>> Cathy: COMING UP IN THE NEXT HOUR WE'LL TALK WITH PAUL DOUGLAS ABOUT OUR WARM DRY WINTER.

KAOMI LEE LOOKS AT THE LABOR SHORTAGE THROUGH THE EYES OF A FAMILY IN THE APPLE ORCHARD BUSINESS.

>> WE'LL START WITH THURSDAY'S GRAND JURY INDICTMENT IN THE DEATHS OF THREE BURNSVILLE FIRST RESPONDERS LAST MONTH.

SHANNON GOODEN WHO FATALELY SHOT THE OFFICERS AND A FIREFIGHTER WAS PROHIBITED FROM OWNING GUNS.

HIS GIRLFRIEND NOW FACES 11 FEDERAL CHARGES INCLUDING PROVIDING GOODEN WITH FIREARMS THROUGH WHAT IS CALLED A STRAW PURCHASE.

HERE TO SORT THROUGH THE CHARGES WITH US IS A FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY FROM MINNESOTA, RACHEL PAULOSE.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> WHAT IS STRAW PURCHASING?

IS >> WELL, LAW ENFORCEMENT REFERS TO STRAW PURCHASING AS LENDING AND LYING, OR BUYING AND LYING.

SO BASICALLY IT'S WHERE A PERSON STEPS IN THE SHOES OF SOMEONE ELSE AS A STRAWMAN THEY USUALLY SAY BUT IN THIS CASE A STRAWWOMAN AND FILLED OUT FORMS CLAIMING THAT HE OR SHE WANTS TO PURCHASE A GUN FOR HIS OR HER OWN USE AND THEN INSTEAD TRANSFERS IT TO ANOTHER PERSON TYPICALLY A PROHIBITED PERSON TO USE.

WHAT WE SAW IN THIS CASE WHAT Ms. DIERDAHL FILLED OUT AN ATF ORM AND I RECENTLY REACQUAINTED MYSELF WITH THAT FORM 4473 THAT ASKS IF MULTIPLE PLACES, ARE YOU BUYING THIS GUN FOR YOURSELF, DO YOU INTEND TO TRANSFER IT TO SOMEONE ELSE, DO YOU INTEND TO TRANSFER IT TO SOMEONE WHO IS A PROHIBITED PERSON?

AND SHE ANSWERED ALL OF THOSE QUESTIONS INDICATING THAT SHE WAS BUYING THE WEAPON FOR HERSELF AND THAT SHE DID NOT INTEND TO TRANSFER TO SOMEONE ELSE.

>> Cathy: I SUPPOSE A GUN SHOP OWNER NO MATTER WHO THEY ARE THAT WOULD BE DIFFICULT TO VERIFY THOSE ANSWERS.

>> THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS THIS CASE IS SO DIFFICULT, CATHY IS BECAUSE THE OWNER OF THE GUN SHOP EALLY IN LARGE PART HAS TO RELY ON THE PEOPLE FILLING OUT THE FORM TO GIVE TRUTHFUL ANSWERS.

>> Eric: WHY FEDERAL CHARGES INSTEAD OF STATE?

AND HOW -- WHY WAS THIS DONE SO QUICKLY?

IT SEEMS FAST.

>> I'M SURE THAT THE PUBLIC OUTCRY OVER THE MURDER OF THREE FIRST RESPONDERS LED IN PART TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TAKING THIS CASE AND TAKING IT SERIOUSLY AND MOVING ERY QUICKLY.

AND YOU CAN SEE EVEN FROM THE STRUCTURE OF THE DIME, IT'S A NARRATIVE WHICH -- OF THE INDICTMENT IT'S A NARRATIVE WHICH YOU DON'T TYPICALLY SEE IN THESE FELON IN POSSESSION OR STRAW PURCHASING CRIMES.

BUT I DON'T THINK THAT'S A BAD THING.

WE'RE DESIGNED TO BE A REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY.

GOVERNMENT IS DESIGNED TO BE RESPONSIVE TO PEOPLE, THE FIRST THREE WORDS OF OUR CONSTITUTION ARE "WE THE PEOPLE," AND SO THE FACT THAT PEOPLE ARE TROUBLED AND OUTRAGED BY THIS CRIME, I THINK LED TO A RESULT THAT HOPEFULLY EDUCATES PEOPLE ABOUT THE DANGERS OF STRAW PURCHASING.

>> Cathy: I'M GOING TO SSUME -- >> IN ADDITION TO BRINGING SOME MEASURE OF JUSTICE TO THE FAMILIES.

>> Cathy: I'M GOING TO ASSUME THAT IF FEDERAL CHARGES ARE OBVIOUSLY MUCH HARSHER THAN ANY STATE PENALTY WOULD BE, AND I'M ASSUMING THAT'S WHY THE U.S. ATTORNEY WENT IN THAT DIRECTION.

>> THERE'S A 15-YEAR TERM, PRISON TERM AND TWO YEARS AGO PRESIDENT BIDEN SIGNED A BIPARTISAN BILL ACTUALLY BUMPING UP THE PENALTIES FOR THIS KIND OF CRIME, AND SEGREGATING ITS A STANDALONE CRIME.

BUT SHE'S INDICTED ON THREE DIFFERENT TYPES OF CHARGES AND I'M HAPPY TOE TALK THROUGH THAT WITH YOU, ONE OF IS A STRAW PURCHASE.

>> Eric: WELL, SHE COULD SAY AND I DON'T KNOW IF SHE WOULD BUT MAYBE SHE COULD SAY I WAS COERCED TO DO THIS, I WAS AFRAID FOR MY CHILDREN, HE HAD SUPERIOR FIRE POWER OVER ME.

>> THAT'S A TYPICAL DEFENSE IN THESE KINDS OF CASES, ERIC.

I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE CHALLENGING IN THIS CASE WHERE THE GOVERNMENT HAS LAID OUT EVEN IN THE INDICTMENT THE TEXTS HAT SHE WAS SENDING TO HIM SAYING DO YOU LIKE YOUR NEW WEAPON AND HE TELLS HER TO SHUSH AND HE SAYS SHE'S HAPPY TO GET IT FOR HIM.

I MEAN, THAT DOESN'T INDICATE COERCE.

BUT CERTAINLY THAT COULD BE SOMETHING SHE RAISES, IT'S CERTAINLY YPICAL IN THESE KINDS OF CASES.

>> Cathy: SHE DOES FACE OTHER CHARGES SO YOU MENTIONED THERE'S THE STRAW PURCHASE CHARGE.

WHAT OTHER CHARGES IS SHE LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW?

>> SHE'S ALSO CHARGED WITH MAKING A FALSE STATEMENT ON A FEDERAL FORM, OF COURSE, AND THAT WAS SORT OF THE HISTORIC STATUTE THAT PROSECUTORS USED.

AND THEN IN A NOVEL APPROACH, CREATED ACTUALLY BY MY FORMER COLLEAGUE J JEFF PAULSON WHO I THINK IS ONE OF THE GREATEST PROSECUTORS HE DEVELOPED THIS CONDUCT WHERE YOU CAN BE CHARGED WITH CONSPIRACY TO VIOLATE THE FELON IN POSSESSION STATUTE.

SO SHE AND GOODEN CONSPIRED TO PLACE THOSE GUNS IN HIS HANDS, FIVE GUNS IN ALL.

>> Eric: WHEN MIGHT THIS GO TO TRIAL?

>> IT COULD BE MONTHS OR A YEAR FROM NOW.

THERE IS SUCH A THING CALLED THE SPEEDY TRIAL ACT THAT DOES SET A TIME LIMIT ON HOW LONG PRETRIAL MOTIONS AND PROCEEDINGS CAN DRAG ON BUT THE DEFENDANT CAN VOLUNTARILY AGREE TO LENGTHEN THE TIME.

THERE'S ALSO A QUESTION OF WILL THIS GO TO TRIAL.

>> Eric: SURE.

>> AND IF SHE DECIDES TO PLEAD GUILTY WHICH I THINK THIS INDICTMENT IS DESIGNED TO PUT PRESSURE ON HER TO DO THAT, GIVEN THE DIFFERENT CONSTRUCT OF THIS INDICTMENT.

WE'LL SEE.

>> Eric: THANKS FOR COMING OVER AND SHARING