I'm Heather Marie montia and you are watching PBS books thanks for joining us PBS books is thrilled to host a conversation with Native America's series producer Jennifer John's and featured guest Aragon star the conversation is especially important as we celebrate Native American Heritage Month in celebration with American Indian Library Association season two of native America is a groundbreaking portrait of Contemporary Indian Country building on the success of season 1 this four-part native directed series reveals the beauty and power of today's indigenous World brought to life with Dynamic stories of the here and now these thematic episodes launch an active dialogue between past and present they reveal the foundational beliefs and tradition that Native Americans carry forward let's take a moment and watch the trailer the thing about native women leaders they have that toughness that backbone I will continue to fight for our most vulnerable people there's always work to be done I'm proud to say that I am a native designer I embrace that as a woman is a part of my responsibility to take care of the environment we owe her our life [Applause] Native America premiered in late October you can watch it today at pbs.org the PBS app and check your local listing so now let's meet our guests Aragon star is an acclaimed artist musician author playwright comic book illustrator actor and more star has garnered accolate such as the best independent recording artist of the year single of the year and songwriter of the year at the Native American Music Awards she is also an artist of multiple mediums and brings indigenous voices to the table in all of them it's my pleasure to welcome aragan hello hi goodness I'm so glad to be here so excited to have you um and and I'm excited to also bring in the series producer Jennifer John's uh she draws on her professional experiences with tribal museums cultural heritage institutions and mainstream oral history and mapping projects to empower native communities to control their cultural heritage on their own terms her research and Technology and access in indigenous communities has led to advisory and consultant positions with the Indian arts Research Center at the school for advanced research story Corp and more it's my pleasure to welcome Jennifer hello everybody thank you for having me we're so excited to have you and I thought we could start a little bit with a question for Jennifer so season one Native America It Came live in 2018 and um it brought it really was the world it showed the world that was created by America's first people um if you if you could basically talk briefly about where do season two take us yeah what I really loved about season 1 is it um it was this opportunity to really um acknowledge recognize and appreciate uh indigenous communities both North to South America their ways of being and doing um the complexities and nuances of their communities and then tied it back to The Descendant communities how they're still engaging in season 2 it was a wonderful opportunity to really push the boundaries and really presence native people now um season one was largely historical archaeological based um and in season 2 we really leaned into trying to find stories within um within tribal communities um instead of going by the typical Regional or thematic areas that you typically see in books maps in sometimes um in Old School Museum sort of uh exhibitions we decided to really go out around themes and we you know broke them down into four different hours and then our um Native producers and directors who were were um all new for this season um really dug in they began researching trying to find stories um from across Indian country that could just really support each of the themes and we began researching outreaching to these communities um to these participants finding out if there was anything they were doing during the hour um and what was really wonderful was just this is my first um uh media media uh project and what I was really thrilled was watching my colleagues um the producers and directors and how they relationship built with each of the participants um how they were working to follow protocols within the communities that we were engaged in just to do things right and and I think that is evident I think by what we see on camera there's a I feel like we got more out of those conversations because of our team our native team who went in and tried to be as respectful and thoughtful as possible and you just get this wonderful I I I call them love letters to Indian Country just this opportunity for us to show people why we as native people love our lands love the these these places that we we come from um that sometimes um in the past have been portrayed not so advant iously and here we just celebrate it all there's there's still truth you know we're not stepping away we're not glamorizing it um and and some of the hours touch and some of the hardships but there's this feeling of abundance that sometimes we um forget that that as history's been written about us we've um we tend to fall into this idea that there's not enough and what I love about this series is we really lean into that beautiful abundance within our communities the these stories um and all of our communities the beautiful thing about it is all of our communities we we are we have song and stories that they're so much a part of who we are and so it's really wonderful to see that interact and and to mesh those stories from our directors and producers who were you know building the scripts they were working in collab oration with our participants they were coming to the table even argon who we had reached out to and said you know we'd love to have you we were so excited when we met her and we you know our eyes are popping she came into the table and said hey what about this what about this I've always wanted to do this and we sat there going actually that sounds really cool like let's see if we can make that happen and we did it so it was it's this really wonderful um it's been this wonderful opportunity to collaborate and the the public now the PBS um viewers have the opportunity to witness some of that to see the product of that deep relationship building that I think is just so necessary right now for in order to presence native people it's really extraordinary to hear so much about your process and um I was just to note right your series is highlighting leaders and and their leaders in the field but the leaders are sometimes silent leaders I mean it might be a weaver right you know and who's working alongside their their mother or you know an ancestor um um someone in their family someone who they respect in the community um it's really tremendous the the work you've you've put together um I want to hear from Aragon though to hear a little bit because I feel like wow so you know you were a featured guest on this show you were telling the story but you also helped to create a a narrative among among among these episodes so can you talk a little bit about your suggestions that you brought to the table to Jennifer and to her team absolutely um Jennifer and the team I got to tell you you know I I have rarely worked with a group of people that were so open to the ideas that I had usually it's like oh we can't do that oh we ain't got the budget for that ah you know and you get a lot of push back even though was like this is how I would showcase myself and so bringing the idea of like now this was sad and I you know a lot of people and some of my K folk were like do you really want to show your mom's funeral on the screen and the more I thought about it was like yes because that's who my mother was she was a person that wasn't um afraid to talk to people or share her life and I was like she has to be on screen so we were having a memorial service for her in Oki Oklahoma where she spent the last few years of her life and then I said to them now if you want to showcase my music there's a place in Tulsa that has a lot of history that people don't know about the church Studios which was the home of the fantabulous legendary Leon Russell who was a big influence on what the music that I created so you know that they said what why sure you know that really shocked me shocked the heck out of me but I knew then that I could would be myself which is you know what you always want to do as a performer is not to put up any errors or try to be more Indian than thou or any of that kind of stuff you just just want to be you and they allowed me to do that well and I found it extraordinary because you shared your music um and and very clever you know your songwriting you shared that but then you also are taking us very personally into your mother's Memorial and sharing about um Native the native praise choir can you can you talk a little bit about your work and even how you became an artist because you certainly attribute much of that to your your mother yes um my mother and my father and my sister were my biggest cheer leaders and um of anything my mother always encouraged me and my sister to go into the Arts and to to sing to express ourselves and mom and dad even though they had a limited budget were um argon what do you need do you need paints do you need you know and when there was enough money on the small salary that both of them earned yeah we can get you a guitar oh you want to learn how to play bass guitar okay yeah go be in that choir go be in that play go write your stories you want a cassette recorder to record your little dramas go ahead we we yeah I mean they were totally encouraging and from a young age and I was talking to a group of people a couple of weeks ago about yeah yeah you know when kids are you know they like to tell stories they like to talk listen to them encourage them because sometimes something like this will all happen you you'll get a kid who'll be like I want to do theater I want to do art I want to do all this but um through all of this they were my Champions and it's it's the they I honor every time I'm singing or drawing or doing in um the series there was a quote and I wrote it down it said the past is the key to building a better future and I feel Jennifer that that your series it's really a blend of history and the Contemporary and it showcasing Innovation creativity and sustainability throughout throughout history right but bringing it to present day could you talk a little bit um I know right the four titles you have new worlds you have Warrior Spirit women rule one of my favorites and then language is life can you talk a little bit about one of your favorite um excerpts or stories that the show follows obviously Aragon is your favorite that is why she's here but talk can we talk about another one that maybe could Link in because also music comes throughout um as so if you could just we we have so many great stories truly there's um I think last I counted what is it um 13 different stories um and and so many different um participants but I think one of my favorites was probably the out of languages life this um the ability to capture the story of the PM aquatis um going and finding these wax cylinders and bringing actually bringing the that there's a point in there there where they have gone to down to this uh Native um the National Archives and video Conservation Center I think that's what it's called library of congresses and um they have these all these amazing recordings and they were able to pull it and digitize what were on these old wax recordings these songs that the community hadn't heard in Forever they actually they' lost it and the the community members that were doing this work had assembled these Elders um and and they had worked with us when we were in this again in this very collaborative relationship we said okay do you have anything going on with this wax cylinder work and they said you know actually what we have um to plan is to run a to to share the recordings with our elders and we said you know can we you know watch that and they thought about it and said yes and so we get there you know and they they assemble at their U Museum and you know we get in there and we have to I get in there instead tell the elders do you do you guys know why you're here you know and they're like not really but let's do that so it's this wonderful opportunity to explain you know give them what season one is tell them what we're trying to do in season two what the episode is and so there's this like okay okay and I said okay so this is the way the cameras going to come this way you know really trying to teach them as much about the process and then telling them when we expected the filming to complete an air and so in that room when they're playing the recordings for the community that's all real the community is sitting there responding and the energy was just so phenomenal they um there was such a moment of um there was so many feelings at once of just um sadness of what a realization of all that had been lost because it was so new to them um half I think the speakers in the room were were could speak Pam monati um the other half were in the process of learning they were reflecting of why they each of them were in that space um but just such strong appreciation for you know I think at some point one of the the community members says you know isn't and I have to paraphrase it something like can can you believe that this recording was done with like this thought process that we weren't going to exist anymore and then here we are you know a hundred years later and it's actually the recording that is like bringing the language back to us like the technolog is bringing it back to us and and they you know they all sat and and were so vulnerable sharing what where they had felt like as these um Elders in the community where they had felt like they hadn't stepped up to the plate and their grieving but just appreciation that the song was finally back and then we were able to um take because they pasati also had gotten a piece of land back a very important piece of land to their community and so they were able to take this song that we had played these things and do this this amazing and and we have these wonderful use of drones and aerial shots to show them um as they take their boats back to this island and um one of their community members who's got the most beautiful voice was singing songs on their arrival and it was just I just like I it made me feel so privileged to see it and and really um witness impact right we're always trying to get everybody's trying to you know we do this work and then we want to make change and impact's going to happen but it was amazing to see impact happen um in real time and see the song Come Back to the land see the song Come Back to the people it just astounded me and this is the stuff we as in in mus museums libraries and archives what we want to happen this is I mean what I wish my colleagues could see so that they could know that this work is so beneficial to all and um this is we want more of it to happen so I'm hoping it inspires people other communities to reach out and and want to do the same work with their communities as someone who's worked in libraries and and museums over my career I I was taken by that segment and I don't know how aragan how how you felt as well but I you know first of all you have this wax cylinder from eight 1890s right so that was also at the Forefront of recording information to understand that and then to realize like okay it's in the National Archive in the depths of the depths of and you capture that and it was so authentic I mean I I kind of was like how did they how did they capture all of the feeling that because everything had felt so authentic and now it's clear it was authentic I mean nothing um yeah we did not I mean it was like a you know it's so interesting this process where you know when you hear scripts it kind of makes you like wait hold on I thought this was a docu series but really what it is is in this process we're interviewing our um participants and sort of doing a best guess of what is going to happen and we hope you know we we sort of they tell us the thing that's going on and we are talking like were making plans and building shoots around that and then it what happens when the camera turns on is really is we're not directing people to do anything we're just following them uh and so it's really sort of just uh this like game of chance and and I think that's the sort of wild part about it now that I've done being on this side of it is just like wow there's so much you have to do and it was wonderful to see like we we I don't think any of us were really prepared for that response from the community and and we had at one point we thought you know there was folks saying do we stop and I was like no no no oh my gosh we got to keep going this is so key like we're we're getting something here and it was also there was um you know they they they wanted to do this to try to um make a difference for their own Community you know and they were excited about the idea of having being recorded now for their future generations and it's um and since then um I know one of the elders that recorded has passed away and so it it makes me happy that we were able to record in that way um just it just makes me realize the importance of media and and what we can do to continue to support our communities well as we think of that episode uh language's life right I mean I I just for for those viewers out there to realize that language was sometimes used in the case of the piece of land um that was taken it was because it was called Whitland for basically there it was in a treaty right is this correct and then yeah you know they change the name of the island to be able to steal this island from the rightful owners and and I think um throughout the whole episode really looking at at language and the importance of reclaiming or or or finding the language again and finding right and and utilizing the language and the thought of of the importance of of language and I kind of I want to talk about um the Navajo co- talkers because I think you also talk about about that in in the series so could I think many people who watch PBS know what the who the nav Navajo coach talkers are but could you Jennifer speak briefly and then I want Aragon to talk about her work in that space yeah yeah so the co- talkers are um were Navajo people that had um volunteered for the wars to um to use their language to essentially create a code to pass codes back and forth um out in these you know contentious spaces and now Navajo I think the important thing to note is that Navajo was one of many tribes actually that was doing this work um it's Nava's most well known and we were able to do that because of one of our participants is um a descendant of Navajo code talkers and from many um sides of her community but um yeah it's a really amazing thing sometimes to think about how our language is is um the the contradictions in history of how our language was used to um protect the United States and also how there we it was also um there were school systems and um Federal programs that were created to try to take it away so it's they're interesting contradictions that we get at and um what we love is really leaning into why language work is so important and how um it's it's much more about how much how culture is tied to it how our livelihood and our way of being and doing is so tied to that language and we we are all there's there's so many people working towards um preserving and perpetuating that uh their languages wherever they're at and and I'm really excited that we were able to show a little bit more and um and there's also and I love argon's work of trying talkers and and and you know break it break it wider bring more awareness to that as well Aran oh yeah you know um what I really loved about telling that these particular stories in Tales of the mighty co- talkers was um to bring awareness to the the the whole co- talking program starting World War I and a lot of people didn't even know that what they had it before of course they had it before world word to it was it was ongoing and it they were Chaka they were kamanchi they were C they were Kaa they were Creek and um to bring all of this to light shows the vibrancy and the necessary work that we all have to do as native people to keep the languages alive you know I mean who who could you have told back then that one day that language is going to save your life and not just your life but a lot of people's lives and if you know if I could build the time machine and go back and try to fix all that I would totally do that because that's the one thing missing of course in my Heritage too is it's like my mother's uh father was a fluent uh Mogi Creek speaker but he chose not to teach his daughters and my father was fluent in kapoo until he went to school and had to speak English so it's lost to me but I'm getting it back and it helps to be around other native people to be hearing the language living the language and um there are so many programs out there now that you know even old folks like me can you know go back and try to learn which is you know that's it's our responsibility we got to do it yeah and I I believe in um the languages Life episode it it's it shared that there were more than was it more than 300 languages spoken in in North America and now there are less than 20 and I think that's extraordinary um and even it went into the history as well I mean that's what's so great I feel like even if you don't know a lot you walk away with a baseline of knowledge you also talked about seoa right and and that his work to record and write and make a language that was really an oral language to record it and write it um can you talk about just that balance because you took so many things forward but really gave us a baseline like how how were you able to set that up and balance it yeah that the the producer director for that um hour Daniel Golding um actually comes from a background and he he's a language speaker himself he's katchen kissan um and he um he's done films around language and still does it and so it was just a natural fit um for our prod our executive producer um to choose him to lead that hour and Dan came with a ton of ideas he came in and said oh my gosh you've got to you know there's this thing in Navajo that's happening and there's there's this thing I heard of in Pasqua and there's this you know this caving out in eastern ban Cherokee Indian Community um and really I think we wanted to show this language work not just being done um in the typical spaces we really wanted to push um and and the awareness that this work is being at done at all different levels in all different ways because that's going to be the best way for us to to get at the level of um preservation and perpetuation that we need for these to bring the languages back so to show it from an academic angle you know to see what these research are doing and how they worked with language teachers in their Community you know to to talk about you know Manny wheelers um Navajo dubbed F films and just kind of out of left field this guy that just said hey let's just try this thing um and see if it's helping and he you know he's got this wonderful storyline behind it and then um to to go out to pass MCA and see these two men who are doing all these efforts to find their language on these shelves eles you know in these Dusty corners and saying like let's bring it back to the community um we wanted to show it as far and wide as possible um and and just really honor this good work and we're really excited because we were just at the association for tribal archives and libraries meeting where we did show languages life and they were we we we got such good response back because I think our language workers felt seen that thank you thank you for showing this work thank you for you know giving a shine on this way and and that it didn't um it made them feel like it it was inspiring to them and that's been one of the greatest things is we did Community screenings everywhere we filmed we went back to the community and brought the films back to them first and um in PM aquati they they they didn't know we didn't go into depth about any of the other hours that we were um or any of the other participants because we were busy focused on them um and then so when we premiered it to them they saw Manny's work and they said what the heck like we we want to do that in our community can we bring Manny out to us Manny had inspired them in eastern um band Cherokee Indian they actually I think want to take the language's Life episode and translate the whole episode into Cherokee so there's a level of like inspiration that's happening and I think what's neat is you know we we created these hours and um we had different definitions of success but in the process of community screenings what we're really thrilled with there the community have really embraced the hours and they're taking it saying can we take this hour over here so effectively it's become a tool for the communities they're using it to spark conversation they're using it to say this is you know what let me show this person or you know this is a really tough talk topic that we struggle to even introduce this series is introducing it and I think that it's astounded me um just to see that um that and it's changed my idea of success I want to create tools that the community you know and really um through media that that they they want to own that they take back and and they show to others like that that to me is just it makes my heart sing every time I hear it every time they're coming to me and saying you know let's where can we show this can we do this and PBS is really wonderful that way they're offering yes take it there we'll we'll set it up um and free of charge and that they're just so excited by that and I it makes be proud to be part of a project like this well we're certainly excited to have you here if you're just joining the conversation I'm Heather Marie montia you're watching PBS books and I'm here with um Native America's series producer Jennifer John's and featured guest Arun star back to the conversation all right so we've talked about inspiration we've talked about music I want to talk a little bit about creativity and art and I want to throw the conversation a little bit to Aragon to talk about you know throughout all of these episodes I I feel Native America does an amazing job at show showcasing um Native American art whether it's fashion design whether it's um music the hallucination um and but I'm hoping Aragon you could speak a little bit about your art because I think one of the extraordinary things is you create art for people of all ages and one of the things one of the themes one of the through lines that I saw in this series is the importance of family and and involving Youth and the future generation so if you could talk about some of your children's book work in in the response sure um what I was thrilled to be invited to do happened you know you always think oh it happened on accident well I guess it was a happy accident because there was an art challenge that that was going around on the internets about you know draw different things for October and there were different you know drawing prompts which you could participate in well all of the promps I saw just didn't really apply because I love baseball and I was like you know this is like uh World Series time I need to draw my baseball players so me being a big Dodger fan I started drawing my players from the team and some of the Legacy players just putting them up online and um those drawings were seen by many people including the Cherokee author Tracy sell and Tracy knew that a I was native and that I love baseball and she had been pitching a book to co Cula books uh which is part of penguin Rand random house and um the story was of two native players who played against each other in the World Series and I this is not a fictional story this is real it really happened in 1911 Charles Bender played for the Philadelphia Athletics and John Myers played for the New York Giants and they faced each other John was a heavy hitter he was a slugger great catcher um for the Giants and Mr Bender was a phenomenal pitcher who invented the slider which is the pitch that is still us used in baseball today he invented that pitch and they faced each other now I won't tell you who won because you got to read the book but um contemp ERS talks about these two men and what they faced playing a game that they loved I mean they got all kinds of junk from both sides of you know racial slurs just everything not just from the fans but from their own team and but they still showed up to work and because they love the game so much and at one point when they finally did you know meet in this you know in the hollowed post grounds in New York City um everyone expected them to you know you know the chief is going to show up in his war paint and show you what's what and this is how the the like the New York Times is talking about these two grown men on a Major League baseball team um they met were friends enjoyed playing with each other and this shocked people that our native people could a be civil to each other and didn't have all those accoutrements and the stereotypes that come around with that so andore creating this the the illustrations for Tracy's work she knew that a with my love of baseball and with the knowledge that I had of you know the game and everything that I she said you were the only person I could think of that could do this book with me and so it took a you know quite a couple number of years process to do it however it came out this year and um I'm just thrilled the bits to a have something that I created that I love makes such a difference to people because a nobody knows this story and this even our own native people don't know this story and it's shocking shocking to me that you know we've we've had people in the major leagues we still do yet you know we still have to contend with teams like at plan well I love I love I I love your your creativity that you brought um and also you know the being able to amplify a story that that many hadn't heard about is just so wonderful so in the chat right now um we are putting a link to the book for people out there to be able to learn more about about the book tell us the name of the book it's called contenders two Native Americans One World Series awesome okay well we'll make sure to to include that so I know that there are always challenges in creating um films in creating creative work so I I'm wondering if if each of you could talk about a challenge in creating your your work um obviously Jennifer if you can do it for this series and Aragon if if you feel comfortable related to the series or just in your own creative practice and if we start with Jennifer and then go to a gun if that's okay H challenges gosh um what what is there I think probably um I think the timeline you know I think that's um we were brought in in the process um when right after it got green lit and at that point the project is already you know sort of the timeline budgets everything have been set and we were brought in to just begin the research immediately and I think probably um what we learned in the process according to these timelines is that um we we wanted more time to build um relationship build with the communities a little bit more um we did a lot of Outreach actually to to multiple communities to participate um but sometimes there was folks were interested but they had to slow down they they they wanted to slow down a little bit more um they wanted to you know us to maybe go out and talk to a tribal council and do these things and and the tribal council only meets you know x times a year and we you know we weren't going to be be up for the next one and sometimes we had to say no because of that or maybe there was some amazing um opportunity but it wasn't happening in our shoot months our shoot schedule and we couldn't work with that that community so I think that was probably um something that we're going to take into in moving to if we ever get a season 3 fingers crossed you know everybody watch tell everybody um but we would love to have an opportunity to just relationship build a little bit more um and and because there in there's so much inherent in that relationship building where we're getting to the trust we need um and I think our our producers and directors did a fabulous job we found the right people and and you know folks like Aragon are so easy to work with um but you know as we move out hopefully you know if this season does really well we'll the communities will know what Native America is they'll pick up the phone they'll be a little bit more responsive they can we they can show them a product here this is what we did work in working with communities before and there's that trust building can happen you know and there's something that they can refer to I think that would be wonderful for me in in doing another project is making sure that there's enough time for us to uh do this right and and so we can build that trust and accountability that's just so incredibly important in um indigenous relationships great Aragon well as far as creative process um in relation to the series I think it was really difficult to winnow down the five songs I was going to do at the church Studios and kind of you know decide okay how I'm gonna how will I present this this time because people know my music um I started recording back in the 90s the mid 90s and um I was you know rock and roll man you know this that and the other which was great because again this is something people do not expect they do not expect a native woman with an electric guitar yet there I was so rocking out doing what I was doing and then you know deciding to uh go in a different kind of country music vent because I grew up listening to country music because of my dad he loved Bob Wills and Hank Williams and this sort of thing and when you hear that on constant like when you're growing up you cannot not love it I mean I tried to not love country but I realized yeah I'm a hillbilly inside too so so I took that that love of that country music and started writing uh different sounding songs as my musical career went on because I loved you know the sound of the Eagles and um those kind of bands and uh Grand Parsons and I I said I want to do something like this too I mean what if there were more country songs out there that were Native themed or written by native people that you know that weren't kigga or Indian Outlaw or any I mean any again stereotypes this is something that just I mean boy talk about a pet peeve stuck in my craw that's where I'm at with the with these stereotypes so um taking songs like Junior fry bread which is something I wrote about uh well I think he's sack and fox but he may be from your tribe I mean check yourselves is a guy that loves fried bread and goes to every booth and has to has to have a sample of each tribe sprad and to see which one is the best and that's you know the story of Junior fry bread but there was another one that that I love that's featured in the episode is called please do not touch the Indians and again this the whole song deals with stereotypes I live here in Hollywood I've lived here a number of years um mainly because my dad was in the Navy retired in San Diego and the entertainment business was up here so moved up here to be a part of it and um when you see the Productions that come through when you see the actors there you go whoa hello I ain't never seen no like that before so I run song about that and basically it's like you know they put a White Guy In 10 makeup they put a black wig on his head it's no wonder we in on TV they all think we're dead you know and that's kind of sadly kind of where we're at I know there's other projects that have come along but you know I said this this song still needs to be said and people need to be reminded that people aren't always what you think they are and best to just go with the folks you know so there we are well this has been an extraordinary conversation um I'm hoping that you can each share kind of a takeaway so um Jennifer if you could share like a takeaway you want the viewers to take from this series um and for for Aragon if you could then follow it by sharing either a takeaway that you have from watching the series or that you want people to take away as they watch a series Jennifer we'll start with you I think um what I'm really excited to present to viewers is the opportunity to um see how wide and expansive um Indian country is all across America I think you know these are the we're the First Peoples of this land and um to be able to have the opportunity be a part of a project that got to jump around to these areas and show folks um sometimes we don't we forget um when we think about um Native Americans we typically place them in very specific locations um so it's a really wonderful opportunity to grow that awareness of the communities that could live right next door to um new folks who are who who are learning about Native um contemporary native people so it's really neat to be able to offer that but also too for our indigenous folks every time I travel to a community um it I they to me that when I enter into it and I'm engaging with the community I love that that's the center of Indian Country wherever I'm at um but this is this uh project allows those folks to see also other areas in other communities what it looks like the diff the different um settings and the way that the communities engage and I I love that opportunity to show that to our audiences both native and non-native excellent oh my gosh okay I think one thing that I really love about this entire series is how beautifully it's photographed the cinematography is awesome the the shots that they got of gosh chinley and and ceny desay and I Aon Yazi I'm such a fan I mean I love that there are that they they show Native America we in places where you don't think they are like NASA it's like har we're there you know and in fashion designing and the wonderful Betty Oola you know in the community this I I really feel like this this series is showing us in places again like where you don't expect but also in the best light possible and uh the interviews I mean it's so authentic I mean having been a participant I can say for 100% for sure every nothing was staged completely authentic and as it's as we are and I think that that is a great legacy to leave and hopefully we again lead to Series 3 I I it's got to happen fingers crossed for season 3 this has been an extraordinary conversation you both have been fabulous guest I am so appreciative for your creativity your insights your dedication to making this what it was it it is beautiful it is extraordinary it I I mean we didn't even get into all of the environmental and sustainable stuff which I was so much I didn't know I just encourage everyone out there to watch it it is four hours and it is it is more than worth it it is amazing so I thank you both for for being here today and for for allowing us to learn more so thank you thank you both very much and really appreciate it and really excited that we have so many themes for um different libraries and communities to dig into so we're don't have to just exist in November and on indigenous people's day we can be out there every day and there's folks there's easy entry points for folks to tap into it agreed that is so true Indian 247 can't turn it off won't turn it off and I will just have to say kichi which is thank you and kapoo and Mado in Creek because it we are and we are still here thank you Native America premiered in late October you can watch today at pbs.org the PBS app and check your local listing you can also join the conversation at has native americ PBS well we always like to thank our library partners and numerous PBS stations across the country for being here um but most importantly we want to thank all of you for joining us until next time I'm Heather Marie montia and happy reading [Music]