>>Just ahead on American Black Journal, a proposed redevelopment will give new life to the former Fisher Body Plant in Detroit.

I'll talk with the African American developers behind the huge project.

Plus, we'll look at the efforts to reverse an alarming rise in maternal deaths among women of color.

Stay right there, American Black Journal starts now.

>>From Delta faucets to Behr Paint, Masco Corporation is proud to deliver products that enhance the way consumers all over the world experience and enjoy their living spaces.

Masco, Serving Michigan Communities since 1929.

>>Support also provided by the Cynthia & Edsel Ford Fund for Journalism at Detroit Public TV.

>>The DTE Foundation proudly supports 50 years of American Black Journal in covering African American history, culture and politics.

The DTE Foundation and American Black Journal partners in presenting African American perspectives about our communities and in our world.

>>Also brought to you by Nissan Foundation and viewers like you, thank you.

(relaxing music) >>Welcome to American Black Journal, I'm Orlando Bailey of BridgeDetroit sitting in today for Steven Henderson.

A long abandoned auto plant in Detroit could soon be transformed into housing and retail space.

The old Fisher Body Plant Number 21 in the city's Milwaukee Junction area has sat empty for nearly 30 years.

But now, a team led by two African American developers is planning to convert the 600,000 square foot plant into more than 400 apartments along with commercial and coworking space.

The City of Detroit owns the property and the project must still be approved.

I spoke with the developers heading up this massive project, Gregory Jackson and Richard Hosey.

Listen, I'm really, really excited to talk to you guys about the new Fisher development that's making headlines all across the city and state.

But I'm really interested on learning how the two of you decided to come together and partner to take on such a massive project.

>>So it was particularly interesting because we just struck up a conversation on Memorial Day, I think it was 2018.

And Greg talked about us partnering together.

I told him, "I'd love to if I felt like it was a great honor."

And we tried to think of... started talking about projects that interested us, and I said, "The Fisher Body."

And he said, "I was thinking about Fisher Body."

We had both been independently riding past the building thinking about what it could become and it went straight from there.

We went right into to talking about how to make it work and figuring out the numbers on it.

And so, we just happen to be in the same place for Memorial Day.

>>Wow, that's pretty amazing.

Hey, we had a Memorial Day gathering.

Hey, let's figure out how to dream about, and I don't even know if you guys do this.

The biggest development project for black developer in Detroit history with a price tag of $130 million, $130 million.

So how is the performance and the financing coming together for this, Greg?

>>It's coming together good.

We're pretty much done.

We don't have a complete bow on it.

We don't have every I dotted, every T crossed, but we're very, very optimistic that in the next 90 to 120 days, we'll have all of that done.

So we're feeling very, very good about everything.

>>Awesome, Richard, there are still some approvals, of course, that are needed to move forward.

The city has to actually sell the building and there are some council approvals and things, some additional hurdles that you guys have to get through.

How confident are you in the building sale actually happening and all the approvals going through?

How much are they selling the building for if I could try to get the price tag on it?

>>So it still has to be laid out with the evaluation of the building and its current condition and the surrounding land.

And so, we're locking that number in.

In the press conference, the mayor said, "It'd be 1 million or below."

And so because of the condition of the building, of course.

So that'll be locked in.

We feel very confident that after conversations with City Council that they'll see the impact and feel comfortable approving the sale.

But the first step is going out to the community and getting their buy in and approval and understanding the... explaining the impacts of the project, the positives, hearing their concerns about any potential negative impacts of the project and how do we offset those?

So before we get to the City Council approvals, we go to the community and get all their... make sure they're heard and come to the community benefits agreement.

>>It's really cool to hear developers talking about the community engagement strategy.

I think a project of this size and magnitude actually triggers that community benefits agreements ordinance that was enacted a few years ago.

So what does that process look like for you all?

Are you guys beginning that now?

The neighborhood advisory council, is it being set up?

And what sorts of things are you looking to hear from the community to be implemented in this project?

>>Yeah, that process is starting right now.

We expect to have it completed hopefully by the time we get to June maybe, somewhere in there.

There's eight to 10 meetings that are associated with that.

I'm not sure what we expect to hear from the community.

What's interesting about this community is that it's largely a business industrial community.

There's a greater census track, I believe, that we reach out to to the north, which is called the North End, which used to be very dense, which is very sparse right now, so there is some housing attached to that.

I'm not sure exactly what we will hear from the community as a whole.

Our expectation would be that the community would be excited about getting rid of a building that has been part of Detroit's ruin porn for so long that the community would be excited about reactivating a neighborhood and bringing housing into it.

That the community and the city as a whole would be excited about the prospect of not spending somewhere between... our estimates are 10 to $25 million to have to tear down a structure which would come out of the city budget.

And instead of spending that money out of the city budget, now that money can be allocated toward other developments and community projects around the city.

Plus, obviously, taking a building that has not been on the city tax roles for many years and restoring it to the city tax roles.

So we would hope that the community would feed into all those positive things and join us in celebrating this and getting it across the finish line.

>>Yeah, I don't think we can overstate how exciting it is to see two African American developers working on such a monumental project.

One of the things that right now is in the ethos is the rise of construction costs and the conversation around getting black-owned and Detroit-based talent and contractors.

What does your purview and management strategy look like given those caveats, Richard?

>>So that's one of the things that Greg and I myself and our partner, Kevin Lewand, we always, from the beginning, felt very comfortable with.

We've always tried to use as many Detroit contractors.

We believe in their strength, we believe in their expertise and we believe in speaking with them about any areas that would be a barrier to them being on or a project of any size, and helping remove those barriers.

We found that to be a successful strategy from a business perspective and not just from a community or a social perspective.

So when the solution to one problem is the solution to the other, then that's perfect, and we were already doing that and that's what we'll do here.

>>I wanna ask this question of both of you regarding other up-and-coming African American developers in the city who are looking at this project essentially as a North Star to aspire to.

Can each of you sort of talk about how you guys see yourselves as black Detroiters and developers and how you're holding the door open for those who are coming up behind you who want to do a project of this magnitude one day in their city?

Greg, we'll start with you.

>>I guess I would say it's important for everyone to, black, white, green, no matter what the color of the person is.

Excellence is excellence, and irrespective of your color, I think you just need to be excellent in what you're doing, how you present yourself and how you do the projects that you do.

We see this less as a North Star for black people.

Some are trying to hold it up as that and I guess that's okay.

But we really look forward the day when that label isn't put on our excellence.

To some extent, it almost sounds like it diminishes what we're doing as if somehow African Americans can't do the same thing that everyone else does.

At what point are we tired of being a good black developer, a good black doctor, a good black dentist, a good back lawyer?

At what point are we just an excellent lawyer an excellent doctor, an excellent developer?

So I think we're happy if it encourages some other people, if it says to other African Americans that, "Yes, you can do too."

I think that's a good thing, while at the same time, I think we wanna be known less for that than we wanna be known for our excellence as business people.

>>Richard, we'll give you the last word.

>>Yep, absolutely.

So I completely agree.

And I think back to our initial conversation.

So I was honored that someone of great stature and business acumen was interested in partnering with me, and he happened to be black and I happened to be black.

But I didn't think, "Oh, even as a black person, he wants to partner."

I felt like it was a compliment of what I've accomplished that he would want to work with me.

And so that's the one of the interesting things I think growing up in Detroit and going to Florida A&M, you probably end up talking less about race when you're amongst yourself because we're just all black.

And so it just felt normal, it was just a business icon speaking to a up-and-coming developer about working together.

And obviously, when we open up to the broader world, then people speak more about us being black.

We were just talking about doing a great deal together.

>>Wow, and a great deal you all are embarking upon.

Greg Jackson, Richard Hosey, thank you for joining us on American Black Journal.

>>Thank you.

>>Thank you so much.

>>Turning now to some disturbing news from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Maternal deaths rose in 2020, the first year of the pandemic, and the risk was higher for women of color.

Pregnancy related deaths increased 23% among black women.

I sat down with Eboni Taylor from the nonprofit Mothering Justice to talk about efforts to reduce the maternal mortality rate.

Eboni Wells Taylor, welcome to American Black Journal.

>>Thank you so much Orlando for having me.

It's such a pleasure to be invited and especially talk to you, so I'm really excited about this conversation.

>>I'm excited to talk to you too, we go way back.

But you are the Michigan Executive Director of Mothering Justice.

And I would like for you to very briefly describe to our viewers what Mothering Justice is and what the organization does.

>>Absolutely, Mothering Justice is a statewide 501(c)(3), a public policy and advocacy organization.

We focus on issues that disproportionately impact mothers of color and among these issues, maternal mortality is one that is obviously critically important, and is really that issue along with three others that we're laser-focused on right now are all within our Mamas' Agenda, which is essentially our policy agenda, but we've put mama in front of everything.

So yeah, we focus on these issues statewide and I'm really happy to just be here to talk a little bit about maternal mortality and the importance of it.

>>Yeah, so there was a report release from the National Center for Health Statistics that highlighted a rise in maternal mortality rates with black women specifically being overrepresented by the triple digits in end of 2020.

Tell us what's going on and what are you seeing on the ground?

>>Yeah, absolutely.

Mothering Justice, prior to the pandemic, we've been in this work for a while.

We decided to add it to our Mamas' Agenda circa 2018, 2019.

This was right at the point where a lot of data was coming out around how black mothers and black birthing people were faring as far as giving birth.

And so this was really prompted by then Senator Kamala Harris who introduced Bills in cooperation with and listening to folks on the ground like Black Mamas Matter Alliance who Mothering Justice were a kindred partner of theirs.

But after we added it to our Mamas' Agenda, we then decided to do focus groups and to hear from sort of traditional spaces, from doctors, from nurses, but also listening to the holistic spaces like doulas and midwives and also mamas themselves.

And what we were hearing and what we were also just receiving unprompted from mothers is that they're not being listened to.

And we see this data, there are plenty of reports that revealed this very thing that mothers, that women, that birthing people are not being... black birthing people are not being listened to when it comes to their health during labor and delivery.

And it's so critically important to understand that point because we have had so many advancements, Orlando, in our health and healthcare systems and spaces, but black women are seeing the same numbers that we were seeing during slavery.

Even with the advancements, the one thing that hasn't changed is the apathetic attitudes toward black women and their families.

And what hasn't changed is the racism, which it shows itself when mothers aren't listened to.

>>And it shows itself in these numbers of black women being overrepresented.

>>Absolutely.

>>In this latest report.

When we talk about the rise in maternal mortality, of course, those mothers are no longer here with us to explain what that process looked like.

And let me ask you about what the intervention and advocacy strategy is on part of Mothering Justice to curb this trend?

And I got another question regarding the coronavirus pandemic.

These are numbers that directly, to me, correlate to the onset of the pandemic.

Are you guys seeing any correlations and what kind of intervention and advocacy strategies are you guys designing or implementing?

>>So yeah, I can speak to both of those things.

So pre-pandemic, like I said, black mothers were already in a maternal health crisis.

This country was already in a black maternal health crisis.

The black maternal mortality issue is actually dragging the United States' overall maternal mortality rate.

>>But we're lagging behind a lot of developed countries.

>>Oh yeah.

>>Yeah.

>>We are, we're absolutely lagging.

The United States has the highest maternal mortality rate among high-income countries.

And I believe that we're the only country that actually has a rising rate.

And so of course, as you might already know 'cause this number has been said so many times over, but the black maternal mortality rate for blacks and actually Native Americans too, which is another community that needs to be lifted up more often, but is two to four times more higher than our white counterparts.

And in Michigan, that number is actually closer to three.

So it's between two and four across the country.

But in Michigan specifically, it's around three times the rate of our white counterparts.

But like I was saying, this country, we were already having a crisis, the black maternal mortality crisis.

So the added shock of the pandemic certainly didn't help and it doesn't help, and it only further disrupted an already strained situation for mothers, for existing mothers, for new mothers, for birthing people.

So at a time when it was especially crucial for black mothers to have advocates in the room or more representation.

And these labor and delivery rooms, when we needed more people, we actually are receiving even less because you might already know Orlando, folks giving birth have been told, "Hey, you can only have one person in the room with you."

We're advocating for doulas, we're advocating for midwives and all the way up until this point when the pandemic hit.

So then to be told that, "Hey, you can only have your mother present with you.

You can only have your husband present with you.

You cannot have a doula, you cannot have a midwife.

You cannot have that additional support," it's sort of set us back a bit.

And then the part about what Mothering Justice is doing, at the local level, Mothering Justice is currently working with some amazing state legislators around a Michigan version of the Momnibus.

And I don't know if you're familiar with it, but it's essentially a set of 12 comprehensive Bills that have been passed at the federal level introduced by Congresswoman Lauren Underwood who is a U of M alum, Go Blue.

And she's a Congresswoman out of Illinois, but so she's been able to get this historic package of Bills that are meant to curb these numbers.

But Mothering Justice is actually doing something similar at the Michigan level.

We're also working with partners like Black Mothers' Breastfeeding Association, Birth Detroit to provide doula care to mothers and educate expecting mothers on things like birth plans and the power that they have to make decisions for the best decisions for themselves and their families in the labor and delivery rooms because a lot of our mamas, they come to us saying, "Hey I didn't even know that these things were even possible.

I just thought that when a doctor told me I had to do these interventions or take this or do that, that I had to do it."

But in actuality, you have a voice in those rooms and in those situations and around your body.

So those are just a few things that we're doing.

But we hope to do much more and we are going to do much more.

And really quickly, one last thing, we are releasing a statewide poll this year so that we can get a more accurate take on what mothers across the State of Michigan are experiencing in hospitals or what they're experiencing while they're pregnant and throughout their pregnancies as well because that's also an indicator of how well you do once you are postpartum.

So there's so much more to come but that's just sort of high level what we're working on.

>>Yeah, that poll that you all will issue along with this report, we know has far and wide-reaching impact upon the experiences of black women all over America.

But Detroit being the largest majority black city in America, we know that that issue may be even more prevalent.

And so we thank you for the work you do, and we can't wait to catch up with you again next time to hear about how Mothering Justice and the coalitions that you all are building are curbing these numbers.

Eboni Wells Taylor, thank you so much for joining us on American Black Journal.

>>Thank you so much, Orlando, it was absolutely my pleasure.

>>That's going to do it for this week.

Thanks for watching.

You can find out more about our guests at americanblackjournal.org and you can always connect with us on Facebook and Twitter.

We'll see you next time.

(relaxing music) >>From Delta faucets to Behr Paint, Masco Corporation is proud to deliver products that enhance the way consumers all over the world experience enjoy their living spaces.

Masco, Serving Michigan Communities since 1929.

>>Support also provided by the Cynthia & Edsel Ford Fund for Journalism at Detroit Public TV.

>>The DTE foundation proudly supports 50 years of American Black Journal in covering African American history, culture and politics.

The DTE Foundation and American Black Journal partners in presenting African American perspectives about our communities and in our world.

>>Also brought to you by Nissan Foundation and viewers like you, thank you.

(relaxing piano music)