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Good morning, I'm Anne Shindler.

This is First Coast Connect and it's Friday, which means it's time for our first Coast Week in Review.

Among our topics oaths for teachers and moral instructions for students.

As Florida continues it conservative educational shift, Jacksonville leaders approve emergency food funds to plug a fraying safety net.

A near doubling of state executions, with Florida home to almost 40% of the country's total.

The city's telehealth provider calls a council members fraud claims entirely false, and a small scale slaughterhouse pulls back plans for a beach boulevard facility.

To talk about all that and more.

I am joined by David Bauer, line metro reporter at the Florida Times-Union 30 Times Union.

Good morning David.

Good morning everybody.

Frank Powers, former assignment manager at news four.

Jax.

Good morning Frank.

Good morning.

Thanks for having me.

And thanks to veterans on this Veterans Week.

Oh very nice.

Also, joined by Robin Lum, former Jacksonville City Council member.

Robin, thank you and welcome back.

Thank you for inviting me.

And Anthony Austin, anchor at First Coast News.

Good morning Anthony.

Good morning again.

So nice to see you all today.

I want to start off talking about the Department of Education announcement yesterday, that it'll b the first state in the country to adopt the so-called Phoenix Declaration.

This is a creation by the conservative think tank, the Heritage Foundation, which is the group, of course, behind the 2025 playbook, for Republican leaders.

And so this announcement was made yesterday, a unanimous, adoption.

David Bauer, what how does this fit into sort of the overall picture in Florida and Florida's educational system?

You know, obviously, the part about school choice is something that really has already been underway in Florida for a while in terms of this idea that the education funding should follow the child.

So I don't think this changes that part of the equation in Florida, which every year that that moves further and further in terms of how education policy set in the state.

Now, some of the others, in terms of, what teachers say or don't say or how they teach, I mean, I know that that has come up before.

I'm not sure.

I was readin through the Phoenix Declaration.

I think, if I were a teacher, you know, what is it exactly mean to be able to follow some of these prescriptions here?

So I think that's, you know, it's obviousl going further, I think in terms of sort of setting the stage at the state level for not only the curriculum how the curriculum is presented.

To what extent teacher can sort of follow themes or not follow themes.

So, I suppose that maybe a change in terms of how that moves forward.

You know, I was reading through it.

I mean, there's we can maybe get into some of the bullet points, but one of them was, citizens should teach citizenship, civic virtues and knowledge for self-government.

I think that's something everybody would agree with.

That some are a little vaguer.

I mean, I mean, so there's kind of this list of priorities, right?

And it starts with parental choice, as you say, and transparency and accountability, which sounds terrific.

The third one they list is Truth and Goodness, which sounded a little vague.

But the description, sort of says education grounded in objective truth, free from ideological fads and oriente towards the pursuit of the good.

Robyn Lum, that seems like that might be a little open to interpretation.

Pursuit of the good.

It is, but it could also be open to, a number of interpretations, that aren't necessarily binding on teachers.

So pursuit of the good.

I mean, that could invite, some, very healthy discussion in the classroom.

So as far as objective truth is concerned, you're going to have a lot of debates as to what is what constitutes objective truth.

Sure.

But, as opposed to moral relativism.

Yes, I would, I would support, that approach, other, priorities, cultural transmission, character formation, and then kind of second to last on the list.

Anthony, academic excellence which seems like a maybe a low placing for a set of priorities promulgate by the Department of Education.

But this is something that, you know, they've made clear they believe that shaping the child, might be more important than transmitting sort of specific knowledge or curriculum right in, in for that pillar for academic excellence.

It says that schools should prioritize proven teaching methods and the content rich curriculu rooted in foundational subjects or fads or, quote experimental teaching methods.

Now, a lot of critics of this, especially a lot of teachers who are against this and they're not fans of this.

Oh, they say we already do that in the classroom.

We already work with students.

We work with parents to provide the the best education as possible.

In fact, the Florida Education Association, they came out against this saying, quote, the board should focus on what students actually need.

Fully funded schools, solving the teacher and staff shortage, and making sure every child has access to a strong public school in their own neighborhood.

And they say that should be the priority right now.

They say they already do what this Phoenix Declaration already says.

So why should they be forced to sign?

Yeah, I think along those same lines, Frank, this loyalty oath that, Senator Clay Yarborough is proposing, which basically would, you know, required teachers, including, you know, pre-K teacher to sign, or to to swear an oath.

To the Constitution and, you know, affirm their kind of, belief in the system, also their qualifications to, to teach.

There are some people that are, you know, concerned that that is tracking wit just more of a kind of obedience slash conformity as opposed to, you know, serving any, true need in terms of what, you know, what teachers should bring or wha they should be obligated to do.

But others say, well, if you've got nothing to object to.

Why not?

Well, on paper, the oath seems to endorse qualities and goals we should all aspire to.

Right.

Be a civic responsibility.

Highest standards in in your behavior and dealing with others.

Be a positive role model for kids.

Those come from within.

Those are qualities.

You can't tell people you're goi It's it's a mandate.

But my question is all right, let's have the oath.

People are going to sign it because there's an implie threat of loss of state funding.

Who's going to determin if the oath has been violated?

When we're going to have oath police.

Are there going to be what a violation is codified in this oath?

And who decides where those violations have taken place and decides can the violator challeng the accusation or what happens?

I mean, if you do violate the oath, is that something that can be actionable against your teaching life?

Literally, that's the point.

I mean this would be the implication.

That's the implication.

We're going to have you sign an oath, which, by the way, sounds more like something a police officer or a soldier would say.

Or maybe Superman, truth, justice in the American way.

Yeah.

We have an emai from MJ saying our school board, which is supposed to be operating as a nonpartisan, nonpartisan body, has increasingly adopted conservative, ideology driven policies that are reshaping public education.

And Duval County public school are meant to serve all children.

When boards become partizan, it undermines trust, silences diverse voices and puts students and educators in the crossfire of political battles that do nothing to improve academic outcomes.

And then adds, parents need to be aware of what's happening in the community deserves transparency.

Robyn, I'll just as for your last thought on this.

I mean, is there something that this, that our educational system will gain if this if this oath becomes a requirement?

I don't see that there's a loss.

And as far as the school board being Partizan, being conservative isn't being Partizan.

That's a it's a there are different approaches to public, to service and public office.

So, yes, this, this school board tends to skew more conservative, but that doesn't make them partizan.

One thing I'd lik to make, you're talking a point I'd like to make about the, this this notion about the, teaching fads.

You know, we've been having large scale public education in this country for well over 100 years.

You would think that by this time, pedagogy would have focused in on things that work.

And in recent years, we've see the social, emotional teaching.

We've gone through the hear of the Common Core controversy.

I think that we are prone to pursuing these fads when, we really should be concentrating on some.

If we haven't figured out by now how learning takes place in the classroom, then we really have problems.

So, you can talk about funding issues all you want.

But if we can't agree o how education should take place in the classroom, I think that's that's the great failure.

I'd venture to say a lot of teachers would say they know just fine what to do if the state would stop telling them how to run, and they might have a point.

Yes, I agree.

Also a message from Tom on Facebook saying anyone who thinks a loyalty oath is a good idea should rea Joseph Heller's novel catch 22.

The book describes what is going on currently, just as well as project 2022.

If you're just joining us, I'm talking to David Bauer, a line Anthony Austin, Frank Powers and Robi Lum about the week's headlines.

You can join our conversation by giving us a call at (904)549-2937.

You can email First Coast connect@wjct.org.

Or you can reach out on social.

And of course you can watch all of these beautiful faces on our live stream.

It's on the Wjct YouTube page and on Facebook.

I want to move on now to, some money that the city approved this week, to help forestall community hunger.

This is coming after the longest government shutdown in history.

A vote.

David, this is something that you covered happened at City council during their kind of Veterans Day delayed meeting on Wednesday.

And really, just hours before the House of Representative ended the government shutdown.

What were they aiming for here?

Well, I think it was short term relief.

They passed $200,000 which is also what Saint Johns County did, $200,000 just to kind of help out as, through this hump.

It does look like the federal government reopening means that there were going to be a full restoration of Snap benefits.

Sometimes there's a delay getting that through the pipeline.

There's another legislation for $2 million that got deferred and that still may come up.

You know, it does show that it shows in some sense that what happens at the federal level has a ripple down effect to the local level.

And if federal cuts happen, then there's going to be pressure on local lawmakers because they're closest to the people to find ways to make up the difference or try to make up the difference.

It's very difficul for local government to make up what the federal governmen and state government able to do, but in this case, $200,000, I would help a little bit.

I mean, there's I think sna benefits amount to $30 million citywide.

So you're not talking about a large amount of what the benefits programs are.

The federal government reopens.

So maybe that takes the pressure now off the local government to try and help to make up the difference and pick up that slack.

You know, Anthony, this wa something that David mentions, you know, our lawmakers being close to the citizens who are experiencing this.

And we heard some of those stories at the meeting.

You know, Ron Salem, who proposed this $200,000 versio of the emergency funding, said that he had attended a food drive at Regency Squar where 800 cars were pulled up.

Ultimately, he said that peopl started lining up at 4:45 a.m.

for the drive, and it didn' start until ten in the morning.

Exactly.

And I was about to say that, you know, in my line of work and especially being a consumer reporter and advocate for our channel, I see a lot of people who are constantly in need.

Even yesterday, the Bethel church, near downtown Jacksonville, they started a snap pantry.

And yesterday we went in.

The line was stretching for blocks.

Hundreds of people were lined up in need of just something to eat.

So they kind of tells you how great the need is in our community.

I mean, 160,000 people, according to the city of Jacksonville, rely on Snap benefits.

And across 23 neighborhoods, over 1 in 2 households are on Snap.

That's according to statistic from the city of Jacksonville.

So it just kind of tells you about the need and even that $200,000 that was approved by the city council, feeding northeast Florida, where the money is going to, they say that that's going to only last them for about two weeks.

It's going to feed a lot of people, but that money will be gone in two weeks.

Yeah.

Robin Lum This was a rare unanimous vote by the city council.

There was a couple absent but it was basically a 17 zero in favor of and so there are some things that even in a very divided, city government can bring together even very different sides.

I think they learned their lesson, from back during the budget hearings when they tried to, zero out funding for Meals on Wheels.

That blew up in their faces.

So, this makes sense.

At $200,000, somebody said would feed 25,000 people.

Well, that's that's that's $8 per person.

That's not going to go very far.

But this is the kind of thing they should be doing.

I'm I'm surprised, that, feeding northeast Florid isn't a line item in the budget.

I would think I would think that it would be, but, frankly, I don't know.

Yeah.

I mean, that is the agency tha is trying to pick up the slack.

And Frank, this is, you know, they're they provide, you know, like all food banks in the country basically one out of every nine meals, the rest provided by Snap in terms of, you know, the need and their ability to fill that space, it really is not easy for them to scale up or maybe even possible for them to scale up.

Well, feeding northeast Florida and all the other food bank's literally put out an emergency call a couple of weeks ago, and they thought snap was going to go away for an undetermined amount of time.

The need is great.

As Anthony points out, it's, this pas weekend, kids from high schools are in front of, Winn-Dixie and Publix doing food drives.

And there was a lot of enthusiasm.

And that's that's good.

There's that civi responsibility at an early age.

Was very great to see what's going on in America is not just to the, people who have little jobs or low paying jobs.

It's happening to high paying parts of the economy.

All the layoffs, literally hundreds of thousands in the last couple of months being I don't know if the wor is blamed, but attributed to I. And that's only going to continue.

So we're going to see more and more people finding out that their monthly money doesn't last till the end of the month, and they will need more help.

Yeah.

And it is a obviously a time of year where peopl are thinking a lot about that.

There's a turkey giveaway today, you know, in downtown Jacksonville.

So anyway, that need exists and is there I want to move on now to a topic conducted another execution.

This was of a man named Brian Jennings.

He was convicted of the 1979 murder of a six year old named Becky Kunesh.

And this was, you know, on pace to be, I mean, a continued record breaking pace.

Anthony, of Florida executions.

That's right.

You know, when you look at the numbers right now just kind of give a perspective.

Since governor DeSantis took office here in Florida, the numbers have swung dramatically.

Few in 2019, none in 2020 through 2022.

And the governor sayin that was because of the pandemic and 1 in 24.

And now we have a big jump in 2025.

So Florida currently has about 256 people on death row.

That's the second largest deat row population in the country.

And some people are wondering, why are we seeing an uptick in these executions?

The governor says, for our state, the increase stems partly from the shutdow caused by the Covid 19 pandemic and also a renewed focus, he says, on bringing justice to victims families.

But some people, some experts aren't so sure about that.

An attorney has suggested that the shift also relates to federal policy changes and also the state's, pus to reduce its death row backlog.

But also one change we know to something that's important to mention back in 2023.

There are the law actually required, lowered the requirement for a jury to recommend the death from unanimous, to an 8 to 4 vote.

Sure.

Right.

No longer unanimous, juries required for death in this in the state.

But there is this big backlog.

David Bauer line.

And the governor seems intent on sort of clearing out that backlog.

But there have also been, suggestions that some of this is politically motivated, you know, this, this, execution that was held of this man who killed six year old Becky, Brian Jennings.

That death warrant was signed almost just an hour or two after this kind of very public social media spat between our governor and the state of Kentucky, because they had released another murderer of a six year old who'd come to Florida and been rearrested.

And, there was sort of thi jostling back and forth about, well, Florida has the, you know, the the cocktail.

If you want to borrow at Kentucky, we can do, you know, executions here.

And almost immediately, the governor signed that deat warrant for this other six year old killer.

There's people who say that there's sort of a measure of politics in this.

Well, I think crime always is political in terms of being tough on crime.

Being, you know, the idea of, caring through the sentences that have been on the books for a while.

So, yes, I would say that, you know, it's I would think it would be difficult in the state of Florida to run for a statewide office and say you opposed the death penalty.

So politically, it' an issue that works for somebody who's willing to say, yes I believe in the death penalty.

I believe in enforcement of it.

I believe that we shoul carry out these death sentences.

I mean, the flip sid always end is the death penalty.

Death penalty in execution is the final verdict.

I mean, you have had cases, obviously, over the years where people have been put o death row and later exonerated 30 of them here in Florida.

There's been, you know, I think nationwide, 200 since 1973, 30 since that time have been in Florida.

So, you know, we had one case here a few years ago where at Hinds.

You know, where the, th they freed somebody from death row who had been on death row after reviewing the evidence.

So, this was in 2019, I think, his name was, Clifford Williams.

So, so, yeah, that's that's the politics of it.

Are that, you know, on the one hand, yes, that is a winning issue, so to speak, politically, if you want to frame it that way, to be in favo of the death penalty in Florida, you know, how do you make sure, though, that nobody is executed?

And then evidence comes out that that person was not the killer.

In this particular case, he was tried three separate times.

The first two convictions were overturned.

It was I think he wa tried again in 86, found guilty.

The death sentence was imposed.

I think what people are concerned about is here we have this backlog of 258 people on, on death row.

And what we may have, what, 18 executions this year when we've had only about or 7 in the previous five years?

You know, just as governor DeSantis said, justice delayed is justice denied.

It's not it's not like there's a bloodbath.

I mean, these people were were duly sentenced, and the sentences need to be carried out.

The the pace that Florida is on right now, we should say i will be by the end of the year.

2018 is what we're on track to, to be two more.

Currently this year, both Texas and Alabama just have five each.

So Florida's current 16 going on 18 is, well ahead of most other states that carry out executions.

But I want to ask you, Robin, because one of the concerns was that this, man, when he was killed didn't when it when the death warrant was signed, didn't actually have a state provided lawyer at the time.

And that is, you know, violation of sort of the rules, the way that things are done.

And so, you know, yes, justice delayed, justice denied.

But this guy's been on death row for 50 years.

What's the hurry You know what I mean?

Like it?

What is the hurry?

That would, would justify circumventing the rules and sort of the process that's in place to ensure that this is done fairly, equitably.

And, you know, with all of the things, all the fuss, you've had free trials, you've had due process.

The sentence was imposed, at this point, other than this, this, this requirement, I'll call it a technical requirement that he have some sort of legal representation at this stage in the process.

Is there is there a real reason that the execution should have been delayed?

I mean, three trials doesn't necessarily suggest a perfect system, right?

Three trials suggests that things went wrong in the previous two.

And usually what goes wrong are jury instructions, things like that.

So, three trials, three convictions.

The imposition of the death penalty three separate times in 1986.

It's stuck after 40 years.

I don't you know, I, I'm assuming he's he's exhausted all his appeals.

So, so what do you do.

Yeah.

Carry out justice.

So no point in this process.

Did anybody say he didn't do it?

He did it The evidence was overwhelming.

He is the worst of the worst.

He's a Donald Smith.

He's a, Jared Harrell.

People who are in our society and prey on the young and the defenseless, that's evil.

And we are better of for having evil off this planet.

And, Frank this is something we should say.

I mean, you don't take executions lightly.

You've witnessed four executions in your time as a journalist, including two here in Florida, including Florida' last electric chair execution.

That would have been Allen Tiny Davis, who killed three people a mother and her two children.

And I'm glad you mentioned the name of Becky Kunesh at the start, becaus we have to remember the victims because too often they get lost in this, the woman and her two children who were murdered that night by Mr.

Davis.

Catherine and Christina Wyler and thei mother, Nancy, were butchered.

I wasn't here then.

I know police officers were there that night, and they were crying.

What they saw inside that house.

He was brought into the chamber in 1999.

A big guy, like, over 300 pounds.

Tiny.

Tiny.

Yeah.

And they asked him if he had any last words.

He said no, they put the hood over him.

He starts crying and then the execution is carried out.

What made that thing the last use of old Sparky is because he was so big and had so many medical conditions.

He was on blood thinner.

So when electricity hit him, a blood vessel ruptured in his skull and blood came pouring out from under the black hood, under his white shirt.

And that led to the Florida Supreme Court basicall telling the legislature, change the death penalty, get rid of electrocution in favor of lethal injection, or we will strike the death penalty law down as barbaric.

And they did it well.

One of the concerns I mean, in addition to the fact that it was kind of this very bloody and sort of, you know, visually horrific, it was it's hard to forget.

Yeah.

But what was also the fact that his, his ches continued to rise and fall for, for some tim after the power was cut, as in he appeared to still be alive, called Agonal breathing.

There was after the Pedro Medina execution, which that was the other botched one in which he spot on his head caught on fire because it wasn't sufficiently slanted.

They were hearings, two sets o hearings here in Duval County, and it was ruled that were not electricity hit your brain.

That's it.

Instantaneous.

I mean, there may be some physical manifestations of agonal breathing, but the brain has gone.

All right.

We've got a call from Sally in Springfield.

Good morning.

Sally, go ahead.

Yes.

Good morning.

Thank you.

I just wanted to say I, I, I feel for the victims.

It's it's I' not diminishing their suffering, but the death penalty is barbaric.

I had to actually turn the volume down when, the gentleman was describing what happened.

Next slide please.

Fair warning to the rest of u when you're talking about that, I think it's barbaric.

And I think it's unbelievable that Florida is 40% and say of the death penalty I think it should be abolished.

I don't believe in it.

And I know that the panelist who's condoning it, you know, has his, opinions about i as far as the law is concerned.

But it is barbaric.

We should not be doing it.

Thanks for your thoughts, Sally.

Americans opinions about the death penalty are shifting gradually but steadily against it.

In 1984, 80% of Americans in a Gallup poll said they were in favor of the death penalty.

That same poll last year, only 53%.

I just want to throw out one more, issue that has been troubling to people who are critical of policy surrounding this process, and that's sort of this lack of transparency.

The example that has come up is a death warrant that was signed, for Kyle Bates.

Excuse me, lawyers for Kyle Bates had filed a lawsuit against the state saying that they're only executing people who have white victims.

And they're not executing people who have black victims.

They were suggesting that there's a racial bias in the enforcement, or in the kind of the motive to sign a death warrant, prioritizing white lives, essentially.

And so this lawsuit was filed July 29th.

Two hours later, the governor signed a death warrant for a different man who was convicte of killing three black victims.

And once again, the peopl who are the kind of the Florida, who Floridians for alternatives to the Death Penalty, saying this appears to be a politically motivated death warrant signing in reaction to this lawsuit, just sort of justify and to boost the numbers of people who've killed black victims by choosing someone on deat row who had three black victims and sort of trying to create some, parody there.

David, I don't know if that's if that's two in the weeds, but people are saying, look, if we just knew more about ho the governor made his decision, you know what the process is, who he's prioritizing, what the threshold is for somebody that's been on death row for 50 year and then suddenly gets a warrant for death, that there might not be questions.

Yeah, I think those are legitimate questions to have answered.

You know, what is the process when you had this large pool of people waiting on death row?

Is there some process in place for, okay, this person's been through all the appeals.

This person, that's been o there's been this amount of time since it is there a standard for saying, well, we feel like there was, really you always have after meet the standard of proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

But there was some level of certainty in this particular case in terms of what was proven in court.

I, I think those are all legitimate questions.

And yeah, why why this person as opposed to that person is being selected to go have this, the ultimate punishment administered to him.

All right.

I want to take a call from Linda in Mandarin.

Linda.

Go ahead, please.

Yes.

I think, earlier, there was a gentleman on your panel that said the guy that got killed was the worst of the wors and preying on young children.

Well, in the media today, we have a lot of people showing up that we're taking advantage of young children, and a lot of people got bypassed.

I'm not condoning that.

But the rules were there for a reason.

And in this current environment where we're asking teachers to take oath to the Constitution, when our leaders don't follow the Constitution, we need rules to constrain power.

So the governor is making his, you know, in the middle of the night, he's deciding who gets executed tomorrow.

But if the guy didn' have a court appointed counsel, even though he was on there for 50 years, the rules or the rules, if he's the worst of the worst, then he'll be the worst of the worst next month when he gets court appointed attorney.

We need to follow the rules because later on, if you don't, then somebody who doesn't even have counsel or is mentally deficient will say, well, he's not a good person or he's committed a crime, and we've proved it once, even though it's been overturned.

So let's execute him because if we do that, there's a lot of rich billionaires that should have that same a standard is the are these pedophiles out here.

So let's just calm it down and follow the rules.

They're there for a reason.

Thanks.

Thanks, Linda.

We also have a call from Tom on the West Side.

Good morning Tom.

Go ahead.

Good morning to you, too.

Just wanted to say that, scientific evidence has shown that cross-cultural witness identification is, is almost impossible.

And, most of these death penalty cases involve, cross-cultural witness identification.

So there's some serious problems and there may be more innocent people on death row than we even realize.

Thanks, Tom.

I appreciate your feedback.

I want to move on now to an issue that came up in city council once again.

But this was the meeting o the Dodge Committee, which is, created much like the other Dodge committees at the state and federal level to root out waste, fraud and abuse.

This was driven by a single council members claims about fraud.

This is coming from council member Marie Diamond.

Basically saying without any, evidence, apparently, but making some really serious criminal accusations.

Anthony, catch us up on sort of what he was saying, ahead of this meeting and why he wanted an emergency Dodge meeting.

Yeah we're talking about the city's, telehealth contract and city Councilman Rory Diamond.

He claims that he's received a lot of phone calls and messages from people saying that basically, the telehealth contrac is being violated in such a way that there's a lot of Medicare and Medicaid fraud with patients being unnecessarily sent to the emergency room, and that's costing the city a lot of money.

However, as you just mentioned, when he's been pressed to provide examples of this, there seems to be no clear examples on exactly what is happening with this Medicare and Medicaid fraud that he's alleging.

It is important to mention it.

Also, I know, City Councilman Roy Diamond has also acknowledged this, that the city confirmed that the office of the Inspector General has reviewed the telehealth contract and found that the procurement proces followed all required protocols.

In this situation and even the founder, the co-founder of Telescope Health, we did an interview with him right after that meeting and he said, once again, where are the examples?

Where is the proof of this so-called fraud?

He says these are erroneous accusations that distract from health, linked Jackson's mission to, quote, make care accessible to all.

Duval County residents.

So I think the big question i where are the examples of this alleged fraud?

Robert, I want to ask you about the process there, because, you know, Rory Diamond is saying, look, we are hearing these allegations.

We just want to get to the bottom of it.

We want to have an investigation.

We want to look into it.

At the same time he's, you know, he's saying things like, this is a serious misuse of taxpayer fund with potential illegal conduct.

He's saying government officials may be, diverting contracts to themselves.

And he is also citing fraud claim of Medicare and Medicaid fraud.

Those are all kind of criminal allegations.

You know, Rory Diamond is an attorney.

What do you think about kin of presenting those allegations before an investigation takes place in terms of, you know, process or just even kind of I think he needs to be very careful about what he says, because this is crossing over into, what I would if I were, if I were that busines owner, that contract provider, I would consider that defamatory, and damaging to my business, my business model.

I can't I don't see any evidence of that.

The whole idea behind, tha the, telo link, service is to, is to talk to people about their health care needs, try to get them with a physician that can talk to them over the phone and keep people from going, making unnecessary trips to the emergency room.

But if they wind up going to the emergency room, if, you know, how was that fraud?

I mean, there's there's it just doesn't it doesn't make any sense if I of a friend of mine calls me and says tha they just had a terrible fall, and I say, well, you need to go to the emergency room, am I committing Medicare, Medicaid fraud?

And it's it's it' it doesn't make any sense to me.

And I don't see any proof.

You know, Frank, this is a service that basically is meant to help people who don't have insurance.

And so the they're not hiding Medicare or Medicaid.

Well, that's wha the telehealth folks have said.

It's it's called, Jack's Health link.

The health link.

Jack.

Sorry.

And so they basically said we don't deal with Medicare and Medicaid.

We're, we're dealing with people that don't have an insurance.

If there's fraud, bring it forward.

There was that 30 minute meeting the other day.

No allegations of any specificity were brought out.

Mr.

Diamond has made it clear that this is not political.

Well, in my experience, when somebody says it's not political, guess what?

It's political.

He said, well, I was part of the J thing.

All right.

So what happened then?

He sent out subpoenas so he knows how to do it, send out subpoenas.

And as for his claim that a company would come forward and do what, Jack's health links doing without being paid, I'd like to see that.

And by the way, diamond also removed himself from the J investigation at one point when things just started heating up.

That's when he removed himself from that.

That, that role he was playing.

I mean, that was going to say and I think that the company's response has been that we, you know, the the allegation of Medicaid or Medicare fraud since they don't pay, have any Medicare, any anybody who's on Medicare or Medicaid, they can't bill Medicar or Medicaid in the first place.

So that's been their response there.

And the other one about, transporting or transferring o directing people to hospitals, the whole thing.

Jack's progra isn't set up to do that either.

It's set up to for people to not go to hospitals when they don't have an emergency situation.

And telescope says they've saved the city of $11 million by, not sending people to th emergency room and necessarily.

Right.

I think that Roy Diamond maybe doesn't dispute the savings, but David and I don't know if you know this but he's you know, his assertion is that this service either could be free or it used to be free or it should be free.

This sort of free alternative telehealth service, he says he googled something and it does exist.

Is that something that has been discussed at any depth at the city level?

Somewhat.

I mean, and that's something they'll look at more.

I mean, basically, he's referring to there's a program that's in place already in Jacksonville that if you call 911, the fire and Rescue Department has a contract with the company out of San Antonio, where if they determine that it's not something that requires an emergency tri to the hospital, they'll offer the person called the chance to get telehealth treatment of, diagnosis and treatment of that.

And so it's really at point of service is somebody calls 911 whether they have insurance or don't, they get the offer of getting this telehealth service.

And it is free to the city because the company makes its money by then billing the health insurance company for the service.

But that's a different animal from providing a 24 hour, seven day a week service where somebody can call a number, get the telehealth service and the in the in that health link.

Jacksonville is just for people who lack any insurance of any kind.

They don't have Medicare that a medicaid.

They don't get it through work.

They don't get it through, a self-insurance program.

So there are two different programs and, two different concepts.

So, you know, there that they are, in the words of Telescope health, apples and oranges.

And I think the company tha also provides a service to the through the fire department would probably say, you know, they're they're not the same program, whether one can be melded to the other.

I mean, that's somethin they're going to look at.

Yeah.

All right.

I want to move on.

But if you'd like to comment on this week's news, we want to hear from you.

Give us a call at 904 or 5 492937.

You can also email First Coast connect@wjct.org.

Or you can reach out on social media.

So, as our final topic, I want to move on to this butcher shop that was not, or a butcher shop that was proposed.

And that request has been withdrawn.

Apna Bazaar is a grocery store on Beach Boulevard.

It's kind of right by 295 across from Starbucks and right across from an Arby's, ironically.

Well, I you know, I noticed that I was thinking, okay, they're directl across the street from Arby's.

We have the meats there right across from Winn-Dixie, the beef people.

And yeah, this was a very controversial proposa to create a sort of small scale slaughterhous adjacent to this grocery store that would be processing animals by, it kind of, according to Islamic law, said that they were either killed in a certain way.

It's called halal preparation.

So that is not going to happen.

This is the second time the company has tried.

They tried it up on the North side a couple years ago, me with the same Nimby outlaw, and people on Cortez Road rose u and raised all types of issues.

There.

Now, I went to the planning Commission and they deadlocked 3 to 3, and that lack of a recommendation was going to go to laws.

That's land use and zoning.

And that would have been quite the hearing.

But you can only imagine how that would turned out.

I don't know, I just, you know, everybody eats meat.

A lot of people eat meat.

I know my daughter's a vega and keeps trying to convince me not to eat meat, but people like their meat.

But to put a abattoir with credit to Monty Python there who thought that was a good idea?

You know what Nimby means, right?

Not in my backyard.

Well, in this case, it' no industrial meat butchering.

Yuck.

Yeah.

You know, the you keep describing this as a small scale.

It's not a butcher shop.

It's a slaughterhouse, and it's not small scale.

He had an application for a 30,000 square foot addition to the existing building, and a 23,000 square foot additional freestanding store, jointly the size of a flat.

Well, it sounds like this was going to be industrial scale.

So what do you do when you're opening a slaughterhouse like that?

You're transporting in animals.

You've got to, adjust for the accumulation o animal feces, dispose of that.

So I, you know, and by the way, there ar a number of European countries that have banned allo slaughtering because it's it's the animal's throat is cut while it's still fully conscious.

It's not pre stunned.

So this is, you know, you can get off on to, whether or not halal, meat processing is it.

It's it's it's no I would not consider it humane, but I don't think they were able to decide on that basis.

It was a function of is this a good use in the.

Sure.

I don't think that there's probably much of a good example for humane butchering in this country, across the board, whether and when I said small scale, I really just meant compared to industrial scale.

There, you know, there are not that many slaughterhouses that aren't dealing with kind of a mass quantity of animals, as if not in mixed use residential neighbo either of North Beach Boulevard.

Exactly right.

Or on the northwest side, which is where it was originally proposed.

David, the you know, the the the grocery stor said, look, this was, you know, our attempt to sort of service our customers.

The closest place we can find these are in, Orlando.

But they basically said, we hear you.

We're not going to put this in.

Y'all are welcome at our grocery store.

Do you expect this is going to resurface?

I would think it would resurface somewhere in Jacksonville.

I mean, they've tried twice.

I don't understand really why it's so hard to find the the site that's industrial zone to do this, in, in term of not needing a zoning change.

But I do think part of it is, you know, they would need t find a site, I think somewhere, that, does not, is not clos to a residential neighborhood.

That's certainly seems to be the case there.

And so, so I would think they would try again.

I mean, why not?

I mean, there certainly is a place somewhere in this.

And that was part of the objection that the neighbors made.

Is, look this is a huge land mass city.

Surely there's someplace in the city where you can set up thi establishment that doesn't have, it's not close to residential neighborhoods.

So I think it would come back.

I mean, I wouldn't let's say it wouldn't surprise me if it came back.

Yeah.

Anthony.

It is.

It's on a lot of levels, a difficult prospect.

You know, people were worried about property values, but then you also kind of, you start to hear descriptions of, you know, the way animals are treated.

You get kind of the whole, animal rights advocacy ginned up.

I mean, there's a lot of agents sort of coming together when you have something like this that is just on beach Boulevard.

That leads to a lot of community pushback, right?

Because we're talking about chickens, lambs, goats, cows that would be brought in to this facility has kind of been the big pushback, because the owners, they've told us in statement that even through their lawyer, they're they're going to have USDA oversight.

They're going to have the proper insulation that would cut down on the noise and the smell.

So you don't hear these animals being slaughtered and you don't smell them as well.

But a lot of people in the community were saying, okay, exactly how are you going to do that when they're being shipped in?

We're still who's going to what's going to fly out of one of these, you know, cattle trucks or whatever it may be that's coming into the neighborhood.

But the owners have continued to say, you know, this is, you know, a part of their faith and this would be more affordable for their community.

And they just want to provide that service.

But they're listening to the community.

So it'll be interesting to see if this does indeed come back up.

I do believe that they have said they are looking at possible other locations.

We're actually following up on this story.

I know for sure we have a reporter on it, so we'll just got to be interesting to see where this progresses from here.

We'll follow up with First Coast Connect, Anthony Austin, Frank powers, David Barry Lyon, Robin Lum, thank you so much for being here today.

Really appreciate it.

Glad to be here.

Glad to be here.

All right.

Up next, a public medi tradition honors Mister Rogers for providing for people in our neighborhood.

Life South Community Blood centers providing blood and patien services to the local hospitals serving patients in this community.

Donating blood with Life South helps save lives.

More at Life south.org.

To find a bloo drive near you Terrell Hogan Law I'm Wayne Hogan.

When people are hurt through no fault of their own, finding the who, what, when where, why and how that led to the accident is critical to proving the truth.

More at Terrell Hogan Law.com.

For more than 40 years, he's brought to life the stories of America.

Now, Ken Burn turns his lens to the struggle that created America.

Ken Burns presents the American Revolution beginning Sunday night at eight on Jax, PBS and the PBS app.

Wjct Public Media invites you to a special screening of Gilda as we celebrate November.

Wednesday, November 19th.

Come out of the shadows and enjoy our cash bar popcorn and Gilda.

What did you say to him?

I just told him, the man answers.

Hangar doors open at 630, film screens at seven.

Home on me.

Visit wjct Dawgs film for tickets.

I am and the longest government shutdown in history is over.

On the next Friday news round up, we take stock of the aftermat and the provisions that made it into the final bill, plus newly released Epstein emails.

But the white House on defens and we say goodbye to the penny.

The Friday News round up next time on Wednesday.

Today, starting at ten on Wjct news 89 nine.

Welcome back.

Well, every year, Wjct honors the legacy of a man who epitomized warmth and generosity.

Fred Rogers, whose beloved PBS show helped shape kinder kids for more than three decades, created the annual Mister Rogers Sweater Drive to create and encourage the spirit of caring.

Here to tell us about the 23rd Annual Drive hosted by Wjct Public Media is Darren Cook, vice president of consumer sales for the Sudduth Company.

Good morning Darren.

Good morning.

Thanks for having me.

Thank you for being here.

We're also joined by Paul Stacey, CEO and executive director of the City Rescue Mission.

Paul Good morning.

Hey.

Good morning.

Thank you for having us here today.

And we're also joined by Kemal Gasper, our friend at Vystar Credit Union, where he works as the vice president of community engagement.

Welcome back.

Yes.

It's always great to be here.

Well, it's great to have you.

So, you know, Paul, this has been a reminder this last week of, Well, the need.

Right?

This has been a really cold week.

The need for winter clothing, especially for those who are less fortunate.

So what does this event mean?

You know, annually for you at City Rescue Mission.

Yeah, well, it's city rescue mission.

We have those who are most i need here in Jacksonville.

And, often they come to us maybe just with a single pai of clothes on their back and no, no coats or anything.

So as we go into this time of year, it's really critical to be able to give, coats, hats, gloves and things like that.

And like you said, this wee was a perfect example of where it went very cold very quickly.

So, yeah.

And so this, drive includes items, some of which you mentioned.

It's my understanding that you know, adult needs are real, but the need for children, gear is just as important.

It is.

Yes.

So what?

What can people donate in the realm of, like, what kids are looking for, what kids need?

Well, I think it's the same thing.

It's the the coats.

The jackets, the hats, the gloves, blankets all of this sort of gently used.

And then you also accept if there are new things like socks and underwear.

Yeah, yeah.

So come all.

What is it about this even that draws in your organization each year?

I mean, why?

The sweater drive in particular?

Yeah, it's it's the compassion and empathy of Mister Rogers.

And it's a way for our members and those in the community to be able to donate.

So every visit our location has three drop off boxes.

So for men, for women and children.

And so it's a great way for our members when they're doing business advice or those in the community that just want to donate.

But it also aligns with our purpose to do good, our core values that are lead by example.

And we're a credit union, but we make sure that we give back to the community.

So it's a great place for anyone to live, work and play.

For those that you think, for the individuals, you may think of them as being homeless, but there are individuals that are unsheltered, that are unhoused, and those that are living paycheck to paycheck, you know, need these cold, these warm weather items as cold weather season approaches.

Oh, come on, you're probably too young for the Mister Rogers general, Mister Rogers.

Okay.

I learne when I was, preparing for this that the sweaters that he wore on his show were actually knitted by his mom.

They were?

Yeah.

I mean, that' kind of an extraordinary thing, but we certainly do.

Darren.

Associate sweaters, warmth giving with Mister Rogers and just kind of the legacy that he lef behind of caring for neighbors.

Why is Sudduth involved in this effort?

What does it bring to the company?

Yeah.

Well, we have a responsibilit to give back to our community.

The people that make up our company also are people that make up, you know, different parts of the community.

So, we have we have a responsibility to, you know, treat everybody with dignit and respect that, that need it.

And it's basic things.

So we we take a lot of pride in being able to do this, not just in Jacksonville, but in other markets that we serve across the country, just as a way to help build and strengthen, the bond between businesses and the members, that, that we serve.

And so set up locations, there's two that people ca actually drop their gear off at.

Kamal mentioned that it's most vystar credit union branches.

They're also, I believe, it, th Tom Bush family of dealerships kind of there have and here at Wjct public media headquarters, of course.

Paul, what kind of response have you seen?

We we know that donations began on November 1st.

It goes through the 30th.

What kind of response we think so far, yeah.

So so really the donations go to the other locations so you won't see them until they see them.

But I think on, on the distribution day, that' when the big trucks roll in and, and everybody unloads and we're able to, you know, just distribut everything that was given.

So.

And in past years you've seen a pretty good haul.

It it has been it's, it's been a real blessin and that we're, we're just so, happy that we can be part of this.

So thank you both.

Yeah well, it's a great annual event.

All donations go to the Clara White Mission and to City Rescue Mission, in early December.

And if you have questions we've got a link on our website.

It also links to your guy's website.

So thank you so much for coming on today.

Thanks for doing this drive every year.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Absolutely.

All right.

And that's our program.

Thank you for listening.

If you have questions or comments you can send either t First Coast connect to wjct.org.

And if you missed anything, you can catch our rebroadcast at 8:00 tonight here on Wjct.

You can also find our entire archive at the First Coast Connec YouTube channel, and@wjct.org, or on your favorite podcast platform.

First Coast Connect is produced by Stacey Bennett.

Our associate producer is Isabella Cassie Powell.

Feel better Bella.

Our show is directed by Brady Corum and our theme music is performed by club de belugas.

Don't forget to listen Saturday at four, when neurologist Doctor Jo Servin speaks to the former NIH director about why public health should be a political.

Join us Monday when we ask members of a new task force what solutions they'd like to see to lower the cost of child care in the city.

I'm and Schindler, you've been listening to First Coast Connect on Wjct news 899.

And?

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The North Florida TPO is committed to shaping our transportation future.

We're focused on planning, funding, clean fuels and new technologies for a vibrant, connected community.

Learn more at North Florida tpo.com.

Baptist health is a prou supporter of First Coast Connect Baptist Health, committed to building a healthier community for all of us.

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