good evening and I'm so happy you're watching us here on PBS Fort Wayne tonight.

We've got a very good show for you.

We've got some legal advice who doesn't want or need some legal advice?

So here's your opportunity to call in if you have some questions (969) 27 twenty is our number and if you're out of the immediate calling area out of two six zero just put a one eight eight eight in front of that number that you see at the bottom of the screen it'll be toll free for you in addition to an attorney tonight we have a wealth advisor.

>> So if you have financial questions, this is your night to call as well.

Overall we're kind of going to sort of be talking about financial planning for long term care and if you have something in that area that you want to know about again, just call us right here.

Meanwhile, let's meet our guests this evening the stars of the show.

>> Did you know you were a star of the show?

Oh, absolutely.

My name is William Stockdale.

I'm an elder law attorney and in practice about three years and I'm looking forward to a very educational and informative discussion on long term care and financial planning.

>> Good.

And you know, that's our mission.

One of our mission statementsphe education and information.

So you're right on OK and we have a new guest this evening which has been on before but Jason girdling you have not been on before.

Correct?

Could you give some ID for our viewers?

>> Absolutely.

My name is Jason Gergi.

I'm a wealth advisor in Warsaw, Indiana.

I've been there for nine years and I'm also very, very excited about being here tonight.

>> So thanks for having good.

>> All right.

And the rest of you again just sit back and relax for the next half hour.

We don't have any commercials during a show so we'll just be going straight through and I'm going to ask questions while I wait for you to give us a call with your questions.

>> All right.

Long term care and financial planning obviously the two go hand in hand if you choose to do something about it.

>> I want to start with you Will if you could discuss the different types of financial accounts that we might be looking at to invest in.

>> Yeah.

So in my practice I do a lot of elder law estate planning, financial planning, not necessarily giving specific financial advice but certainly talking about from a legal perspective from a you know, transferring from generation to generation how certain accounts are handled.

I am very familiar with and I think many of our viewers are very familiar with things like checking accounts, savings accounts, certificates of deposit.

But I wanted to bring on with me a financial planner and a wealth advisor here today so he could share some information about some of the other accounts that are less well known, not that they're less frequently used.

>> OK, yeah.

Let's talk about Jason.

Wil's mentioned the ones most people know about but obviously there are some others that you might look at as options.

>> Absolutely.

I mean there's there's Roth IRAs or 401.

KS and four or three B's if you're saving for retirement there's investment accounts as if you wanted to have certain kinds of investments.

And within each of these each of these accounts you have underlying investments such as annuities or stocks or bonds and you can also withhold have some CDs and money markets within those types of vehicles too.

It just depends on what kind of tax efficiencies you want to take advantage of them and they each have their own little nuances.

Yeah, come along with it.

>> Absolutely.

And they change sometimes.

Yes occasionally yeah.

When the when the IRS or legislators might want to change those those rules.

>> Absolutely.

Does it matter that you know about does it matter that you know the changes if they're changes would you be notified or are you just expected to know?

I think a lot of times that you are expected to know I mean I don't know I don't know if that's something that's really important for a lot of people at any given day.

>> But if you have a good financial adviser or a financial planner, they should be up to speed on any changes from one year to the next and should be able to inform you and your family of those changes.

>> Absolutely.

OK, ok OK.

So there are so many options.

>> Would you say and Jason back to you on this that most people do their investing through work or do they do it personally?

>> I would say most people that I've seen they invest directly through their employer sponsored retirement plan the 401k or four or three B some people have a 457 if you're a government plan or what's called a simple IRA there there's a lot of different vehicles that help you save for the future through payroll without you actually seeing that.

>> OK, OK. Yeah.

All right.

Well all right then you internalized this if I am looking at options at work to invest in what questions should I ask?

>> What do I need to know?

So in most of your employer sponsored plans you're not going to have a lot of day to day control over what the underlying investments are, what stocks you're invested in, what kind of you know, actual investments you have.

>> But what you will be able to decide is what is your level of risk tolerance?

Do you want to be very conservatively invested?

Do you want to be invested aggressively?

And it just depends kind of a lot on what stage of life you're in, what your time horizon is because obviously when people are younger they're a little bit more prone to take risks and be aggressive with their investing understanding that they have many years to ride the highs and lows.

>> You know, as you get a little bit closer to retirement, a lot of times people will take a more conservative approach and be more invested in things like bonds that have guaranteed returns.

>> But maybe you don't have the upside of being you know, in the stock market what do you think about that, Jason?

>> I mean say you know, I mean you're a young man and you're you're you've got a big future ahead of you.

>> But what should people look at in terms of when they should make those decisions to be a conservative investor or risk?

>> Good question.

I think there's a lot of things that really come into play when it comes to risk tolerance.

It is time horizon.

It is you know that comfort level how long you have until retirement.

But it also has to do with your experiences some some folks have had some really poor experiences with investing in the past and and their risk tolerance can change from one year to the next.

And so you really want to be cognizant of each of those pieces again your time horizon, your goals and aspirations and then you know again your experience is based on past performances that you've been through.

>> Yeah, well you mentioned if you've got a long time to do investing that you might be more able to emotionally take the highs and lows.

>> Are people or do people expect that once they, you know, give you X amount of dollars and say invest that for me but it's going to continue to climb that they'll always get a good return?

>> I think the general understanding is that over long enough time spans the market always goes up.

You know, over the last hundred years or so you could count on somewhere between five and 10 percent on average over decades obviously and it seems these days to just swing election cycle to election cycle you'll have, you know, a boom economy and then go right back in the tank.

covid obviously is a huge impact these kind of global pandemic swine flu, H1N1, all these things.

So a lot of times you know, it's speculation more than it is anything else and if people are comfortable and think things are going well then the economy or the stock market can rise and but they also have to be aware that maybe even an international crisis on the other side of the world could affect the stock market here in the United States.

>> Absolutely.

Absolutely.

>> And it will absolutely.

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean there's a lot of factors p come into play with the United States stock market in this day and age.

I mean 50 70 years ago we were more domestic economy and as you know, we become more of a global economy, international geopolitical issues, trade tariffs and different leadership, different laws across the pond.

It really it really can have a large impact on what happens here in the United States for sure.

>> All right.

What's the goal then would you say of financial planning?

I'll let both you answer this.

>> You start Jason.

Yeah, I think the biggest goal to to go into financial planning is just coming up with this strategy strategy strategy between you know, it doesn'tpmay two years old just starting out with not a lot of money like I did graduating college being you know, broke a negative net worth or if you're getting closer to retirement age and you want to come up with an idea of when you can exit when when all the stars will align so to speak with your previous savings, your current savings, your goals and those aspirations that we were talking about along with risk tolerances that we discussed earlier how all those pieces come together in in a strategy to to make sure that you can live a fulfilling retirement for the future.

>> Absolutely.

That's what we're talking about is planning for the future.

>> Well, can you add to that and maybe even what you should know legally as you begin to invest for the future?

>> Yeah, so what I would say is obviously the earlier the better that you get hooked up with a financial advisor whether that's you know, some something employer sponsored or whether that's you out on your own or with a certified financial planner you want to start early because the the better the earlier you get started the more you can save for retirement and you can have a sort of lifestyle that you want to live in retirement.

That being said, if you haven't started until you know, 30, 40, 50, 60 years old, there's still always something that can be done and it's very important to get some qualified assistance and knowing, you know what sort of things based on my lifestyle that I have now, what am I comfortable investing?

Are there things that I could you know, could I invest more?

Should I invest less?

Do I have other expenses that take priority?

But ultimately when I retire at some point if I am fortunate enough to retire, what does that look like?

>> What is the number I need to reach to get there?

That's a tough question and I'm sure that you get that as a financial planner or wealth advisor.

>> Jason, how do you know how much you need to retire?

>> That is that is the that is the you know, without sounding too silly the million dollar question.

Yeah, right.

So it really depends on on your goals.

There's really three different elements when it comes into play with your retirement.

How much are you willing to save while you're working?

How much are you wanting to spend in retirement and how long are you willing to work?

There's only three of those elements that come into play.

So if you're not willing to save enough while you're working then you may have to work longer or you may have to spend less in retirement or if you did a fantastic job the first 10 15 years of working then the opportunities of retiring earlier or spending a little bit more in retirement are really more clear in that picture.

>> Absolutely.

>> And it's hard when will you do a lot of wills so you know you're thinking long term also but aren't there scales or graphs or something that give you an idea of how long you might live?

>> Certainly the IRS has tables that show based on, you know, a person's life expectancy.

So what your age is now what your gender is and they'll say, you know how long you're expected to live.

A lot of insurance companies and investment companies will use these tables to kind of set the foundation of how they decide to assess risk and write policies, things like that.

>> So that's certainly something that exists because that's something that people just don't know.

>> I mean you talk to Jason about, you know, when and where you're going to spend your money at what stage of life.

But you know, the question is like if I need to save something for retirement from retirement until I pass away, how many years is that?

>> So how much money will I need?

The big question there is you know what what are you wanting to spend and how long can you afford to spend at those levels?

So once you retire maybe you have a pension, maybe you've got Social Security.

You know, I have clients who have more income than they know what to do with because they've got a pension, they've got their Social Security, their mortgage is paid and they don't have anything to worry about so they keep saving.

>> Yeah, I've got clients who are retired and saving money.

I've also got clients who are eating into that savings, particularly when we talk about in the context of long term care or assisted living.

You start getting those nursing home bills for four thousand five thousand dollars a month for assisted living somewhere north of ten thousand dollars a month.

A lot of cases in skilled nursing care that can eat through decades and decades of saving incredibly quickly in the thing is because as we've experienced a lot I think especially in the last couple of years that prices have gone up whether it's the grocery store or you know, your dry cleaning or whatever but you know, prices have gone up.

So then we think OK, based on today's market I would need this much money.

>> But then what if prices keep going up?

Well, I have enough it's a hard question.

>> Yeah, certainly if inflation is eight percent I mean I don't know that anybody counted on that and hopefully, you know, that number comes down and it's a little bit more consistent obviously.

You know, the government tells us oh yeah, we're just shooting for two percent inflation every year and it seems like in the last couple of years we haven't really stuck to that goal all that well.

>> But hopefully better times are coming.

I hope so.

I hope so.

We'll count on that.

In the meanwhile, let's talk >> Is that a good idea or not?

Jason, you start I think it's in some cases very applicable I think and I think we'll probably can he's dealt with more clients than I have of that that work through long term here in that planning.

But yeah, I think it all depends on your you know, you're likelihood of ending up in a nursing home if you have if you have a family history of dementia or being in a diminished capacity, there's there's a lot to it.

But I think well what are you what do you think?

>> So there are some great products out there nowadays particularly anything that bundles long term care insurance with life insurance I think is a good thing typically life insurance because you don't want to pay for long term care insurance for 30 years, 40 years and then not end up using it and you just threw all that money away like you just burning it in the garbage can.

Right.

But if you could couple and there are programs out there that will couple your long term care insurance if you need it during your life for long term care you can take that benefit for the long term care insurance and if you don't use it you can get a death benefit on that policy when you pass away.

>> OK, at what age then should people start consider purchasing long term care insurance if they think that's going to be best for them?

>> Yeah, so unfortunately purchasing long term care insurance is definitely a young man's game.

A lot of times by the time people start having symptoms and think that, you know, maybe long term care insurance is something I could consider if you're in your late 40s, 50s, 60s, a lot of people are going to find that those premiums on long term care policies are exorbitantly expensive if you get it when you're young a lot of times you know, you lock in a low premium and you can ride that out for forty years.

>> But when you're sixty five years old, if you're not disabled or disqualified automatically from long term care consideration, those premiums are still going to be incredibly expensive.

>> You know, the older you are the more expensive to purchase life insurance is the same way everything is OK we're getting a phone call right now here and this is from Arnold.

>> Is that right?

OK, yes Arnold OK. >> Arnold asks this.

He says What advice would you give to someone new to the work force?

>> Oh, good question.

OK, what do you think someone absolutely the I think the biggest advice that I would give would be to try to spend far less than you make if you're able to save start saving five 10 percent of your pay from the very get go and live off below what your Take-Home Pay is essentially pay yourself first if you're just entering the workforce you can have that time horizon that we discussed.

And so you know, if you can save just a little bit every paycheck through a workplace plan or even on your own if your employer doesn't offer then that would be a fantastic start and then the next step would be to try to save a little bit more with every time you get a pay raise or promotion and you save a little bit more percentage a higher percentage.

>> Absolutely.

Yes.

You know and and I don't know if you can do that.

Good for you.

You're the one that's going to win in the end for sure.

I think so do you find that so many people don't even start saving until they're 40 or 50 years old?

>> It's like what are you going to do now?

Yeah.

So I would definitely echo Jason's comments that if you can you know, every time youpget a promotion that's not more cost of living that's you know, try to keep your living expenses relatively stable and that's more money that you can invest in your future and in a second piece is make sure you take advantage of the employer match on a 401k.

>> Right.

If you have to put in a certain amount of money for your employer to put contribution in that that's one hundred percent return on investment in year one.

If you put in two hundred dollars your employer puts in two hundred that's I mean you're making more money on that than you would ever make in the market probably in ten years.

>> So definitely maximize that.

OK, good idea and that's something a lot of people don't know about.

I mean you know they maybe the employer will call an all staff meeting and say OK, we've got some things you can invest in whatever four one K or I don't know what are some other options?

>> Simple IRA simple hiring.

>> Right.

And a lot of the young people don't even know what those things are so they don't say OK, yeah, they don't they don't have that taken out of their check.

>> If you haven't taken out your check you just don't see it so you don't expect it and that's kind of a good thing and yet you're saving in the meanwhile.

OK, good question Arnold.

Thank you for that and thank you for watching Jason talk to me about annuities.

>> Oh good idea.

Not a good idea in some cases they are basically you know it's going to take a step back of what an actually an annuity is is an annuity is essentially a contract with an insurance company that that really just promises certain guarantees or products.

It could be a death benefit at the back end.

It could be a payment for life for the future.

It could be, you know, a protection, a gun against some or all downside exposures.

But you're also going to be giving up certain things as far as the fees, maybe a little bit higher on those annuities you so you have to be cognizant of those and and you may also be limited on your upside potential if if you have that kind of contract so you want to look at both sides because some of them are very good, some of them are not so good.

How am I going to know I would recommend talking to my financial planner to get somebody that knows about to help you.

Sarah has been watching tonight and Sarah, we appreciate you watching your LIFE Ahead here on PBS .

>> Wayne Sarah says she's on a fixed income.

At what point do I walk away from rising nursing home care insurance?

If I cancel, what do I do about pmy care if I need to enter a home and spend down my money and talk about this a little bit if you will will you mentioned long term care and how expensive that can be.

>> Maybe Sarah's got some needs some advice here and you can help her right.

So certainly can't speak to all the details of your situation without having sat down with you reviewed the finances, looked at a long term care insurance, that kind of stuff.

But what I can tell you is that there are a lot of clients out there that my firm and probably everywhere else in the state of Indiana who are coming in and saying listen, I have this long term care insurance, we got a premium renewal notice and the premiums are going up astronomically.

It's no longer affordable.

Should I keep this and should I pentagrams elsewhere or do I continue to pay?

And what I'll tell you is that a lot of times if you don't have long term care insurance, what we're what we try to do is leverage Medicaid to assist to the greatest extent possible with paying for your long term care costs.

So Medicaid is a needs based program if you're a single individual you've got to be under two thousand dollars worth of assets to be qualified for Medicaid.

The rules are a little bit more generous for married couples when you have a community spouse they get an allowance to live on so that they're not impoverished by the cost of the ill spouse's care.

But that's something that you should definitely sit down with an attorney who does elder law work work through kind of what the budget looks like.

Does it make sense for you?

Are there other avenues other than long term care insurance that may be a better fit for your situation?

>> It can get very complicated and again everybody situate it's going to be different and there are different options for different situations.

>> All right.

Let's talk about taxes.

>> Are there tax implications, gentlemen, for investments and for retirement accounts?

And that's what we're talking about our investments for long term care and for your retirement.

>> What do you think, Jason?

Yeah, I mean there's there's the taxes are different on each I mean retirement plans whether it's a pretax 401k for A three B you're going to pay taxes on all the dollars you put the weight normally the pretext for one K works is you put money in you avoid paying federal and state taxes, you let it go tax deferred and then when you go to retirement at every dollar is taxable.

The theory is you're in this tax bracket while you're working and you may be in this tax bracket while you're retired.

Then there's Roth IRAs which money goes in there after tax and then it grows tax free annuities in some cases if depending on what kind of product that it's in, it could be every dollar for the first all the growth could be taxable up front and then the remaining amount may be just return of premium.

So yeah, you have to be cognizant of tax ramifications upon withdrawals in in all those retirement assets always taxes to think.

>> Yeah yeah.

So with particularly with four one KS and IRAs, traditional pretax money, everything you pull out that's going to be subject to federal income tax.

You've also got on other investment accounts if you own stocks you have what's called a tax basis.

So if you bought a stock for one hundred dollars and you held it for 30 years and it's now worth two hundred dollars a share when you sell that share of stock you will have a capital gain on the difference between what you purchased it for and what you sold it for .

So the difference in those two numbers or that hundred dollars would be taxed typically at a rate between 15 and 20 percent.

So that's another tax to be 20 percent on capital gains.

Yes, that's after you've already paid income tax on that money.

>> Right.

So it's certainly want to recommend that you talk to the tax preparer for really specific questions all of a sudden your money's not your money and yeah.

>> Yeah, I think I'm a definitely would recommend talking to a CPA or a tax attorney about specific tax questions that makes them yeah.

I mean I think it's kind of a shame that everybody comes in and they look at OK well I've got this big number in my 401k my IRA maybe not considering that twenty thirty percent of that is actually going to be taxed so you don't really have as much money in your retirement account as you think you do.

Well if you listen to experts like this you'll have some money then for those times in your life as you get older and have to think about your financial planning.

>> I appreciate you both being here.

Thank you.

Good wisdom that you've shared with our audience tonight.

Again, we will see you next Wednesday night right here.

>> New topic, new guess but meanwhile have a great night.

Stay healthy and stay safe