[MUSIC] >> ON THIS WEEK'S EDITION OF NEW YORK NOW.

A WEEK OF STATE BUDGET TALKS AT THE STATE CAPITOL.

WE'LL TELL YOU WHAT HAPPENED.

THEN BERNADETTE HOGAN FROM THE NEW YORK POST AND JOSEFA VELASQUEZ FROM THE NONPROFIT NEWS ORGANIZATION THE CITY JOIN ME TO BREAK DOWN THE WEEK.

AND LATER CURBING CORRUPTION IN ALBANY IS TOP OF MIND BUT HOW DID WE GET HERE?

NYPIRG'S BLAIR HORNER EXPLAINS.

I'M DAN CLARK.

AND THIS IS NEW YORK NOW.

[MUSIC] WELCOME TO THIS WEEK'S EDITION OF NEW YORK NOW.

I'M DAN CLARK.

SO WE HAVE COME TO THE END OF THE ROAD.

THE NEW YORK STATE BUDGET WAS DUE ON THURSDAY AND THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

AND IF YOU WERE AT THE CAPITOL THIS WEEK, THAT WOULDN'T BE A SURPRISE.

LAWMAKERS SPENT THE WEEK IN A GUESSING GAME TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WAS ON THE TABLE IN THE BUDGET AND WHEN THINGS WOULD COME TOGETHER.

THEN ON THURSDAY THEY WERE TOLD THEY COULD GO BACK HOME TO THEIR DISTRICTS WHILE BUDGET TALKS DRAGGED ON.

AND A GRAIN OF SALT HERE, WE TAPE OUR SHOW FRIDAY MORNING AND SOME STATIONS AIR US LATER IN THE WEEKEND.

AND THERE'S A CHANCE THAT SOMETHING WILL HAPPEN BETWEEN NOW AND MONDAY.

SO FOR THE LATEST WE'LL HAVE REALTIME UPDATES ON THE BUDGET ON OUR WEBSITE THROUGHOUT THE WEEKEND AND UNTIL THE BUDGET IS DONE AND PASSED.

THAT'S AT NYNOW.ORG, AND AS ALWAYS IT'S ALL FREE AND THERE FOR YOU ANYTIME.

BUT FIRST, A LOOK BACK AT THE WEEK THAT WAS IN ALBANY WHILE THE STATE BUDGET DEADLINE LOOMED AND LAWMAKERS SCRAMBLED TO MAKE IT WORK.

TAKE A LOOK.

IN THE FINAL DAYS OF STATE BUDGET NEGOTIATIONS ONE TOPIC CONTINUED TO DOMINATE THE CONVERSATION IN ALBANY, THE STATE'S BAIL REFORM LAWS.

THAT WAS AFTER A 10-POINT CRIME PLAN FROM THE HOCHUL ADMINISTRATION WAS LEAKED A FEW WEEKS BACK.

THE PLAN INCLUDED TWEAKS TO BAIL REFORM, TOUGHER GUN CRIME LAWS AND TARGETED INVESTMENTS IN VIOLENCE PREVENTION AND SOCIAL SERVICES AND SINCE THEN DISAGREEMENT OVER HOW THE ISSUE SHOULD BE HANDLED AND WHEN.

ON MONDAY COMPETING RALLIES CONVENED AT THE CAPITOL TO MAKE THEIR CASE.

[CROWD YELLING] FIRST, A GROUP OF DEMOCRATS RALLIED WITH CRIMINAL JUSTICE ADVOCATES AGAINST HOCHUL'S CRIME PLAN AND IN SUPPORT OF A DIFFERENT STRATEGY.

THEY SAY THE ANSWER TO THE STATE'S CRIME PROBLEM IS MORE FUNDING FOR SOCIAL SERVICES LIKE MENTAL HEALTH AND VIOLENCE INTERRUPTERS NOT CHANGES TO BAIL REFORM.

STATE SENATOR JESSICA RAMOS.

>> OUR CIVIL LIBERTIES ARE BEING TROUNCED UPON FOR THE SAKE OF POLITICS.

WHEN WE KNOW THAT DUE PROCESS AND A SPEEDY TRIAL IS WHAT EVERY SINGLE PERSON SHOULD BE AFFORDED.

>> IT'S AN ISSUE THAT'S CAUSED A RIFT BETWEEN DEMOCRATS AT THE CAPITOL WHO CONTROL BOTH THE STATE SENATE AND THE ASSEMBLY.

SOME HAD SAID THAT HOCHUL'S PLAN WHICH WOULD ALLOW JUDGES TO HOLD MORE PEOPLE IN JAIL BEFORE TRIAL COULD ADDRESS THE RISE IN CRIME IN NEW YORK.

OTHERS SAY CRIME RATES AREN'T TIED TO BAIL REFORM POINTING TO THE NATIONAL RISE IN CRIME AND THE LACK OF DATA IN NEW YORK.

ASSEMBLYMEMBER LATRICE WALKER FROM BROOKLYN HAS BEEN A TOP OPPONENT TO HOCHUL'S PLAN.

>> SHOW US THE DATA - EMPIRICAL DATA - THAT SUPPORTS THE 10-POINT PLAN THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH.

SHE CAN NOT AND SHE HAS NOT BECAUSE NUMBERS DON'T LIE.

PEOPLE DO.

>> JUST FEET AWAY, REPUBLICANS AND MEMBERS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT HELD THEIR OWN RALLY MONDAY TO OPPOSE BAIL REFORM.

THEY'VE CALLED FOR THE LAW TO BE SCRAPPED ALTOGETHER BUT THEY'VE ALSO SUPPORTED CHANGES THAT WOULD KEEP MORE DEFENDANTS IN JAIL BEFORE TRIAL.

THEY'VE SAID THAT DECISION SHOULD BE LEFT TO JUDGES BASED ON SOMEONE'S CRIMINAL HISTORY OR PERCEIVED THREAT TO PUBLIC SAFETY.

AND THEY'VE POINTED TO ANECDOTAL STORIES REPORTED THROUGH THE PRESS TO SUPPORT THAT POSITION.

SENATE REPUBLICAN LEADER ROB ORTT.

>> EVERY DAY THERE'S A NEW VIDEO, A NEW REPORT, A NEW VICTIM, AND OUR COLLEAGUES IN THE MAJORITY NOT ONLY HAVE NO IDEAS, THEY PUT FORWARD NO SOLUTIONS.

>> IT'S A POSITION THAT'S ALSO HAD SUPPORT FROM GROUPS IN LAW ENFORCEMENT WHO'VE SAID THEY'RE OPEN TO COMPROMISE ON THE ISSUE AS WELL.

WASHINGTON COUNTY DA TONY JORDAN A REPUBLICAN IS THE CURRENT PRESIDENT OF THE STATE DA'S ASSOCIATION.

>> IT IS POSSIBLE TO STRUCTURE A BALANCED APPROACH THAT PROTECTS THE RIGHTS OF THE ACCUSED WITH THE RIGHTS OF THE PUBLIC TO FEEL SAFE IN THEIR OWN COMMUNITIES, AND THAT IS WHAT WE'VE BEEN ASKING FOR THE PAST TWO AND A HALF YEARS FOR THIS BODY TO ACCOMPLISH.

AND I THINK IT'S DOABLE AND I THINK IT SHOULD BE DONE NOW.

>> THEN, ON TUESDAY, A STANDSTILL.

BUDGET NEGOTIATIONS STALLED WITH NO AGREEMENT ON THE MAJOR OUTSTANDING ISSUES LIKE BAIL REFORM.

THINGS WERE HELD UP, LAWMAKERS SAY, BY HOCHUL'S LAST-MINUTE CRIME PLAN AND TENSION OVER TAX EXEMPTIONS FOR REAL ESTATE IN NEW YORK CITY.

STATE SENATOR GUSTAVO RIVERA.

>> BOTH OF THEM ARE BIG DISCUSSIONS THAT NEED TO BE HAD AND NOT TWO WEEKS BEFORE THE DAMN BUDGET IS DUE WHEN WE HAVE ALL OF THESE OTHER THINGS THAT WE'VE ALREADY MADE SO MUCH PROGRESS ON.

>> THAT DIDN'T STOP ADVOCATES FROM MAKING A LAST-MINUTE PUSH TUESDAY FOR A FEW HOT-BUTTON ISSUES.

AMONG THEM WERE A PUBLIC HEALTH PLAN FOR LOW-INCOME UNDOCUMENTED PEOPLE, GREATER ACCESS TO HIGHSPEED INTERNET AND MORE FUNDING FOR HOME CARE WORKERS.

[CHEERING] >> AND A DEBATE OVER KENDRA'S LAW, A DECADES-OLD LAW THAT ALLOWS COURT-ORDERED MENTAL HEALTH TREATMENT IN NEW YORK.

HOCHUL HAD PROPOSED IN JANUARY TO EXPAND IT GIVING JUDGES MORE OPPORTUNITIES TO USE THE LAW.

BUT ADVOCATES AND SOME LAWMAKERS HAVE PUSHED BACK LIKE ASSEMBLY MEMBER MICHAELLE SOLAGES.

>> YOU KNOW, MANY OF THESE INDIVIDUALS ARE CRYING OUT FOR OUR HELP AND SUPPORT AND SCOOPING THEM UP INVOLUNTARILY IS NOT THE SOLUTION.

RIGHT?

WE NEED COMMON SENSE SOLUTIONS AND THE FACT THAT WE NEED MORE FUNDING FOR MANY PROGRAMS THAT EXIST.

>> ON WEDNESDAY, A QUIET DAY AT THE STATE CAPITOL AS NEGOTIATIONS CONTINUED BEHIND CLOSED DOORS.

LAWMAKERS MADE A LAST DITCH EFFORT FOR MORE FUNDING IN THE BUDGET FOR THINGS LIKE CHILD CARE AND THE HOME CARE INDUSTRY.

LAWMAKERS SAID AT THIS POINT THOSE ISSUES WERE STILL ON THE TABLE ALONG WITH CHANGES TO BAIL REFORM.

SENATOR RAMOS AGAIN.

>> THERE ARE RUMORS OF HORSE TRADING HAPPENING.

ABSOLUTELY.

>> AND THAT'S OF CONCERN?

>> YEAH, OF COURSE, BECAUSE YOU'RE, YOU'RE PITTING PEOPLE'S STRUGGLES UP AGAINST EACH OTHER, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU'RE POLITICIZING THEM BASED ON SOMETHING THAT DATA DOES NOT EVEN SUPPORT.

>> AND ON THURSDAY, A MISSED DEADLINE.

LAWMAKERS WERE TOLD NO DEAL AND SOME WENT HOME TO THEIR DISTRICTS.

THAT LEFT TOP LAWMAKERS AND STAFF IN ALBANY TO WORK THROUGH THE WEEKEND ON A FINAL BUDGET DEAL WITH A TARGET FOR MONDAY.

THAT'S THE DAY THE LEGISLATURE HAS TO APPROVE NEW FUNDING TO KEEP STATE PAYROLLS ON TRACK.

SENATE DEPUTY MAJORITY LEADER MIKE GIANARIS.

>> THINGS WOULD HAVE TO WRAP UP PRETTY QUICKLY TO HAVE US COME BACK BEFORE MONDAY BUT THE COMPTROLLER HAS INDICATED THAT AS LONG AS WE PASS BY MONDAY THERE'S NO PRACTICAL CONSEQUENCE ON STATE WORKERS OR STATE GOVERNMENT.

SO WE HAVE UNTIL THEN.

>> AND LATER IN THE DAY, SENATE MAJORITY LEADER ANDREA STEWART-COUSINS WITH AN UPDATE.

THINGS LIKE ALCOHOL-TO-GO AND RELIEF AT THE PUMP STILL ON THE TABLE, ALONG WITH THE OTHER MAJOR ISSUES LIKE BAIL REFORM CHILD CARE AND HOME CARE.

BUT NOTHING LOCKED DOWN JUST YET.

>> IT'S NOT ONE STICKING POINT.

THERE ARE A LOT OF ISSUES THAT ARE BIG ISSUES.

AND, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TRYING TO GET THEM RIGHT.

AND WE WILL.

[MUSIC] >> AND THAT BRINGS US TO FRIDAY MORNING.

LET'S BREAK IT ALL DOWN WITH THIS WEEK'S PANEL: BERNADETTE HOGAN IS FROM THE NEW YORK POST.

JOSEFA VELASQUEZ FROM THE NONPROFIT NEWS ORGANIZATION THE CITY.

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE >> THANKS FOR HAVING US.

>> JESS, YOU AND I HAVE BEEN COVERING ALBANY FOR A LITTLE LESS THAN A DECADE.

A NUMBER OF YEARS.

AND BERN YOU'VE BEEN COVERING ALBANY NONSTOP.

TO ME, THIS BUDGET HAS BEEN THE LEAST TRANSPARENT SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE.

AND THERE ARE A FEW REASONS FOR THAT, I THINK, LEADERS MEETINGS BETWEEN THE GOVERNOR AND LEGISLATURE ARE HAPPENING OVER ZOOM SO WE CAN'T CATCH THEM IN THE HALLWAY COMING OUT TO SAY LIKE, WHAT DID YOU TALK ABOUT?

>> RIGHT.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT SAYS ABOUT THIS YEAR'S PROCESS?

>> I THINK EVERYONE IS GOING INTO THIS UNCHARTERED TERRITORY BECAUSE WE HAVE A NEW GOVERNOR, BUT YOU ALSO HAVE THESE COVID RESTRICTIONS IN PLACE IN THE BUILDING ITSELF THAT CLOSES DOWN THE HALLWAYS WHERE WE CAN TALK TO ASSEMBLY MEMBERS, SENATORS, STAFFERS, LOBBYISTS.

AND THAT ACCESS IS THE BREAD AND BUTTER OF WHAT WE DO AND HOW WE RELAY INFORMATION TO THE PUBLIC.

AND WE CAN'T DO THAT.

SO IT'S REALLY TROUBLING THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH A STATE BUDGET THAT'S $216 BILLION.

THAT'S MORE THAN SOME COUNTRIES', LIKE, GROSS ANNUAL BUDGETS.

AND WE HAVE VERY FEW DETAILS ON WHAT'S HAPPENING.

>> RIGHT.

JUST FOR CONTEXT.

IN THE ASSEMBLY SPECIFICALLY, WE'RE USUALLY ALLOWED AS REPORTERS TO GO INTO THE CHAMBER AND BEHIND THE CHAMBER TO CATCH ASSEMBLY MEMBERS ON THE WAY OUT AS THEY'RE DOING THINGS.

WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO DO THAT RIGHT NOW.

WE ALSO CAN'T SEE LEADERS COMING OUT OF THE ROOM.

PARTLY BECAUSE THE HALLWAY IS LOCKED A LOT OF TIME BECAUSE PROTESTERS ARE AROUND.

SO IT'S A MESS, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.

BERN, HOW DOES THAT CHANGE THE DYNAMIC, HAS IT CHANGED THE DYNAMIC THIS YEAR?

>> YES, IT HAS, BECAUSE AGAIN WE'RE USED TO A TON OF PEOPLE, ELECTED OFFICIALS, LOBBYISTS ADVOCATES WALKING, RUNNING AROUND THE HALLWAYS AND THAT'S HOW YOU GET YOUR SOURCE OF INFORMATION.

NOT JUST AS REPORTERS, BUT ALL THOSE DIFFERENT ENTITIES.

ONE THING THAT GOVERNOR KATHY HOCHUL SAID WHEN SHE FIRST TOOK OVER, TOOK OVER THE GOVERNORSHIP SHE SAID SHE WANTED A NEW ERA OF TRANSPARENCY.

AS WE'VE SEEN THE MAJOR POLICY ITEMS THAT WERE INTRODUCED WITHIN THE TWO PAST WEEKS, THE BUFFALO BILLS STADIUM DEAL, MULTIBILLION DOLLAR DEAL, AND ALSO BAIL REFORM AND CHANGES, MASSIVE CHANGES, FRANKLY, TO THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, HAVE ALL BEEN INTRODUCED LAST MINUTE.

AND THE GOVERNOR HAS SAID SHE DOESN'T, QUOTE/UNQUOTE, NEGOTIATE IN PUBLIC.

WELL, SHE'S CERTAINLY DROPPING THESE DEALS IN THE LAPS OF NOT JUST THE PUBLIC, BUT ALSO LEGISLATIVE LEADERS, WHO HAD NO IDEA ABOUT THE NEGOTIATIONS THAT HAVE BEEN GOING ON FOR MONTHS AND MONTHS AND WEEKS AND WEEKS BEFORE THESE WERE EVEN UNCOVERED.

THAT'S A MASSIVE PROBLEM ESPECIALLY IF ITS ADMINISTRATION WANTS TO HAVE A COMPARISON THEY'RE MORE TRANSPARENT COMPARED TO THE LAST ADMINISTRATION OR THOSE BEFORE THAT.

>> RIGHT.

SHE'S NOT NEGOTIATING IN PUBLIC ON THESE ISSUES.

SHE'S ALSO NOT NEGOTIATING IN PRIVATE.

>> RIGHT.

>> LAWMAKERS TOLD US THIS WEEK THAT A BIG REASON WE HAVE A DELAYED STATE BUDGET IS BECAUSE OF THESE LAST-MINUTE ISSUES SHE PUT IN THE BUDGET.

WITH BAIL REFORM, IT'S ANYONE'S GUESS HOW THAT'S GOING TO END.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

IF SHE WANTS TO GET PEGGED AS MEET THE NEW BOSS SAME AS THE OLD BOSS, THAT'S CERTAINLY WHAT WE'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW.

>> RIGHT.

EXACTLY.

AND I WANT TO TURN TO THE BILLS STADIUM DEAL WHICH WE DON'T HAVE TO GET INTO THE DETAILS OF, BUT THAT IS SURPRISING TO ME.

I DON'T THINK WE WOULD SEE THAT IN A PAST ADMINISTRATION.

SO WE LEARNED ON THURSDAY THAT FROM SENATE MAJORITY LEADER ANDREA STEWART-COUSINS THAT THEY DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THE BILLS STADIUM DEAL UNTIL THE GOVERNOR PUT OUT THE PRESS RELEASE ON THAT DEAL.

>> WHICH IS CRAZY, BECAUSE AS PART OF THE STATE BUDGET, YOU DON'T ANNOUNCE WHAT THE DEAL IS UNTIL THERE'S A DEAL.

BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO SHOW YOUR HAND.

SO THE FACT THAT THERE WAS THIS BIG ANNOUNCEMENT THAT WAS GIVEN TO THE NEW YORK TIMES THAT, HEY, I THINK IT'S LIKE $600 MILLION BUDGET.

>> 600 MILLION FROM THE STATE.

>> FROM THE STATE.

>> 300 OR SO FROM ERIE COUNTY.

>> FOR HER TO ANNOUNCE THAT VIA THE NEW YORK TIMES BEFORE THERE'S BEEN AN AGREEMENT ON IT OPENS UP THE POSSIBILITY THAT THE LAWMAKERS KNOW WHAT SHE WANTS AND CAN CLAW IT BACK OR USE IT AS LEVERAGE.

SO IT WAS KIND OF A ROOKIE MOVE FOR THIS NEW GOVERNOR TO JUST LAY IT ALL OUT THERE LIKE THAT.

>> I WONDER IF POLITICALLY SHE WAS COUNTING ON I'M GOING TO PUT THIS DEAL OUT AND HERE'S THE DETAILS OF THE DEAL.

AND I WONDER IF SHE WAS COUNTING ON POLITICALLY, IF LAWMAKERS PUSHED BACK, THAT IT MIGHT LOOK BAD FOR THEM AND GOOD FOR HER LIKE SHE MIGHT BE STRONG ARMING THEM.

I DON'T THINK THAT'S HOW IT TURNED OUT, SO FAR.

>> WE HAVEN'T EVEN HEARD FROM HER.

SHE ONLY PUT OUT A STATEMENT YESTERDAY SAYING WE'RE CONTINUING TO WORK ON THIS BUDGET EVEN THOUGH IT'S LATE.

BUT WE HAVEN'T SEEN HER IN PUBLIC IN AT LEAST THIS ENTIRE WEEK.

>> YEAH.

>> AND IT'S ALSO INTERESTING IN TIMING, BECAUSE AGAIN THAT CRIMINAL JUSTICE PACKAGE, THE BAIL REFORM THAT HAS BEEN THE BIG STICKING POINT, THAT WAS ALSO DROPPED WITHOUT ANY KNOWLEDGE PRIOR TO THE LEGISLATURE, LEGISLATIVE LEADERS.

IT WAS VERY MUCH KEPT IN THE DARK.

AND THEN IT HAPPENS TWO WEEKS LATER WITH THE BILLS STADIUM.

AND SO I THINK THAT TOTALLY TORPEDOED CONVERSATIONS, NOT JUST WITH THE LEADERS.

ANDREA STEWART-COUSINS AND SPEAKER CARL HEASTIE, BUT ALSO THE MEMBERS WHO HAVE MASSIVE BACKLASH FROM LEFT-LEANING MEMBERS WHO SAY THIS IS A CORPORATE GIVEAWAY, WHAT ARE WE DOING?

AND ALSO REPUBLICAN MEMBERS, EVEN THOSE UPSTATE WHO TOLD ME THEY DON'T WANT THEIR NAMES TO BE SHARED, BUT THEY'RE LIKE, YES, THIS IS REALLY RIDICULOUS.

BECAUSE WHAT ARE WE DOING?

WE'RE GIVING AWAY TONS OF TAXPAYER DOLLARS ON THE STATE END BUT ALSO ON ERIE COUNTY'S END, WHICH BEGS THE QUESTION: WHO ARE WE SERVING?

OF COURSE, THE GOVERNOR'S FROM BUFFALO.

THE BILLS IS HER HOME TEAM.

BUT IT IS ALL THE WAY AT THE TOP OF THE STATE.

AND OF COURSE YOU CAN MAKE THE ARGUMENT: WHO ARE YOU ATTRACTING?

IS THIS A LOCAL TEAM?

AGAIN, THEY LOST THE SUPER BOWL.

IT'S NOT LIKE THE JETS OR GIANTS.

>> JUST RUB IT IN THE FACE.

>> THESE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT PEOPLE HAVE SAID.

BUT YOU MIGHT GET FLACK FOR THIS DOWNSTATE PERSPECTIVE, BUT THIS IS A TEAM, THAT IT IS NEW YORK'S, QUOTE/UNQUOTE, ONLY NEW YORK TEAM, BUT AGAIN, LIKE, HOW DOES THIS MAKE SENSE?

>> I DON'T THINK IT'S A DOWNSTATE PERSPECTIVE, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.

I WILL CONCEDE, I THINK THAT IF THE BUFFALO BILLS MOVED OUT OF THE BUFFALO AREA AND THEY DIDN'T HAVE THAT FOOTBALL TEAM, I THINK THE ECONOMY OF THAT REGION WOULD TAKE A HIT, FOR SURE.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> BUT DOES THAT JUSTIFY THIS DEAL?

I THINK THAT'S THE BIG QUESTION.

>> I THINK IT'S MORE OF LIKE A CAMPAIGN MOVE.

SHE'S OBVIOUSLY FACING A PRETTY CONTENTIOUS PRIMARY AND A GENERAL ELECTION.

BUFFALO IS HER BASE.

IF THOSE PEOPLE DON'T COME OUT TO VOTE FOR HER, SHE'S GOING TO BE IN TROUBLE BECAUSE SHE DOESN'T HAVE A BIG PROFILE IN NEW YORK CITY AREA.

AND TOM SUOZZI, A CONGRESSMAN WHO IS PRIMARY-ING HER, IS FROM LONG ISLAND, ANOTHER BIG TURNOUT AREA.

SO I THINK SHE NEEDS TO KEEP HER HOME BASE HAPPY.

AND NOT TO MENTION, THE OWNERS OF THE BILLS ARE BILLIONAIRES.

THEY HAVE FUNDED GOVERNORS TIME AND TIME AGAIN, THE PREVIOUS GOVERNOR, AND NOW THIS ONE.

IT MAKES SENSE FOR HER TO TRY TO GIVE HER HOMETOWN SOMETHING.

SO I THINK YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT IT FROM THAT LENS OF, LIKE, HOW IS KATHY HOCHUL NAVIGATING THROUGH THIS BUDGET KNOWING THAT THIS IS HER FIRST ELECTION THAT SHE'S RUNNING STATEWIDE AS GOVERNOR.

SO EVERYTHING COMES DOWN TO MONEY, DONORS AND TRYING TO GET THE VOTE OUT AND TRYING TO GIVE PEOPLE A LITTLE BIT OF WHAT THEY WANT.

>> PEOPLE OFTEN THINK THAT CITIES AUTOMATICALLY GO TO DEMOCRATS NEW YORK STATE, BUT LET'S NOT FORGET BACK IN 2010 CARL PALADINO TOOK ERIE COUNTY FROM ANDREW CUOMO WHEN HE WAS RUNNING.

THIS IS A BATTLE-RUN AREA.

IF YOU THINK BUFFALO IS A SMALL SLICE OF THE PIE, IT'S REALLY NOT.

IT'S THE STATE'S SECOND LARGEST CITY.

SO THERE'S A LOT TO GIVE THERE.

IF YOU LOOK AT PEOPLE LIKE TOM SUOZZI AND JUMAANE WILLIAMS, HER PRIMARY CHALLENGERS, JUMAANE HAS MORE NAME RECOGNITION IN THE CITY.

HE HAS IT UP THERE.

TOM SUOZZI IS A LITTLE MORE TOWARDS THE MIDDLE, WHICH SEEMS TO BE WHERE POLITICS ARE HEADING FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY FOR THIS YEAR'S ELECTIONS.

WE'LL SEE HOW THAT WORKS OUT.

THE POLITICS OF IT IS FASCINATING TO ME BECAUSE THEN YOU HAVE THE DEMOCRATS IN THE LEGISLATURE WHO ARE PUSHING BACK ON CHANGES TO BAIL REFORM INSTEAD OF TRYING TO COME TO AN AREA WHERE IT LOOKS LIKE THEY'RE DOING A ROLLBACK, WHICH MIGHT BE POLITICALLY FAVORABLE TO THEM, BUT THEY'RE SAYING THEY DON'T WANT TO DO THAT.

BERN, WHAT ARE YOU HEARING FROM PEOPLE IN TERMS OF GOING INTO THIS WEEKEND ON THAT ISSUE?

>> RIGHT.

I THINK THERE IS CONSENSUS ON BOTH THE MODERATE AND THE MORE "LEFT-LEANING WE'RE NOT GOING TO MAKE ANY CHANGES" END, BUT THERE WILL HAVE TO BE SOME SORT OF CONSENSUS MADE.

PART OF IT IS A POLITICAL REASON.

WE SAID DEMOCRATS -- THAT'S A BLOODBATH ON LONG ISLAND, FRANKLY, WHERE IT'S PURPLE, BUT YOU HAD DEMOCRATIC NASSAU COUNTY EXECUTIVE LAURA CURRAN LOSE TO BRUCE BLAKEMAN, A COUNTY LEGISLATURE WHO NO ONE THOUGH WOULD WIN AND HE BLEW HER OUT OF THE WATER.

SAME THING WITH NASSAU AND SUFFOLK COUNTY DA.

IF THERE'S ANY INDICATION.

AND ALSO THE CITY COUNCIL RACE, THE NEW YORK CITY COUNCIL, WHICH THE MAJORITY IS DEMOCRATIC, THEY WERE ALMOST EVEN LOSING CERTAIN SEATS IN BROOKLYN WHERE IT HAS TYPICALLY BEEN MAYBE -- BUT HAVE BEEN DEMOCRATIC.

REGARDLESS, IF THAT'S AN INDICATION OF WHAT NEXT YEAR IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE, ESPECIALLY WITH THIS PERCEPTION OF RISING CRIME, OF COURSE THERE HAVE BEEN MORE HIGH-PROFILE CASES ESPECIALLY IN THE CITY.

ALSO, NOT JUST NEW YORK CITY, BUT LIKE ALBANY, SYRACUSE, BUFFALO.

WE'VE HAD THESE STATES OF CRIME, AND PEOPLE ARE, LIKE, WE PRIORITIZE DATA STATES.

AND IF BAIL REFORM IS THAT MASSIVE TOPIC, THEN THEY UNDERSTAND THEY HAVE TO MAKE SOME SORT OF CHANGES, WHETHER IT'S GUN TRAFFICKING.

AGAIN, WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO ABOUT THE JUDGES TOPIC.

BUT ALL THOSE DETAILS THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GET TO THE SPECIFICS, BECAUSE THERE'S NO BILL LANGUAGE RIGHT NOW.

WHAT EXACTLY THEY'RE GOING TO DO RIGHT NOW IS STILL JUST TALKING POINTS.

>> I'VE GOT TO SAY I THINK A BIG PROBLEM WITH THIS WHOLE THING, THE BILLS STADIUM, THE TEN-POINT PLAN, EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING ON, THE HOCHUL ADMINISTRATION HAS DONE A NOT GREAT JOB SELLING THIS TO THE PUBLIC.

I THINK THAT'S WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO.

THESE COULD BE GOOD THINGS FOR HER AND FOR DEMOCRATS IN THIS YEAR'S MIDTERMS, MIDTERMS IN CONGRESS AND THE LEGISLATURE, REGULAR ELECTIONS, BUT THE PUBLIC DOESN'T KNOW WHY IT'S GOOD.

WE'RE OUT OF TIME, UNFORTUNATELY.

I'D LOVE TO TALK ABOUT THIS ALL DAY, BUT WE'VE GOT TO LEAVE IT THERE.

BERN HOGAN FROM THE NEW YORK POST AND JOSEFA VELASQUEZ FROM THE CITY.

THANK YOU, BOTH.

STAYING NOW WITH NEWS FROM THE STATE CAPITOL.

AFTER LAST YEAR'S CONTROVERSIES SURROUNDING FORMER GOVERNOR ANDREW CUOMO, A NEW CONVERSATION BEGAN ABOUT PUBLIC TRUST IN GOVERNMENT.

IT'S NO SECRET THAT ALBANY HAS A HISTORY OF CORRUPTION AND A PROBLEM WITH ETHICS.

AND THAT'S BEEN ON FULL DISPLAY IN THE LAST DECADE.

AT ONE POINT THE SPEAKER OF THE ASSEMBLY AND THE SENATE MAJORITY LEADER WERE BOTH FACING FEDERAL CORRUPTION CHARGES AND THEY WERE BOTH CONVICTED BY THE WAY.

AND THE AGENCY THAT'S SUPPOSED TO POLICE CORRUPTION AND ETHICS IN ALBANY CALLED JCOPE COULD NOW BE ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK AS PART OF THE STATE BUDGET WITH AN EYE TOWARD A NEW WATCHDOG AGENCY.

FOR MORE ON WHY I SPOKE WITH BLAIR HORNER WHO'S BEEN WORKING ON THIS ISSUE FOR DECADES WITH THE NEW YORK PUBLIC INTEREST RESEARCH GROUP.

BLAIR, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> ETHICS REFORM HAS BEEN, I THINK, ON EVERYONE'S MIND THE PAST YEAR, GIVEN THE SCANDALS WITH THE PREVIOUS GOVERNOR, AND NOW LAWMAKERS ARE TRYING TO CRAFT SOMETHING A LITTLE MORE PERMANENT.

I WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THIS BECAUSE I FEEL WHAT GETS LOST IN THIS IS THE WHY.

WE CAN TALK ABOUT ETHICS REFORM ALL DAY.

I THINK PEOPLE HAVE A GENERAL SENSE OF ETHICS IN ALBANY ISN'T GREAT.

BUT WHY DO WE NEED CHANGE, IN TERMS OF ENFORCEMENT OF ETHICS.

I THINK WE ALL KNOW WHY WE NEED SOMETHING.

>> YOU START WITH WHY DO YOU WANT TO HAVE SPEED TRAPS ON THE HIGHWAY.

YOU WANT PEOPLE TO FOLLOW THE LAW.

YOU WANT PEOPLE TO DRIVE AT THE SPEED LIMIT OR AT LEAST CLOSE.

>> RIGHT.

>> IT'S THE SAME RULE IN ALBANY.

YOU WANT TO HAVE AN ENTITY THAT MAKES SURE THAT PEOPLE ARE BEHAVING, WHATEVER THE RULES ARE.

SO YOU CAN'T TAKE THIS FROM LOBBYISTS, SOMEONE IS THERE TO ENFORCE IT.

YOU DISCLOSE ANY POTENTIAL CONFLICTS OF INTEREST.

SOMEONE MONITORS THAT.

SOMEBODY DOES SOMETHING BAD AND THEN THAT ENTITY GOES AFTER THEM, SANCTIONS THEM IF APPROPRIATE.

AND THEY HAVE TO HAVE THE POWER TO DO THAT.

AND THEY HAVE TO BE ABLE TO DO IT IN A WAY THAT'S SORT OF PUBLICLY ACCOUNTABLE BECAUSE IT'S THE PUBLIC'S AGENCY.

IT'S NOT SOME MYSTERIOUS STAR CHAMBER.

AND FOR YEARS, I MEAN I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS STUFF SINCE THE '80s.

FOR YEARS IT ALWAYS BREAKS DOWN IS LAWMAKERS AND THE GOVERNOR, WHOEVER THE GOVERNOR IS, ARE UNWILLING TO CREATE AN INDEPENDENT ENTITY.

SOMEONE WHO IS NOT NECESSARILY CONNECTED TO THE POLITICAL PARTY OR THE LEADER OR WHATEVER.

THEY'RE UNWILLING DO THAT.

AND THAT'S A FUNDAMENTAL FLAW.

AND WE SAW IT PLAY OUT A LOT WITH THE JOINT COMMISSION ON PUBLIC ETHICS WHERE IT WAS WELL REPORTED THEY HAD A SECRET MEETING, WHICH IS SUPPOSED TO HAVE UNDER THE LAW TO DISCUSS ABOUT WHAT TO DO WITH A FORMER AIDE TO GOVERNOR CUOMO.

SOMEHOW IT LEAKS OUT TO THE GOVERNOR AND CALLS UP THE SPEAKER YOUR APPOINTEE IS NOT FOLLOWING THE RULES AS HE SEES IT WITH REGARD TO HOW TO DEAL WITH THAT PERSON.

THAT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN, FIRST OF ALL.

SECOND OF ALL, IT'S NOT THE WAY AN AGENCY IS SUPPOSED TO OPERATE.

AND SO THE PUBLIC HAS TO BELIEVE THIS.

WE KEEP FIGHTING AWAY AT IT.

THIS YEAR, GOVERNOR HOCHUL COMES IN.

SHE BECOMES GOVERNOR BECAUSE OF THE CONTROVERSIES AND SCANDALS SURROUNDING HER PREDECESSOR.

SHE SAYS IT'S BEEN REPORTED THAT SHE WANTS TO BLOW UP JCOPE AND REPLACE IT WITH SOMETHING NEW.

WE'LL SEE.

>> IN TERMS OF JCOPE, IS THE PROBLEM THEY'RE JUST APPOINTED BY MEMBERS OF THE LEGISLATURE AND THE GOVERNOR, IS THAT THE ONLY PROBLEM?

OR DO THEY NOT HAVE THE POWER THAT YOU THINK THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE TO GO AFTER THESE BAD ACTORS?

>> WELL, THE FUNDAMENTAL FLAW IS THE FACT THAT IT'S CREATED AS A POLITICAL ENTITY.

FOR EXAMPLE, SENATE MAJORITY LEADER GETS MORE APPOINTEES.

WELL, THE SENATE MAJORITY LEADER, AT THE TIME THE LEGISLATION WAS PASSED, GETS MORE APPOINTEES THAN THE MINORITY.

WHY IS THAT?

MORE ETHICS, FEWER ETHICS PROBLEMS OR MORE ETHIC PROBLEMS?

I DON'T UNDERSTAND.

IT'S PURELY PARTISAN AND POLITICAL.

AND THEY'RE ALL DIRECT APPOINTEES OF THE PEOPLE THEY SUPPOSEDLY REGULATE.

SO THAT IS A FUNDAMENTAL FLAW.

YOU CAN'T GET PASSED THAT.

THAT'S WHERE THE WHOLE THING BREAKS DOWN.

ON TOP OF THAT, OF COURSE, THEY DON'T HAVE SOME OF THE AUTHORITY THAT THEY NEED TO HAVE IN OUR OPINION.

THEY'RE NOT AS PUBLICLY ACCOUNTABLE.

THEY'RE NOT REQUIRED TO OPERATE IN THE PUBLIC SO THEY DO -- ALL THEIR MEETINGS BASICALLY ARE IN THE EXECUTIVE SESSION.

AND SO BUT THOSE ARE SORT OF THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT YOU CAN FIX.

THE FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM IS IT'S CREATED NOT TO BE INDEPENDENT AND TO BE IN EFFECT A CREATURE OF THE PEOPLE THAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE MONITORING.

AND YOU JUST CAN'T GET PAST THAT.

>> THE GOVERNOR'S PROPOSAL IN JANUARY, SHE WANTED THE LAW SCHOOL DEANS OF THE ACCREDITED LAW SCHOOLS TO PICK PEOPLE TO BE ON JCOPE INSTEAD OF THE ACCREDITED COMMISSIONERS.

HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT IDEA?

AND WHERE, IN A PERFECT WORLD WHERE ETHICS ISN'T PERFECT, WE HAVE A GREAT SYSTEM IN ALBANY, WHERE SHOULD THINGS END UP?

>> WELL, THE GOVERNOR'S PROPOSAL WAS THAT THE LAW SCHOOL DEANS WOULD BE THE SELECTION COMMITTEE THAT WOULD CHOOSE THE PEOPLE THAT WOULD BE ON THE NEW ENTITY THE GOVERNOR CREATES.

>> OH, IT WASN'T ONE LAW SCHOOL BEING CHOOSING ONE PERSON?

>> IT'S 15 LAW SCHOOL DEANS PICKING FIVE MEMBERS OF THIS NEW ENTITY.

>> OKAY.

>> SO THEY HAD TO SORT OF AGREE.

AGAIN, YOU COULD MAKE A PRETTY GOOD ARGUMENT THEY'RE REGULATED BY THE STATE TOO AND THIS ENTITY REGULATES LOBBYING AND A WHOLE BUNCH OF THEM ARE -- THEY ALL HAVE LOBBYISTS.

SO IT WAS THE GOVERNOR'S IDEA.

BUT HER IDEA WAS THAT THE REGULATED SHOULDN'T BE DIRECTLY CHOOSING WHO REGULATES THEM.

SHE'S RIGHT.

IN A PERFECT WORLD, I THINK IT SHOULD BE ENSHRINED IN THE STATE CONSTITUTION BECAUSE THEN IT MAKES IT HARDER FOR PEOPLE TO INSERT A NOTWITHSTANDING CLAUSE.

FOR THOSE WHO WATCH THIS SHOW MAY NOT KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS, BUT IT'S A WAY TO SORT OF PUT SOMETHING IN THE BUDGET THAT SAYS, WELL, ALL THE OTHER LAWS DON'T MATTER WHEN YOU DO SOMETHING THAT NO ONE KNOWS ABOUT.

AND IF YOU ENSHRINED IT IN STATE CONSTITUTION, YOU HAD A FUNDING STREAM FOR IT -- SIMILAR TO WHAT THE NEW YORK CITY INDEPENDENT BUDGET OFFICE HAS -- YOU COULD CREATE AN ENTITY THAT WOULD BE INDEPENDENT AND WHERE THE INDIVIDUALS WERE SELECTED BY SOMEONE OTHER THAN THOSE BEING REGULATED.

THERE'S DIFFERENT WAYS TO DO THAT.

THE PROPOSAL THAT WE'VE BEEN ADVANCING, BECAUSE THE GOVERNOR'S ARGUMENT BACK TO US WAS THE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT TAKES SOME TIME.

WHAT DO WE DO?

SO SOME VERSION OF WHAT THE GOVERNOR'S PROPOSING WHERE THERE'S NOT DIRECT APPOINTMENTS IS KEY.

THE KEY THINGS FOR US THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT, IF THEY COME UP WITH ANYTHING THIS SESSION, DIRECT APPOINTMENTS AND POLITICAL MEMBERSHIP, PARTISAN POLITICAL MEMBERSHIP.

IF THOSE THINGS ARE THERE, IT'S A NONSTARTER.

IT'S NOT QUITE -- DEPENDING WHAT THE PROPOSAL IS, I'LL VIEW IT AS REARRANGING THE DECK CHAIRS ON THE TITANIC AND GIVING JCOPE A NEW NAME, OR PUTTING A MINT DOWN ON THE CHAIR BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE IT A LITTLE SWEETER THAN THEY HAVE IN THE PAST.

BUT THOSE ARE THE LITMUS TEST QUESTIONS: HOW ARE THEY GOING TO MAKE IT INDEPENDENT AND HOW ARE THEY GOING TO MINIMIZE PARTISAN INVOLVEMENT?

AND WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

>> IT'S A DIFFICULT QUESTION.

AND THERE'S ALSO -- WE HAVE ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT.

DO YOU THINK THAT IT NEEDS MORE FUNDING IN TERMS OF THIS AGENCY?

DID JCOPE HAVE ENOUGH TO DO WHAT IT WAS CHARGED WITH DOING?

>> SHORT ANSWER, NO.

WE ACTUALLY HAD TO FIGHT WITH THEN GOVERNOR CUOMO TO GET THE FUNDING FOR JCOPE THAT THEY SAID THEY WERE GOING TO GIVE IT TO.

THE SAME THING HAPPENED WITH THE AUTHORITY'S BUDGET OFFICE.

ANOTHER AGENCY THAT OVERSEES AUTHORITIES.

THEY NEVER HAVE ADEQUATE FUNDING, EVEN IF YOU CREATE THE RIGHT ENTITY YOU CAN STARVE IT TO DEATH WITHOUT ENOUGH RESOURCES.

WE NEVER THOUGHT THAT JCOPE HAD ENOUGH RESOURCES AND WE'VE BEEN PUSHING FOR AN INCREASE IN RESOURCES AND WHATEVER NEW AGENCY IF THERE'S EVER ONE THAT COMES OUT OF THE BUDGET PROCESS WE THINK IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE TO CREATE A NEW AGENCY WITHIN THE BUDGET PROCESS BECAUSE AFTER ALL YOU HAVE TO SPEND MONEY ON A STATE AGENCY.

>> RIGHT.

FUNDING IS ATTACHED.

ALL RIGHT.

WE'LL SEE WHERE THINGS HEAD THIS SESSION.

BLAIR HORNER FROM THE NEW YORK PUBLIC INTEREST RESEARCH GROUP.

THANKS SO MUCH.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> SO WE'LL SEE IF LAWMAKERS COME UP WITH A REPLACEMENT FOR JCOPE IN THE STATE BUDGET.

AND JUST A REMINDER THAT BY THE TIME YOU'RE WATCHING THIS, WE MIGHT KNOW MORE ABOUT THAT.

BUT EITHER WAY CATCH UP ON OUR WEBSITE.

AGAIN THAT'S AT NYNOW.org.

WE'LL HAVE HAVE REALTIME UPDATES THERE ON WHERE THINGS STAND.

IN THE MEANTIME, THANKS FOR WATCHING THIS WEEK'S NEW YORK NOW.

HAVE A GREAT WEEK AND BE WELL.

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