(uplifting music) - Welcome to "Almanac North."

I'm Brett Scott.

- And I'm Maarja Hewitt.

Thanks for joining us.

Tonight we're taking a look at regional folklore and local legends.

- That is all coming up on "Almanac North."

But first, the Affinity Plus Foundation has awarded a $30,000 grant to One Roof Community Housing to support home ownership for underserved families in Duluth and surrounding areas.

Affinity Plus Foundation Board Chair Jessica Volkmann says, "This partnership with One Roof Community Housing is a meaningful step in our ongoing efforts to support first-time home buyers across the state.

By empowering families with the tools and resources they need, we're helping to build stronger communities and brighter futures."

This grant is part of a broader effort by the foundation to expand home ownership opportunities across the state.

- The Minnesota Department of Natural Resources released a summary of key 2024 accomplishments in conservation, recreation, and sustainable resource management.

DNR Commissioner Sarah Strommen praised the department and Minnesotans, saying, "I'm particularly excited about the momentum we've built, implementing the Get Out MORE initiative established in 2023.

The once-in-a-generation $150 million investments are already helping ensure Minnesotans of all abilities enjoy a world-class recreation system, regardless of the outdoor experience they choose."

For the complete summary, visit mndnr.gov.

- Well, the Forest Service announced Monday BWCAW permit reservations for the 2025 season open at 9:00 AM on January the 29th of 2025.

Visitors can reserve online at recreation.gov or by calling 877-444-6777.

Visitors are encouraged to plan ahead and review the BWCAW Trip Planning Guide available online.

Remember, only one permit per group leader or for the same date.

More details, you can visit Superior National Forest's website.

- Well, this Christmas, the Bob Dylan biography, "A Complete Unknown," will arrive in theaters.

The Almanac North team had a rare opportunity to speak with Bob Dylan's lifelong friend Louie Kemp about their experiences growing up together.

Here is one of the stories he shared.

- We met at a summer camp in northern Wisconsin, right outside Webster.

It's called Herzl Camp.

It was a co-educational Jewish camp.

The reason we went back five years in a row is because it was co-educational.

(laughs) Those were great summer romances, you know, and friendships.

So, and Bobby and I were in the same cabin the first year.

We hit it off right away.

Being that we're both from Northern Minnesota, we stayed in contact after the camp and he'd start coming down to Duluth and that's how our friendship grew.

We were just kids then, you know?

So we'd go, for instance, to the London Inn Drive-In on London Road, not far from here.

That was the big hangout for underage kids in those days before you could go to a club.

You would socialize in the parking lot.

And then ultimately they would say, "Let's go back to my house."

And we would do that.

That was common.

Very often there was a piano in these homes, and as soon as Bobby saw the piano, go right to the piano.

That was all about music.

His main passion, you know, before girls was music for sure.

And he would go and start playing these rock and roll songs and blues songs that he had learned, starting on the radio, start off with maybe Little Richard and Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Lewis.

Now, if you know Jerry Lee Lewis' style, he would stand up by the piano.

Eventually, Jerry Lee Lewis would stand on the piano, and he was a wild man.

And he'd pound on the piano and scream those songs, you know, that he sang.

Bobby would do that.

You gotta remember, these were houses of sedate, nice Jewish people, you know, conservative.

These pianos were normally used to playing show tunes, Bach and Beethoven.

They were not used to rock and roll.

And there was always a chaperone there.

The parents were always there.

And at some point the parents would get freaked out and they'd kick us out.

We got kicked out of every open house we ever went to with Bobby, we got kicked out of at some point.

I'd be trying to calm the parents down.

This is rock and roll.

This is the music of our time.

You should listen to it.

You might like it.

Out the door, you know?

And that happened in Duluth, in St. Paul, in Minneapolis 'cause we would, on some occasions, when Bobby would come down, we'd take the train to the Twin Cities 'cause a lot of the kids that we met at Herzl Camp, that's where they lived, in the Twin Cities.

And we would stay with them.

And then they would have open houses, the same setup, and we'd get kicked out of those too.

And none of it bothered him.

It didn't bother.

"I've been kicked out of better places than this," he'd shout as we got shoved out the door.

(laughs) - Our first guest today is an accomplished author and Scandinavian folklore expert and storyteller, Lise Lunge-Larsen.

Lise, thank you for joining us.

- Oh, you're welcome.

- So why folklore?

Why were you drawn to Scandinavian folklore?

- Well, it wasn't the plan.

I had a scholarship to go to college for one year, but I fell in love and I wanted to stay.

And so my parents were like, "You stay, you pay," 'cause it's free in Norway.

So I got a job in the children's library and then I decided that these kids had a good idea going, getting a college credit for taking, you know, it was great reading these American children's books.

And I took a class in children's literature and in every children's literature class, there's a section called Folklore and Storytelling.

And the professor looked at me and said, "Lise, you're from Norway.

I bet you can tell us a Norwegian story."

And I said, "Yeah!"

(both laugh) So I told my first story and then she told about me too, the University of Minnesota, and I started telling.

And so I just, it started with storytelling, which I turned out to have a natural knack for.

- I can see that.

So for those who are unfamiliar with Scandinavian or Norwegian folklore- - [Lise] Yeah.

- As you are Norwegian, what makes it unique?

- Well, what really stands out about Norwegian folklore is the connection with all of the characters with nature.

You know, what Norwegians folktales are most famous for, of course, are the trolls.

And the trolls are, you know, they're not the same kinds of trolls in Sweden or Denmark even.

The Norwegian trolls are giant.

They're huge.

They're part of the landscape.

You know, they can't be outside with the sunshine 'cause if they are, they burst and turn into stone.

And so all the Norwegian mountains are named after the trolls that they once were.

So that's one of the aspect that makes it really unique.

So they actually predate Christianity.

They are the original, some of the first creatures in the north mythology that were created were the trolls.

- So are there specific trolls?

Like do they have names or is it just kind of general trolls?

- Well, some of them have names, you know, like Goodnut, that would be a good troll name, Helwood.

But there's forest trolls, there's mountain trolls, you know, there's just kind of more the region that they live in.

Yeah.

- What significance do the trolls hold?

- The trolls, I think, are... That's a big question because of course they are a manifestation of evil.

They're what's dark.

They're something that, you know, is...

In Norway, when I grew up, if I was behaving badly, my mother would call me a troll kid.

And I knew that that's because I let the dark side, something bad inside of me come out.

So while they're also something that's out in nature, they're part of the landscape.

When you walk around in the mountains in Norway, you're walking on dead trolls.

But there's also that realization that we all have the potential for being a troll inside of us.

And so when somebody's really bad, we say, "Oh, he's a troll."

- Oh.

- So, you know?

- And you know what that means.

- Oh, yeah.

- Everybody knows what it means.

- That means that you have, you know, you've forgotten what's right and what's wrong, and you've gone to the dark side, you know, and it's interesting.

Kids really get that when you tell them stories.

I had a kid one time after we'd been talking about this and saying, "So do you think Saddam Hussein was a troll?"

And I said, "Yeah."

- Oh.

Oh, wow.

- It's probably- - They connected that.

- You know?

Yeah.

They get it.

- So you started as a storyteller- - Mm-hm.

- And still do storytelling, but you've also written many children's books.

- [Lise] Yeah.

- How does talking about that folklore and sharing that story, how does it differ orally and written?

- Well, when it's oral, you know, all of these stories come from the oral tradition.

They were passed on before there was a lot of literature, before there was the written word, you know?

I mean, writing and reading is not that old.

And then once it was invented, it was certainly, literacy was something for the very educated.

So everyone else had stories.

And so they were told, and they are different with every teller, with every single audience.

Every single time you tell a story, it's never exactly the same.

But when it's written down, it's arrested in time, it's frozen in print, it loses that dynamism that you get when you're telling something to somebody or to a group of children.

And when you tell stories to children, you can tell if they are scared, and so you tone it down.

Or if they're really loving it, you just lay it on.

And so it changes.

- You react.

I would love to see you tell a folklore story.

We just have a short time left.

I feel like we could do a half-hour segment on folklore, but is there a tradition or a story related to the holiday season that comes to mind?

- Well, there's many.

I think for a lot of people here in this area, it would be the stories about Saint Lucia, you know, the saint that was martyred in year 300 or something or other.

And then that appeared in the, when was it?

The 1700s in Sweden, in Lake Vanern with food for the people who were starving.

And she was, you know, having a light and she had, so, you know, the Saint Lucia traditions are very strong in Sweden.

In Norway, the traditions are much about the Nisse, who is a little house spirit, a little bit pesky, but generally very friendly, very strong.

And we don't have elves.

We have the Nisse that comes with the presents every year.

- The Nisse.

- The Nisse, yeah.

Always wears the red hat.

You see those little figures with- - Yeah.

- You know, the robes and the gray pants and the red hat.

That's the Nisse and that's the spirit of Christmas and the caretaker of the farm and the farm animals.

- Lise, thank you so much for joining us.

It's such a pleasure.

- You're welcome.

It was fun to be here.

(upbeat music) - Our next guest joins us from PBS North's very own "Minnesota Historia" to share a bit of history with us.

Host Hailey Eidenschink and also producer Mike Scholtz.

Thank you for both joining us tonight.

- Thank you.

- Of course.

Thanks for having us.

- Yeah.

We're excited that you're here.

So you both work for Minnesota Historia.

Tell us a little bit what that's about.

- Well, it's a series right here on PBS North and we try to cover quirky stories from Minnesota's past.

So that naturally leads us into a lot of folklore.

- Okay.

We love folklore.

So, Hailey, what is your interest in folklore?

- Folklore is a really kind of interesting intersection between history and cultural history.

So I've always been very interested in how humans kind of digest the past and interpret that.

And folklore is a really good medium to do that through.

So it's always been very fascinating to me.

- Yeah, it sounds very fascinating.

"Minnesota Historia," what are some of the local stories that we can get into?

- Oh, we've covered a lot of great stories.

One of my favorites is the Lost Train in Pine City.

They've got a lake, Devil's Lake.

It's very deep, but small and a train kind of goes right above it.

And a train maybe derailed in the late 1800s, fell into the lake, never to be seen again.

- Wow.

- People like searching for it.

The legend has sort of grown.

Now it's a circus train.

Maybe it's a circus train filled with Confederate gold.

And as far as we can tell, it didn't exist.

But it comes from sort of a, maybe a kernel of truth where people were worried about this lake being, you know, at the bottom of this embankment where the trains would always go.

And it just seemed like a little bit like something that could happen.

- Fun.

- And that's what we think is- - It could be very possible.

- [Mike] Yeah, where it came from.

- Hailey, what's one of your favorite stories?

- Oh, man, it's so hard to choose.

One of my favorite episodes has probably gotta be the other shipwrecks in Lake Superior that are not the Edmund Fitzgerald, like a compilation of shipwreck stories.

And there's a couple that have some pretty good folklorey twists.

What was the name of the boat?

- The Hudson.

- The Hudson.

- If that's the one you're thinking of.

- The ghost.

- That's my favorite one.

- Oh.

- Yeah.

So the story is on the anniversary of the sinking, the ghostly boat rises up out of the lake and does ghost things on a lake, scares sailors.

- Does ghost ship things, right?

- Yeah.

What ghost ships want to do.

- Yeah.

Fun.

That's exciting.

How do you determine fact from fiction when you're doing your research?

- Well, I think that one's fiction, the ghost ship.

(Hailey laughs) - Yeah.

- And that's the thing.

You don't always know exactly.

You can't always tell because, you know, like with the train, I mean, newspaper coverage was not that great in the late 1800s.

So we don't have a record of these things all the time.

But the lack of a record doesn't mean that something happened.

So we guess.

I'm just naturally skeptical, so I don't believe anything, but I want to believe everything.

So you have to find the balance there.

- You're like a professional skeptic.

- I am a professional skeptic.

- I like that.

- But you know, Bigfoot's cool.

I'd love to believe in Bigfoot, you know?

- I do.

- You do?

- I do.

- We're thinking about doing a Bigfoot episode- - Oh, perfect.

- For season four of "Minnesota Historia."

- Great.

- Yeah.

- I'll go hunting with you.

- Oh, that sounds fun.

- Yeah, that does sound fun.

Hailey, you also worked for the St. Louis County Depot.

- Yes.

- That's a very old building.

- Yeah.

Math is not my strong suit to liberal arts major.

I think we're 132 years old this year.

- [Brett] It's gotta be some folklore going on.

- Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

There's a ton of stories through the building.

Some of my favorite tours to give are haunted history tours.

Much like Mike, I want to believe in all of these things and I'm really fascinated by the stories, even if I personally am not sure about the existence of ghosts or not.

But being able to tell those stories to folks who come into the building and kinda like sneak history into the tour as well, it's one of my favorite parts of the gig for sure.

- How do you combine 100% skeptical people with folks who maybe believe it all?

- It's interesting.

You know, we visit a lot of small county historical societies as we were doing this show.

And we did one in season two, there's a UFO car, a car that crashed into a UFO supposedly in Marshall.

- Mm-hm - Marshall County.

- Marshall County, Minnesota.

- And they've got a great museum there and they bring a lot of people in the door because they want to look at the car that crashed into a UFO.

But then they've also got really cool things like an original Red River oxcart and all this other local history.

So I think you just gotta kind of throw up a big tent and have a little bit of folklore, a little bit of history, and hope people don't fight- - Yeah.

- About it.

- No fighting.

We don't want that.

- [Mike] Yeah.

- Hailey, how would you get someone involved in the community who might want to dabble in folklore?

- Oh, yeah, that's a really great question.

I think starting with your own family stories is a really great way to start.

One of the main problems when you're looking at archival work for folklore is that a lot of those times, they're stories that are passed down, like oral traditions, and if they're not being thought to be written down and archived, it can be challenging to do research later on.

So get your own family stories written down, things that are passed along.

And once you have that, maybe go talk to a local librarian, see what they have for folklore archives or collections in your immediate region.

And you might start to see connecting threads between your own family stories and some of the other ones in the area.

But there's a pretty robust national system as well that has a little bit of folklore from everywhere as well.

- I like how you mentioned connecting your own family stories too.

It's a generational thing, correct?

- Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, I think we all want to imagine cool things happened in the place that we lived and like our families were people who did cool things.

So I think that's where a lot of folklore comes from.

It's just this desire to be a part of something bigger.

- Have you always been interested in folklore?

- Oh, yeah, absolutely.

My mom and I would have just vicious arguments about whether the Vikings left a rune stone in Kensington because she grew up in Kensington and she absolutely believed it.

And you know, I was trained by Scooby-Doo to be skeptical of everything.

- Right.

- So I just didn't believe that this, you know, that why would Vikings have come over land to Kensington?

And so, but I've always been just fascinated by it, even though I've been a little argumentative about it.

- Sure.

Like you said, there's a little argument that goes on in there.

- [Mike] Yeah.

- Hailey, when did you get your start in folklore?

- Oh, you know, it's probably pretty similar.

So Scooby-Doo was a big part of my childhood as well.

- There's a theme here.

- Yeah.

And the first report that I had to write for an extinct animal, I was really having a Bigfoot phase at the moment, so I was like doing some early Google searching around and found there's like a historical basis for a very large ape-like creature in Central Asia, Gigantopithecus.

So I did my report on Gigantopithecus and was talking about historical connections, like this is maybe where the story comes from.

So I was a second grader writing a report about Bigfoot.

- I bet you got an A++.

- I assume so, yes.

And it just laid the groundwork to continue pursuing it indefinitely.

- Right.

- Wow.

- So we're in the holiday season.

Are there any folklorish holidays tales that you could share with us?

- Well- - Specifically.

- I think the ice should be just about to cover Devil's Lake in Pine City.

So if you want to get together with your family for Christmas and, you know, crawl out on the ice and try and peer down and search for the train... - Could be a new tradition.

- I mean, that's one thing I would suggest.

I'm trying to think.

Saint Urho, he's not Christmas.

He's more- - [Hailey] He's got his own holiday.

- He's got his own holiday later.

- We can think spring.

- Yeah.

Is it too early to think about spring?

- Maybe for some, not for others.

- Are you aware of Saint Urho?

Do you have time for one more story?

- Let's tell it.

- Saint Urho was made up by a guy in Virginia, Minnesota who worked at a department store 'cause he was jealous that the Irish had their own patron saint, Saint Patrick.

And so he just completely made up a Finnish patron saint, Saint Urho, who drove the grasshoppers out of Finland.

And they have parades up in Finland, Minnesota.

- I grew up in Finland, Minnesota.

- You did?

So you- - I sure did.

- You know the parade.

- Chased them out every spring.

- Thank you.

- Yes.

- Saint Urho's the best.

- We're trying.

They keep coming back, though.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

What's that deal about?

- Rascals.

We've got about one minute left.

Do you have an all-time favorite ghost story from the region?

- Oh, man.

There is a story that comes out of like after the Cloquet fires, there was stories about a boy who was raised by wolves in the woods in the immediate aftermath of that.

And I've always been fascinated by people, like the stories of children who were raised by animals in the woods.

That was like a major interest of mine for some reason.

Yeah.

The Dog Boy of Cloquet.

- Dog Boy of Cloquet.

I think we'll leave it there.

- Yeah.

That's a good one.

- That's a good one to stop at.

Yeah.

Mike, Hailey, thank you both for being with us.

We appreciate it.

(upbeat music) - First up, on Saturday morning at 9:00 AM, Superior Shores Resort is hosting Breakfast with Santa and the Grinch.

Everyone is invited to join the holiday legends for a mischievous breakfast full of laughter, magic, and holiday cheer.

There will be photo opportunities, a coloring station, cookie decorating, and a craft station for all.

Plus, enjoy a nice breakfast at the Vue North Restaurant.

More information and reservations are available online.

- And families can also enjoy an evening at the Lake Superior Zoo.

From 5:00 until 7:30 PM, the zoo will be lit up by their annual light display while featuring giant inflatable animals and plenty of photo opportunities for the family to enjoy.

Free s'mores and live music will be available as well as hot chocolate and other treats for sale at the Tiger Paw Gift Shop.

Plus, you may even see Santa making his rounds.

For more information for the Zoo Lights event, you can find it at lszoo.org.

- That's all for this week's episode, but a quick note before we go.

We will be off the air for the next two weeks.

We will be back on Thursday, January 9th at 5:30 PM right here on PBS North.

- Very exciting and thank you for joining us.

Have a great weekend and a good night.

(uplifting music)