>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & COMPANY."

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

A HISTORIC DAY AT THE SUPREME COURT.

CAN COLORADO KICK TRUMP OFF THE BALLOT?

A LOOK AT THE ARGUMENTS WITH POLITICAL COMMENTATOR JOHN AVLON.

>>> THEN -- >> WHAT THEY'RE TELLING US IS THINGS ARE GOING TO GET A LOT WORSE AND CAUSE GREAT HAVOC.

BUT THERE IS GREAT HOPE.

>> FORMER VICE PRESIDENT AL GORE JOINS ME WITH A FRANK LOOK AT THE CLIMATE CRISIS.

AND -- >>> THERE IS NOT REALLY ANYTHING RADICAL ABOUT IT EXCEPT FOR THE CASTING.

>> WELCOME TO "KIM'S CONVENIENCE."

I SPEAK TO THE CREATOR OF THE AWARD-WINNING DRAMA THAT INSPIRED THE NETFLIX HIT.

>>> PLUS -- >> LOOK AT THE WALLS OVER THERE.

NOW I'M STARTING TO GET VERY EXCITED.

>> WORLD FAMOUS CLIMBER ALEX HONNOLD TALKS TO HARI SREENIVASAN ABOUT TACKLING THE UNTOUCHED CORNERS OF THE ARCTIC.

♪♪ >>> "AMANPOUR & COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT JIM ATWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS CANDACE KING WEIR THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS MARK J. BLECHNER THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION SETON J. MELVIN CHARLES ROSENBLUM KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS, AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

NOT SINCE BUSH V GORE IN 2000 HAS THE SUPREME COURT HAD BEFORE IT SUCH A MONUMENTAL ELECTION-RELATED CASE.

TODAY THE JUSTICES HEARD ARGUMENTS ON THIS KEY QUESTION.

CAN COLORADO KICK TRUMP OFF THE BALLOT FOR HIS ROLE IN THE JANUARY 6th INSURRECTION, AS THE STATE SUPREME COURT HAS ALREADY RULED.

THE ANSWER HAS THE POTENTIAL TO TOTALLY UPEND THE 2024 ELECTION.

TAKE A LISTEN TO THIS EXCHANGE BETWEEN TRUMP'S LAWYER JONATHAN MITCHELL AND JUSTICE KETANJI BROWN JACKSON.

>> WHAT WE SAID IN OUR OPENING BRIEF IS PRESIDENT TRUMP DID NOT ENGAGE IN ANY ACT THAT CAN PLAUSIBLY BE CHARACTERIZED AS AN INSURRECTION.

>> WHAT IS YOUR ARGUMENT?

THAT IT'S NOT?

YOUR ABRIEF SAYS IT WASN'T BECAUSE I THINK YOU SAY IT DID NOT INVOLVE AN ORGANIZED ATTEMPT TO OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT.

>> THAT'S ONE OF MANY REASONS.

FOR AN INSURRECTION, THERE NEEDS TO BE AN ORGANIZED EFFORT TO OVERFLOW THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES THROUGH GIEFT.

>> GOVERNMENT.

>> WE DIDN'T SEE IT'S AN EFFORT TO OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT EITHER, JUSTICE JACKSON.

>> SO HERE TO DISCUSS IS POLITICAL ANALYST JOHN AVLON.

WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM, JOHN.

YOU MUST HAVE BEEN WATCHING ALL THE HEARING.

IT IS NOW ADJOURNED.

IT'S OVER.

THERE'S SOME TALK THAT IT APPEARED THE JUSTICES WERE SKEPTICAL OF COLORADO'S CASE.

HOW DID YOU READ IT?

>> LOOK, IT CERTAINLY IN LISTENING TO THE OVER TWO HOURS YOU HEARD A PERSISTENT STRAIN OF SKEPTICISM.

I THINK JUSTICES LOOKING FOR AN OFFRAMP.

THIS IS OBVIOUSLY AN ISSUE THAT DOES DESERVE A HEARING IN THE SUPREME COURT.

AND I THINK WHAT NEEDS TO BE SEPARATED IS THE POLITICS OF THE, SOME OF WHICH ARE PARTISAN, THE PRACTICALITY OF WHAT'S BEING DONE BY COLORADO, AND THEN THE INTENT OF THE LANGUAGE THAT'S WRITTEN IN THE U.S. CONSTITUTION, 14th AMENDMENT, SECTION 3.

ALL THOSE THINGS ARE INTENTION, FRANKLY.

I THINK FROM A PRACTICAL STANDPOINT, ESPECIALLY THE QUESTION OF WHETHER ONE STATE CAN BLOCK A PRESIDENT, A PERSON FROM APPEARING ON THE BALLOT, THAT GETS VERY DICEY BECAUSE 50 DIFFERENT STANDARDS, POTENTIALLY 50 DIFFERENT STATES.

THIS NEEDS TO BE FEDERALIZED.

THAT'S WHY IT'S IN THE CONSTITUTION.

POLITICALLY, WE'LL SEE HOW IT BREAKS DOWN.

CLEARLY CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS WOULD LIKE TO HAVE SOME DEGREE OF BIPARTISANSHIP.

I WOULD SUGGEST STUDYING THIS INTENSELY PARTLY AS A RESULT OF MY BOOK ON LINCOLN AND THE POST CIVIL WAR PERIOD THAT THE LANGUAGE AND N THE CONSTITUTION IS CLEAR.

ITS IMPLICATION IS VAGUE, AND WE ONLY HAVE THAT PRECEDENT.

BUT TO ARGUE THAT THIS WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE PROSPECTIVE, IT WAS ONLY SUPPOSED TO BE RETROSPECT ALTERNATIVE THE CIVIL WAR DOES NOT FIT THE CLEAR INTENT AND STATEMENTS AROUND THE RATIFICATION DEBATE ABOUT THIS AMENDMENT.

>> YOU SAY THAT LET ME JUST INTERRUPT YOU.

YOU SAY THAT, BUT THERE IS NO WORD "PRESIDENT" IN SECTION 3.

AND THAT'S WHAT HIS LAWYERS AND HIS SIDE ARE HANGING ON TO.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

HOWEVER, IF YOU GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE RATIFICATION DEBATES AROUND THIS SPECIFIC AMENDMENT, ONE SENATOR SAID TO ANOTHER, WHY IS THE PRESIDENT'S NAME NOT ENUMERATED?

AND THE OTHER SENATOR REPLIED IN REALTIME, THE PRESIDENT IS INCLUDED BECAUSE HE IS AN OFFICER OF THE UNITED STATES.

SO THAT SEEMS TO BE A PARTICULARLY THIN READ TO HANG ON ARGUMENT ON, IF YOU ACTUALLY TAKE THE TROUBLE OF LOOKING AT THE DEBATES AND THE UNDERSTANDING OF ITS TIME, WHICH IS ALLEGEDLY WHAT ORIGINALISTS AND TEXTUALISTS WOULD DO.

THAT ARGUMENT DOESN'T HOLD WATER IT SEEMS TO ME, BASED ON THE CONVERSATIONS AROUND THE ORIGINAL RATIFICATION OF THIS AMENDMENT.

>> IT'S REALLY INTERESTING BECAUSE HIS SIDE SAID THE PRESIDENT IS NOT AN OFFICER OF THE UNITED STATES.

AND YET THAT LANGUAGE IS IN SECTION 3.

AND HIS OWN LAWYER, TRUMP'S LAWYER ALSO ARGUED THAT WHAT HAPPENED WAS NOT AN INSURRECTION ON JANUARY 6th.

HERE IS A LITTLE BIT OF THE EXCHANGE.

LET'S JUST LISTEN.

>> PRESIDENT TRUMP DID NOT ENGAGE IN ANY ACT THAT CAN PLAUSIBLY BE CHARACTERIZED AS INSURRECTION.

>> SO WHY WOULD IT NOT BE AN INSURRECTION?

WHAT IS YOUR ARGUMENT THAT IT'S NOT?

YOUR APPLY BRIEF SAYS IT WASN'T BECAUSE I THINK YOU SAY IT DID NOT INVOLVE AN ORGANIZED ATTEMPT TO OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT.

>> THAT'S ONE OF MANY REASONS.

>> SO WE'RE GOING TO DUMP OUT OF THAT, BECAUSE ACTUALLY, WE DID PLAY IT A LITTLE EARLIER IN THE INTRODUCTION.

SO THEY'RE SAYING IT'S NOT AN INSURRECTION, AND THE PRESIDENT WASN'T INVOLVED.

THERE ARE OTHERS WHO SAY THAT LOOK AT THE ENTIRE LANGUAGE AROUND SECTION 3.

IT DOESN'T JUST SAY, YOU KNOW, CONDUCTED IT, BUT THERE IS A WHOLE SECOND PART OF THAT, AIDED AND ABETTED, DIDN'T STOP, ET CETERA.

>> THAT'S THE KEY POINT, RIGHT.

YOU MAY ARGUE THAT DONALD TRUMP DID NOT ENGAGE IN AN INSURRECTION.

HE DID NOT MARCH ON THE CAPITOL ON JANUARY 6th WITH THE VIOLENT MOB OF HIS SUPPORTERS.

BUT THE LANGUAGE, AS YOU POINT OUT IN THE 14th AMENDMENT SECTION 3 SAY GIVE AID OR COMFORT TO INSURRECTION OR REBELLION.

AID OR COMFORT TO.

NOW THE CRIMINAL STATUTE FIRST EDITION INCLUDES INCITEMENT OF AN INSURRECTION, WHICH WAS ACTUALLY PART OF THE LANGUAGE OF HIS SECOND IMPEACHMENT, WHICH PASSED MAJORITIES IN BOTH THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE, THOUGH HE WAS NOT CONVICTED IN THE SENATE.

BUT I FIND PARTICULARLY TROUBLING AND SLIGHTLY ABSURD THE ARGUMENT THAT THIS DOES NOT APPLY, OVERTHROWING THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES BY VIOLENCE.

OKAY.

SO A VIOLENT MOB WAS DEPLOYED TO THE CAPITOL WITH SOME DEGREE OF COORDINATION AMONG HIS SUPPORTERS AND VARIOUS GROUPS, DESIGNED TO NOT JUST OBSTRUCT AN OFFICIAL PROCEEDING, BUT TO STOP THE OFFICIAL CERTIFICATION OF THE BALLOTS AFTER AN ELECTION.

AND OVERTHROW OF THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT SIMPLY AN ORGANIZED ARMY MARCHING ON THE WHITE HOUSE.

OVERTHROWING OUR SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT INVOLVES STOPPING THE PROCESSING OF A FAIR AND FREE ELECTION, ACCORDING TO CONSTITUTIONAL PROCESS.

AND IT'S VERY CLEAR THAT THAT'S WHAT DONALD TRUMP AND HIS AIDES ENGAGED IN.

THEY TRIED TO OVERTHROW AN ELECTION IN OUR DEMOCRACY THAT CONTRADICTS AND CUTS TO THE CORE OF OUR CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC.

SO LET'S NOT GET TOO CUTE ABOUT WHAT THESE WORDS MEAN.

IF YOU TRY TO OVERTHROW OUR SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT, YOU'RE TRYING TO OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT.

>> AND OBVIOUSLY, THERE WAS A DEATH.

THERE WERE INJURIES.

AND THE PRESIDENT AND HIS MAGA STILL DENY THE RESULT OF THAT ELECTION.

SO THAT IS ALSO A FACT OVER THE LAST, YOU KNOW, SEVERAL YEARS, SINCE THAT ELECTION.

BUT LET'S NOT GET TOO CUTE, YOU SAY.

SO I WANT TO ASK YOU WHY IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE IS A LOT OF CUTE GOING ON, A LOT OF SEMI-MATIC DISCUSSION, A LOT OF TRYING TO THREAD A NEEDLE AS YOU SAID, TRYING TO REACH SOME KIND OF BIPARTISAN DEAL, LOOK FOR AN OFFRAMP.

I WONDER WHAT YOU MAKE OF HILLARY CLINTON.

HE WAS FAMOUSLY FACED OFF AGAINST HIM, AND SHE HAD THINGS TO SAY ON MSNBC LAST NIGHT.

TAKE A LISTEN.

>> THEY CAN COME UP WITH SOME OUT FOR TRUMP.

BUT IF THEY WANT TO BE TRUE TO THEIR SO-CALLED ORIGINALIST INTERPRETATION, THEN I THINK THEY HAVE TO FIND THAT SECTION 3 APPLIES TO PEOPLE WHO FOMENT AND PARTICIPATE IN INSURRECTIONS, BUT THE REMEDY LIES IN THE STATES, WHICH WOULD BE KIND OF A FAIR WAY OF KIND OF PARSING THIS.

.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> I THINK SHE IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ABOUT THE ORIGINALIST AND TEXTUALIST STATEMENT.

YOU CAN'T TAKE THE CONSTITUTION A LA CARTE.

THE CONSTITUTION SAYS WHAT IT SAYS.

THE CONSTITUTION APPLIES TO EVERYONE, EVERY STATE, EVERY INDIVIDUAL.

AND THAT'S WHY -- I BEGAN TO ARGUE OR POINT OUT THE 14th AMENDMENT, SECTION 3 COULD APPLY IN SPRING OF 2021 ON AIR AT CNN IN MY REALITY CHECK SEGMENTS.

YOU CAN'T IGNORE THAT STATES, EVEN IF IT'S INCONVENIENT POLITICALLY OR PRACTICALLY TO DO SO.

NOW WHAT THEY COULD SAY WITH CREDIBILITY, AND THIS IS PART OF PERHAPS THE ATTEMPT TO FIND COMMON GROUND TO DEPOLITICIZE THE COURT IS WELL, HE HASN'T BEEN OFFICIALLY CHARGED WITH OR CONVICTED INSURRECTION.

HE IS CHARGED WITH CONSPIRACY TO DEFRAUD THE UNITED STATES BY JACK SMITH, AND THAT'S PART OF UNDERMINING FAITH AND CONFIDENCE IN OUR SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT, OUR DEMOCRACY, WHICH IS A SERIOUS THING.

BUT HE WAS NOT CHARGED WITH INSURRECTION.

FINE.

MAYBE THAT'S THE ARGUMENT.

THIS IS A CREDIBLE ONE, BECAUSE ABRAHAM LINCOLN HIMSELF IN 1860 DIDN'T APPEAR ON THE BALLOTS IN THE DEEP SOUTH.

I THINK YOU HAVE A NATIONAL ELECTION AND STATES PULLING PEOPLE FOR VARIOUS REASONS, THAT'S A TRICKY, SLIPPERY SLOPE.

HOWEVER, THE CONSTITUTION SAYS WHAT IT SAYS.

AND THE CONSTITUTION SAYS THAT IF YOU'VE ENGAGED IN OR AIDED OR ABEDDED AN INSURRECTION OR REBELLION, THAT'S A DISQUALIFICATION AS REAL AS AGE OR COUNTRY OF BIRTH.

AND I'LL SAY THIS SHOULDN'T BE PARTISAN.

CONSERVATIVE JUDGE MICHAEL LUTTIG, TWO FEDERALIST SOCIETY LEGAL SCHOLARS TOOK A DEEP, DEEP LOOK AT THIS WITHOUT ANY PRECONCEIVED NOTION AND SAID THIS IS SELF-EXECUTING.

IT DOES APPLY.

IT SAYS WHAT IT SAYS.

AND THEREFORE, IF YOU'RE GOING TO BE TRUE TO THE CONSTITUTION, YOU NEED TO APPLY THIS.

IF YOU TRY TO KICK THE CAN AND SAY WELL, YOU KNOW, LET'S WAIT UNTIL COURT CASES OR WHETHER THE QUESTION OF INSURRECTION IS ADJUDICATED, IF HE IS REELECTED PRESIDENT WHILE LOSING THE POPULAR VOTE, POSSIBLY, THEN IT WOULD SEEM THAT WE'RE BACK IN THAT CATEGORY OF LLC LEGAL OPINIONS WHERE ONCE HE TAKES THE OATH, HE IS PRESIDENT.

I WOULD JUST SAY THERE IS SOMETIMES A RELUCTANCE TO HOLD DONALD TRUMP ACCOUNTABLE BECAUSE HE KEEPS PRESSING FORWARD, BECAUSE HE EFFECTIVELY THREATENS OUR INSTITUTIONS AND SAY IF YOU HOLD ME ACCOUNTABLE, MY SUPPORTERS WILL START WRITING AND PROTESTING, AND IT WILL BE DESTRUCTIVE AND DESTAIBINGIZING TO SOCIETY, WHICH IS THE ARGUMENT THEY WERE USING THROUGH JANUARY 6th, THE ACTIONS THAT WERE TAKEN ON JANUARY 6th, AND THEN ATTEMPTS TO WRIGGLE OUT OF ACCOUNTABILITY FOR JANUARY 6th.

THAT'S A VERY DANGEROUS GAME TO START PLAYING.

BY THE LAW, READ THE CONSTITUTION AS IT'S WRITTEN.

>> WE HAVE VERY LITTLE TIME.

BUT ONE ANALYST IN "THE TIMES" HAS WRITTEN "WHATEVER COMES OUT OF THE SUPREME COURT, SHOULDN'T BOTH MAJOR PARTIES INSIST ON PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES FOR WHOM SUCH QUESTIONS ARE NOT EVEN REMOTELY AN ISSUE?"

>> YES, THEY SHOULD.

IT SHOULD SAY IF YOU'VE BEEN INDICTED UNDER FELONY OR CONVICTED OF FELONY, YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT.

BUT THIS OUTPACES OUR LAW, EVEN THOUGH IT'S WRITTEN IN THE CONSTITUTION.

APPLY THE LAWS, APPLY HISTORY, BE GUIDED BY THE CONSTITUTION TO DEFEND A DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC.

>> JOHN AVLON, ALWAYS GOOD TO HAVE YOU ON THIS PROGRAM.

>>> AND NOW, SOME MAJOR CLIMATE NEWS TODAY.

THE WORLD HAS BEEN TEMPORARILY PUSHED OVER THE CRITICAL 1.5 DEGREES CENTIGRADE MARK THANKS TO 2023 BEING THE HOTTEST YEAR ON RECORD.

IN 2024, CLIMATE NEWS LOOKS EVER BLEAKER.

AND TACKLING THE CRISIS IS TOO OFTEN TO PUSH DOWN THE AGENDA BY WARS AND POLITICAL FIGHTS.

BUT THERE ARE SOME GREEN SHOOTS OF HOPE EMERGING, A GREEN INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION, AS BILL WEIR NOW REPORTS.

>> Reporter: THESE DAYS YOU CAN FEEL AS IF SOME PART OF THE PLANET IS ALWAYS BURNING OR FLOODING OR BOTH IN SUCCESSION.

BUT LESS OBVIOUS IS THE CLEAN INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION CRANKING UP AROUND THE WORLD, DRIVEN AS MUCH BY PROFITS AS POLITICS.

>> MY GOODNESS.

>> Reporter: WIND AND SUN ENERGY IS NOW SO CHEAP, THE DEEP RED STATE OF TEXAS CREATES MORE RENEWABLE ENERGY THAN CALIFORNIA.

AND WITH HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF INVESTMENT DOLLARS POURING INTO CLEAN TECH, START-UPS LIKE AN TORA HOPE REVOLUTIONARY THERMAL BATTERIES LIKE THIS WILL POWER ENTIRE FACTORIES AND MOVE ENTIRE INDUSTRIES TO THE SUN AND WIND BELTS.

>> 1600 DEGREES CELSIUS.

SO THIS IS HOTTER THAN THE MELTING POINT OF STEEL, AND IT'S JUST A COUPLE OF FEET INSIDE THAT SHELL.

>> I HAVE A HARD TIME EXPLAINING TO MY KIDS WHAT NUCLEAR FUSION IS.

BUT THIS JUST A HOT ROCK IN A BOX.

>> EXACTLY.

>> Reporter: IN SPEED AND SCALE, CHINA IS LEADING THE TRANSITION AT A STAGGERING PACE, SPENDING ALMOST AS MUCH IN CLEAN ENERGY LAST YEAR AS THE ENTIRE WORLD INVESTED IN FOSSIL FUELS.

BUT SCIENCE SAYS IT'S NOT ENOUGH JUST TO ADD CLEAN ENERGY, IT MUST REPLACE THE DIRTY OLD KIND.

AND SINCE METHANE HAS OVER 80 TIMES THE PLANET COOKING POWER OF CARBON DIOXIDE IN THE NEAR TERM, PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN HALTED THE EXPANSION OF MASSIVE LIQUEFIED NATURAL GAS TERMINALS IN LOUISIANA, UNTIL THE CLIMATE COSTS CAN BE BETTER UNDERSTOOD.

SETTING UP STARK REELECTION REMATCH WITH THE MAN ONE EXPERT CALLS A CLIMATE ARSONIST.

>> THEIR WINDMILLS ARE CAUSING WHALES TO DIE IN NUMBERS NEVER SEEN BEFORE.

NOBODY DOES ANYTHING ABOUT THAT.

>> Reporter: BUT THE LAWS OF PHYSICS DO NOT PAUSE FOR ELECTIONS, AND THE STATE OF MAINE IS AMONG THOSE PLACES ALREADY REELING WITH THE CHANGES.

>> SO THIS IS WHAT THAT WAS?

>> YEAH.

>> THAT WHOLE BUILDING.

>> NO, WAY.

THAT'S WHAT'S LEFT OF IT.

>> JUST GENERATIONS AND GENERATIONS OF STUFF.

THERE IS A LOT OF MEMORY DOWN THERE.

>> Reporter: TWO FREAKISH JANUARY STORMS DEVASTATED THE ICONIC LOBSTER AND FISHING COMMUNITIES ALREADY SUFFERING EFFECTS OF WARMER SEAS.

BUT MAINE IS ALSO LEANING INTO ADAPTATION AND MITIGATION WITH GUSTO.

ACCORDING TO THE NONPROFIT REWIRING AMERICA, MAINERS ARE REPLACING OLD FURNACES WITH MORE EFFICIENT HEAT PUMPS AT A RATE THREE TIMES FASTER THAN THE U.S. AVERAGE.

THEIR CLIMATE ACTION PLAN IS AMONG THE MOST ROBUST IN THE NATION.

SO WE'RE KEEPING EYES ON PLACES LIKE THIS TO SEE HOY PEOPLE ARE ADJUSTING TO THIS NEW ABNORMAL.

>> BILL WEIR REPORTING THERE.

NOW MY NEXT GUEST IS THE FORMER VICE PRESIDENT AL GORE, WHO HAD HIS OWN TANG WELL THE SUPREME COURT AS IT AWARDED THE 2000 ELECTION TO GEORGE BUSH.

FORMER VICE PRESIDENT AL GORE WAS ONE OF THE FIRST PUBLIC FIGURES TO SOUND THE ALARM BELLS ON CLIMATE CHANGE WITH HIS OSCAR-WINNING FILM "AN INCONVIENT TRUTH" OUT NEARLY 20 YEARS AGO.

IN THIS INTERVIEW BEFORE TODAY'S TRUMP COURT CASE, I ASK GORE HOW HE ASSESSES THE GRASSROOT SOLUTIONS TO THE CLIMATE CRISIS.

>> IT'S TRICKY TO BALANCE THE DIRE WARNINGS THAT THE SCIENTISTS HAVE BEEN TRYING TO GET US TO LISTEN TO FOR A LONG TIME.

AND OF COURSE YOU KNOW THE SCIENTISTS TURNED OUT TO BE SPOT-ON CORRECT IN WHAT THEY WARNED ABOUT YEARS AGO.

SO WE SHOULD PAY MORE ATTENTION TO THE WARNINGS THEY'RE ISSUING NOW.

IF WE DO NOT SHARPLY REDUCE THE BURNING OF FOSSIL FUEL, THE CLIMATE CRISIS IS REALLY A FOSSIL FUEL CRISIS.

SO THAT'S 80% OF IT.

AND WE HAVE THIS MANDATE NOW TO TRANSITION AWAY FROM FOSSIL FUELS.

IF WE DO NOT DO THAT QUICKLY, WHAT THE SCIENTISTS ARE TELLING US IS THAT THINGS ARE GOING TO GET A LOT WORSE AND CAUSE GREAT HAVOC.

BUT THERE IS GREAT HOPE.

AND YOU HAVE TO BALANCE THE WARNINGS WITH THE FACT THAT THERE IS REALLY GOOD NEWS.

AS BILL SAYS, PEOPLE ARE WORKING ON IT.

BUT HERE IS SOME GOOD NEWS FROM THE SCIENTISTS AS WELL.

ONCE WE REACH TRUE NET ZERO AND STOP ADDING TO THE OVERBURDEN OF THIS HEAT-TRAPPING POLLUTION THAT WE'RE SPEWING INTO THE SKY EVERY DAY, THEN THE TEMPERATURES WILL STOP GOING UP ALMOST IMMEDIATELY WITH THE LACK OF AS LITTLE OF THREE TO FIVE YEARS.

AND IF WE STAY AT TRUE NET ZERO, THEN HALF OF ALL THE HUMAN-CAUSED GREEN HAS GAS POLLUTION WILL COME OUT OF THE ATMOSPHERE IN AS LITTLE AS 25 TO 30 YEARS.

AND THE LONG SLOW HEALING PROCESS CAN BEGIN.

THE CHALLENGE, OF COURSE, IS TO SKOP USING FOSSIL FUELS AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.

BUT THERE AGAIN, THERE IS REALLY GOOD NEWS WITH THE SOLAR AND WIND AND BATTERIES AND ELECTRIC VEHICLES AND GREEN HYDROGEN IS COMING ON NOW, ONLINE.

AND REGENERATIVE AGRICULTURE, WHICH IS ONE OF THE REAL KEYS AND SUSTAINABLE FORESTRY AND CIRCULAR MANUFACTURING.

THE LIST IS A LONG ONE.

BUT INVESTORS AND BUSINESS LEADERS, PARTICULARLY IN THE CONSUMER FACING COMPANIES WHERE THEIR CUSTOMERS ARE DEMANDING IT.

AND BY THE WAY, THE EMPLOYEES IN THESE COMPANIES AND THE FAMILIES OF THE EXECUTIVES AND SOME OF THE EXECUTIVES THEMSELVES ARE SAYING LOOK, WE GOT TO BE A PART OF THE SOLUTION INSTEAD OF MAKING THE PROBLEM CONTINUALLY WORSE.

>> AND YOU'RE ALSO A POLITICIAN.

DO YOU AGREE THAT THIS WILL BE TOP OF MIND FOR VOTERS, CERTAINLY YOUNG VOTERS IN THE UNITED STATES AND AROUND THE REST OF THE WORLD?

>> WELL, I THINK THERE IS A BIG GENERATION GAP ON IT, AND YOUNG VOTERS, AND BY THE WAY, IN THE U.S., YOUNG VOTERS IN BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES IN LARGE MAJORITIES ARE DEMANDING ACTION ON THIS.

BUT AS YOU KNOW, CHRISTIANE, THE POLITICS OF CLIMATE HAVE FOR DECADES BEEN VERY CHALLENGING BECAUSE IT IS BY NATURE IS GLOBAL CHALLENGE.

AND WE'RE NOT ALWAYS USED TO DEALING WITH THAT KIND OF CRISIS.

IT PLAYS OUT OVER TIME PERIODS THAT ARE A LITTLE BIT LONGER THAN ELECTION CYCLES IN THE NEXT POLLING RESULTS.

AND AS A RESULT, IT HAS BEEN A CHALLENGE FOR BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES.

THE REPUBLICAN PARTY USED TO BE PART OF THE GROUP SEARCHING FOR SOLUTIONS.

BUT THAT -- WE'VE NOW GOT A POLARIZED SITUATION IN THE U.S.

WHICH IS TRAGIC AND UNNECESSARY.

BUT I'M HOPING THAT THE YOUNG PEOPLE YOU REFERRED TO, PARTICULARLY THE YOUNG REPUBLICANS ARE BEGINNING TO HEAL TO POLARIZING DIVIDE.

>> SO I JUST WANT TO ASK YOU, YOU KNOW, JAMES HANSEN, THE NASA EXPERT WHO WAS ONE OF THE FIRST ON CLIMATE WARNINGS HAS WARNED THAT UNLESS THERE IS SOME MASSIVELY RADICAL THING TO HAPPEN VERY SOON, THE MAGIC 1.5 DEGREES NUMBER WILL, YOU KNOW, WILL BE SURPASSED.

AND THERE SEEMS TO BE A STRUGGLE OVER THE EXPERTS OVER THAT.

WHERE DO YOU COME DOWN ON THAT?

>> WELL, I HAVE THE DEEPEST RESPECT FOR JIM HANSEN, AND ALSO FOR HIS COLLEAGUES TO HAVE A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT VIEW.

BUT THEY AGREE ON MOST THINGS.

YOU KNOW, HALF OF THE CALENDAR DAYS IN 2023 WERE ACTUALLY ABOVE 1.5.

AND IN NOVEMBER, THERE WERE TWO DAYS ABOVE A 2 DEGREE MARGIN ABOVE THE PREINDUSTRIAL TEMPERATURE.

SO YES, WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF TIME TO SOLVE THIS IN TIME.

AND WE'RE RUNNING SOME UNACCEPTABLY HIGH RISKS WITH LARGE GLOBAL SYSTEMS THAT ARE IMPORTANT FOR THE FLOURISHING OF HUMANITY THAT ARE NOW BEING DESTABILIZED.

SO THE SOONER THE BETTER.

THE ISSUE YOU'RE REFERRING TO IS OVER HOW SENSITIVE THE CLIMATE IS TO MORE AND MORE GREENHOUSE GAS POLLUTION.

ULTIMATELY, THEY AGREE ON FAR MORE THAN THEY DISAGREE.

THEY'RE ALL SAYING THE SAME THING.

WE GOT TO SWITCH AWAY FROM FOSSIL FUELS AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE AND STOP USING THE SKY AS AN OPEN SEWER.

THAT'S THE BASIC PROBLEM.

WE'RE PUTTING 162 MILLION TONS UP THERE EVERY DAY.

AND THE ACCUMULATED AMOUNT, IT STAYS ON AVERAGE, EACH MOLECULE, FOR ABOUT 100 YEARS.

AND THE ACCUMULATED AMOUNT TODAY, CHRISTIANE, IS TRAPPING AS MUCH EXTRA HEAT AS WOULD BE RELEASED BY 750,000 HIROSHIMA CLASS OPPENHEIMER ERA ATOMIC BOMBS EXPLODING ON THE EARTH EVERY SINGLE DAY.

THAT'S INSANE FOR US TO ALLOW THAT TO CONTINUE, PARTICULARLY WHEN WE HAVE THE ALTERNATIVES AVAILABLE NOW THAT ARE CHEAPER, CLEANER, CREATE THREE TIMES AS MANY JOBS PER DOLLAR INVESTED.

ALL WE HAVE TO DO REALLY IS TO OVERCOME THE POLITICAL POWER AND INFLUENCE OF THE FOSSIL FUEL COMPANIES, WHICH YOU HAVE BEEN TRYING TO PERSUADE PEOPLE THIS IS NOT SUCH A BIG DEAL, AND THEY'RE TRYING TO EXTEND THEIR BUSINESS PLAN, AND THE PETRO STATES PUT UP A LOT OF RESISTANCE IN THE INTERNATIONAL NEGOTIATIONS.

WE ARE GETTING THERE.

AND WE WILL SOLVE THIS.

PEOPLE SHOULD BE OF GOOD HOPE ON THIS.

BUT THE QUESTION IS, WILL WE SOLVE IT IN TIME?

WE HAVE TO SPEED UP THIS PROCESS.

>> VICE PRESIDENT AL GORE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE.

>>> FROM THE DRAMA OF THIS CLIMATE CRISIS, WE TURN NEXT TO THEATER WHERE A CORNER SHOP HAS LANDED ON STAGE IN LONDON.

IT'S NOT JUST ANY STORE, IT'S "KIM'S CONVENIENCE," PERFORMING SELLOUT SHOWS, THE KOREAN CANADIAN PLAY THAT INSPIRED THE SITCOM WHO RETURNS WITH PLAY RIGHT INS CHOI WHO CALLED IT A LOVE LETTER TO FIRST GENERATION IMMIGRANTS IN CANADA.

TAKING THE LEAD ROLE OF THE FATHER FIGURE, MR. KIM.

I SAT DOWN WITH HIM AND CAST MEMBERS, JENNIFER KIM AND MILES MITCHELL ON THEIR SET THIS WEEK TO DISCUSS WHY THIS SLICE OF LIFE COMEDY RESONATES ACROSS CULTURES.

INS CHOI, JENNIFER KIM, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

I START WITH YOU, OBVIOUSLY.

YOU'RE THE CREATOR OF THIS, OF THIS PERFORMANCE.

WAS THERE SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR OWN LIFE?

IS THIS YOUR STORY?

>> MY DAD WAS A PASTOR OF A CHURCH IN TORONTO, A KOREAN CHURCH.

MY DAD DIDN'T OWN A STORE.

BUT MY UNCLE DID.

AND HIS STORE'S NAME WAS KIM'S GROCER.

SO THAT'S KIND OF THE INSPIRATION FOR "KIM'S CONVENIENCE."

YOU DRAW A NAME, AND IT CAN DRAW A LINE TO SOMEBODY IN MY LIFE IT STEMS FROM.

>> YOU DID THE PLAY IN CANADA FIRST ON THE FRINGE.

AND YOU TWO ARE NOT CANADIAN.

WHAT DID YOU GUYS KNOW ABOUT THIS STORY, OR EVEN ABOUT THE KOREAN IMMIGRANT SPECIOUS BEFORE YOU TOOK ON THESE ROLES?

JANET -- NOT JANET, JENNIFER.

YOU DO A GOOD JOB.

>> I AM KOREAN-AMERICAN.

SO I COME FROM -- I SO WAS BORN IN KOREA, AND I MOVED TO CALIFORNIA WITH MY PARENTS.

AND SO THEY'VE BECOME SORT OF FIRST GENERATION IMMIGRANTS.

AND I SORT OF BECAME A JANET FOR THEM, BECAUSE -- BECAUSE THEY HAD LANGUAGE BARRIERS THAT THEY WERE WORKING THROUGH AS THEY WERE STARTING THEIR BUSINESS.

EVEN IF THEY WANTED TO MAKE AN APPOINTMENT FOR HOSPITAL, YOU KNOW, DOCTORS VISIT, THEN THEY WOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH ME.

AND SO I VERY MUCH UNDERSTAND SORT OF THAT IMMIGRANT CHRISTINE LIFE, KIND OF FIRSTHAND.

THE STORY IS QUITE PERSONAL TO ME, ACTUALLY, YEAH.

MY PARENTS ALSO HAD SMALL FAMILY BUSINESS THAT ME AND MY BROTHER WERE CHILD LABORERS.

[ LAUGHTER ] >> THIS IS IN THE UNITED STATES?

>> YES, YES, YES.

>> MILES, WHAT DID YOU KNOW ABOUT THIS EXPERIENCE?

I MEAN YOU OBVIOUSLY A LONG TIME IMMIGRANT FAMILY TO THE UK.

>> YEAH.

>> WHERE IS YOUR ORIGIN?

>> YEAH, MY GRANDPARENTS ARE FROM JAMAICA.

STRANGELY, THOUGH, A LOT OF PARALLELS WITH IMMIGRANT EXPERIENCE OF GRANDPARENTS AND LEGACY AND JUST RAISING YOUR CHILDREN IN A NEW COUNTRY, REALLY.

SO WHAT MY -- QUITE SEPARATE, FIRST, THROUGHOUT THE REHEARSAL, WE STARTED TO JOIN THE DOTS, AND I SAW A LOT MORE PARALLELS THAT WAS GREAT EDUCATION FOR ME.

>> INS, THIS WAS CANADA'S FIRST ASIA-LED CAST AND STORY ON ITS NATIONAL CBC BROADCAST.

THIS WAS A BIG DEAL.

IT'S ACTUALLY QUITE RADICAL.

AND I DON'T KNOW, FOR INSTANCE, YOU JUST TALK -- YOU'RE TALKING TO ME WITH A PERFECTLY CANADIAN ACCENT.

BUT MR. AND MRS. KIM SPEAK WITH ALMOST A PARODIED OR AN OLD SCHOOL KOREAN ACCENT.

>> THERE IS NOT REALLY ANYTHING RADICAL ABOUT IT EXCEPT FOR THE CASTING AND THE STORYTELLING.

>> DESCRIBE IT.

>> YEAH, I GUESS IT WAS THE FIRST -- I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT.

BUT I GUESS IT WAS THE FIRST TIME A KOREAN FAMILY WAS ON STAGE WITH THEIR PARENTS, AND THE PARENTS WERE PORTRAYED REALISTICALLY, LIKE MY PARENTS, LIKE JEN'S PARENTS, NOT MILES' PARENTS, BUT MANY ASIAN PARENTS, MANY KOREAN PARENTS IN TORONTO, ACROSS CANADA AND THE STATES AND PROBABLY HERE TOO.

>> DO YOU THINK CANADA WAS MORE RECEIPTICHIVE TO SOME OF THE FUNNY BUT EDGY JOKES YOU MAKE.

FOR INSTANCE, IN THE NETFLIX SERIES, THE VERY FIRST OPENING EPISODE HAS A JOKE ABOUT A GAY COUPLE AND THE GAY PRIDE.

>> THERE IS A LOT OF HUMOR.

AND SOME OF THE HUMOR IS KIND OF WALKS THAT LINE OF -- IN MY OPINION, IT'S BEING REAL.

IT'S BEING REAL.

I THINK THERE IS A TENDENCY FOR LIKE MAINSTREAM TO SEE A KOREAN FAMILY OR AN ASIAN FAMILY AND WANT TO VIEW THEM WITH ALL WHOLESOME, GOOD MORALS, THE MODEL MINORITY, YOU KNOW, BUT FROM THE INSIDE, WE'RE FULL OF WARTS AND FAULTS, AND THERE IS A LOT OF RACISM WITHIN CULTURES AMONGST ASIANS EVEN.

SO IN THE PLAY, I WANTED TO BRING OUT -- I WANTED TO TELL A REAL STORY.

>> MILES, LET ME ASK YOU.

I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THERE WAS A SHARP INTAKE OF BREATH AT ANY OF THE PERFORMANCES WHEN ONE OF YOUR SCENES WHEN YOU'RE PLAYING A GUY COMING IN, YOU KNOW, BOMBER JACKET, WANT TO BUY SOMETHING.

>> JEAN JACKET.

>> JEAN JACKET.

THAT CRUCIAL.

>> OKAY.

TELL ME WHY.

>> BECAUSE MR. KIM HAS A THEORY.

AND IF YOU COME SEE THE PLAY, THEN YOU'LL FIND OUT.

>> YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SAY.

>> IT'S NOT A BOMBER JACKET.

>> I AM VERY GLAD YOU CORRECTED ME.

MILES, STEAL, NO STEAL.

SO BASICALLY, THE GROCERY OWNER, NICE GUY IS BASICALLY SAYING TO HIS DAUGHTER JANET, WHO IS HELPING IN THE STORE, LOOK AT THAT.

>> YEAH.

>> HERE COMES -- AND HE DOESN'T SAY BLACK.

SHE SAYS "BECAUSE HE'S BLACK?"

AND STEAL, NO STEAL.

HE IS ASKING HER TO JUDGE WHETHER YOUR CHARACTER IS GOING TO STEAL THAT IS EDGY.

DID YOU FEEL THAT?

>> YEAH, I THINK THE WRITING NAVIGATES A REALLY WARPED AND EDGY LOGIC IN A REALLY SMART WAY.

AND I JUST BURST OUT LAUGHING WHEN I FIRST READ IT.

I'VE HAD LOTS OF FRIENDS AND HAD A REALLY DIVERSE AUDIENCE HERE THAT HAVE FOUND THAT SCENE LIKE A MEMORABLE HIGHLIGHT BECAUSE OF ITS GENIUS WRITING.

>> SO THAT'S REALLY GOOD.

THAT'S AN ADVANCE.

BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW HOW IT WOULD GO DOWN IN NEW YORK, FOR INSTANCE.

>> YEAH.

I KNOW THE HISTORY OF THE PLAY, HOW IT'S KIND OF TOWARD CANADA IN PARTICULAR.

THERE IS A STRONG WEST INDIAN BACKGROUND IN CANADA, AND IT'S DIVERSE AS WELL.

SO IT'S GONE THROUGH WORKSHOPS.

SO IT'S GONE THROUGH A LOT TO GET HERE AS WELL.

SO I DID GO OH, MY GOSH, WHAT IS THIS?

BUT THEN I REALIZED WHEN WE GOT TO THE END, JUST EXACTLY WHAT IT WAS.

>> IT HAS A REALLY IDENTIFIABLE AND ACCESSIBLE STORY OF A GENERATION GAP.

THAT'S UNIVERSAL, ISN'T IT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> WHEN I FIRST WROTE IT, I KNEW THAT SECOND GENERATION KOREANS LIKE MY SISTER AND MY COUSINS WOULD LOVE IT BECAUSE I'M KIND OF MAKING FUN OF IT, A LITTLE BIT.

AND I KNEW THE PARENTS WOULD LOVE IT.

AND I KNEW THAT ASIANS WOULD LOVE IT.

BUT THEN IT JUST KEPT -- BLACK FAMILIES WOULD COME, ASIAN FAMILIES, SOUTHEAST ASIAN FAMILIES WOULD.

EVEN WHITE FAMILIES WOULD BE THAT'S LIKE MY DAD.

THIS IS LIKE A ROMANIAN FAMILY OR A JEWISH FAMILY, THAT'S JUST LIKE MY MOM, AND I HAD THAT EXACT CONVERSATION WITH HER, BUT IN A DIFFERENT LANGUAGE.

>> AND I WONDER WHETHER ALSO THE RELIGIOUS ASPECT, YOU EXPLAINED HOW YOUR DAD WAS A PASTOR.

>> UH-HUH.

>> AND MANY, MANY, MANY IMMIGRANT FAMILIES, WHETHER THEY'RE FROM LATIN AMERICA OR ISLAMIC COUNTRIES, OR WHEREVER THEY COME FROM, THE PARENTS AND THE GRANDPARENTS TEND TO BE VERY RELIGIOUS, AND MAYBE THEY HANG ON TO THAT IN A NEW LAND.

AND THEIR KIDS MAY NOT BE SO MUCH.

BUT THIS SERIES IN THIS PLAY IS VERY MUCH ANCHORED IN THE CHURCH.

DOES THAT STRIKE YOU?

>> I THINK IT RINGS TRUE, ESPECIALLY IN KOREAN COMMUNITY BACK HOME WHERE I COME FROM IN CALIFORNIA.

THERE IS A VERY STRONG PRESENCE OF LIKE IMMIGRANTS HAVING FAITH.

AND I SORT OF GREW UP IN THE CHURCH AS WELL.

AND, YOU KNOW, WHEN I WAS LIVING IN KOREA AS WELL, LIKE WE HAD THE SAME SINGING CONTESTS AND FUNDRAISERS AND CONCERTS DURING CHRISTMAS WITH LIKE EVERYONE IS BRINGING OUT THEIR VIOLINS.

ONE IS ON PIANO.

AND IT'S JUST LIKE ALWAYS PART OF OUR LIFE.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHY WHEN I READ IT, IT WAS OH, THAT'S TRUE, THAT'S TRUE.

FOR ME IT WAS VERY IMMEDIATE AND AUTOMATIC THAT SOMETHING THAT I COULD CONNECT TO RIGHT AWAY, BECAUSE THAT WAS SORT OF MY CHILDHOOD.

I WAS HANGING AROUND, YOU KNOW, DOING THINGS AROUND CHURCH ALL THE TIME AS A CHILD.

AND THEN INTO TEENAGER YEARS.

AND THEN I WENT TO COLLEGE, AND THINGS CHANGE.

BUT, YEAH.

>> I THINK A LOT OF COMMUNITIES, IMMIGRANT COMMUNITIES LIKE CHURCH OR SYNAGOGUE OR TEMPLE, IT'S KIND OF THE COMMUNITY CENTER.

LIKE I KNOW IN TORONTO, AT LEAST, THE KOREAN CHURCH, OR THE KOREAN COMMUNITY, THAT WAS WHERE THE BEST FOOD WAS FOR A LONG TIME.

THAT'S WAS WHERE YOU LEARNED KOREAN LANGUAGE, TAEKWANDO.

SO I GO TO CHURCH ON SUNDAY.

AND THEN I'D HAVE SUNDAY SCHOOL.

BUT THEN I'D HAVE KOREAN SCHOOL.

AND THEN THERE WOULD BE -- >> YEP.

>> SOMETHING IN THE AFTERNOON.

AND THEN SOCCER TEAMS.

AND ET CETERA.

SO IT BECAME LIKE -- IT BECAME THE CENTER OF THE COMMUNITY AND THE KIND OF VEHICLE THROUGH WHICH CULTURE AND HERITAGE WAS PASSED DOWN.

NOW IN TORONTO NOT SO MUCH THE CHURCH BECAUSE IT'S BEEN -- THERE IS BIG KOREAN TOWNS, KOREATOWN NORTH AND KOREATOWN SOUTH AND CULTURE CENTERS THAT KIND OF TAKE THAT SPOT.

>> YOU PLAY FOUR CASE.

HOW DIFFICULT IS THAT IN RAPID SUCCESSION?

IT'S AN HOUR AND 15 MINUTES, THIS PLAY.

>> YEAH.

>> AND YOU'RE JUST CONSTANTLY ROLLING THROUGH IT IN DIFFERENT CASE, YEAH, THE QUICK CHANGES BACKSTAGE.

PEOPLE SAY YOU GET NERVOUS WHEN YOU GO ON STAGE?

BUT I'M MORE NERVOUS BACKSTAGE, MAKING SURE I'VE GOT MY PROPS.

MIXED ONE FOR THE OTHER, MAKE SURE I'VE GOT THE RIGHT MONEY IN THE POCKET TO PAY FOR CERTAIN ITEMS.

BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO GET THE CORRECT CHANGE AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

YEAH, GOT A LOT OF SUPPORT BACKSTAGE.

>> ACCENTS ARE ALL DIFFERENT.

>> ACCENTS AND TONE AS WELL.

JOBS, SOCIAL AND ALL THAT STUFF.

YEAH.

>> YOU KNOW, IN THIS PLAY, MR. KIM SAYS THE STORY, MY STORY.

SO HE IDENTIFIES THE STORE WITH HIMSELF.

BECAUSE NEITHER OF HIS KIDS, THE WAY YOU HAVE WRITTEN THEM, WANT TO BECOME STORE OWNERS, WANT TO TAKE OVER FROM HIM, HE IS KIND OF WORRIED ABOUT WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO HIM ONCE HIS LEGACY, WHAT DOES HE HAVE TO SHOW IN THE WORLD.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S A SPOILER ALERT OR WHAT -- [ LAUGHTER ] DOES THE SON COME BACK AND TAKE OVER?

>> I THINK IT IS A QUESTION FOR MANY IMMIGRANT PARENTS WHO TAKE UP AND DO WELL.

THEY COME TO ANOTHER COUNTRY, AND THEY DO WELL.

AND THEY WANT BETTER FOR THEIR KIDS.

BUT IN THIS FAMILY, THE KIDS DON'T LIVE UP TO THE EXPECTATION OF THEIR PARENTS.

AND SO IT'S.

>> BUT THEY'RE GOOD KIDS.

>> THEY'RE GOOD KIDS.

BUT CAREERWISE.

THEY'RE A PHOTOGRAPHER, AND THEY WORK AT A CAR RENTAL SHOP, WHICH IS FINE.

BUT THEY'RE NOT A DOCTOR OR A LAWYER.

SO THE QUESTION OF, YOU KNOW, APA'S LEGACY, AND WHAT DOES THIS ALL MEAN, KIND OF AN EXISTENTIAL QUESTION HE IS LEFT WITH.

AND HE IS TRYING TO ANSWER THROUGHOUT THE PLAY.

>> ACTORS.

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE PLAYWRIGHT AS ACTOR?

>> GOOD QUESTION.

THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

>> DOES HE MEASURE UP?

DOES HE NEED TO GO BACK TO ACTING SCHOOL?

[ LAUGHTER ] >> YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET FIRED.

>> I THINK HE IS AN INCREDIBLE ACTOR JUST AS MUCH AS HE IS OF A WRITER.

>> YEAH.

>> THE MOMENTS THAT I GET TO BE ON STAGE WITH THESE PARTICULAR PEOPLE, IT'S INCREDIBLE.

BUT ALSO I LEARN SO MUCH FROM WORKING OPPOSITE INS, BECAUSE A LOT OF THE PLAY WE'RE TOGETHER ON STAGE.

AND I WAS VERY CONFIDENT IN MYSELF BECAUSE I WAS CONFIDENT IN THEM, BECAUSE THEY WERE CONFIDENT.

IT'S JUST I LEARNED SO MUCH.

SO I'M REALLY -- I'M REALLY -- I THINK HE IS INCREDIBLE.

>> WE'VE ALSO GOT A LOT OF SPACE AS WELL TO PUT OUR OWN STAMP ON THESE CASE, BECAUSE THIS PLAY EXISTED LONG BEFORE WE HAVE AS WELL.

>> SO TRUE.

>> BUT I NEVER FELT THAT I HAVE TO FIT INTO A CERTAIN MOLD OF A PREVIOUS PRODUCTION OR PREVIOUS ACTOR.

SO I JUST REALLY ENJOYED THE SPACE OF PUTTING MY OWN STAMP ON THESE CHARACTERS WHICH HAS BEEN REALLY FUN.

>> SO WHAT IS IT LIKE FOR YOU BEING THE WRITER, THE CREATOR, THE ACTOR, IN MULTIPLE GENERATION ACTOR?

>> I STUDIED ACTING.

I NEVER STUDIED WRITING.

>> OKAY.

>> WRITING WAS ALWAYS LIKE A HOBBY, LIKE A SECRET THAT I JUST DID ON THE SIDE.

I DIDN'T WANT TO SHARE WITH ANYONE, BECAUSE IT'S TOO VULNERABLE TO SHARE YOUR WRITING.

BUT ACTING, SO I HAVE MORE CONFIDENCE IN ACTING THAN IN MY WRITING.

NOW I'M MORE CONFIDENT IN MY WRITING.

BUT IT'S BEEN JUST KIND OF LIKE A FULL CIRCLE EXPERIENCE HERE.

I MEAN, EVER SINCE I WROTE BOTH THE PLAY, I HAVE TWO KIDS.

AND I GOT OLD.

AND I ALWAYS WANTED MY KIDS TO CALL ME APA.

SO AS SOON AS THEY WERE BORN, APA.

NOW THEY CALL ME APA, AND NOW I PLAY APA.

>> WELL, THANKS VERY MUCH INDEED.

THANK YOU.

>> IT REALLY IS CHARMING, AND IT'S REALLY A RIOT.

>>> TURNING NOW TO A FEAT OF SKILL AND BRAVERY IN THE NAME OF SCIENCE.

YOU MAY REMEMBER CLIMBER ALEX HONNOLD FROM THE OSCAR WINNING DOCUMENTARY "FREE SOLO" WHEN HE BECAME THE FIRST PERSON TO SCALE EL CAPITAN IN YOSEMITE NATIONAL PARK WITHOUT ANY ROPES.

NOW IN A NEW NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC SERIES "ARCTIC ASCENT," HE SETS HIS SIGHTS EVEN HIGHER ON A 4,000 FOOT SEA CLIFF IN GREEN LAND.

THIS TIME HE'S GOT ROPES, BUT HE'S ALSO GOT THE CLIMATE ON HIS MIND, AND HE IS JOINED BY A TEAM OF SCIENTISTS HEADED UP BY GLACIOLOGIST HEIDI SEVESTRE.

HARI SREENIVASAN SPEAKS TO THEM BOTH ABOUT WHAT THEY DISCOVERED.

>> EXPEDITION LEADER ALEX HONNOLD AND GLACIOLOGIST HEIDI SEVESTRE, THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING US.

ALEX, LET ME START WITH YOU.

OUR VIEWERS MIGHT REMEMBER YOU STOPPED BY OUR STUDIOS A FEW YEARS AGO WHEN YOU WERE OUT TALKING ABOUT "FREE SOLO," A MOVIE THAT CATALOGED AN EXCRUCIATING AND ANXIETY INDUCING DETAIL YOUR ASCENT ABOVE EL CAPITAN, ONE OF THE MOST FAMOUS ROCK FACES IN THE UNITED STATES.

THIS IS A FILM THAT DOES CATALOG YOU TAKING ON AN ASCENT IN GREENLAND, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE THERE WAS MORE TO IT THAT INTERESTED YOU THAN JUST THE ROCK CLIMBING.

WHY DID YOU DO THIS?

>> THIS EXPEDITION WAS MUCH BROADER IN SCOPE AND IN PURPOSE.

WE WERE IN A REMOTE PART OF EASTERN GREENLAND.

WE WERE THERE DOING SCIENCE WITH HEIDI, WHO IS RUNNING MANY DIFFERENT PROJECTS ALONG OUR JOURNEY.

AND MOSTLY WE WERE JUST EXPLORING THIS INCREDIBLE LANDSCAPE AND SORT OF TELLING A STORY ABOUT WHY GREENLAND AND WHY THE ARCTIC IS SO IMPORTANT FOR COMMUNITY.

>> THE FIRST PICTURE I SAW, IT LOOKED LIKE THE SCARIEST WALL I'VE EVER SEEN.

WE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE ROCK WILL BE LIKE.

SO WE'VE ASKED TWO OF THE BEST CLIMBERS IN THE WORLD TO JOIN ME.

AND WE HAVE THE RIGHT HUMAN TO DO MEANINGFUL RESEARCH AS WE GO CLIMBING.

>> NO ONE HAS BEEN HERE FOR ALMOST TWO DECADES.

BECAUSE IT'S REALLY ONE OF THE MOST DANGEROUS ENVIRONMENTS ON EARTH.

>> HEIDI, TELL OUR AUDIENCE WHAT IS THE CONSEQUENCE OF THE MELTING THAT IS HAPPENING IN THE ARCTIC AND IN GREENLAND.

>> THE ARCTIC IS WARMING THREE TO FOUR TIMES FASTER THAN THE REST OF THE WORLD.

AND WE'RE SEEING THE IMPACTS OF CLIMATE CHANGE DAY IN AND DAY OUT IN THAT REGION.

WHEN YOU THINK OF THE ARCTIC, YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS THIS GIANT ISLAND OF GREENLAND THAT IS MOSTLY COVERED BY ICE.

IF THIS ICE WERE TO MELT AWAY, IT WOULD INCREASE SEA LEVELS GLOBALLY BY UP TO 24 FEET.

SO OUR FUTURE IS DIRECTLY CONNECTED TO THE HEALTH OF THE ARCTIC AND TO THE HEALTH OF THE GREENLAND ICE SHEETS.

>> ALEX, YOU HAVE BEEN INTERESTED IN ENVIRONMENT AND PROTECTING IT AND THINKING ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE FOR QUITE SOME TIME NOW.

WHEN YOU STARTED OUT ON THIS TREK, EVEN JUST TO GET TO THE FACE YOU'RE GOING THE CLIMB, WHAT DID YOU NOTICE?

>> WELL, TO BE HONEST, IT FOR ME AS A LAYPERSON, AS A NONSCIENTIST, I JUST NOTICED INCREDIBLE GLACIERS, INCREDIBLE MOUNTAINS, INCREDIBLE SCENERY.

AND THAT'S PART OF THE WONDER OF GREENLAND IS THAT IT IS ALMOST LIKE A FANTASY LANDSCAPE.

IT'S JUST INCREDIBLE.

EVERYTHING, THE SCALE IS SO VAST.

I THINK FROM A LAY PERSPECTIVE, IT'S AMAZING.

IT'S BEAUTIFUL.

AND I THINK THAT'S A BIG PART OF WHAT YOU SEE IN THE SHOW IS JUST THE INCREDIBLE BEAUTY OF THE LANDSCAPE.

BUT I THINK IT'S THROUGH THE SCIENCE THAT HEIDI IS DOING THAT YOU CAN SEE HOW QUICKLY THAT LANDSCAPE IS CHANGING.

FOR ME, IT'S THE FIRST TIME GOING TO A PLACE LIKE THAT.

SO IT JUST LOOKS AMAZING.

BUT THE MORE YOU KNOW ABOUT IT AND THE MORE YOU UNDERSTAND IT, THE MORE CONCERNING IT CAN BE.

>> WHEN IT COMES TO CLIMATE CHANGE, GREENLAND IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT PLACES ON THE PLANET.

IT'S GOTTEN ABOUT 5.5 DEGREES WARMER OVER THE LAST 40 YEARS.

MORE AND MORE OF ITS ICE IS MELTING, RAISING THE SEA LEVEL AROUND THE WORLD.

IT IS EXTREMELY REMOTE, AND SCIENTISTS RARELY HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO STUDY THE AREA AROUND IT.

>> HEIDI, MOST OF THE PLACES THAT THIS EXPEDITION WENT TO ARE PLACES THAT HUMANS DON'T GET A CHANCE TO WALK MUCH LESS TAKE SCIENTIFIC OBSERVATIONS OF.

SO GIVE US AN IDEA OF THE RANGE OF MEASUREMENTS THAT YOU WERE TAKING ON REALLY THE APPROACH TO WHERE ALEX AND HIS TEAM WERE GOING TO CLIMB.

>> I JOINED THIS EXPEDITION WAS REALLY A DREAM COME TRUE FOR A SCIENTIST, BECAUSE THIS IS ONE OF THE LEAST EXPLORED, LEAST STUDIED PARTS OF GREENLAND.

WE WERE IN EAST GREENLAND, THIS FJORD OF LEGENDS.

AND FOR SIX WEEKS, ACTUALLY WE TRAVERSED A BIG PART OF THIS FJORD, CROSSING GLACIERS, ICECAPS, COLLECTING MEASUREMENTS IN THE VERY DEEP FJORD, INSTALLING INSTRUMENTS ON THESE MASSIVE CLIFFS.

AND IN TOTAL, WE WORKED WITH 12 DIFFERENT RESEARCH INSTITUTES ON THIS EXPEDITION, INCLUDING NASA.

AND WE PERFORMED 18 DIFFERENT RESEARCH PROTOCOLS FROM GOING INTO GLACIERS, COLLECTING ROCK CORES, MEASURING ICE THICKNESS AND WATER TEMPERATURE.

THIS WAS KEY FOR THE RESEARCH COMMUNITY.

AND I'M REALLY GLAD TO SEE HOW MUCH DATA WE WERE ABLE TO BRING BACK AND SHARE WITH THESE DIFFERENT RESEARCH INSTITUTIONS.

>> HEIDI, I KNOW IT TAKES A WHILE FOR SCIENTISTS TO PORE DATA AND COME TO SOME CONCLUSIONS.

ARE THERE EXAMPLES OF THINGS YOU HAVE FOUND DURING THIS EXPEDITION THAT ARE ALREADY ADVANCING WHAT WE UNDERSTANDING GLACIERS OR ABOUT PERMAFROST THAT IS HAPPENING THERE?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

SCIENCE TAKES TIME.

IT WILL PROBABLY TAKE ANOTHER COUPLE OF YEARS TO GET ALL THE RESULTS FROM THIS EXPEDITION.

WE ALREADY HAVE SOME PRELIMINARY RESULTS, ESPECIALLY REGARDING THE INSTRUMENTS THAT WE LAUNCHED FOR NASA IN THE WATER IN THE FJORD.

SO THIS INSTRUMENT IS CALLED A FLOAT, AND WE LAUNCHED IT FOR A PROJECT CALLED OCEANS MELTING GREENLAND.

AND THE FLOAT WAS BASICALLY GOING UP AND DOWN THE WATER COLUMN, MEASURING WATER TEMPERATURE AND WATER SALINITY.

AND WHAT THIS ROBOT WAS ABLE TO TELL US IS THAT THE FJORD IS DEFINITELY GETTING WARMER.

THIS IS NOT GOOD NEWS, BECAUSE IF THE WATER AROUND THE PERIPHERY OF THE ICE SHEETS IS WARMING UP, IT MEANS IT CAN EAT AWAY AT THE ICE AROUND THE ICE SHEET AND REALLY CATALYZE CALVING AND CATALYZE SEA LEVEL RISE AROUND THE WORLD.

>> ALEX, LET'S START TALKING A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS CLIMB.

I MEAN, WHEN YOU SHOWED THE SCALE OF, SAY, THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING, EL CAPITAN, WHICH IS ALREADY ENORMOUS, WHICH YOU ASCENDED WITHOUT ANY ROPES, THIS ROCK, THIS SEA CLIFF IS A MONSTER.

IT'S EVEN BIGGER.

WHEN YOU CAME UP TO IT ON THE BOAT, KIND OF SAW IT FOR THE FIRST TIME, WHAT WENT THROUGH YOUR MIND?

>> OH, SURE.

HEIDI AND I BOTH SMILE BECAUSE WE BOTH REMEMBER SEEING IT FROM THE BOAT FOR THE FIRST TIME, AND WE ALL THOUGHT OH, NO, IT LOOKED TOO BIG AND IT LOOKED TOO DAUNTING.

IT LOOKED VERY CHALLENGING.

BUT, YOU KNOW, THEN WE SET TO WORK AND STARTED CHIPPING AWAY AT IT SO TO SPEAK, STARTED CLIMBING AND MAKING SOME PROGRESS.

AND ULTIMATELY WE WERE ABLE TO CLIMB IT.

BUT IT IS A VERY INTIMIDATING WALL.

IT'S VERY BIG.

AND IT LOOKS -- IT LOOK ALMOST EVIL JUST THE WAY THE SWIRLS ON THE ROCK ARE.

IT LOOKS VERY DAUNTING.

>> ICE, ICE.

>> ICE!

>> IF WE MANAGE TO CLIMB IT -- >> ROCK, ROCK, ROCK!

>> IT WILL BE THE BIGGEST CLIMB WE'VE EVER DONE.

>> WE JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'LL FACE UP THERE.

>> SO SCARY!

>> I WAS DEFINITELY HOPING THAT CONDITIONS WERE GOING TO IMPROVE.

AND THEY HAVE DEFINITELY NOT IMPROVED.

>> HEIDI, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE NOTICED WAS AMOUNT OF ICE FALLING ON THE CLIMBERS, WHICH WAS AN INCREDIBLY SIGNIFICANT THREAT AND A DANGER, AND THERE WAS ONE POINT WHERE ALEX EVEN GETS CUT ON HIS NOSE BY A PIECE OF FALLING ICE.

BUT I WONDER, YOU KNOW, ASIDE FROM GREENLAND, ARE WE SEEING THESE KIND OF CLIMATE CHANGE IMPACTS IN OTHER ROCK FACES, OTHER MOUNTAINS AROUND THE PLANET AS THE TEMPERATURES WARM UP?

>> YEAH, DEFINITELY.

AND I'M SURE ALEX HAS LOTS OF STORIES TO TELL ABOUT HOW CLIMATE CHANGE IS IMPACTING THE SAFETY OF THESE MOUNTAINS.

BUT, YOU KNOW, I COME FROM THE FRENCH ALPS.

AND IN THE FRENCH ALPS, WE'RE STARTING TO SEE MORE AND MORE ROCK FALLS.

THEY'RE MORE FREQUENT.

THEY'RE BIGGER AND BIGGER EVERY YEAR.

BECAUSE WE HAVE WHAT WE CALL PERMAFROST IN THESE HIGH MOUNTAINS.

AND PERMAFROST IS LIKE A GLUE THAT KEEPS THESE MOUNTAINS TOGETHER.

UNFORTUNATELY, IT IS THAWING DEEPER AND DEEPER EVERY YEAR.

SO THESE MOUNTAINS ARE BECOMING INCREASINGLY DANGEROUS.

>> ALEX, WHAT ARE SOME EXAMPLES THAT YOU HAVE SEEN OF HOW CLIMATE CHANGE MIGHT BE AFFECTING ROCK FACES THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE CLIMBED EARLIER IN YOUR LIFE AND HOW SITUATIONS HAVE CHANGED AND THE PLACES THAT YOU GO TO?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, HEIDI HAS JUST AS MANY EXAMPLES.

WE BOTH HAVE SEEN SO MUCH OF THIS IN THE NATURAL WORLD.

AS A CLIMBER, YOU PROBABLY NOTICE IT THE MOST WITH THE APPROACHES AND OUT OF THE MOUNTAINS.

THE WAY YOU HIKE INTO THE MOUNTAINS AND THE WAY YOU NAVIGATE GLACIERS.

JUST IN THE FEW SEASONS I'VE CLIMBED IN PATAGONIA IN SOUTHERN ARGENTINA, SOME OF THE GLACIERS HAVE RECEDED ENOUGH THAT YOU USED TO HIKE ON THE SOUTH AND NOW YOU HIKE ON THE NORTH, THE GLACIER HAS MOVED SO MUCH AND NOW YOU CAN'T GET AROUND.

THINGS LIKE THAT.

LANDSCAPES THAT LOOK LIKE THEY SHOULD BE PERMANENT ARE IN FACT CHANGING INCREDIBLY QUICKLY.

AND THAT'S PRETTY SOBERING.

BECAUSE NORMALLY WHEN YOU GO INTO THE MOUNTAINS LIKE THAT, YOU'RE STRUCK BY SORT OF THE HUMAN INSIGNIFICANCE.

YOU THINK OF HOW SMALL YOU ARE AND HOW BIG AND PERMANENT THOSE MOUNTAINS ARE.

IN CASE YOU GO TWO YEARS IN A ROW AND THE MOUNTAINS HAVE CHANGED EVEN MORE THAN WE HAVE.

THAT'S A VERY SCARY THING TO SEE.

>> HEIDI, PUT THAT IN PERSPECTIVE FOR US.

WHEN WE LOOK AT CORE SAMPLES, AND YOU DO YOUR DRILLING, AND YOU FIND ALMOST A HISTORY BOOK OF WHAT'S BEEN HAPPENING TO A SPECIFIC PIECE OF LAND, HOW CONCLUSIVE IS THE HUMAN IMPACT, WHETHER IT'S ICE CORE OR ROCK CORE?

AND PUT IN PERSPECTIVE THAT CHANGE.

BECAUSE THESE THINGS HAVE BEEN LITERALLY HERE FOREVER, COMPARED TO US AND OUR IMPACTS.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THESE LANDSCAPES HAVE SO MANY STORIES TO TELL, WHETHER IT'S THE ROCK, THE ICE.

WE CAN REALLY GO SUPER FAR BACK IN TIME BY ANALYZING THESE DIFFERENT MATERIALS.

YOU KNOW THAT CLIMATE HAS ALWAYS CHANGED, ABSOLUTELY.

BUT THE RATE OF CHANGE WE'RE SEEING AT THE MOMENT IS ABSOLUTELY UNPRECEDENTED, AND IT IS WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT THAT THE CURRENT CHANGE IN CLIMATE WE'RE ALL EXPERIENCING IS DIRECTLY CONNECTED TO THE BURNING OF FOSSIL FUELS, TO DEFORESTATION, BASICALLY TO HUMAN ACTIVITIES.

AND IT IS REALLY WHAT SCARES US, THE SCIENTISTS, HOW QUICKLY THINGS ARE CHANGING, BECAUSE IT'S REALLY PUSHING OUR CAPACITIES OF ADAPTATION TO THEIR VERY LIMITS.

THIS IS WHY WE NEED MORE DATA FROM THESE PLACES TO BE ABLE TO PREPARE FOR A FUTURE THAT WE'RE TRYING TO SEE IN THESE ROCKS AND THE ICE.

>> HEIDI, THERE IS A SCENE IN THE FILM WHERE YOU BASICALLY DIG A HOLE, AND ALEX DIGS ANOTHER ONE NEAR YOU.

AND BOTH OF YOU GET INTO THIS HOLE, AND YOU KIND OF LOOK IN BETWEEN.

AND YOU SEE THE DIFFERENT LAYERS.

THIS IS ALMOST WITHIN A YEAR'S WORTH.

AND THERE ARE THESE LINES.

EXPLAIN WHAT THE LINES ACROSS WERE AND WHY THAT'S SIGNIFICANT.

>> THAT WAS SO MAGICAL.

AND I'M GLAD THAT I HAD THESE SUPER FIT ATHLETES AROUND ME HELPING ME TO DIG THESE HOLES IN THE SNOW.

AND ALEX WAS WAY FASTER THAN ME.

BUT IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT ACTUALLY TO DIG THESE SNOW PITS, BECAUSE THE DEEPER YOU GO, THE FURTHER BACK IN TIME YOU CAN BE.

AND WHAT WE SAW WAS A SERIES OF ICE LANCES.

AS BEAUTIFUL AS THEY ARE, THEY'RE NOT A GOOD SIGN.

THESE ICE LANCES TELL US THAT THERE WERE MOMENTS DURING THE PAST FEW MONTHS ON THIS ICECAP THAT AT THE PERIPHERY OF THE GREEN ICE SHEETS, MOMENTS WITH MELTS WITH RAIN.

AND THIS WAS HIGHLY UNEXPECTED ACTUALLY FOR THIS SPOT OF GREENLAND THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE QUITE COLD AT THIS HIGH ALTITUDE.

>> ALEX, LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW YOU KIND OF FELT ON THIS CLIMB.

BECAUSE WHILE DOING A FREE SOLO IS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT CHALLENGE, AND IT WAS SORT OF ONE PART OF YOUR LIFE, HERE YOU ARE YEARS LATER TAKING ON A SIX-WEEK EXPEDITION WITH, AS LOTS OF THINGS HAVE, A VERY SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF RISK INVOLVED.

AND I WONDER IF YOU APPROACH THE PREPARATION DIFFERENTLY, IF YOU THINK ABOUT THINGS DIFFERENTLY, I KNOW THAT YOU'RE MARRIED AND A DAD?

>> NO, HONESTLY, THIS WAS ONE OF MY FAVORITE EXPEDITIONS THAT I'VE EVER BEEN ON, AND I GO ON CLIMBING TRIPS EVERY YEAR.

I'M FREQUENTLY DOING EXPEDITIONS SIMILAR TO THIS, BUT WITH DIFFERENT OBJECTIVES.

THIS WAS ONE OF MY FAVORITE TRIPS BECAUSE I HAD THE RIGHT COMBINATION OF A GREET TEAM, GREAT PURPOSE, GREAT OBJECTIVES.

THE CLIMBING WAS INSPIRING ENOUGH FOR ME TO BE EXCITED TO GO THERE.

BUT THEN THE SCIENCE WE WERE DOING, THE TEAM WERE DOING IT WITH, EVERYTHING ELSE ABOUT THE TRIP MADE THE WHOLE THING SEEM TOTALLY WORTHWHILE TO ME IN A WAY THAT KIND OF PUT IT BEYOND A NORMAL TIME AND OBJECTIVE.

NORMALLY YOU'RE JUST CLIMBING FOR YOURSELF.

IN THIS CASE IT FELT WE WERE REALLY DOING SOMETHING USEFUL, AND IT MADE THE WHOLE TRIP FEEL A LOT MORE MEANINGFUL.

>> ALEX, I WONDER, THERE IS A TEAMMATE OF YOURS, MIKE AND YOU, YOU HAVE A DISAGREEMENT, A AND YOU HAVE A HEART TO HEART.

A AND THE CAMERAS ARE WELL ENOUGH POSITIONED TO CAPTURE SOME OF THAT.

WHAT GOES THROUGH YOUR MIND AS YOU LOOK BACK.

HIS CONCERN WAS I DON'T FEEL NECESSARILY COMFORTABLE AND I DON'T FEEL HEARD.

AND AGAIN, FROM A VIEWER'S PERSPECTIVE, I WONDER IF THEY'RE MISALIGNED HERE.

>> HONESTLY, I THINK THE FILMMAKERS DID A GREAT JOB SHOWING THE ENTIRE EXPEDITION.

BUT THE REALITY IS THAT WE HAD CONVERSATIONS LIKE THAT MUCH MORE THAN YOU SEE ON CAMERA.

WE WERE CONSTANTLY TALKING ABOUT RISK.

WE'RE CONSTANTLY TALKING ABOUT HOW TO MITIGATE RISK AND MANAGE AND WHETHER OR NOT WE FEEL COMFORTABLE, WHETHER OR NOT WE FEEL SAFE.

YOU CERTAINLY SEE GLIMPSES IN THE FILM.

THE REALITY, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT IT ALL THE TIME BECAUSE WE ALL WANT TO COME HOME SAFELY.

BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT ISN'T SHOWN IN THE FILM IS AFTER THAT CONVERSATION, MIKEY DECIDED THAT HE DIDN'T WANT TO PARTICIPATE IN THE CLIMB ON THE FACE.

BUT INSTEAD, WHAT HE DID WAS GUIDE THE CAMERA CREW UP THE BACK SIDE OF THE MOUNTAIN SO THEY COULD FILM IT.

BECAUSE HE IS BASICALLY A PROFESSIONAL MOUNTAIN GUIDE AND A FILMMAKER HIMSELF.

AND SO PART OF WHAT ISN'T SAID IN THAT WHOLE EXCHANGE IS THAT HE WAS DECIDING TO USE HIS UNIQUE SET OF SKILLS IN A DIFFERENT WAY TO HELP THE TEAM IN A WAY HE FELT WAS SAFER BUT STILL INCREDIBLY USEFUL.

>> HEIDI, WHAT'S IT LIKE BEGINNING YOUR CLIMBING EXPERIENCE WITH WORLD CLASS EXPERTS ON -- IN A REGION THAT NOBODY'S EVER REALLY CLIMBED BEFORE?

>> I'LL BE HONEST.

I REALLY DIDN'T WANT TO DO ANY CLIMBING.

AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE.

BUT, YOU KNOW, THIS WAS ONE IN A LIFETIME OPPORTUNITY.

AND ALSO, YOU KNOW, I FELT THE PRESSURE OF THE IMPORTANCE OF COLLECTING THESE ROCK SAMPLES ON THIS WALL THE RIGHT WAY.

NOT THAT THE CLIMBERS WERE NOT GOING DO IT THE RIGHT WAY.

BUT I REALLY WANTED TO BE THERE TO SEE IT HAPPENING.

AND LUCKILY, YOU KNOW, THEY TRUSTED ME.

THEY THOUGHT THAT BY GIVING ME THE RIGHT TRAINING, I WOULD BE ABLE TO DO IT.

AND IT WAS -- IT WAS EQUALLY MAGICAL AND TERRIFYING A THE SAME TIME.

BUT I'M SO GLAD THAT WE'RE ABLE TO COLLECT THESE ROCK CORES ALONG THE WAY.

THIS WAS A BIG MISSION COMPLETE FOR ME.

>> SO, ALEX, HOW WAS SHE?

>> OH, SHE WAS GREAT.

HEIDI DID FINE.

NONE OF US HAD ANY DOUBT SHE WOULD MAKE IT UP THE WALL JUST FINE AND BE TOTALLY SAFE.

AS SHE WAS JUST ALLUDING TO, THE SCIENCE, I FOUND CONSISTENTLY THROUGHOUT THE EXPEDITION, IT WAS HARDER TO DO THE SCIENTIFIC EXPERIMENTS, IT WAS HARDER TO COLLECT DATA THAN I MAYBE EXPECTED, BECAUSE A LOT OF THE THINGS, A LOT OF THE PROTOCOLS, OH, DRILL A SAMPLE INTO THE ROCK.

BUT THEN IT TURNS OUT IT'S REALLY HARD AND IT'S HARD TO LINE UP THE DRILL PROPERLY AND HARD TO MANAGE THE BATTERIES.

EVERYTHING WAS MORE CHALLENGING THAN WE EXPECTED.

SO I THINK IT WAS ACTUALLY INCREDIBLY HELP TO FEEL HAVE HEIDI OVERSEEING EVERYTHING.

LIKE THERE IS NO CHANCE WE COULD HAVE DONE ANY OF THE SCIENCE WITHOUT HEIDI ON THE TEAM.

IT JUST TURNED OUT THAT IT WAS ALL TOO DIFFICULT FOR US.

>> IS THERE, ALEX, A MOMENT THAT GAVE YOU PAUSE ON THIS, IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS FACE WHERE YOU KIND OF ARE MAKING SOME OF THE FINAL ASCENTS?

>> A LITTLE BIT.

I THINK OUR FINAL DAY CLIMBING, WHICH WAS THE HIGHLIGHT OF THE SHOW, HAZEL AND I ARE CLIMBING THE FINAL HEDWALL OF THIS GIANT MOUNTAIN.

THERE WAS DEFINITELY A LOT OF UNCERTAINTY AROUND HOW WE COULD DO IT.

PHYSICALLY, WHERE WE SHOULD NAVIGATE ON THE WALL AND WHAT ROUTE WE SHOULD CHOOSE.

REALLY, THAT'S THE CHALLENGE OF DOING A FIRST ASCENT BECAUSE NOBODY HAS BEEN THERE.

SO YOU DON'T REALLY KNOW WHICH WAY TO GO.

WE DEFINITELY BOTH FELT VERY UNCOMFORTABLE THE WHOLE TIME.

LIKE THERE WAS A LOT OF TENSION AROUND HOW TO WEAVE OUR WAY UP THE WALL.

BUT THERE WAS NO SERIOUSLY DRAMATIC MOMENT, BUT IT WAS MORE LIKE ATTENTION THAT YOU CARRY THE ENTIRE DAY AS YOU WORK YOUR WAY UP.

WE BOTH FELT INCREDIBLE RELIEF AT THE END OF THE JOB.

WE WERE GENUINELY VERY EXCITED TO MAKE IT TO TOP.

>> AND HEIDI, WHEN DID YOU FIGURE OUT OR HEAR THAT THEY HAD ACTUALLY PULLED IT OFF?

>> YEAH, WE HAD RADIOS FROM BASE CAMP, AND WE HEARD THE GOOD NEWS.

THE RELIEF WAS ALSO ENORMOUS AT BASE CAMP.

WE WERE SO ANXIOUS.

WE WERE REALLY TENSE THE WHOLE TIME.

AND WE FELT -- YOU KNOW, WE FELT SO PROUD LULL TULLY OF WHAT YOU GUYS HAD ACHIEVED.

AGAIN, A MASSIVE CONGRATULATIONS.

>> GLACIOLOGIST DR. HEIDI SEVESTRE AND CLIMBER AND EXPEDITION LEADER ALEX HONNOLD, THANK YOU BOTH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> MY PLEASURE.

>>> AND FINALLY TONIGHT, MORE ICE AND A HAPPY ENDING IN THOSE ICY WATERS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD.

EARLIER THIS WEEK, THESE ORCAS WERE SEEN TRAPPED BY SEA ICE OFF THE COAST OF JAPAN'S NORTHERN ISLAND HOKKAIDO.

FIRST SPOTTED BY LOCAL FISHEN MEN, THE POD OF AT LEAST 10 WAS SEEN STRUGGLING CLOSE TOGETHER, POKING THEIR HEADS OUT OF A HOLE IN THE ICE.

BUT LOCAL AUTHORITIES BELIEVE THEY HAVE MANAGED TO ESCAPE TO SAFETY NOW.

AN OFFICIAL SAID THEY COULD NO LONGER SPOT THE WHALES, AND THE ICE DRIFT HAD LOOSENED, MEANING THE CHANCES ARE VERY HIGH THE ORCAS HAVE BROKEN FREE.

THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S COMING UP EVERY NIGHT ON THE SHOW SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWS LATER AT PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.