JOHN YANG: Last September marked the end of a federal pandemic era program that provided free meals for all public-school students nationwide.

And now with inflation making trips to the grocery store more expensive, families are feeling the pinch, but it's not just parents shouldering the burden.

A recent survey by a group that advocates for universal free school lunch found that 847 school districts have racked up more than $19 million in debt from unpaid lunch fees.

The result can be tough questions for parents and schools.

Ali Rogin has more.

ALI ROGIN: Joining me now is Crystal FitzSimons from the Food Research and Action Center, she leads the Center's work on nutrition programs that serve school aged children.

Crystal, thank you so much for joining us.

When this program ended, many school districts switched back to having kids apply to receive reduced or free school lunches.

What were some of the challenges in implementing those changes?

CRYSTAL FITZSIMONS, Food Research & Action Center: Yeah, so after a couple of years of schools being able to offer free meals to all students, schools had to go back to collecting school meal applications and individually qualifying kids for free or reduced-price school meals.

So what we saw was that a lot of kids were falling through the cracks.

A lot of families didn't know they had to fill out school meal applications.

And the other challenge really is that the threshold to receive free school meals is too low.

So for like a family of three, you would have to earn just under $30,000 a year in order to qualify for free school meals.

So we actually heard from a lot of school districts that families were applying for free school meals, and they weren't meeting the cutoff.

ALI ROGIN: And what about those people who perhaps their applications just never got to the school or they had trouble submitting the applications, things like that, or in some cases they just don't know to apply.

CRYSTAL FITZSIMONS: Now, that's exactly right.

The school mail application process can be challenging for families and for schools.

And so some kids are under certified, which means they're eligible for free meals.

But there was maybe a mistake with their application or they didn't submit an application.

Some kids struggle to pay the reduced-price copay because they don't quite qualify for free school meals and other families who don't qualify for free or reduced-price school meals can sometimes struggle to even pay the cost of the meal.

ALI ROGIN: All right.

And then what do we know about how students are affected when they get denied a meal because they can't pay for it?

CRYSTAL FITZSIMONS: Well, so there's a couple things the school breakfast and school lunch program really do make sure that kids have access to the nutrition that they need to grow and thrive and do well in school.

And so when they show up in the school cafeteria, and they don't access that meal, it can be really difficult because the kids don't get access to the food that they need.

And then for schools, if a child shows up in the school cafeteria, and they don't have money in their school lunch account or cash in hand, then the school is left with a tough decision to.

They need to figure out whether or not they can cover the cost of that meal.

And what ends up happening is if a child goes through the school lunch line and the school isn't going to let them charge the meal then they ended up having to take the lunch away from the child which is pretty traumatic.

And nobody wants that to happen.

Schools don't want that to happen.

Parents don't want that to happen and kids definitely do not understand when that happens to them.

ALI ROGIN: All right.

And how does it affect their academic performance, what do we know about that?

CRYSTAL FITZSIMONS: Well, we know that kids do better when they're well nourished.

We know that kids need a nutritious breakfast to start the school day ready to learn.

They need a nutritious lunch to continue to learn throughout the school day.

And so kids are missing out on lunch during the school day, they're going to return to class in the afternoon, unable to focus and unable to concentrate.

ALI ROGIN: And then in some communities advocates have been finding ways to pay for these meals without state or federal help.

What are those efforts look like?

CRYSTAL FITZSIMONS: Well, so there's a couple things that are going on.

Some school districts will actually participate and option these are high poverty districts and still offer free meals to all students through what they call the Community Eligibility Provision.

Other districts will maybe raise money to help pay the cost of the unpaid School Meal debt, which is actually not the best idea because it just makes it difficult for it's just not a great policy, like it's much better to be able to just offer free meals to all the students.

ALI ROGIN: So there are a few states that have gone ahead and passed their own free breakfast and lunch programs, other states are pursuing those routes.

How are other states approaching this crisis?

CRYSTAL FITZSIMONS: Well, that's absolutely right.

Five states actually have created permanent healthy school meals for all programs where kids across their state are able to access free meals no matter what.

And that's been incredible.

They didn't want to go back to the way the programs operated before the pandemic.

And then we have four more states that have actually passed extended free school meals for all for at least one more year, and advocates in those states are working very hard to try and get those extended.

And then other states, we have about 20 states that are working on campaigns to try and get healthy school meals for all.

So nobody really wants to go back to wait the school nutrition programs operated before the pandemic.

ALI ROGIN: And in the past, on the federal level, there have been efforts to pass some sort of more broad free lunch and breakfast programs.

But what's the prospect for anything happening on the federal level these days?

CRYSTAL FITZSIMONS: Well, hope springs eternal.

So we continue to ask Congress to do what we need them to do, which is to offer free meals to all students and to fund it.

We -- the National School Lunch and School Breakfast Programs, those are national programs.

And we want to make sure that kids in Mississippi have the same access to school meals as kids in California and kids in Maine, and kids in Texas.

So we're really calling on Congress to do the right thing and create a healthy school meals for all program.

ALI ROGIN: And the USDA is actually proposing a program that would provide free meals to schools that have predominantly low-income students, what do those efforts look like?

CRYSTAL FITZSIMONS: Yeah, so we do have a program like that.

And what USDA is talking about doing is extending it so that more schools would qualify for it.

And we are also hoping that Congress would actually invest in that program more to make it more financially viable for the schools to do it.

So USDA has been a great partner and trying to ensure that kids have access to nutritious school breakfast and lunches.

ALI ROGIN: Now, there have been some critics of broad school, breakfast and lunch for all programs, saying that they are wasteful that they have in the past shown that they can't account for millions of dollars in improper payments.

How do you respond to that criticism?

ALI ROGIN: Well, so first, I would say that kids are in school for about seven hours a day, and they all need access to school breakfast and school lunch.

And second, I would say the process that schools have to go through to certify kids for free and reduced-price school meals is a very challenging process.

And so kids get missed, kids get under certified or over certified.

And a lot of times when people are talking about what you're talking about, it's actually you're talking about a child receiving a lunch.

And so I don't really think about that as fraud.

I think that all the kids should be able to access a nutritious lunch.

ALI ROGIN: Crystal Fitzsimons with the Food Research and Action Center, thank you so much for your time.

CRYSTAL FITZSIMONS: Thank you for having me.