>>This week on NewsNight, Florida's Stand Your Ground laws are under the spotlight again following the shooting death Ajike Owens in Ocala.

And Ron DeSantis defends Florida's latest migrant flight from Texas as immigration takes center stage in the governor's presidential campaign.

Plus, Florida reaction to the federal indictment of Donald Trump.

NewsNight starts now.

♪♪ Hello I'm Steve Mort, and welcome to NewsNight where we take an in-depth look at the top stories and issues in central Florida and how they affect all of us.

Well, first tonight, a case that's prompted a renewed focus on Florida's Stand Your Ground law.

On Friday, a judge granted bond for a white woman, Susan Lawrence, charged with fatally shooting a black neighbor, Ajike Owens, through Lawrence's front door.

Police say it was the culmination of a years long feud between the two women.

It took several days for an arrest to be made.

The Marion County sheriff says deputies were unable to make an immediate arrest because his department had to first prove the use of deadly force was not justifiable under the Stand Your Ground statute.

Well, to explain more about how Stand Your Ground works, I'm joined in the studio by my colleague, Krystel Knowles.

Thanks so much for coming in, Krystel.

Appreciate it.

Just explain to the audience why this is a significant law.

What should they know about it?

>>Well, Florida was one of the first cases or states in 2005 to have the Stand Your Ground law.

It has a lot of resemblance to the Castle doctrine where you're able to use deadly force to defend your home.

Now, some states require that you retreat first before using deadly force.

But Florida and other states that use the Stand Your Ground law do not need to prove that and do not need to do any retreating before during the shooting.

Now, this all stemmed from a 2004 case where a 77 year old man shot an intruder and was worried that he was going to get arrested.

He never did.

But this law was created to help people in those cases.

Now, under this law, the shooter doesn't have to prove their use of force was justified.

In fact, it's up to investigators to have enough evidence that the law does not apply.

That's why it took Marion County Sheriff's office some time to make the arrest in this Ocala case.

Sheriff Billy Woods released a video on Social media explaining why the Stand Your Ground law does not apply to this specific case.

Take a listen.

>>Some of you have asked me about the Stand Your Ground law.

Personally, I think it's a great law designed to help Floridians to defend themselves and keep themselves safe.

However, it does not apply in all situations, and this situation is a prime example of when it was not justified.

It was simply a killing.

>>And of course, the law was changed in 2017, strengthened, in fact, to kind of change the burden of proof in Stand your Ground cases.

Krystel, why is Stand Your Ground so controversial?

>>Well, in Florida in 2012, the case of Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman, where the teenager was walking in the neighborhood and George Zimmerman, a neighborhood watchman, shot him.

Now, he was acquitted of second degree murder because of the Stand Your Ground law.

>>Is there evidence to support the criticism, Krystel, that sort of Stand Your Ground laws in Florida and elsewhere, promote a sort of shoot now ask questions later kind of situation?

>>A lot of people who are skeptical of this law are saying that these stand your ground cases and the ones that we're seeing recently and since 2005 that is actually pointing in that direction.

Now, another case worth mentioning is back in 2014, a 71 year old retired police officer shot a 41 year old man at a movie theater over an altercation over texting, and the man threw popcorn at him.

Now, it did take eight years, but the retired police officer was acquitted of second degree murder because of the Stand Your Ground law.

>>Well, thank you so much for explaining that and that kind of refresher on the law.

Really appreciate it, Krystel.

In the meantime, we'll be right back.

♪♪ Well, let's bring in our panel now to break it all down.

Joining us in the studio this week, Erik Sandoval.

He's an investigative reporter at WKMG, Channel 6.

Thanks so much for coming in.

>>Of course.

>>We appreciate it.

Skyler Swisher, a reporter at the Orlando Sentinel.

Thanks for coming in, Skyler.

Appreciate your time today.

And Talia Blake, morning host at 90.7 WMFE News.

Thanks so much for coming in, Talia.

Talia, I'm going to start with you on this one and the Trayvon Martin case in 2012 that really highlighted what was then a fairly unusual statute that we had here in Florida in the Stand Your Ground law.

But those laws have become much more common nationwide, right?

>>Yeah.

I mean, since the Trayvon Martin case, when Stand Your Ground was kind of put in the national spotlight, our Stand Your Ground law here in Florida about upwards of 30 states have some form of that law.

Now, it's not exactly like Florida's Stand Your Ground law, but it is some form of a stand your ground.

>>Some of them have is essentially an expanded castle doctrine, and others have something more similar to what Florida has.

Erik, I mean, the Marion County sheriff says that Susan Lawrence was not immediately arrested because she claimed self-defense, triggering the possibility that that stand your ground might apply here.

Why would that necessitate, though, a delay in this case?

I think four days.

>>Well, to to investigate the Stand Your Ground claim, it takes some time.

Especially, you know, you mentioned the start of the show that in 2017 the laws were basically made to bolster that law a little bit.

The threshold of proof was raised.

So Billy Woods, the sheriff in Marion County, you know, deployed his deputies, deployed his investigators, they had to do their job.

And in order to find out if if what you know Owens said or what Lawrence said was right, it takes time.

And I think the public needs to understand that the deputies and investigators need to do their job.

And it's not instant.

>>The burden of proof, right, is essentially on those that are trying to pierce that claim of.

>>Absolutely.

>>So that makes it a a tough hill to climb.

Skyler, I mean, Stand your Ground in Florida, as we mentioned there, was strengthened by the legislature shifting that burden of proof to the prosecution side.

I mean, how did the sheriff eventually determine that an arrest should be made here?

And what are the charges?

>>Yeah, so the charges are manslaughter, negligence, assault and battery.

And what the sheriff said was that they did more interviews.

They talked to the neighbors and to the children, and they determined that the shooter was the aggressor in this in this case.

He also made statements that she shot through a closed door.

So, you know, how could this be a self-defense case if she's shooting through a closed door?

>>Talia, I mean, Ben Crump.

Right.

Is is is representing Ajike Owens' family here.

He's called for stand Your Ground, the Stand Your Ground law to be abolished.

Does that sort of broadly represent the reaction from those that did oppose this law?

>>Yeah, I would definitely say a lot of people that oppose the Stand Your Ground law agree with Crump.

A lot of them say that this law is mistaken as a shoot first, think later when that's not what this law was meant to be for.

So a lot of people agree with Crump.

And honestly, Stand Your Ground, as it's been mentioned, has been under scrutiny since Trayvon Martin's death.

So it's not the first time that this has been called to be abolished.

>>Certainly received a lot of national scrutiny 2012.

Erik, the affidavit released before Laurence's bond was set revealed some of the details of this kind of years long feud between these two women, including the use of racial slurs.

And what do we know from that arrest affidavit?

>>Well, first of all, it took took a hot second to get this affidavit.

And there was a lot of mystery surrounding the details of what happened when we finally did get it.

You're right.

It did expose a feud between these two women.

But we also found out through the witnesses, which were a lot of the children who were involved in this, that Lawrence had been asking them to quiet down.

She was complaining they were too loud playing in the courtyard outside her home and that she actually that this is what the witnesses were saying threw roller skate at the chu - at the children, swung at one of them with an umbrella, that there was attempted violence towards the children in the moments leading up to this story.

>>Talia, your colleague, Joe Burns, has been has been covering extensively this case in Ocala, including a memorial, I think, that was held earlier this week.

Where the Reverend Al Sharpton made the point that he believed that if a black woman had shot and killed a white woman in similar circumstances, an arrest would have been made that night.

That is what the Reverend Al Sharpton is saying.

I mean, has race really become a central part of this story, do you think?

>>I think it has become a big part of this story, aside from just the Stand Your Ground law, that race is a big part of this, because even in the investigation, as Eric was talking about, when they were saying that Lawrence was throwing things at the kids, she also was calling them racial slurs as well.

So that was already a part of the story.

And then, you know, if you think about it, look at the fact that Ben Crump is stepping in to represent this family.

Reverend Al Sharpton himself has called Ben Crump Black America's attorney general.

Most times when Ben Crump is involved in a case, that case is involving some type of racial issue.

>>And, you know, it's a high profile.

>>Yes.

>>Those are the cases.

What do you think, Erik?

I mean, this is-- >>You know, just the and just as Talia, you know, very, very appropriately said Lawrence was heard using the N-word.

And that in of itself makes it a racial story.

She made it racial according to the witness.

>>And I'm sure all our outlets are going to be following this story very closely as the legal process moves forward.

You can find links to the Stand Your Ground statute and the US Commission on Civil Rights Report examining the race effects of Stand Your Ground laws around the country.

It's all at our Web site, wucf.org/newsnight.

All right.

Next tonight, Donald Trump's arraignment in federal court in the southern district of Florida this week.

While some of the former president's 2024 Republican rivals have expressed concern over his alleged conduct.

Others, including Ron DeSantis, are criticizing the prosecution.

I asked UCF political scientist Aubrey Jewett why that is.

>>For DeSantis, he's walking a fine line.

He knows that most of the Republican base and certainly almost all of the Trump supporters that he needs to try to pull away someday.

They don't believe these charges are legitimate.

They really do believe that this is a Biden administration partizan political witch hunt to use the term that they have often used.

And so for DeSantis.

He can't afford to look like he's a disloyal Republican, even though he wants to beat Trump.

And even though one of his main arguments about why Republicans should vote for DeSantis over Trump is that he doesn't have all this excess baggage, legal or ethical, and that he be the one to DeSantis would be the one that would be most likely to be able to win a general election.

But despite that, right now, he cant attack Trump because he knows the Republicans would turn against him in a heartbeat right now.

>>Do you think there'll be pressure on Governor DeSantis now to say whether he would pardon Trump if he DeSantis got into the White House?

Is that going to be a question that's going to come up a lot for the governor and other candidates?

>>I actually think it will, yeah.

I think that a lot of Republicans will be interested in that and the fact that we've already known that one of the things that people are interested in is what would a Republican president do with many of these January 6th protesters, rioters, insurrectionists who have already been found guilty?

Right.

Because that's been asked.

And Trump sort of volunteer, at least in a general way, that he might pardon at least some of them.

The big unknowable question right now is how much are Republican voters attached to Trump?

How much are they willing to put up with to continue to support him if this federal indictment continues?

If there's an additional indictment about January six, if there is an additional indictment about election tampering in Georgia.

And the next thing you know, he's got four criminal cases going up against him.

Maybe at some point he'll lose at least some of those voters.

Right.

He doesn't have to lose them all for another candidate to rise up.

So for DeSantis, right.

I mean, if you can have a swing of 15 or 20 points.

That's the difference between going ahead in a particular state and winning those delegates and losing.

>>Aubrey Jewett there.

Well, let's talk a little bit about this.

And I think it's interesting to note, of course, the second term mayor of Miami this week throwing his hat in the ring, Francis Suarez making three Floridians putting their hat in the ring for the GOP nomination.

Skyler, let me start with you on this one.

You've been covering how Florida Republicans have been responding to the arraignment of Donald Trump this week in Miami.

What have you been hearing?

>>Yes, So we went out and talked to some Trump supporters who took a bus trip to Miami.

There were several dozen people there.

One person told me that, you know, he definitely feels like this is political and he feels like Trump is the only person who, in his words, can turn America around.

I talked to another woman who says she feels like Trump is like her daddy protecting her and her community.

So his core supporters are not going anywhere.

They're still solidly behind him.

And the polling reflects this as well.

About 80% of Republicans said that they view these charges as being political.

>>And that's not new, right?

That's a pattern that you've been seeing in your reporting for some time.

>>Absolutely.

And when he faced criminal charges in New York, there was actually kind of a rally behind Trump effect.

He actually got some-- >>The indictment bump.

Right.

>>And it's also helping him with fund raisers.

He's able to get on national television and raise money.

>>You know, interesting.

I mean, Erik, Governor DeSantis says he's going to tackle what he calls the weaponization of the Justice Department and the FBI on day one.

If he wins the White House.

I think this was first reported by by Real Clear Politics, this this this particular policy stance.

What do we know about what the governor says he wants to do?

>>Well, it sounds like he's basically taking a page from the Trump playbook and which is drain the swamp, you know, get everybody out of Washington, decentralize everything.

And then, you know, part of DeSantis' plan, if he's elected as president, is to move the DOJ, move the FBI out of the perimeter there in Washington, D.C.

He wants to basically, in his words, tear it down and rebuild the DOJ.

And that includes, you know, erasing personnel rehiring some people who might be within his ideologies, but also with ideologies that he calls what the founding fathers would have liked.

>>And of course, critics of the governor say that in and of itself might be political interference in the justice system.

>>It could be.

>>Talia, I mean, the initial appearance was in Miami.

We saw that this week.

But what do we know about where this trial might take place going forward?

>>There's a lot of options.

The judge who is assigned to this case is out of Fort Pierce.

But that doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to happen in Fort Pierce.

It could be West Palm Beach, Miami, Fort Lauderdale.

But either way, it's going to be in this southern district.

It will be happening here in Florida.

>>I've heard some speculation.

There was a there was an article in The Atlantic this week talking about past the possibility of Jack Smith, the special prosecutor, bringing additional charges in New Jersey because possibly some crimes were committed in Bedminster.

So all kinds of possibilities going forward with the with the legal part of this puzzle.

Skyler, finally, I mean, we know that Donald Trump has had some difficulty assembling a legal team here in Florida to represent him.

But we do know about one attorney right on his team that says that has pretty deep ties to the Florida GOP.

>>Yeah, absolutely.

His name is Chris Kise, and he has a lot of political connections in Florida.

He's a former solicitor general under Charlie Crist.

He worked on the transition teams for Rick Scott when he was governor, as well as Ron DeSantis.

So definitely a very plugged in political guy.

>>Yeah, it's going to be really interesting case to watch.

And of course, it's all happening here in the Sunshine State where we never seem to have a dull week.

Be sure to join this conversation on social media meanwhile, we're at WUCFTV, on Facebook, Twitter, and also on Instagram.

Okay.

Finally tonight is Ron DeSantis runs against former President Trump for the Republican nomination.

The Florida governor is making a hard line position on immigration, a central plank of his campaign.

Florida recently flew more migrants out of Texas, this time to Sacramento, California.

Last week, Governor DeSantis traveled to the Texas Mexico border, where he addressed the migrant flight controversy and criticism from California Governor Gavin Newsom.

>>These sanctuary jurisdictions are part of the reason we have this problem, because they have endorsed and agitated for these types of open border policies.

They have bragged that they are sanctuary jurisdictions.

They attacked the previous administration's efforts to try to have border security.

And so that's the policies they've staking out.

And then what, when, when they have to deal with some of the fruits of that, they all of a sudden become very, very upset about that.

Well, what are these people having to deal with here?

>>Governor DeSantis there.

Well, California's governor has floated the idea of kidnaping charges over the Florida migrant flight.

But Arno Lemus, a Florida immigration attorney with youth co-op, says the legal questions are complicated.

>>When an immigrant is in ICE custody, ICE being Immigration and Customs Enforcement, they're they're subject to relocation based on the convenience of government, judicial resources and needs for housing.

So there is an argument to be made regarding potential kidnaping.

And I understand that line of thought, but there's a lot of justification that can be done on the other side where they can be arguing that they're relocating because of a need internally need attorneys that are going to advocate for these immigrants.

And there's definitely rights.

But but the rights are limited, and it's a little more that there's a lot of gray areas.

>>Arno Lemus, okay Talia, let me start with you on this one.

Florida's confirmed that it sent those migrants to California.

How has the DeSantis administration described its latest relocation effort?

>>So I want to first say that they didn't confirm it right away.

It took them a couple of days to even admit that they were a part of these migrant flights.

But they've said that this was voluntary and that the state is not doing anything wrong.

We're just trying to help people out.

And that's kind of the sentiment-- >>We did hear that also, after the flight to Martha's Vineyard, of course, as well.

Skyler, what do we know, if anything, about the companies that are involved in facilitating these flights?

There's been some reporting on that, right?

>>Yes.

So the company that we know the most about is called Vertol and it's a panhandle based company.

And there are a lot of questions, you know, how how did this get on the governor's radar?

How did this company land essentially a no bid contract?

And one of the links that was uncovered is that Larry Keefe, who is the governor's public safety czar, actually represented Vertol as a lawyer.

So there's a connection there.

So that's come out.

The owner is also given about $27,000 to the Republican Party and Republican politicians.

So there's been a lot of scrutiny on that.

You know, that company getting the contract.

We know there are two other companies that have been selected as vendors thats ARS and GardaWorld, but we don't know a lot about those companies because the records were heavily redacted and they cited trade secrets.

And it's really been a struggle to get information about the companies that are doing this work and getting taxpayer money.

>>Yeah a lot of journalists doing some some digging around on this issue for sure.

I mean, the governor of California gave a Newsom says he's he's visited with these migrants in Sacramento.

I mean, how has he responded to these latest steps taken by Florida?

>>Well, you mentioned it a little bit.

You know, at the top of the segment, you know, Newsom is basically said, you know, a lot of these migrants were misled in coming to California.

You know, they they were offered empty promises or false promises in coming to to California.

Newsom's even dangled the carrot that there might be criminal charges against DeSantis because of this that, you know, it amounts to kidnaping in some sense.

>>Yeah, it's probably worth looking at it through the lens that Newsom is a political-- >>I was going to say it's very political because Newsom is very much a Democrat and DeSantis very much a Republican.

>>Rumored have presidential ambitions himself, of course.

Talia, the governor last week visited the border.

We saw video of him there where he responded to Governor Newsom.

I mean, how does Florida defend its actions broadly?

>>Yeah, well, you kind of saw it a little bit in that segment when DeSantis was talking.

He kind of put the blame on more liberal states like California, saying, you know, they've made policies that encourage illegal immigration so they should pay for it.

So it's their problem.

It's their fault.

They they're making the problem worse.

Send them that way.

And it's actually kind of interesting because just recently, Texas governor just did the same thing, sending a migrant flight to California and stating the same thing.

You want illegal immigration or you guys have made these policies that are towards illegal immigration, so you should pay for it.

So here they come.

>>To Los Angeles.

And that is-- >>It's important to note, though, California also has a border with Mexico and they also have their own illegal immigration issue, especially in the San Diego area and farther south.

So it's something that they have been battling themselves for a long time.

>>Governor DeSantis refers to some of these places as sanctuary jurisdictions.

>>Yes, >>They should be the ones that that that take the bulk of the people that are arriving.

Skyler, the governor promised that Florida would support.

He's done this before.

Would support border enforcement efforts.

Remind us what Florida and other Republican led states are doing in terms of sending facilities to Texas and why they say they're doing it.

>>Yes.

So Florida sent about 1,100 state assets.

That includes 800 members of the Florida National Guard, members of the Highway patrol, Florida Department of Law Enforcement Officers, drones, a fixed wing aircraft.

And the reason they're saying that they're doing this is they're saying that they're accusing the federal government of not acting on the issue.

So they say there's no choice other than the states to get involved in and perform this.

>>Erik, we've talked on this program about the tough new laws impacting undocumented immigrants here in Florida that were passed in this session, including penalties, right, for knowingly transporting someone in the state illegally.

Your colleagues have been covering this right at Channel 6.

Do we know how that legislation, as it pertains to our state is being received so far in immigrant communities?

>>Not well at all.

There was a big demonstration here in Orlando where much of the Hispanic community came out, said this legislation is wrong.

Basically, the fear is that they're going to be, you know, racially profiled behind the wheel, that they fear that police officers, members of law enforcement are going to be specifically looking for them.

And if they're Hispanic, they're going to pull them over and they're going to ask if anybody else inside the car has their documentation and they're scared.

They're fearful.

They they say it's wrong.

>>And the business community as well in Florida is also voicing some concerns that this could have some impact on certain sectors moving forward.

Finally, Skyler, I mean, there's been some interesting reporting, right, about the intent of Florida's new law on immigration and how lawmakers in the governor's own party view it.

>>Yeah, I mean, there was a video that came out.

It's two South Florida state representatives Rick Roth and Alina Garcia.

And what they're saying to the migrant community is, look, this is just a bill designed to scare you.

It's all political.

It really doesn't have teeth.

And it really highlights the difficult position the Republican Party is in that they have to appear tough on immigration to their base.

But Florida is a state that runs on immigrant labor, agriculture, tourism, construction.

So they're kind of in a tough spot.

>>Piggybacking off of what Skyler was saying, the economists that I've talked to, when it comes to the E-Verify aspect of this immigration bill are also agreeing that it's having this kind of chilling effect because people are a little bit afraid to go to work.

People are afraid.

In regards to what Erik was saying, people are afraid like, oh, if I take my mom to the beach, am I going to get stopped?

And she's going to get deported and I'm going to have a felony charge on me, like there's so many different aspects of this bill that are just having a chilling effect.

But even when I'm bringing it back to the E-Verify, the economist that I was talking to, other states that have this wide, broad E-Verify system, the enforcement of it is very murky.

It's kind of all over the place.

So she's she the economist that I talked to was saying that, you know, even though this is in place, enforcement might not be there, so everybody might be okay.

But at the same time, just the fact that it's in place is going to have the chilling effect that we are already seeing right now.

>>Because the Republican leadership say this is justifiable because Florida is a receiving state for a large number of undocumented immigrants and the federal government is not doing its job, they say, in enforcing the border.

But that is all the time we have for this week.

Busy week in Florida, as usual.

And my thanks to Erik Sandoval, WKMG, Channel 6, Skyler Swisher from the Orlando Sentinel and Talia Blake from 90.7 WMFE News.

Thank you all so much for coming in.

Really appreciate it, guys.

We'll see you next Friday night at 8:30 here on WUCF.

In the meantime, from all of us here at Newsnight, take care and have a great week.