I'm Chris Moore.

In 1998, along with Doug Bolin, I produced a program called Wylie Avenue Days.

It was about Pittsburgh's Hill District in its heyday, a community that was alive, bustling and on the move.

People are always asking me, when are you going to do another show like that?

Well, today's the day we've gathered a group of women who, in their youth, came to Pittsburgh from outlying areas to seek their futures.

They all found refuge in one o the hills unsung institutions.

The Hill District YWCA on Center Avenue.

Welcome to another chapter in our continuing series of life on the Hill.

After I graduated from high school, we had teachers who planned our destiny along with our parents.

And, when we graduated from school, the thing most women got married or they went into nursing or to be a teacher, those were traditional career paths for widows.

Was the career paths for women?

And when I announced tha I wanted to be a businesswoman, they branded me as having little or no sense.

But I didn't want to do any of those things that they were suggesting.

So, I came to Pittsburgh and I studied business administration and that kind of thing.

And, Now you came from a small coal mining town in Pennsylvania.

What was that?

Came from a coal mining tow called Lamberton, Pennsylvania.

And Lamberton, Pennsylvania was like ten miles going south from Uniontown.

The town was all coal miners.

The Frick's own, the coal mine.

They owned the house.

They owned the company store.

They owned everything.

So there wasn't a great dea for you to do career wise there, right?

No.

So you came to Pittsburgh to to find that business career.

But I found i before I left that little town.

Oh.

Did you?

Yes, I did.

What happened?

Peopl who couldn't buy a ton of coal.

You know, when the truck would come in and dump the coal.

And, I would go aroun and knock on people's door and you must remember in this tow it was a town filled with love.

Men were all coal miners.

And when they came home, everybody was black.

You didn't have the black and white discussions that we have now They were covered with coldness.

Everybody was covered with coal dust.

And the only way, you know, you knew your father's walk.

That's how you pick your father out.

His cousin was the same.

True for you?

Where did you come from?

I came from a small town called Belle Vernon.

It was glass factory there.

Also coal mines.

And, it was a very, very small town with not too many blacks there.

So in order for me to do anything after I graduate from school, I had to leave home.

And you leave home the first thing, first place you think to go you're going to Pittsburgh.

You have Harrisburg, you hav New York, you have everywhere.

But my parents said no indeed.

You're not going to New York.

You are not someplace where Its close.

So that's how I got that's how I got here to Pittsburgh.

And after I arrived, I didn' go to the girls y immediately.

I was livin was a very good friend of mine.

Well, that didn't work out, so I went home one day an I talked it up with my parents.

First thing they said, I told you you should go live at the Y. You know that's where you're going.

That's exactly what they said.

So then I moved to the Y, and I can say I was never more happier in my life.

Now everybody tells me that the Y was the safest place for a young woman who's headed to the big city, to live.

Is that true?

That is true.

I'm concerned.

Miss Saunders, what about you?

Where did you come from?

I came from Altoona, Pennsylvania.

Altoona.

At that time was strictly, railroad.

And, I was, intereste in going to a business school.

Oh, we had business women among us.

Okay.

Well, the secretarial business.

Okay.

All right.

And, I chose Pittsburgh.

Not knowing anyone here, having any friends.

My parents picked the Y, for me.

There must have been something that parents trusted about the Y. Yes, I. But I was happy that they did.

It was safe.

It was a comfortable place.

And, we had great fun.

A lot of great young women.

So I was glad.

Be happy that they chose that for me.

Miss Hunt You were from the Cincinnati area there.

How did you get to here?

Well, I came fro a tiny little town outside of, Cincinnati called Lincoln Heights.

I hadn't lived there very long because my parents moved ou there when I was in high school.

Was in shortly after that.

I went away to school dow at West Virginia State College.

And when I finished with a degree in physical education, prior to our finishing, the head of our department had us to writ these letters to these places.

You didn't have resumes like you do now.

We made application directly, and there were lots of them.

California, South Carolina, all kinds of places.

I'm an only child, and I thought my mother was going to die.

It was one place to close this place that I could get.

That would be far enoug for me to learn to be a person by myself.

Was Pittsburgh.

There were a lot of people that had gone to West Virginia State College.

So that's how I came here and I didn't know where I was going to live.

But when I came, it was like over the Labor Day weekend and there was a lot going on on Center Avenue, and I was supposed to stay there, I suppose, maybe a couple of weeks and find a place.

But I knew I wasn't leaving because it was.

I just wasn't accustomed to all of those things that were happening.

I asked permission to stay, and they granted me that for a while.

Even though you were on staff, even they let you stay off.

And then when they made arrangements, the board.

So that would have to leave.

I announced that was going to go because I still wasn't ready for the big city.

Oh, was it like tha for you to Miss Hunt or you, you you impressed me as someone who was raring to go and see the city.

I was all excited.

And when I would look out my window and see people standing on the street, it gave me great concern because I wondered if they had a home because, I never sa anyone standing on the street.

Me neither.

and, you know, across the street from us was, celebrity club.

Oh, boy.

And we could look at the celebrity club, but our instructions was we better not go in there.

Another thing, coming from a small town like that, there was nothing to do.

No place to go.

Where you went.

You went to church.

If you went to church, you came home.

And that was it.

So will you come to Pittsburgh?

And you see all this?

You said, oh my goodness, this is the plac that I've always wanted to be.

So here I am.

Miss Twyman, you look in this picture, you look like you're ready, to go to the celebrity club or somewhere, but but this was actually a Y function, I think.

And you all dressed up.

Well, back in those days, you know, you couldn't go downtown to hotels, and many people had parties in their home.

And Mrs.

Lampkin was one of those persons who always entertaining at parties.

And she would call to the Y to ask if some of the girls would like to come to her parties.

And I never miss none that I know.

Miss Allen, you were one of the communit to be when you own the business.

And as I look at a lot of the pictures that you all have brought.

I see men and women, that were really dressed.

Their hair is all done and laid.

And I'm sure you had a number of people working for you in your shop, but but you were near the Y, and you helped keep everybody looking good, didn't you?

Well, yes, because it was the only big beauty shop at that time.

With a lady that were, that I was working with.

She sold her shop, and we didn't like who she sold to one of the madams.

So used to be on the hill.

We had a lot of madams at that time, and we had all those.

That's why your mom said you started walking, right?

Any girl who was very attractive, the pimps picked them up.

Well, I don't think they picked you up, you know, quite attractive here.

Well, what happened was that I actually said it.

The best thing to do was to get into the beauty business.

And when she sold the shop and she sold it to a madame.

And since I was the best beautician at that time in the shop, she always came to my chair, no matter who was working on it.

Had to get up because she owned it.

So of course we couldn't stand that.

And I finally found a place that I could open a shop, and I did open the one when we decided to call it your House of beauty, because they were already on the market name.

House of beauty.

Miss Carson you seem to be remembering that remember you would go some time?

No, I didn't, but I knew about your house of beauty.

I went to the beauty shop up on Bryn Mawr Road.

Myrtle Duncan had one and I went to her.

Okay.

Miss Martin, you were on staff at the Y, right?

Yes.

What was it like for you as a staff person?

Were you all full of.

I saw one picture, said Ma saw you with these a lot of mother hens who guarded these young women or what?

Well, Miss Snowy was a housemother.

And she really took care of these girls.

She was really interested that they didn't get into with the wrong company, that they had the right food, that they had clothes that they had, they had some money they didn't have to worry abou starving or anything like that.

She was a very good housemother.

Part of my job was to help her in counseling the young adults.

At that time I was the young adult secretary.

Downstairs.

Like someplace.

There was a plac where you could do some cooking.

Yeah, they allowed me.

Allowed me to cook and an and mother always cooked a food.

Yes, but the thing that she cooked that I like most were those cornmeal pancakes.

Oh, she's talking about corn patties.

Hot water.

Hot water.

I think the reason that I did that, when I got ready to go away, m mother took me to my physician for him to talk to me.

Doctor Clark.

And one of the things that he said, he says, now you're going to stay up too late.

A lot of times you're going to go some places that you shouldn't go sometime, and you're going to get int some things that you shouldn't.

But if you eat right three square meals a day, you will be fine.

So I don't think that Now, Mr.

Twyman did a little cooking in the room, had a hot plate up there.

I don't know if that was against the rules or what.

Probably.

Hey, will you do that?

Miss Martin, don't you remember you was doing room check or something, and you was knocking on doors, and we had been out.

It was in the afternoon, and we bought baked beans and wieners and, we heard her coming, and she was knocking on the door.

She says, somebody up here is cooking.

She said, but don't you smell them weenies?

We had bought a frying pan, you know, electric skillet.

And we took that skeleton, slid it under the bed with the food in it, yes, with the food in it and showing you how young people don't think we didn't have sense enough to realiz that you could smell the food.

See, all we knew is we was hungry.

We pitched in together and so we could have a meal.

And then when it comes to food, they tell me you all had meal tickets from the Y to go eat at the Crawford Grill.

Is that right?

Miss Saunders?

I had a meal ticket take it to grill.

I don't know how much they were, but we did have meal tickets to eat at the Crawford Grill.

Now Miss Allen has allude to some of the unsavory things that were going on in the neighborhood, but I understand they didn't call a Crawford Grill a bar at that time.

It was the Crawford Grill dining hall, and it sometimes it was even open on Sunday.

The people would go by the after church.

Is that right?

Well I don't know about on Sundays.

I don't know, that might have been later on, but I know, I eat my dinners at the Crawford Grill.

And, the rest I figure I could at the Y they gave, they saw that we had breakfast, couldn't we get breakfast and then they provided breakfast.

Well I got a girl, she lives up on the hill.

Well I got a girl who lived up on Hill.

You all were young and singl and I understand the young men would come a calling.

Is that right?

But but there was a parlor room that they had to come sit in an wait for you all to come down.

Yes.

Right.

The men were not allowed above the second floor and they were always dressed, it seemed.

Oh yes.

When they came to visit us they were dressed.

And even when we had.

Yes.

And when we had dances and Miss Martin, wasn't you responsible for chaperoning us at those dance Dances is about twice a month.

And, the young men would come in, these girls would com and they would have good times.

Sometimes they, we played a Victrola, sometimes we had, did not have the real music.

And I remember I don't know whether you remember Mr.

Mason or not.

He was.. Early Mason police officer?

He was a cop.

That was Early Mason.

He would come by and se if everything was going alright.

And he just.

You mean the police would come and check up on you?

Yeah.

He he was interested in protecting those girls at that YWCA, and I. I'll never forget his interest.

Really.

But, they many of these girls met their husbands and their boyfriends and actually got married.

I understand, Magistrate Fitzgerald married a lot of people.

The Courier even did a story on him.

I'm told by Frank Boland because he was marrying more people in a given time than some of the ministers.

And I remember Eunice Washington got married at the YWCA.

She had her wedding there.

And it was a wonderful affair.

We were all dressed up and all excited, and everything about thi wedding was going to take place.

You remember Maddie Adams?

Yes, I remember.

Maddie and Jim was married at the Y. Yes, that's true too.

And they were all dressed up well.

Oh, yeah.

Couple room downstairs were a fairly large size, and many times people had affairs there because, of course, like Geneva said, you couldn' go down to the hotels downtown.

Because of egregation, the Y and the W and the churches.

And I guess you didn't want to go to places like the Bailey and.

Oh, no, no you didn't.

Other places like that.

So the Y ended up being a haven for you?

Oh, yes.

And on Sunday we would get together and go to church.

And the little crowd that was hanging with me, we always went to central.

And Reverend Talley was a pastor.

And and you know, we know better.

We would wait till everybody was seated because we knew Reverend Talley was going to stand up there and say each and every Sunday, all we're so happ to have the girls from the YWCA.

You all made your entrance and you waited out in the vestibule to make the entrance so you could be introduced.

And we wanted all to be together.

Oh, that is amazing.

Now I understand that nightlife was also something, but you had curfews.

Oh, yeah.

And you had a night manager The name is Gurdy King.

That was extremely tough on get back in after curfew.

And how did you manage that?

Now, Mary had too many.

Oh, that was Mary, the one wh was laid off beside the mayor.

Mary had an active boyfriend who was there all the time.

Is this you?

I see what, all hooked up with this guy.

Is this you and, Yes, one of them.

Hey, are you there?

More than.

There are two pictures of you here.

And you.

You had a bunch of active boards.

Now it seems, there wasn't a bunch.

Just saw two, the one I married.

One that you did.

Thats my ex husband, right?

Now.

But tell me about the curfew.

Was it tough getting back in?

Were you late?

Did you have Did you have somebody come down and open that side door for you?

What?

Well, I have to confes that I did on 1 or 2 occasions, and one was my 21st birthday.

And I was out, past curfew.

And Miss.

King was very hard to get by.

So I called my roommate and the side door, she came down and let me in the side door.

But, knowing, Miss King, you didn't do that often.

You didn't?

I was just lucky enough that I, I understand also that when men came to call and a man told me this, I talked to some of my men friends, also, who came along in that year.

And they tell me when they came to call, not only did they have to be dressed, but they also had to show I.D.

and tell them where they were and things like that.

You couldn't come.

If you are loafing around and doing something and calling a woman.

Is it true to protect the young women and, Gurdy King dead about three years ago, and she was 104, 106.

And she really loved that Y She really loved those girls.

And she really put her heart in it.

When you look back on that, the staff, Miss Sawyer, Gurdy King, those folks who were running tantrums, you also on stamp and you have physical education.

Teacher.

Is that right?

So when I see these people in the in the pictures, in the shorts and you all are laying out there, we are just coming from class and then posing or what?

Well, I'm not sure abou those pictures, but we did have, we have classes with calisthenics and dancing and that kind of thing and that was part of my program and was Evelyn Forni was before me.

I think she also happened to be from Cincinnati.

That might have been some of the pictures that you saw.

The girls, a lot of them were active in skating.

They used to go way to Bridgeville, for skating and skating rink and center and one on center.

But I remembe Joanne Biggs was quite a skater, and I you know, I said, I can't think of her name.

I think that's her think that's a funny lady.

And I think that's her.

And I used to want to go skating with him so bad, because I had never had an opportunity to figure skating.

But I couldn't go because, you know, people work during the day and in the evening when you had program, you had to be there working.

So some of the fun things tha the girls did, I missed out on because I was on staff and I had to work.

And the fun that I had was they had the Savoy Ballroom that listen to the way she said the Savoy ballroom.

Yes.

So tell me about the fun you had and I would make sure that I was up in the balcony and I would go over there because I love to watch people dance.

And Martha can cut a rug.

Is that right?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, Martha.

Excellent dancer Yeah.

And, during those times you know, the ladies would wear prom dresses and the fellows would be swinging on morale and they throw them over their shoulder to the left and to the right, you know, and they'd bounce back on your feet, Did you just watch from the balcony?

Did you participate?

Oh, yeah.

Anything that I know I'm not good and I don't participate in what they tell me.

No.

You're a good bowler now.

Oh yes.

Oh yeah.

So how did this start.

I would go bowling on Dinwiddie.

Yeah.

10 page.

Okay.

And on Wednesday the men would all bowl I mean the ladies had a bowl league.

I can't remember which.

But I believe Wednesday's they had a bowling league.

Yeah.

They had leagues.

And so I change the day from when I was bowling because I didn't want to bowl with women all the time.

I wanted to see some fellows.

And I started going bowling.

And I met the nicest fellow, and he started by showing me how to keep score.

And he scored so well until I married him You are a pistol.

Bowling alley was, di the grandfather of the bowling alley that's now in Homewood.

We go bowling.

Oh.

Frankston.

Yes.

That's in there.

And yeah it's still a very nice facility.

Right.

Last time I was going, I was very nice.

Very nice.

If not, let' look at the staff for a second.

You've got a picture here of the staff and you in here too.

Also in the front in this ver nice dress with the polka dots.

And you made that dress at that time I was poor.

I'm so poor, everybody was poor but I was poor.

And you made your clothes.

I made that dress.

This next to me is Grace.

Grace Mweenge.

She's Grace Dowdy, now married to Richard Dowdy.

And then next to Grace is, Jane and Tatum.

She's married to Lenord Rainers brother Tatum.

I think he died recently.

And then next to her is Miss Sawyer, a good hous mother who didn't smile often.

No, becaus she had to keep things in line.

She had to keep things.

And she didn't want you to take advantage of her.

And next to Miss Sawyer is, the special.

Person She was just before.

And back in the back.

Here is Mary Brown, but, But but was the staf intentionally hard on the young ladies or were or were they really just looking out for their best interest?

No, they they looked out for their best interests.

They didn't want to have the reputation of being loose on the girls because they kne that women wouldn't come there, that reputation, that that's why your parents felt safe with you.

Go into the Y is that right.

Exactly what do you think it meant for you in starting your life, in those early years to hav that safe haven call the YWCA.

Well, let's see, knowing that I had caring parents, that was the beginning of it all.

They wanted my siste and I to, have a good education.

They wanted us to be somebody.

And they always instilled one thing in us that you respect people, people will respect you.

We come from a very good home.

Like she said, no money, but the love was there.

And by us having that love at home, my parents felt tha if you get out into the world, make sure that you try to know where you're going.

We want to know where you're going.

We want to know what it's all about because you never know.

One day when we just may come there.

Did they ever do that?

Oh yes they did.

And they came unannounced.

And when they did come on announced they were very happy with what they saw and they were happ with the people that they met.

Then they went back home.

They were they were satisfied.

They knew you in safe hands.

Parents will always coming to se about their children.

They didn't neglect and they didn't put them out in the street and let them go.

They still cared for them.

But when I first came to Pittsburgh, to the Y, I was a little disappointed that I shouldn't say that, that some of the things that the younger ones were doing that I wasn't able to do.

I mean, I came here to work, I was going to school but every weekend, Friday night, I had to be on that bus going back to Belle Vernon.

Oh, you you wanted to stay in Pittsburgh?

Yes.

And you passed down stairs where they were dancing.

and playing games.

And here I a with my little suitcase packed.

I'm on my way to Belle Vernon.

You wouldn't wait for Sunday night to get here so that I could get back to find out.

Well, the thing about it was, I played for my church, and my uncle was the choir director.

And it was this.

You must come home.

And up until the time that I got married and I was past 21, you must come home.

When they said you must, that was it, you know.

And you never did say your prayers.

Well, I'm not going to do this, and I'm not going to do that.

When they said, you do this, you not will you do it?

You do this.

So we did it, but it made me far the better person.

There's a lot we could learn from that.

Or I guess maybe that's one of the purposes of doing a program like this just to talk about the things, the way things were.

When I look at the picture again, I see a certain elegance, about wha you did at the party.

Pictures.

It seems as though whether I see a Christmas tree in the background or it looks like just a regular party that you might have been having simply because it was Friday.

Everybody looks a certain way all the hair is done, the minidres they have ties on or nice shirts and everybody's dressed up.

There's a certain eleganc to this period in the Sundays.

Yes, there was all of us.

Well, we were taught that at home before we came there, and it wasn't hard.

And following throug from the way we were instructed in things we did at the Y, it was just part of our growing into, mature adults.

I said before, I seem to see a lot of pictures of you in the lounge, you with and enjoying the parties that might have gone on till Miss Carson was.

She missed at the party.

You know what?

She missed the party.

Did you hear me on Sunday night?

When she got there, she found out.

And when she got back, she was leaving at the time, the parties.

And they were great Yeah.

I don't know were we that probably.

I don't think.

I don't think sometimes I say it back just to get away with my men, the many women met their husbands there.

How did you meet your husband?

It was the combination of any of those events.

When I would leave the bowling alley, you know, we had to be in, wasn't it?

12:00?

Yeah.

And so when I'd strike out to get back home, he would say, I want to walk you home.

So he started walking me home.

And the next thing I kno he was coming through the door coming to visit.

And now when we would go ou we would always he would always take me out to Oakmon because that's where he grew up.

And he loved Oakmont.

And he would take me to Oakmont and this is what I'm saying about tell him the truth.

You can tell the truth.

And you know you're telling the truth.

And folks won't always believe it.

Because every time we went to Oakmont, I don't know what kind of tires he had, but they would become flat over, you know, again, you know?

So I'd have to call and say you know, maybe a little late.

We got a flat tire.

And it was sort of embarrassing because you knew was telling the truth.

But every time it was a flat tire, having Miss King swallow all of that, well, they made a range.

It was.

They were loving and kind, like Miss Allen.

Just going to her shop, because when you went to her shop she knew what was best for you.

And she took time, and she fixed you up in, you know, she just had a caring way about her.

It seems the whole neighborhood had thing.

Oh, yes.

Yes.

Oh, yeah.

What accounts for that?

You think, Miss Allen?

So many business owners like you who, also took these young women under the umbrella to help them all.

At the time we did do that.

Well, a long time ago, we were the first ones who went to, modern school.

Not because we couldn't model, but the idea.

We want to know how to dress an how to behave and all of that.

So we could teach you young people.

And, of course, I' a lot older than these people.

And I was happy to have them come because to me they were the cream of the crop.

You didn't have trashy people coming i and they didn't come in my shop.

I didn't, I just had people like them.

And you set tha kind of standard to people?

Yes.

That you had standards in their shop and they didn't come in.

So, of course I did have some of the girls, but they were very nice when they came in because they had the money, we would all go up to the Crawford Grill because you would go through and you would sit in the back, and they've always had a great music and band and no, we would eat our dinner and enjoy, you know, and got it right up and left.

Right after that.

Right.

That's right.

I bet you stayed there for a long time after the dinner was good.

We had good company.

And another nice place to go when you.

Wasn't it the girl we went to Nesbit's.

Oh, no.

Yes.

The food was just excellent.

It was excellent.

And, so we spent a lot of time there too.

Was no music, but I don't know, it was just the friendship was there.

And you got to know everybody.

You've raised an interesting issue of friendship.

It seems as though, I know you all may not be in contact on a daily basis with one another, but just sitting here and talking with you, I can see that you all had a good time then, and you have a good time now.

And the friendshi is a very important part of this is that right, Miss Martin?

Yes.

It's really it's, I remember taking girls up to the YMCA.

I was at that time, I was the liaison person in between the YM and the YW.

and we would go up on Thursday nights.

They had swim nights an the girls would go up and swim and, they, they enjoyed it.

The boys, the men at th Y enjoyed it, but it was well, as my friend say, I was chaperoning it.

So it was work for you.

But, Over the years, we have been friends.

Yeah.

When Martha got engaged, I had her up to my house.

Patsy and her sister, we're still friends.

Patsy.

Who do you call?

Oh, that's, that's that was called pots was so funny.

Okay.

All right.

And then see number one and number two.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

He.

I thought she was a pretty lady.

She was very beautiful.

Her skin was glowing and everything.

And not only that, she had a sweet disposition.

She was easy to get along with.

And she always wanted to know, can I help?

What can I do?

I'll do it.

And speaking of, I do.

When we were looking for, place to live, and I kept saying, you know, t our let's go find an apartment.

You know, I wonder, I mean, after you'd gotten married.

No, we were getting we hadn't gotten married, but I wanted an apartment, and I thought we should get an apartment and get it together.

So when we got married, you know, we' have a little nest, and, so we.

He said all.

We don't need to do that right now.

There's plenty places available.

So this one day we decided to go for a walk and he said, let's look.

And we started looking and we went to this house and it's it's rooms for rent.

So we got up and knocked on the door and the lady came to the door and she said, can I help you?

And we said, yes, we'd like a room.

And she says, for how many hours?

She said, for how long?

And we said, oh about six months, 3 to 6 month.

She says, oh, I don't do that Rooms rent.

But, that's when I was hired to come.

Yeah.

So then I called Mary and I says, hey, Mary, if you hear of any place let me know.

So then, Mary, wher Mary in Arrowood was a living, there became apartment available there.

So Mary called me and I, we moved there and then we was hooked up as couples.

And we had fun there.

Yeah, because Geneva and Art, stood with me.

I got married before she did, and they were with me when I got married.

You told me a long time ago about when you were living together as couples, about something you did in your landlady.

Oh.

The landlady.

Marianne, I would get up every morning.

We thought it was our duty to get up every mornin and fix our husbands breakfast.

We had no problem with that.

But the landlady, she had a meeting with us.

And she sat down and told us tha she did not want us doing that.

Because if we continued to d that, her husband was a suspect.

And she was.

They committed modern day women.

I agree with that.

Mrs.

Martin, you wrote a poem about, friendship.

Oh, is that right?

Talking about friendship.

Talking about friendship.

The golden thread, the golden thread of friendship.

It links us together in happiness, peace and love.

It joins us together when we hit bottom.

It soothes when dark shadows of sorrow visit us.

It weaves a blanket of security against loneliness.

It brings joy fuzed with serenity when reminiscing.

It binds us together in unlimited ecstasy when we are on top.

The golden thread of friendship, this essence of life.

And I think of you as my friends Thats sweet.

That is nice.

It's very nice.

I guess it's great to look back and, keep those memories in mind.

But what does it say about not only our history, but our future and maybe some things that we might have lost over the years.

Miss Twyman, what do you think when you lose truth, respect for yourself, how can you respect somebody else if you don't have it for yourself?

Well, in those days, there was a sort of, let's say there was a different class of people.

They didn't mingle.

Well, they do that sort of thing.

I mean, as far as dope or anything like that, I didn't know anything about it.

And, I mean, we knew there were alcohol.

There would be, there were.

But they didn't come in contact with anything like that.

And the only reason I did because I was down on the hill, but then we didn't associate with them.

There was a different class, and everyone knew that.

You just didn't associate.

People have noticed through the years is that years ago, people that really wanted to be somebody were not harassed by those who did not.

No, no, no.

And working with the public schools, I watched the transition from the tim when the kids who wanted to be somebod stayed on one side of the room, and the kid who did would stay on the other.

The point when those who didn't care would come ove and actually see if they could, so to speak, mess up those that were on their way.

And and this is what I find now, is that there's not a dividing line.

It's just kind of muddled.

And if you are trying to be somebody, sometimes there are those who will try to make sure that you don't get there.

Yeah, well that was definitely a dividing line.

There was.

But it's it's not that way.

Now, another thing, I think some of the values of the older people have changed too.

In what way?

They used to be.

Well, there was discipline.

There was so many different things that how would I put this that, you raised your children a certain way.

This wasn't out here today.

Parents are working.

Some of them don't care what their children do.

They're not even listening to their children.

That's another thing.

They are not listening.

If more parents would take time to listen to some of the thing that the children have to say, this would make a far better world.

Be they right or be they wrong.

If you're wrong, then sit down and tell me why I'm wrong.

Don't come to me and say I want to say something to you.

And the first thing you say, I'll see you after a while.

Come back later and we'll talk.

That's not the time.

The time is now.

It was this when you were young, when your parents said, you've got to be home.

Because we need you to work in the church and play music.

While I was there, you were there.

Why?

You didn't stay at that point.

And if we went out to play up the street, when that light went on, that street light went on.

You better be now.

That's what they would tell you.

You better be.

They have lost their sense of value.

But we've lost a lot more than that.

You all.

And I've heard the stories before.

You know that if you were going down the street and Miss Allen was running her busines and it stepped out of the door and saw you doing something wrong, you knew she would chastise you as a person of responsibility in the community.

Not only that, she had license to call the Y or your mom if she knew them and tell them, nowadays we're afraid to say something to our own children to do something about this.

But she's become a part of our children like that.

Don't you think that it's.

We are the cause of this ourselves?

Absolutely.

And I'm asking you, what do you think accounts for the changes?

As people who lived as women, particularly, who might have been directed to get married or, or become a secretary or, what was this?

What were the other choices that you gave you?

You respected what your parents and what elders told you?

You've told me stories of miss Daisy Lampkin and how she would provide further training for you.

Because you would be hostesses at her teas and affairs.

That you you would do these kinds of things.

Nowadays a lot of that does not happen.

Well, I hope I'm not wrong in saying this, but children raising children, that's that's the main thing.

Children raising children.

It's babies having babies.

They don't know.

And there's no one to teach them.

Is there a way that it can change?

You think, well, have we gone too far?

Could we ever go back?

I don't I don't ever think that we go too far.

I always think that there's a way that I don't know what that way is, but there has to be a better way, because what's happening now, they're going up the world backwards.

And, Chris, you know, sometimes I think people put too much emphasis on a dollar because, when I was young, I at the age of 18 I says, when I get to be 42, I'm going to have all the money that I need because I'm going to save.

But what nobody didn't tell me that I had to pay for bills.

Yes, you do, because I had two jobs.

And when winter time would come, I didn't work.

January, February and March.

I stayed at the Y and read books.

You know.

You did read a lot.

Yeah.

And yeah, I was thinking you the original party all over in the balcony at the Savoy.

But, you know, people need to learn that when you reach a certain age, you are responsible for yourself.

And you see, if you're living at home with your parents, you owe it to them to pitch in and help.

Yes.

You know, housework is no easy job.

No.

And I don't know how they expect what woman to do all the thing that have to be done in a house and where to nowadays.

Oh yes.

Oh yes.

Well let's, let's go back to this era just one more time and see if there's something that we can learn from that.

You had so many people around you who wouldn't let you do wrong.

It seems that, from, folks like Miss Allen, to Daisy Lapkins.

You show me pictures of the Teas Miss Martin and the programs she directed.

And, of course, Miss Hunt kept you in shape, exercise and physic.

And, it seems to me there was more a sense of not only the elegance of the time and the way we dressed, but a sense of community.

That said, we will not let you go wrong unless you just want to, you dealt with the different classes, I dealt with, the different classes, and Everybody Miss Hunt says was respectful of that.

If you were trying to be somebody, they sort of saluted you and they let you go on.

Something is changed radically.

Were you known by the company that you keep, you know, those are simple sayings, but all too true, very true, very true to me.

I remember at the Y. Patricia Pratt's mother would bring her down, and she was this little girl with long thick plants.

Her mother brought her down to the Y, waited for her.

And to me, parents don't really give their childre that much attention these days.

And as you say, with jobs, they can't.

Some of them, they can't do it.

Some of them are just single families, and they can only do so much.

But I often thought of Mrs.

Pratt is coming down there with that little girl.

And look what that little girl is today.

Principal pianist fo the symphony here in the city.

Oh, you know, that happen with a lot of people.

When I came up, as I said, I'm a lot older than they are when we went to dance.

I know, I know, you're proud of your age.

I really I'm very happy to b as old as I am and still manage.

But, they used to bring their kids to the dances, and they sit up in the back and watch the kids dance and take them home.

They wanted them to socialize and have fun, but they weren't going to let them out there.

And they were with them brought them there and stayed.

And there were so many parents that did that.

And I thought it was wonderful, and it was more than we'd do today.

Of course, we don't have the kind of dance and things that we had before.

I mean, that.

Miss Twyman and was getting thrown over her husband.

So, just grab some things.

Yeah.

Let me ask the three of you who were residents there.

What were your fondest memories of that time as you look back at that different time and, an young girls from, the country.

Excuse me?

Because I'm from the country to come into the big city to do things.

What were your fondest memories of being around the YWCA on on Center Avenu and maybe the community?

To Mrs.

Tyman, would you start, please?

Oh, I love the community because, I could walk down one sid and up the other side, and and, I remember when we had, it was a cold winter and I'm walking down the street and everybody was just waving, but.

And, I was wondering why they were waving, but what was happening?

It was cold out there, and I was smiling, but I wasn't smiling because I wanted to smile.

That smile was frozen.

But it was just the kindness.

And I remember, sitting at the drugstore talking to Mr.

Fitzgerald, talking to Mr Moore, Muggsy Moore, talking to him just having great conversation.

And then I remember I ventured up on Wylie Avenue and up on Wylie Avenue.

There was a gentleman who had a soda fountain right across from Central Church.

His name was Ben Carruthers.

Yes.

I remember Ben Carruthers doing that.

And when I would go to Ben Carruthers, I would just go and I would, be sitting there and eating a Sundie.

But I was listening to the conversation of the people that was in there because he had this soda fountain, and you'd go in the back and he had books in there.

And do you remember when it was announced in the paper that he had been picked up because he was a communist?

And I remember I was so upset.

You mean ideas were expressed?

Thing was, there was thought, and free thought an and challenging of that thought.

There was a lot of it just wasn't a soda fountain.

That was the kind of place where a lot of ideas where.

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

And I would sit in there an I would listen and I still like, still living there.

I don't believe so becaus I think they have a book store.

But the point on the point wa it was a great place to exactly to broaden your mind.

Right.

So you had people coming i there from all over the world, Miss Carson, They say crossroads of the world.

Fullerton and Wylie If you wonder why I'm near you, Miss Carson.

For you.

Would you look back?

What were your fond memories?

Well, I really developed some of the fondest memories is that I made so many good friends.

They were friends then, and some of them are still friends today, and I. That's one thing that I have really enjoyed.

Then I remember, that I, appreciated, I should say, Mrs.

Magdalena Johnson.

They had this shop he took pictures and she played and sang.

And one day she called me.

Yes, yes.

And one day, someone was to play for her, and they didn't show up.

And I don't know who it was.

Said, we'll make Mae Talbot.

She plays.

That was my maiden name.

She plays She came over to the Y, and she.

I said I was nervous, you know, and I said, oh, I don't thin I'm going to be able to do that.

And she said oh yes, you can if you want to.

Just look at you.

And I said, well, if you think I can, I can.

And sure enough, I did.

She paved the way for me to do a lot of things where music was concerned.

And I'm still in the same field today.

So those are some of the things that the Y has really meant to me.

That encouragement must have really been something to know that you could.

Yes, yes.

Miss Saunders, what about you?

Well, I cherish the friendship of a lot of the young women that I lived with.

It was great.

We had great times, some you'll never forget.

You get a better sense of responsibility and caring and respect and people from, living with a group of young ladies like that.

And then all the merchants on the avenue, you know, the bank, right?

There was a two studios, Lee's floral shop and the bakery and beauty shops.

And all of the merchants just knew all of the, you know, young women.

And you just felt safe, as Geneva said, you could walk up and down the street.

You just had a, sense of security.

And I really enjoyed today's at the Y I think I always remember this, well, as the three peopl who live there and, of course, all the rest of you who either were in the community or work there on staff and may have lived there some too.

I just want to thank you so much for being here with us to celebrat a little bit of black history.

I appreciate all the photographs that you have brought, and I hope that our audience has learned a little something that probably a lot o other people who live there say, I live there too, and I remember them and and I hope you just brought back some fond memories.

And maybe we've learned something about today's time, too, through the course of this discussion over the past hour.

I thank you for being here with us.

Okay.

Thank you for having us all right.

I'm Chris Moore.

Thanks for joining us in our audience.

We do appreciate it.

And we hope that you will continu to celebrate Black History Month and all the programs that are out there.

All you have to do i look for them.

They are there.

I'm Chris Moore, thanks to all of you for being with us bye.

The birds with feathers of blue is waiting on you back in your own backyard.

You see your pencil and space through your window pane.

Back in your backyard.

Oh, you can go to the east, go to the west.

But some days you come weary at heart.

Back where you started.

From your.

Find your happiness like right under your eyes.

There in yout own backyard.