>>This wee on NewsNight as an appeals court allows operation to resume at Alligator Alcatraz Florida opens a secon immigration detention facility.

Plus, the politics of publi health in Florida as the state pledges to do away with all vaccine mandates.

NewsNight starts now.

[MUSIC] Hello, I'm Steve Mort, welcome to NewsNight, where we take an in-depth look at the top stories and issues in Central Florida and how they shape our community.

The state of Florida is onc again in the national spotlight, this time over two key issues.

Florida last week started accepting detainees at a new immigration detentio site, dubbed Deportation Depot, at the unused Baker Correctional Facility near Jacksonville.

The opening of the new North Florida site comes after the DeSantis administration scored a court win in its effort to keep ope the Alligator Alcatraz facility in the Everglades.

And appeals court recently paused, for now at least, a lower court ruling that the site must be closed down.

Meanwhile, Florida has been making headlines for a completely different reason as well.

Last week, the state's surgeon general, Joseph Ladapo, announced the DeSantis administration would see to eliminate vaccine mandates, such as those in place in schools, and establish a Florida specific Make America Healthy Again or MAHA Commission.

I talked this wee about both issues with Kimberly Leonard, who writes the Florida Playbook for Politico.

And we started with vaccines.

>>It certainly ties in with what RFK Jr. has been saying.

It doesn't really tie in with wha President Trump has been saying.

In fact, he has been someone who has really tried to distance himself from what Florida is doing.

He pointed out that the vaccine work, that they've been around for a really long time and that he doesn't want to see a lot of people get infected, and he thinks that people should take the vaccines.

But Florida has been thinking about a lot of ways to align itself with the Trump administration and the Trump movement and the RFK Jr vaccine skepticism MAH movement is a big piece of that.

He has put his wife, Florida First Lady Casey DeSantis, in charge of this MAHA commission.

And with Ladapo, he has essentially given him, you know, the green light to go ahead and push for removing all vaccine mandates that he has the power to do.

And it won't be all of them because the legislature has to make that decision.

But this is all, it not just to send a signal to the Trump administration and to voters, but also to tell the legislature, hey, here's what we want to see have done.

They're going to start meeting next month.

And so he, we can expect to see him roll out a lot of other initiatives over the coming weeks.

>>What do we know about how lawmaker in Tallahassee feel about this?

And are they likely to face pressure from medical associations do we think?

>>The medical associations are definitely against what the governor is proposing, and they are very influential in Tallahassee.

They write big checks.

So that' just something to keep in mind.

But you know, they also care about not having patients come in with some of these illnesses that are very preventable.

And so, they're going to be pushing to make sure that the legislature doesn' take additional action on this when it comes to schools.

That's one of the biggest areas that the legislature, will be asked to change.

You know, the vaccine mandates when before you go in for your first day of school.

A lot of them that I talked to are very concerned.

They're already getting an earful from constituents.

They're getting phone calls from worried parents, and they don't really know what to do.

The legislature does sort of feel like they're in a tough spot, because they know the governor has a big microphon and he's going to be, you know, talking about this all over the state and agitating for it, sending text messages to supporters, putting a lot of pressure on them.

But, they're also getting pressure from voters.

So it'll be a very big part of this session.

>>I want to switch gears and talk about the other big Florida story, which is making waves well beyond the state.

Let's start with the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals decision, pausing for now at least, a lower court ruling that, Alligator Alcatraz must be closed down.

Can the DeSantis administration, do you think, take a victor lap on this, or is it too early?

>>Well they certainly can politically.

It's going to continue t make its way through the courts.

And I think that there's some acknowledgment that it's going to be a bit of a slog because they are opening other detention facilities.

And look, I attended every single hearing for, the initial court order that had, asked Alligator Alcatraz to wind down.

And there are a lot of concerns about the damage being done to the Everglades.

And the effect that that might have long term.

And so, yes, they can take a victory lap politically, but I'm not certain that it's something that long term that they'll actually want to keep up with.

This is extremely expensive.

It's going to be more expensive than the facility they'r opening in an existing prison.

And so, I could see them pivoting, although, you know, it is something that but fundraising wise and messaging wise has been very powerful for the GOP.

>>Well, you mentioned it just now.

Your colleagues at Politic have been writing about a second immigration detention site that is now opened in North Florida, in Baker County.

That's been referred t by the state as is Deportation Depot.

What do we know about that site at this stage?

>>Well, it's it's much smaller.

But it is a preexisting prison, so they don't have the same logistical difficulties as Alligator Alcatraz.

You know, you don't have to set up, you know, toilets.

You don't have to set up electricity.

All that.

They did have to add air conditioning because, that's federally required in these ICE detention centers, which I will add is not required in Florida prisons.

Which has been a a big, topic of conversation and in terms of human rights.

And what we know about the facility is that it is already in operation as of very recently, and that the governor is also considering opening a third facility in the Panhandle, which we don't have any information yet on where that might be.

But in terms of the legal case against Alligator Alcatraz, you know, one of the things the judge down here in Miami kept asking was, you know, why does it have to b in the middle of the Everglades?

Why can't it be somewhere else?

And, you know, as as the case makes its way through the courts, this is, you know, having other facilities shows that if that be, they can in fact, be housed elsewhere.

So I expect the plaintiffs to use that argument in the coming hearings.

>>Kimberly Leonard there from Politico talking to me earlier this week.

Well, let's bring in our panel now to break it all down.

Joining us in the studio this week, Stephanie Rodriguez from WKMG News 6.

You cover Osceola County over there at News 6.

Thanks so much for coming in.

>>Hi, Steve.

>>Really appreciate your time.

Beth Kassab editor of the Winter Park Voice.

Good to see you as well Beth.

>>Yeah, great to be here.

>>Thanks as ever for coming in.

And Skyler Swisher writes about politics for the Orlando Sentinel.

Good to see Skyler.

>>Thanks for having me.

>>Thanks for coming in.

Appreciate it.

Stephanie.

Let me start with you on this one.

News 6 has been covering the development on Alligator Alcatraz as well.

How has the DeSantis administration been responding to this rulin from the 11th circuit?

>>Well, as you can imagine, they're pleased with the decision.

You know, the AG sai that the decision put the judge that put the halt on operations in her place.

Those were his words.

And he's saying they're really going to start ramping up all of the immigration process there and deporting people.

He says that the facility can hold thousands of people, and they don't really need a lengthy legal process to determine whether or not they're here in the country illegally.

So they're ready to hit the ground running now that they can resume operations.

>>Yeah.

And up until that court ruling the facility been emptying out.

So quite a quite a turnaround.

You've been writing about Alligator Alcatraz pretty much since the start, Skyler, that appeals court decision is only temporary.

Right.

But do you agree with Kimberley Leonard there that, you know, it is a political victory for the governor?

>>I mean, we'll have to see how it plays out.

But, I mean, governor DeSantis and his supporters certainly seem to view it that way.

And you can kind of tell that based on this is something they love to talk about.

The Florida Republican Party is actually selling Alligator Alcatraz merchandise.

You know, you have his supporters actually going to the sign there at Alligator Alcatraz and taking photos, and he's getting a lot of, yo know, national press over this.

And as somebody who perhaps likely has presidential ambition, it's getting his name out with the base of the Republican Party.

>>I mean, the state, says it's also started accepting detainees right at Deportation Depot that we mentioned there in Baker County.

What do we know about the capacity?

I mean, Kimberly Leonard mentioned it was it was smaller than Alligator Alcatraz.

It still has quite a capacity, though.

And does the stat say this is going to be cheaper to run than Alligator Alcatraz?

>>Yeah, as a capacity, we kno it can hold up to 2,000 people.

And the state says it's going to be less mone than Alligator Alcatraz to run because, well, they already have the infrastructure.

There's already cells.

They can already get people through the door there.

And the state, the governor, I should say, said it's going to be about $6 million to get it up and running, which obviously would be a lot less than what it would take to get Alligator Alcatraz, which had no infrastructure like this old correctional facility does.

And of course, Alligator Alcatraz is going to cost at least 400 million plus a year to run.

>>I mean, presumably given that the federal government has been behind Alligator Alcatraz, that could be same could be said for any future developments here in Florida.

>>Well, that's what we've heard.

So far out of the federa Department of Homeland Security.

They are very much aligned with this effort.

As Skyler said, this is a huge political talking point where President Trump and Governo DeSantis are very much aligned.

The department, the federal department put out a statement, kind of applauding these facilities.

And again, going with the talking point of, urging people to quote self-deport.

>>Yeah.

What kind of pushback have we seen in recent days, especially from opponents of these facilities?

Also Democrats as well, presumably Deportation Depot is is just another step too far in their mind?

>>Yeah, we've seen a lot of pushback.

And one of the criticisms has been just the amount of taxpayer money that's being spent.

You know, it's estimated to cost about $450 million a year.

State rep Anna Eskamani.

You know she took issue with, the names.

You know, she called them childish.

She's saying that, you know we're we're essentially trying to make light of, a very serious issue of immigration.

>>Of course, there is, anticipated to be another, facility in the Panhandle, which I think, some people have called the Panhandle Pokey.

>>Yes.

That one that's been nicknamed the Panhandle Pokey.

And other state have started imitating Florida.

So now in Indiana, you have the Speedway Slammer and, Nebraska you have the Cornhusker Clink.

So, yeah, I mean, the Democrats are saying, you know, I mean, these are people, human beings that are being kept at these facilities, and we shouldn't be using these sorts of, nicknames just to kind of generate attention.

>>The.

Yeah, the economy has been i the news, of course, recently.

And this as, as you and I thin have discussed on this program, Beth, does have an impact o on the labor force in Florida, where we rely on migrant labor, particularly in areas like tourism and agriculture.

I wonder if there's any indicatio whether we're seeing any impact so far, the sort of hard line immigration enforcement.

>>Well, what I've read so far that the numbers show is that there is smalle participation in the labor pool.

So that's a sign that people are less active.

People are fearful of these tactics.

And it is, kind of rippling out into affecting some of these industries.

And that will be really interesting to se how that plays out in Florida, because Florida is so dependent on tourism and construction.

And essentially all of the industries that are most impacted by immigrant labor.

>>I did want to talk about one of the immigrant issue, immigration issue that I know that you've covered in depth, Stephanie.

And that's temporary protected status.

There were some recent developments, on TPS for nationals of several countries that have large populations here, in Florida.

Where do things stand at the moment?

>>So just last week, a judge in California ruled that the Trum administration's move to repeal TPS for Venezuelans and Haitians was unjust.

He said that it really lacked merit.

Of course, we know that the Trump administration, since February, right after they've gone to the president, gone to office, has been pushing to repeal and make sure that Venezuelans specifically, that's who they repealed it for in February.

Don't have temporary protecte status anymore, which, of course means that they can work and live in the States without having to worry about being deported.

So we can definitely expect a challenge from the government on this.

Even so, the judge ruled that it was unjust.

And, you know, immigration advocates say that TPS is necessary, especially for Venezuelans which we have a huge community of in Central Florida and all of Florida, because they say just going back to Venezuela under Nicolas Maduro is not an option.

>>Certainly a lot of uncertainty for those communities, large communities, as you mentioned her in central Florida, Venezuelans and Haitians.

So we'll see how the things play out in the courts there.

You can find my full interview with Kimberly Leonard from Politico Florida on our website at wucf.org/newsnight.

So let's talk about vaccines.

Before we do, here's Florida Surgeon general last week announcing his desire to do away with vaccine mandates.

>>Every las one of them is wrong and drips with disdain and and slavery.

Okay, who am as a government or anyone else?

Or who am I as a man standing here now to tell you what you should put in your body?

>>Joseph Ladapo there.

We're going to be talking about this more next week from a health and education standpoint.

But tonight I wanted to discuss the practicalities and politics of this move on vaccines.

And I wanted to start with you.

Stephanie there's been a lot of reporting this week on what this is all going to mean and how it's going to work.

Going to work.

News 6 has been looking at what this will mean for going forwards, in terms of which vaccines are going to be affected and when.

What do we know?

>>So we know that the process, the Florida Health Department has started the process to eliminate the vaccines, mandates that it can eliminate, which are just a few hepatitis B, chickenpox and meningitis.

But that won't happen until at least 90 days.

They started that process just last week.

So the mandates will stay as they are for now for those vaccines.

But there's so many other vaccines that the legislature would have to step in and remove the mandate for.

Some of those include measles polio, whooping cough and mumps.

Of course, the legislature won't meet again until January so that's still yet to be seen.

So that's where we're standing right now with that.

And of course, Ladapo has sai vaccines will still be available if parents want them, they just won't be mandated, at least the ones that they're able to get rid of right now.

>>Of course the legislature sits in January, but committee hearing are going to begin, very soon.

And we can expect, according to Kimberly Leonard, that to be an issue.

Your colleagues at the Sentinel will have been writing about this as well.

What kind of reaction have you been hearing?

>>Well, what we've heard from medical groups is, you know, they're definitely backing and supporting vaccines.

And, you know, experts we've talked to have said this has been, you know, one of the most significant, public healt accomplishments in modern times.

And, you know, they mentioned think about polio.

I mean, you had children crippled by polio.

And they're stressing, like, look, these are, preventable illnesses.

Like, no child needs to, suffer from from these diseases because there are effective vaccines that are available, from parents, you know, we've heard, kind of both sides from parents.

There are some people who say, look, I should have the freedom to decide what's best for my child's health.

It shouldn't be mandated by the government.

There are other parents that are saying, my child shouldn't be put in danger because some people don't want to vaccinate their children.

So that's kind of the feedback that we've we've gotten in our reporting.

>>I mean, do you agree with, with Kimberly Leonard that this is likely to be something that that dominates the the next legislative session and is likely to be a kind of fissure in Republican politics?

>>You know, it's shapin up that it will definitely be, an issu in the next legislative session because it requires, legislative approval, to remove these, vaccine mandates.

You know I think it's also worth noting that there are already are exceptions in place.

Like, you can get an exception if you have religiou objections, if you have medical reasons for not vaccinating your children.

You know how front and center the legislative leaders want to make this, I don't know.

I mean, I guess we'll have to see how that plays out.

You know, sometimes, for instance, the governor has called for open carry, allowing people to carry firearms.

And the legislative leaders really haven't given that, a hearing.

So we'll have to see how it goes.

>>We'll see how how much they, if they follow the governor's lead.

You guys have been, gathering reaction as well.

What have you been hearing?

>>Yeah, my colleague, Troy Campbell.

Troy Campbell talked to a doctor, and he asked the doctor point blank.

Do you think children will die in Florida because of this?

And she said, yes, she does believe that.

That's for many of the same reasons you just mentioned.

This is rolling back, illnesses that were eradicated through the vaccine.

She also mentioned children who can't get the vaccines for whatever reason.

Maybe it's a medical condition, maybe they have cancer and maybe they're undergoing chemotherapy.

They're also immunocompromised.

And now there's a possibilit that in some sort of interaction where wherever they may be, they could encounter another child who isn't vaccinated and has an illness that was preventable.

And then this child who is immunocompromised now is exposed to that disease, and they already potentiall have a life threatening disease.

>>Yeah, I mean, certainly a lot of discussion about this issue in our community and nationwide as well.

Next week, we'll have Central Florida Public Media's health reporter, Joe Mario Pedersen here in the studio to talk much more about this issue.

In the meantime, tell us what you think about vaccine mandates.

You can find us on social media.

We're at WUCF TV on Facebook and Instagram.

You'll also find us on X @NewsNightWUCF.

Okay, finally tonight, Florida steps into the redistricting figh playing out between Republicans and Democrats in Texas, California and elsewhere.

Florida Republicans say they want a mid-decade redistricting effort and are expected to take up the idea in the legislature soon.

Governor DeSantis is arguing for a mid-decade census, claiming the state was short changed the last time around, resulting in Florida getting fewer congressional seats than it should have done.

But critics, including Florida Democrats, have called this a manufactured crisis and say it's all simply a way to make it harder for Democrats to take control of Congress.

I spoke recently with Patrick Rickert a political scientis from Rollins College in Winter Park, about the broader redistricting push.

>>Mid-cycle redistricting is not altogether unusual, but it's typically happened in response to court cases and court challenges to maps that were drawn as part of the decennial, redistricting.

What's different about the current method of redistricting is i seems to be more, rhetorically and nakedly about gaining and solidifying a Republican majority.

And I think that is the exact same mechanism that's driving DeSantis' hope to get some additional Republican seats in Florida.

Just like they're trying to in Texas.

>>Well, I wonder how successful these redistricting efforts might be in solidifying a balance of power, particularly in Washington.

If Texas does its thing, California does its thing.

Florida does its thing.

I wonder where that leaves the parties.

Do we have a good feeling abou who comes on, comes out on top in that fight?

Republicans control more state legislatures that are in charge of districting.

I believe they have control in 19 state legislatures.

Whereas, Democrats only have control of seven state legislatures where the legislatur is in charge of redistricting.

In predominantly Democratic states.

There's been a push in the past decade or so to replace partisan redistricting with independent commissions and bipartisan commissions.

And so Republicans have fewer legal hurdles to get around.

Democratic states would have to repeal those commissions and then induce, a partisan process.

>>Patrick Rickert from Rollins College.

Okay, Skyler, let me start with you on this one.

And the demands for a reapportionment.

The governor argues that Florida's congressional map, I guess, is mal apportioned due to population growth.

Especially since the 2020 census and Covid, that would likely require another census, right.

Which the president I think is has backed.

Could that happen?

I mean, that's going to be a huge lift, right?

The logistics behind putting together a census are massive.

>>I mean, theoretically, yes.

But a census, it's not like fly by night sort of operation.

I mean, it requires a lot of work.

The planning for the 2030 census started in 2019.

Just to give you an idea of how much preparation goes into this.

>>More than a decade.

>>Yeah.

And, Congress would have to appropriate funding.

The 202 census cost about $14 billion.

And the other thing that could come up is you might have legal issues.

The Constitution says you have to count all persons, not citizens, persons, regardless of their immigration status.

So if you were to try to add a citizenship question, that could become a subjec of lawsuit, which was blocked, during President Trump's first, administration, he wanted to add a citizenshi question to the to the census.

>>Well, that's interesting isn't because the governo and the president of both talked about how they would like a census without undocumented immigrants in it.

>>Right.

And I'm not really clear on the endgame there, because they have stat and national government to run and these are people and families who live in Florida, and they use the hospitals, they use the schools, they use all the roads.

And what we're talking about is counting people.

So we know how many dollars to allot to certain places for various services.

And, it seems like the entire state could be shortchanged if there's an undercount.

>>Amid all this discussion over a mid-decade census, there were already call right in Florida for the state to join other states Texas, Missouri.

Florida House Speaker Danny Perez has indicated a willingness to explore this, in the coming, legislative session.

Committee work as I mentioned earlier, begins in Tallahassee soon.

Do you think this is going to be an issue for lawmakers?

They'd be hungry to do this?

>>Absolutely.

I mean, Speaker Perez has already said he's going to set up a select committee to look at redistricting.

The governor said that he's spoke with people in the legislature.

And, they've indicated that there's an appetite to to do a redistricting.

>>Yeah.

You cover Osceola County.

This could have a significan impact on Osceola County, right?

There's a pretty marginal district there.

>>Absolutely.

Yeah.

This would put you know, one of Central Florida's two Democratic congressional seats at risk.

And that's Darren Soto's seat.

And he covers part of Osceola County.

And he won in 2024 with 55.1%.

That shows you just how divided the area is along the political lines.

So a redistricting coul really swing it the other way.

>>That wa a significantly reduced margin right from from previous elections.

>>That's correct.

At least four, 4% less than wha he had recently previously run with.

>>Yeah, it's pretty significant.

We should remind viewers that while we talk about redistricting, for U.S. House seats, there is a decade redistricting effort happening locally as well, in Orange County.

And you've written about this, Beth.

What does that process loo like where we stand with that?

>>Yeah So it's in progress right now.

They're getting close to the finish line, but they're not there yet.

The short story is voters decided to add two more seat to the Orange County Commission.

So they'll grow from-- >>They decided that at the last election.

>>They did Yes, last year, last November.

And so it'll go from 7 to 9.

And, that's because the population is going up.

And so there's a need to reapportionment-- >>The same argument as on the state level.

>>Yes.

Same argument as on the stat level reapportionment districts.

The districts, the new districts will actually have fewer people in them by by a little bit.

And the idea is to spread out the representation.

So, Winter Park, Maitland, Eatonville, they might end up switching districts, which means a new representative, on the Orange County board, that would open up a seat for someone from one of those areas to potentially run.

But we don't know yet.

Two maps are still in play.

There could be additional maps added.

We get the impression this i still a very fluid process, but, you will see what happens in the next couple of weeks.

>>Do we know what happens, what the next stage of this process is?

>>Yeah.

So my understanding is there's going to be a county workshop next week, and they will be considering two maps that have been put forward by the committe that took a look at all of this.

And yeah, process has been a little confusing.

There's been a lot of maps They've gone by different names.

But the committee has put forward two.

I understand the county commissioners could alter those, could come up with new ones.

But, mayor Jerry Demings has said we you know, look, this committee has put in a lot of time.

Let's be respectful of their work.

But, you know, can't can't know the future.

So we'll have to see, see what they decide.

>>Well I'm really glad you're watching that subject.

And we'll put some links to your reporting on on the redistricting on our website, wucf.org/newsnight.

You can also find my full interview with Patrick Rickert from Rollins College there as well.

Again it's all at wucf.org/newsnight.

But that is all the time we have for this week.

My thanks to Stephanie Rodriguez, Beth Kasab, and Skyler Swisher.

Thanks so much for coming in, guys.

Really appreciate it.

Good conversation today.

We'll see you next Friday night at 8:30 here on WUCF.

In the meantime, from all of us here at NewsNight, take care and have a great week.