THE CONTRARY": FIRST, A CALIFORNIA WOMAN WHOSE STILLBORN BABY HAD METHAMPHETAMINE IN ITS SYSTEM IS CHARGED WITH MURDER.

THEN COHABITATION VERSUS MARRIAGE: THE LATEST TREND.

BEHIND THE HEADLINES: THIS VETERAN'S DAY WEEKEND, WE CELEBRATE THE ACCOMPLISHMENTS OF THE FIRST SERVICE WOMAN IN COMBAT, LITTLE-KNOWN LINDA BRAY.

COMBAT, LITTLE-KNOWN LINDA BRAY.

>> Bonnie: HELLO.

I AM BONNIE ERB.

WELCOME TO "TO THE CONTRARY", DISCUSSION OF NEWS AND SOCIAL TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.

UP FIRST, FETAL HOMICIDE LAWS.

A 25-YEAR-OLD WOMAN IS CHARGED WITH FIRST-DEGREE MURDER IN CALIFORNIA AFTER DELIVERING A STILLBORN.

THE FETUS HAD TOXIC LEVELS OF METHAMPHETAMINE IN ITS BODY ACCORDING TO AUTHORITIES.

POLICE SAY CHELSEA CHEYENNE BECKER LOST CUSTODY IN THE PAST OF SEVERAL CHILDREN DUE TO SUBSTANCE ABUSE.

BECKER TOLD INVESTIGATORS SHE USED METHAMPHETAMINE THREE DAYS BEFORE THE BABY WAS DELIVERED.

CALIFORNIA LAW DEFINES MURDER AS THE UNLAWFUL KILLING OF A HUMAN BEING OR A FETUS WITH MALICE OF FORETHOUGHT.

IT'S ONE OF 38 STATES WITH A FETAL HOMICIDE LAW.

BECKER PLED NOT GUILTY TO THE CHARGE.

REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS ADVOCATES ARGUE CASES OF WOMEN BEING CHARGED AFTER A MISCARRIAGE HAVE BECOME A BURGEONING PATTERN THAT THREATENS WOMEN'S RIGHTS.

ANTIABORTION ACTIVISTS HAVE PUSHED FOR FETAL HOMICIDE AND SO-CALLED PERSONHOOD LAWS WHICH WOULD GRANT FETUSES EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER THE LAW IN ALL CASES.

SO CONGRESSWOMAN ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, ARE FETAL HOMICIDE LAWS CONSTITUTIONAL, >> I SERIOUSLY DOUBT IT, BUT THEY ARE EMERGENCE TODAY SPEAKS TO FRUSTRATION WITH THE DURABILITY OF ROE VERSUS WADE.

>> YEAH.

I THINK THEY ARE.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE HOTLY DEBATED RIGHT NOW.

BUT THESE ARE NOT ALL ONE PERFECT CASE, RIGHT?

THAT'S WHAT WILL BE HARD.

>> THE LOGICAL CONSEQUENCE OF ABORTION BANS IS SENDING WOMEN TO JAIL AND WE ARE ALREADY SEEING THAT HAPPENED IN THE UNITED STATES.

>> LET'S FILE ON WOMEN IN THE MIDST OF MISCARRIAGE.

LET'S MAKE THEIR LIVES WORSE ON THIS.

I THINK IT'S DISGUSTING.

>> I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW CALIFORNIA, NEW YORK AND CALIFORNIA ALWAYS LEAD ON PROGRESSIVE ISSUES IN THEIR COURT SYSTEMS, HOW THIS COULD HAVE COME -- YOU KNOW, BECOME LAW IN CALIFORNIA.

>> YEAH.

I FIND IT'S NOT JUST IN CALIFORNIA, BUT THE COURTS ACQUITTED THEMSELVES SAYING, YEAH, IT'S TRUE NOT CALIFORNIA, BUT IT IS AND THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY.

AND IT'S THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY BECAUSE EVEN CONSERVATIVE SUPREME COURTS HAVE BEEN UNWILLING TO DO MUCH ABOUT ROE VERSUS WADE, AND I DON'T THINK EVEN WITH THE SUPREME COURT -- AND HERE IS A PROGNOSTICATION: I DON'T THINK THAT YOU ARE GOING TO SEE ROE VERSUS WADE OVERTURNED.

I THINK YOU WILL SEE COURTS AS PARTICULARLY IF IT GETS TO SUPREME COURT.

IN RIGHT NOW, IT'S NOT EVEN GETTING TO THE SUPREME COURT'S BECAUSE IT'S BEING OVERTURNED AT COURTS ON THE APPEALS LEVEL.

BUT I DON'T THINK COURTS WANT TO GET INTO THE MIDDLE OF THIS TERRIBLE FIGHT IN OUR COUNTRY.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW THEM BETTER THAN ANYBODY ON THIS PANEL TODAY, ANYWAY.

BRETT KAVANAUGH, FOR EXAMPLE, AND GORSUCH, THEY -- HAVE SAID TO THEMSELVES, AS PEOPLE LIKE ANTONIN SCALIA USED TO SUPPOSEDLY THINK WHY START A REVOLUTION AND OVERTURN IT?

BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY MEANINGLESS.

IT'S MEANINGLESS.

IF YOU CAN HAVE FETAL HOMICIDE LAWS AND 38 STATES, OF WHAT GOOD IS ROE V WADE?

>> WELL, YOU ARE ON THE RIGHT TRACK THERE.

IN FACT, >> BUT THEY ARE SO MUCH FURTHER RIGHT THEN SKYLEA ETC.

>> BUT AT LEAST ONE OF THOSE TWO O WILL STICK BY THE PRESIDENT AND I THINK ROBERTS WILL AS WELL.

SO I AGREE WITH CONGRESSWOMAN THAT ROE IS NOT ENDANGERED.

THEY ARE TRYING TO FIND CLEVER WAYS TO CHIP AWAY.

YOU HAVE FETAL HOMICIDE IN THE WHOLE PERSONHOOD MOVEMENT TRYING TO PASS A PERSONHOOD AMENDMENTS AND IT'S BEEN PASSED IN NINE OR 10 STATES AND OVERTURNED WERE STOPPED IN ABOUT EVERY CASE.

THERE'S ONLY THREE STATES I THINK THAT HAVE PERSONHOOD LANGUAGE IN THEIR CONSTITUTIONS AND IT WOULD NEVER STAND UP TO, YOU KNOW, CONSTITUTIONAL MUSTER EVER.

>> I DON'T SHARE THAT OPTIMISM.

I BELIEVE THAT ROE V WADE IS SERIOUSLY THREATENED AND ENDANGERED IN THE UNITED STATES.

>> BUT HOW MUCH DOES THAT MATTER?

IT ALL THE STATE ABORTION -- ANTIABORTION LAWS THAT ARE STANDING WITH ROE IN FACT.

>> EXACTLY.

THE POINT IS THE UNITED STATES IS RAPIDLY BECOMING MORE AND MORE LIKE EL SALVADOR WHERE THERE IS A TOTAL ABORTION BAN, WHERE WOMEN, WE HAVE MORE THAN ONE DOZEN WOMEN SITTING IN PRISON RIGHT NOW FOR MISCARRIAGES AND WE ARE SEEING THAT NOW WITH THIS CASE, WE ARE SEEING WOMEN UNDER SUSPICION IN VIRGINIA WHERE I LIVE.

IT WAS JUST IN THE PAST COUPLE YEARS A WOMAN NAMED CATHERINE DELLIS WAS ACTUALLY SENTENCED TO FIVE MONTHS IN JAIL AFTER HAVING A STILLBIRTH AT HOME.

SOME PROSECUTOR THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA TO GO AFTER HER.

THE LINK OF ALL THIS -- >> WHAT WAS THE CAUSE?

DO YOU KNOW?

>> SO IN THAT CASE SPECIFICALLY SHE WAS CHARGED WITH IMPROPER CONCEALMENT OF A DEAD BODY.

AND SO THAT SOMETHING ELSE I WANT TO BRING UP WITH THESE FETAL HOMICIDE LAWS AND 38 STATES, THERE IS ACTUALLY A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT STATUTES THAT ARE BEING USED TO PROSECUTE WOMEN EITHER FOR SELF MANAGED ABORTION OR FOR MISCARRIAGE.

>> WHEN THE DO STUFF LIKE THAT, IT STRENGTHENS THE PRO-CHOICE SIDE BECAUSE THEY LOOK SO IDIOTIC.

AND I LOVE -- WELL, I HAVE A LOT OF PRO-LIFE FRIENDS, LOVE THEM DEARLY, BUT I HAVE TO REMIND THEM EVERY TIME THERE HAS BEEN A STATEWIDE INITIATIVE ON THE ISSUE OF CHOICE, THE PRO-CHOICE SIDE ALWAYS WINS, EVEN IN THE CONSERVATIVE STATES.

>> INDEED.

I THINK IT'S A MESSY SITUATION WITH THE CASE WE JUST HEARD FROM FROM CALIFORNIA.

THAT WOMAN'S BABY HAD METHAMPHETAMINE IN ITS SYSTEM, YOU KNOW?

THAT'S UNREAL TO ME.

>> BUT IF IT'S PERSON THAT SHOULD HAVE JUST KNOCKED ON THE WOMB AND SAID, CAN I HAVE A SCREEN SO THIS METHAMPHETAMINE DOES NOT GET INTO MY BLOOD -- I MEAN -- >> THERE ARE THESE THINGS HAPPENING IN THE STATUTES AND IMPROPER CONCEALMENT OF A DEAD BODY.

REMEMBER POUR IT PATEL'S CASE IN INDIANA, SHE GOT 20 YEARS AND THAT WAS SOMETHING WHERE SHE ALSO DID THE SAME -- >> WE NEED THESE WOMEN TO BE COMING OUT AND SAY DO SOMETHING, HELPED ME.

THE MORE REPLENISHED -- PENALIZE THEM THROUGH CRIMINAL LAW, THE LESS LIKELY IT IS TO HAPPEN.

>> THE WRONG QUESTION IS WHY IS A PREGNANT WOMAN OR PERSON USING DRUGS.

THE RIGHT QUESTION IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SOMEONE WHO IS ADDICTED TO DRUGS BECOMES PREGNANT.

WE ARE APPROACHING THIS TOTALLY WRONG FROM A PUBLIC HEALTH PERSPECTIVE.

IT BOGGLES MY MIND AND INFURIATES ME THAT THIS WOMAN THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HAS BEEN CHARGED, SHE HAS $5 MILLION BAIL AGAINST HER.

WHAT IS SHE GOING TO DO?

REALLY?

GIVE ME A BREAK.

>> I THINK WE HAVE AGREEMENT AT THE STABLE ON THIS.

AGAIN, I WOULD IMPROVE -- EMPLOYER MY PRO-LIFE FRIENDS THAT WHEN CASES COME UP, IT DOES NOT HELP THE CAUSE, IT HURTS THEIR CAUSE.

THEY SHOULD BE WORKING WITH US TO A CHASE THROUGH MORE COMMON SENSE AND CONSTRUCTIVE WAY OF HELPING WOMEN, NOT PILING ON.

>> WHY AREN'T YOUNG WOMEN, YOU KNOW, REVOLTING IN THE STREETS?

>> I THINK THAT'S ALREADY STARTED, BONNIE.

AS SOMEONE WHO DOES GRASSROOTS -- THAT'S WHY ASKED YOU.

>> THANK YOU FOR THAT.

FOR ADVANCED REPRODUCTIVE JUSTICE, PEOPLE ARE HOT AND ANGRY.

WE HAVE SEEN THE CONSERVATIVES WHO ARE ANTIABORTION HAVE GOTTEN WAY OVER THEIR SKIS WITH THIS ANTIABORTION BANS THAT ARE HAPPENING AROUND THE COUNTRY.

SO I THINK WE JUST SAW THAT COME TO FRUITION IN VIRGINIA AS WELL WITH THESE PAST WEEK WHERE, YOU KNOW, ANTIABORTION MOVEMENT WAS VOCAL.

NATIONAL MONEY FLOWED IN AND THEY TRIED TO HAVE A HYSTERICAL ANTIABORTION CAMPAIGN WITH INFLAMMATORY RHETORIC.

IT DID NOT TAKE.

>> TO ASK ABOUT YOUNG WOMEN AND I THINK THAT'S THE RIGHT QUESTION ASKED.

I TELL YOU, WITH THE MORNING-AFTER PILL AND INTRA-UTERINE DEVICES NOW, I THINK THEY HAVE IN WAYS TO PREVENT PREGNANCY AND THE WOMEN WE TALKING ABOUT OUR FORMER DESPERATE.

>> WE ARE FAR MORE ACQUAINTED WITH THOSE THINGS.

THEREFORE, THERE IS NOT THAT REVOLT IN THE STREETS.

NO OFFENSE TO YOUR WORK BECAUSE YOUR WORK IS IMPORTANT, BUT I THINK ALSO WOMEN FEEL VERY EMPOWERED NOW.

THEN SOMETIMES THERE ARE BLINDERS ON.

UNTIL IT HAPPENS TO YOU, UNTIL YOU ARE IN THE SCENARIO WHERE YOU NEED TO TERMINATE AN UNWANTED PREGNANCY, YOU'RE NOT REALLY THINKING ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE STATE LAWS LAWS ARE ENTIRELY.

NOT TRYING TO SAY ALL WOMEN ARE NAVE -- >> WOMEN WHO DON'T EVEN WANT TO KNOW THEY ARE PREGNANT WOMEN -- >> AND THEY PRETEND THEY ARE NOT UNTIL THEY ARE FOUR MONTHS AND IT'S TOO LATE.

>> REPUBLICANS ARE PRO-LIFERS BEING OVER THEIR SKIS, LOOK AT ALABAMA WHERE PAT ROBERTSON SAID THE LAW WAS TOO EXTREME.

WOW!

TALK ABOUT BEING OVER YOUR SKIS.

AND IT GOT OVERTURNED.

>> PAT ROBERTSON WILL START A REPUBLICAN PRO-CHOICE MOVEMENT AND REPLACE YOU AS HEAD OF REPUBLICANS FOR SHORT.

LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.

PLEASE FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER AT @BONNIEERB.

FROM FETAL HOMICIDE TO MARRIAGE: MORE AMERICANS ACCEPT THE CONCEPT THAT COHABITATION WITHOUT MARRIAGE, EVEN HAVING CHILDREN OUT OF WEDLOCK, IS ACCEPTABLE.

ACCORDING TO A NEW PEW RESEARCH CENTER SURVEY.

COHABITING IS NOW MORE PREVALENT THAN MARRIAGE WITH ALMOST 60 PERCENT OF AMERICANS BETWEEN THE AGES OF 18 AND 44 HAVING LIVED WITH A PARTNER.

THAT'S A BIGGER NUMBER THAN THE 50 PERCENT OF AMERICANS WHO HAVE EVER BEEN MARRIED.

A MAJORITY OF ADULTS ALSO SAY UNMARRIED COUPLES WHO ARE LIVING TOGETHER CAN RAISE CHILDREN JUST AS WELL AS MARRIED COUPLES.

65 PERCENT THINK UNMARRIED COUPLES SHOULD BE ABLE TO ENTER INTO LEGAL AGREEMENTS THAT WOULD GIVE THEM THE SAME RIGHTS AS MARRIED COUPLES WHEN IT COMES TO FINANCIAL ISSUES SUCH AS HEALTH INSURANCE, INHERITANCE, OR TAX BENEFITS.

ON THE OTHER HAND, THE SURVEY FINDS MARRIED ADULTS MORE SATISFIED WITH THE DIVISION OF HOUSEHOLD CHORES, HOW A PARTNERS HANDLES WORKLIFE BALANCE, A NUMBER OF RELATIONSHIP TRUST ISSUES THAN THOSE WHO ARE COHABITING.

SO, RINA, YOU ARE VERY MARRIED WITH TWO CHILDREN.

BUT HIS MARRIAGE ON THE WAY OUT?> YEAR FIVE.

THAT'S WHERE I'M SITTING AT.

YEAH.

I THINK MARRIAGE IS ON THE WAY OUT.

THAT SADDENS ME BECAUSE THE CONSERVATIVE PART OF ME, JUST OVER AND OVER, I THINK WHEN YOU LIVE TOGETHER, THERE IS NO NEED TO MAKE IT OFFICIAL FROM EITHER SIDE.

I'M NOT SAYING A MAN DOES NOT FEEL THE NEED TO PROPOSE A WOMAN.

I WAS NOT EVEN PROPOSE TO.

THERE WAS NONE OF THAT FORMALITY BECAUSE I WAS LIKE, LOOK, DON'T GET IT DOWN ON WHEN ONE KNEE AND ALL THAT STUFF.

I LIKE TO THINK OF VERY MODERN.

BUT WE ALSO BELIEVE THAT WE COULD MOVE IN TOGETHER ONCE WE WERE ENGAGED.

WE NEVER THOUGHT WE WOULD.

PROBABLY OUR UPBRINGING MADE US THAT WAY, BUT I REALLY -- I SEE FRIENDS AND HAVE SEEN OVER THE YEARS, THEY SUFFER AFTER LIVING TOGETHER FOR YEARS AND THERE IS NO COMMITMENT, IT SEEMS.

I GET IS JUST A PIECE OF PAPER TO A LOT OF PEOPLE.

BUT THERE IS SOMETHING THERE.

MARRIAGE MEANS SOMETHING STILL IN SOCIETY.

TO SEE IT ON ITS WAY OUT SADDENS ME.

I THINK THERE IS REALLY THE AMERICAN FAMILY ISN'T REALLY I THINK THERE IS REALLY THE AMERICAN FAMILY ISN'T REALLY LOSING ITSELF AND IT'S FALLING APART.

>> YEAH.

BUT STILL, APPARENTLY MORE PEOPLE MAY NOT UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS -- THERE IS MUCH TO MARRIAGE ITSELF.

I THINK THAT WHAT MAY BE PROMPTING SOME OF THIS IS THESE YOUNG PEOPLE HAVE SEEN DIVORCE, AND THEY ARE BEING INFLUENCED BY THE VOICE ITSELF AND HOW UGLY IT CAN BE AND THINK THAT MAYBE NOT BEING MARRIED AND JUST BEING TOGETHER IS A BETTER WAY TO FIGURE IT OUT.

>> BUT IS THE WOMAN ALWAYS A LOSER WHEN IT COMES -- I MEAN, THEY ARE STATE PATERNITY LAWS THAT ARE ENFORCED AGAINST FATHERS AND HAVE BEEN FOR 20 YEARS NOW, EVEN UNMARRIED FATHERS.

ALL YOU NEED IS A DNA TEST TO PROVE THAT HE'S THE FATHER.

SO THAT WAS ALWAYS TO ME ONE BENEFIT OF MARRIAGE THAT I THOUGHT WOMEN WERE REALLY NOT THINKING RIGHT TO FORGO.

BUT I HAVE HAD PEOPLE, PEOPLE TELL ME, MY PARENTS WERE MARRIED AND THEY GOT DIVORCED AND MY MOTHER WAS STILL IN POVERTY.

SO WHY BOTHER WITH MARRIAGE?

>> IN THE OLD DAYS, MARRIAGE WAS AN ECONOMIC ARRANGEMENT, LIKE WAY BACK.

WE ARE SORT OF INVENTED THE IDEA OF MARRIAGE FOR LOVE.

THE PENDULUM HAS SWUNG A BIT AGAINST MARRIAGE.

I THINK YOU WILL SEE IT SWING BACK.

ALTHOUGH, IRONICALLY, IN MY FAMILY, MY SISTER AND I ARE THE TWO THAT COHABITED.

HAVE BEEN ENGAGED FOR 16 YEARS AND PEOPLE SAY, WHEN YOU GETTING MARRIED?

[LAUGHTER] >> WHAT YOU'RE NOT WORRIED ABOUT HAVING KIDS.

>> EXACTLY.

IF I WAS, I WOULD BE MORE INCLINED PROBABLY TO DO SO.

I HAVE BEEN MARRIED BEFORE AND WE SAW HOW THAT WORKED OUT.

[LAUGHTER] >> YOU WANT TO TELL THE AUDIENCE WHO YOUR EX IS?

>> I WILL SAY THIS, ELLEN KEY IS ONE SENSE TO ME, SEX IS SO MUCH BETTER IN MARRIAGE.

I WENT, NOT NECESSARILY.

>> DEPENDS WHO YOU ARE MARRIED TO.

>> I DON'T SHARE RENO'S PESSIMISM.

I DON'T THINK MARRIAGE IS ON THE WAY OUT.

I THINK WHAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT THIS NEW STUDY OF COHABITATION IS ACTUALLY A DIFFERENT PROBLEM.

I THINK IT'S WONDERFUL IF YOU WERE IN LOVE ANYONE MOVE IN WITH SOMEONE.

GO FOR IT, THAT'S GREAT.

THE QUESTION IS, THEY ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT GETTING MARRIED BECAUSE OF FINANCES.

AND I THINK THAT -- >> COST OF REAL ESTATE.

>> RIGHT.

I THINK WHAT WE ARE ACTUALLY DANCING ON THE PROCESS OF, IT'S A DIFFERENT ISSUE WHICH IS ECONOMIC ISSUES AND IN PARTICULAR HOW HARD IT IS FOR YOUNG PEOPLE TO GET AHEAD WITH THESE CRUSHING DEBT FROM STUDENT LOANS , ETC.. THAT'S WHAT I'M -- >> LET'S NOT FORGET WHAT?

>> THE FEAR OF MISSING OUT.

PEOPLE ARE POSTING WEDDINGS.

IF YOU ARE NOT HAVING A BLOCKBUSTER BEDWETTING POSTING ABOUT -- >> THAT'S ANOTHER THING.

IT'S RIDICULOUS.>> IT'S EXPENSIVE TO GET MARRIED.

HAVING A RECEPTION FOR MAYBE 80 PEOPLE IS A LOT FOR ANYBODY THESE DAYS.

>> I'VE BEEN TO COOL WEDDINGS THIS PAST YEAR, MOSTLY DESTINATION.

SMALLER, NOT THE USUAL BLOWOUT BUT REALLY WONDERFUL THE ONES THAT THEY DO HAVE.

IN MY FAMILY, THE CURRENT GENERATION, THEY ARE THE ONES GETTING MARRIED BEFORE THEY HAVE CHILDREN.

EXCEPT 1/14 NIECES AND NEPHEWS, I THINK I HAVE ONE COHABITING AND THE REST GOT MARRIED.

>> ARE THERE STILL STUDIES THAT SHOW, AS I KNOW THERE WERE 20 YEARS AGO, BUT THAT WOMEN ARE ALWAYS WORSE OFF IN SITUATIONS WHERE THEY HAVE CHILDREN OUT OF WEDLOCK, >> OH, ABSOLUTELY.

>> WE ARE WORSE OFF AFTER DIVORCE TOO.

>> BUT WHICH -- AFTER WHICH -- BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY, COHABITING, THOSE RELATIONSHIPS BREAK UP JUST AS MUCH AS MARRIED COUPLES.

>> AND WHO GETS, "STUCK WITH THE CHILDREN," WHEN THEY BREAK OFF, ALWAYS THE WOMEN AND RAISING KIDS -- >> I'M ASKING IF YOU KNOW, OR WOMEN IN BETTER OR WORSE FINANCIAL SHAPE IF THEY WERE MARRIED TO THE FATHER OF THEIR CHILDREN AND THE COHABITATION FALLS APART?

>> IF THEY WERE MARRIED, ARE YOU TALKING IN TERMS OF -- >> LAWS ARE STILL BETTER FOR AN EX-WIFE MAN AND EX-PARTNER.

>> THAT IS SOMETHING OVER THE TO SEE GO TO COURT POINT IF A PARTNER IS IN EVERY RESPECT INCLUDING CHILDREN, I THINK A COURT WOULD UPHOLD THE SAME RIGHTS FOR HER AS FOR A MARRIED COUPLE.

>> WE HAVE TO GET DEADBEAT DAD LAWS AND THINGS -- >> WE WERE COVERING THAT [CROSS TALK] >> WAIT A SECOND.

I DON'T THINK THAT'S TRUE.

>> IT'S TAKEN THREE YEARS AND THE GUY IS -- IS $250,000 BEHIND!

>> BUT 20 YEARS AGO, WE WENT TO CALIFORNIA BECAUSE THEY WERE ONE OF THE FIRST STATES TO HAVE A LAW AGAINST, YOU KNOW, THAT THEY HAD TO PAY PATERNITY WHETHER THEY WERE MARRIED OR NOT.

AND THEY WERE ENFORCING IT.

>> BUT IT'S STILL BAD.

I'M TELLING YOU.

I KNOW OF PEOPLE RIGHT NOW TODAY IN THE MIDDLE OF CASES.

THIS ONE POOR WOMAN, MY GOD, DID NOT KNOW WHERE HER NEXT RENT CHECK WAS GOING TO COME FROM AND THE GUY OWES ÃTHAT SHE IS NOW BEHIND 250,000 BETWEEN WHAT HE HOSTED WAS OR FOR ELEMENTARY AND OWES HER IN CHILD SUPPORT.

>> POOR WOMAN.

>>> BEHIND THE HEADLINES: FOR VETERAN'S DAY, THE AMERICAN FEMALE COMBAT OFFICER TO LEAD TROOPS, THE FIRST TO LEAD TROOPS INTO BATTLE.

LINDA BRAY MADE HISTORY BUT SHE ALSO IGNITED A FIERCE DEBATE OVER THE ROLE OF WOMEN IN THE MILITARY.

NOW ALMOST 30 YEARS LATER, WE SPEAK TO THE JOURNALIST WHO BROKE THE STORY.

>> ON DECEMBER 1989, THE UNITED STATES INVADED PANAMA TO OVERTHROW MANUAL, NORIEGA WHO WAS A DICTATOR.

ON THE NIGHT OF THE INVASION, THE UNITED STATES ATTACKED SIMULTANEOUSLY ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

A COUPLE DAYS LATER, I WAS DRIVING UP TO CORY HEIGHTS WHERE THE U.S. MILITARY COMMAND WAS HEADQUARTERED AND AN MP STOPPED ME AT THE GATE.

AND I -- SHE SAID SHE WAS ASKING ME WHAT I WAS DOING AND WHY WAS THERE AND SEARCHING THE CAR AND WHILE WE WERE DOING THIS, I STARTED TALKING TO HER.

I ASKED WHAT I ASK ALL OF THEM.

DID YOU SEE ACTION?

REALLY, I WAS BEING POLITE BECAUSE AT THAT POINT, WOMEN WERE BANNED FROM COMBAT ESSENTIALLY.

AND SHE WAS AT THE HEADQUARTERS AND I REALLY DID NOT THINK SHE HAD SEEN ANYTHING.

BUT SHE LET ON SHE HAD AND I SAID, WELL, WOULD YOU TALK TO ME ABOUT IT?

>> PETER COPELAND SAYS HE BROKE HIS STORY BY ACCIDENT BECAUSE THE FIRST WOMAN TO LEAD TROOPS INTO BATTLE DID SO BY ACCIDENT.

THE U.S. MILITARY POLICY BACK THEN END WOMEN FROM FIGHTING.

>> WOMEN HAVE ALWAYS BEEN INVOLVED IN THE MILITARY.

TECHNICALLY, THEY WERE KEPT OUT OF COMBAT UNITS, BUT THAT DID NOT MEAN REALLY THEY WERE KEPT OUT OF COMBAT.

I DON'T THINK ANYONE ATTENDED FOR THIS TO HAPPEN IN PANAMA, BUT WOMEN AT THAT POINT WERE SO INTEGRATED INTO THE FORCE, THEY WERE ONLY ABOUT 4 PERCENT OF THE TROOPS WHO INVADED PANAMA.

BUT THEY WERE IN KEY POSITIONS LIKE THE MP'S WHICH IS THE MILITARY POLICE ARE TECHNICALLY NOT A COMBAT ARMS UNIT.

THIS IS JUST AN ARMY DISTINCTION.

>> LINDA BRAY WAS ORDERED TO LEAD A GROUP OF MEN AND WOMEN TO NEUTRALIZE AN ENEMY ATTACK DOG KENNEL.

BESIDES THE DOGS, THE KENNEL TURNED OUT TO HOUSE SOME HEAVILY ARMED PANAMANIAN TROOPS> SHE DROVE DOWN IN HER HUMVEE, REALIZED THE FIGHTING WAS STILL GOING ON.

SHE USED HER HUMVEE TO CRASH OPEN THE GATE.

SHE DREW HER WEAPON AND STARTED FIRING AT THE PANAMANIANS WHO WERE FIRING BACK AT HER TROOPS.

BACK AND FORTH PRETTY MUCH MOST OF THE NIGHT.

THE NEXT MORNING THEY WENT DOWN THERE AND THE BASE, THE PANAMANIAN BASE WAS DESERTED, THAT THE PANAMANIANS HAD ESCAPED DURING THE NIGHT.

>> BRAY HAD SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETED HER MISSION.

WHILE MAKING HISTORY.

>> THEN, UNFORTUNATELY, IT BECAME CONTROVERSIALEOPLE WHO WERE OPPOSED DURING COMBAT SAY WE'VE GONE TOO FAR AND THE ARMY HAS TO TIGHTEN UP ON THE BAN ON WOMEN IN COMBAT.

PEOPLE ON THE OTHER SIDE LED BY PAT SCHROEDER WHO WAS A CONGRESSWOMAN FROM COLORADO, SAID THIS IS EVIDENCE, PROOF THAT THE COMBAT BAN SHOULD BE LIFTED, BECAUSE HERE IS THIS PERSON, LINDA BRAY, WHO LED TROOPS IN COMBAT.

ADMIRABLY.

EVERYONE SAID SHE DID A GOOD JOB AND DID WHAT SHE WAS TOLD.

GOT HER TROOPS OUT SAFELY.

>> REPRESENTATIVE SCHROEDER INTRODUCED A BILL TO ALLOW A PERIOD OF TESTING FOR WOMEN IN COMBAT ROLES, BUT HER EFFORT DIED AFTER TOP GENERALS LOBBIED AGAINST IT.

BRAY LATER REPORTED BEING DISAPPOINTED BY HOW THE MILITARY BRASS RESPONDED TO THE SITUATION.

>> WHEN SHE WENT HOME, SHE INTENDED TO MAKE THE ARMY HER CAREER, AND HER OTHER OFFICERS AND PEOPLE THAT SHE WORKED WITH, THEY WERE RESENTFUL.

THERE WAS A LOT OF POLITICS HAPPENING.

THEY MADE LIFE UNCOMFORTABLE FOR HER, AND SHE LEFT THE MILITARY, SADLY, REALLY.> DESPITE LEAVING THE MILITARY, HER PIONEERING WORK PAVED THE WAY FOR MANY WOMEN.

TODAY, RULES AGAINST WOMEN IN COMBAT HAVE BEEN RELAXED, ALL THE WOMEN IN THE SERVICES HAVE YET TO ATTAIN FULLY QUALITY.

>> SO AND STONE, IS THE DEBATE OVER WOMEN IN COMBAT, WOMEN IN THE MILITARY OVER OR DOES IT CONTINUE?

>> IT'S NOT THAT IT'S OVER BUT IT CERTAINLY IS MUCH MORE RELAXED.

I WANT TO GIVE A SHOUT OUT TO DEBORAH SAMPSON WHO ACTUALLY SERVED DURING THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR, BUT SHE HAD TO HIDE THE FACT SHE WAS A WOMAN AND SHE SAW COMBAT, ONE OF MERYL STREEP'S FAVORITE WOMEN IN HISTORY.

WE DON'T HAVE TO HIDE ANYMORE WHEN WE SERVE.

WE'VE COME A LONG WAY, BABY, BUT STILL SOME MORE PROGRESS.

HAVING MORE WOMEN THERE, FINDING OUT WE ARE THE MOST ELITE AND EFFECTIVE FIGHTING FORCE IN THE WORLD, EVEN IF WE HAVE WOMEN IN MILITARY, HAS GONE A LONG WAY.

>> COMBAT ITSELF HAS CHANGED A LOT.

A LOT OF COMBAT IS IN A COMPUTER ROOM SOMEWHERE.

>> WE ARE GOOD AT THAT.

>> TELLING THE DRONE WERE TO DROP ITS BOMB.

>> IS AN INTERESTING THAT WE INTEGRATED -- WITH RESPECT TO RACE, WE INTEGRATED THE ON FORCES THAT WAS CONTROVERSIAL AND WE MOVE FORWARD.

LOOK HOW MUCH LONGER IT'S TAKEN US TO INTEGRATE THE ARMED FORCES WITH WOMEN.

THINK WE HAVE NOT -- > ISN'T THAT ALWAYS THE CASE, THOUGH?

I GO TO CAPITOL HILL, I LOOK IN THE SCENE -- ON THE HOUSE SIDE OF THE CAPITAL, THERE IS A PORTRAIT OF THE FIRST MAN HE WAS IN CONGRESS.

IT WAS A BLACK MAN, RECONSTRUCTION APPOINTED IN THE 1870S MY THEN YOU GO TO THE WOMAN FROM ANTENNA WHO VOTED -- NOT JEANETTE RANKIN WHO VOTED AGAINST WAR TWICE, ENTRY INTO WORLD WAR I AND TWO BUT SHE WAS 1912?

>> 1916.

>> ELECTED IN 1916.

WE ARE TALKING 50 YEAR GAP.

AND I THINK IT'S ALWAYS THAT WAY.

>> IN THE CAPITAL, THERE WAS A WHOLE -- AS YOU GO DOWN THE HALL NOW, WOMEN ARE THE FIRST WOMEN, JEANETTE RANKIN, THE FIRST AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMAN, THERE IS A -- PERHAPS THE THAT'S WHEN DEMOCRATS WERE IN POWER WHEN THAT WENT OUT, BUT I THINK EVERYONE WOULD REJOICE IN THE FACT YOU'VE GOT TO SEE THESE WOMEN IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE'VE GOT TO DO MORE TO INTEGRATE THEM INTO EVERY PART OF OUR SOCIETY.

>> I STILL THINK THE CONCEPT OF THE MODERN WORKING ROOM AND I CALL IT IS A NEW THING IN SOCIETY.

OF COURSE THE CONCEPT OF A WOMAN IN OUR ARMED FORCES IS STILL A VERY NEW THING.

IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW , CERTAINLY DON'T THINK IT'S MADE ITS WAY DOWN INTO SOCIETY AND A DEPOT LEVEL WHERE PEOPLE SAY, LOOK, WOMEN ARE JUST AS CAPABLE.

OBVIOUSLY WE WANT TO BELIEVE THAT FULLY, BUT IN MY HOME STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA, UNDER YOUNGER WOMEN IN HIGH SCHOOL, THEY JOIN ROTC AND WHAT THEN WENT ON TO JOIN THE RANKS, ARMY, DIFFERENT BRANCHES.

BECAUSE THE OPPORTUNITY, FINANCIAL OPPORTUNITY THAT CAME WITH IT.

I THINK THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE ARE AS A COUNTRY.

IT'S A VERY RESPECTABLE THING TO DO TO SERVE ONE'S COUNTRY, BUT THERE IS OPPORTUNITY.

>> I JUST WANT TO THROW IN ONE THING: THE MARINES THIS WEEK MADE IT OKAY, CHANGE THE REGULATIONS SO THAT MEN IN DRESS BLUE UNIFORMS IN THE RAIN CAN USE AN UMBRELLA, A REGULATION UMBRELLA, AND THE OLDER GUYS ARE LIKE, WE DON'T WANT TO DO THAT.

HOW DO YOU LOOK TOUGH WHEN YOU CARRY AN UMBRELLA?

I THOUGHT, OH, MY GOD.

HERE I GO AGAIN.

>> SEXISM IS JUST PERNICIOUS.

I THINK WE SEE THAT ESPECIALLY CONCENTRATED AND EXTREMELY CONSERVATIVE CULTURES LIKE WITHIN THE MILITARY.

I FIND IT ASTONISHING THAT IT TOOK NEARLY 25 YEARS AFTER WE HAD A WOMAN SUCCESSFULLY LEAD A MISSION IN COMBAT UNTIL WOMEN WERE ACTUALLY ALLOWED BY THE MILITARY TO FIGHT IN COMBAT.

AND SO, IT'S HARD WORK WE WILL HAVE TO KEEP FIGHTING.

>> WE DID REALLY COOL STUFF OTHER THAN COMBAT, WE WERE THE BEST SPIES.

REALLY, ALL ALONG.

>> MAY BE THAT WILL GET MORE WOMEN INTO ARTILLERY UNITS.

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