>> COMING UP ON BLACK ISSUES FORUM, A STATE HATE CRIME BILL IS REINTRODUCED FOLLOWING THIS WEEK'S TRAGIC MURDERS IN ATLANTA.

INSIGHTS ON THE DEPARTURE OF TWO KEY MEMBERS FROM THE RALEIGH POLICE ADVISORY BOARD.

AND TALK ABOUT MOVES TO IMPOSE STRONGER PENALTIES ON PROTESTERS.

STAY WITH US.

♪ HELLO AND WELCOME TO BLACK ISSUES FORUM, I'M DEBORAH HOLT-NOEL.

THIS PAST WEEK THE NATION WAS SHOCKED BY THE SHOOTING DEATHS OF 8 PEOPLE IN ATLANTA, INCLUDING SIX WOMEN OF ASIAN DESCENT.

IT HAS NOT BEEN OFFICIALLY DEEMED A HATE CRIME.

BUT HERE IN NORTH CAROLINA LEGISLATORS ARE ONCE AGAIN PUSHING THE HATE CRIMES PREVENTION ACT.

TO TALK ABOUT IT WITH US IS ONE OF THE BILL'S SPONSORS, SENATOR JAY CHAUDHURI OF WAKE COUNTY AND POLITICAL ANALYST STEVE RAO.

GENTLEMEN, THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE.

AND FIRST IT SHOULD GO WITHOUT SAYING, THAT A THREAT TO THE LIVELIHOOD OR THE SAFETY OF ANYONE BASED ON THEIR RACE IS INTOLERABLE AND A CALL FOR SOLIDARITY.

WHAT SENATOR CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT THE RENEWED EFFORT TO GET THIS HATE CRIMES LEGISLATION PASSED?

IT'S NOT ITS FIRST TIME TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

>> YEAH, THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

I PLAN TO REFILE THE HATE CRIMES PREVENTION ACT THIS WEEK BECAUSE FOR 2 REASONS; NUMBER ONE IS WE KNOW THAT THERE HAS BEEN A STEADY INCREASE IN HATE CRIMES AND HATE GROUPS OVER THE LAST 4 YEARS.

THE STOP API GROUP ACTUALLY JUST CAME OUT WITH A STUDY EARLIER THIS WEEK THAT SAID THERE'S BEEN ALMOST 4,000 ANTI ASIAN 8 INCIDENCES SINCE THE PANDEMIC BECAUSE A LOT OF THE PANDEMIC AND THE VIRUS HAS BEEN ATTACHED TO NEGATIVE STEREOTYPES OF ASIAN AMERICANS.

AND SECONDLY, WE KNOW FROM THE FBI DIRECTOR'S TESTIMONY THIS WEEK IN FACT THAT WE'RE SEEING A RISE IN HATE GROUPS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

THIS IS THE 3RD TIME I FILED THIS BILL.

I FILED THIS BILL BECAUSE THIS BILL TO ME IS NOT ONLY ABOUT PROTECTING BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITIES, BUT IT'S ALSO ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT WE HOLD TOGETHER OUR RED WHITE AND BLUE COUNTRY, BECAUSE THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS HATE CRIMES AND HATE GROUPS ARE REALLY TEARING APART THE FABRIC OF THIS COUNTRY.

>> WELL, SOMETHING CERTAINLY HAS TO BE DONE AND STEVE I WANT TO GET YOUR FEEDBACK ON IT TOO.

EVEN THOUGH WE SAY THAT WE'VE BEEN SHOCKED AS A NATION AS THE SENATOR HAS MENTIONED, HATE CRIMES HAVE BEEN UP AND DOCUMENTED.

WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION TO THE INCIDENT THIS WEEK?

>> WELL IT'S AN HONOR TO BE HERE WITH SENATOR CHAUDHURI AND I REALLY COMMEND HIM AND HIS LEADERSHIP ALONG WITH SENATOR FOUSHEE AND SENATOR MOHAMMED FOR TAKING THE LEAD IN BRINGING THIS LEGISLATION FORWARD.

BUT I WILL TELL YOU THAT AS A SON OF IMMIGRANTS FROM INDIA LIKE SENATOR CHAUDHURI, OUR PARENTS CAME TO AMERICA, SO THEY COULD RAISE THEIR FAMILIES IN FREEDOM AND PEACE, AND THE FACT THAT THEIR GRANDCHILDREN TODAY HAVE TO LIVE IN A NATION WHERE SOMEONE CAN JUST BE GUNNED DOWN BECAUSE THEY'RE ASIAN AMERICAN AND I THINK IT'S A CULTURE THAT'S INFECTED LIKE A CANCER IN AMERICA AND PRESIDENT TRUMP.

YOU KNOW CALLING THE CORONAVIRUS COVID-19 THE CHINA VIRUS, CERTAINLY DIDN'T HELP AND HE CONTINUES TO DO THAT CREATING THIS CULTURE AND SO I THINK THAT THIS IS LIKE THE SENATOR SAID MORE THAN JUST ABOUT BROWN PEOPLE AND ASIAN PEOPLE BUT IT'S ABOUT AMERICA, OUR NATION AND WE HAVE TO STOP THIS AND I THINK THE LEGISLATION IN NORTH CAROLINA WILL BE THE FIRST STEP FORWARD AND I HOPE THE LEGISLATORS ACROSS THIS COUNTRY WOULD DO THE SAME ALONG WITH OUR US CONGRESS US SENATE AND PRESIDENT BIDEN IS ALSO VISITING ATLANTA TODAY AND HE'LL BE ADDRESSING ATLANTA IN THE NATION ON THIS ISSUE AS WELL.

>> WELL CERTAINLY FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP IS OUT OF OFFICE NOW AND HOPEFULLY THINGS ARE CHANGING IN OUR SOCIETY, BUT THIS EVENT TELLS US THAT THERE IS RESIDUE LEFT OVER SENATOR CHAUDHURI, YOU CAN YOU SHARE A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THE BREATH OF THIS HATE CRIMES LEGISLATION, WHAT IT WOULD ACTUALLY DO.

>> THE HATE CRIMES PREVENTION ACT WILL DO A FEW THINGS.

NUMBER ONE IS IT WOULD EXPAND THE SCOPE OF PROTECTIONS UNDER THE HATE CRIME STATUTE AND IT WOULD INCLUDE ETHNICITY, IT WOULD INCLUDE SEXUAL ORIENTATION, DISABILITY, GENDER IDENTITY, GENDER EXPRESSION.

SECONDLY, IT WOULD INCREASE THE PUNISHMENT FOR AN UNDERLYING CRIME WHERE HATE WOULD BE DEEMED TO BE PART OF THE MOTIVE OF THAT CRIME.

THIRDLY AND IMPORTANTLY THE BILL WOULD REQUIRE THE STATE BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION HERE TO COLLECT AND ANALYZE HATE CRIMES DATA BECAUSE RIGHT NOW A LOT OF THE INFORMATION THAT IS REPORTED TO THE STATE BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION IS VOLUNTARY AND I THINK IF YOU TALKED TO RESEARCHERS AND POLICYMAKERS, THEY WOULD SAY THAT THE COLLECTION AND ANALYSIS OF THAT INFORMATION IS CRITICAL.

LASTLY THE BILL WOULD PROVIDE FOR TRAINING TO LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AND PROSECUTORS ON HOW TO TACKLE HATE CRIMES BILLS.

AND YOU KNOW FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, DEBORAH I THINK THAT THIS BILL SHOULD NOT BE CONTROVERSIAL, IT'S NOT A DEMOCRATIC REPUBLICAN BILL.

IN FACT, THE STATE OF GEORGIA PASSED THE HATE CRIMES BILL IN LIGHT OF THE ASSAULT AND MURDER THAT TOOK PLACE OF THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN THERE IN GEORGIA.

THIS SHOULD BE AN EASY BILL TO HOLD A HEARING ON AND TO PASS BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WAYS THAT WE CAN MAKE BETTER DECISIONS IN TACKLING AN ISSUE THAT I THINK IS A GROWING THREAT TO OUR STATE AND OUR COUNTRY.

>> AND DOES IT SEEM AS THOUGH THERE HAS BEEN PARTISANSHIP WITH REGARD TO THIS LEGISLATION?

AND WHY?

>> WE CERTAINLY HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING FROM THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY LEADERSHIP ON THE BILL BUT GIVEN THE FACT THAT THE BILL HAS BEEN FILED OVER THE LAST TWO SESSIONS AND HAS NOT BEEN GIVEN A HEARING, MY PERSPECTIVE IS THAT THE BILL IS IS NOT DEEMED TO BE IMPORTANT ENOUGH.

I THINK THE BILL IS PERHAPS AS WE HEARD YESTERDAY AND THE CONGRESSIONAL TESTIMONY ABOUT, HEARINGS ABOUT THE VIOLENCE AGAINST ASIAN AMERICANS THAT THIS BILL IS VIEWED AS CRIMINALIZING POLITICAL SPEECH WHICH IS FAR FROM THE TRUTH.

I MEAN AT THE END OF THE DAY, THIS BILL DOES NOT CRIMINALIZE POLITICAL SPEECH.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE AN UNDERLYING CRIME COMMITTED BEFORE YOU CAN EVEN APPLY THE ADDITIONAL PENALTIES THAT MAY ARISE FROM HATE CRIME AND SO I THINK THAT THOSE ARGUMENTS ARE MISPLACED.

>> WELL ON ANOTHER ISSUE, A SURGE IN THE NUMBER OF MIGRANT ADULTS AND CHILDREN TO THE U.S. MEXICO BORDER IS GENERATING QUESTIONS ABOUT PRESIDENT BIDEN'S POLICIES ON IMMIGRATION AND THIS AT THE SAME TIME THAT LAWMAKERS JUST APPROVED TWO IMMIGRATION BILLS ADDRESSING THE LEGAL STATUS OF DREAMERS, BORDER SECURITY TECHNOLOGY, FARM WORKERS AND HELP TO CENTRAL AMERICA.

SO GENTLEMEN, I WANT TO ASK YOU ALSO, AND I'LL OPEN UP WITH YOU STEVE BECAUSE I KNOW THAT YOU'VE DONE A LOT OF RESEARCH ON THIS.

WE ALREADY KNOW THAT 8% OF NORTH CAROLINA'S POPULATION IS IMMIGRANTS, AND THE SECOND LARGEST GROUP IS PEOPLE OF ASIAN DESCENT, HOW IS THIS LEGISLATION, A POSITIVE FOR NORTH CAROLINA AS WE BRING IT DOWN FROM YOU KNOW A FEDERAL PERSPECTIVE BUT BRINGING IT HOME TO HERE IN NORTH CAROLINA.

STEVE?

>> WELL, I ALSO SERVED AS A BOARD MEMBER OF THE NEW AMERICAN ECONOMY WHICH IS CHAIRED BY MIKE BLOOMBERG FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR AND IT'S ALL ABOUT THE ECONOMIC IMPACT OF IMMIGRATION AND SO WHAT I CAN TELL YOU IS THAT THIS IS A HUGE STEP FORWARD IN DRIVING ECONOMIC GROWTH FOR NORTH CAROLINA, FIRST, YOU LOOK AT THE DREAMERS AND 4 MILLION CITIZENS NOW IN THE UNITED STATES.

DREAMERS AND AGRICULTURAL WORKERS, UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS WILL BE GIVEN STATUS TPS HOLDERS IN THE U.S.

IN NORTH CAROLINA, WHAT THAT MEANS IS THAT THE DREAMERS THAT WE HAVE HERE AND THE 35,000, THEY CAN CONTINUE TO STAY IN NORTH CAROLINA AND BRING IN THE 484 MILLION TO OUR ECONOMY.

OUR AGRICULTURAL INDUSTRY WHICH IS BIG IN NORTH CAROLINA WILL NOW BE HELPED AS THESE UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS CAN STAY AND WORK ON OUR FARMS.

WE NEED PEOPLE ON THE FARMS, THEY CAN WORK JOBS THAT WE NEED TO KEEP OUR ECONOMY MOVING.

AND AS IT RELATES TO THE ASIAN AMERICANS AND SENATOR CHAUDHURI IS VERY WELL AWARE OF THIS, WE HAVE A HUGE ASIAN INDIAN POPULATION, SKILLED IMMIGRANTS H1-Bs APPLYING FOR GREEN CARDS.

THESE ARE SKILLED IMMIGRANTS THAT ARE VITAL TO CREATING THE JOBS THAT WE NEED NOW IN THE TECH SECTOR JOBS AND NEW ECONOMY PROVIDING VACCINE RESEARCH AND INNOVATION AND ALSO ENTREPRENEURS.

LET'S NOT FORGET THAT ZOOM, SLACK, TESLA, SPACE X, COLGATE, NORDSTROMS, BEST BUY, 44% OF OUR FORTUNE, 500 YAHOO, GOOGLE, WERE STARTED BY IMMIGRANTS.

AND SKILLED IMMIGRANTS.

AND SO WE WANT THOSE JOBS IN AMERICA.

>> YOU KNOW YOU MAKE NOTE OF SKILLED IMMIGRANTS.

>> AND SO OFTEN THE ARGUMENTS THAT WE HEAR ARE FOCUSED AROUND A CONCERN THAT JOBS ARE GOING TO BE TAKEN AND THEN THE COUNTER TO THAT ARGUMENT IS WELL, HEY THEY'RE TAKING THE JOBS THAT AMERICANS DON'T WANT TO WORK.

JOBS AS FARMERS, JOBS AS CUSTODIANS AND THAT KIND OF THING, BUT THIS IS TO ME, SENATOR CHAUDHURI, A LIMITED VIEW.

WHAT IS NOT TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION HERE?

>> WELL, IT DOESN'T TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THE POINT THAT STEVE MENTIONED IS THAT SO MUCH OF OUR ECONOMY BODE FROM UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS AND SKILLED IMMIGRANTS THAT IMMIGRANTS ARE THE ECONOMIC ENGINES COUNTRY.

AND I THINK THE PASSAGE OF THE FARM WORKFORCE MODERNIZATION ACT SECOND BILL THAT WAS PASSED IN CONGRESS ON THURSDAY IS SOMEWHAT TELLING BECAUSE THERE WERE 30 REPUBLICANS THAT SUPPORTED THAT BILL, MANY OF THEM FROM RED STATES AND PART OF THE REASON THAT THERE WAS SUPPORT FROM REPUBLICANS IS BECAUSE FARM WORKERS ARE THE BACKBONE OF THE AGRICULTURAL ECONOMY.

THAT BILL I THINK GARNERED BIPARTISAN SUPPORT BECAUSE IT ESSENTIALLY CREATED A COMPROMISE WHERE YOU WOULD PROVIDE LEGAL STATUS FOR FARM WORKERS, SPOUSES AND THEIR CHILDREN IN EXCHANGE FOR THEM PAYING A FINE.

I THINK THERE'S A REFLECTION OF THEIR STATUS HERE IN THIS COUNTRY, BUT ALSO I THINK IT PUTS THEM ON TRACK TO HELP SUPPORT SOME VITALLY AND CRITICAL INDUSTRIES, AGRICULTURE INDUSTRIES THAT WE HAVE HERE IN THIS COUNTRY AND IN OUR STATE COURSE.

>> AND CERTAINLY THERE'S THE ARGUMENT THERE THAT IMMIGRANTS ARE CREATING A DRAIN ON OUR ECONOMY WHEREAS STEVE YOU JUST TALKED ABOUT THE MANY CONTRIBUTIONS THAT IMMIGRANTS HAVE MADE AND CONTINUE TO MAKE TO OUR COUNTRY.

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY ABOUT WHAT YOU SEE IN THE CURRENT LEGISLATION THAT'S PROMISING IT THAT YOU THINK WILL ACTUALLY MOVE THROUGH AND GET PASSEFD THIS TIME?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW DEBORAH, I THINK THAT THE FIRST STEP IS THAT IT'S HAPPENING PCO RIGHT EACH ISSUES SO IT'S REALLY CHALLENGING TO HAVE A COMPREHENSIVE BILL, BUT NOW THIS IS THE FIRST STEP DREAMERS AND FARMERS THE U.S.

CITIZENSHIP ACT IS PROPOSING CHANGES TO THE SKILLED IMMIGRATION, WHICH IS YOU KNOW ALLOWING AS STEM WORKERS TO REMAIN IN UNIVERSITIES ALLOWING SPOUSES TO MOVE IN BETWEEN JOBS ELIMINATE THE PER-COUNTRY CAP DOING ALL THE THINGS SO IN NORTH CAROLINA, JUST A FEW YEARS AGO THE NEW AMERICAN ECONOMY FOUND OUT THAT IF WE PASSED SKILLED IMMIGRATION REFORM WE'D ADD 750 MILLION TO OUR GDP IN NORTH CAROLINA.

>> AND THIS ADDRESSES ALSO JOB CREATION >> JOB CREATION.

RIGHT.

AND I WILL TELL YOU THIS, WE TALKED ABOUT ASIAN AMERICAN HATE CRIMES BEFORE WE TALKED ABOUT THIS.

THE ENVIRONMENT HAS BECOME SO HOSTILE AND THERE'S A LOT OF CONFUSION BETWEEN ASYLUM AND IMMIGRATION BY THE END OF THE DAY IMMIGRATION TODAY FOR SKILLED IMMIGRANTS IS THE LOWEST IT'S BEEN IN 40 YEARS.

THAT SHOULD BE VERY CONCERNING TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, BECAUSE NOW THESE IMMIGRANTS, AND I'M TALKING TO THEM IN MORRISVILLE TOO THEY'RE LOOKING TO GOING TO CANADA.

THEY'RE LOOKING TO GOING TO AUSTRALIA, THEY'RE LOOKING AT GOING TO ISRAEL AND BRITAIN BECAUSE THOSE COUNTRIES ARE FRIENDLIER, THERE MAKING IT EASIER FOR THEM TO GET IN AND WHO WANTS TO GO TO A COUNTRY WHERE PEOPLE ARE BEING SHOT DOWN BECAUSE THEY'RE ASIAN?

RIGHT?

SO WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE ALSO THAT THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM IS ALSO THE FACT THAT WE WANT PEOPLE COMING IN TO CREATE THE JOBS THAT WE NEED HERE IN NORTH CAROLINA.

I KNOW SENATOR CHAUDHURI WOULD AGREE WE WANT ALL THOSE JOBS IN NORTH CAROLINA, BUT WITH BUT IMMIGRATION IS A BIG PART OF THAT.

>> ABSOLUTELY I WOULD AGREE AND I JUST WANT TO THANK BOTH YOU STEVE RAO AND SENATOR JAY CHAUDHURI FOR COMING OUT TO BLACK ISSUES FORUM AND SHARING YOUR VIEWS.

REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU DEBORAH, THANK YOU SENATOR.

>> POLICE ADVISORY BOARDS ARE ESTABLISHED TO HELP SMOOTH RELATIONS BETWEEN COMMUNITIES AND POLICE BUT HOW EFFECTIVE ARE THEY?

IN RALEIGH, TWO KEY MEMBERS OF THE BOARD FORMED IN JUNE OF 2020 CITED LACK OF TRANSPARENCY AMONG OTHER REASONS FOR RECENTLY DEPARTING.

TO HELP PROVIDE INSIGHT, I'D LIKE TO WELCOME COMMUNITY ACTIVIST KERWIN PITTMAN AND GREER WEBB CO-FOUNDER OF YOUNG AMERICANS PROTEST.

I'D LIKE TO ASK BOTH OF YOU AND WELCOME TO BLACK ISSUES FORUM AGAIN.

BUT LAST SUMMER DURING THE PROTESTS, WE KNOW ABOUT THE SITUATION THAT ESSENTIALLY CREATED A NEED FOR SOMETHING TO BE DONE AND AS A RESULT THERE WAS THIS RALEIGH POLICE ADVISORY BOARD.

LET ME START WITH YOU GREER TO SHARE WITH US WHAT YOUR EXPECTATIONS WERE IN JOINING THAT BOARD.

>> SURE FIRSTLY THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON TODAY, I'M GLAD TO BE HERE AND SHARE MY PERSPECTIVE.

IN JOINING THAT BOARD, AS YOU MENTIONED, THAT WAS NOT ONLY CREATED AFTER THE GEORGE FLOYD PROTESTS IN RALEIGH IN MAY OF 2020, BUT WAS THEN ENACTED QUICKLY, HAS BEEN A COMMUNITY CONVERSATION FOR MANY YEARS DATING BACK TO 2015.

MEMBERS OF RALEIGH'S MARGINALIZED COMMUNITIES, ESPECIALLY THE BLACK COMMUNITY HAD WONDERED WHAT TO DO AND THOUGHT THAT THE BOARD OF OVERSIGHT WAS THE BEST WAY TO GO FORWARD, AND SO I HAD JUST IMAGINED MY ROLE ON THAT BOARD AS ONE OF TRANSPARENCY TO PROVIDE THAT CONNECTION BETWEEN THE COMMUNITY AND THE CITY AND TO REALLY ADVOCATE FOR WHAT NOT ONLY YOUNG PEOPLE BUT SPECIFICALLY BLACK YOUNG RALEIGHITES.

I WANTED TO SEE FROM THE POLICE IN OUR CURRENT SYSTEM OF COMMUNITY SAFETY.

>> SO WHEN YOU GOT ON THE BOARD, WHAT DID YOU EXPECT WOULD BE SOME OF THE OUTCOMES?

WHAT WERE YOU HOPING TO ACCOMPLISH?

>> SO OUR BOARD WAS CREATED TO LOOK AT, REVIEW, EXAMINE AND THEN GIVE POLICY RECOMMENDATIONS TO CITY COUNCIL, AND SO I WENT IN THERE WITH AN OPEN MIND.

I'M HOPING TO OFFER SOME PERSPECTIVE BOTH FROM A YOUNG PERSON'S POINT OF VIEW AS WELL AS SOMEONE WHO'S BEEN BORN AND RAISED IN RALEIGH, AND SO I REALLY WANTED TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE SYSTEMIC ISSUES RELATED TO POLICING AND TO PREVENT A GEORGE FLOYD, BREONNA TAYLOR OR EVEN AMHAD ARBERY FROM HAPPENING IN RALEIGH OR IN NORTH CAROLINA AND SO THOSE WERE MY INTENTIONS GOING IN AND SERVING ON THE BOARD.

>> NOW BOTH YOU AND KERWIN ARE MEMBERS OF RALEIGH DEMANDS JUSTICE COALITION.

BUT KERWIN, YOU SIT CURRENTLY ON THE GOVERNOR'S EQUITY TASK FORCE.

TELL US WHAT THE CONNECTION IS IF ANY BETWEEN THAT AND THE RALEIGH POLICE ADVISORY BOARD.

>> YES, SO THE GOVERNOR'S EQUITY TASK FORCE PRETTY MUCH TACKLE STATEWIDE ISSUES WHEN IT COMES TO POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY AS WELL AS CREATING DIFFERENT POLICY SHIFTS AND POLICY CHANGE.

AND NARRATIVES WITHIN LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES PARTICULARLY DEALING WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT ACROSS THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA TO WHEREAS THE RALEIGH CITIZEN ADVISORY REVIEW BOARD HANDLE SPECIFIC POLICE ISSUE DEALING SPECIFICALLY WITHIN RALEIGH AND SO THEY FOCUS ON POLICY CHANGE WE'RE FOCUSED ON CREATING THESE POLICIES THAT THEY SHOULD ENACT WITHIN THAT PARTICULAR REVIEW BOARD AS WELL AS THE MUNICIPALITY OVERALL.

>> GREER, THE TWO WOMEN WO LEFT THE RALEIGH POLICE ADVISORY BOARD SAID THERE WAS A LACK OF TRANSPARENCY AND ALSO THAT THEY SIMPLY WEREN'T ABLE TO GET SEE OTHER THINGS GETTING ACCOMPLISHED.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THEIR POSITION?

DO YOU THINK IT WAS A LACK OF PATIENCE PERHAPS, OR DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHERE THEY'RE COMING FROM?

>> I CERTAINLY DO UNDERSTAND WHERE THEY'RE COMING FROM AND SPEAKING SOLELY FOR MYSELF AS AN INDIVIDUAL ON THAT BOARD I HAVE NOTICED THAT A BIT AS WELL.

AND SO WHILE I WAS DISAPPOINTED TO SEE THOSE 2, AND THEY WERE WOMEN, RESIGN THEIR POSITIONS, IT OPENED A GREATER CONVERSATION AROUND TRANSPARENCY AND TRUE ACCOUNTABILITY IN THE CITY OF RALEIGH AND IN THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA.

AND SO I WOULD HOPE THAT OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS NOT ONLY READ THEIR LETTERS BUT UNDERSTAND THAT THEY RESIGNED FOR A REASON AND THAT REASON WAS BECAUSE THEY WERE FRUSTRATED AFTER YEARS AND YEARS OF FIGHTING FOR BOARDS LIKE THESE, IT SEEMS LIKE MUNICIPALITIES ACROSS THE STATE AND ACROSS THE NATION REALLY ARE NOT TRULY COMMITTED TO JUSTICE AND ARE NOT WILLING TO GET SUPER UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE TRUTH.

>> AND YOU HAVE A LIST OF DEMANDS.

CAN YOU SHARE SOME OF THOSE DEMANDS THAT YOU OUTLINED?

>> SURE, SO RALEIGH DEMANDS JUSTICE AFTER READING THOSE RESIGNATION LETTERS AS A COMMUNITY GROUP, AND AS A COMMUNITY INDIVIDUAL, WE HAVE OUTLINED DEMANDS FOR THE CITY OF RALEIGH.

AND SO SOME OF THOSE INCLUDE A GIVING THE POLICE REVIEW BOARD OVERSIGHT AUTHORITY AND SUBPOENA POWER THAT WE HAVE TO COME FROM THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY, THAT'S BEEN A YEARS LONG FIGHT AS WELL AS MAKING SURE THAT THE BOARD ADDRESSES ISSUES OF INEQUITY AND WORKS TO REFUND RALEIGH BY SUGGESTING AN INVESTMENT IN PROGRAMS LIKE INITIATIVES TO ADDRESS HOUSING, INEQUALITY AND ENVIRONMENTAL RACISM AND MENTAL HEALTH INITIATIVES THAT STAND-ALONE FROM THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AS WELL AS MAKING SURE THAT WE ARE AN INDEPENDENT BOARD AND SO OUTLINED AS A BOARD MEMBER OUTLINED IN MY FORMER BOARD MEMBERS LETTERS OF RESIGNATION WAS A CLAIM THAT THE CITY IN THE CITY MANAGER'S OFFICE THE OFFICE OF EQUITY AND INCLUSION WE'RE NOT ALLOWING OUR BOARD TO BE WHOLLY INDEPENDENT.

AND SO THAT'S TROUBLING AND IS ALSO ONE OF THE DEMANDS THAT OUR BOARD HAS TRUE INDEPENDENCE.

OF COURSE WE WORK AND WERE APPOINTED BY THE CITY, BUT WE REALLY WANT TO REPRESENT THE COMMUNITY.

AND SO THAT'S TOUGH WHEN SOME OF OUR BOARD IS BEING MANAGED OR OVER MANAGED AS WAS CITED IN THOSE LETTERS BY CITY OFFICIALS.

>> KERWIN I SEE YOU NODDING.

WHAT I WANT TO KNOW IS WE'RE ASKING ARE THESE BOARDS EFFECTIVE.

AND YOU'RE SITTING ON A TASK FORCE YOU HAVING HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE COMMUNICATION AND HEAR INPUT FROM ALL KINDS OF FOLKS ON THE ISSUE OF THEIR POLICING.

ARE THIS LIST OF DEMANDS THAT GREER JUST OUTLINED FAIR?

ARE THEY GOING TO BE CONSIDERED AT ALL?

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?

>> MY HOPE THEY WILL BE STRONGLY CONSIDERED AND TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION, BUT ALSO IMPLEMENTED.

SO PARTICULARLY MY THOUGHTS IS THESE TYPE OF BOARDS CANNOT BE EFFECTIVE IF THEY ARE NOT RUN INDEPENDENTLY.

SO LET'S SAY FOR INSTANCE THE RALEIGH CITIZEN ADVISORY REVIEW BOARD.

IF THIS BOARD DOES NOT HAVE SUBPOENA POWER, WE CANNOT LOOK AT RECORDS THAT IT NEEDS TO MAKE POLICY CHANGE BUT ALSO AS WELL AS IF THIS BOARD IS MANAGED BY THE CITY MANAGER WHO ALSO MANAGED THE RALEIGH POLICE DEPARTMENT, BUT ALSO WHO RUN EMAILS AND DIFFERENT THINGS THAT THIS BOARD IS GOING TO LOOK AT AND POLICY CHANGES THAT NEED TO BE MADE BY THE POLICE CHIEF BEFORE IT ACTUALLY FUNNELED DOWN TO THE BOARD, THIS IS A CONFLICT OF INTEREST IN MY OPINION AND THIS STATES WHY.

THIS BOARD SHOULD BE INDEPENDENT BECAUSE IT NEEDS TO HOLD TRUE POWER AND ALSO TO BE ABLE TO HOLD TRUE ACCOUNTABILITY WITHOUT SOMEBODY POLICING WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE POLICING WHICH IS THE POLICE.

>> IS YOUR SENSE THAT THESE DEMANDS ARE REALLY GOING TO BE WELL RECEIVED?

ARE YOU GETTING THE COOPERATION THAT YOU EXPECTED?

>> SO TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, NO.

TO BE HONEST FRANK AND CANDID, NO WE'RE NOT GETTING COOPERATION THAT WE EXPECTED AND SO THOSE IN MUNICIPAL POSITIONS OF POWER ARE TAKING THESE TWO INDIVIDUALS RESIGNATIONS AS JUST BEING DISCONTENT WITH HOW THE BOARD FUNCTIONS.

BUT IN TRUE CONCEPTION OR INCEPTION OF THIS BOARD, HOW IT IS REALLY SUPPOSED TO BE FUNCTIONED AND HOW IT'S RELATED TO THE COMMUNITY IS NOT WHAT WE EXPECTED.

AND SO THIS IS JUST AN OUTCRY FROM THOSE WHO ARE ON THE BOARD WHO ARE SEEING THE BOARD IN SHAMBLES, AND IT REALLY NEEDS TO BE RETHOUGHT REFORMED AND CHANGED IMMEDIATELY IF IT WANTS TO MAKE TRUE AND EFFECTIVE CHANGE PERIOD.

>> BUT THE 2 OF YOU DO INTEND TO STICK WITH IT AND CONTINUE COMMUNICATION.

>> YES, YES, COMMUNICATION IS THE KEY SO BEFORE ANYTHING AND CHANGE IS TO BE BROUGHT ABOUT WE MUST FIRST BRING ALL PARTIES TO THE TABLE THOUGH WE MUST COME IN TRUE FASHION HONESTY AND ADDRESS THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM.

SO SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT, WE GOT TO SPEAK UP ABOUT IT, WE'VE GOT TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT IT AND THEN WE'LL BE ABLE TO MOVE FORWARD AFTER THAT CONVERSATION.

BUT UNTIL THAT CONVERSATION IS REALLY HAD, IT WILL BE LEFT IN SHAMBLES.

BUT WE DO NOT PLAN ON WALKING AWAY.

>> HAVE TO HAVE OPEN COMMUNICATION IN ORDER TO MAKE ANY KIND OF PROGRESS.

THE POLICE ADVISORY BOARD GREW OUT OF THE SUMMER'S PROTESTS, ANOTHER DEVELOPMENT LAWS THAT COULD FURTHER CRIMINALIZE ACTIVITIES DEFINED AS A RIOT.

SO THIS IS LEGISLATION THAT'S KIND OF GROWING IN LOCAL COMMUNITIES ALL OVER THE NATION QUITE FRANKLY, AND SENATOR DANNY BRITT OF LUMBERTON FILED SENATE BILL 300 CALLED THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM BILL.

I WANT TO KNOW WHAT DO YOU FIND MOST TROUBLING ABOUT THIS PROPOSED LEGISLATION KERWIN?

>> SO WHAT I FIND MOST TROUBLING ABOUT THIS PROPOSED LEGISLATION IS PARTICULARLY INDIVIDUALS CHARGED WITH INCITING A RIOT UP FROM A MISDEMEANOR TO A FELONY, WHICH IS VERY VAGUE, SO DISORDERLY CONDUCT CAN BE VERY VAGUE AND RANGE FROM A DIFFERENT ARRAY OF THINGS, BUT ALSO BEING AT PROTESTS AND ORGANIZING PROTESTS, I'VE SEEN INDIVIDUALS GET ARRESTED FOR THINGS THAT THEY DIDN'T DO, SO YOU WOULD HATE FOR SOMEBODY TO BE SADDLED FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIFE THAT MIGHT EFFECT THEIR EMPLOYMENT, THEIR HOUSING DIFFERENT BENEFITS WITH A FELONY FOR SOMETHING THAT THEY DIDN'T DO, SO IT IS JUST TOO VAGUE, BUT ALSO AS WELL AS IT IS ALL THE TROUBLING THINGS HERE LIKE CREATING THE DATABASE FOR USE OF FORCE POLICIES TO WHICH THAT HAS NOT BEEN OPENED AND WILL NOT BE CANDID TO THE PUBLIC IT WILL BE CLOSED AND CONFIDENTIAL.

AND IT'S JUST A HOST OF OTHER THINGS THAT IS KIND OF REALLY JARRING AND CONCERNING TO ME IN THIS PARTICULAR BILL.

>> WELL GRIER, WHEN WE CONSIDER WHAT JUST HAPPENED NOT IN RALEIGH, BUT WHAT HAPPENED AT THE NATIONS CAPITOL ON JANUARY 6TH.

A MOVE LIKE THIS FOR LEGISLATION TO REALLY INCREASE THE CRIMINAL PENALTIES FOR RIOTING LIKE THE KIND PERHAPS THAT WE SAW ON JANUARY 6 PEOPLE CAN UNDERSTAND AND POSSIBLY SUPPORT A MOVE TO MAKE IT A LITTLE STIFFER.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK WE'RE CONTINUING TO ADDRESS THE WRONG THINGS HERE IN AMERICA AND THAT'S TRICKLING DOWN TO NORTH CAROLINA.

I THINK WE SEE WHAT THE JANUARY 6TH INSURRECTION OF COURSE, HOW UNACCEPTABLE THAT WAS.

BUT AS WE'VE NOTED, AND IT HAS BEEN NOTED IN THE MEDIA EXCUSE ME BY THE FBI AND BY MULTIPLE DATABASES, WHITE DOMESTIC TERRORISM IS THE MAIN CAUSE FOR CONCERN RIGHT NOW.

SO AS WE LOOK TO ADDRESS THAT, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE FOCUSED ON ALLOWING NOT ONLY FREEDOM OF SPEECH, BUT FREEDOM OF ASSEMBLY HERE AT THE LOCAL LEVEL, AND SO WE NEED TO BE VERY CLEAR WHEN WE'RE DEFINING RIOTING VERSUS NON VIOLENT PROTESTING AND UNDERSTANDING THAT IN THE PROFESSION OF POLICING WHICH STEMS FROM SLAVE PATROLS, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE TRANSFORMING THAT AND ALLOWING COMMUNITY MEMBERS TO HOLD POLICE ACCOUNTABLE.

SO I THINK WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DIFFERENT THINGS HERE, AND WE NEED TO BE VERY CLEAR AS TO WHAT WE'RE GOING TO ADDRESS WHEN IT COMES TO LEGISLATION BOTH HERE IN NORTH CAROLINA AS WELL AS NATIONALLY.

>> WELL I HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK TO SENATOR NATHALIE MURDOCH A LITTLE BIT BEFORE THE PROGRAM AND ONE OF THE CONCERNS THAT SHE EXPRESSED WAS THE POSSIBILITY OF THERE BEING RACIAL DISCRIMINATION APPLIED YOU KNOW IN AN INCONSISTENT WAY.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THAT KERWIN?

>> YES, THAT IS ONE OF MY MAIN CONCERNS AS WELL.

LIKE I SAID EARLIER, BEING A PROTEST ORGANIZER, BUT ALSO BEING AT THESE DIFFERENT PROTESTS, I'VE ACTUALLY SEEN RACIAL DISCRIMINATION PRACTICED AGAINST DIFFERENT PROTESTERS, SPECIFICALLY BLACK PROTESTERS.

I'VE SEEN THEM MORE ARRESTED AND DETAINED AS WELL AS PEPPER SPRAYED AT A HIGHER RATE THAN THEIR COUNTERPARTS THAT WAS OUT THERE EVEN THOUGH THEIR COUNTERPARTS OUTNUMBERED THEM SO MANY TIMES.

AND SO THIS RIGHT HERE IS EXTREMELY ALARMING AND CONCERNING BECAUSE YOU DO NOT WANT TO SADDLE INDIVIDUALS WITH A FELONY FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES, PARTICULARLY BECAUSE THEY'RE BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST.

>> AND I'LL GIVE YOU THE LAST WORD GREER.

HOW DOES LEGISLATION LIKE THIS SPEAK TO THE CURRENT MOMENT?

>> I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT THE ROOT CAUSES HERE AND THE ROOT CAUSE OF MANY OF THESE PROTESTS IN 2020 AND LONG BEFORE IN OUR NATION'S HISTORY OF WHICH YOUNG PEOPLE HAVE BEEN ON MANY OF THE FRONT LINES IS RACISM, AND WE NEED TO ADDRESS THAT.

WHEN WE LOOK AT THIS LEGISLATION THAT IS TALKING ABOUT POLICING OR THAT'S TALKING ABOUT LIMITING THE WAYS THAT PEOPLE CAN SPEAK OUT IN PROTEST, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE EQUALLY ADDRESSING THE INCONSISTENCIES IN POLICING.

THAT COMMUNITIES FEEL SAFE, THAT THEY FEEL THAT THEY ARE BEING PROTECTED, AND OUR CURRENT SYSTEM OBVIOUSLY DOESN'T DO THAT.

SO I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO LEGISLATION LIKE THE GEORGE FLOYD JUSTICE IN POLICING ACT NATIONALLY, AND THEN THAT TRICKLING DOWN TO NORTH CAROLINA AND HAVING FOLKS THAT ARE WILLING TO JUMP IN AND REALLY BE BRAVE AND COURAGEOUS AND MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE ADDRESSING THE ROOT CAUSES NOT ONLY OF RACISM BUT THE WAYS THAT THOSE ARE PERPETUATED THROUGH MANY OF OUR SYSTEMS IN AMERICA, INCLUDING POLICING.

>> WELL, IT'S CERTAINLY IMPORTANT THAT WE PROTECT THAT RIGHT TO PROTEST AND THAT THE PROTEST OCCUR SAFELY FOR ALL CONCERNED GREER WEBB AND KERWIN PITTMAN THANK YOU BOTH FOR PARTICIPATING AND BEING ON BLACK ISSUES FORUM.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>> IF YOU WANT TO REACH US ON TWITTER OR INSTAGRAM, JUST USE THE HASHTAG NCBLACKISSUES, YOU CAN ALSO FIND OUR FULL EPISODE ON PBSNC.ORG/BLACKISSUESFORUM.

I'M DEBORAH HOLT-NOEL, THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

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