- [Narrator] Funding for this edition of One-On-One with Steve Adubato has been provided by New Jersey Institute of Technology.

NJIT makes industry ready professionals in all STEM fields.

EJI, Excellence in Medicine Awards.

A New Jersey health foundation program.

Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.

Working to create a future where health is no longer a privilege, but a right.

The Fund for New Jersey.

The Turrell Fund, a foundation serving children.

Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey.

The New Jersey Economic Development Authority.

Community FoodBank of New Jersey.

And by New Jersey Public Charter Schools Association Promotional support provided by New Jersey Monthly.

The magazine of the Garden State, available at newsstands.

And by BestofNJ.com.

All New Jersey in one place.

- This is One-On-One.

- I'm an equal American just like you are.

- The way we change Presidents in this country is by voting.

- A quartet is already a jawn, it’s just The New Jawn.

- January 6th was not some sort of violent, crazy outlier.

- I don't care how good you are or how good you think you are, there is always something to learn.

- I mean what other country sends comedians over to embedded military to make them feel better.

- People call me 'cause they feel nobody's paying attention.

_ It’s not all about memorizing and getting information, it’s what you do with that information.

- (slowly) Start talking right now.

- That's a good question, high five.

(upbeat music) - Hi, everyone, Steve Adubato.

For the entire program, we're gonna be talking with a physician, a physician leader, who has made a huge difference in part of the world that a lot of us hear about, but may not really understand the devastation, pain, and suffering going on there.

He is Dr.

Adam Hamawy, and he's a medical director at Princeton Plastic Surgeons, and former United States Army Combat Surgeon.

Dr.

Hamawy, great to have you with us.

- Thank you for having me.

- You have served as a medical professional, as a surgeon, combat surgeon, in a variety of war zones, including... - I've been in Iraq, I've been in Gaza.

I was in Bosnia early on in '95.

So I've been around the periphery about the Syrian war and working with the refugees there for, you know, for about 10 years or so.

- So you've seen the worst of the worst.

- Yes.

- So we're taping on the 21st of October.

There's a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas, we don't know where things are gonna go.

We can hope and pray, that's actually not a strategy, hope and pray.

But Doctor, we have you on to talk about what you saw, what you experienced, and frankly, what the people of Gaza have experienced, and are continuing to experience as it relates to the pain, suffering, the death, and devastation that has gone on there.

Please talk to us.

- So, I mean, it's unfortunate that this has gone on for so long, and you know, even how you just kinda opened up and said there's a ceasefire with a bit of a doubt in your words, because unfortunately, that's what we've seen happen multiple times, is ceasefires, you know, are in place, and yet despite the ceasefire we're seeing right now, people are still suffering, you know?

And, I mean, war, unfortunately, is always horrible wherever you go, and you know, it impacts everyone that's there.

It impacts both sides always, there's always like losses.

But I've never been in a situation where I've seen so many civilians impacted in this way as I have in Gaza.

Unlike my experience at other places, has been a war that has really, you know, affected the regular people, regular men, women, and children.

It's supposed to be, you know, "Fighters fighting each other," you know, "Armies fighting each other," or "Someone fighting a militant."

But this has been a war against the people.

And it's gone on so long, and it's been right in front of our eyes.

And as Americans, it's hard to kind of see that, that this is something that we've allowed to happen under our watch, with our support, and with our full knowledge.

And so this is what's been more disappointing about this than anything else.

- Okay, so lemme try this.

We've had many folks on talking about, and again, it's the 21st of October, the graphic will come up, we don't know where things are gonna be, how they're gonna play out.

But the events of October 7th, two years ago, as we're doing this program, disgusting, horrific, indefensible, barbaric, by Hamas, no disagreement, correct?

- No disagreement.

- Okay.

But the thing you just said, Doctor, about we've let this happen under our nose, one of the things that has struck me, and I want you to talk about this because you don't see this from a geopolitical point of view, you don't see this from an ideological point of view.

You see it from a very human point of view as a physician who cares deeply.

And you also were in Iraq in 2004, if I'm not mistaken.

- Correct.

- You've gone to war zones consistently to make a difference.

So here's where I'm going with this.

It could be my sense alone, but I don't think I'm alone in this, that there's not enough empathy and compassion for the people, the civilians who have suffered.

And I hate saying on both sides, because that means certain things to certain people 'cause they've heard that expression before.

But Israelis have clearly suffered.

But those in Gaza, particularly children, have suffered disproportionately and horrifically.

Do you think too many of us, Americans, have closed our eyes?

"Keep it out there, it's not me, it's not my kid.

I'm not even connected to the Palestinian community."

So somehow we care less, or am I oversimplifying it?

- Well, I think the problem is thinking about it as both sides.

I mean, civilians are civilians.

They're really people who just go about their daily life, they just wanna live, you know?

They want to go to school, they wanna go to work, they want to put food their table, - Which is what people were doing on October 7th at a music concert.

- Well, that's what makes it horrible, right?

I mean, that's why we say it's horrible, is there's people that are just going about their daily life, and that was a horrible day, okay?

So if we accept that as the premise, okay, then it doesn't matter which side, and that's how we should be looking at it.

Civilians are civilians, they should be left out of this.

But October 8th onward, that's not what happened, because on the Palestinian side, there are civilians as well.

- Say something.

- Say something.

- No, don’t don’t repeat after me, say something.

Say hi.

- Say hi.

- Laughter.

- There are people who just want to put food on their table, go to work, go to school, live a happy life.

We always say that we love our freedom, they want to just to be free to live.

And we have not accepted their position on this because we see this as one side or the other.

But when you go there and you take care of these people, you see that they are just human beings.

They're human beings that have the same dreams that we do, you know?

They have children that are completely innocent, that will have been born into one war after the other.

And they measure time by the number of wars that they've gone through.

And yes, as Americans, we have not allowed ourself to kind of take that into account.

We're basically saying that these are... Whatever's happening is justified, which is not... You know, one horror does not justify another, one crime does not justify another.

And if we're also gonna go on the premise that, you know, this was a war crime or done by terrorists, does that allow a nation state to also act in that same manner?

Are we gonna just follow that rule?

Like whatever they do, we'll do as well, because then if we're calling them war criminals and we do the same thing, what makes us any different?

- Describe what you saw, what you experienced in those hospitals in Gaza.

- I experienced daily mass casualties.

These mass casualties were, you know, indiscriminate bombings on people who lived in tents, that were living in civilian structures and in regular homes, that basically injured entire families and extended families that came in at a time.

I mean, these weren't platoons that came in.

This was, you know, a mother and a father with their children, with their uncles, and often their grandparents, all coming in.

And we're talking about blast injuries from bombs that were made to destroy bunkers that are falling on tents.

A third of the people just dying on the site, completely destroyed and disintegrated, you know, many of them just buried under rubble.

And whoever survived that was brought to the emergency room, and many of them just died there.

And, you know, it was not uncommon for me to have parents that lived and all their children were killed, or children, like one or two children that were alive that were injured in serious condition, and their entire family is gone now, their parents, their uncles, you know, their grandparents, and they have no one else to go back to.

And this was on a daily basis?

- You went twice.

- I went twice.

- Why did you go the second time after what you saw the first time?

- Because it was clear that they needed help, and I had the ability to go.

I mean, there's so few that are allowed to enter Gaza.

- What do you mean allowed?

- Not everyone could enter, I mean, even most Israelis are not allowed to go into Gaza.

I mean, you talk to most Israelis- - Even today?

- Even today.

I mean, right now, the only people allowed... The only Israelis allowed are those that are, you know, Israeli, like military and fighters.

But you talk to most Israeli civilians, they're not allowed to go into Gaza, they haven't been into Gaza, they haven't seen what's going on in Gaza.

But even like now, like international, like obviously, journalists aren't allowed.

The only people allowed are humanitarian workers, including physicians and nurses.

And so because so few people are allowed to go, I mean, for me, I felt like it's an obligation if I had the ability and I can go in that I should, and especially since I have the skills to actually make a difference for a few people.

- Dr.

Hamawy, you have your own family?

- Yes.

- Children?

- I have four children - Ages?

- My son is 15, he's the youngest, and I have three daughters that are older, 19, 22, and 23 now.

- What did you tell them after you came back the first time?

- Be thankful for what you have.

I mean, not just from this, from all my experience in the past, from traveling and going to areas for natural disasters and war, we take for granted the simplest thing, having food on our table, we always tell this to our children.

But when you really are at a lack of even just regular food, having regular medicine, having like, you know, a roof on, like a real roof, and we're not talking about like a tent or you know, a blown out house where you're like living with one wall and some tarps that's giving you shelter.

These are simple things that we all have and take for granted that almost everyone in Gaza does not.

- When you were going back the second time, Doctor, were there people closest to you or close to you, including family members who said, "Don't go back?"

- Yes, even the first time of it.

But like, especially after, on going the second time because of, you know, every month is worse than the month before.

I mean, we've seen this just escalate over the last two years.

And, you know, people here at home, my family included, say, I mean, "You've done enough."

And my response is that, "We haven't done anything at all, it's still..." - You really believe that?

Do you really believe that you didn't do... When you say "we", do you include yourself?

- I do include myself.

You know, I was able- - What could you have done?

- Stay longer, go more often, speak out more.

Whatever we're doing, it's too little when you look at the price that's being paid, - Is it too late?

- It's never too late.

- Okay.

Describe for folks what's left in Gaza now.

What's there?

- There's still people there, okay?

So there are human beings that are still there, men, women, and children.

There's not much structure there.

I mean, if you drive through Gaza, you drive through miles that looks like you're in like a movie that's in the apocalypse, you see just destruction for miles driving on.

And people like wonder is like, are these shots that we see on TV, is this just like a close up, and you look to the right, everything is still standing?

No, if you drive through this destruction, that goes on and on.

You know, some of the few structures that are still standing are, you know, what's left of the hospitals, and you know, there's really no home that's been left untouched.

But the people are still there, and they need a place to basically live.

This is their home.

- So a 10-year-old kid, or a girl, going to school?

- No, all the schools have been destroyed.

- They've had two universities destroyed.

All the secondary and primary schools, none at all, so unless the parents are trying to teach them, which is hard to do because they're moving, they're constantly moving.

I mean, some people have moved six or seven times already, at least.

- Where are they going?

Where are they going, Doctor?

- Well, from one place to the other.

So they have to evacuate one area.

So they go from North Gaza to South Gaza, then from South Gaza they have to go to the shore to Mawasi.

Now, that's not safe again, you have to go back to North Gaza, then you have to move to Central Gaza.

You know, they're always giv evacuation orders and told to go somewhere up.

- What about the mosques and churches?

Are they safe?

- Mosques, mostly all of them been destroyed.

Some are partially standing, some completely leveled.

Churches, most of them have taken at least some form of damage, if not destroyed at all.

Every single hospital in Gaza, and I think there's 30 something, has been hit and, you know, received some sort of destruction and has actually been invaded and occupied at one point or another.

And it's basically like playing whack-a-mole.

They take out one hospital, it's out of commission, it's sabotaged and destroyed, and then they move on to the next one, and then the Palestinians move in and they try to rebuild it and make it more functioning again, each time to a lesser degree than it was before.

- What about food?

- Scarce.

Scarce, when I was there, I lost 10 pounds, and I was there for three weeks, and I had my own food.

I had Powerbars with me.

And you know, they fed us like guests, so oftentimes, at their own expense.

- Are people actively starving right now?

- Yes, they were actively starving last year in 2024.

We're just seeing now a year and a half of this.

- So yes, we're taping on the 21st of October, a ceasefire, again, don't know how it's gonna play out.

Were any of your colleagues, medical colleagues, doctors, arrested?

- No, no one was arrested.

- Was there any- - None that I traveled with.

I know there's been many medical professionals over the last two years, but no one that I know or have traveled with has been arrested.

- What do you believe people watching right now- - Could I... I'm going to just- - You don't have to ask, just say it.

- I'm making the assumption that you're asking about, you know, Americans, foreign travelers.

I mean, I would say my Palestinian colleagues, many of them have been arrested, and there's- - Why?

- We would love to know why.

There's been no really, you know, explanation given.

I mean, I could give you a list of names and you know, the WHO and United Nations, and multiple humanitarian organizations have all- - WHO, the World Health Organization, you're saying Palestinian doctors have been arrested.

- Correct.

- And you don't even know if they're out?

- They're still under custody.

Many of them are being tortured because some have been released and they've been released after torture, and we haven't heard from them.

And this is- - But the ceasefire does not... What does the ceasefire say about what should happen to those Palestinian physicians?

- Well, there have been requests to release them, and many of them are still in custody.

I mean, they're- - Yeah.

- We haven't heard.

- Yeah, what would you say to those watching who argue that this has always been a battle against good versus evil, and the evil is Hamas, and Hamas did what it did on October 7th, two years ago, as we do this program.

And that, quote, "Everything after that," and again, like you touched on this earlier, but I want you to touch on it again, Dr.

Hamawy, that after Hamas did the horrific, disgusting, barbaric things, and held hostages innocent people, that everything else is fair game.

It's good versus evil, and they are the evil.

- But it seems that we're doing, you know, equally evil if not more evil actions.

So, you know, I think you just have to really examine yourself.

You have to look at where your information's coming from, and really do your own research.

I mean, the information is out there, and there's a lot of talk about fake news, okay?

But what, you know, I've been advocating, and we've all been advocating right now, and it's like, why are journalists not allowed to go into Gaza?

Why are third-party, you know, not involved, you know, actors not allowed to go in and observe what's happening?

We've been asking for this from day one, and- - From whom?

Who have you been asking?

- We've been asking basically for the Israelis to allow third-party observers to come in.

- And what's the response?

- Response is "No".

I mean, the only third-party people there are the doctors themselves.

And we've unanimously coming out and telling the story about what's happening.

Same thing with the humanitarian organizations, and it's being dismissed by the Israelis.

So, you know, Hamas is gonna give their story, okay, and we could disregard it if we want to.

But the Israelis are also giving their narrative and their story, and they have their own interests involved.

So like, I would dismiss that just as easily, like since when do we just take one side of a story?

We need someone to go in there and take a look at what's happening.

We've been providing this, but we're not professional journalists and like, you know, third-party monitors, and we're not going to investigate.

We're we're there to provide care, and like our second job, yeah, is to kind of tell the world of what's happening.

- How have you been able to go back, given that you were there twice, you saw what you saw, you experienced what you experienced, you saw horrific, unimaginable suffering, devastation, death, destruction?

How do you do what you do every day at Princeton Plastic Surgeons as the medical director?

How have you been able to do that?

I mean, I'm not your therapist, and my doctor is not in psychology or say, obviously, I'm not a psychiatrist, but how are you doing what you're doing?

- It's hard, I mean, honestly, it's changed my life, it's changed my priorities, and my goal is always what I could do next, when's the next time I could go?

You know, I have an obligation to my family and to people who rely on me here.

So I need to take care of them.

But I have to go back.

- You're saying you'd go back?

- I would go back again in a heartbeat, yes.

- So the ceasefire has not stopped the suffering.

Correct?

- There is so much care now.

I mean, there is so much suffering.

There are people that have been injured.

There's still people that are starving, they don't have the food that needs to go in.

I was actually there, when I went the second time, so the second time I went in January of this year was during that ceasefire, okay?

So I actually went in during that first ceasefire earlier this year- - January of '25.

- Of '25.

I had so much work because of all the backed up surgeries and care that hadn't been provided in the previous year, that I worked nonstop the time I was there.

The first day I was there, basically from nine o'clock in the morning till 10 o'clock at night, I had a lineup of patients that needed to be taken care of, whether it's because they had previous trauma that needed revisions and reconstruction, they had old wounds that had to be taken care of.

I had children that had been born with cleft lips and palates that hadn't been taken care of for a couple years now.

And I had other people that had other things that just had been, you know, skin cancers, things that had been piling up that need to be taken care of.

But because of all the trauma and what's been happening, had been just, you know, left and disregarded.

So just because the war stopped doesn't mean they don't need care.

Plus, we talked about the doctors that have been taken away.

There's obviously people that had left early on, and there's people that have been killed.

So their infrastructure for healthcare is gone.

They need outside help.

Doctors, nurses, just supplies for medicine, the work hasn't stopped just because there's a ceasefire.

- Got a minute left.

What could someone watching right now do if they wanted to be helpful?

- We could donate, we could speak out.

We could say to our representatives, "Listen, we don't want our tax dollars going to hurting and killing innocent civilians no matter who they are in the world."

We need to kind of look at our own values and our own morals and say, "Is this what we stand for?

Is this who we want to be known as, you know, as the country basically, that supplied and financed this genocide that's happening today?"

- You believe it is a genocide?

- I saw that it's a genocide.

- Dr.

Adam Hamawy, who's medical director of Princeton Plastic Surgeons, former United States Army Combat Surgeon, thank you for being with us.

We appreciate it, Doctor, and wish you all the best, and to your family as well, and to the people you'll continue to help.

Thank you, Doctor.

- Thank you very much for having me, thank you.

- Got it.

I'm Steve Adubato, we'll see you next time.

- [Narrator] One-On-One with Steve Adubato is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by New Jersey Institute of Technology.

EJI, Excellence in Medicine Awards.

A New Jersey health foundation program.

Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.

The Fund for New Jersey.

The Turrell Fund, a foundation serving children.

Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey.

The New Jersey Economic Development Authority.

Community FoodBank of New Jersey.

And by New Jersey Public Charter Schools Association Promotional support provided by New Jersey Monthly.

And by BestofNJ.com.

- (Narrator) This holiday season, the Community Food Bank of New Jersey the state's largest anti-hunger, anti-poverty organization, together with the hundreds of food pantries, soup kitchens and nutrition programs it serves is calling on all of us to unite.

Unite to end hunger.

Together we can make the holidays brighter for our New Jersey neighbors in need and help build a food secure future for our state.

New Jersey, now is the time.

Unite to end hunger.