO 2019 BOSTON IS ROUGHLY A THIRD OF WHAT PHILLY AND CHICAGO ARE DOING, 11%.

WHAT ARE THOSE CITIES DOING THAT WE ARE NOT?

>> THERE IS A MAIN DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THOSE CITIES AND THE CITY OF BOSTON, AND IT'S THE ONLY THING WE'RE LACKING IN BOSTON AND THAT IS BOLD LEADERSHIP.

IN EACH OF THOSE CITIES, WE'VE SEEN THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE SAYING THE THIS IS NOT ONLY AN ISSUE THEY'RE CARE ABOUT, BUT STRICTLY ENFORCING IT WITH ALL OF THEIR STAFF MEMBERS.

WE HAVE NOT SEEN THAT HAPPEN HERE IN BOSTON.

INSTEAD, WHAT WE'VE BEEN TOLD FOR THE LAST SEVEN YEARS, AND FROM THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION, WE NEED THIS DOCUMENT TO HELP US MOVE FORWARD ON THIS ISSUE, KNOWING FULL WELL ON BOTH SIDES OF CITY HALL, BOTH INTERNALLY AND EXTERNALLY, WITH ORGANIZATION AND OTHERS, WE REALLY DON'T NEED AND DID NOT NEED THIS DOCUMENT TO TELL US THERE IS A PROBLEM OR TO GIVE US THE WAYS TO REDUCE THE SITUATION.

>> Braude: ARE YOU SAYING YOU DON'T THINK THE WALSH ADMINISTRATION CARES ABOUT THIS ISSUE?

THEY HAVE SAID ON MANY OCCASIONS HOW MUCH THEY DO, BUT YOU THINK NOT?

>> YES.

THERE IS A GREAT PROVERB THAT SAYS TO TALK MUCH AND TO ARRIVE NOWHERE IS LIKE TO CATCH A FISH.

FOLKS AT MY END ARE TIRED OF TALK.

IT IS ONE THING TO SAY THAT YOU CARE, AND IT IS ANOTHER TO PROVE IT.

WHEN IT COMES TO ELECTED LEADERSHIP, WE DON'T NEED WORDS.

OUR PEOPLE CAN'T EAT THAT.

WHAT THEY NEED IS ACTION AND WE HAVE YET TO RECEIVE THAT.

>> Braude: BEYOND USING YOUR TERM "BOLDER LEADERSHIP," AND FOR ARGUMENT, I'LL ACCEPT THAT, WHAT DO YOU THINK ARE THE CONCRETE CHANGES?

I WATCHED FOUR AND A HALF HOURS OF TED WEISSMAN'S GREAT DOCUMENTARY "CITY HALL."

AND BELIEVE ONE OF THE PROBLEMS IS SOME OF THE THINGS BID OUT ARE SO LARGE, THAT AN AVERAGE SMALL BUSINESS, WHICH MUCH MORE LIKELY TO BE OWNED BY A PERSON OF COLOR OR WOMAN, CAN'T AFFORD TO BID IT.

SO SHOULD THE BIG THINGS BE BROKEN UP BY THE CITY BEFORE THEY'RE POTENTIALLY SUBCONTRACTED BY THE CONTRACTORS WHO GET THE WINNING BID?

>> ONE OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WE'RE MAKE, IT IS A RECOMMENDATION THAT WE SEE IN THE EXECUTIVE SUMMARY OF THIS REPORT, IT IS A RECOMMENDATION THAT HAS BEEN MADE OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN, AND THIS IS WHY I GO BACK TO THE BOLD LEADERSHIP BECAUSE DESPITE EVERYONE SAYING THIS SHOULD HAPPEN, WE HAVEN'T SEEN IT HAPPEN.

THIS IS ONE OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT THE CITY NEEDS TO FOLLOW THROUGH ON UNBUNDLING THESE LARGE CONTRACTS.

WHICH DOESN'T JUST KEEP MINORITY AND WOMEN-OWNED BUSINESSES FROM BEING ABLE TO BID ON THE CONTRACTS, BUT A LOT OF BUSINESSES.

WE SEE A LOT OF THESE CONTRACTS GO OUT OF STATE, TO LARGER BUSINESSES, AND WE'RE SENDING MONEY OUTSIDE OF OUR COMMUNITY.

WE HAVE HIGH ASPIRATIONAL GOALS, AND SO THE EXECUTIVE BOARD PUTS OVER 16.9% OVERALL.

WE THINK THIS NUMBER IS TOO LOW.

IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THE AVAILABILITY OF OUR BUSINESSES WHO WANT TO DO BUSINESS WITH OUR CITY.

THERE NEEDS TO BE 15% JUST FOR BLACK BUSINESSES, AND 40% FOR MINORITY-OWNED BUSINESSES.

WE'RE ALSO CALLING FOR CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS AT CITY HALL TO BE RELIEVED OF DUTIES SO WE CAN GET IN FOLKS WITH FRESH THINKING AND WITH THE BOLDER RESOLVE TO CARRY FORTH THE WORDS THAT WE HEAR FROM THE MAYOR, ALSO CALLING FOR TYING THE PERFORMANCE EVALUATIONS AND BONUSES AND OTHER THINGS LIKE THAT TO EACH OF THESE GOALS.

RIGHT NOW THERE IS NO ACCOUNTABILITY FOR REACHING OR FAILING TO REACH THESE GOALS.

NONE OF THE THINGS WEIRE TALKING ABOUT ARE BEING DONE.

THAT IS WHAT IS CONCERNING AND FRUSTRATING, THAT WE'RE REPEATING OURSELVES OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND GETTING LITTLE RESULTS OUT OF CITY HALL.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW, MANY AMONGST AGO GOVERNOR BAKER WAS ON OUR RADIO SHOW, AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT A REPORT THAT HAD JUST COME OUT OF GBH ABOUT THE STATE NUMBERS.

OUR COLLEAGUES CONCLUDED DURING THE STATE LEVEL, THE NUMBERS WERE DOWN DURING THE BAKER ADMINISTRATION.

AND GOVERNOR BAKER CHALLENGED THAT AND SAID THAT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT THE CASE.

WHO IS RIGHT IN YOUR ESTIMATION?

>> WELL, I THINK THE GOVERNOR RESPONDED LATER ON, IN 2020, IN THE LATTER PART OF THAT YEAR, MAKING ALL OF THOSE CHANGES TO THE SUPPLY AND DIVERSITY OFFICES, TO HELP BOOST CONTRACTS WITH MINORITY-OWNED BUSINESSES.

I THINK THAT GIVES SOME CREDENCE TO THE REPORTING THAT CHRIS BERRELL AND PAUL SINGER HAVE DONE, AND THEIR AMAZING TEAM OVER AT GBH, IN THE EARLIER PART OF THE YEAR.

WE WOULD CERTAINLY AGREE WITH THE INVESTIGATIVE REPORT THAT CAME OUT, AND CONTINUES TO COME OUT, THAT SHOWS HOW THE STATE ITSELF IS NOT DOING WHAT IT SHOULD BE DOING WITH OUR BUSINESSES.

WHAT WE'RE HAPPY ABOUT IS THAT THE GOVERNOR RESPONDED IN KIND AND HYD HELPED TO REMOVE SOME OF THOSE BARRIERS.

ONE WAY HE DID THAT WAS MAKING THE OFFICE A INDEPENDENT ENTITY.

SO WE'RE HOPING THAT THE CITY OF BOSTON WILL WIND UP DOING THE SAME WITH THEIR EQUITY AND INCLUSION UNIT, SO THERE IS AN OFFICE DEDICATED TO THIS ISSUE TO ENSURE WE CAN REACH OUR GOALS.

>> Braude: I ONLY HAVE A FEW SECONDS LEFT, BUT DOES THIS INCREASE DRAMATICALLY FOR THE NEXT PERSON TO BE OF COLOR TO BE THE NEXT MAYOR?

>> THE FOLKS OF COLOR HAVE CERTAINLY SHOWN THEIR COMMITMENT TO THE ISSUES, AND WE'RE HOPING THE NEXT MAYOR WILL KEEP THIS AS A PRIORITY ON THEIR LIST.

>> Braude: THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

ONE NIGHT IN 1921, A WHITE MOB DESCENDED ON THE NEIGHBORHOOD, BURNING ABOUT 35 BLOCKS TO THE GROUND, INCLUDING HUNDREDS OF BLACK HOMES AND BUSINESSES.

>> I REMEMBER THE PEOPLE COMING IN, WHITE PEOPLE COMING INTO OUR HOUSE WITH TORCHES, SETTING THE CURTAINS ON FIRE AND SETTING OUR HOUSE ON FIRE.

>> MY HUSBAND, HE WAS SO TENDER.

HE JUST BROKE DOWN.

HE SAYS, BABY, WE'VE LOST EVERYTHING WE HAVE.

>> Braude: GOING BACK TO T-TOWN, A DOCUMENTARY FROM WGBH'S AMERICAN EXPERIENCE, TELLS THE STORY OF DESTRUCTION, AND HOW THE NEIGHBORHOOD ROSE FROM THE ASHES.

IT FIRST AIRED CLOSE TO 0 YEARS30YEARS AGO, AND TONIGHT IT IS GETTING AND ENCORE IN HONOUR OF BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

THE CO-WRITER, CARMEN FIELDS, JOINS ME NOW.

CARMEN, CONGRATULATIONS.

IT IS REALLY GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> THANK YOU, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

AND I AM MORE THAN EXCITED THAT THE FILM IS BEING REBROADCAST.

>> Braude: YEAH, THAT IS TWO OF US.

DESCRIBE GREENWOOD, WHAT IT WAS LIKE PRIOR TO MAY 31st, 1921.

>> AS INDICATED, IT BECAME KNOWN AS THE BLACK WALL STREET.

THERE WERE DOZENS, IF NOT SCORES OF BUSINESSES ON BOTH SIDES OF THE STREET.

CLEANERS, HOTELS, CHILI PARLORS, RESTAURANTS, DRUGSTORES, HAB ETC.

IT WAS A COMPLETELY INSULATED COMMUNITY, WHERE ANYTHING YOU NEEDED, YOU COULD FIND RIGHT THERE.

AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS BECAUSE SEGREGATION WAS SO RIGID, AND IT WAS DANGEROUS TO MOVE OUTSIDE THE MONEY.

COMMUNITY.

>> Braude: BUT APPARENTLY THE PROSPERITY IN THAT COMMUNITY CAUSED JEALOUSY AND RESENTMENT IN THE WHITE COMMUNITY.

WHAT EXACTLY HAPPENED ON MAY 31st OF 1921, CARMEN?

>> ACCORDING TO THOSE WITNESSES THAT ARE FEATURED IN THE FILM, A YOUNG AFRICAN-AMERICAN MAN HAD GONE INTO A DEPARTMENT STORE.

HE WAS A WORKER, SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE, AND GOT ON -- WENT TO GET ON AN ELEVATOR AND BRUSHED AGAINST A WHITE ELEVATOR OPERATOR, A YOUNG LADY, WHO TOOK OFFENSE TO IT, AND THE NEXT THING YOU KNOW, HE IS ARRESTED AND WORD SPREAD THROUGH TOWN THERE WAS GOING TO BE A LYNCHING THAT NIGHT.

AND THE BLACK MEN OF THE COMMUNITY ARMED THEMSELVES AND WENT TO THE JAIL TO PREVENT THE LYNCHING.

>> Braude: AND THEN ESSENTIALLY FOR THE NEXT DAY OR SO IS WHAT I DESCRIBED, LOOTING -- >> YES.

NOBODY KNOWS WHO FIRED THE FIRST SHOT, BUT ONCE THE SHOT WAS HEARD, IT WAS ON.

AND IT WAS FOLLOWED BY LOOTING, BURNING, ONE OF THE WITNESSES SAID THEY WERE FIRING FROM AIRPLANES.

AND I CAN REMEMBER CORRECTING SOMEONE WHO MAINTAINED THAT PHILADELPHIA AND THE MOVE INCIDENT WAS THE FIRST TIME A COMMUNITY HAD BEEN BOMBED.

AND THERE ARE SOME THAT MAINTAIN TULSA WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT THAT HAD HAPPENED, THAT MILITARY IN AIRPLANES WERE DROPPING INCENDIARY DEVICES ON THE COMMUNITY.

>> Braude: CARMEN, WAS ANYONE CHARGED WITH A CRIME?

>> NEVER.

NEVER.

NEVER.

>> Braude: NOBODY?

>> NOBODY.

AND NOBODY WAS ARRESTED.

NOBODY WAS CHARGED.

NO ONE WAS HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

>> Braude: THERE ARE MANY AMAZING PARTS OF THE STORY, AND LET ME JUST SAY THAT THE ORAL PART OF THE HISTORY, THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SPOKEN TO IN THE FILM ARE AS POWERFUL A GROUP OF PEOPLE AS I'VE EVER ENCOUNTERED IN AN HOUR-LONG DOCUMENTARY IN MY LIFE.

EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM.

AS A RESULT, IT IS NOT A SURPRISE TO HEAR THERE IS A COMMITMENT IN THAT COMMUNITY, DESPITE THE DEVASTATION AND THE HORROR, TO REBUILD.

BUT EVEN AFTER THE MASSACRE, THE WHITE LEADERSHIP OF THE COMMUNITY DID EVERYTHING THEY COULD, CHANGING BUILDING CODES, THAT SORT OF THING, TO MAKE IT NEAR IMPOSSIBLE.

BUT THEY DID SUCCEED IN REBUILDING, RIGHT?

>> THEY DID SUCCEED AND REBUILT.

AND THEY FLOURISHED WELL INTO THE '50s, EARLY '60s, BUT SOME SAY THAT THE BLESSING, IF YOU WILL, OF INTEGRATION WAS BITTERSWEET.

IT MEANT PEOPLE COULD LIVE OUTSIDE OF THE COMMUNITY, LIVE ANYWHERE THEY WANTED TO AND SHOP ANYWHERE THEY WANTED TO -- THAT AND URBAN RENEWAL HAS NEVER BEEN ABLE TO RECOVER COMPLETELY.

>> Braude: CARMEN, I MENTIONED TO YOU BEFORE WE DID THIS INTERVIEW THAT I WAS EMBARRASSED ABOUT MY LACK OF KNOWLEDGE UNTIL, OF ALL PEOPLE, DONALD TRUMP HAD A PROPOSED RALLY ON JUNE TEENTH, AND IT BECAME KNOWN TO US.

YOU WERE A TULSA KID.

WHAT DID YOU KNOW ABOUT THOSE NIGHTS -- >> VERY, VERY LITTLE.

IT WAS WHISPERED ABOUT.

IT WAS KEPT A SECRET.

AND IF IT WAS MENTIONED, IT WAS MENTIONED IN HUSHED TONES.

IT REALLY WASN'T UNTIL, WITH THE HELP OF THE PRODUCERS, SAM COL LER AND JOYCE BOND, WE WERE ABLE TO BUILD MORE CLOSELY INTO THAT HISTORY AND BRING IT TO LIGHT.

I'M PROUD ABOUT MANY THINGS, BUT ALSO THE FACT THAT THE FILM ANIMATED A WHOLE NEW OPENING OF EYES OF WHAT HAPPENED.

IT IS NOW A PART OF THE CURRICULUM FOR OKLAHOMA PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

DURING MY DAY, IT WAS NOT ANIMATED ORAL HISTORY WITH SOME OF THOSE SURVIVORS AND OTHERS THERE.

AND IT OPENED A WHOLE NEW ERA OF ENLIGHTENMENT, IF YOU WILL.

>> Braude: BY THE WAY, POLLARD IS THE MAN BEHIND THE M.L.K.

F.B.I.

MOVIE -- >> YES.

>> Braude: I WANT TO REFOCUS ON WHAT YOU SAID A MINUTE AGO.

ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL PARTS OF THE FILM SAID WHAT YOU JUST SAID, WE SURVIVED "X," WE SURVIVED THIS MASSACRE.

WHAT WE COULDN'T SURVIVE WAS INTEGRATION.

AND FLUSH THAT OUT JUST A MINUTE FOR US, IF YOU COULD.

>> WELL, IT, AGAIN -- BESIDES INTEGRATION, THERE WAS ALSO URBAN RENEWAL.

AND MANY BLACK PEOPLE REFER TO THAT AS URBAN REMOVAL BECAUSE THE SUPER HIGHWAYS THAT OFTEN BY BISECTED NOT JUST AFRICAN-AMERICAN JUST TULSA, BUT AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITIES, THAT DESTROYED MANY OF THE BUSINESSES AND THEY WERE NEVER ABLE TO RECOVER.

AND NOW I WAS READING -- TWO OR THREE WEEKS AGO THERE WAS A "WASHINGTON POST" ARTICLE ABOUT THE DIFFICULTY OF BLACK DEVELOPERS IN HAVING ACCESS TO CAPITOL OR EVEN THE ABILITY OR OPPORTUNITY TO BUY THE LAND AND BUILD ON THE LEGACY OF GREENWOOD.

IT IS NOW IN THE HANDS OF A FEW VERY POWERFUL WHITE PEOPLE.

>> Braude: CARMEN, THE FILM GRABS YOU RIGHT AWAY WITH SOME INCREDIBLY SPECTACULAR MUSIC AT THE OPENING.

CAN YOU TELL ME WHO COMPOSED AND PERFORMED THE MUSIC IN YOUR FILM?

>> THAT MUSIC, I'M PROUD TO SAY, IS FROM THE ERNIE FIELDS ORCHESTRA.

ERNIE FIELDS IS MY FATHER.

AND THE TITLE COMES FROM THE SONG "T-TOWN BLUES," THAT HE WROTE AND RECORDED IN NEW YORK CITY IN 1939.

AND PART OF IT SAYS, I'M GOING BACK TO T-TOWN TO GET MY WOMEN IN LINE.

I'M GOING BACK TO T-TOWN, ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR, FIVE, SIX, SEVEN, EIGHT, NINE.

>> Braude: I CAN SEE THE PRIDE IN YOUR FACE.

WE'LL PLAY A LITTLE IN A MINUTE.

I WISH I HAD SEEN THIS WHEN IT FIRST CAME OUT IN '93, BUT EVERYBODY SHOULD WATCH TONIGHT.

IT IS SPECTACULAR.

>> THANK YOU.

I'M VERY PROUD OF IT.

>> Braude: YOU CAN WATCH "GOING BACK TO T-TOWN" TONIGHT AT 8:00 ON GBH.

THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT, PLEASE COME BACK TOMORROW.

I'LL BE JOINED BY FORMER STATE SENATOR BEN DOWNING, WHO JUST BECAME THE FIRST PERSON TO ANNOUNCE A RUN FOR GOVERNOR IN 2022.

THAT AND MORE TOMORROW AT 7:00.

STAY SAFE.

AND AS PROMISED, WE'LL LEAVE YOU WITH THE THEME SONG FROM "GOING BACK TO T-TOWN."

♪♪ Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org [INSTRUMENTAL] ♪♪ ♪ I'M GOING BACK TO T-TOWN TO GET MY WOMEN IN LINE ♪ ♪♪ ♪ YES,