♪♪ Discovering our stories is a passion for our guest Nick Sheedy, lead genealogist of Finding Your Roots.

Nick joins us today to share the importance of knowing where we come from so we can better understand who we are.

Nick, what is driving the explosion of the interest people have in trying to discover their roots?

Well, I think that, you know, the- an interest in genealogy has been around for longer than... than anybody can remember.

If you go back to some of the early written- earliest written texts, you know, there's a lot of so-and-so begat so-and-so in the first few books of the Bible.

And so, it's nothing new that we want to know where we came from.

And I think that, you know, there's something really tribal about wanting to know your story and to have a connection, um- a connection to other people, a connection to your community- and, um, that gives people a sense of belonging.

[Scott] Hmm.

How did your own interest in genealogy start?

[Nick] You know, I was really fortunate.

Um, growing up, I...

I knew all four of my grandparents.

I had four great-grandparents living when I was born.

And, um, my grandma Betty, um, was my last grandparent to pass away.

She was 95, and she would turn 100 next month.

Um, but she was born and raised in, um, Newark area, down in the South Bay, and all- [Scott] Here?

[Nick] Yes.

And all of her great-grandparents were California pioneers.

And so, um, she had 49ers.

One of her great-great-grandfathers was- would have been one of the very early 49ers, uh, George Washington Forester.

But he went back to Missouri with a bunch of gold.

Um, and then my dad was born and raised in Placerville, [Scott] Really?

[Nick] um, in that neighborhood.

And so, yeah, I have a personal connection to that neck of the woods.

In fact, this chair back here, um, I got that from my Grand Uncle Forest Sheedy, and he taught high school in Carmichael for many years, in the sixties and up to the mid-seventies.

[Scott] Wow!

[Nick] That chair was bought in, uh- That- He bought that chair at Breuners in Sacramento in 1967.

[Scott] That is a... that is a very famous, uh, old name... [Nick] Yep.

[Scott] ...in Sacramento.

They were, uh, the premier furniture providers in this region.

[Nick] Well, when my Uncle Forest died in 2003, uh- he had no children- and so, we went through his things and he had all of these receipts from Breuners in Sacramento, where he bought most of his furniture and Sterling Silver and all sorts of things.

So... so, I know he paid $279 for that chair in 1967.

[Scott] That was a lot of money back then.

[Nick] It was!

It's a nice chair.

I just had it reupholstered on the back, so- which is why I looked it up.

But, um, you know, for me, I have- I know...

I know some of my family stories because my grandparents told them to me and, you know, I wasn't, like, a little kid sitting at their knee.

You know, I had an adult relationship with these people.

My great-grandfather lived to be 100.

He died in a- in 2000 and, uh, I was 26 at the time.

And so, I got a lot of secondhand stories from grandparents and great-grandparents, um, that really kind of set the foundation for me to want to know more and then start documenting my family, as a genealogist.

And so, a lot of people, I think, are in that position, where they either hear family stories or, you know, they have a hint that there's, you know, something... something to be found and they go looking for it.

And other people, you know, they simply just want to know more about where they came from.

And they have an interest in history, generally, and documenting your family tree kind of puts a personal face on that history.

It puts your... your family into context.

[Scott] When you... when you think about all that you've collected just on your family- you have four boys- what do you hope to pass down to them and what it'll mean to them?

[Nick] Well, I- In... in one respect, I think that knowing where you and your family came from grounds you.

So, it kind of gives you a foundation.

But at the same time, you're really- you're not, like, bound by it.

You know?

It... it doesn't dictate who you are.

And, um, some people might find things that are unsavory and they want to break a cycle.

And, you know, part of family stories is, you know, not- it's not all peachy and, you know, happy stories.

Some... some families have, you know, trauma and travesty and... and, uh, tragedy in them.

And so, quite often, uh, learning your family's story helps put things into perspective and, um, made me realize that, uh, you know, some of the things you might not like about a particular family constellation, um, may have been precipitated by generations of a particular situation.

And that helps motivate you to- Well, and it helps... helps you understand, but also it can help motivate to break a cycle.

And so, you know, family history, it's a two-edged sword, because you... you can't choose who your ancestors were.

They are who they were and, uh- They were who they were.

And, um, to, uh- You know, to realize who they are, you just have to kind of take them... take them as they are.

[Scott] In the work that... that you do with your colleagues and Professor Gates on the show, when... when you're presenting these stories to the personalities that... that are... are being researched, what is it that is most compelling, typically, to them?

Well, you know, it's- I guess, here's the... the, uh, the thing with anybody who might be interested in their family history- is your pedigree is going to be unique to you.

The only people in the whole world who share your exact pedigree would be full siblings.

Even your own parents only share half of their pedigree with you.

And so, everybody's an individual.

And all of our guests come to us with different things they might want to know.

And so, often, the guest, when they fill out a questionnaire, will tell us what questions they have or they will, you know, highlight what they're interested in.

And by doing that, we're able to focus on potential stories that might- that we know might be of, uh, greater interest to our guests.

But sometimes, we have no idea what we're going to find.

You know, we have a... a celebrity guest and they're an A-lister, and, you know, we really want them on the show.

We have no idea who their grandparents were and where they came from.

[Scott] Give us an example of... of a story.

Has there ever been an episode or... or a... a story project that you were- you and your colleagues were doing where it started in one place, and it ended in a place that you and your colleagues couldn't even anticipate?

Uh, this... this has happened a number of times, but I think the one that, uh, that really jumps out at me is Joe Manganiello, um, for season nine.

And, uh, his father's side of the family's in- They're all Italian.

They settled in Boston.

A few of them were in, um, Pennsylvania.

We mapped this whole Manganiello family out and did a lot of research, passed it off to a researcher in Sicily.

We had, you know, this huge Italian pedigree, and then it came back that his DNA was not matching some cousins on the Manganiello side of the family.

And it turned out that Joe Manganiello's father was not the son of the man that they thought was the grandfather.

[Scott] Wow!

[Nick] Yeah.

So, like, a quarter of the family tree just goes away.

And instead, it became a DNA mystery and it became a huge team effort.

Um, Kimberly Morgan and CeCe Moore jumped in and the ins and outs and... and the play-by-play of this research was just- it was crazy.

We were flying by the seat of our pants.

And when it came down to the end, uh, it turns out Joe Manganiello's biological grandfather was African American, and the line traces back to free people of color in the Boston area.

And he even has a Revolutionary War Patriot ancestor- Plato Turner.

[Scott] You're kidding!

[Nick] Yeah, we- Yeah, you know, we could have never anticipated that this is where the story would end up for Joe Manganiello.

And so- And a surprise for him, too, because his father had- They had- I guess, in hindsight, the pieces kind of came together for Joe Manganiello's family.

And this is where knowing some of this history helps explain, you know, maybe some of that family situation that you... you knew growing up.

But, um- But yeah, huge surprise.

Totally an- unanticipated and, you know, a perfect example of how we never know what we're going to find or where we're even supposed to be looking until we start digging in and connecting the dots.

[Scott] I got to ask, when this was shared with, uh, Joe, what- you know, what was his reaction?

[Nick] Well, initially, and... and especially something like this, where his father's living, um, that's not something we break to people, you know, on air without a little heads-up.

So, Professor Gates, in a situation like that, will reach out to our guest and tell them, "Hey, look," you know, "the DNA is indicating something else."

And, um, the guest then has a choice whether they want to proceed or they say, "No, let's... let's... let's, uh, back off of this for a little while," because a revelation like this affects more than just the one person that we're interviewing.

You know, it can turn a whole family's world upside down.

And so, um, yeah, Joe Manganiello was all in, and he's still- he is still all in.

He's one of these- He's... he's probably the most engaged guest after an interview, uh, who just wants to know everything there is to know about his whole family tree.

So, he's been really inspirational that way.

But yeah, he was all in and just, you know, floored by it.

You know, this... this blindsided him, but he's just embraced it with both arms, so- [Scott] Have you ever had a guest who came armed with so much information on their own, I mean, they knew so much that it... it almost became like a mutual project between you and your team and them, themselves?

There have been a few guests like that, that they've come in with an enormous amount of family... family research, and maybe they're not the ones that did it- I mean, you know, maybe the parents or a grandparent or a great aunt.

And they just hand us, you know, uh, an enormous amount of information.

One that comes to mind, there, is Edward Norton.

Um, Edward Norton, very bright man, very interested in history and knew a lot about his family tree.

And his father, too.

His father was a federal prosecutor, a federal attorney.

And, um, uh, they had- They knew a lot about their family tree.

And so, it was kind of a challenge to go digging around for stories that they may not have known, and- even though it was, uh, kind of big news when it broke that, uh, Edward Norton descends from Pocahontas, "the" Pocahontas.

[Scott] Really?

[Nick] Yeah.

Um, they had a- You know, they had an inkling of that, that his grandmother, Betty Harrison, uh, Norton, had, um, said that, "Oh, yeah.

We're... we're des- We descend from Pocahontas," but, you know, he didn't know if it was true or not.

But she's a Harrison from "the" Harrisons of Virginia, and they're descended from the Randolph and the Bolling families.

These were very, very prominent, wealthy families in Colonial Virginia.

And so, you know, we... we put those pieces together and, uh, uh, were able to verify that story that he had a hint about.

But, um, yeah, we were able to tell Edward Norton some stories that he didn't know already.

So that was... that was fun, but that is a challenge, on occasion.

But most of our guests, like most people, um, unless they've done a bunch of genealogy research, they don't know much more beyond their grandparents and maybe great-grandparents.

And so, we're usually... we're usually able to find some stories that, um, give us a great reveal and good surprises.

[Scott] Uh, are there any, you know, sort of folks that typically present you all and- on the show with a greater challenge than others, um, in... in terms of trying to... to... to find the string that connects everything together?

Well, you know, every sort of genealogy has its, um, difficulties, and it really depends because, you know, you're... you're limited by where someone lived, what records were kept in that place and how accessible those records are.

And so, for African American genealogy, we usually hit a brick wall at emancipation right after the Civil War.

I would say that, just guessing, I'm only successful maybe 20 to 25% of the time to positively identify slaveholders, which then allows us to delve into the slave era records, which might, um, allow us to scratch back another generation or two during the slave era.

And of course, we always go looking to see if anyone was a free person of color prior to the Civil War, um, but that's, um, less common, depending where somebody lived.

But there's- I mean, that's the great challenge with African American research.

Um, with Jewish research, uh, often, we see when someone arrived, you know, often in the early 20th century, um, the names are written in such a way that, um, sometimes it's hard to figure out what their original name might have been back in the old country.

And so, we, um- We are challenged there to find an immigration record, an arrival record, a ship's manifest, a naturalization record that helps, uh, establish an exact birth date and an exact place where they're from, in order to focus research in Poland or Ukraine or Belarus or Lithua... Lithuania, wherever we need to go, um, because the records that we need to access in Europe are very local-specific.

And without key information that allows us to focus that research, um, it becomes a needle in a haystack.

And sometimes, it's... it's not, um, practical.

But we have the same challenge with Irish research or, you know, anyone else in that... in that situation.

[Scott] I...

I'm...

I'm curious, how do you find the... the... the folks that ultimately you decide to research and bring on to the show?

[Nick] Oh, um, our producers like to have big name stars because- you know, household names- they... they feel like household names are going to bring in viewers, if you... if you know the name of the person that's going to be, you know, on this week.

Um, but some of our guests are, you know, just top in their field or prominent otherwise.

And, uh, so, our producers might have a... a wish list, but occasionally, someone will reach out to us and a... a... a celebrity will say, you know, "I have a burning question," or "We have a family mystery we would love to have solved."

And so, sometimes, they'll just reach out to Dr. Gates or they'll reach out to one of the producers.

But occasionally, uh, we get a guest on the show just, kind of, out of happenstance.

Professor Gates and the production team had just finished, uh, an interview shoot, and they were out to dinner at a restaurant.

And one of the neighboring tables had a birthday party.

And you know how you do if you're in a restaurant and there's a birthday party- everybody in the whole room joins in, sings Happy Birthday.

Well, Dr. Phil was at the neighboring table.

And so, Professor Gates goes over to Dr. Phil, introduces himself and says, "Hey, do you think you might want to be on... on Finding Your Roots?"

And Dr. Phil ends up on Finding Your Roots.

You know, at the outset... [Scott] Wow.

[Nick] ...we have- I mean, you... you- If you know Dr. Phil, you... you assume that he probably has some Southern roots, just from his drawl.

[Scott] Sure.

[Nick] And he did.

He had roots in Texas and across the South, but we had no idea who his parents or grandparents were, or that, yeah, he's related to the folks who basically endowed Duke University.

Um, and then we had an- a... a crazy story where one of his second or third great-grandfathers, who was a slaveholder, was killed by one of his slaves- and it was like a... a gruesome murder, like, killed with a hoe in a field- and, um, so, you know, stories that we had no idea we might be looking for.

Um, and, um, yeah, just kind of happenstance that he was having a birthday party next to where our team was eating dinner one night.

[Scott] You know, you... you... you mentioned, uh, Dr. Gates and I...

I'm just curious, what's... what's he like to work with?

Tell us a little bit about him.

[Nick] Professor Gates is a class act, and I think that he and his personality really are, um, the driving force behind the success of the show.

You know, we have a fantastic team assembled.

In some respects, it's a well-oiled machine.

In other respect, we're flying by the seat of our pants sometimes.

Um, but Dr. Gates really sets the tone, and, uh, he has such high standards and he is so respected in his field, as an academic and a scholar, and I think that that really lends a lot of credibility to the show.

Um, but on a personal level, he's Skip.

Um, and, um, he's... he's very likable, uh, very outgoing, but he's also very demanding.

He has extremely high standards.

And so, quite often, um, the standards that he sets, the bar he sets is up here.

And so, that really does set the tone for the whole team to, you know, put out a great... a great show.

[Scott] Well, I...

I...

I just have to say, Nick, it is kind of amazing, as I think about it, the amount of precision that I'm sure that you and all of your team, including Professor Gates, have to bring to every single one of these subjects, given the fact that you're... you're building a record that's going to be on television and you're doing it with imperfect information.

That must be quite a daunting challenge sometimes.

It... it is.

You know, we have multiple layers of fact checking that go into... into the show.

So, every statement of fact, you know, we have to have documents to back it up.

We have to be able to justify everything we say.

And so, sometimes, the records aren't clear.

You know, sometimes, you find multiple censuses or different records that give different birth dates.

I had...

I had one, um, one an- an ancestor for one guest who gave a different birth date on, like, four different records.

This is the person, themselves, giving their own birth date.

And so, which one do you run with?

You know, if you- unless you find his actual birth record.

Um, and so, sometimes, there's just discrepancies there that you can't resolve.

So, what can you say?

Well, we end up saying, "Well, he's born around 1865," or, you know, whatever we can say.

But sometimes, that specificity is... is, you know, there's a discrepancy there among the records themselves.

Um, and so, uh- Yeah, sometimes there's a lot of confusion with... with the records.

And so, we have to be very careful when we draw- for- draw- to draw firm conclusions.

Um, however, sometimes that's very simple.

You find a birth record.

That's the person's birth record and it doesn't matter what they said when they got married or what's on their death certificate.

You know, this is a person's birth record.

That's probably their birth date.

[Scott] Hmm.

I...

I want to ask you, for those of us who might just be starting out and we're interested in learning more about our own history, do you have any advice for us in terms of where we start and where the big repositories are that we... we might want to try and access first?

[Nick] For sure.

So, I'd say, for anybody just starting out documenting their family tree, you know, researching their family tree, the first thing I suggest is to talk to your relatives.

And even if your parents are no longer living or, you know, grandparents hopefully, uh, would be a great person to talk to, think about any aunts, uncles, even older cousins.

So, family stories might get passed down to some people that, you know, you've never heard.

And so, you never know what little tidbit of information might help focus your research.

But then, it's like anything.

Just start with what you know and you need to start delving into the actual paper trail research, um, by looking for the nuts and bolts of genealogy- vital records, births, deaths and marriages.

You want to do a census survey.

The most recent census we have available is 1950 at this point.

But you want to find, uh, every census that somebody would have appeared on, you know, during the course of their life.

And this starts to create a profile for someone, um, if you know when they're born, when they died, where they lived in between, now you know where to go looking for additional records.

If you want to start to find- or try to find newspapers, um, or World War I, World War II draft cards, um, or school records maybe, anything that might start to give you biographical information and tell you a little more about who someone was as a person.

Um, but really, you start with what you know, and then each of these records is going to give you key information that will allow you to go back further.

Censuses tell you in what state a person's born, where their parents were born, and, uh, birth, death, marriage records often will name parents of someone.

And so, you start to put the pieces together and as you build your family tree, it leads you to the next step, as you go looking for earlier generations.

[Scott] So, let me... let me ask you this.

How do you balance that... that, uh, inquiry research out with all of this advent of technology with regards to DMA- DNA?

Are these, like, two hands that come together or is one more important than the other?

[Nick] Hopefully they do come together, and that was going to be the next thing I say is also test your DNA, because you never know what the DNA might tell you.

Maybe you have a family mystery you didn't realize you... you had.

Um, but often, the... the DNA is going to, um- You'll see match lists.

Who... who do you match DNA with?

And it will start corroborating relationships with people in your paper trail research.

And oftentimes, the DNA will provide leads to help steer your paper trail research.

And so, that is important.

So, the DNA and the paper trail research go hand-in-hand, um, in that respect, or hopefully they do.

Um, but then, where to look for this?

DNA- If you test DNA at one of the maj... major commercial sites, you know, you're going to get your results online on the Internet.

And, uh, the vast majority of the basic, um, genealogical records that you might want to search are at least indexed online, if not digitized.

And so, you know, we went from you have to go to a library or a courthouse for pretty much every single record to so many records being at your fingertips on the Internet.

And sometimes you need a subscription to certain websites- like ancestry.com is a big one- but there's newspapers.com and "my heritage" and certain other sites.

Um, there's free sites, websites like familysearch.org, which is the, um, website for the Family History Library, which just changed its name to the FamilySearch Library in Salt Lake City, and that's a major genealogical repository.

Um, but many of these large genealogy libraries have an online presence.

And then, if you go to your local county library, they very likely have a local history room or a... a local room dedicated to genealogy even.

And often, they'll collaborate with a local genealogical society, which may maintain collections.

[Scott] You know, that gives us all a great start.

[Nick] Mmhmm.

[Scott] Nick, I think we're going to leave it there.

But thank you so much, uh, not only for the advice, but for all of the work that, uh, I think just reignites a sense of wonder and discovery in all of us.

[Nick] Well, thank you so much for having me, Scott.

This was a real pleasure.

[Scott] All right.

And that's our show.

Thanks to our guest and thanks to you for watching Studio Sacramento.

See you next time right here on KVIE.

♪♪ All episodes of Studio Sacramento, along with other KVIE programs, are available to watch online at kvie.org/video.