(upbeat music) >>Welcome to "A World of Difference," Embracing Neurodiversity.

I'm Darryl Owens.

Let's start with a good-news, bad-news scenario.

The good news, a recent Eagle Hill consulting study found that 72% of US employees say they would hire a neurodivergent colleague.

The bad news, far too often neurodivergent college graduates, bright, capable, and ready to contribute, find themselves struggling to land meaningful work in a world that hasn't yet learned how to truly welcome them.

Here's a bit more good news.

As more organizations begin to understand the business case for hiring neurodivergent talent, change is happening.

On this episode of "A World of Difference," we follow one newly-minted college graduate on his journey to land his first career role.

Next, we'll see how a financial services giant is welcoming neurodivergent talent into its pipeline.

We'll also hear from a panel of experts from across the country, who will unpack the obstacles neurodivergent job seekers face.

And later we'll introduce you to our latest difference maker, an award-winning author, who literally wrote the book on guiding parents through special education.

But first, we visit the Price Family, who've been intentional and proactive on multiple fronts to help their son, Liam, not just survive the job hunt, but thrive.

Liam graduated from the University of Indianapolis with a communication degree in May, and his journey is one you won't want to miss.

(upbeat music) >>Did she suggest that we needed to discuss changes to your resume, or is your resume good for this position already?

>>It looks pretty good for this position.

>>No changes?

>>Nope.

>>That's cool.

>>There is a couple, you know?

>>A couple tweaks?

>>But that's pretty much it.

>>Okay.

>>I still live at home here in my room, but I do, I would like to live independently at some point.

I've been learning the skills how to take care of myself properly, you know?

Yeah, it was, struggled a little bit at first, but got back on track.

>>I had severe doubts.

I'd seen what Liam was able to do in high school, and obviously he really shined in high school.

He had a lot of supports, but that next level was a fear for me, and for Cindy as well.

I remember dropping him off, and just watching him go through the doors, and thinking to myself, you know, "God, what is he gonna be able to accomplish?"

(gentle music) So from that point of dropping him off to the day.

(Cindy laughing) Graduation.

>>Phew, whirlwind of change.

>>Just watching him cross, and get his diploma, and watched the president of the university stop him, and whisper something into his ear was just phenomenal.

>>And it just amazed me thinking where we started, thinking, "How independent will he be as an individual?"

And here he is.

>>Well, it's a new transition.

I mean, it's been a very eventful one.

>>What I'm finding is is that a lot of these people on the autism spectrum, when they go to college, they get a degree, and they work hard to get that degree, that there are a lot of companies out there that are not willing to take a chance.

So for me as a parent, it's been very frustrating.

I know it's been frustrating for her.

But the other side of it, where it hasn't been frustrating is that when those opportunities come, and those experiences come along the way, you know, he takes those experiences, puts him on his resume, and you got these people that'll sit back and go, "Wow."

>>Go.

(water bubbling) >>He's been here longer than I have.

And, you know, been involved with Special Olympics with Johnson County since it started.

Everybody kinda looks at Liam as kind of the guy that's been there and done that, and looks for him as the model of really how to practice and looks for him as the model of really how to practice and how to perform, and how to approach, you know, the competitions and practices.

>>How you doing today?

>>Great, Joe, how about you?

>>Doing great.

Let's go.

I first knew him as an athlete, and his role with both me and my department in Special Olympics, Indiana has really grown in that time.

Liam writes blogs for us once or twice a month.

He gives an athlete's perspective into topics, events, and people that he and his fellow athletes find interesting.

He is enthusiastic, he is open to any ideas.

He accepts feedback, he brings everything that I want a young rookie reporter to do.

(lively music) (siren wailing) >>It has been quite the journey, and an amazing one at that.

Liam has a special connection to our department.

We have known him here at White River Township Fire Department since he was a young child.

His family has been incredible in teaching him and advocating for him.

And that just grew over the years to the point where we thought it really made sense for him to come here and help out.

He would help organize materials and clean the mannequins after people did CPR on them.

He has taught at the Johnson County Crisis Intervention Team Training, which is invaluable, invaluable.

Liam, obviously being on the autism spectrum, is able to educate us in a way that we'll never fully understand.

>>Rosie, down.

And I also work with the search and rescue dog named Rosie.

I also like to call her Nosy Rosie.

>>They have a connection, and it's undeniable.

>>One of the things you mentioned to me was that people don't often perceive your daily life like you do.

So how will you explain that to people you interview with when they ask you about what kind of accommodations you need, and that kind of stuff?

>>I feel like I'm gonna have to be brave enough to ask for accommodations.

>>I've talked with Liam about what it's like to come out of college for anybody, and going into the work area, work field, and how, when you're young, that alone is a challenge, and then you introduce autism, or any other issues that he might bring to the table, and how to help people understand that there's a gift there too, that I can see things in a way that other people may not, and it's helpful.

>>As far as the internships that Liam's had, I think they've helped him in in building his confidence to continue, you know, pursuing his dream and the end game.

>>We're moving in the right direction.

We feel like, you know, his job search, he wants to do radio, but he also wants to advocate, he wants to help other individuals out there who are going to go down the same road he is, make it a little bit easier for them and their pathway.

And it's people like Ruth, it's people like Chief Pell, it's Special Olympics that have all helped him get the confidence and stuff he needs for his job search.

(gentle music) (upbeat music) >>Surveys show that many companies are beginning to understand the value neurodivergent employees can bring to the workforce.

But not all companies have taken the next step.

Neurodivergent talent with an interest in banking are now finding a haven at Wells Fargo, thanks to the Wells Fargo Neurodiversity Program.

It's a hiring approach built with intention.

One that prioritizes skills, promotes inclusivity, and is designed from the ground up to be accessible and welcoming to all.

(upbeat music) (gentle music) >>The challenges that I faced more so were the structure of employment, like the way that businesses will handle their meetings, and the roles themselves.

With prior jobs, there was just a lot of discomfort.

Even if I didn't know that I had ASD or ADHD, I kinda take pride in being different.

I feel like everybody should be unique and individual.

We all are.

(gentle music) But the difference here is that it's, like, my team knows.

It's a very accepting environment.

I feel comfortable coming through the program, and having like the team aware, and the branch kind of supporting me in that.

>>We want to develop a program, an initiative, that really is focused on bringing this talent through the organization.

I mean, that was the goal.

So our program started in 2020, so we're five years in, with over 300 hires across nine different business units, 20-plus interns.

So, we feel like we've been incredibly successful in our hiring efforts across the organization.

We have a 90%, over 90% success retention rate of our individuals who are neurodivergent.

I mean, like, that's extraordinary, when you think about, you know, kinda industry average.

>>Myself and my team had to learn a little bit about, you know, what, one, what neurodiversity is, because not many people do know, but, two, you know what that looks like for anybody, you know, whether it's autism, ADHD, dyslexia.

After going through the training, and after going through the programs, I was super excited.

I was still a little nervous, like, how does this play out?

Do I have to do anything differently?

But all in all, it's been fantastic.

Jennifer and I work really well together.

And then just the opportunity for us to connect.

It's honestly not much different than I work with my team right now, so.

>>Wells Fargo actually gives you a coach and a mentor when you come through the Neurodivergence Program.

So, my mentor was another banker here.

My coach is in a whole other department, and he serves to help with literally any questions that I might have to do with anything within and outside of Wells Fargo.

So it's a really good, like, personal support to me.

(phone ringing) There's so much flexibility in the way that Wells Fargo actually works with their customer service and our training process.

It just feels full of variety.

It doesn't feel mundane, it's not boring.

So I really enjoy that I can engage with different people.

I'm having different conversations all day.

Sometimes I'm just super energetic, so if I have a break time, I'll try to go on a walk, you know, get on the grass.

But really, it's like a personal energy thing.

I could get very excited.

>>She has a really great connection with her customers, and I've noticed that she takes the time and the patience to really understand them.

You know, sometimes we have those one customers who are a little bit more difficult to kind of understand maybe their needs, and they're not willing to open up.

But I've noticed that with Jennifer, one of our customers, he's usually very closed off and and quiet, and doesn't like to talk very much, but he is just in love with Jennifer.

When he comes in, it's just like, he's like, "I need to see Jennifer.

Can I make an appointment with Jennifer please?"

He stopped in the other day to get cash.

She's like, "I need to see Jennifer."

And he gave her a hug.

I've never seen him hug anybody before.

>>We're really good at this work.

I mean, we really believe that how we've been able to build this structure around neurodiverse talent is quite honestly best in class, and it can be done.

And to kind of move beyond maybe uncertainty and fear to just the realization that this is a brilliant talent pool.

That's the innovation that companies want.

And we believe that this is a talent pool that can bring that innovation to those organizations.

>>I think that aspect of going from historically really not understanding my diagnoses, it's actually getting better.

I feel more confident within myself since working here, and just experiencing the support.

Feeling supported, goes a really long way.

(upbeat music) >>Next, our expert panel breaks down the barriers, and shares real, actionable strategies for building a more neuroinclusive workforce.

(lively music) Melissa Bradley leads tailored career services at Beacon College, the first accredited college for neurodivergent students.

A nationally board-certified teacher, she has 30-plus years in inclusive education and workforce development.

Dannie Lynn Fountain equips neurodiverse employees with tools to advocate for change and navigate complex systems.

Author of seven books, she bridges accessibility with business strategy to reshape workplace norms.

Dr.

Christopher E. Whelpley researches neurodiversity and employment, with emphasis on autism and workplace inclusion.

His work appears in top journals and outlets, like "The Economist" and "Psychology Today."

And we're gonna start our conversation with Melissa Bradley.

So Melissa, what are the most common misconceptions or challenges that neurodivergent college graduates face when they first begin their job search?

And how does Beacon College help to address these challenges?

>>Thank you, Darryl.

These are great questions.

You know, it's a misconception that getting a job is going to be easy, and won't require more than a strong resume and a successful interview.

Those days are long gone, for not only neurodiverse individuals, but neurotypical graduates as well.

Another misconception is that people are going to secure employment immediately upon graduation.

These are not the trends we're seeing in the marketplace today.

It's not uncommon today for it to take anywhere from 8 to 10 months to secure full-time employment after graduation.

Companies today, of all sizes and countless industries, are eager to meet and consider candidates with a variety of stackable internship experiences, work, even volunteer experiences that really demonstrate throughout their time in college, not just their senior year, their skills that reflect their capabilities, and their impact on any business or organization they may have served.

They're also really trying their best to identify strong candidates through skills-based assessments.

given during the application phases, or throughout the hiring process, in conjunction with various interview phases they're going to be experiencing, companies are using these assessments to often better determine the job skills of a potential candidate, or even align those skills with the needed jobs that they are really actively seeking to staff, versus the one the student or the graduate may have initially applied for.

So here at our center, and across the campus, we're helping our students and our graduates develop resources such as e-portfolios for all different majors, not just tech driven, that reflect their learning experiences and their work products, such as project-based learning endeavors, that will really help transfer and translate to hiring managers who are looking for new talent.

>>So Dr.

Whelpley, from an academic perspective, what are some of the more significant systemic barriers or biases that neurodivergent jobs seekers encounter during the initial job hunting process, and how does that impact their prospects?

>>Sure.

So obviously companies who are hiring anybody, neurodiverse or not, they need to figure out a selection process or selection tool by which to hire these people.

And more often than not, that's gonna mean a job interview.

And what research has shown us is that neurodiverse people tend to not perform as well as job interviews, relative to neurotypical individuals.

And I really appreciated the perspective that Melissa just gave us concerning giving people skills, skill-based assessments, ways to bring those into organizations, or ways to talk about those things with organizations.

But unfortunately, the research that we've done shows that even if you are perceived as qualified for a job, and you're interviewing for it, you're still gonna be less likely to be hired, relative to similarly-qualified neurotypical individuals.

And we know this, because if you are reading a transcript of an interview, as opposed to watching an interview, we actually have neurodiverse people outperform neurotypical individuals.

So what this shows us is it's less about what people are actually saying, what skills they're actually bringing, and instead, it's about the social perceptions, whether it be around speech, body language, eye language, things like that, or eye contact, things like that, that are unfortunately making decisions for people during that interview process.

>>So Dannie Lynn, from an individual perspective, what are some of the crucial first steps that nerodivergent job seekers should take to identify strengths and suitable job paths so that they can have an effective job search?

>>Common advice that's often given to job seekers is the job you find may not perfectly align with your passions and interests.

And for neurodivergent folks, I encourage them to flip that on their head.

We know and we understand that when neurodivergent folks' interests are directly aligned with the work that they do.

They tend to perform better, specifically due to the benefits of things like hyper fixation, special interests, and improved executive functioning when folks are actually working on something that they care deeply about.

So my first and biggest piece of advice is for students to truly niche into fields of interest, and leveraging their cross-dimensional interests.

So if a student is deeply passionate about French Napoleonic history, and a lover of literature, identifying roles that would actually tap into both of those is going to best prime that student for success.

So understanding that the advice of finding a job, not the perfect job, is less ideal for neurodivergent job seekers, because we do want them aligning their work with their interests for most appropriate success at work.

>>Watch the full "Ask The Expert" segment on our website at awodtv.org if you wanna learn more about this topic.

You can also watch or listen on Facebook, YouTube, or on your favorite podcasting platform.

(playful music) Next, let's meet our latest difference maker.

Some people don't just advocate for change, they build the blueprint for it.

Amanda Morin is one of those people.

As a neurodivergent educator, author, and activist, she has spent her career challenging the status quo, and reshaping how we think about learning, inclusion, and neurodiversity.

She helped launch Understood.org, a lifeline for families navigating learning differences.

And her words have guided millions, whether through her books, her articles, or her work with organizations, from Nickelodeon, to the American Academy of Pediatrics.

Amanda doesn't just speak about inclusion, she lives it.

(upbeat music) (gentle music) >>John.

>>Yeah?

>>May I borrow you for a second?

I have a technical question.

- [John] Yeah.

- [Amanda] It's a new one.

This one I could do in my sleep.

This one I can do in my sleep.

Is it too much on one?

>>No.

>>Okay, I love this too.

The double-empathy problem.

Pacing or fidgeting is weird, because I'm gonna be pacing and fidgeting too, 'cause I pace and fidget all the time, but, like, I can't get it.

All right, this is a little stressful that it's not... It shouldn't be a big deal, but it's bothering me.

I am a neurodivergent neurodiversity activist.

I'm an author, I'm an educator, I am a special education advocate, and I'm a parent.

So I sit on all of these sides of neurodivergence.

And do a lot of training with educators.

I do a lot of training with families.

I do a lot of work with kids, and my whole goal is to make sure that we are working to make a more neuroaffirming world for those kids, so that they don't have to fit into the boxes that we create, and that we expand the world for the kids that we have.

Now, I have three children, all of whom are nerodivergent.

Two of them are autistic.

As my own children got older and they were diagnosed, and I started realizing like, oh, okay, all of these things, like all of the clothes that I didn't wanna wear when I was a kid because they were itchy, right, all of the tastes that I couldn't deal with, because it was too much for me, all of the ways that I couldn't like wrap my head around things, were the same things I were seeing in the kids I was working with.

It was the same things I was seeing in my own kids.

And I realized like, oh, okay, maybe I'm not quirky, I mean, maybe I am quirky, but maybe there's something else going on.

Maybe it's with the way my brain is wired.

(gentle music) So I started writing about neurodiversity later on in my writing experience.

So I started writing information for parents about diagnostics, about special education in digestible ways, because as a parent, I found it really hard to understand everything I was finding.

I was looking at journal articles, I was looking at literature that was for physicians, and I just didn't get it.

And for me, knowing that I could navigate those systems because I understood them, was really important to me to find a way to help other parents understand it.

So HDMI probably... Talking about my neurodiversity came a lot later, once I got more comfortable in the space.

And I work with communities to talk a lot about sort of how do we look at embracing all the minds that come into our spaces.

And so that's kind of what I'm.

What Neeff I talked about today is thinking about how it's hard to be public-facing, right?

It is hard work to be public-facing and to think about what might be going on for you, for all the people around you, and how do you start having conversations about how do I respond?

How do I react?

How do I sort of do all of these things?

The biggest challenge that families face are it's either judgment or the fear of judgment.

When you have students who are disabled in visible ways, parents have an easier time showing up in spaces, because other people understand what's happening.

When you have kids who have neurodivergent brains, oftentimes what you see are behaviors, and that's the outward sign of what they're struggling with.

And so parents face this, like, "Why can't you get your kid under control?

Why is your child always late?"

And so isolation comes from that, right?

This feeling of isolation, like, "I'm alone in this."

I think the first step is being able to acknowledge that everybody needs different things to be their most productive self.

I also think that a society that like really embraces neurodiversity is a society that's able to say like, the path can be different, the journey can be different.

>>One of the things that my child was most afraid of was getting a migraine, right?

And not being able to have access to medicine, because she would not ask an adult to have that.

And the nurse had done a big presentation at this parent.

>>In order to create meaningful change, I think that allies are the most important component of this.

If we have an expansion of the circle of people who are talking about neurodivergence and neurodiversity, I really think that's the piece that's gonna make meaningful change.

It becomes more about this is this person's lived experience, and this is this person's lived experience.

What we need is people to talk about, "Oh, here's what I've experienced in the world."

By understanding that all minds work in different ways.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I am one voice who is showing people that, like, it's okay to be autistic.

It's okay to be neurodivergent.

And it didn't limit me, right?

It actually helped me become who I am.

Exactly.

>>Experiences that I don't know, like, it makes me feel like college is possible.

>>Yeah.

The neurodivergent child that you have today has a whole journey in front of them.

You don't know who they're gonna be, but what you do know is if you bring in support, and you help them understand how their brain works, they can do lots of things.

It's okay to just, like, watch it unfold.

(playful music) >>Thank you Amanda Morin for making a difference.

That does it for this episode of "A World of Difference: Embracing Neurodiversity."

I'm Darryl Owens.

See you back here next time.

You can watch episodes of "A World of Difference" on the Beacon College Facebook and YouTube channels, and on the show's website, awodtv.org.

The website also provides tip sheets and other resources for your parenting journey.

You can watch the show from the PBS app, available on your favorite streaming device, and you can listen on your favorite podcasting platform.

Thank you for watching and supporting "A World of Difference."

(upbeat music) (gentle music) (upbeat music)