FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO InFOCUS PROVIDED BY THE MCCUNE CHARITABLE FOUNDATION.

AND THE NEEPER NATURAL HISTORY PROGRAMMING FUND FOR KNME-TV.

AND VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, AS WILDFIRES BURN BIGGER, HOTTER AND LONGER, IS IT TIME TO RETHINK THE JOB OF FIREFIGHTER?

Cornwell: I WOULD SAY WE ARE REALLY KIND OF APPROACHING A TRAIN WRECK IN A SERIOUS ISSUE WHERE FIREFIGHTERS ARE TIRED.

Gene: AND LOTS OF NEWS ON THE POLICING FRONT.

THE LINE RUNS IT DOWN.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I AM YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT.

LAST FALL AT THIS TIME WE WERE ABOUT TO ENTER A BRUTAL STRETCH OF THE PANDEMIC.

THIS YEAR NUMBERS ARE SPIKING BUT THERE IS A CEILING AND WILL NEW VACCINATION MANDATES HELP?

THE LINE OPINION PANEL TAKES ON THOSE QUESTIONS.

THE GROUP ALSO DISCUSSES NEW PLANS TO BOOST BOTH PAY AND TRAINING OPPORTUNITIES FOR EDUCATORS.

WE'LL ALSO TAKE A LOOK AT HOW THE STATE IS DEALING WITH EQUITY ISSUES IN ITS NEW CANNABIS LEGALIZATION RULES.

WE START WITH POLICING NEWS THAT IMPACTS BOTH ALBUQUERQUE AND THE REST OF THE STATE.

HERE IS THE LINE.

HOW MANY OFFICERS OR DEPUTIES ARE ENOUGH?

THE GOVERNOR WANTS TO PUT 1000 NEW OFFICERS ON THE STREETS AROUND NEW MEXICO.

ALBUQUERQUE ALWAYS SEEMS TO BE MEASURING ITSELF AGAINST 1200 AS A GOAL.

THAT IS MORE THAN 200 OFFICERS AWAY FROM THAT NOW.

WHY ARE THOSE JOBS HARD TO FILL?

IS IT THE CRIMINAL ELEMENT, THE HEAVY HAND OF THE FEDS, THE CULTURE OF SOME DEPARTMENTS?

THE LINE OPINION PANEL IS HERE TO TALK THROUGH THOSE QUESTIONS AND OTHERS.

FROM THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL, POLITICAL REPORTER DAN MCKAY RETURNS.

AS DOES KRISTELLE SIARZA OWNER AND CEO OF SIARZA SOCIAL DIGITAL.

FORMER STATE SENATOR AND LINE REGULAR DEDE FELDMAN IS BACK FOR ANOTHER TURN AS WELL.

I WANT TO START WITH ALBUQUERQUE, GUYS, WITH A KEY SUBSET OF THAT GROUP OF SWORN OFFICERS, THE ONES ON PATROL.

THE CITY HAS 959 SWORN OFFICERS NOW, NOT INCLUDING SUPERVISORS.

ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL REPORTED SUNDAY THERE ARE 404 PATROL OFFICERS, LESS THAN HALF THE FORCE.

KRISTELLE, I THINK THAT GIVES A LOT OF PEOPLE PAUSE.

IS THAT SUFFICIENT?

DOES IT FEEL SUFFICIENT?

IS THE DEPARTMENT DOING A GOOD JOB OF EXPLAINING WHY THAT IS THE CASE BECAUSE SOMETHING IS DISCONNECTED HERE.

I AM INTERESTED IN YOUR TAKE.

Kristelle: IT IS A VERY, VERY CHALLENGING SORE TOPIC THAT I THINK MANY PEOPLE THAT OUR COMMUNITY INCLUDING THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO ARE VERY SAD AND THE TOPIC HAS RUN ITS COURSE.

IT IS A LITTLE ALARMING IN TERMS OF THE 400 THAT YOU HAD JUST MENTIONED.

I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS, YOU KNOW, AND I KNOW THAT WE ARE GOING TO GET TO THE TOPIC OF THE DOJ INVESTIGATION.

I REMEMBER WHEN IT FIRST HIT THE HEADLINES ON A NATIONAL SCALE WE WERE BEING REPRIMANDED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE FOR THE USE OF EXCESSIVE FORCE AND NOW HERE WE ARE IMPLEMENTING SOME OF THE CHANGES AND EVEN CHIEF MEDINA HAD DISCUSSED ABOUT HOW CUMBERSOME A LOT OF THESE PROCESSES AND PROCEDURES ARE.

IT IS ACCOUNTING FOR A LOT OF THE DEPARTURES BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT HE HAD SAID HIMSELF, AND I AM ABBREVIATING HIS KIND OF QUOTATION, ABOUT HOW THE SUBJECT ITSELF IS CUMBERSOME AND IT IS ALMOST -- CUMBERSOME IS THE BEST WORD TO DESCRIBE HOW HE IS SAYING, BUT IT IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY BECAUSE OF THE FACT IT IS THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE INVESTIGATION.

THE MICROCOSM OF CRIME DOES INCLUDE -- IN NEW MEXICO SPECIFICALLY DOES INCLUDE THE RESIGNATIONS AND TERMINATIONS SAYING THAT IN 2021 THROUGH AUGUST 31, 101 RETIREMENTS, TERMINATIONS AND RESIGNATIONS ACCORDING TO THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL AND POLICE DEPARTMENT.

939 NUMBERS BY THE OFFICERS OF THE FISCAL YEAR.

IT IS INTERESTING TAKE ESPECIALLY AS ELECTIONS ARE COMING UP.

ESPECIALLY SINCE CRIME IS NO.

1 SUBJECT THAT ELECTIONS HAVE.

SO IT IS ONE OF THOSE CONVERSATIONS THAT I KNOW THIS IS JAM PACKED TIME AND IT IS SOMETHING -- IT SEEMS SO IMPOSSIBLE TO SOLVE.

Gene: THAT CAN BE AN OVERRIDING FEELING WHEN THINGS DON'T IMPROVE.

SENATOR, US ATTORNEY GENERAL THAT KRISTELLE MENTIONED, ANNOUNCED THIS WEEK HE IS RETHINKING HOW MONITORS WILL AND SHOULD OVERSEE REFORM EFFORTS IN DEPARTMENTS LIKE ALBUQUERQUE.

THERE IS CERTAINLY ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT.

EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT BUT APD HAS HAD SOME NOTABLE MISSES IN ITS REFORM IN HOWEVER MUCH THE CITY IS PAYING FOR A MONITOR IS MILLIONS LESS THAN WHAT IT WAS PAYING IN CIVIL SETTLEMENTS, SENATOR, WHICH IS ABOUT 28 MILLION BEFORE THIS ALL STARTED.

KIND OF A LONG QUESTION THERE BUT ARE WE GETTING OUR MONIES WORTH OUT OF THIS?

Dede: NO, I DON'T THINK WE ARE GETTING OUR MONIES WORTH AND POLICE ARE SPENDING A LOT OF TIME INVESTIGATING THE USE OF FORCE INCIDENTS AND THAT TAKES TIME AWAY FROM PATROL.

TAKES TIME AWAY FROM THE OTHER KINDS OF PREVENTIVE ACTIVITIES THAT THE POLICE NEED TO DO IN ORDER TO GET A HANDLE ON THIS.

JUST BEING VISIBLE IN NEIGHBORHOODS, REACHING OUT TO PEOPLE WHO ARE VICTIMS OF A CYCLE OF VIOLENCE, PREVENTING RETALIATION FOR CRIMES THAT HAVE ALREADY HAPPENED.

BUT, REMEMBER, THESE INVESTIGATIONS AND THIS FEDERAL ORDER DID NOT COME OUT OF NOWHERE.

IT CAME OUT OF JAMES BOYD AND IT CAME OUT OF A LOT OF ABUSES OF THE USE OF FORCE.

SO, WE CAN'T JUST -- AS YOU SAID, THERE WERE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS THAT THE CITY SPENT IN SETTLING WITH THE VICTIMS OF POLICE BRUTALITY ESSENTIALLY.

SO, WE CAN'T LET THAT BE FORGOTTEN.

THE CULTURE CHANGE IS ALWAYS DIFFICULT WITHIN A POLICE DEPARTMENT.

I THINK THAT IS WHAT WE ARE SEEING NOW AND I THINK THAT IS WHY THERE IS A LOT OF RETIREMENTS, A LOT OF PEOPLE GOING AWAY EARLY.

BUT WE NEED TO REMEMBER THERE IS NO IDEAL OF 1200 POLICEMEN TO MAKE IT SAFE IN ALBUQUERQUE.

IT DEPENDS UPON WHAT THE POLICE DO, HOW THEY SPEND THEIR TIME AND -- Gene: HOW MANY ARE ON THE STREETS AT ANY ONE GIVEN TIME.

ALL 1200 ARE NOT OUT THERE.

IT IS AN INTERESTING NUMBER.

GET TO DAN REAL QUICK.

THE STATE PUSHED FOR MORE OFFICERS AND ALBUQUERQUE'S PUSH.

YOUR COLLEAGUES TOOK A LOOK AT STAFFING ON SUNDAY.

THEY POINTED OUT DURING MAYOR MARTING CHAVEZ' BIG HIRING PUSH, THE DEPARTMENT TOOK ON A NUMBER OF OFFICERS WHO THEN BECAME BIG PROBLEMS IN THE USE OF FORCE CASES AS SENATOR MENTIONED.

ANY SENSE OF WHETHER APD SOLVED THAT CONUNDRUM OF KEEPING THE STANDARDS HIGH AND FINDING OFFICERS THAT CAN MAKE THE GRADE.

Dan: I THINK THAT IS A DIFFICULT BALANCE.

LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES THROUGHOUT NEW MEXICO, INCLUDING ALBUQUERQUE, HAVE BUDGETED FOR A CERTAIN NUMBER OF OFFICERS.

AND IT MAKES, YOU KNOW, LEGISLATORS, CITY COUNCILORS FEEL GOOD TO KNOW, WELL, OUR BUDGET INCLUDES MONEY FOR X NUMBER OF OFFICERS BUT ACTUALLY FINDING THAT MANY QUALIFIED CREDENTIALED PEOPLE TO SERVE HAS BEEN DIFFICULT.

IT'S NOT JUST A MATTER OF SETTING ASIDE THE MONEY TO DO IT.

I KNOW ALBUQUERQUE HAS STRUGGLED AND DEBATED PRETTY INTENSELY WHAT STANDARD TO HAVE FOR POLICE OFFICERS.

IS IT NECESSARY THEY HAVE A COLLEGE DEGREE?

YOU KNOW.

ASSOCIATES DEGREE, SHOULD THEY TAKE A CERTAIN NUMBER OF CLASSES IN COLLEGE?

BUT, CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, THE ANSWER THAT POLICYMAKERS ARE DEALING WITH HERE IS NOT JUST TO EXPAND POLICE FORCES BUT TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE DONE IN A SUSTAINABLE WAY WITH THE RIGHT NUMBER OF PEOPLE OR WITH THE RIGHT KIND OF PEOPLE, AND, AS YOU SAID, FORMER MAYOR MARTIN CHAVEZ DID FACE CRITICISM FOR SUCCEEDING IN EXPANDING THE POLICE DEPARTMENT BUT THEN SOME OF THOSE OFFICERS WERE INVOLVED IN POLICE SHOOTINGS AND OTHER HIGH PROFILE INCIDENCES THAT ENDED UP INVOLVING THE FEDERAL INVESTIGATION.

Gene: WERE YOU ON THE CITY HALL BEAT OR COUNTY BEAT?

AM I REMEMBERING THAT CORRECTLY?

Dan: YES.

Gene: WHERE DOES THIS 1200 NUMBER COME FROM?

WHY IS THIS SO FIRM IN CEMENT NOW IN OUR CONSCIOUSNESS IN ALBUQUERQUE.

IT STARTED WITH MAYOR MARTY.

WHAT WAS GOING ON BACK THEN THAT MADE THIS 1200 NUMBER SO FIXATED?

Dede: GANGS.

GANG VIOLENCE.

THAT WAS GOING ON.

DAN, MAYBE I AM WRONG ABOUT THAT BUT THAT WAS RIGHT WHEN I WAS RUNNING FOR OFFICE AND THAT WAS A BIG PROBLEM, JUVENILE GANGS.

Dan: ALBUQUERQUE HAS ALWAYS HAD A HIGH CRIME RATE AS LONG AS I HAVE BEEN AROUND AND ALSO BEEN THE TOP ISSUE OR ONE OF THE TOP ISSUES AT CITY HALL.

1200 NUMBER, YOU KNOW, THERE IS DEBATE ABOUT WHETHER THAT IS -- WHERE THAT COMES FROM.

THERE HAVE BEEN STAFFING STUDIES BUT ALSO, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE AMOUNT YOU BUDGET FOR, I DON'T NECESSARILY PUT A LOT OF -- I DON'T NECESSARILY PUT A LOT OF STOCK IN 1200 AS THE NUMBER THEY PUT IN THEIR BUDGET.

THE REALLY IMPORTANT NUMBER TO ME IS THE NUMBER OF OFFICERS THEY ACTUALLY HAVE EMPLOYED.

AND ALBUQUERQUE HAS BEEN SEEING AN INCREASE IN OFFICERS ON THE FORCE FOR THE LAST FEW YEARS BUT THERE HAS BEEN A BLIP THIS YEAR.

WE HAD BEEN ON THE INCREASE, YOU KNOW, MAKING STEADY PROGRESS TOWARD A LARGER POLICE FORCE AND THEN IT DIPS THIS YEAR.

SO, THE FACTORS IN THAT, YOU KNOW, ARE DIFFICULT TO UNTANGLE BUT IT IS CLEAR THAT POLICYMAKERS WANT MORE OFFICERS, WHATEVER THE NUMBER IS, WHETHER IT IS 1200 OR NOT.

Kristelle: SO, GOING BACK TO THE MYTH OF 1200 OFFICERS, SO, YOU KNOW, CENTER OF PUBLIC SAFETY MANAGEMENT, A STUDY WAS CONDUCTED, A PRIVATE LLC, CONSULTING FIRM FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT HAD SAID THE RECOMMENDED OFFICERS PER 1000 POPULATION, AND AT THE TIME WHEN MAYOR CHAVEZ WAS ELECTED, THAT IS MOST LIKELY WHERE THE NUMBER CAME FROM BECAUSE WE WERE NOT -- WE WERE IN BETWEEN THAT AWKWARD PHASE OF JUST SHY OF A MILLION IN THE GREATER METRO AREA.

SO, I THINK THAT IS WHERE THAT 1200 NUMBER CAME FROM.

I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT IS CULTURE SHIFT AND CULTURE CHANGE.

I WANT TO OVEREMPHASIZE THAT BECAUSE THE ASIAN BUSINESS COLLABORATIVE WHERE I AM VOLUNTEER EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, WE HAVE SPOKEN TO APD SEVERAL TIMES AND THE COMMUNITY POLICING AND REALLY TARGETING AND SHOWING SUPPORT FOR VARIOUS DIFFERENT GROUPS HAS BEEN SUCH A CULTURE SHIFT THAT WE ARE NOT TAKING THAT INTO CONSIDERATION AS A PART OF THE SHORTAGE AS WELL BECAUSE A LOT, FOR EXAMPLE, THEY HAVE CERTAIN OFFICERS THAT ARE DEALING WITH THE ASIAN COMMUNITY, BLACK COMMUNITY, HISPANIC, THOSE THAT ARE MORE RELATABLE -- OFFICERS MORE RELATABLE TO THE COMMUNITIES THAT NEED ASSISTANCE IN SOME WAY, SHAPE OR FORM.

TAKING AWAY TO A NICHE TYPE OF POLICE FORCE MEANS MORE NARROW SCOPE OF WORK WHICH MEANS LESS PEOPLE TO DO THE LARGER MORE IMPORTANT THINGS IN THE WORLD.

THE ASIAN COMMUNITY APPLAUDS THIS EFFORT BUT AT THE SAME TIME WE UNDERSTAND THAT THE CULTURE HAS TO CHANGE IN ORDER TO MAKE THE CITY FEEL SAFER.

Gene: GOOD POINTS.

YOU CAN BET WE'LL HAVE MORE TO DISCUSS IN FUTURE EPISODES.

THE LINE RETURNS IN A BIT TO TALK ABOUT ANOTHER JOB THAT HAS BEEN HARD TO FILL, TEACHERS.

Kaltenbach: IT FELL HEAVILY ON THESE LOW INCOME COMMUNITIES IN NEW MEXICO, TRIBAL COMMUNITIES, AS WELL.

SO, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CREATE AN INDUSTRY THAT ALLOWS COMMUNITIES THAT ARE MOST HARMED TO BE ABLE TO PARTICIPATE.

Laura: WHEN OUR HOMES AND OUR FORESTS ARE THREATENED WE ALL APPRECIATE THE FEDERAL WILDLAND FIREFIGHTERS WHO SHOW UP FOR US FROM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.

THEY FACE BIGGER CHALLENGES EVERY YEAR, ESPECIALLY AS CLIMATE CHANGE LENGTHENS FIRE SEASON AND SPAWNS BIGGER AND MORE SEVERE FIRES.

BUT THEY ALSO FACE STRUGGLES THE REST OF US NEVER SEE.

LONG ASSIGNMENTS AWAY FROM FAMILIES AND SUPPORT NETWORKS, LOW PAY AND MENTAL HEALTH CHALLENGES.

I SAT DOWN RECENTLY WITH CURRENT AND FORMER FIREFIGHTERS FROM ACROSS THE WEST TO TALK ABOUT THESE PROBLEMS AND POTENTIAL SOLUTIONS.

MARCUS, JONATHAN, KELLY, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING ME TODAY.

I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

WE HAVE ALL BEEN WATCHING THE BIG FIRES IN CALIFORNIA.

WE HAVE ALL GOT SMOKY SKIES.

I AM CURIOUS CAN WE START WITH YOU MARCUS.

CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT LIFE IS LIKE FOR A WILDLAND FIREFIGHTER.

Cornwell: SURE.

I WOULD SAY, FIRST OF ALL, IT IS A VERY SORT OF SATISFYING FULFILLING CAREER.

A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT DO IT LIKE TO BE OUTSIDE, LIKE TO HELP THEIR NEIGHBORS.

IT IS A PUBLIC SERVICE THAT I THINK A LOT OF US STILL ARE SATISFIED TO DO AT THE END OF THE DAY.

BUT THE REALITIES THAT WE ARE STARTING TO FACE NOW WITH POTENTIAL CLIMATE CHANGE, I WOULD SAY, INCREASED FIRE SEASONS, MORE COMPLEX, LONGER DURATION, WE ARE REALLY STARTING TO SEE, I WOULD SAY, FIREFIGHTERS IN A CRISIS MODE.

THIS CRISIS MODE IS DUE TO ATTRITION.

WE HAVE LESS FIREFIGHTERS ON THE GROUND AT FEDERAL LEVELS BECAUSE THE PAY AND BENEFITS ARE NOT ADEQUATE.

FOLKS ARE ASKED TO BASICALLY HAVE THESE YEAR ROUND FIRE SEASONS WHERE WE ARE COMMITTED TO GO HELP ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

SO, I WOULD SAY WE ARE REALLY KIND OF APPROACHING A TRAIN WRECK IN A SERIOUS ISSUE WHERE FIREFIGHTERS ARE TIRED.

THEY ARE CHALLENGED MENTALLY AND PHYSICALLY AND IT IS REALLY STARTING TO ENTER A CRISIS MODE, I WOULD SAY.

Laura: SO RECENTLY I SAW AN AD FOR WILDLAND FIREFIGHTERS THAT SAID THE JOB PAYS $15 AN HOUR.

I UNDERSTAND THAT IS A LITTLE BIT OF A BUMP, A BIDEN ERA BUMP, BUT, ONE, IS THAT ENOUGH TO LIVE ON AND, TWO, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THESE ARE CONSIDERED SEASONAL JOBS.

Cornwell: THAT $15 AN HOUR IS ROUGHLY FOR ENTRY LEVEL JOBS WHICH AS YOU SAID JUST RECENTLY BUMPED UP.

BEFORE THAT IT WAS ANYWHERE FROM $13 TO $14 DEPENDING WHERE YOU ARE AT IN THE COUNTRY.

THESE ARE ALL TEMPORARY 1039 POSITIONS IS WHAT THEY ARE CONSIDERED.

WHICH HAVE ZERO BENEFITS EXCEPT FOR MEDICAL CARE AND MEDICAL CARE THEY HAVE TO PAY FOR IT GETS SUBSIDIZED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DURING THEIR EMPLOYMENT BUT AS SOON AS WINTER, THEY ARE LAID OFF AFTER SIX MONTHS, THEY HAVE TO PAY THE FULL PRICE.

NO RETIREMENT, NO OPPORTUNITY TO CONTRIBUTE TO ANY KIND OF 401 K. BASICALLY ZERO BENEFITS.

AND THIS IS A BULK OF OUR FEDERAL FIREFIGHTERS, THESE TEMPORARY EMPLOYEES.

THEY MAKE UP 3/4 OF OUR HOT SHOTS AND HELITAC AND SMOKE JUMPERS.

AS SOON AS THE SEASON IS OVER, THEY BASICALLY HAVE NO ABILITY TO ACCESS MENTAL HEALTHCARE BENEFITS, TO REACH OUT FOR ANY KIND OF LONG-TERM PHYSICAL ISSUES THEY ARE HAVING.

YOU KNOW, ONCE THEY ARE LAID OFF AND IF THEIR FIRE FAMILY IS NOT THERE TO SUPPORT THEM, THEY HAVE NO BENEFITS.

IT IS A TOUGH POSITION WE PUT THESE TEMPORARY EMPLOYEES IN AND MANY OF THEM LIVE IN THEIR CARS BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD THE HOUSING AROUND WHERE THEY WORK.

SO, BASES, YOU KNOW, IN THE MOUNTAINS, THESE MOUNTAIN TOWNS THAT HAVE EXPENSIVE PLACES TO LIVE, THAT DON'T HAVE CREW QUARTERS, BASICALLY THESE KIDS ARE LIVING IN THEIR CARS TO GO AND FIGHT WILDLAND FIRE ACROSS THE COUNTRY, WHICH IS -- IT IS HARD TO SAY AND HARD TO THINK ABOUT, BUT I HAVE BEEN THERE.

I DID 11 YEARS IN SEASONAL AND I LOOK BACK AND JUST KIND OF LIKE, UNBELIEVABLE.

Laura: YEAH.

KELLY MARTIN YOU WORKED AS A WILDLAND FIREFIGHTER FOR 35 YEARS FOR THE FOREST SERVICE AND BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT.

I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE LONG-TERM EMERGENCE IN EMERGENCY SITUATIONS WHICH IS DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE SEE SORT OF MUNICIPAL FIREFIGHTERS OR EVEN POLICE OFFICERS.

WILDLAND FIREFIGHTERS ARE DEALING WITH SOMETHING VERY DIFFERENT.

Martin: ABSOLUTELY, LAURA.

JUST FOR CLARIFICATION I SPENT HALF MY CAREER WITH THE FOREST SERVICE AND HALF WITH THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE.

AND I DIDN'T WORK FOR THE BLM BUT WORKED WITH THEM QUITE A BIT THROUGHOUT MY CAREER.

THE EMERSION WE ARE SEEING NOW IS WAY -- COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN WHEN I STARTED 35 YEARS AGO.

I MIGHT HAVE GAINED MAYBE 400 HOURS OF OVERTIME DURING A SUMMER SEASON AND NOW WE ARE SEEING PEOPLE REGULARLY WORKING 1000, 1500, AND I THINK I EVEN HEARD THERE IS PEOPLE OUT THERE ALMOST WORKING LIKE 2,000 HOURS OF OVERTIME A YEAR.

SO THIS CONSTANT EMERSION MODE IS REALLY HAVING A TREMENDOUS IMPACT ON PEOPLES MENTAL HEALTH AND WELLBEING TO SAY NOTHING OF THEIR PHYSICAL WELLBEING AS WELL, WHEN EXPOSED TO TREMENDOUS AMOUNTS OF SMOKE, LOTS OF RISKS AND DANGERS WITH TRAVELING ON REALLY ROUGH, RUGGED BACK COUNTRY ROADS, VEHICLE ACCIDENTS ARE ALWAYS AN ISSUE.

FALLING SNAGS, BURN-OVERS, SO THAT THE IDEA THAT INDIVIDUALS ARE NOW IN THIS ALMOST 24/7 YEAR AFTER YEAR, WE HAVE REALLY STARTED SEEING IT ACCELERATED IN 2020 AND NOW 2021, IT IS WITHOUT A DOUBT THAT IS HOW PEOPLE ARE LIVING THEIR LIVES.

WHEREAS IN A MUNICIPAL FIRE DEPARTMENT, A FIRE STATION MIGHT GET A CALL, THEY ARE FOUR MINUTES EN ROUTE TO EMERGENCY AND THEY HAVE THE EMERGENCY STABILIZED WITHIN ABOUT AN HOUR, HOUR-AND-A-HALF.

THAT IS SIMPLY JUST NOT THE CASE FOR WILDLAND FIREFIGHTERS.

WE ARE IN IT 24/7, WEEK AFTER WEEK, MONTH AFTER MONTH AND NOW WE ARE TALKING YEAR AFTER YEAR.

Megan: EARLIER THIS YEAR, FIREFIGHTER TIM HART WAS KILLED DUE TO INJURIES HE SUSTAINED ON A FIRE HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

AND AFTER HIS DEATH, I REMEMBER SEEING A GO FUND ME CAMPAIGN TO HELP HIS FAMILY DEALING WITH EXPENSES DUE TO HIS HOSPITALIZATION.

AND I JUST REMEMBER THINKING, HE WAS A FEDERAL EMPLOYEE, WORKING ON A FEDERAL FIRE.

WHAT KINDS OF -- HOW ARE FIREFIGHTERS TAKEN CARE OF WHEN THEY SUSTAIN INJURIES OR UNFORTUNATE ACCIDENTS LIKE THIS?

Cornwell: THAT IS THE REALITY OF THE SITUATION.

THERE IS AN ORGANIZATION STARTED ROUGHLY 20 YEARS AGO CALLED THE WILDLAND FIREFIGHTERS FOUNDATION AND REALLY THAT ORGANIZATION WAS THE CATALYST AND IT IS ALL CHARITY DONATIONS FROM BASICALLY WILDLAND FIREFIGHTERS SUPPORTING EACH OTHER.

SO I WOULD SAY RECENTLY LAND MANAGEMENT AGENCIES HAVE STARTED TO DO A BETTER JOB.

I WOULD GIVE CREDIT TO THAT BUT I WOULD SAY STARTING TO.

AND WE ARE SEEING WHERE THEY ARE NOT ABLE TO COVER, YOU KNOW -- THESE GO FUND ME AND THE WILDLAND FIREFIGHTER FOUNDATION COVER TIM'S FAMILY TO BE ABLE TO TRAVEL DOWN, BE ABLE TO COVER A MORTGAGE AND BILLS WHEN HE IS IN A TOUGH POSITION IN A HOSPITAL, ANY OF OUR FIREFIGHTERS, HELP THE FAMILY MAKE IT THROUGH.

BECAUSE THESE FAMILIES THAT WE HAVE BASICALLY DEPEND ON US BEING FIREFIGHTERS AND US GOING AND WORKING AND BEING AWAY FROM HOME FOR SIX MONTHS OUT OF THE YEAR, SO, AS SOON AS THAT MONEY IS GONE, THERE IS NO BASE.

THERE IS NO HELP FOR THE FAMILY.

SO LONG-TERM SORT OF MEDICAL CARE, I KNOW, THE WILDLAND FIREFIGHTER FOUNDATION HAS BOUGHT WHEELCHAIRS, HELPED REHAB, AND THE REALITY OF WHY WE NEED THIS IS OWCP PROGRAM, OFFICE OF WORKMEN'S COMP IS BROKEN.

WE HAVE FIREFIGHTERS STRUGGLING THAT GET INJURED ON THE JOB, STRUGGLING YEAR AFTER YEAR TO BASICALLY JUST SURVIVE THESE CATASTROPHIC INCIDENTS THEY HAVE WITH MOUNTAINS OF PAPERWORK, VERY LITTLE HELP FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND BASICALLY IT IS EASIER TO GET OUTSIDE DONATIONS TO MAKE IT THROUGH.

Laura: WOW.

JONATHAN, YOU WERE A WILDLAND FIREFIGHTER FOR OVER A DECADE.

I AM WONDERING IF YOU COULD TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT SOME OF THE PRIVATE STRUGGLES THAT WILDLAND FIREFIGHTERS ARE GOING THROUGH THAT, YOU KNOW, WE IN THE PUBLIC JUST HAVE NO IDEA THESE THINGS ARE HAPPENING.

Golden: YEAH, THANKS AGAIN FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE HERE.

SOME OF THE PRIVATE STRUGGLES THAT I WENT THROUGH AND I KNOW MY FRIENDS HAVE GONE THROUGH ARE JUST THE ISOLATION THAT YOU FEEL AND THE SEPARATION YOU HAVE FROM YOUR FRIENDS, FROM FAMILIES BACK HOME.

THE EVENTS THAT YOU MISS OUT ON, BIRTHDAYS, WEDDINGS, GRADUATIONS.

I EVEN KNOW OF HUSBANDS AND PARTNERS WHERE I WAS ON FIRE WITH WHILE THEIR WIFE DELIVERED THEIR CHILDREN.

YOU MISS OUT ON THESE SIGNIFICANT MOMENTS AND, YOU KNOW, WHEN IT COMES TIME TO LAY DOWN AT NIGHT AND TRY TO GET SOME SLEEP, YOU KNOW, YOU THINK ABOUT THESE THINGS.

IT REALLY BEGINS TO WEIGH ON YOU.

WHAT AM I MISSING AND WHAT AM I DOING HERE.

WHEN I STARTED TO HAVE A FAMILY WITH MY WIFE IT JUST BECAME NO LONGER SUSTAINABLE FOR US OR REALISTIC FOR US TO POTENTIALLY MOVE OUR WHOLE FAMILY ACROSS THE COUNTRY IN ORDER FOR ME TO CHASE A PROMOTIONAL OPPORTUNITY, TO EFFECTIVELY ACTUALLY HAVE MORE RESPONSIBILITY AND BE GONE A LOT MORE.

WHEN THAT GOES ON IT BECOMES A REAL STRUGGLE AND SOMETIMES WE ARE ABLE TO SUCCESSFULLY BURY OR SUPPRESS THOSE MEMORIES, BUT IT COMES OUT IN THE WINTERTIME.

PEOPLE TURN TO ALCOHOL OR DRUGS AND WE HAVE LOST PARTNERS AND FRIENDS TO SUICIDE FROM IT ALL.

SO, IT IS A REAL PROBLEM WITHIN THE COMMUNITY.

FRANKLY, IT ISN'T TALKED ABOUT ENOUGH AND/OR ADDRESSED AS BEST AS IT COULD BE.

Laura: I THINK THE PUBLIC, WE VERY MUCH HAVE A PERCEPTION OF WILDLAND FIREFIGHTERS WHEN OUR COMMUNITIES ARE AT RISK, PEOPLE GO OUT THERE WITH SIGNS AND WANT TO BAKE COOKIES AND DROP OFF WATER AND THEY ARE SO GRATEFUL WHEN YOU ALL ARRIVE.

BUT IT REALLY FEELS TO ME THAT THERE IS THIS DISCONNECT BETWEEN WHAT WE THE PUBLIC THINK YOU ALL ARE GOING THROUGH AND WHAT IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING.

I AM CURIOUS HOW ARE YOU SUPPORTED BY THESE FEDERAL AGENCIES THAT WE ALL PAY TAXES TO AND ARE IMAGINING THAT YOU'RE BEING SUPPORTED.

IS THERE SUPPORT FOR THINGS LIKE DEPRESSION OR PTSD OR ANXIETY OR HELPING ADDRESS THIS WORK/LIFE BALANCE THAT SEEMS TO BE A PROBLEM?

Cornwell: I WOULD SAY THOSE ARE CATCH WORDS THAT DIFFERENT AGENCY LEADERSHIP HAVE THROWN OUT THERE, WORK LIFE BALANCE BUT REALITY, LAURA, IS THAT THESE PROGRAMS ARE ANEMIC AT BEST.

I WOULD BE REMISS TO SAY THERE IS NO HELP.

WE DO HAVE HELP NETWORKS BUT I MYSELF HAVE TRIED TO LOOK INTO THEM, LIKE, FOR ME AS A FIRST RESPONDER, TO SEEK HELP ON A PARTICULAR KIND OF ISSUE, LIKE THERE IS NO COUNSELORS IN MY AREA THAT SPECIALIZE IN THAT THAT ARE WITHIN THAT PROGRAM.

THAT IS THE THING A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE FACED WITH.

IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO FIND MENTAL HEALTH HELP ON THERE.

IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO GO THROUGH THE PROGRAM.

YOU ONLY GET FIVE TO SEVEN VISITS AND THEN IT IS ON YOU.

A WEAK SUPPORT NETWORK AND THEN LIKE I WAS SAYING WITH THE EMPLOYEES, AS SOON AS THEY ARE LAID OFF THEY BASICALLY HAVE NO ACCESS TO THIS.

WHEN YOU'RE IN THE TRANSITION TIME LIKE JOHNNY IS TALKING ABOUT END OF THE SEASON, YOU GO AWAY FROM YOUR FIRE FAMILY, NOW YOU TURN TO ALCOHOL AND DRUGS TO HIT THOSE VOIDS.

YOU ARE VERY ANGRY WITH THE WORLD, I WOULD SAY.

IT IS REALLY KIND OF WHEN I SEE THESE WAR MOVIES, PEOPLE COMING BACK FROM VIETNAM OR WAR, AND TRYING TO LIKE REINTEGRATE INTO SOCIETY, THAT IS REALLY WHAT PEOPLE GO THROUGH ON A YEARLY CYCLICAL BASIS OF BEING TOTALLY EMERSED IN A WAR TYPE SETTING AWAY FROM ALL YOUR SUPPORT NETWORK AND THEN YOU COME BACK TO TRY TO INTEGRATE.

AND SO I WOULD SAY IT IS VERY POOR AND I THINK IT IS A KNOWN ISSUE.

FOLKS ARE WORKING ON IT BUT AT A VERY SLOW RATE TO REALLY MAKE A SIGNIFICANT CHANGE, I WOULD SAY.

WE NEED MORE MONEY.

WE NEED BETTER PROGRAMS.

WE NEED MORE SUPPORT.

Laura: SPEAKING OF CHANGE.

I WOULD LIKE TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE.

START WITH YOU, KELLY.

FIRES, 35 YEARS AGO, COMPARED WITH THE FIRES WE ARE SEEING NOW, HOW HAS CLIMATE CHANGE AFFECTED THE FIRE SEASON AND WILDLAND FIREFIGHTERS WHO HAVE TO DEAL WITH FIRE SEASONS?

Martin: I THINK ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT THAT WE ARE WORKING IN NOW AND HOW DIFFERENT THAT WAS WHEN I FIRST STARTED.

SO, CLIMATE CHANGE IS CERTAINLY A CONTRIBUTING FACTOR ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU LOOK AT SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER TEMPERATURES, LONGER FIRE SEASONS, WE CAN ACTUALLY MEASURE THAT.

WE KNOW THAT IS ACTUALLY OCCURRING.

THE OTHER THING THAT IS OCCURRING IS THIS UNNATURAL FUEL BUILDUP.

IF YOU CAN IMAGINE FROM ONE MOMENT, WESTERN U.S. WAS VERY VOID OF PEOPLE ABOUT 150 YEARS AGO.

QUOTE UNQUOTE, THE GOOD FIRE OR THE FRIENDLY FIRE WAS ALLOWED TO PLAY ITS NATURAL ROLE ON THE LANDSCAPE FOR MILLENNIA AND HERE WE COME AND WE OCCUPY THE WEST AT TREMENDOUS NUMBERS.

CALIFORNIA USED TO HAVE 1.5 MILLION PEOPLE IN 1900 AND NOW THEY ARE UP TO 40 MILLION.

WE ARE SEEING THIS PLAY OUT WHERE NOT ONLY IS CLIMATE CHANGE ADDING TO THESE LARGE MEGA FIRES, BUT WE ARE ALSO SEEING UNNATURAL FUEL BUILDUP BECAUSE OF THE SUPPRESSION OF WILDFIRES ON THE LANDSCAPE.

WHICH IS INCREASING THE FUEL LOADING AND VEGETATION AND ALSO INCREASING INSECT DISEASE AND DROUGHT SUSCEPTIBILITY TO TREES ON THE LANDSCAPE AND ADDING TO THE POPULATION EXPLOSION.

IT IS REALLY PUTTING FIREFIGHTERS IN A REALLY UNTENABLE SITUATION ESPECIALLY THESE LAST 24 MONTHS.

THIS REALLY SHOULD PORTEND TO ALL OF US WHAT THE YEARS ARE GOING TO LOOK LIKE IN THE YEARS TO COME.

WE CANNOT KEEP OPERATING UNDER THE SAME ANTIQUATED SYSTEM THAT WE DEVELOPED 50 YEARS AGO.

Laura: THANK YOU SO MUCH, ALL THREE OF YOU, FOR THIS CONVERSATION.

I HAVE LEARNED SO MUCH.

I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND YOUR ENERGY ON THIS TOPIC.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR HAVING US, LAURA.

IT IS AN IMPORTANT ISSUE.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO NEW MEXICO AND IMPORTANT TO THE UNITED STATES AND I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND INTEREST.

Gene: NEW MEXICO HAS TRIED ALL SORTS OF REMEDIES TO ITS LOW PERFORMANCE BY STUDENTS IN SCHOOLS.

IT IS A PROBLEM THE STATE ISN'T DONE TRYING TO SOLVE AND TWO PARTS OF THE BIG PUSH IN THE LAST DECADES ARE MORE EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION, AS YOU KNOW, AND MORE EDUCATIONAL PROFESSIONALS IN THE CLASSROOM TO HELP STUDENTS.

THE IDEA BEHIND A PAIR OF RECENT ANNOUNCEMENTS IS TO MAKE EDUCATIONAL JOBS MORE ATTRACTIVE.

START WITH EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION.

THE STATE WANTS TO PUT QUALIFIED EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATORS ON THE SAME PAY SCALE AS TEACHERS.

THE MONEY THE STATE IS PUTTING FORWARD TO THE PROGRAM MIGHT BE ENOUGH FOR 200 EARNERS.

SENATOR FELDMAN, DOES THIS SEEM LIKE A FULLY FORMED POLICY OR MORE TRIAL EFFORT OR KIND OF LOOKING DOWN AT THE FUTURE AT THE HORIZON AND A PRETTY GOOD IDEA.

WHERE DO YOU FALL ON THIS?

Dede: I DON'T KNOW WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED BUT FOR THE FEDERAL FUND.

IT IS A GOOD PILOT PROGRAM AND WE HAVE KNOWN FOR MANY YEARS THAT THE SALARIES FOR EARLY CHILDHOOD FOLKS AND EVERY ACADEMIC STUDY SHOWS THAT THESE ARE THE FORMATIVE YEARS, THIS IS GOING TO DETERMINE WHETHER KIDS KNOW HOW TO READ BY THIRD GRADE.

EVERY STUDY SHOWS THAT AND YET WE PAY EARLY CHILDHOOD WORKERS $10 AN HOUR, $11 AN HOUR.

NO BENEFITS.

PART-TIME WORK.

YOU KNOW.

IT HAS BEEN A DISGRACE.

REALLY BEEN A DISGRACE AND THE LEGISLATURE HAS BEEN TRYING TO FOCUS ON THIS FOR THE PAST DECADE, REALLY.

AND THIS YEAR WE ARE GOING TO GET AN OPPORTUNITY TO VOTE ON WHETHER TO SPEND MORE MONEY FROM THE PERMANENT FUND FOR THAT PURPOSE.

BUT, YOU KNOW, IT IS A TOUGH ROAD TO HOE.

PEOPLE DON'T SEEM TO WANT TO PUT IN THIS MONEY.

AND THIS TIME INTO SUPPORTING EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION.

Gene: LET ME INTERRUPT FOR A QUICK SECOND BEFORE I GET TO KRISTELLE WITH ANOTHER QUESTION.

ARE WE PAST THE PARTISANSHIP OF EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION?

BOTH DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS ARE ON BOARD WITH THIS.

Dede: THERE IS THE QUESTION OF WHETHER EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION SHOULD BE DONE BY THE PRIVATE SECTOR OR WHETHER IT SHOULD BE AN ADJUNCT OF THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

THERE YOU GET A LITTLE BIT OF PARTISAN DIVIDE IN THERE.

Gene: GOT YOU.

KRISTELLE, HAVE WE SEEN RESULTS FROM WHAT HAS BEEN INVESTED IN EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION SINCE THE MID 2000'S, ANYTHING TANGIBLE WE CAN POINT OUT AND SAY THIS IS THE WAY WE HAVE TO GO?

Kristelle: SO, IF YOU WERE TO USE MY SON AS A PERFECT EXAMPLE, HAS THERE BEEN ANY ADVANCES AS HE WAS BORN IN 2008 AND WHERE HE IS NOW, EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION, CHALLENGES ARE STILL THE SAME.

IT HAS BEEN A VERY DIFFICULT PIECE FOR ALL OF US TO TACKLE.

I REMEMBER JOINING KIWANIS CLUBS OF ALBUQUERQUE, EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION IS SUCH A PROPONENT PART BUT IT COMES BACK TO AFFORDABILITY, COMES BACK TO THE QUALITY OF THE CURRICULUM, QUALITY OF TEACHERS, ET CETERA.

TO FALL BACK ON THE CONVERSATION ABOUT THE MINIMUM WAGE INCREASE, EVEN THOUGH I AM A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER AND I KNOW HOW DIFFICULT MINIMUM WAGE INCREASES CAN BE, ANYTHING THAT IS STATE GOVERNMENT RELATED CAN BE VERY DIFFICULT TO INCREASE MINIMUM WAGE BECAUSE, THEN, YES, I UNDERSTAND THAT OLE AND STORY FROM NEW MEXICO POLITICAL REPORT, THEY ARE SAYING OLE IS PUSHING FOR 400 BILLION DOLLARS FOR CHILD CARE PROGRAMS IN FEDERAL INFRASTRUCTURE BUILD-OUT WILL HELP CHILDCARE WORKERS EARN AT LEAST $15 AN HOUR.

THERE ARE SOME MENTAL HEALTH THERAPISTS THAT DON'T EVEN RECEIVE $15 AN HOUR AND SO THE CONVERSATION ABOUT FEDERALLY FUNDED IS INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT AND THEN YOU HAVE TO TALK ABOUT, IF IT EVEN GOES BACK TO PRIVATIZATION FOR EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION, THE BUSINESS COSTS START TO GO UP THEN IT IS PASSED UP TO THE INDIVIDUAL PARENT OR THE FAMILIES THEMSELVES AND THEY CAN'T AFFORD IT TO BEGIN WITH.

WE HAVE TO FIND A BETTER WAY FOR PUBLIC-PRIVATE PARTNERSHIPS IN ORDER TO INCREASE EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION AND MOST IMPORTANTLY GO BACK TO -- THIS GOES BACK TO WHAT REPRESENTATIVE, THE NEW REPRESENTATIVE GOES BACK TO, IF YOU ARE TRYING TO SOLVE A POLICY ISSUE WHEN IT COMES TO EDUCATION, IT HAS GOT TO BE RELATED BACK TO THE COMMUNITY.

WHAT CAN WE DO FOR OUR COMMUNITIES TO HELP THEM BE A PART OF THE CULTURE CHANGE OF EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION WHILE GOING BACK TO THE TEACHERS.

TEACHERS NEED TO BE A PART OF THE CONVERSATION WHICH THEY ARE OFTEN EXCLUDED FROM, PERIOD.

Gene: GOOD POINT.

THE OTHER INVESTMENT, DAN MCKAY, IS IN TEACHING ASSISTANTS.

NOTORIOUSLY HARD JOBS TO FILL.

THEY PAY VERY LITTLE SO THE PLAN IS TO TAKE 37 MILLION TO OFFER PAY FOR 500 ASSISTANTS THIS YEAR.

THEN GIVE THEM UP TO 4,000 A YEAR TO START A DEGREE PROGRAM FOR THEMSELVES.

IT IS CALLED NEW MEXICO TEACHER FELLOWS PROGRAM, TO BE OFFICIAL ABOUT IT.

DOES THIS MAKE SENSE TO YOU IN YOUR GUT?

Dan: WELL, I THINK IT IS A STRATEGY THAT THE STATE IS GOING TO TRY.

I THINK POLICYMAKERS HAVE TRIED SOMETHING SIMILAR WITH POLICE OFFICERS, SERVICE AIDES, TRYING TO USE THAT AS A PIPELINE TO GET INTO LAW ENFORCEMENT CAREERS.

I THINK NATURALLY, YOU KNOW, IT DOES MAKE SOME SENSE THAT YOU WOULD START WITH SOMEONE, A TEACHING ASSISTANT WHO IS -- OR EDUCATION ASSISTANT WHO IS ALREADY INTERESTED IN EDUCATION, ALREADY WORKING WITH STUDENTS, ALREADY HAS SOME IDEA OF CLASSROOM DYNAMICS.

I THINK THAT CERTAINLY MAKES SENSE THAT THOSE ARE PEOPLE YOU MIGHT TARGET TO INCREASE, TO ADDRESS OUR TEACHER SHORTAGES.

SO, WE'LL SEE.

I MEAN, THIS IS KIND OF A RECURRING THEME, NEW MEXICO IS STRUGGLING WITH SHORTAGES IN CERTAIN PROFESSIONS, DOCTORS, EDUCATORS, POLICE OFFICERS, AND THIS A TOOL TO SEE IF WE CAN ADDRESS THE TEACHER SHORTAGE.

GENE: ONE OF THE IMPORTANT THINGS TO NOTE HERE IS THE STATE HOPES THAT DISTRICTS WHO GET THESE FELLOWS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT AS PART OF THE PROGRAM WILL NOT JUST TAKE A FREE TEACHERS ASSISTANT BUT USE SOME OF THEIR OWN MONEY THE STATE GIVES THEM TO BOOST PAY.

SEEMS TO ME THAT IS ALMOST MUCH DO FOR THIS THING TO WORK AS DAN REPRESENTED.

WE HAVE A HISTORY OF IF SOMETHING IS GOING TO GET BETTER YOU HAVE TO PUT BETTER PAY ON THE TABLE.

ARE WE AT THE POINT WE ALL FUNDAMENTALLY UNDERSTAND THAT NOW?

Dede: AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE COMMUNITY INVOLVEMENT, AS KRISTELLE SAID.

I REALLY, YOU KNOW, I AGREE WITH THAT AND I THINK ALSO IF YOU GO TO ANY SCHOOL, TEACHING ASSISTANTS ARE ALREADY AN IMPORTANT PART OF THAT SCHOOL COMMUNITY.

AND THEY ARE DOING A LOT.

WE HEAR FROM THEM EVERY YEAR ASKING FOR MORE, ASKING FOR MORE MONEY BUT IF YOU GO TO ANY SCHOOL, IF YOU GO TO ANY SCHOOL, YOU WILL ENCOUNTER AND SEE TEACHERS ASSISTANTS AND SEE WHAT THEY ARE DOING WITH THE KIDS AND IT IS VERY IMPORTANT.

SOMETIMES THEY ARE THE ONES THAT THE KIDS RELATE TO THE MOST.

Gene: UH-HUH.

THERE IS A CONSISTENCY THERE WITH THE ASSISTANTS KNOWING A FEW TEACHERS.

WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE CONSISTENCY, IT IS A PROBLEM.

KRISTELLE, NEW MEXICO DIDN'T LOSE AS MANY TEACHERS TO RETIREMENT LAST YEAR AS WAS EXPECTED FROM THE PANDEMIC BUT THE STATE SAYS DISTRICTS WERE SHORT SOME 600 TEACHERS LAST YEAR.

SEEMS CLEAR TEACHING HAS LOST ITS ATTRACTION AS A SOLID JOB WITH GOOD SECURITY MAYBE.

MAYBE A LITTLE TIME OFF, ALL THOSE THINGS THAT USED TO BE -- ARE THESE THE PROGRAMS THAT MAKE A DIFFERENCE OR IS THERE SOMETHING UNDESIRABLE ABOUT A CAREER IN THE CLASSROOM ANYMORE?

Kristelle: IF YOU'RE ASKING ME ABOUT INCENTIVES IN THE WORKPLACE TO KEEP YOUR EMPLOYEES THERE, THAT IS A HARD BATTLE YOU'RE GOING TO FIGHT WITH ME.

BUT I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT TEACHERS ALSO HAD A PROBLEM WITH IS SAFETY AND SECURITY IN THE CLASSROOMS BECAUSE OF COVID-19.

I MEAN, WE DON'T EVEN HAVE TO TACKLE THAT CONVERSATION BECAUSE I THINK THAT IS THE NEXT SEGMENT, RIGHT.

TEACHERS, OF COURSE, IF YOU ASK A TEACHER LIKE WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THEY DEAL WITH ON A DAILY BASIS.

IT MIGHT BE THE EXTERNAL FACTORS OF WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENS IN THE CLASSROOMS.

THAT KEEPS THEM MOTIVATED TO STAY OR ENCOURAGES THEM TO GET OUT OF THE CLASSROOM.

FOR EXAMPLE, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HOW DO WE IMPROVE EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION.

Gene: EVERYONE HAS A LINE FINANCIALLY.

YOU CAN PUT UP WITH A LOT WHEN YOU'RE GETTING PAID.

Kristelle: MOST DEFINITELY BUT REMEMBER PAY DOESN'T MATTER IF THE CHILD STILL DOESN'T GO TO THE CLASSROOM.

YOU KNOW.

A LOT OF DISTRICTS ARE LOSING MONEY BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT KIDS ARE SIMPLY NOT RETURNING TO SCHOOL AND TRUANCY RATES AND GRADUATION RATES ARE SUFFERING.

A LOT OF THOSE PROBLEMATIC ISSUES, I HAVE ALWAYS SAID THIS ABOUT EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION, IS THAT A LOT OF THE ISSUES THAT HAPPEN IN THE CLASSROOM ACTUALLY HAPPEN AT HOME AND IF WE TACKLE THE CONVERSATION OF TEACHER SHORTAGES, EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION, ET CETERA, WE HAVE TO TACKLE THE CHILD AT HOME AND ENCOURAGE A POSITIVE ENVIRONMENT IN TERMS OF TEACHING KIDS IN SCHOOL.

Gene: GOOD POINT TO FINISH.

HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE BUT THE OPINION PANEL HAS ONE MORE TURN THIS WEEK.

WE'LL BE BACK TO TALK ABOUT THE LATEST COVID NEWS.

Kristelle: KNOCK ON WOOD WE HAVEN'T HAD AN OUTBREAK HERE IN THE OFFICE AT SIARZA BUT IT IS STILL NERVE RACKING TO HAVE AND IT ALSO BECOMES A MATTER OF HOW DO WE MAKE SURE ON ONE HAND WE ARE ASKING THEM POLITELY AND SOMEONE DOESN'T WANT TO GET VACCINATED AND ON THE OTHER HAND WE HAVE GOT EMPLOYEES THAT FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE WITH OTHER INDIVIDUALS AND YOU CAN'T TALK ABOUT IT AS AN ORGANIZATION.

Gene: RECREATIONAL CANNABIS NOW LEGAL IN NEW MEXICO BUT THERE IS STILL A LOT THAT NEEDS TO BE FIGURED OUT.

THAT IS WHERE THE CANNABIS REGULATORY ADVISORY PANEL COMES IN.

THE GROUP OF PHYSICIANS, COMMUNITY MEMBERS AND INDUSTRY EXPERTS ADVISES THE CANNABIS CONTROL BOARD.

IT IS WHERE A LOT OF ACTION IS.

GROWING FORWARD POD CAST TEAM TALKED WITH THREE KEY MEMBERS OF THE PANEL.

YOU CAN CATCH THE FULL EPISODE INCLUDING A GOOD LOOK AT POTENTIAL ISSUES WITH LAW ON SOVEREIGN INDIGENOUS NATIONS HERE IN NEW MEXICO WHEREVER YOU GET YOUR POD CAST, BUT WE WANTED TO BRING YOU PART OF THAT CONVERSATION ON THIS WEEK'S SHOW.

Megan: EMILY, I WANTED TO ASK YOU A PART OF THE CANNABIS REGULATION ACT THAT BECAME LAW EARLIER THIS YEAR ALSO REQUIRES AN EQUITY PLAN TO ENSURE ADEQUATE REPRESENTATION IN THE UPCOMING CANNABIS INDUSTRY.

YOU WERE ALSO PRETTY INVOLVED IN THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT WHY REPRESENTATION IS IMPORTANT IN THE INITIAL STEPS THE BOARD IS TAKING TOWARDS THAT GOAL?

Kaltenbach: WE ARE REALLY EXCITED THAT THERE IS LANGUAGE IN THE STATUTE THAT TALKS ABOUT EQUITY.

WHAT WE MEAN BY SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC EQUITY IS THAT WE KNOW THAT THE WAR ON DRUGS, PROHIBITION, THE HARM FELL HEAVILY ON COMMUNITIES OF COLOR, LOW INCOME COMMUNITIES IN NEW MEXICO, TRIBAL COMMUNITIES, AS WELL, AND SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CREATE AN INDUSTRY, A NEW INDUSTRY, THAT ALLOWS COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE BEEN MOST HARMED TO BE ABLE TO PARTICIPATE.

AND SO, PART OF THE STATUTE WAS TO -- WHAT WE ARE CHARGED AS AN ADVISORY BOARD TO PROVIDE RECOMMENDATIONS BACK TO CCD ON POLICIES AND PROCEDURES TO PROMOTE AND ENSURE THAT THERE IS PARTICIPATION IN THE NEW INDUSTRY BY NEW MEXICO COMMUNITIES.

I THINK WE ARE THE ONLY STATE IN THE NATION THAT ACTUALLY NAMED SOME SPECIFIC COMMUNITIES, TRIBAL COMMUNITIES, ACEQUIA COMMUNITIES, LAND GRANT COMMUNITIES AND OTHER HISTORIC COMMUNITIES.

AND, SO, WE REALLY STAND OUT IN, I THINK, PUSHING THE BAR ON EQUITY AND MAKING SURE THAT OUR SYSTEM IS AS EQUITABLE AS POSSIBLE.

THE STATUTE DOES INCLUDE SOME OTHER EQUITY PROVISIONS, FOR EXAMPLE, THE MICRO BUSINESSES.

HOWEVER, WE KNOW THAT COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE BEEN MOST HARMED, PEOPLE FORMALLY INCARCERATED, PEOPLE WITH FELONY ON THEIR RECORD, HAVE A HARDER TIME GETTING INTO THE MARKET.

THERE IS SO MANY BARRIERS.

ACCESS TO CAPITAL, LEGAL BARRIERS, DISTRUST IN GOVERNMENT.

SO WE ARE HOPING THE PLAN WE COME UP WITH WILL ACTUALLY DEFINE A SOCIAL EQUITY APPLICANT AND WE WILL MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS HOW TO SUPPORT THOSE EQUITY APPLICANTS FROM TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS TO RECOMMENDING THAT THE LEGISLATURE APPROPRIATE DOLLARS ON THINGS LIKE REVOLVING LOAN FUNDS FOR EQUITY APPLICANTS.

AND SO IN MY OPINION THE MOST CRITICAL THING THAT THIS ADVISORY BOARD WILL BE DOING IS REALLY MAKING SURE THAT OUR COMMUNITIES ARE REPRESENTED IN THIS NEW INDUSTRY.

Megan: ARE YOU LOOKING TO OTHER PROGRAMS FOR MODELS FOR THAT?

YOU KNOW, LIKE FDA AND DISADVANTAGED BUSINESSES, THOSE KINDS OF THINGS?

Kaltenbach: ABSOLUTELY, I THINK THOSE WILL BECOME MODELS AND WE ARE LOOKING AT OTHER STATES BECAUSE NOT ONLY HAVE STATES DONE THIS BUT ALSO LOCAL GOVERNMENT.

I'LL JUST SHOUT OUT THAT THE CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE HAS SET UP AN EQUITY COMMITTEE TO ADDRESS CANNABIS AT A LOCAL LEVEL AND THAT COMMITTEE IS MADE UP OF COMMUNITY MEMBERS THAT HAVE BEEN PRIMARILY MOSTLY IMPACTED BY PROHIBITION.

Jenison: I JUST WANTED TO MENTION THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I HAVE DONE IN MY LIFE IS THAT I HAVE BEEN A SMALL SCALE COMMERCIAL FARMER AS WELL, AND THERE IS CERTAINLY A LOT OF ENTHUSIASM IN THE SMALL FARMER COMMUNITY IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO AND I IMAGINE THROUGHOUT THE STATE IN BEING ABLE TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS NEW MARKET, BUT THAT THEY FEEL, FOR ALL THE REASONS THAT EMILY MENTIONED, POTENTIALLY THAT THEY MAY BE OVERWHELMED BY THE LARGER PRODUCERS AND MANUFACTURERS.

SO I THINK THE EMPHASIS ON EQUITY IS GOOD AND HOPEFULLY WILL RESULT IN A LOT OF PEOPLE BEING ABLE TO BENEFIT RATHER THAN JUST A FEW.

Andy: EMILY, TO FOLLOW-UP ON THE EQUITY PORTION, CANNABIS CONTROL DIVISION DID ADD SPECIFICITY ON THE EQUITY ISSUE THROUGH RULES AND REGULATIONS BUT I HAVE ALSO SORT OF HEARD THIS THING MOSTLY ONLINE PEOPLE TALKING TO ME THAT IT SEEMS TO ME THERE IS THIS MISUNDERSTANDING THAT INSTEAD OF ENCOURAGING CERTAIN GROUPS TO APPLY, THERE IS SOME SORT OF QUOTA.

IS YOUR READING OF THAT THE SAME, NOT IT IS NOT THAT THEY HAVE TO APPROVE SO MANY PEOPLE FROM THAT GROUP, BUT IT IS ENCOURAGEMENT TO GET THOSE GROUPS TO APPLY?

DO I HAVE THAT RIGHT?

Kaltenbach: YEAH.

WHAT IS DIFFERENT FROM NEW MEXICO LOOKING AT OTHER STATES EQUITY PROGRAMS IS OTHER STATES HAD A CAP ON LICENSING, RIGHT?

SO, IF YOU LOOK AT, LET'S SAY, NEW YORK'S STATUTE, THEY SET A LIMIT, A THRESHOLD, OF HOW MANY EQUITY APPLICANTS -- HOW MANY LICENSES HAVE TO GO TO EQUITY APPLICANTS.

FOR EXAMPLE, 50%.

SO THAT IS -- THEY SET THAT AS STATUTE.

NEW MEXICO IS DIFFERENT IN THAT WE HAVE NO CAP ON LICENSES AND IN FACT THAT MIGHT BENEFIT US FROM AN EQUITY PERSPECTIVE IN THE LONG RUN.

ANYONE CAN APPLY.

SO WHAT THE RULES AND REGS THAT YOU REFERENCE IN THESE, THERE IS JUST A GOAL THAT IS SET THERE.

IT IS SAYING, OF THE APPLICATIONS THAT CCD GETS, THE GOAL IS AT LEAST 50% ARE EQUITY APPLICANTS.

NOW, THERE ARE MANY OTHER STEPS TO SUPPORT THOSE EQUITY APPLICANTS, SO, THERE WILL BE PROGRAMS AND PROCEDURES SET UP TO SUPPORT IN HOW WE DEFINE EQUITY APPLICANT.

OUR ADVISORY BOARD IS CHARGED WITH MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS ON WHAT CRITERIA WILL BE FOR EQUITY APPLICANTS.

SO, IT IS NOT A QUOTA.

IT IS REALLY A GOAL THAT IS SET TO SAY, WE HOPE THAT AT LEAST 50% ARE EQUITY APPLICANTS.

Gene: MAYBE WE ALL SAW THIS COMING BUT STILL IS NOT GREAT NEWS TO HEAR GOVERNOR'S INDOOR MASK MANDATE HAS AT LEAST ANOTHER MONTH TO GO.

THAT AS THE DELTA VARIANT CONTINUES ITS MARCH THROUGH NEW MEXICO AND THE NATION.

OVER THE PAST FEW DAYS, WE HAVE SEEN CASE COUNTS LEVEL OFF A LITTLE BUT THEY ARE STILL HIGH AS ARE HOSPITALIZATIONS.

NOW, ONE NEW THING IS THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION'S REQUEST TO HAVE OSHA FORCE BUSINESSES WITH MORE THAN 100 EMPLOYEES TO REQUIRE VACCINATIONS.

DAN MCKAY, DOES IT FEEL TO YOU AS THOUGH ANYTHING CHANGED WITH RESPECT TO WHO IS GOING TO BE ABIDING BY THESE MANDATES, MASKS OR VACCINES?

THE SAME PEOPLE ABIDING, THE SAME PEOPLE NOT ABIDING.

HAVE WE BROUGHT THIS CLOSER TOGETHER?

HOW DOES THIS WORK?

Dan: THERE IS EVIDENCE THAT VACCINATION RATES HAVE PICKED UP A LITTLE BIT, AT LEAST THEY DID IN AUGUST.

Gene: DUE TO MANDATES?

Dan: YES AND INCENTIVES.

THERE WAS $100 INCENTIVE SO I THINK THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO ARE GENUINELY RELUCTANT TO GET VACCINATED BUT STILL OPEN MINDED AND THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO COME UP WITH -- WHO ARE GOING TO COMPLY WHEN THEIR JOB IS ON THE LINE.

SO, I DO THINK THAT THE OPPOSITION IS NOT ENTIRELY HARDENED, ALTHOUGH, THERE IS A CERTAINLY A VOCAL ELEMENT.

THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE STILL GETTING VACCINATED, YOU KNOW, FOR THE FIRST TIME THIS FAR INTO THE PANDEMIC.

Gene: INTERESTING STATS HERE.

UNVACCINATED PEOPLE, 40 TIMES MORE LIKELY TO DIE OF COVID.

9 OUT OF 10 COVID HOSPITALIZATIONS ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE UNVACCINATED.

A LOT OF FOLKS KNOW THIS BUT A LOT DON'T.

RECENT STUDY SHOWS ALMOST EIGHT BILLION DOLLAR COST TO TREAT UNVACCINATED COVID INFECTIONS.

THAT IS A PHENOMENAL NUMBER, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT.

SIX BILLION DOLLARS.

NOT TO MENTION LOSS TO THE ECONOMY.

I GUESS, I SAY AGAIN, FOR FOLKS THAT DON'T WANT TO ABIDE, SHOULD THERE BE A SOCIETAL COST TO THEM?

SHOULD SOCIETY MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT ON THEM TO GO ANYWHERE, TO DO ANYTHING.

IS THAT THE NEXT STEP HERE?

Dede: IT IS HARD TO SEE WHAT THE NEXT STEP IS.

THIS SEEMS PRETTY DRASTIC AS IT IS.

BUT I DO THINK, YES, THAT WE'LL SEE IF THIS WORKS.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, A $14,000 FINE FOR A BUSINESS WHO DOES NOT REQUIRE VACCINATIONS TO PROTECT ITS OWN EMPLOYEES OR TESTING IS PRETTY HEFTY.

BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE NEEDS TO BE -- THIS IS A PANDEMIC OF THE UNVACCINATED.

AND WE ARE ALL PAYING THE PRICE FOR THEM.

IN FACT, I READ A STORY RECENTLY ABOUT A NURSE WHO WORKED IN AN ICU WHO IS QUITTING BECAUSE SHE HAS WORKED DAY IN AND DAY OUT WITH PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD COVID AT GREAT PHYSICAL AND MENTAL COST TO HER.

AND NOW SHE IS WORKING WITH PEOPLE WHO HAVE THE CHOICE OF WHETHER TO GET VACCINATED OR NOT AND THEY CHOOSE NOT TO.

SHE IS SADDLED WITH TAKING CARE OF THEM AND PUTTING THEM ON A VENTILATOR, WITH CONVEYING THEIR LAST WISHES TO THEIR FAMILIES.

YOU KNOW, IT IS TOO MUCH TO EXPECT OF PEOPLE.

IT IS TOO MUCH TO EXPECT AND I THINK THAT THE PRESIDENT WILL BE ON VERY FIRM CONSTITUTIONAL GROUNDS WITH REQUIRING VACCINATIONS.

AND I THINK THAT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

IT WILL TAKE A WHILE BUT PEOPLE ARE GETTING VACCINATED BECAUSE I DON'T THINK PEOPLE ARE READY TO GO BACK TO BEING SHUT DOWN.

AND THAT IS -- IF WE DON'T GET A HIGHER VACCINATION LEVEL, THAT MAY BE THE ONLY ALTERNATIVE.

THAT DAMAGES THE ECONOMY TREMENDOUSLY.

Gene: KRISTELLE THE WHITE HOUSE IS SELLING THIS MANDATE AS A COVER FOR BUSINESSES WHO WANT EMPLOYEES TO GET VACCINATED BUT ARE WORRIED ABOUT REQUIRING IT THEMSELVES.

IN OTHER WORDS, THEY CAN NOW BLAME THE GOVERNMENT.

YOU OWN A BUSINESS.

WHAT ARE YOU ASKING OR REQUIRING AND IF YOU HAD OVER 100 EMPLOYEES, I HAVE GO TO ASK YOU, WOULD THIS FEEL BETTER TO YOU.

Kristelle: I WISH I HAD OVER 100 EMPLOYEES BUT IT IS VERY AWKWARD FOR A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER OR LARGE BUSINESS OWNER, TECHNICALLY UNDER 100 IS STILL A SMALL BUSINESS IN THE SMALL BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION SIDE.

IT IS SO AWKWARD TO HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS IN TERMS OF LEADERSHIP BECAUSE SOME OF US BUSINESS OWNERS WANT TO MAKE SURE AN INDIVIDUAL FEELS COMFORTABLE IN THE WORKPLACE BUT BECAUSE OF EXTERNAL CIRCUMSTANCES, OUTSIDE OF THE WORKPLACE, IT MAKES IT UNCOMFORTABLE TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT VACCINES.

YOU KNOW, KNOCK ON WOOD WE HAVEN'T HAD AN OUTBREAK HERE IN OUR OFFICE AT SIARZA BUT IT IS STILL NERVE RACKING TO HAVE AND IT ALSO BECOMES A MATTER OF HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THAT, ON ONE HAND, WE ARE ASKING VERY POLITELY AND SOME INDIVIDUALS ARE NOT GETTING VACCINATED.

ON THE OTHER HAND, WE HAVE SOME EMPLOYEES THAT FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE IF OUR OTHER INDIVIDUALS AND IF WE CAN'T TALK ABOUT IT AS AN ORGANIZATION.

I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS I DO KIND WANT TO DIVERT AWAY FROM THE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT SMALL BUSINESSES AND LOOK AT LIKE AT THE WHOLE PICTURE OF OUR COUNTRY.

I FEEL VERY OPTIMISTIC NOT ONLY FROM THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO BUT HERE IN THE UNITED STATES THAT WE ARE ACTUALLY FINALLY HITTING A PLATEAU AND I UNDERSTAND SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS AND EMPLOYERS IN GENERAL HAVE TO MAKE SURE THE DOORS ARE STILL OPEN BECAUSE OF THE AMOUNT OF SICK LEAVE AND OUTAGES THAT WE HAVE HAD BECAUSE OF PEOPLE COMING DOWN WITH COVID.

I FEEL VERY OPTIMISTIC WE ARE HITTING A PLATEAU THAT WE ARE STARTING TO SEE HERE IN NEW MEXICO, THAT EMPLOYERS ARE JUST ANXIOUS TO GO BACK TO WHAT LIFE WAS LIKE TWO YEARS AGO AND, YEAH, TWO YEARS AGO WHEN NOTHING WAS GOING ON IN TERMS OF COVID AND ALL OF OUR EMPLOYMENT AND STAFFING LEVELS WERE PRETTY OKAY.

Gene: LET ME JUMP IN FOR DAN HERE.

I APPRECIATE THAT.

I WANT TO TAKE A BRIEF MOMENT TO CHAT ABOUT IVERMECTIN.

ARE WE OVER THIS?

IF STUDIES SHOW IT IS EFFECTIVE, WHAT IS THE HIT TO TRUST OF THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY.

IS THAT FAIR AFTER ALL?

THIS IS HOW SCIENCE WORKS RIGHT?

IT'S ALMOST LIKE A MINI TRIAL GOING ON.

PEOPLE ARE TAKING IT UPON THEMSELVES TO DO.

HOW SHOULD WE CONSIDER THIS IVERMECTIN THING?

Dan: I THINK IT IS JUST TOO EARLY TO SAY WHETHER IVERMECTIN IS EFFECTIVE FOR COVID-19 ACCORDING TO FDA AND CDC.

THERE ARE STUDIES UNDERWAY.

IT MAY PROVE TO BE AN EFFECTIVE TREATMENT BUT THAT IS NOT CLEAR YET.

WE HAVE HAD OUR FIRST SUSPECTED IVERMECTIN OVERDOSE DEATH IN NEW MEXICO.

BUT THAT IS NOT CONNECTED TO A PRESCRIPTION FROM A DOCTOR.

THIS IS SOMEONE WHO APPARENTLY GOT THE MEDICINE FROM A VETERINARY SUPPLY STORE AND THAT IS A WHOLE OTHER THING IN TERMS OF THE VOLUME FOR SELF-ADMINISTERING SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

SO, THERE ARE TWO ISSUES.

THERE IS SORT OF THIS BLACK-MARKET TYPE OF VET SUPPLY DRUG AND THEN THERE IS ALSO PEOPLE WHO GET IT THROUGH THEIR PHYSICIAN.

THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO, THE TOP PHYSICIANS FOR THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT, ARE ADVISING PEOPLE DO NOT TRY TO TAKE IVERMECTIN ON YOUR OWN.

LET THE STUDIES PLAY OUT AND WE'LL FIND OUT IF IT IS AN EFFECTIVE TREATMENT.

THERE ARE OTHER EFFECTIVE TREATMENTS ALREADY AVAILABLE.

Gene: LET'S TALK SCHOOLS.

HOW DO WE FEEL IT IS GOING TO WORK WITH IN-PERSON LEARNING CLEARLY IMPORTANT AND BETTER FOR MOST KIDS TO LEARN THAT WAY, BUT AUGUST SAW A HUGE INCREASE IN POSITIVE CASES FOR KIDS ON CAMPUS AT SOME POINT.

THAT IS STARTING TO WANE CERTAINLY BUT DOES ANYONE SEE ANY WAY AROUND THIS OTHER THAN MASKS AND VACCINES?

I CAN'T IMAGINE THERE IS ANY OTHER SOLUTIONS.

Dede: I AGREE.

I THINK WE HAVE TO MAINTAIN MASKS AND THAT IS WHAT THE STATE ORDER SAID, INDOOR MASKING FOR THE NEXT MONTH.

AND PARTICULARLY IMPORTANT IN YOUNGER CHILDREN FOR WHOM THERE IS NO VACCINE YET.

AND I WISH I WOULD HEAR MORE TALK ABOUT VACCINES FOR THOSE YOUNGER CHILDREN.

I DON'T HEAR THAT MUCH ABOUT IT.

Gene: I WAS ABOUT TO ASK.

WE WON'T KNOW UNTIL THE END OF THE MONTH IF CDC RECOMMENDS BOOSTERS AT 6, 8 OR 10 MONTHS.

ANY SENSE, WE'LL GET A SIMILAR RATE OF PEOPLE TO GET WITH THE SHOT.

WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT KIDS HERE, AS DEDE WAS, BUT THE BOOSTER THING, DOES IT HAVE A CHANCE IN THIS SOCIETY?

Kristelle: SO, THE BOOSTER THING, I THINK, DOES HAVE A CHANCE INTO OR CURRENT SOCIETY NOW.

ESPECIALLY FOR THOSE THAT ARE IMMUNOCOMPROMISED LIKE COUNCILOR LAN SENA, WHO PUBLICLY CAME OUT AND SAID, ME AS A CANCER SURVIVOR, I AM CURRENTLY ACTIVELY GOING THROUGH CHEMOTHERAPY, AS MUCH AS I WANTED TO MAKE SURE SOMEBODY ELSE HAD VACCINE, I NEED TO GET A BOOSTER MYSELF.

I THINK BOOSTER SHOTS SHOULD ABSOLUTELY BE A PART OF THE CONVERSATION.

TALKING ABOUT CHILDREN, IF THERE IS ANY BIG CRITIQUE I HAD, IT IS WHY ARE WE NOT TALKING ABOUT CHILDREN, YOU KNOW, AGREEING WITH SENATOR DEDE FELDMAN, LIKE, WE NEED TO START THINKING ABOUT VACCINATING OUR CHILDREN BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT LOOKING AT POLIO AND HOW THAT WAS A CHILDREN'S ILLNESS, WE LOOK AT MUMPS, RUBELLA, MEASLES, ET CETERA, WE HAVE VACCINES FOR THAT, WHY NOT ADD COVID INTO THE CONVERSATION SO THAT WAY OVER TIME OUR COMMUNITIES BECOME IMMUNE TO COVID OVER THE NEXT GENERATIONS.

I THINK TOO, WE JUST NEED -- THE WORLD IN GENERAL JUST NEEDS TO GET ON BOARD WITH VACCINES.

LOOK AT THINGS HAPPENING IN CHINA AND LOSING TRUST IN VACCINATIONS AND LACK OF EDUCATION.

IN CHINA, IN THE PHILIPPINES, IN ASIA, ET CETERA, IT IS REALLY DISHEARTENING TO SEE THE REST OF THE WORLD DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE OF VACCINES AND HELPING US GET BACK TO WHERE WE NEED TO BE AS A GLOBAL ECONOMY AND COMMUNITY OF VARIOUS DIFFERENT COUNTRIES.

Gene: THAT WILL DO IT FOR THIS WEEK.

THANKS TO OUR PANELISTS.

I AM BACK IN A MOMENT WITH FINAL THOUGHTS.

NOW AND AGAIN I GET THE FEELING THE NEVER-ENDING USE OF THAT WORD CRIME MAY BE ACTUALLY CONTRIBUTING TO THE PROBLEM.

WE ARE ENDLESSLY FIGHTING CRIME HERE.

THE PROBLEM WITH FIGHTING ANYTHING IS ONCE THE FIGHT STARTS, SOMEONE IS GOING TO WIN AND SOMEONE IS GOING TO LOSE.

RIGHT NOW ONE COULD REASONABLY ARGUE FROM THE NUMBERS, WE ARE CURRENTLY NOT WINNING.

NAMELY PARENTS ARE NOT WINNING.

LIKE MANY OF YOU, I HAVE GONE THROUGH THE GAUNTLET OF SENDING OUR KIDS OFF TO WORK TO FIRST JOBS IN THIS STICK-EM-UP ENVIRONMENT.

I WAS TRIGGERED BY THE TWO EARLY MORNING ROBBERIES THAT ENDED WITH EMPLOYEES ALLEGEDLY SHOOTING THE ROBBERS.

GETTING UP AT 4:30 IN THE MORNING FOR THE EARLY SHIFT SHOULDN'T HAVE TO INCLUDE BRING A FIREARM BUT THERE IT IS.

LIVING LIKE THIS IS UNFAIR.

IT JUST IS.

NOT JUST FOR PARENTS.

IF THERE WAS A TIME FOR A BIG IDEA, IT IS CERTAINLY MUST BE NOW.

THANKS AGAIN FOR JOINING US AND STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED.

SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK, IN FOCUS.