>>> COMING UP NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON: A LOOK AT THE CONSTITUTIONALITY OF PRESIDENT TRUMP'S IDEA OF HAVING COMPLETE CONTROL OVER THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH.

AND ALSO TONIGHT: FLU CASES ARE AT A 15-YEAR HIGH IN MARICOPA COUNTY.

THOSE STORIES AND MORE, NEXT, ON ARIZONA HORIZON.

>>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO ARIZONA HORIZON.

I'M TED SIMONS.

PRESIDENT TRUMP'S WHOLESALE FIRINGS AND HIS SWEEPING POLICY CHANGES ARE CALLING INTO QUESTION THE PRESIDENT'S CLAIM THAT HIS POWER OVER THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH IS COMPLETE AND CANNOT BE QUESTIONED.

BUT DOES THE PRESIDENT HAVE THAT POWER?

FOR A DISCUSSION ON WHAT'S CALLED THE "UNITARY EXECUTIVE THEORY," WE WELCOME STEPHEN MONTOYA PARTNER AT MONTOYA, LUCERO & PASTOR.

AND, PAUL BENDER, FROM ASU'S SANDRA DAY O'CONNER COLLEGE OF LAW.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

I LOVE THIS KIND OF STUFF.

STEVEN, LET'S START WITH YOU.

THE UNITARY EXECUTIVE THEORY, WHAT IS THAT.

>> IT'S LANGUAGE BASED ON THE CONSTITUTION.

ALL POWER IS VESTED IN THE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENCY.

IT'S VERY SPECIFIC.

IN CONTEXT IT MAKES SENSE.

INITIALLY, THE FOUNDERS WERE CONSIDERING A PANEL OF EXECUTIVES, MAYBE TWO OR THREE OR FOUR AND THEY ULTIMATELY DECIDED ON ONE AND THAT'S WHAT IT MEANS.

EXECUTIVE POWER IS PLACED IN ONE INDIVIDUAL.

IT DOESN'T MEAN ALL OF THE POWERS OF GOVERNMENT PLACED IN THAT INDIVIDUAL IT WAS ONE VERSA FEW.

>> ARTICLE TWO EXECUTIVE POWER SHALL BE VESTED IN THE PRESIDENT OF AMERICA.

IS THE PRESIDENT READING THIS CORRECTLY FROM WHERE YOU SIT?

>> HE'S READING IT TOO BROADLY FOR HIS POINT OF VIEW IT'S NOT CLEAR FROM THE CONSTITUTION.

SAME FOR JURAL AND LEGISLATURE POWER.

THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS EACH BRANCH CAN DO.

THERE IS A LOT OF OVERLAP.

THE RULINGS HAVE NEVER BEEN CLEAR.

TRUMP IS DOING EVERYTHING HE CAN TO MIX THEM UP AND BLUR THEM.

HE WOULD LIKE AS MUCH EXECUTIVE POWER AS POSSIBLE.

SO FAR IS SUPREME COURT HAS BEEN A WILLING PARTICIPANT IN THAT.

THE BIGGEST THING IS HOW FAR THEY CAN GO FROM THE TRADITIONAL LIMITS.

>> TALK ABOUT HOW THE FOUNDERS WERE CAUTIOUS ABOUT A SUPER STRONG EXECUTIVE BRANCH.

>> THEY WERE VERY CAUTIOUS ABOUT A SUPER STRONG BRANCH.

THAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF THE CONSTITUTION AS YOU UNDERSTAND, WE REVOLTED FROM KING GEORGE.

THEY DIDN'T WANT TO REPLICATE THAT.

THEY VESTED THE UNITARY EXECUTIVE THEORY.

THERE IS SOMETHING CALLED THE UNITARY CONGRESSIONAL THEORY.

ALL LEGISLATURE POWER IS VESTED IN CONGRESS.

THE FRAMERS, UNEQUIVOCALLY BELIEVED CONGRESS WOULD BE THE STRONGEST BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT, EVEN THOUGH THE PRESIDENT WOULD BE STRONG, THE PRESIDENT WAS TO EXECUTE THE RULES THAT CONGRESS PASSED BICAMERALY.

HE WAS SUPPOSED TO EXECUTE THEM FAITHFULLY.

AS WE DISCUSSED.

HE WAS GIVEN INSTRUCTIONS AND HE WAS SUPPOSED TO EXECUTE THEM IN GOOD FAITH ACCORDING TO IT WILL AND DICTATES OF CONGRESS.

>> YEAH, PAUL U IS THAT HOW YOU SEE IT AS WELL?

>> WELL, YEAH.

THE PROBLEM IS FINDING WHAT IT WILL OF CONGRESS IS.

CONGRESS CANNOT ANTICIPATE EVERY PROBLEM THAT WILL COME UP.

THEY CAN'T LEGISLATE RULES.

THEY PASS GENERAL PROPOSITIONS.

THEY HAVE TO BE SOME WHAT VAGUE.

THEY ARE VAGUE.

I DON'T SEE HOW THEY CAN BE MADE BY ANYTHING BUT VAGUE.

YOU HAVE A GOVERNMENT.

ALL THREE PARTS HAVE TO OPERATE.

IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE SOME OVERLAP.

THE LINE BETWEEN ONE AND ANOTHER I THINK IT'S NECESSARILY DIFFICULT TO FIND.

THAT LEAVES IT UP TO THE SUPREME COURT.

THAT WILL INDEPENDENT UP DECIDING THESE THINGS.

THE SUPREME COURT HAS NOT BEEN CLEAR ITSELF IN IT'S SOMETHING THAT HAS TO BE DECIDED YOU CAN'T LEAVE THIS TO THE PEOPLE.

WHAT ARE THE PEOPLE SUPPOSED TO DO ABOUT IT.

SOMEONE HAS TO TAKE CHARGE.

RIGHT NOW, THE ONLY ONE TAKING CHARGE IS THE PRESIDENT IT WAS INTENDED IS CONGRESS WOULD BE THE ONE THAT TAKES CHARGE THEY ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT OF THE BRANCHES.

THEY HAVE BEEN OPERATING NOT VERY EFFICIENTLY LATELY.

YOU HAVE BASICALLY A CONSTITUTION THAT'S INTERESTING.

IT DOESN'T MAKE A LOT OF INDIVIDUAL PARTICULAR THAT WORKED PRETTY WELL.

THEY CAN MOVE IN THE DIRECTION YOU WANT THEM TO MOVE IN AND NO REALLY BODY OF LAW BUILT UP TO RETRAIN THAT.

YOU HAVE AN ACTIVE FORCEFUL PRESIDENT.

YO HAVE A SUPREME COURT WITH NO LEADERSHIP WHAT SO EVER.

YOU HAVE, CONGRESS YOU HAVE TWO OTHER BODIES I DON'T THINK IS STRONG.

THE QUESTION WHAT DO PEOPLE LIKE JOHN ROBERTS THINK OF TRUMP.

TO BE WILLING TO CAVE IN AND LET THEM HAVE A HUGE AMOUNT OF POWER.

>> STEVE, IN 2019 DONALD TRUMP SAID I HAVE AN ARTICLE TWO I HAVE THE WRITE TO DO WHATEVER I WANT AS PRESIDENT.

>> THAT'S JUST RHETORIC.

HE DOES NOT.

THE COURT WON'T LET HIM DO THAT.

HOWEVER MOST OF THE COURT SUBSCRIBES TO A LARGE DEGREE WITH THE EXSEXIVE THEORY.

HE WILL BE ABLE TO FIRE WHOEVER HE WANTS.

HE WILL HAVE TO REAPPOINT REPLACEMENTS WITH THE APPROVAL OF CONGRESS.

THERE IS A LIMIT TO WHAT HE CAN DO ONE THING THE COURT HEAD VERY PLAIN THE FEDERAL RESERVE BOARD IS OFF LIMITS.

IF TRUMP TRIES TO CONTROL THE FEDERAL RESERVE BOARD.

SUPPOSED HE TRIES TO TERMINATE WITHOUT CAUSE MEMBERS OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE BOARD AND INSTIL HIS PALS, THE COURT WON'T LET HIM DO IT.

THE FEDERAL RESERVE IS THE PARADIGM OF THE REFUTATION OF THE UNITARY EXECUTIVE THEORY.

>> DO YOU BELIEVE THAT PAUL?

>> ON THAT ONE, I AGREE WITH STEVE.

THERE MIGHT BE 100 ISSUES LIKE THAT WE COULD NAME.

EACH ONE, WITH WON'T BE CLICHE ON WHAT THE ANSWERS WOULD BE.

YOU CAN READ THE CONSTITUTION ALL YOU WANT AND YOU DON'T GET AN ANSWER TO WHAT IS THE EXECUTIVE COURT AND LEGISLATURE POWER.

YOU CAN'T DEFINE THEM PERFECTLY.

IT'S UP TO THE COURT TO DECIDE HOW MUCH THEY WILL INTERFERE WITH THIS I'LL JUST STAND BACK AND DEFER REALLY, TO HIM.

CONGRESS IS ACTIVE ENOUGH AND SO FAR, I THINK THEY ARE WILLING WILLING.

WHETHER IT WILL CONTINUE IT'S OUTRAGEOUS.

I KEEP ROOTING FOR HIM TO DO SOMETHING OUTRAGEOUS.

THE COURT WILL SAY THAT'S OKAY.

HE WILL DO SOMETHING MORE OUTRAGEOUS.

>> THAT'S WHERE CONGRESS WOULD COME IN AND THE PEOPLE, WAH-WAH DO THE PEOPLE THINK, ISN'T THAT WHAT CONGRESS IS THERE FOR.

>> THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE THERE FOR BUT, YOU KNOW, OUR CONSTITUTION WAS CONCEIVED IN A VERY, VERY DIFFERENT TIME.

OUR SOCIETY IS MUCH LARGER AND MORE COMPLEX.

NOW WE HAVE ADMINISTRATIVE AGENCIES.

IT'S UNDENIABLE THAT THEY ARE NEEDED.

THE FED THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION.

ON THE EDGES.

THE EPA MAKES SOME PEOPLE NERVOUS.

>> YEAH, RIGHT NOW, THOSE THINGS ARE TARGETED.

JUST THE IDEA THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION IS OUT THERE.

JUST THE IDEA THIS EXISTING IS AGAINST THE POLICIES.

>> I KNOW, THOSE ARE ALL -- NOSE AGENCIES ARE ALL EXECUTIVE AGENCIES.

THE COURT HAS SIGNALED, THROUGH A SERIES OF CASES THAT STARTED WITH MORRIS VERSES OLSON IN THE 70s.

THEY WOULD DEFER TO THE PRESIDENT.

JUSTICE HAD A DECENT THAT'S BECOME THE CHANT AND CHORES OF THE SUPREME COURT JUSTICES THESE DAYS THAT AFFIRM THE PRESIDENT OF FIRING ALL KINDS OF ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICIALS.

I THINK THAT WILL CONTINUE TO BE THE CASE, HOWEVER, I THINK THERE WILL BE A LIMIT TO IT.

I'LL TELL YOU THE LIMIT IS COMING TO ENTITIES LIKE THE FED, LIKE THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION.

LIKE THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY, YOU NEED NEUTRAL EXPERTS, YOU NEED NEUTRAL SCIENTISTS IN SOME CONTEXT THAT WILL BASICALLY PUT -- THAT WILL BRING THE PUBLIC AND THAT WILL BRING CONGRESS TO BRING AN END TO THIS.

I HOPE TRUMP INTOXICATED WITH HIS OWN POWER.

HE WOULD LIKE TO DO THE BEST FOR THE COUNTRY.

WITH THE HEALTH OF THE REPUBLIC IN JEOPARDY.

CAN THEY FULLY AND EFFECTIVELY RESPOND IN TIME EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING ON.

>> YEAH, THEY CAN.

THEY ARE ENORMOUSLY FLEXIBLE.

THEY CAN DO THINGS IN AN HOUR.

IT'S REALLY UP TO THEM.

SOMETIMES THEY DO ACT EFFICIENTLY.

SOMETIMES THEY DON'T.

WHY THAT IS IS SOMETIMES THE PROBLEMS ARE TOO HARD NO CLEAR MAJORITY TO DO SOMETHING.

NO ONE ON THE COURT NOW, MAYBE I SHOULDN'T SAY THIS BUT I WILL.

NO ONE ON THE COURT THAT SERVES AS AN INTELLECTUAL LEADER THAT COULD LEAD THE COURT THROUGH THIS.

THESE ARE HARD PROBLEMS.

I'M LOOKING FOR SOMEONE WHO THINK CAN FIGURE IT OUT AND EXPLAIN IT SO OTHER PEOPLE CAN UNDERSTAND THAT'S USEFUL AND PRACTICAL.

NO ONE DOES THAT CONSISTENCY.

LOOKED LIKE JUSTICE ROBERTS WOULD DO THAT BUT LATELY HE HASN'T BEEN AND NO ONE ELSE HAS EMERGED.

I HAD BEEN HOPING JUSTICE JACKSON MIGHT EMERGE AS SOMEONE LIKE THAT.

SHE'S SMART, YOUNG, AND EXPERIENCED BUT WHO KNOWS.

WASHINGTON YOU HAVE IS A WONDERFUL GOVERNMENTAL SYSTEM.

A SYSTEM RUN BY PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT DOING A VERY GOOD JOB.

CONGRESS IS NOT DOING A VERY GOOD JOB.

THE COURT IS NOT DOING A GOOD JOB.

THE PRESIDENT AND ANYONE CAN MAKEUP THEIR MINDS.

WE WILL FLOUNDER ALONG.

MAYBE THE GOAL AND SILVER LINING IS THE SYSTEM IS SO GOOD WITH IT BEING THAT BADLY RUN LIKE IT IS RIGHT NOW.

>> WOW, INTERESTING.

DOES ALL OF THIS COME BACK TO SOMEWAY, SHAPE, OR FORM IMMUNITY BY THE SUPREME COURT?

>> NO, IT'S RELATED BUT NOT THE SAME THING.

I CAN TELL YOU THAT IMMUNITY RULING COUPLED WITH THE PRESIDENT'S ABSOLUTE POWER TO PARDON HAVE CREATED AN EXECUTIVE OF IT AS MUCH MORE POWERFUL THAN IF HE'S EVER BEEN -- IT HAS EVER BEEN.

IT'S SCARY BECAUSE IT IS A RECIPE FOR UNMITIGATED TERN ANY IF HE'S IMMUNE FROM EVERYTHING THAT HE DOES THAT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH HIS POWERS AS THE PRESIDENT AND HE CAN ORDER PEOPLE TO DO THINGS IN HIS PRESIDENTIAL CAPACITY THEY DON'T HAVE THE SAME TYPE OF IMMUNITY BUT HE CAN PARDON THEM AND GETAWAY WITH ANYTHING.

REALLY WHAT HAPPENED, THE ATTACK ON THE CAPITOL THE RIOT ON THE CAPITOL WHILE HE TRIED TO INTERFERE WITH THE TRANSFER OF POWER.

THAT'S THE PRIME EXAMPLE OF THAT.

>> LAST WORD ON THIS PAUL.

WE HAVE TO GET GOING HERE.

I UNDERSTAND THE IMMUNITY IS NOT NECESSARILY RELATIVE TO WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WITH THE UNITARY EXECUTIVE THEORY.

WHAT STOPS HIM?

DO COURTS STOP HIM?

HE SAYS NO.

WHAT IS STOPPING HIM?

>> WELL, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

THE ANSWER THE ONLY THING THAT CAN STOP HIM IS COOPERATION OF THE OTHER BRANCHES TRYING TO STOP HIM.

SO FAR THEY HAVEN'T SHOWN THE DESIRE TO DO THAT.

THEY CAN STOP HIM.

IF THE COURTS AND CONGRESS WERE TOGETHER THEY COULD DO THAT.

THEY COULD WITH HOLD MONEY AND PEOPLE AND CHANGE RULES.

NO ONE IS WILLING TO STEP FORWARD TO SAY HEY, HERE IS THE RIGHT ANSWER.

LET'S DO IT THIS WAY.

EVERYBODY IS FLOUNDERING AROUND.

THE MORE THEY FLOUNDER THE MORE THE STRONG PERSON AMONG THEM OR STRONGEST PERSON AMONG THEM IS TRUMP HAS POWER.

HE KNOWS WHAT HE WANTS.

HE WILL GRAB EVERYTHING HE CAN.

IF NO ONE IS THERE TO STOP HIM HE WILL CONTINUE.

>> I THINK THE COURT CAN STOP HIM.

>> IF HE GOES TOO FAR I DON'T THINK HE WILL DISOBEY A DIRECT ORDER FROM THE COURT.

I DON'T THINK HE WILL DO IT.

IF HE DOES, I THINK CONGRESS WILL TURN AGAINST HIM.

I DON'T THINK HE WILL DO IT.

HE'S CRAZY BUT NOT STUPID.

>> HE THINKS HE ANDREW JACKSON TOO.

>> JACKSON OBEYED THE COURT, ULTIMATELY.

>> ULTIMATELY.

>> WHEN SOUTH CAROLINA THREATENED TO GO AGAINST THE COURT AND THREATENED TO GO AGAINST THE COUNTRY, HE THREATENED SOUTH CAROLINA.

>> WE HAVE TO STOP IT RIGHT THERE.

WE COULD TALK ALL DAY ABOUT THIS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US STEVEN.

GOOD STUFF.

THANK YOU.

>>> THE LATEST CDC DATA SHOWS FLU CASES ARE AT THEIR HIGHEST LEVELS IN 15 YEARS, WITH CASES IN ARIZONA ON THE RISE SINCE OCTOBER.JOINING US NOW IS DR. NICK STAAB ASSISTANT MEDICAL DIRECTOR AT MARICOPA COUNTY DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC HEALTH.

>> CONFUSED TO SEE YOU, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> CASES ARE AT A 15 YEAR HIGH IN ARIZONA.

IS ANY OF THIS A SURPRISE?

WHAT'S GOING ON OUT HERE?

>> IT'S ALWAYS A SURPRISE SEEING NUMBERS THIS HIGH.

SINCE THE PANDEMIC WE SAW FLU SEASON EACH YEAR COME BACK STRONGER BACK TO WHAT WE SAW TYPICALLY BEFORE THE PANDEMIC.

IT'S A HIGH YEAR AND CONCERNING.

>> IF YOU LOOK AT THIS SEASON COMPARED TO LAST SEASON AND FIVE SEASON AVERAGE.

WE ARE TWO TIMES AS HIGH AS WE WOULD EXPECT.

WE ARE 1.5 TIMES AS HIGHER THAN LAST YEAR.

>> IS THIS A NEW STRAIN OR RECOGNIZABLE SEASONABLE FLU?

>> ARE RECOGNIZABLE.

WE ARE ACCUSTOM TO SEEING WHAT'S MOST CONCERNING IS WE SEE YOUNG CHILDREN IMPACTED WHICH, AGAIN, IT'S NOT UNEXPECTED WITH THE FLU.

WE ARE SEEING HIGH NUMBERS IN THAT AGE GROUP.

>> AS FAR AS BEING MORE SERIOUS IN PAST YEAR THAT MAKES IT MORE SERIOUS.

>> BY THE NUMBERS.

NOT NECESSARILY THE ILLNESS.

>> OKAY, THE SYMPTOMS OF THE FLU GIVE US THE BASICS HERE.

THE FLU, WHAT ARE THE SYMPTOMS.

>> FEVER AND BODY ACHE AND UPPER RASPATORY COSTS.

IT'S THE TYPICAL HIGH FEVER BODY ACHES REALLY FEELING BAD.

>> HOW LONGS ARE FOLKS LAID UP.

IT'S DEPENDENT ON INDIVIDUALS SOME PEOPLE A FEW DAYS AND OTHERS IN A WEEK.

WE SEE PROLONGED ILLNESSES.

>> IS THIS SOMETHING THAT CAN COME AND GO.

YOU GET BETTER AND RIGHT BAN DOWN AGAIN?

>> NOT TYPICALLY BUT THERE ARE DIFFERENT STRAINS OF FLU.

THERE IS FLU A AND B.

IF YOU HAVE A YOU CAN GET B.

>> COMPARE THE SYMPTOMS WITH RSV?

>> VERY SIMILAR IN OLDER PEOPLE.

NOTICE DISTINGUISHABLE.

THE BIGGEST IS IN THE YOUNGEST KIDS WITH INFANTS.

CAUSES A LOT OF MUCUS AND RASPATORY AND BREATHING PROBLEMS.

>> RSV STARTED OFF SLOW.

IT'S PICKING UP.

DEFINITELY SEEING IT IMPACTING THE YOUNGER KIDS.

WE HAVE NEW TOOLS WE GOT A FEW YEARS AGO JUST LIKE WITH THE FLU VACCINE.

WE ARE ENCOURAGING OTHER PEOPLE.

WHAT REALLY FLUSTERING WE KNOW WE CAN AVOID THE SEVERE DISEASES.

>> OUR HEALTHCARE PROVIDERS ARE TALKING ABOUT IT.

IT'S NOT TOO LATE TO GET A FLU VACCINE.

YOU CAN STILL GET A FLU VACCINE.

>> I WAS GOING ASK ABOUT IT BEING TOO LATE.

THE SEASON IN ARIZONA SEEMS LATER FIRST OF ALL IS THAT TRUE THEY FOLLOW THE EAST COAST AND FUN BELT THEY FOLLOW US THERE SIMILAR TO WHAT WE SAW WITH COVID-19 TRENDS TOO.

IT'S RELATED TO THE TRANSMISSION OF RASPATORY DISEASES AND WHERE WE SEE IT COMING.

RELATED TO OUR BEHAVIORS AND WHAT WE DO HERE DIFFERENTLY.

IT'S SLOWER TO BE PICKED UP.

THIS IS BEFORE THEY LEAVE THE HOSPITAL.

WE ARE GETTING THERE AND IT'S IMPROVING.

>> IS IT TOO LATE TO GET THE VACCINES.

>> WE ARE TRANSMITTING AT A LOWER LEVEL.

IT'S NOT WORTH IT AT THAT POINT.

IT DOESN'T STOP INTO THAT NEXT SEASON.

THERE IS A TIME WHEN IT'S NOT AS EFFECTIVE AND NOT WORTH IT.

>> WE ARE NOT THERE YET.

>> NOT EVEN CLOSE.

>> BEFORE WE GO.

I HAVE TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE BIRD FLU.

>> THE BIRD FLU, THE GENERAL PUBLIC IS LOW RISK.

THERE IS A LOT OF MEDIA ABOUT IT RIGHT NOW.

IT'S DEFINITELY IMPACTING DAIRY AND CHICKEN FARMERS.

THE GENERAL POPULATION IS LOW RISK.

WE SHOULD BE FOCUSING ON PREVENTING INFLUENZA INFECTIONS.

>> THE NUMBERS ARE STILL GOING UP AS FAR AS FLU IS CONCERNED?

>> WEEK TO WEEK THEY START TO COME DOWN A BIT.

WE SEE A SURGE IN B.

WE ARE NOT OUT OF THE WOODS YET.

>> ALL RIGHT, THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC HEALTH.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE A FLU SHOT GO GET ONE.

>> YES, AND STAY SAFE.

>> THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

HAVE A GREAT