♪ ♪ CALLIE: WELCOME TO "BASIC BLACK."

SOME OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON OUR BROADCAST AND OTHERS OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON OUR DIGITAL PLATFORMS.

I'’M CALLIE CROSSLEY, HOST OF "UNDER THE RADAR," 89.7.

TONIGHT, FOOD, CULTURE AND BLACK HISTORY.

FOOD IS THE FOUNDATION OF CULTURE IN AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITIES.

ENSLAVED AFRICANS BROUGHT SEEDS AND SPICES FROM THE MOTHER COUNTRY.

WHILE IN BONDAGE, THEY TOOK THE FOOD SCRAPS GIVEN TO THEM AND CREATED COMPLEX MEALS THAT WERE MUCH MORE THAN THE SUM OF THEIR PARTS.

TODAY THOSE DISHES, WHICH REFLECT THE HISTORY AND TRADITIONS OF BOTH AFRICAN AMERICAN AND AFRICAN CULTURE, ARE STAPLES IN BLACK AND AMERICAN CUISINE.

TWO LOCAL CHEFS JOIN US TONIGHT WITH DISHES FROM THEIR RESTAURANTS.

ONE, TRADITIONAL SOUL FOOD AND ANOTHER, A MODERN TAKE ON FOOD FROM THE GLOBAL DIASPORA.

JOINING US THIS EVENING, PAULA AUSTIN, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR OF HISTORY AND AFRICAN AMERICAN AND BLACK DIASPORA STUDIES, BOSTON UNIVERSITY.

ANTHONY "TONY" BROOKS, CHEF AND OWNER OF THE COAST CAFE IN CAMBRIDGE.

AND KWASI KWAA, CHEF AND PARTNER OF COMFORT KITCHEN IN DORCHESTER.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

CALLIE: KWASI, WE'’LL SEE YOU A LITTLE BIT LATER.

TONY, THIS IS EXCITING TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT FOOD AND AFRICAN-AMERICAN HISTORY AS WE CLOSE OUT BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

IT IS PERFECT.

SO TELL US WHAT YOU BROUGHT.

TONY: A TRADITIONAL MACARONI AND CHEESE.

LET ME SHOW YOU HOW WE MAKE IT.

CALLIE: OK, GREAT.

AS YOU ARE SETTING UP, LET ME SAY ONE OF THE THINGS THAT PAULA KNOWS ABOUT IS THAT EVEN SOMETHING AS TRADITIONAL AS MAC AND CHEESE, WHICH IS SERIOUSLY SOMETHING BLACK FOLKS RECOGNIZE AS PART OF THEIR CUISINE, CAN HAVE DIFFERENCES ACCORDING TO REGION.

PAULA: I THINK THAT IS TRUE FOR ALL THE DISHES WEAVING ABOUT AS STABLE BLACK DISHES, INCLUDING ONES THAT REACH ACROSS NOT JUST THE U.S., BUT ACROSS THE BLACK DIASPORA, THAT THEY ALL HAVE REGIONAL DIFFERENCES AND SOMETIMES DO NOT EXIST IN SOME REGIONS IN PARTICULAR WAYS.

THAT IS ONE OF THE SPECIAL THINGS ABOUT BLACK DIASPORA FOOD WAYS, IS THAT THEY ARE THESE KINDS OF THREADS THAT RUNS THROUGH THEM IN TERMS OF MAYBE FOOD PREPARATION, A TYPE OF FOOD PREPARATION, OR A SPECIFIC INGREDIENT, OR ANY TYPE OF INGREDIENT OR A LIST OF INGREDIENTS THAT CAN BE INTERCHANGEABLE.

BUT THERE IS A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE REGIONS, AND PEOPLE RECOGNIZE PARTICULAR FOODS, EVEN IF IT IS NOT THE FOOD OF THEIR HOME CULTURE.

CALLIE: YOU MAY KNOW THAT WHEN THE NATIONAL MUSEUM, THE SMITHSONIAN NATIONAL MUSEUM OF AFRICAN AMERICAN CULTURE AND HISTORY IN D.C.

OPENED, THERE WAS A BIG FIGHT BECAUSE IN THAT CAFETERIA WHAT WAS AFRICAN-AMERICAN CUISINE AH REGIONAL -- HAD REGIONAL DIFFERENCES.

PEOPLE WERE SAYING, THAT IS NOT MY SWEET POTATO PIE.

[LAUGHTER] NOW WHEN YOU GO THEY ARE IDENTIFIED.

IT SAYS HERE IS A MIDWEST, SOUTH, SO YOU CAN SEE SIMILAR FOODS BUT THE REGIONAL DIFFERENCES AS PAULA SAID.

NOW, LET'’S TALK ABOUT COAST CAFE.

ACTUALLY FOUNDED IN 1997.

AND THEN WENT ON IN 1999, YOU CAME BACK BECAUSE YOUR FAMILY HAD OPENED THAT, BUT YOUR DAD GOT SICK.

SO YOU PUT OFF REOPENING UNTIL MUCH LATER.

>> MY FATHER GOT CANCER IN 2004, PASSED AWAY EVENTUALLY, THEN I REOPENED IT WITH ME AND MY SISTER.

THEN SHE DID NOT WANT TO DO IT.

WE HAD A GRAND REOPENING AND WE HAVE BEEN THERE FOR 18 YEARS EVER SINCE.

CALLIE: I KNOW BECAUSE I AM A REGULAR CUSTOMER, FULL DISCLOSURE.

[LAUGHTER] I HAVE BEEN THERE MANY TIMES.

YOU ARE FROM MISSISSIPPI.

TONY: YES.

CALLIE: YOU LIVE IN NEW ENGLAND, BUT YOU BROUGHT MISSISSIPPI TO THIS MACARONI AND CHEESE.

WHAT MAKES IT MISSISSIPPI?

TONY: THE LAYERS.

WE DO A NOODLE, THE MAC, THEN A CHEESE, SOME DIFFERENT TYPES OF CHEESE.

WE DO NOT JUST DO CHEDDAR, BUT MANY PEOPLE JUST DO CHEDDAR.

MILK, EGG, BREADCRUMBS ON TOP.

AND IT IS TRADITIONAL.

CALLIE: THAT IS RIGHT.

AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED, THAT IS THE CORRECT WAY TO DO IT.

I DO NOT MEAN TO INSULT OTHER PEOPLE.

BUT IF IT IS -- BUT IT IS NOT IN A PAN WITH SOME SAUCE ON IT.

IT'’S VERY CENTRAL TO AFRICAN-AMERICAN CUISINE.

TONY: THAT IS HOW I GREW UP.

MY MOM WOULD PUT IT IN THE BOILER.

RELAYER IT WITH ALL THE CHEESE.

AND THAT IS THE WAY WE DO IT.

CALLIE: OK, WE WILL WATCH YOU MAKE THIS UP BECAUSE WE WANT TO TASTE IT WHILE WE ARE TALKING TO YOU.

TONY: THE FIRST THING IS YOU HAVE YOUR PAN.

ADD A LITTLE BUTTER.

WE DO A LITTLE PAM ON IT.

AND THEN WE ADD OUR NOODLES.

WE ADD NOODLES.

YOU WANT TO DO A POUND OF MACARONI FOR EACH LAYER.

PUT A LITTLE SALT IN THE WATER.

SALT EVERY LEVEL SO IT GIVES YOU THAT EXTRA BANG.

WE HAD AMERICAN CHEESE.

WE PUT SOME ON ALREADY.

WE DO ABOUT 15 SLICES PER LAYER.

OK. AND THEN WE ADD OUR GRATED CHEESE.

CALLIE: MMM.

TONY: THIS IS M-JACK CHEESE AND CHEDDAR CHEESE.

SPREAD IT NICE AND NEATLY SO IT MELTS DOWN.

CALLIE: AS YOU ARE DOING THAT, COVID WAS TOUGH FOR A LOT OF RESTAURANTS, BUT PARTICULARLY TOUGH FOR BLACK RESTAURANTS.

WAS IT HARD FOR YOU GUYS?

TONY: IT WAS.

BUT WE WERE TAKEOUT AS WELL, SO WE DIDN'’T HAVE TO DEAL WITH SOME PROBLEMS PEOPLE HAD.

WE STAYED OPEN MOST OF THE TIME.

CALLIE: YOU HAVE A BIG CLIENTELE.

YOU STILL DO.

WAS THAT ABLE TO HELP YOU?

YOU DIDN'’T HAVE TO START FROM SCRATCH, YOU ALREADY HAD BUILT IN CUSTOMERS.

TONY: WE DID.

BUT IT CHANGED, THE CUSTOMER BASE, AS COVID WENT A LONG.

WE LOST SOME PEOPLE, GAINED SOME PEOPLE.

CALLIE: YOU HAD TO CHANGE YOUR MENU.

TONY: WE DID.

SUPPLY CHAINS.

CALLIE: STAFF SHORTAGES.

TONY: YES.

CALLIE: WHILE YOU FINISH THAT WITH THE EGG.

TONY: YEAH, SCRAMBLE THE EGG.

A OF A AND A HALF OF MILK PER LAYER.

GIVE THAT A GOOD SHAKE.

CALLIE: ALL OF THIS IS GOING TO BAKE?

AND IT IS GOING TO BE -- I LIKE THE END PIECES.

THEY ARE REALLY GOOD.

PAULA: MMM.

TONY: THE CORNERS.

CALLIE: WHAT PEOPLE MAY NOT KNOW, PAULA, BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT REGIONAL DIFFERENCES AND HOW BLACK FOLKS COME TOGETHER IN COMMUNITIES, AND FROM THOSE COMMUNITIES -- WHICH IS WHAT YOU STUDY -- THE RECIPES GET HANDED DOWN.

BUT THE COMING 2 AMERICA MACARONI AND CHEESE WAS BROUGHT OVER BY A BLACK MAN IN 1784.

IN 1784, THOMAS JEFFERSON, NOT BLACK, HAD ENSLAVED JAMES HENNINGS.

HE WAS BORN IN VIRGINIA.

HE WANTED HIM TO INCREASE HIS KNOWLEDGE AS A CHEF, SO HE TOOK HIM TO FRANCE.

AND JAMES SAW THE CHEESE, THE PASTA, PUT IT TOGETHER AND BROUGHT IT BACK TO AMERICA.

IT WAS CALLED MACARONI PIE AT THAT POINT.

PAULA: WHICH PROVES IT SHOULD BE BAKED.

TONY: THAT IS RIGHT.

CALLIE: PRETTY MUCH.

JAMES BROUGHT IT FROM HIS WORK WITH THOMAS JEFFERSON.

SO, THAT SHOULD BE READY NOW.

TONY: WE ADDED PARMESAN, BUTTER.

WE COVER IT.

IT GOES IN THE OVEN.

CALLIE: WHY DO YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF OLD-SCHOOL SOUL FOOD?

TONY: MY MOM TAUGHT US THE WAY EVERYBODY DID IT BEFORE.

THE LAYERING -- YES.

YOU CAN ADD BREADCRUMBS AS WELL, TO GIVE IT A LITTLE MORE FLAVOR.

WE HAVE SOME SEASONED STUFF HE RE.

CALLIE: YOUR MOM TAUGHT YOU.

IT COMES FROM MISSISSIPPI WHERE YOUR GRANDMOTHER WAS.

GREAT COOKS IN THE FAMILY.

TONY: YEAH.

CALLIE: WHAT I FIND FASCINATING IS THAT PASSING ON OF THE RECIPES IN THESE COMMUNITIES IS WHAT ENDED UP WITH THESE DISHES BECOMING SOMEWHAT CHANGED OR NOT, BUT ALSO A STAPLE.

PAULA: YEAH, YOUR EXAMPLE OF HEMMING -- OF JAMES HENNINGS, ONE OF THE REALLY IMPORTANT THINGS ABOUT BLACK FOOD WAYS IS THE WAY IN WHICH IT IS A COMBINATION OF SO MANY DIFFERENT CULTURES AND CUISINES, INCLUDING INGREDIENTS THAT WERE NOT NECESSARILY WEST AFRICAN INGREDIENTS.

THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS, AND TO YOUR POINT ABOUT THE DEBATE IN THE RESTAURANT, THIS IS SO IMPORTANT FOR US TO REMEMBER, THAT BLACK FOOD WAYS IS NOT MONOLITHIC.

THERE ARE STILL DIFFERENT THINGS THAT COME TOGETHER TO MAKE THE PARTICULAR DISHES OR MAKE THOSE PREPARATIONS THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, WEST AFRICAN, INDIGENOUS -- CALLIE: INDIGENOUS IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

PAULA: REALLY IMPORTANT.

AND SO THE THINGS WE KNOW NOW COME TOGETHER AS A RESULT OF FORCED MIGRATION, ACCESS TO INDIGENOUS INGREDIENTS, AND ALSO PREPARATION TECHNIQUES.

ALL OF THOSE THINGS MAKE THE THING WE THING ABOUT AS BLACK FOOD, BUT IT IS SO DIVERSE.

CALLIE: UNDERNEATH THAT, TONY, WHAT YOU EXPRESSED IN TERMS OF HOW YOUR FAMILY COOKS AND HOW YOU PASSED DOWN THE RECIPES IS COMMUNAL, WHICH IS VERY AFRICAN.

THAT WHOLE SENSE OF COMMUNITY AND COMMUNAL LIVING REALLY INFLUENCED HOW THIS COMES TOGETHER IN THE END, WHICH I WILL NOW TASTE.

[LAUGHTER] I MEAN, HOW MUCH OF THIS DO YOU SELL IN THE RESTAURANT?

TONY: IT IS OUR NUMBER ONE SELLER.

CALLIE: MORE THAN THE FRIED CHICKEN?

TONY: AS A SIDE, THE NUMBER ONE SIDE.

FRIED CHICKEN IS NUMBER ONE FOR THE ENTREE.

CALLIE: THIS IS SO GOOD.

WHAT DO PEOPLE SAY OR LOVE ABOUT IT?

TONY: THE CREAMINESS.

YOU KNOW, IT IS NOT FLIPPING IN THE PAN, IT HAS MORE CREAMINESS.

IT MELTS DOWN AND YOU GET THAT LITTLE, UH, HOW CAN I SAY IT?

A SOFTNESS TO IT.

PAULA: THE DIFFERENT KINDS OF CHEESES, SLICED, SHREDDED, THE PARMESAN.

TONY: YES.

THE PARMESAN.

AND YOU CAN BE CREATIVE AND ADD MORE CHEESES.

IF YOU ARE TRYING TO -- CALLIE: THIS WILL ALWAYS BE ON THE MENU.

THERE ARE OTHER THINGS LIKE THE FRIED CHICKEN, OTHER SOUL FOOD CANDIED YAMS,.

ALL OF IT IS GOOD.

I PERSONALLY LOVE THE FRIED CATFISH.

[LAUGHTER] ARE Q FEELING STABLE NOW GOING FORWARD?

-- AYOU FEELING STABLE NOW GOING FORWARD?

TONY: WE ARE BATTLING, WE HAVE STAFFING ISSUES, SUPPLY CHAIN ISSUES.

CALLIE: IS THERE MORE ATTENTION BEING PAID TO BLACK RESTAURANTS?

TONY: YEAH.

IN BOSTON IT IS RECOMMENDED TO VISIT DIFFERENT RESTAURANTS EVERY MONTH, BLACK OWNED RESTAURANTS.

CALLIE: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS DELICIOUSNESS.

WE HAVE TRULY ENJOYED IT.

[LAUGHTER] TONY: YOU ARE WELCOME.

PAULA: I NEED TO COMBINE.

TONY: YES, YOU DO.

CALLIE: WE WILL SEE YOU LATER IN THE PROGRAM.

WELCOME BACK KWASI KWAA FROM COMFORT KITCHEN IN DORCHESTER.

BLACK OWNED, WOMEN-OWNED, AND IMMIGRANTS.

TELL US WHAT THAT MEANS.

KWASI: OUR CONCEPT IS INGREDIENTS NOT JUST FROM THE AFRICAN DIASPORA BUT SOUTH ASIAN, THE INTERSECTIONS OF WHERE THE FOOD AND THOSE INGREDIENTS MARRIED BASED ON THOSE TRADES, WHETHER IT WAS HUMAN TRADE, THE SPICE TRADE.

WE HAVE A DIVERSE TEAM.

MY PARTNER IS FROM NEPAL.

OUR SPOUSES ARE PARTNERS IN THE BUSINESS.

MY WIFE IS FROM PORTUGAL, HIS PARTNER IS FROM THE U.S.

HER BACKGROUND TRACES BACK TO THE CONGO.

SO, WE ARE ALWAYS EXPLORING DIFFERENT TYPES OF FOOD, DIFFERENT TYPES OF INGREDIENTS, AND HOW THEY ENDED UP, NOT JUST IN THE U.S.

BUT DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE WORLD.

AND IT'’S SOMETHING THAT IS SPECIAL TO US.

AND WE ARE VERY ADAMANT, YOU KNOW, FOR A VERY LONG TIME I FEEL LIKE NOT JUST BLACK FOOD, BUT BLACK AND BROWN IMMIGRANT FOOD IN GENERAL HAS NOT RECEIVED THE RESPECT THAT IT DESERVES.

SO WE ARE ALWAYS TRYING TO HIGHLIGHT AND TO CELEBRATE THOSE INGREDIENTS.

CALLIE: COMFORT KITCHEN IS PART OF A NEW WAVE, JUST AS KWASI: DESCRIBED, OF RESTAURANTS THAT ARE BLACK OWNED BUT HAVE SEVERAL INFLUENCES.

AND TELL US ABOUT THE RESEARCH YOU DID, EVEN BACK IN THE DAY -- WE THOUGHT ALL THE FOOD BEING MADE IN THOSE COMMUNITIES WAS ALL THE SAME, TRADITIONAL SOUL FOOD, BUT IT WASN'’T.

MUCH OF IT, AS YOU SAY WAS PRESCRIBED, VIA LIMITATIONS OF HOW FOLKS COULD MOVE AROUND, CLASS, WHICH IS INTERESTING.

TALK ABOUT THAT.

PAULA: ONE THING I WAS THINKING ABOUT, AND IT IS PERSONAL TO ME, IS THE WAY IN WHICH -- THE THING WE THING ABOUT AS TRADITIONAL SOUL FOOD COMES INTO OUR UNDERSTANDING AND LEXICON IN THE BLACK POWER ERA.

A MOMENT OF A KIND OF HUGE, CULTURAL EXPLOSION OF BLACK CULTURE.

AND THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN BLACK CULTURAL ARTIFACTS, TRADITIONS AND IDENTITY.

SO, IT IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT, BUT IT DID BECOME THIS VERY NARROW WAY OF THINKING, WHAT IF BLACK FOOD -- IS BLACK FOOD?

WHAT IS SOUL FOOD?

WHEN I AM IN THE CLASSROOM IT IS IMPORTANT CERTAINLY FOR STUDENTS TO UNDERSTAND THIS KIND OF -- TO UNDERSTAND THIS KIND OF MULTIETHNIC, MIXING HAPPENING IN THE QUIZZING, BUT ALSO IN CULTURE.

THERE'’S PREPARATIONS I THINK THAT OUR, UH, WEST AFRICAN.

ALTHOUGH, EVEN THOSE PREPARATIONS INTO SOME OF THOSE INGREDIENTS ARE WEST AFRICAN SORT OF DURING COLONIZATION.

SO, SOME OF THE THINGS, YOU KNOW, LIKE MAIZE FOR EXAMPLE IS GROWN IN WEST AFRICA IN THE 16TH CENTURY.

AND IT IS AN INDIGENOUS, AN AMERICAN INDIGENOUS CROP.

SO IT MAKES SENSE THAT THERE IS A KIND OF RELATIVELY NEW EMERGENCE OF THESE KIND OF OTHER BLACK CUISINES.

CALLIE: BUT IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THERE.

PAULA: RIGHT.

CALLIE: EXACTLY.

KWASI:, YOU ARE GOING TO PREPARE SOMETHING FOR US.

WHAT DO YOU HAVE FOR US?

KWASI: ON ONE OF OUR MENUS, WE WANTED TO CELEBRATE THE JERK MARINADE, WHICH WAS A PRESERVATION METHOD FOR THOSE TRIBES IN JAMAICA.

WE BASED A LOT OF DISHES ON A, BUT THIS IS A SIMPLE SLIDER SANDWICH.

BUT THE FOCUS IS ON THE JERK, TRYING TO CELEBRATE THE JERK.

FOLKS HAVE HAD JERK CHICKEN AND EVERYTHING ELSE, BUT WE WANTED TO CREATE A VEGETARIAN DISHES THAT COULD STILL CELEBRATE THE JERK, FOR FOLKS WHO MAY HAVE NEVER HAD IT.

I PERSONALLY LOVE JERK.

CALLIE: ME TOO.

PAULA: MAY 3.

CALLIE: YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SELL -- ME THREE.

CALLIE: YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SELL IT HERE.

[LAUGHTER] TONY: I LOVE THIS CONVERSATION -- KWASI: I LOVE THIS CONVERSATION BECAUSE IT IS TRUE, WHEN WE THINK ABOUT BLACK FOOD WE MIGHT JUST FOCUS ON SOUL FOOD, WHICH IS GREAT, BUT THERE IS SO MUCH INTERSECTIONALITY HAPPENING BETWEEN THE CULTURES.

AND WE ALWAYS TRIED TO PUT THOSE ON HER DISHES.

SO, THIS SANDWICH IS REALLY.

WE HAVE MARSALA -- SOME MARSALA -- NO, CORIANDER A GOALIE -- AOILI.

AND WE HAVE JACK FRUIT, WHICH WE MARINATE FOR A FOUR HOURS OR MORE.

WE SEAR IT, WARM IT, AND AT IT ON THE SANDWICH WITH PICKLED ONIONS AND ARUGULA.

CALLIE: BY THE WAY, AOILI IS A FANCY MAYONNAISE, FOR PEOPLE WHO DO NOT KNOW.

THAT BRINGS ME BACK TO 1825, THIS GENTLEMAN WAS -- HE STARTED IN OYSTER RESTAURANT.

WE WERE TALKING ABOUT FOLKS DOING OTHER KINDS OF CUISINE NOT TYPICALLY THOUGHT OF.

AND MOST OF HIS CLIENTELE WAS WHITE.

PAULA: YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THOMAS DOWNING.

IN NEW YORK CITY, FIVE POINTS.

HE ACTUALLY WAS THE SON OF ENSLAVED PARENTS FROM THE CHESAPEAKE BAY, WHERE BASICALLY OYSTERS -- CALLIE: IT MADE SENSE.

PAULA: WHERE OYSTER RAIN MADE SENSE.

AND NEW YORK HAD A LARGE BLACK MALE ORGANIZATION OF OYSTER MEN.

YES, THOMAS DOWNING OPENS UP THIS OYSTER PLACE.

HE HAS PREDOMINANTLY WHITE, ELITE CLIENTELE.

A LOT OF FRIENDS IN HIGH PLACES.

HE BECOMES RELATIVELY WEALTHY AS A RESULT OF THE RESTAURANT.

AND HE IS PART OF A NUMBER OF ANTI-SLAVERY ABOLITIONIST ORGANIZATIONS IN THE EARLY 19TH CENTURY IN NEW YORK, SOMETHING AKIN TO THE VIGILANCE COMMITTEE IN BOSTON.

CALLIE: THIS BLACK HISTORY IS SO RICH, THE SPECTRUM IS DEEP AND BROAD.

MAY BE SOME OVERLAP IN SOME AREAS, BUT YOU WILL GET A SURPRISE BY WHAT THE CHEF IS MAKING THERE.

I WANT TO TRICK YOU INTO TELLING US ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE DOING FOR THE FOOD NETWORK.

[LAUGHTER] TONY:KWASI: I CANNOT TALK ABOUT THAT, ACTUALLY.

PAULA: THAT IS EXCITING.

CALLIE: BUT IT TELLS ME THERE IS RECOGNITION FOR THIS FOOD.

CHEF, YOU ARE ALSO ATTENDING TO A TREND.

MORE THAN A TREND AT THIS POINT, PEOPLE LEANING INTO PLANT-BASED FOODS.

KWASI: VERY MUCH SO.

A LOT OF TIMES WHEN WE LOOK AT BLACK FOOD, WE LOOK AT CHICKEN, BUT THERE IS SO MUCH MORE COMPLEX THINGS HAPPENING.

AND ID THAT FOLKS ARE READY TO LEARN -- THNINK FOLKS ARE READY TO LEARN MORE.

OUR MAJOR FOCUS WHEN WE DEVELOP MENUS IS NOT ABOUT THE DISH ITSELF, IT IS ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THE INGREDIENTS.

ON OUR MENUS, WE HAVE A WHOLE PAGE DEDICATED TO FOOD HISTORY.

CALLIE: WONDERFUL.

KWASI: I DO NOT KNOW IF YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH HIGH ON THE HOG.

THAT IS ONE OF MY FAVORITES.

CALLIE: JESSICA HARRIS, YEAH.

KWASI: IT IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE BOOKS.

WHAT I TELL FOLKS IS OUR MENUS ARE MEANT TO REFLECT THE STORYLINE OF THAT BOOK.

CALLIE: IT WAS MADE INTO A SERIES.

KWASI: ON NETFLIX?

CALLIE: ON NETFLIX, YES.

JESSICA HARRIS, WE LIKE TO CALL HER LOCAL BECAUSE SHE DOES LIVE ON THE VINEYARD IN THE SUMMER.

A FOOD HISTORIAN.

BACK TO THE SPICES TRAVELING AROUND IN WHAT YOU CALL THE SPICE TRADE.

PEOPLE SHOULD ALSO KNOW FROM HOWARD FRENCH, WHOSE BOOK WAS "BORN IN BLACKNESS," THAT THE TRADE WAS BORN MORE FROM THE TRANSATLANTIC THAN THE AFRICAN SLAVE TRADE, BECAUSE THEY WERE LOOKING FOR GOLD.

THEN THEY DECIDED AFRICANS WERE GOLD, IN A DIFFERENT WAY.

BUT THAT IS WHERE YOU ALSO GET MIXING.

THEY WERE GRABBING AFRICANS OFF THE CONTINENT, BUT THEY CAME FROM DIFFERENT PLACES.

SO THERE WAS ANOTHER LAYER THERE, IN TERMS OF WHAT ETHICAL -- WHAT CULTURALLY THEY BROUGHT FROM INDIVIDUAL COUNTRIES.

PAULA: IT IS TRUE THE HISTORY OF BLACK FOOD WAYS, THAT THERE IS DENIAL OF FOOD, YOU KNOW.

CHRONIC MALNUTRITION AND HUNGER, ESPECIALLY IN ENSLAVED COMMUNITIES, BUT ALSO IN FREE COMMUNITIES.

BUT THERE IS ALSO CREATIVITY AND INGENUITY, GIVEN WHAT PEOPLE HAD IN HAND.

IT IS INTERESTING THAT THERE IS A MOVEMENT TO PLANT-BASED, BECAUSE SO MANY WEST AFRICAN DISHES AND HISTORICAL -- ARE VEGETARIAN OR VEGETABLE-BASED.

MEAT WAS REALLY USED AS A FLAVORING.

KWASI: I THINK IT WAS ALSO NOT ALWAYS AN AVAILABLE OPTION.

CALLIE: I AM GOING TO TAKE A BITE.

KWASI: PLEASE DO.

CALLIE: VERY YUMMY.

I LOVE ONIONS.

AND ANYTHING WITH MAYO.

THIS IS DELICIOUS.

HOW DO PEOPLE RESPOND?

I AM SURE VEGETARIANS ARE THRILLED.

KWASI: PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT VEGETARIAN ACTUALLY GRAVITATE TOWARDS IT A LOT.

IT IS A DIFFERENT PREPARATION METHOD.

FOR SOMETHING THAT IS GENERALLY ON THE SWEETER SIDE.

OR IT CAN BE TREATED ON THE SAVORY SPECTRUM.

CALLIE: AND IT IS SPICY.

KWASI: IT IS THE JERK MARINADE.

WE HAVE SEVEN DIFFERENT SPICES THAT GOES INTO THAT MARINADE.

CALLIE: I CAN EAT ANYTHING SPICY.

PAULA: DELICIOUS.

CALLIE: VERY GOOD.

I CALL THIS A MODERN TAKE, BECAUSE YOU CAN DEDUCE A TRADITIONAL DIASPORA FOR YOUR DISHES, BUT YOU CAN ALSO MOVE IN THIS DIRECTION.

THIS IS SOMETHING FAMILIAR TO PEOPLE, SLIDERS, BUT IT IS BRINGING HISTORY THAT MAY BE PEOPLE DID NOT KNOW.

YOU WERE AFFECTED BY COVID.

YOU ARE GOING TO OPEN IN 2020, BUT YOU DIDN'’T.

YOU HAVE ONLY BEEN OPEN A LITTLE OVER A MONTH.

BUT HOW ARE THINGS?

KWASI: THIS WILL BE OUR FOURTH WEEK.

CALLIE: HOW ARE YOU DOING?

KWASI: WE HAVE BEEN FORTUNATE TO BE ABLE TO BUILD A FOLLOWING DURING THE PANDEMIC THROUGH OUR POP-UPS AND RESIDENCY.

BUT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE BEEN JUST PLUGGING AWAY.

AND LIKE TONY SAID, THE GENERAL CHALLENGE IS STAFFING AND THE SHORTAGES.

WE ARE HANGING IN THERE AND MAKING IT WORK.

CALLIE: LET'’S BRING TONY BACK BEFORE WE GO.

THIS WAS A GREAT TRIP AROUND THE WORLD, IF YOU WILL, FOR A BLACK CUISINE.

PERFECT FOR BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

AND I WANT TO REMIND EVERYBODY THAT DOOR DASH INITIATED IDENTIFYING BLACK RESTAURANTS, SO IF YOU ARE ORDERING DELIVERY THERE IS THAT AS WELL.

A GOOD WAY FOR FOLKS TO FIND YOU.

AND I HOPE THAT THAT WORKS OUT FOR EVERYBODY.

THIS WAS GREAT.

NOTHING BAD ABOUT TALKING ABOUT BLACK HISTORY AND EATING.

KWASI: THAT IS RIGHT.

PAULA: THANK YOU.

CALLIE: THANK YOU, EVERYONE.

THAT IS THE END OF OUR SHOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

STAY WITH US ON OUR DIGITAL PLATFORMS, YOUTUBE AND FACEBOOK.

♪ ♪ ♪