>> Braude: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON": WHEN ATTORNEY GENERAL MAURA HEALEY ANNOUNCED HER RUN FOR GOVERNOR LAST MONTH, SHE LEFT THE RACE FOR HER CURRENT JOB WIDE OPEN.

AND TONIGHT ALL THREE DEMOCRATS WHO HOPE TO FILL THE BREACH: FORMER BOSTON CITY COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANDREA CAMPBELL, ATTORNEY SHANNON LISS-RIORDAN, AND FORMER NOMINEE FOR LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR QUENTIN PALFREY.

WE'LL ASK EACH OF THEM ESSENTIALLY THE SAME QUESTIONS SO YOU CAN MAKE A SIDE-BY-SIDE COMPARISON.

BUT FOR THOSE CONCERNED ABOUT FAIRNESS, NONE WILL HAVE HEARD THE INTERVIEWS OF THE OTHERS.

YOU WITH ME?

THEN LET'S GET STARTED.

UP FIRST, ANDREA CAMPBELL REPRESENTED DORCHESTER AND MATTAPAN ON THE BOSTON CITY COUNCIL FOR SIX YEARS.

IN 2018 SHE BECAME THE FIRST BLACK WOMAN EVER ELECTED PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL.

AND LAST YEAR SHE FINISHED THIRD IN A BID FOR BOSTON MAYOR.

>> Braude: SHE JOINS ME NOW.

ANDREA CAMPBELL, GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> GOOD TO SEE YOU.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Braude: A PLEASURE.

WHY ARE YOU THE BEST CANDIDATE FOR THE JOB?

>> FOR SEVERAL REASONS.

ONE, I THINK I BRING THE UNIQUE AND DIFFERENT LIVED EXPERIENCE.

I'VE ALREADY BEEN ON THE TRAIL, CRISS-CROSSING THE STATE, AND I WILL CONTINUE TO, TALKING ABOUT MY LIVED EXPERIENCE, AND GROWING UP, FRANKLY, IN A FAMILY TORN APART BY POVERTY, INCARCERATION, AND CRIME, WHICH, OF COURSE, IS VERY MUCH WHAT THE FAMILIES ARE DEALING WITH IN THE COMMONWEALTH RIGHT NOW.

I BRING A UNIQUE LEGAL EXPERIENCE.

I WORKED IN THE NON-PROFIT SECTOR AS AN EDUCATIONAL ATTORNEY, IN STATE GOVERNMENT FOR GOVERNOR DEVAL PATRICK, AS WELL AS FOR A REGIONAL PLANNING AGENCY, AND AN ELECTED EXPERIENCE.

AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME, I'M EXCITED FOR MY CANDIDACY AND TO GET OUT THERE IN TELL FOLKS WHY THE A.G.'s OFFICE CAN DO IN THEIR DAILY LIVES.

>> Braude: ANYTHING MAURA HEALEY DID THAT YOU WOULD DO DIFFERENTLY AS ATTORNEY GENERAL?

>> FIRST OFF, I THINK IT IS BEST TO GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DID.

SHE HAS DONE INCREDIBLE WORK FOR THE OPIOID PROBLEM AND CLIMATE CHANGE.

BUT FOR ME, IT IS LOOKING THROUGH A DIFFERENT LENS, HOW TO DEAL WITH RACIAL DISPARITIES.

AND I TALK MY TWIN BROTHER, ANDRE, WHO IS VERY MUCH THE REASON I GOT INTO THE WORK OF PUBLIC SERVICE.

SO STILL A LOT OF WORK TO DO THAT.

AND, ALSO, WHEN IT COMES TO OTHER STRUGGLES THAT FAMILIES AREAREFAMILIES ARE DEALING WITH IN THE COMMONWEALTH, MAKING SURE YOUR FAMILY CAN STAY IN THEIR HOME, MAKING A LIVING WAGE, AND LOOKING AT A WHOLE LIST OF PROBLEMS FAMILIES ARE STRUGGLING WITH IS ALSO CRITICAL, TOO.

>> Braude: ANY AREA WHEN SHE CAME UP SHORT, IN YOUR OPINION, ANDREA CAMPBELL?

>> I WAS LOOKING AT THE RACIAL DISPARITIES THAT CONTINUE TO EXIST WHEN IT COMES TO ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE, WHEN IT COMES TO BUILDING COMMUNITIES OF TRUST FOR COMMUNITIES OF COLOR, WHICH WE KNOW ABOUT WITH THE COVID.

FOR ME, IT IS ABOUT PUSHING THE ENVELOPE WHEN IT COMES TO WHAT THE OFFICE CAN DO.

I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT FAMILIES HAVE ACCESS TO GOOD EDUCATION AND PRE-"K," AND WE MED NEED TO PREPARED FOR THE FORECLOSURE PROBLEMS THAT CAN COME WITH THE COVID.

AND LOOKING AT EVERYTHING DURING AN EQUITY LENS, AND DRIVING AN AGENDA THROUGH THAT LENS.

>> Braude: I WANT TO BROACH A COUPLE OF ISSUES WITH YOU THAT YOU EITHER HAVE FORMAL POWER AS ATTORNEY GENERAL OR THE BULLY PULPIT POWER.

THE STATE RECEIVED $3 MILLION IN UNEMPLOYMENT, THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN, NO FRAUD, AND THE STATE WANTS THAT MONEY BACK.

ONE, DO YOU THINK THOSE PEOPLE WHO GOT IT, AGAIN, THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN, HAVE TO REPAY IT?

AND IF NO, WHAT WOULD YOU DO AS ATTORNEY GENERAL TO HELP THEM?

>> I THINK IT IS A CONVERSATION WE NEED TO HAVE.

FAMILIES RIGHT NOW ARE STILL STRUGGLING IN THE MIDST OF COVID.

FAMILIES ARE STILL LOSING THEIR JOBS, CONCERNED, OF COURSE, ABOUT WHAT WILL COME NEXT.

THERE IS A LOT OF UNCERTAINTY.

WHEN GOVERNMENT MAKES A MISTAKE, WE NEED TO OWN THAT IT IS THE GOVERNMENT'S FAULT, AND AT THE SAME TIME, SEEING WHAT WE CAN DO TO RIGHT THE WRONG.

OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE PUBLIC DOLLARS AND WE NEED TO BE MINDFUL OF THAT.

BUT THERE IS A WAY TO HAVE A PROCESS AND A WAY TO BE REALLY THOUGHTFUL IN OUR CONVERSATIONS.

I CAN'T STRESS THIS ENOUGH: MY GOAL IS TO DEAL WITH THINGS FROM A BOTTOM UP APPROACH, NOT A TOP TO BOTTOM.

WE NEED TO DEAL WITH THINGS THAT FAMILIES ARE STRUGGLING THROUGH, FROM THE COMMONWEALTH, TO BERKSHIRE, TO THE CAPE AND ISLANDS, FAMILIES ARE STRUGGLING.

RIGHT NOW THE CONVERSATION NEEDS TO BE ABOUT HOW CAN WE SUPPORT THEM, HOW CAN WE ENSURE THEY THRIVE POST-COVID PANDEMIC, AND, OF COURSE, GET A GOOD FOOTING, SO THEY'RE PREPARED FOR THE NEXT THING THAT MAY COME, INCLUDING ANOTHER PANDEMIC.

>> Braude: ALL THREE OF YOU RUNNING ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL TALKED ABOUT COMBATING SYSTEMIC RACISM.

CAN YOU TELL ME SPECIFICALLY WHAT YOU WOULD DO AS ATTORNEY GENERAL TO DO THAT?

>> ESSENTIALLY, IT IS A CONTINUECONTINUATION OF THE WORK I HAVE DONE MY ENTIRE LIFE.

I FOUGHT FOR FUNDING TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT INSTITUTION HAD THAT.

I ALSO KNOW TRAINING IS NOT ENOUGH.

IT REALLY IS ABOUT INTENTIONALITY.

EVERYTHING WE DO, WHETHER IT IS AROUND HEALTH CARE, HOUSING, THE ENVIRONMENT, CLIMATE CHANGE, THE OPIOID CRISIS, CRIMINAL REFORM, YOU NAME IT, WE NEED TO LOOK AT THE ISSUES THROUGH THAT LENS, LOOK AT THE IMPACTS IT WILL HAVE ON THE COMMUNITIES OF COLOR, AND MAKE SURE WE HAVE LEGISLATION ETC.

THAT EVERYTHING FEELS THEY'RE ACTUALLY BENEFITING.

MANY FOLKS DON'T UNDERSTAND WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RACIAL DISPARITIES IN ANY SYSTEM, IT DOES NOT JUST AFFECT PEOPLECHPEOPLE OF COLOR.

ALL OF US ARE AFFECTR AFFECTED BY THAT.

BECAUSE WHEN THE SYSTEM FAILS US, IT HOLDS ALL OF US BACK.

SO FOR ME, IT IS IMPORTANT TO GET OUT THERE AND HAVE THE HARD CONVERSATIONS WITH CONSTITUENTS, AND TA TOUC ABOUT HOWTOTALK ABOUT HOW I WOULD BE A LEADER.

>> Braude: IMMUNITY -- THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM BILL IN THIS STATE WAS SIGNED AT THE ENDS OF 20, THERE2020, THERE WAS A MINOR CHANGE.

SOME PEOPLE THINK IT SHOULD BE DONE AWAY WITH.

DO YOU?

>> I'VE BEEN ON RECORD PUSHING FOR REFORM.

I RESTORED A LINE ITEM LITERALLY IN OUR STATE BUDGET TO SUPPORT OFFICERS AND COMMUNITY POLICING.

AT THE SAME TIME, I BELIEVE IN TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY.

NO ONE SHOULD BE ABOVE THE LAW.

WHEN SOMEONE COMMITS ANY THE TYPE OF HEINOUS ACT AGAINST SOMEONE IN THE COMMONWEALTH, THERE SHOULD BE CRIMINAL CONSEQUENCES.

BECAUSE NO ONE SHOULD BE ABOVE THE LAW, AND I THINK THAT IS THE MANTRA WE NEED TO STAND BY IN EVERYTHING WE DO.

>> Braude: I NEED TO BE CLEAR: DOES THAT MEAN THERE SHOULD BE NO QUALIFIED IMMUNITY FOR POLICE OFFICERS IN MASSACHUSETTS?

>> NO.

I'VE COME OUT ON RECORD AGAINST THAT.

I THINK EVERYONE SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE ACCORDINGLY.

I WILL ADD IN THE CONTEXT OF GEORGE FLOYD AND OTHER PAINFUL MURDERS WE'VE SEEN ACROSS THE COUNTRY, USUALLY JUSTICE AND ACCOUNTABILITY DO NOT WIN THE DAY.

I THINK THERE IS A WAY TO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT ON THESE ISSUES TO MOVE THE NEEDLE FORWARD FOR TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY, NO ONE SHOULD BE ABOVE THE LAW WHEN THEY COMMIT WRONG-DOING, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE.

>> Braude: WE HAVE LESS THAN A MINUTE LEFT.

WE'RE THE ONLY STATE IN AMERICA WHERE THE LEGISLATURE, THE JUDICIARY, AND THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE CLAIM TO BE EXEMPT FROM PUBLIC LAWS.

SHOULD THAT BE FIXED?

>> I THINK IT SHOULD BE FIXED.

I BELIEVE IN ACCOUNTABILITY AND EQUITY.

WHEN I WAS ON THE CITY COUNCIL, WE HAD TO, INCREASE, ABIDE BY PUBLIC RECORDS LAW.

AS A LAWYER FOR GOVERNOR PATRICK, I HAD TO MAKE SURE THAT HIS ADMINISTRATION AND MANY OTHERS RESPONDED TO THESE TYPES OF REQUEST.

TRANSPARENCY IS ONE FUNDAMENTAL FOUNDATION FOR GOVERNMENT.

IT ALLOWS US TO BUILD TRUST.

I THINK THINGS THAT STAND IN THE WAY OF THAT SHOULD BE RE-EVALUATED.

>> Braude: AROUND ANDREA CAMPBELL, GOOD LUCK.

HOPE TO SEE YOU IN THE COMING YEAR.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Braude: NEXT UP, AFTER BUILDING A CAREER AS A LABOR ATTORNEY, GOING UP AGAINST GIANTS LIKE UBER, LYFT, AND AMAZON, SHANNON LISS-RIORDAN CHALLENGED ED MARKEY FOR HIS SENATE SEAT IN 2019.

SHE LATER WITHDREW FROM THE RACE, BUT SHE'S BACK.

>> Braude: SHANNON, IT IS GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> GOOD TO SEE YOU, JIM.

>> Braude: WHY ARE YOU THE BEST QUALIFIED PERSON FOR THE JOB?

>> I HAVE SPENT MY CAREER FIGHTING THE TOUGHEST BATTLES, TAKING ON SOME OF THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES AGAINST SOME OF AMERICA'S LARGEST CORPORATIONS.

I HAVE FOUGHT FOR WORKERS; I HAVE WON.

AND I EXCITED TO TAKE THIS WORK TO THE PEOPLE.

>> Braude: ANYTHING YOU WOULD DO DIFFERENTLY THAN MAURA HEALEY DURING HER TIME IN OFFICE?

>> MAURA HAS BEEN A TERRIFIC A.G.

I'M EXCITED TO EXPAND ON THE EXCELLENT WORK SHE HAS DONE.

I'M EXCITED TO DOUBLE DOWN ON -- FIGHTING FOR REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS, AND MAKING SURE OUR COMPLY IS A FAIR ECONOMY, INCLUDING EVERYONE.

>> Braude: SHE ANNOUNCED FOR GOVERNOR, SAYING SHE HAD NOT BEEN AGGRESSIVE ENOUGH IN HER PURSUIT OF PUBLIC CORRUPTION.

SHE SAID ON OUR RADIO SHOW SHE THOUGHT THAT CRITICISM WAS TOTALLY UNFAIR.

DO YOU THINK THE CRITICISM IS FAIR?

>> ONE OF THE INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT RESPONSIBILITIES OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IS TO ENSURE THAT OUR LAWS ARE ENFORCED -- THAT ALL OF OUR LAWS ARE ENFORCED, AND THAT INCLUDES THE LAWS AGAINST PUBLIC CORRUPTION.

OUR DEMOCRACY DEPENDS ON THE ATTORNEY GENERAL BEING A STRONG ADVOCATE FOR THE PEOPLE, AND THAT'S EXACTLY I WILL ENSURE HAPPENS WHEN I AM ATTORNEY GENERAL.

>> Braude: HAS SHE BEEN A STRONG ENOUGH ADVOCATE ON THOSE ISSUES?

>> I THINK MAURA HAS DONE A GREAT JOB IN A LOT OF AREAS.

I THINK THERE IS MORE THAT CAN BE DONE IN MANY OF THOSE AREAS, AND I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO TAKING ON AND BUILDING ON THE WORK SHE HAS DONE.

WORKER PROTECTION, IN PARTICULAR, THERE IS SO MUCH MORE THAT CAN BE DONE TO MAKE SURE WE GET MONEY BACK INTO PEOPLE'S POCKETS, AND THAT'S WHAT I SPENT MY CAREER DOING AND SUCCEEDING AT.

>> Braude: SPEAKING ABOUT MONEY IN PEOPLE'S POCKETS, ALMOST EVERY TIME I SPOKE TO MAURA HEALEY, SHE HAS REFERRED TO THE POSITION AS BEING THE PEOPLE'S LAWYER.

BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WENT INTO THE POCKETS OF UNEMPLOYED PEOPLE IN THIS STATE DURING THE PANDEMIC.

700,000 OF THEM, ACCORDING TO THE STATE, GOT THE MONEY IMPROPERLY.

NOT THROUGH FRAUD OR ANY THING ON THEIR OWN, AND NOW THE STATE WANTS THE MONEY BACK, AND IN SOME CASES TOTALING TENSE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.

ONE, SHOULD THEY PAY THE MONEY BACK?

AND, TWO, IF THEY SHOULDN'T, WHAT WOULD YOU DO AS ATTORNEY GENERAL TO HELP THEM?

>> NO.

WE HAVE BEEN GOING THROUGH A LOT OF TROUBLES DURING THE PANDEMIC, AND THERE WERE A LOT OF RESOURCES PUT IN THROUGH THE STATE GOVERNMENT AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, TO HELP PEOPLE WHO WERE SET BACK BY THE PANDEMIC.

THERE WERE INNOCENT MISTAKES THAT WERE MADE.

AND, NO, WE SHOULD NOT BE CLAWING THAT MONEY BACK FROM THE PEOPLE.

IF THERE WAS ACTUAL FRAUD, YES WE SHOULD COLLECT THAT AND MAKING SURE THE TAXPAYERS SHOULD NOT HAVE TO PAY THAT.

BUT FOR THOSE WHO USED THE MONEY HONESTLY, TO PUT FOOD ON THEIR TABLE, NO, WE SHOULDN'T REQUEST THAT MONEY BACK.

>> Braude: WOULD YOU DO SOMETHING AS ATTORNEY GENERAL?

>> YES.

I WOULD MAKE SURE THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE WOULD BE USED TO SUPPORT THE PEOPLE AND PROTECT THE PEOPLE.

THAT'S ONE THING I KNOW FROM MY CAREER AS A CIVIL RIGHTS PERSON, I HAVE DEALT WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, AND WE HAVE FOUGHT TOGETHER TO HELP WORKERS.

AND THERE ARE ALSO TIMES WHEN IT'S ATTORNEY GENERAL IS CALLED UPON TO DEFEND THE COMMONWEALTH, AND THERE ARE TIMES WHEN THAT IS THE PROPER ACTION.

AND THERE ARE TIMES WHEN MISTAKES WERE MADE.

AS ATTORNEY GENERAL, I NEED TO LOOK AT EVERY CASE AND MAKE SURE EVERY CASE IS IN THE INTEREST OF THE PEOPLE.

>> Braude: WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN YOU ARE BOUND TO REPRESENT THE STATE, AND YOU THINK THE STATE HAS TAKEN THE WRONG POSITION.

WHAT DO YOU DO AS ATTORNEY GENERAL?

>> ONE IS TO RESOLVE THE ISSUE AND FIGURE OUT WHAT WENT WRONG AND MAKE SURE IT NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN.

AND IN EXTREME CIRCUMSTANCES, IF IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO GET RESOLVED, AS ATTORNEY GENERAL, I WOULD NOT DEFEND THE STATE IN SITUATIONS WHERE THE STATE IS NOT ON THE RIGHT SIDE.

I CAN APPOINT A SPECIALIST ATTORNEY GENERAL, AND I COULD JOIN THE SIDE OF THE PLAINTIFFS WHERE APPROPRIATE.

>> Braude: SHANNON, YOU, ON YOUR WEBSITE, AND THE TWO PEOPLE YOU ARE RUNNING AGAINST, TALK ABOUT COMBATING SYSTEMIC RACISM.

CAN YOU TELL ME SPECIFICALLY WHAT YOU WOULD DO, SPECIFICALLY, AS ATTORNEY GENERAL TO DO THAT?

>> I HAVE SPENDER I HAVE SPENT MY CAREER FIGHTING TO IRRADICATE SYSTEMIC RACISM.

I HAVE WORKED TO GET FIREFIGHTERS AND POLICE OFFICERS, BLACK AND HISPANIC, HIRED ACROSS THE COMMONWEALTH.

I HAVE GOTTEN COMPANIES TO OPEN THEIR DOORS TO HIRING BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE, WHO THEY HADN'T HIRED BEFORE DO TO DISCRIMINATORY PROCESS.

I'M TALKING ON UBER FOR USING RACIALLY DISCRIMINATE ALGORITHMS.

I THINK WE NEED TO BE OUT FRONT, SEEING HOW RACISM IS CREEPING INTO SO MANY ASPECTS OF OUR SOCIETY.

I'VE BEEN A LEADER IN FIGHTING THOSE BATTLES, WINNING IN COURT, AND FORESEEING WHAT BATTLES ARE COMING.

AND THAT IS THE FIGHT I WILL TAKE TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE.

>> Braude: MANY PEOPLE WHO ADVOCATED FOR SERIOUS CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM ON THE STATE AND FEDERAL LEVEL, SAY ONE OF THE WAYS YOU GET THERE AND ADDRESS THE ISSUE, IS BY ELIMINATING IMMUNITY.

THE STATE WENT ABOUT THIS FAR IN THIS DIRECTION, A MINOR CHANGE IN LATE 2020.

SHOULD QUALIFIED IMMUNITY BE ELIMINATED FOR POLICE OFFICERS?

>> THERE ARE A A LOT OF THINGS THAT NEED TO BE LOOKED AT TO MAKE SURE OUR CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM IS FAIR AND SAFE, AND KEEPING PEOPLE SAFE, AND IS DOING SO IN A WAY THAT IS FAIR FOR THE PEOPLE IT IS MEANT TO PROTECT.

YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH DECISIONS OUT THERE, WRITTEN DECISIONS, THAT WOULD ESTABLISH WHAT THE LAW IN THE AREA IS.

I KNOW ONE OF THE RUSTLES THE COMMISSION WAS TO LOOK AT HOW WE COULD MAKE SURE THAT THERE ARE MORE DECISIONS ACTUALLY WRITTEN SO THAT OFFICERS KNOW THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES AND CITIZENS KNOW THEIR RIGHTS.

AND THAT WILL HELP GET US CLOSER TO A JUST SYSTEM.

THERE ARE A LOT OF RECOMMENDATIONS THAT CAME OUT OF THAT REPORT AND THAT COMMISSION.

AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE IS GOING TO PLAY A VERY CRITICAL ROLE IN APPOINTING PEOPLE, MAKING SURE WE ARE DOING RIGHT TO REFORM OUR CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM TO MAKE SURE IT IS WORKING FOR THE PEOPLE.

>> Braude: THERE IS NO OTHER STATE IN THE COUNTRY THAT EXEMPTS JUDICIARY, THE LEGISLATURE, AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE FROM PUBLIC RECORDS.

IS THAT A SATISFACTORY STATE OF THE LAW OR SHOULD IT BE CHANGED?

>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.

TRANSPARENCY IS KEY TO OUR DEMOCRACY, AND I WILL DO EVERYTHING I CAN TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE A TRANSPARENT STATE GOVERNMENT ON ALL LEVELS BECAUSE IT IS ABSOLUTELY IMPERATIVE.

SUNSHINE IS THE GREATEST REMEDY TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PEOPLE ARE INVOLVED AND KNOW WHAT THEIR GOVERNMENT IS DOING.

>> Braude: SOMEBODY ELSE SAID IT IS A PRETTY GOOD DISINFECTANT.

SHANNON LISS-RIORDAN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, JIM.

I APPRECIATE IT.

>> Braude: FINALLY TONIGHT, QUENTIN PALFREY MOST RECENTLY SERVED AS ACTING GENERAL COUNSEL AT THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE UNDER JOE BIDEN.

BEFORE THAT HE WAS THE 2018 DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE FOR LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR AND A FORMER STATE PROSECUTOR.

>> Braude: QUENTIN PALFREY JOINS ME NOW.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME, JIM.

>> Braude: WHY ARE YOU THE BEST PERSON FOR THE JOB?

>> AS A FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL, I'VE SEEN FIRSTHAND HOW THE A.G. CAN HELP THE MOST.

THEY CAN BRING MUCH-NEEDED URGENCY TO THE FIGHT AGAINST RACIAL INJUSTICE AND THE CLIMATE CRISIS AND THE FIGHT FOR OUR DEMOCRACY.

>> Braude: AND WHY ARE YOU THE BEST PERSON TO LEAD THOSE FIGHTS?

>> I THINK MY EXPERIENCE AS A FORMER ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL, AND AS A LEADER IN THE BIDEN AND THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION HAS GIVEN ME THE EXPERIENCE THAT I NEED TO LEAD THIS OFFICE IN THIS REALLY IMPORTANT TIME.

>> Braude: DO YOU THINK AS ATTORNEY GENERAL THERE IS ANYTHING YOU WOULD DO DIFFERENTLY THAN MAURA HEALEY HAS DONE IN HER EIGHT YEARS IN OFFICE?

>> I THINK MAURA HEALEY HAS BEEN A DIFFERENT ATTORNEY GENERAL.

SHE WAS THE CHIEF OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION, AND WE WORKED HAND-IN-HAND.

I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS SHE HAS DONE REALLY WELL WAS TO FIGHT BACK AGAINST A CORRUPT AND IMMORAL TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, DURING A TIME THAT WAS DESPERATELY NEEDED.

I THINK AT THE SAME TIME, SANITY IN THE WHITE HOUSE HAS ALLOWED US TO SHIFT OUR FOCUS TO ISSUES THAT AFFECT US HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS EVERY DAY.

I WOULD ENVISION IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS IN THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE, WE CAN FOCUS A LITTLE MORE ON THE ISSUES THAT AFFECT US IN MASSACHUSETTS.

>> Braude: SPEAKING OF CORRUPTION IN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, ONE OF THE FEWEST CRITICISM I HAVE HEARD OF HER IS SHE WAS NOT TOUGH ENOUGH ON PUBLIC CORRUPTION NEAR IN MASSACHUSETTS.

SHE THINKS THOSE CRITICISMS ARE UNFAIR.

DO YOU THINK THEY'RE UNFAIR?

>> I THINK THIS IS A MOMENT IN TIME WHEN PUBLIC FAITH IN GOVERNMENT IS AT A LOW EBB, AND I THINK THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SHOULD HELP TO PROVIDE ACCOUNT TAIBILITYD SOACCOUNTABILITY SO THE PEOPLE CAN TRUST THAT THE PEOPLE WORKING FOR THEM ARE DOING SO IN THEIR BEST INTEREST.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A HEIGHTENED FOCUS ON PUBLIC CORRUPTION IN THE OFFICE.

I HAD SOME EXPERIENCE FIRSTHAND, WHEN I CAME INTO THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION ON DAY ONE, I INHERITED A LOT OF MESSES THAT WERE LEFT BEHIND FROM FRANKLY CORRUPT POLITICAL APPOINTEES IN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

>> Braude: THIS IS A VARIATION ON A THEME.

700,000 PEOPLE IN THE COMMONWEALTH WERE ON UNEMPLOYMENT DURING THE PANDEMIC -- ACTUALLY, MANY MORE -- BUT 700,000 WHO THE BAKER ADMINISTRATION IS CONTENDING, THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN, MEANING THE RECIPIENT, RECEIVED UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS.

NO FRAUD OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

THE BAKER ADMINISTRATION BELIEVES THE MONEY NEEDS TO BE REPAID, NOT EN EVERY CASE, BUT IN MOST CASES.

ONE, SHOULD THOSE PEOPLE HAVE TO REPAY THAT MONEY TO THE STATE?

AND IF THEY SHOULD NOT, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO TO HELP THEM?

>> SO, I DON'T THINK SO.

I THINK WHEN FOLKS RECEIVED MONEY THAT WAS NOT THROUGH THE FAULT OF THEIR OWN, I THINK WE SHOULD FIGURE OUT SOME KIND OF A LEGISLATIVE FIX TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE WHO RELIED ON THAT MONEY IN A REALLY DELICATE TIME IN THIS ECONOMY DON'T HAVE NOW A HUGE FINANCIAL BURDEN ON THEM TO REPAY THAT MONEY.

BUT I THINK THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE A.G.'S OFFICE CAN DO ON THIS ISSUE AND MANY OTHERS IS REALLY BE THE CONSUMERS' ADVOCATE, AND STAND UP AND FIGHT FOR WORKERS AND CIVIL RIGHTS.

I THINK IT GOES BEYOND ENFORCING CONSUMER PROTECTION LAWS.

I THINK IF THERE IS AN UNFAIR APPROACH THAT THE GOVERNOR TAKES, OR THE LEGISLATURE TAKES, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SHOULD SAY SO.

>> Braude: ALL THREE OF YOU TALK ABOUT COMBATING SYSTEMIC RACISM EITHER IN YOUR WEBSITE OR EARLY CAMPAIGN JAUNTS AND THAT SORTER OF THING.

HOW SPECIFICALLY YOU, AS ATTORNEY GENERAL, DO THAT?

>> I THINK THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD AND THE KYLE RITTENHOUSE VERDICT ARE THE MOST RECENT REMINDERS THERE ARE TWO JUSTICE SYSTEMS IN AMERICA.

WE IMPRISON TOM TOO MANY PEOPLE FOR TOO LONG.

I THINK THE A.G. IS ONE OF THE KEY FIGURES WHO CAN FIGHT BACK AGAINST THAT RACIAL INJUSTICE.

IT IS NOT ONE THING.

WE OBVIOUSLY NEED TO BRING URGENCY TO POLICE REFORM, TO CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM.

BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO LOOK AT SYSTEMIC DISPARITIES IN THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM, IN THE EDUCATION SYSTEM, IN THE HOUSING SYSTEM, IN TRANSPORTATION.

UNFORTUNATELY, WE HAVE A LEGACY IN THIS COUNTRY OF SYSTEMIC BARRIERS TO VOTING.

I THINK THAT THE A.G. IS ONE OF THE MAIN CIVIL RIGHTS VOICES IN THE COMMONWEALTH AND NEEDS TO BRING URGENCY TO THIS FIGHT.

>> Braude: YOU MENTIONED CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM, AND THE FIRST TWO EXAMPLES YOU BROUGHT WAS POLICE MISCONDUCT.

IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM PASSED BY THE LEGISLATURE A LITTLE MORE THAN A YEAR AGO, THERE WAS A MINOR CHANGE TO QUALIFIED IMMUNITY, WHICH SHIELDS POLICE OFFICERS AND OTHER PUBLIC OFFICERS FROM LIABILITY FOR WHAT THEY DO IN OFFICE.

AND IF AN ENTITY TOOK AWAY THEIR BADGE, THEY COULD BE SUED, BUT THAT'S THE END OF IT.

>> I AM AMONG THEM.

I THINK THERE IS MUCH MORE WE NEED TO DO TO MAKE SURE WE HOLD POLICE ACCOUNTABLE FOR MISCONDUCT, AND PARTICULARLY MISCONDUCT THAT HAS A RACIAL ELEMENT TO IT.

I THINK THERE IS AN URGENT NEED TO BRING MORE POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY, AND I THINK THE QUALIFIED IMMUNITY GOES IN THE OTHER DIRECTION AND WE SHOULD MOVE AWAY FROM IT.

>> Braude: WHAT DO YOU DO ABOUT THOSE WHO SAY IT WOULD DISCOURAGE GOOD PEOPLE FROM SEEKING THOSE POSITIONS FOR FEAR THAT INNOCENT MISTAKES END UP BEING CRIMINALLY LIABLE MISTAKES, FOR LACK OF A BETTER EXPRESSION.

>> FIRST OF ALL, I HAVE THE UTMOST RESPECT FOR PEOPLE OF PUBLIC OFFICE.

WE NEED TO COMPENSATE OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT VERY WELL.

BUT THERE ARE OTHER DEFENSES THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO ANYONE WHO IS INVOLVED IN AN ALTERCATION.

AND THOSE DEFENSES ARE AVAILABLE IF SOMEBODY HAS A DEFENSE.

BUT I DON'T THINK THERE SHOULD BE A SPECIAL DEFENSE OF QUALIFIED IMMUNITY.

I THINK THAT HAS LED TO TOO MANY BAD OUTCOMES, AND I THINK WE SHOULD LIMIT IT.

>> Braude: IT IS ALMOST ALWAYS GOOD FOR A STATE TO BE NUMBER ONE IN SOMETHING, BUT NOT IN THIS AREA.

WE'RE THE ONLY STATE, ARC CORGACCORDING TO "THE BOSTON GLOBE," WHERE THE JUDICIARY, THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE, AND THE LEGISLATURE ALL BELIEVE THEY'RE EXEMPT FROM PUBLIC RECORDS LAWS.

IS THAT A GOOD WAY FOR A STATE TO OPERATE?

AND IF IT IS NOT, WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT IT?

>> I DON'T THINK IT IS.

WE NEED TO OPEN UP OUR GOVERNMENT.

WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PUBLIC HAS ACCESS TO THE RECORDS OF THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE AND TO OTHER SENIOR LEVELS OF THE ADMINISTRATION.

THERE ALWAYS SHOULD BE SOME EXCEPTIONS FOR DELIBERATIVE PROCESS AND ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE.

BUT WE NEED MUCH MORE TRANSPARENCY IN OUR GOVERNMENT.

WE NEED MANY MORE OPPORTUNITIES TO HOLD OUR GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABLE.

THAT MEANS AMENDING OUR OPEN LAWS AND GIVING MORE ACCESS TO DATA AND TO RECORDS TO THE PUBLIC SO THAT THE PUBLIC CAN TRUST WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE GOVERNMENT ON OUR BEHALF.

>> Braude: QUENTIN PALFREY, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

I HOPE TO SEE YOU IN THE NEAR FUTURE.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Braude: JESSE PITTS ONCE SPENT NINE MONTHS BEHIND BARS FOR SELLING MARIJUANA.

NOW HE RUNS THE FIRST SOCIAL EQUITY BUSINESS IN MASSACHUSETTS TO GET THREE DIFFERENT LICENSES TO GROW, MANUFACTURE, AND SELL THE DRUG LEGALLY.

HE'LL JOIN ME TOMORROW AT 7:00.

THANKS FOR WATCHING, AND PLEASE STAY SAFE.

>> NEW DAWN.

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>> NEW DUO.

>> I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO THAT, YEAH.

>> JOIN ME, PARIS ALSTON.

>> AND ME, JEREMY SIEGEL.

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>> SEE YOU IN THE MORNING.

>> HEY, FOLKS, EDWARD B. HERWICK III HERE FROM THE CURIOSITY DESK, THAT NEW VIDEO SERIES FROM GBH THAT EVERYONE IS TALKING ABOUT.

WELL, EVERYBODY'S NOT TALKING ABOUT IT...YET.

BUT HERE'S WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW: IT ALL STARTS WITH YOU, CURIOSITY-SEEKERS AND RESTLESS WONDERS WHO MEET EACH DAY FULL OF QUESTIONS AND READY TO LEARN SOMETHING NEW.

THEN THERE'S ME, EDWARD B. HERWICK III, CERTIFIED STUDENT OF HISTORY, PROFESSIONAL QUESTION-ASKER, AWARD-WINNING JOURNALIST, FORMER DISTANT THIRD-PLACE FINISHER ON AN EPISODE OF "JEOPARDY."

AND, OF COURSE, EXPERTS: FROM AUTHORS TO ASTROPHYSICISTS, ENGINEERS TO ETYMOLOGISTS, WE ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS, TAKE YOU TO PLACES YOU DIDN'T EVEN KNOW YOU WANTED TO GO, DIVE DEEPER INTO THE NEWS AND SOLVE SOME OF THOSE MYSTERIES HIDING IN PLAIN SIGHT ALL AROUND US.

WHEN?

EVERY WEEK.

A NEW EPISODE LOVINGLY CRAFTED BY OUR CRACKERJACK TEAM OF CURIOUS CONTENT CREATORS.

IN A WORLD WHERE SO MANY ANSWERS ARE JUST A CLICK AWAY.

THERE ARE STILL THINGS THE INTERNET CANNOT TELL US.

MYSTERIES, BIG AND SMALL, JUST WAITING TO BE SOLVED, AND SURPRISES GALORE, WHEN WE DARE TO SIMPLY ASK QUESTIONS.

THAT'S THE CURIOSITY DESK.

LIKE AND SUBSCRIBE.

AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY, LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU ARE CURIOUS ABOUT BECAUSE, HEY, I MIGHT JUST LOOK INTO IT FOR YOU.

I'M EDWARD B. HERWICK III.

STAY CURIOUS OUT THERE.

♪♪ Captioned by Me