[♪♪] >> IF YOU ARE WILLING AND ABLE TO TRY TO WORK FOR A GOOD CHANGE, THEN HOPEFULLY WE ARE ENTERTAINING YOU ALONG THE WAY.

[♪♪] >> HELLO I'M BONNIE ERBE WELCOME TO TO THE CONTRARY.

USUALLY WE OFFER A PANEL DISCUSSION OF ISSUES AFFECTING WOMEN, FAMILIES AND DIVERSE COMMUNITIES.

BUT TODAY WE HAVE SOMETHING VERY SPECIAL AND DELICIOUS FOR YOU.

AN INTERVIEW WITH AMY ZIFF OF THE ROCK BAND BETTY.

AND I WANT TO START OUT BY ASKING YOU, YOU ARE NOW 30 YEARS ON INTO YOUR CAREER -- >> CAN YOU BELIEVE IT?

>> -- WITH A BAND THAT CHANGED THINGS A LOT IN TERMS OF WOMEN'S RIGHTS AND ADVANCING WOMEN'S RIGHTS IN THE MUSIC INDUSTRY WHICH IS MALE-DOMINATED.

AND ALSO FEMINISM.

YOU TELL ME WHAT MARK YOU'VE MADE THERE?

>> WELL, THANK YOU FOR SAYING THAT.

IT'S FUN TO BE BACK IN DC AND THIS IS WHERE BETTY WAS BORN.

MYSELF AND MY SISTER AND BEST FRIEND.

30 YEARS AGO.

SO WE HAVE BEEN DOING IT LONGER THAN YOU.

I WOULD LOVE TO THINK THAT WE HAVE HAD INFLUENCE ON THINGS THAT WE CARE ABOUT AND THAT IS WONDERFUL AND GENEROUS OF YOU TO SAY.

WE CAME TOGETHER AS LIKE-MINDED MUSICIANS AND FRIENDS AND TRIED TO ENTERTAIN PEOPLE BUT TO STAND FOR SOMETHING THAT WE BELIEVE IN.

AND WE'VE BEEN LUCKY TO TRAVEL THE WORLD AND I HOPE MAKE SOME KIND OF AN IMPACT ON DISENFRANCHISED COMMUNITIES OR YOUNG WOMEN AND GIRLS.

AND THE LGBT COMMUNITIES AND MAYBE JUST TO SET EXAMPLES AND TO BE SUPPORTIVE ALONG THE WAY.

>> 30 YEARS IS A LONGTIME TO TRY TO STAY ALIVE IN THE MUSIC INDUSTRY.

>> YOU'VE KIDDING ME, ESPECIALLY WITH YOUR SISTER AND YOUR BEST FRIEND.

SO WE FIGHT A LOT BUT THERE IS A LOT OF LOVE THERE, TOO.

AND A LOT OF COMMITMENT TO THINGS BUT IT'S THE MUSIC.

THE MUSIC WE HAVE THINGS TO SAY AND WE STILL HAVE THINGS TO BE FIGHTING FOR SO THAT'S BASICALLY WHAT KEEPS US TOGETHER.

AND THESE DAYS IT SEEMS THAT THE JOB IS GOING TO BE HARDER THAN EVER YOU KNOW.

WE WERE NOT EXPECTING THIS KIND OF POLITICAL CLIMATE AGAIN.

WE STARTED IN SOMETHING OPPRESSIVE HERE IN WASHINGTON AND MOVED TO NEW YORK WITH OUR FIRST TELEVISION SHOW.

AND JUST GETTING OFF THE TRAIN TODAY IT SEEMED GLOOMIER A LITTLE BIT MORE DOWN TRODDEN IN WASHINGTON AND ALL OVER THE COUNTRY IT FEELS THAT WAY.

>> TELL ME.

FIRST, LET'S GO BACK TO YOUR ROOTS.

HOW DID THE BAND START AND WHY DID THE BAND START?

>> WHY DID THE BAND START?

WE -- I WAS IN NEW YORK.

I CAME BACK TO BE WITH ELIZABETH SHE WAS HAVING SOME ISSUES.

AND WE STARTED MAKING MUSIC TOGETHER WHICH SEEMED THERAPEUTIC.

AND THEN WE THOUGHT WE WOULD GO A STEP FURTHER AND DO A BAND.

AND WE AUDITIONED PEOPLE AND WHEN ALLISON CAME INTO OUR LIVES IT SEEMED LIKE IT WAS KIZ MITT AND WE HAVE NOT LOOKED BACK.

WE DID AN OFF BROADWAY SHOW ABOUT THAT BETTY RULES AND RETOUR TO DO HERE IN WASHINGTON THREE TIMES.

AND HERE EVERYBODY GOT ALL THE REFERENCES AND IT WAS A NICE COMING HOME SITUATION.

>> YOUR FIRST ALBUM, TELL ME ABOUT IT, WHAT IS THE MUSIC?

>> CALLED HELLO BETTY.

AND YOU KNOW OUR MUSIC WAS NOT SPECIFICALLY POLITICAL AND HASN'T BEEN.

IT'S JUST MORE I LIKE TO WRITE ABOUT FOOD AND SEX AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

AND EVERYBODY HAS THEIR OWN STYLE AND WE COME TOGETHER AND KIND OF, I GUESS IT BECOMES A MASH UP WITH THE THREE OF OUR INFLUENCES BUT WE WRITE INDIVIDUALLY.

WE'VE STARTED WRITING MORE POLITICALLY IT SEEMS LIKE THERE IS MORE OF AN URGENCY NOW.

BUT I THINK THIS -- THAT IS OUR LATEST CD THAT YOU HAVE CALLED ON THE ROCKS.

AND THERE'S NICE SONGS ON THAT.

AND SUBSEQUENT TO THAT WE STARTED WRITING POLITICAL THINGS CALLED MAKING A DIFFERENCE AND RISE, WHICH IS THINGS THAT WE HAVE BEEN DOING ALL OVER THE WORLD.

[♪♪] STRENGTH IN NUMBERS TAKE A STAND.

RIGHT FROM WRONGS DON'T ASK A MAN♪ ♪ [♪♪] ♪.

>> REVOLUTION, RIGHT, THEN HOW CAN YOU DANCE?

SO.

>> I WILL ASK YOU ABOUT EACH OF THE SONGS.

STICKY RICE.

>> STICKY RICE IS A FOOD SONG BUT IT IS PLAYFUL AND IT'S ABOUT PASSION.

♪HUNGRY PEOPLE, HUNGRY PEOPLE... >> AND SOME OF OUR BEST MOMENTS I THINK AS A BAND ARE THE PLACES WE HAVE EATEN ALL OVER THE WORLD FROM DOWN HOME DINERS TO REALLILE QUANT -- REALLY ELEGANT PLACES.

BUT STICKY RICE IS ONE OF OUR FAVORITE DESSERTS IN THE WORLD.

WE ALL AGREE ABOUT THAT.

WE HAVE TO FIND A PLACE TO GO AFTER THIS.

HURRY UP, BONNIE.

>> BEST KIND OF PERFECT?

>> I WROTE THAT SONG ABOUT CHRISTIE WHO I MARRIED TWO YEARS AGO IN THE MOUNTAINS OF NORTH CAROLINA AND GLORIA STEINEM OFFICIATED THAT AND THAT SONG IS HOW WE MET SEVEN YEARS AGO.

[♪♪] ♪THIS KIND OF PERFECT♪ ♪THIS KIND OF LOVE♪ >> IT WAS CORNY BUT ROMANTIC BUT I GUESS CAN YOU BE GENUINE AND PLAINTIFF AND HAVE AN EDGE?

I DON'T KNOW.

BUT I'M HOPING SO.

>> ALL RIGHT.

AND THEN LITTLE BOY, BOI?

>> IT IS A SONG THAT THE LYRICS I WROTE IT IS ABOUT A JUNIOR-SENIOR RELATIONSHIP.

AND THE THINGS THAT YOU CAN LEARN AND TEACH BY HAVING SOMEONE YOUNGER OR OLDER THAT YOU ARE INVOLVED WITH.

AND THEN IF YOU SPELL IT BOI THEN THE POSSIBILITIES ARE ENDLESS, RIGHT?

[♪♪] AND YOU CAN MIX IT UP HOWEVER YOU WANT TO MIX IT UP AND GET PASSIONATE WITH WHOEVER YOU WANT TO GET PASSIONATE WITH AT ANY AGE.

>> NOT TOO LONG AGO MANUEL WAS ELECTED PRESIDENT -- PRIME MINISTER OF FRANCE.

AND HIS WIFE IS WAY OLDER.

SHE IS IN HER MID-60s AND HE IS IN HIS LATE 30s.

AND WE ALSO HAVE A SITUATION HERE WHERE THE PRESIDENT IS 70 WITH A WIFE IN HER LATE 40s.

SO TELL ME ABOUT HOW YOUR MUSIC ADDRESSES THAT ISSUE?

>> WELL, THAT SPECIFIC SONG DOES BECAUSE IT'S A PLAY AND IT'S A PLAY ON THE WORDS AND A PLAY ON THE SENSIBILITIES I WILL BE DECEMBER AND YOU BE MAY.

SO IT'S PLAYFUL BUT IT ALSO DOES HOPEFULLY MAKE A STATEMENT IN THAT WHY CAN'T WE HAVE THOSE RELATIONSHIPS HERE?

AND CELEBRATE SOMETHING THAT A WOMAN MIGHT BE OLDER THAN A MAN AND YOU KNOW, KIND OF REVEL IN THOSE RELATIONSHIPS AND REVEL, I THINK, GRASP THE BEAUTIFUL FEMININITY THAT A WOMAN HAS AT ANY AGE.

AND NO COMMENT IF A MAN HAS A YOUNGER GIRLFRIEND OR WIFE I THINK THAT IS ACCEPTED NORM.

YOU KNOW AND HOPEFULLY THEY ARE BOTH IN A RELATIONSHIP THAT'S PARITY THERE.

BUT I CELEBRATE IT REVERSELY.

>> DOES IT NOT MAKE SENSE THAT IT'S FINE FOR A MAN TO BE THE OLDER ONE BUT AT LEAST IN THIS COUNTRY, ANYWAY.

THE FRENCH DON'T CARE AS WE TALKED ABOUT.

BUT IN THIS COUNTRY, IT'S STILL LOOKED AT COCKEYED.

>> CRAZY.

OF COURSE A WOMAN SHOULD BE OLDER.

DON'T WE GET BETTER AS WE AGE?

>> AND WE LIVE LONGER.

>> WE LIVE LONGER AND WE ARE SEXIER.

AND WE HAVE SO MANY MORE THINGS TO TALK ABOUT AND WE KNOW THE FOOD WE LIKE.

AND YOU KNOW, WE LIKE -- WE KNOW WHAT WE LIKE.

I SAY THAT IS REFRESHING.

>> THERE WAS AN OFF BROADWAY MUSICAL CALLED BETTY RULES ALL ABOUT THE GROUP.

HOW DID THAT COME ABOUT AND WHAT WAS IT ABOUT?

>> WE WERE IN NEW YORK.

AND MICHAEL GRIF WHO IS A CELEBRATED DIRECTOR AT THAT POINT WAS JUST STARTING LIKE WE ALL WERE IN OUR FIELDS.

AND HE ASKED US AFTER A BENEFIT HE HEARD SONGS SO WE DID THE MUSIC FOR ONE OF HIS PRODUCTIONS OF CLOUD 9 UP IN THE BERKSHIRE THEATER FESTIVAL AND WE STAYED GREAT FRIENDS AND HE SAID WHY DON'T YOU WRITE SOMETHING FOR A SHOW ABOUT THE BAND.

SO WE WROTE A FAN TASS CAL CRAZY SPY THING AND WHEN HE GOT IT HE CALLED AND SAID NO, WRITE ABOUT WHAT YOU REALLY DID AND WHO YOU REALLY ARE.

WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT FOR BEING GIRLS IN A BAND FOR OVER 30 YEARS AND PROTESTING, MAKING MUSIC, FALLING IN LOVE, BLACK AND JEWISH TOGETHER, STRAIGHT AND GAY TOGETHER, POLITICAL, THERE WAS A STORY TO TELL AND HERE IN WASHINGTON PEOPLE APPRECIATED IT, TOO BECAUSE WE BROUGHT IT BACK HERE.

>> FEMINISTS WERE CRITICIZED MANY YEARS AGO I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S CURRENT BUT FOR LACKING HUMOR.

AND YET YOU GUYS ARE ALL ABOUT HUMOR, RIGHT.

TELL ME ABOUT THAT.

>> I THINK ANYBODY THAT WOULD SAY THAT FEMME IN MY OPINION IS DEVOID OF HUMANER IS A TRUMPED UP MISOGYNIESIC -- I THINK I THINK SOME OF THE FUNNIEST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD ARE WOMEN AND MOST ARE FEMINISTS BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO BE REALLY SMART TO BE FUNNY.

AND THAT IS CRAZY TO SAY OR THINK.

I WILL STAMP IT OUT ON THE GROUND.

GOOD YOU ARE LAUGHING.

GREAT, YAY!

>> AND THERE'S BEEN A RESURGENCE OF FEMINISM AMONG YOUNG WOMEN IN RESPONSE TO THE 2016 ELECTION, 11,000 ACCORDING TO EMILY'S LIST, YOUNG WOMEN OUT THERE RUNNING FOR OFFICE AT ALL LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT.

>> I HOPE.

SO.

>> HAS THIS BEEN TOO LONG A TIME IN COMING OR DO YOU THINK WOMEN ARE RIGHT NOW ARE MOVING FORWARD OR BACKWARDS.

>> BONNIE, I HOPE WE ARE MOVING FORWARDS.

ANYBODY THAT SAID THAT THERE HAS TO BE RESURGENCE OF FEMINISM OR LIKE LEFT OR IT WAS GONE YOU HAVE TO BE A FEMINIST AND FEMINISM HAS TO BE AT THE FOREFRONT OF EVERYTHING BECAUSE IT IS THE ONLY WAY THINGS ARE GOING TO CHANGE AND BECOME GOOD WHEN WOMEN HAVE EQUAL POWER AND EQUAL SAY AND EQUAL ECONOMIC STRENGTH.

THAT IS THE ONLY WAY THAT THIS WORLD IS GOING TO SURVIVE.

I THINK I MEAN, RIGHT?

YEAH?

>> I AM NOT ALLOWED TO TAKE A POSITION.

>> OK.

BUT ALL RIGHT I WILL PUT IT OUT THERE AND THEN.

MAYBE IT WILL BOUNCE OFF THE WALLS AND SAY, YEAH.

THAT IS WHAT I BELIEVE AND WHAT MOST OF THE THINKING CARING PEOPLE NEED TO BELIEVE.

>> NOW, YOUR AUDIENCES ARE THEY MAINLY WOMEN?

>> NO, THEY ARE NOT.

THEY VARY.

WHEN WE FIRST STARTED, I THINK THAT WE HAD A LARGE GAY MALE CROWD HERE IN WASHINGTON.

AND THEN WE DID THINGS FOR NPR AND WE WERE THE COMMENTATORS FOR THE HOLIDAY COMMENTATORS.

SO WE GOT THAT KIND OF CROWD.

AND THEN -- >> HBO.

YOU DID A LOT WITH HBO AND TELEVISION?

>> WE GOT OUR FIRST TELEVISION SHOW IT WAS FOR KIDS.

IT WAS CALLED ENCYCLOPEDIA.

SO THAT MADE US MOVE TO NEW YORK.

SO WE PACKED UP OUR TRUNK AND HEADED TO NEW YORK THE BIG CITY.

AND WE GOT OUR FIRST TELEVISION SHOW AND WE PERFORMED ON AIR AND WROTE ALL THESE DIFFERENT SONGS FOR ENCYCLOPEDIA.

>> AND THAT WAS TEACHING KIDS ABOUT VOCABULARY.

>> DEFINITIONS IN A SUBVERSIVE WAY.

IT WAS THE SAME YEAR AS PEE-WEE'S PLAYHOUSE.

I WOULD LIKE TO THINK THERE WERE CRAZY THINGS ON TELEVISION FOR KIDS.

>> TELL ME ABOUT SOME OF THE LYRICS THAT WERE SUBVERSIVE?

>> WE TAUGHT THEM -- LET ME THINK.

IT WAS ALSO THE WAY WE LOOKED AND PERFORMED.

AND WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT LADY BUGS AND ONE SONG WE WROTE FOR THEM WAS ABOUT A LADY BUG BEING INDIGNANT TO A FARMER'S DAUGHTER AND THE LADY BUG LOOKS UP AND SAYS MY NAME IS HAROLD WHY WAS I CALLED A LADY BUG IN THE FIRST PLACE AND THE FARMER'S DAUGHTER IS PERPLEXED.

TWISTY THINGS SO YOU ARE LEARNING ABOUT DEFINITIONS OF A WORD BUT YOU ARE MAY BE THINKING TWICE ABOUT SOMETHING THAT YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE THOUGHT TWICE ABOUT BEFORE.

SOME OF THOSE SONGS STAY IN OUR MUSICAL VOCABULARY THAT WE BRING OUT IN SHOWS SOMETIMES AND PEOPLE STOP US AND SAY THAT THEY GREW UP WITH ENCYCLOPEDIA AND GRADUATED TO THE OTHER PERVERTED THINGS THAT WE HAVE DONE SINCE THEN OR PERVERSE OR FUN.

WE WENT FROM ENCYCLOPEDIA TO REAL SEX AND DID THE THEME SONGS FOR THAT.

AND THAT WAS ON HBO.

AND OTHER THINGS AND THEN THE L WORD A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW US FOR WHAT WE DID FOR THE L WORD.

>> AND THAT WAS A SHOW.

>> SHOWTIME.

>> SHOWTIME.

>> WE'VE BEEN LUCKY TO DO A LOT OF DIFFERENT TELEVISION SHOWS.

SINCE WE ARE AN INDEPENDENT BAND WE HAD OUR MUSIC PLACED IN A LOT OF DIFFERENT VENUES.

AND A GREAT PIECE THAT WE DID THE SOUND SCAPE FOR.

SO I THINK YOU HAVE TO BE A LITTLE BIT OF RENAISSANCE PERSON IN THE MUSIC BUSINESS.

AND IF YOU WANT TO LAST FOR A WHILE AND GET YOUR HANDS IN LOTS OF DIFFERENT THINGS ARTISTICLY.

>> AND HOW DOES IT WORK WHEN YOU PLAY OVERSEAS?

>> GREAT.

IT DEPENDS WHERE WE ARE PLAYING BUT IT IS USUALLY A YOUNGER AUDIENCE THAT KNOWS US FROM THE L WORD OR OTHER THINGS WE HAVE DONE THERE.

AND WE CAME BACK FROM A FESTIVAL WHICH WAS 5,000 GIRLS FROM UP NORTH AND NORTHERN EUROPE AND THAT WAS FUN.

AND WE ARE GOING BACK LATER AND WE ARE ACTUALLY PUTTING ON A MUSIC FESTIVAL IN TEL AVIV CALLED WOMEN FOR A QUHANG AND WE ARE EXCITED ABOUT THAT THAT IS GOING TO BE GREAT.

>> WHO ARE THE MUSICIANS?

>> WE ARE TALKING TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE, BIG ABS AND SMALLER ACTS AND JOINING FORCES WITH PEOPLE AND BRING PEOPLE WITH US TO CHANGE THE NARRATIVE ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE THINK.

>> IN WHAT WAY?

>> THERE'S BEEN DISTRESSING THINGS THAT I HEARD THAT YOU CANNOT BE A FEMINIST AND A ZIONIST AT THE SAME TIME AND THERE ARE PROBLEMS IN ISRAEL LIKE IN ANY COUNTRY BUT I DON'T THINK YOU DEN 2K3WR5EUD SOMEBODY FOR AN A-- DENIGRATE SOMEBODY FOR AN AFFILIATION THEY HAVE WITH A COUNTRY AND CANNOT BE PART OF THE BIGGER PICTURE AS FEMINISTS.

I THINK THAT WAS AN INFLAMMATORY AND CRAZY THING TO SAY.

SO I THINK AT THIS POINT IN THE WORLD YOU HAVE TO JOIN FORCES, AND FIND THE COMMONALITY AND THE GOOD AND YOU KNOW THE UNIVERSAL FEELINGS THAT WE ALL HAVE FOR MOVING MOVEMENTS FORWARD INSTEAD OF DISSECTING AND PITTING PEOPLE AGAINST EACH OTHER.

>> CURIOUS...

IN THE ROCK FESTIVAL YOU ARE PUTTING TOGETHER, THERE WILL BE MUSLIM WOMEN?

>> OF COURSE.

OF COURSE.

ISRAELI ARABS AND PALESTINIAN, TOO.

IF THEY WOULD WANT TO.

AND JOINING FORCES.

AND I THINK IT WOULD BE GREAT IF WOMEN ARE AT THE FOREFRONT OF THINGS.

WOMEN CAN CHANGE THINGS AND GET A BIGGER DIALOGUE AND HAVE A BIGGER IMPACT IN THE WORLD WE KNOW THAT.

>> AND YOU ALSO ARE DOING SOME TOURING FOR THE STATE DEPARTMENT.

TELL ME ABOUT THAT.

>> WE VERY CURIOUS BONNIE THANK YOU FOR BEING SO CURIOUS.

BUT ANYWAY WITH WE HAVE BEEN DOING SOME AMAZING WORK FOR THE STATE DEPARTMENT AMAZING WORK THAT A LOT OF US DON'T KNOW IS OUT THERE.

THE RESOURCES THAT WERE THERE AND THAT IS ANOTHER STORY.

BUT WE WERE ABLE TO TRAVEL THROUGH SOUTH AMERICA, THROUGH EASTERN EUROPE, THROUGH INDIA, THROUGH MEXICO, OUTREACH PROGRAMS TO DISENFRANCHISED PEOPLE AND COMMUNITIES AND WOMEN AND GIRLS AND LGBT COMMUNITIES AND SOME OF THE WORK WE WERE ABLE TO DO WAS LIFE CHANGING FOR ALL OF US.

I'M SORRY TO SAY AND AFRAID THAT THAT FUNDING IS NOW GOING TO GO AWAY.

SO INVOLVING DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES TOGETHER AND REACHING OUT AS AMERICANS AND MUSIC MAKERS AND FOR THESE PEOPLE TO FIND A VOICE THROUGH CHANGE AND EMPOWERMENT IS GOING TO BE HARDER.

SO WE WILL HAVE TO DO IT IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR.

>> DO YOU THINK YOUR PRESENCE IN THE COUNTRIES EMPOWERED WOMEN AND GIRLS THERE?

TELL ME ABOUT THE IMPACT?

>> WELL, I WOULD HOPE SO.

I KNOW THAT THE WORK WE DID IN INDIA WE WERE ABLE TO WORK WITH KIDS WHO HAD BEEN SEX TRAFFICKED.

AND WE DID A WORKSHOP ABOUT FINDING YOUR VOICE AND THEN THEY PERFORMED WITH US AFTER THE WORKSHOP WAS FINISHED AFTER THREE DAYS.

AND THEY PERFORMED THE SONG RISE WITH US AND WITH THE PERFORMER IT WAS LIFE CHANGING AND BEAUTIFUL.

AND I THINK MOST MUSICIANS I KNOW DREAM OF BEING ABLE TO HAVE SOME KIND OF INFLUENCE OR MAKE IMPACT WITH CHILDREN OR WITH YOUNG WOMEN AND COMMUNITIES THAT FEEL LIKE THEY ARE LESS EMPOWERED THAT THEY DON'T HAVE A VOICE 0 THAT THEY WANT TO BE PROUD ABOUT WHO THEY ARE AND WHAT THEY COULD STAND FOR.

IF YOU HAVE PEOPLE THAT COME IN AND FACILITATE THAT IT IS AMAZING TO BE ABLE TO DO.

>> WE TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT ONE OF YOUR MORE RECENT CD'S.

TELL ME ABOUT THE EVOLUTION THAT YOUR MUSIC IS UNDERGOING IN YOUR LATEST CD?

>> I THINK AFTER EVERYBODY GOT OUT OF BED AFTER THE ELECTION AND KIND OF RESURRECTED TO A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF I DON'T KNOW, LIFE, THAT PEOPLE STARTED TRYING TO DO THINGS POSITIVELY.

AND A LOT OF THINGS THAT WE'RE DOING ARE YOU KNOW, I MEAN WE ARE MUSICIANS SO WE ARE WRITING SONGS AND TRYING TO DO AS MUCH GOOD AS POSSIBLE BY GETTING OUT THERE AND HELPING PEOPLE YOU KNOW FIND THEIR VOICE AND BE STRONG.

A RECENT SONG OF OURS IS MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

NOTHING'S GOING TO CHANGE, NOTHING'S GOING TO GIVE, NOTHING'S GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE ♪EVERYONE I KNOW♪ ♪ALL OF IT IS GONE♪ ♪AND I SHOULD HAVE MADE A DIFFERENCE♪ ♪COULD HAVE MADE A DIFFERENCE♪ ♪SOMEONE'S GOT TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE IKS.

>> TAKING THE NEGATIVE PART AND DOUBLING IT SO IT BECOMES A POSITIVE AND THEN MOVING FORWARD.

I KNOW IT SOUNDS TRITE BUT WE HAVE TO BE MAKING A DIFFERENCE OTHERWISE OUR RIGHTS WILL ERODE.

>> BUT WHAT FROM A POLITICAL PERSPECTIVE FROM WHERE I SIT, THERE IS A REPUBLICAN CONGRESS IN CONTROL.

MOST EXPERTS ARE SAYING THERE'S PRESIDENT TRUMP IS NOT GOING TO GET IMPEACHED NOT ANYTIME SOON WHAT ELSE CAN YOUR FOLLOWERS DO?

WHAT ARE YOU ENTICING THEM AND TREATING THEM TO TRY TO DO TO CHANGE THINGS?

>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE ENSIZING PEOPLE TO -- ENTICING PEOPLE TO CHANGE THINGS.

BUT IF YOU ARE WILLING AND ABLE TO TRY TO WORK FOR A GOOD CHANGE THEN HOPEFULLY WE ARE ENTERTAINING YOU ALONG THE WAY SO YOU CAN KEEP YOUR MORALE UP AND HEAR A SONG THAT MIGHT INSPIRE YOU OR HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE YOU KNOW, MARCHING WITH YOU.

OR I THINK YOU NEED INSPIRATION AND THAT IS ONE OF THE GREAT THINGS YOU KNOW ABOUT ART IS THAT AND THE MOMENTS WHERE YOU FEEL BLEAK AND THINGS SEEM DESPAIRING IF YOU LISTEN TO A SONG OR SEEING A BEAUTIFUL PAINTING OR READ A POEM OR HAVE A WAY TO DANCE OR SOMETHING, IT MAY BE PROPELS YOU FORWARD A LITTLE BIT.

AND I THINK THAT EVERY ARTIST HAS A BIG RESPONSIBILITY NOW IN OUR COUNTRY TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE ARE MOTIVATED AND ENTERTAINED AND INSPIRED TO DO THE WORK THAT WE NEED TO DO TO MOVE THIS COUNTRY FORWARD AS OPPOSED TO BEING A BACKWARD MOTION THAT I FEEL LIKE IS HAPPENING NOW GIVING AWAY OUR RIGHTS AND MAKING THIS COUNTRY GO BACK TO THE DARK AGES.

>> DO YOU -- YOU GUYS HAVE HAD SOME INCREDIBLE GIGS YOU HAVE TO AN OFF BROADWAY PLAY PRODUCED ABOUT YOU AND TO DO ALL THE WORK YOU'VE DONE ON TV ET CETERA.

BUT DO YOU FIND THE MUSIC INDUSTRY TO BE WELCOMING TO WOMEN?

>> YOU ASK GOOD QUESTIONS.

HAVE PEOPLE TOLD YOU THAT BEFORE?

>> NO, BUT THANK YOU.

>> CAN WE EAT AFTER THIS, BY THE WAY.

OH, MUSIC INDUSTRY.

I THINK ONCE YOU HAVE BEEN IN SOMETHING FOR A LONGTIME YOU LOSE PERSPECTIVE.

AND WE'VE HAD SO MANY DIFFERENT EXPERIENCES OVER THE LENGTH OF OUR CAREER ABOUT MAKING IT OR I MEAN LIKE NOT MAKING IT OR LONGEVITY OR IS THAT BAD YOU CANNOT SAY YOU HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR A LONGTIME AND AFTER A POINT YOU DO, YOU'RE PROUD TO SAY THAT YOU HAVE BEEN DOING IT FOR A LONGTIME BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE AMAZED.

♪YOU COULD BE MY JERUSALEM♪ ♪YOU COULD BE MY JERUSALEM♪ ♪HELPING YOU BELIEVE AGAIN♪ ♪TEACHING ME TO DREAM AGAIN♪ ♪YOU COULD BE... >> I THINK WE HAVE BEEN UNDER THE RADAR SOMETIMES OR ASIDE FROM THE MAIN RADAR LIKE POP MUSICIANS.

I DON'T KNOW IF I AM THE BEST PERSON TO TALK ABOUT IT.

BUT -- >> HAVE YOU TALKED TO SOME OF THE BIG FEMALE NAMES IN THE MUSIC INDUSTRY?

AND WHAT ARE THEIR EXPERIENCES?

>> YOU KNOW WE HAVE FRIENDS THAT ARE VERY, VERY SUCCESSFUL, I GUESS SUCCESS IS RELATIVE.

BUT AS FAR AS IF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT MONEY OR EXPOSURE.

AND THEY SAY THAT AS LONG AS THEY ARE AUTHENTIC AND SOME OF OUR FRIENDS WHO IF THERE IS AN AUTHENTICITY AND A PERSEVERANCE AT THE OTHER STUFF THEY CAN USUALLY THROW AWAY.

SO I THINK THAT EVERYBODY'S EXPERIENCE IS UNIQUE.

I THINK MOST PEOPLE THAT MOST WOMEN HAVE HAD CRAZY STORIES ALONG THE WAY.

BUT IF YOU'VE BEEN LUCKY TO HAVE PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN BY YOUR SIDE TO FIGHT WITH YOU AND BELIEVE YOU ALONG THE WAY, TOO, AND BELIEVE IN YOU, I THINK YOU HAVE BEEN LUCKY.

>> WONDERFUL.

WELL, THAT IS FABULOUS.

AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND FOR YOUR WORK.

THAT IS IT FOR THIS EDITION.

FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER @BONNIEERBE AND VISIT OUR WEBSITE, WHICH IS PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.

AND WHETHER YOU AGREE OR THINK TO THE CONTRARY, PLEASE JOIN US NEXT WEEK.

[♪♪] TRANSCRIPT OR TO SEE AN ON-LINE VERSION OF THIS EPISODE OF TO THE CONTRARY VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT AT WEB PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY