(upbeat music) - Thank you for joining us today, I'm your host Leia' Love and thank you for tuning in to Forum 360 where we have a global outlook from a local view.

Today I am so excited we have Dr. Rachel Talton and she is going to be talking to us today about fighting racism in a suit and pearls.

So thank you for joining us today.

- Thank you so much for having me and just know how proud I am of you, that's all.

(laughs) - Here's a little bit about Dr. Rachel and she is the CEO of the award winning firm Synergy Marketing Strategy and Research, Incorporated, the CEO of Flourish Leadership, a professor, a board member and now taking on a new title and role with Diversity and Inclusion, I don't even know how you balance it all but again, thank you so much for squeezing us into your schedule and can you tell us a little bit about how you got on this path and on this journey?

- Oh, my goodness, first of all, it's really a blessing to be sitting here with you and talking about this on this really important day, right?

The day before a tremendously important election.

You know, I've been doing diversity, equity and inclusion work, our firm has been doing diversity, equity and inclusion work for 20 years, right?

So we were founded in 2002, we're almost 19 years old and literally since our first day, we have been engaged in helping organizations to create diversity, equity and inclusion plans, to do diversity, equity and inclusion recruiting, to create, you know, environments where everyone feels that they are welcome and that they belong and that their contribution matters but that business was only 30% of our company, right?

And so we did research, we did leadership development and that's pretty much what I was known for.

I had always called Diversity, Equity and Inclusion my God job and I'm sure you remember that from Flourish, this is my God job, this is over here and my professional work is over here.

And so the day that I watched that eight minutes and 46 seconds that changed the lives of so many people, obviously took George Floyd's life but really changed the world in terms of our perspectives on race and race relations.

By the time that eight minutes and 46 seconds was over, literally during that time, I realized that my God job needs to be my day job immediately.

By the time that was over, I was like I'm going to change everything about the way that I wake up and think about the eradication of racism and that is going to be the work that I'm involved in every single day.

The second thing that I learned, although, you know, you've already said I have a lot of lots of pieces of paper, MBA in Finance, PhD in Management, tons and tons of certifications, I decided I didn't know enough and my husband was like, really Rachel.

(laughs) But four days after George Floyd's untimely death I called Cornell University and signed up for their Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Certification so I have finished that now and I'm on the path, today I think our diversity, equity and inclusion work is 93%.

- Amazing.

- On a daily basis, 93%.

- Awesome.

So let's give some context to this, a lot of people think that diversity is just black and white, what is a accurate definition of diversity?

- So there are, now you want me to put my professor hat on, there are a minimum of 34 different elements of diversity, equity and inclusion, right?

So so there's what you can see, there's our race, our gender, almost our height, right?

And then there are things that you can't see like our religion, our political views, our attitudes towards certain people, our cultural competency, those are things that you can't see.

And so diversity, equity and inclusion, your socioeconomic status, all of those things are included when you think about diversity so you're absolutely right.

Most people think of diversity as gender or race, but there are 34 minimum different elements of diversity that we need to take a look at and make sure again, that not only that people feel that they belong but their uniqueness is valued in our companies and our communities and our churches and in our lives.

- Okay, now, you mentioned equity, what is the difference between equity and equality?

I think a lot of people get confused as well.

- Absolutely, that's a great question.

So equity is, you know, I like to talk about the houses on fire, right?

You may have heard this before so this idea that we're all treated equally, we all live together, everybody sort of sings Kumbaya but equity is when one of those houses is on fire and you say, well, all houses matter.

Well, all houses don't matter right now, the one that's on fire is the one that matters and so equity is really taking a step back and looking at each individual and or group and understanding what barriers to equality, right?

That they have experienced and making sure that you may have to reach over a little bit further to give those people a hand.

Equality is when everyone literally has the same opportunities and are viewed in the same way and so when I say that to you, you know that we are we have a long, long way to go Leia' in terms of really creating a society where equality is in our DNA or is our natural state.

- Now, I know sometimes some people think as though they don't have any biases, and that they do actually have implicit bias but they just don't know that so what would you say to people who may say, I don't have any bias, you know, I have people of all different races, genders, ages, all that kind of stuff as friends, what would be your response to that type of a statement?

- Yeah, so I say this in pretty much all of my trainings, right?

If you have a brain then you have biases so every single one of us black, white, male, female, tall, short, all of us have biases.

And the reason is, and I don't want to get into the neuroscience because we don't have enough time but the reason is that we are inundated with 9 million bits of data per second and so our brain has to make decisions about that data.

And so we make quote, unquote, assumptions about people, about circumstances, about things and that's what bias is, it doesn't automatically make you a racist or misogynistic or xenophobe, it's just that your brain literally because of all of the data that it's taking in has to make quick decisions.

And so when those biases show up in the world based on how we make decisions, how we hire, what friends we have, et cetera, then it's our job to take a step back and to literally check them and make sure that we are treating everyone equally, that we're really trying to treat everyone the same.

And so, you know, I always tell people we're not going to completely negate biases, there's no way you can get rid of them, you know, which ice cream do you like better?

Chocolate or vanilla?

You either like one or the other better and that's okay.

The issue is how do you mitigate those biases in your decision making and in your actions, particularly if you are a person with power over people like power over hiring, power over equal pay, right?

Power over policy, right?

So all of these places where bias can not just be in your head but show up in your decision making, that's where we all need to really mitigate our biases.

And when I say all, I really do mean all, all of us.

All of us have biases and so our goal is to make sure that we're mitigating them so that we give everyone an equal opportunity.

- Now, you just mentioned hiring practices and people who are in power, what do you say to people who believe that systemic racism does not exist and how do you define systemic racism?

- Again, boy, you you're just begging for a two week retreat here.

(laughs) which I'm not surprised at all.

- You know why?

Because so many times we have fluff as a definition of it, but it's not necessarily the right definition and so if you don't have a good definition of it then you're continued to be led astray, right?

- Absolutely, I could not agree more.

So first of all, systemic racism definitely does exist in our American society.

Obviously, we have the original sin of slavery that our country is grappling with, you know, and that doesn't even include the the original Indians that were here, right?

And so we have a system that was built on systemic racism and so, you know, if you take a look back through history, the way our country was built, even when slavery supposedly, we were emancipated and then there was Juneteenth and we were actually emancipated, the system that we came out of, quote, unquote, slavery into was built around that racism and it exists today.

Let's just take it out of racism and look at even gender inequality, we have the Fortune 500 companies and today, November 2nd, 2020, less than 5% of the people running those companies, meaning CEOs are female, right?

And so obviously it's not that women are not smart enough, are not energetic enough, are not passionate enough, don't have the communication skills, don't have the collaboration skills, don't have the innovation skills.

It's because the system, the system that built these corporations were built based on male, the dominant gender in our society today, they were built on those kinds of principles, what the principles that undergird how you how you make selections and so that's kind of what we're dealing with with systemic racism in corporations because of the way that we were built, the way that we were raised, the things that were taught in school, I mean, it literally is everything.

It's the things that we're taught in school, it's the housing and redlining and the places that we live, it's healthcare, who gets it, who doesn't.

It's economics, who has opportunities and access to wealth and who doesn't.

It's small business, who has access to customers and who doesn't so all of these things are systemic and so what I really try to tell people is that each and every one of us as Americans, we're not even talking the global situation, that's a completely different discussion but each and every one of us as Americans has a responsibility at least in my mind, to take a look at their own thinking, take a look at their own power, a lot of this discussion is about power, right?

What do you have power over?

And try to eradicate the systemic nature of racism.

So you may not be able to take back all of the unfair housing.

We talked about Jim my husband, who was raised in Pittsburgh and literally it wasn't even a ghetto, it was the projects.

Of course, his dad was murdered when he was four and his mom had four kids, she was like 19 with four children and so if you think about the hunger that they faced, the health problems, all of them have cancer because they lived right next to steel mills, right?

And so the education system, Jimmy was smart and determined to make a difference.

All of his siblings did not make the same choices so he had a mentor, right?

And again, you think about this guy that took Jimmy under his wing, if it weren't for that, you know, maybe we would have never met, we might not have ever been married, he might not have have had all of the wonderful opportunities to be, you know, one of the first DHRO in the country.

It was that one person that took him under his wing and so when I say that each one of us has a responsibility and an opportunity, I don't care who you are, how much power you have, you have the power over your own sphere of influence in your own thinking and your own actions.

You know, and I think about that gentleman, he's no longer alive today and I just thank God for him, because he saved Jimmy's life.

And so each one of us has an opportunity to, you know, and you and I know this, right?

You have a question you call me I always answer and why?

Because I know that you are our future and I have a responsibility to be there for you.

- I can't tell you how grateful I am.

(laughs) For you and all the other people who have answered that call, you know, and have taken on that responsibility.

If you are just now tuning in with us, we are talking to Dr. Rachel Talton about fighting racism in a suit and pearls and she is the CEO of Synergy Marketing Strategy and Research.

Okay, that was a lot.

(laughs) - Of what?

- Of very good, excellent and I can't tell you how many people have that story that somebody just took the time to extend their hand and bring them along so that that truly is a an important part and factor.

I was talking to a young lady the other day and she says one of the things that's hard for me is that I can't always tell if somebody is being racist towards me or just rude so, you know, we have our overt and covert racism.

Can you describe that a little bit or talk about a good definition for that as well?

- So racism shows up in many ways and I do wanna go back to something that you said a minute ago as soon as I answer this question, racism shows up in many ways and let me just say again, all of us have it, right?

I realized, even in my piece fighting racism in a suit and pearls I talked about how I was when I was younger, I went to an all girls school and I was at one of my very wealthy white friends homes.

And we were having a snack, her mom was making us a snack, we were either playing or doing homework or a little bit of both probably, and her mom said something about those black people.

And the reason I share this with you is that she probably thought that she wasn't being racist and and so she said something about those black people and I was like, excuse me, I'm black.

And she was like, no, not really.

And I said, no, my mom is black and my dad is black and I'm sure I'm black.

And she said no, not really.

I mean, she literally did not invite me into her whiteness, she just discounted my blackness and I literally just disappeared in that moment and I realized that over 30 years that I have been doing that, throughout my career that I have been disappearing, making myself smaller in order to to make other people feel okay.

So I say that to say that in her mind, her statement might not have been racist.

In my mind, her statement was both racist and rude, right?

And so we have to really be careful that when we say things to people, we listen to the words that we say and we make sure, and all of us are guilty of this.

Someone asked me actually, you know, have you talked to her?

Like, what does she think now?

And I have not but I would forgive her for making a mistake, we all make mistakes.

I actually I said something to someone about three years ago about about a Jewish holiday and I was joking, I mean, I'm the most open, honest, loving one, I literally love everyone.

But it offended someone and she said, you know, that that made me feel terrible when you said that if I was absolutely mortified with myself but I said, I'm so sorry and thank you for telling me that the statement that I made, I mean, I thought it was Jewish till I was eight years old, literally like all of my friends in Cleveland Heights because that's where I grew up, were Jewish, I would go to synagogue with them, they would come to church with me so I was absolutely mortified that I made that mistake but we're human, right?

We make mistakes.

The issue is what do you do about it then?

Do you apologize and hug that person and say I'm so sorry?

That's the first step.

Do you then not do it again?

Right?

Check yourself, check yourself, check your biases because again, we all have them.

The idea of being rude, you know, that's again a whole nother discussion but I do wanna say that, you know, always go back to grandma, right?

You know, your grandmother said, if you don't wanna be spoken to in a certain way, you don't speak to people in that way, just don't.

You know what I mean?

Like some of this stuff is just literally going back to you with your mother's say, what did they tell you in kindergarten, you know, if you're not gonna say it in front of grandma, then probably you shouldn't be saying it.

I do wanna go back to something that you said about Jim and and the mentorship that changed his life, here's an important point.

Because, you know, I love the fact that it was a black man that took Jim under his wing and took him to Washington DC, I mean, you know, most people never left those projects and their community and so he was really able to change his life.

However, I had a mentor and have a mentor who is a white male, we could not be more different.

He is a white Republican and accountant like, we literally could not be more different if you couldn't make it up and we we connected over our love of Africa, right?

He had traveled to Africa and I said, I've been to Africa 13 times.

And he was like, really and so we built this friendship and mentorship.

He sponsored me, he helped me build Synergy, he helped me literally on his living room floor build Synergy.

So just because the person who takes your hand and leads you and cares for you and sponsors you as well as mentors you looks like you, that's great but they don't have to look like you.

Going back to the idea that it is all of our responsibility to really try to eradicate systemic racism, misogyny, xenophobia and all of it is as best we can.

I also wanna say another thing just because we haven't touched on it and it is about the LGBTQ+ community and how, you know, obviously disproportionately black LGBTQ+ people are murdered and have violence committed against them but there's another community that we also have to take our arms and wrap them around our brothers and sisters.

- Absolutely and real quick, I wanted to know, okay so somebody wants to begin this work, they want to begin having this uncomfortable conversation with somebody, how do we get to the point of or how do we even start that conversation of being super uncomfortable?

Or even the people who are afraid of the backlash, you know, if I say something on social media, if I say that I support this, you know, how do we get beyond that and start really being uncomfortable to create these changes?

- Yeah, the first thing is to start with yourself.

So I'm a qualified administrator for an assessment called the IDI, it's around intercultural competency and right, so you know it.

And so in that work which I try to do with many companies that I start with, it's a great way to start with data, right?

And help both individuals and organizations understand where they are on this cultural competency continuum.

I would say that it's a great tool, like that's a great tool, Debbie Plummer has a great tool to kind of find out where we are.

Harvard University also has an unconscious bias assessment as well with many, many different elements of diversity, right?

We talked about religion, race, LGBTQ, gender, et cetera and so I would always start with myself, start with yourself, don't go out to social media saying anything, make sure that whatever it is that you're saying is true and honest for yourself.

So understand what your own biases are, take a look at your own self and make sure that you aren't going to go out there and say something that then you've got to backtrack, right?

And then once you understand who you are, understand your weaknesses as well then you can stand on whatever that statement you make in social media or when you think about George Floyd again, these performative statements that every company put out, you know, suddenly Black Lives Matter.

Yesterday they didn't, but now suddenly they do, right?

And so I don't mind the performative statements as long as you begin to do the work that is required to make those statements true.

- I hate to cut you off because this is so good.

We have about five seconds.

- My goodness, so much for (unintelligible) (laughs) No worries.

- I wanna thank you so much for your time today, for your insight and just allowing us to be able to get a little bit uncomfortable to get to a comfortable place.

And I just wanna remind everybody that even though we may not agree on everything, we still can respect everything.

So thank you again so much Dr. Rachel for joining us today and thank you for tuning in to Forum 360 where we have a global outlook from a local view.

- Forum 360 is brought to you by, John S. and James L. Knight Foundation, the Akron Community Foundation, Hudson Community Television, the Rubber City Radio Group, Shaw Jewish Community Center of Akron, Blue Green, the Electric Impulse Communications and Forum 360 supporters.

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