>> RUSSIA'S INVASION OF UKRAINE IS NO MORE THAN A YEAR-OLD WITH LITTLE SIGN OF ANY RESOLUTION IN THE FUTURE.

THE U.S. IS GIVEN MILLIONS TO PUSH THE INVADING RUSSIAN BACK.

HOW MUCH MORE MEDITATE?

CHUCK HAGEL SAID THAT THE UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF DEFENSE UNDER THE OBAMA MENSTRUATION 2013-15.

UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO FOR A SOLD-OUT LECTURE ON THE CURRENT STATE OF AFFAIRS IN UKRAINE AND THE FUTURE OF LIBERAL DEMOCRACY.

JOINING US NOW WITH MORE ON THIS IS FORMER U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY CHUCK HAGEL.

SECRETARY HAGEL THINK MIKE FOR BEING HERE ON CHICAGO TONIGHT.

IT IS GOOD TO TALK TO YOU AGAIN.

AS WE MENTIONED MORE THAN A YEAR AND THE RUSSIA UKRAINE WERE.

UKRAINE HAS WON BACK SOME OF THE TERRITORY THAT WAS OCCUPIED THE HOW WOULD YOU ASSESS THE SITUATION ON THE GROUND RIGHT NOW?

>> LET ME START WITH THIS OBSERVATION.

THIS ILLEGAL MASSACRE OF INNOCENT PEOPLE, INVASION OF A SOVEREIGN NATION BY PRESIDENT PUTIN AND THE RUSSIANS.

IS ONE OF THE MOST DANGEROUS CHALLENGE TO GLOBAL WORLD ORDER TO BUILD AFTER WORLD WAR II WE HAVE SEEN.

THAT WORLD ORDER WAS BASED ON LAW AND ORDER.

COMMON INTEREST, IT PRODUCED INSTITUTIONS LIKE THE UNITED NATIONS, IMF, THE WORLD BANK AND TRADE.

NOT PERFECT, IT MAKES MISTAKES CAN'T FIX ALL THE PROBLEMS.

BUT THIS IS WHAT THIS WAR IS REALLY ABOUT.

AND IF PUTIN IS SUCCESSFUL IT WILL CHANGE ENTIRE NOT ONLY GLOBAL ORDER.

NOT JUST IN EUROPE BUT INDO PACIFIC EVERYWHERE.

AND IT WILL BREAK THAT ORDER UP INTO A WORLD THAT IS VERY FRACTURED.

MUCH LIKE WE SAW BEFORE WORLD WAR I AND WORLD WAR II.

BUT THIS IS A FORMER DANGEROUS.

>> AND POSSIBLY THE WORLD NOT DEPENDENT ON WESTERN LIBERAL DEMOCRACY.

TO THAT EFFECT YOU SAW THE MEETING BETWEEN CHINESE PRESIDENT XI AND VLADIMIR PUTIN.

SHOULD AMERICANS BE WORRIED ABOUT THAT ALLIANCE?

>> AMERICANS SHOULD BE IN AN OF THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS.

OVER AT THAT ALLIANCE.

ALL NATIONS ALWAYS RESPOND TO THEIR OWN SELF INTEREST.

THAT IS NOT NEW IT IS NOT THAT.

BASICALLY BECAUSE CONSISTENT WITH THAT.

BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THOSE TWO COUNTRIES CHINA AND RUSSIA.

IN MANY WAYS THEY NEED EACH OTHER THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN CLOSE.

HISTORICALLY NEVER BEEN CLOSE.

ACTUALLY ENEMIES.

BUT NEITHER HAS ALLIES.

YOU THINK OF WHAT ARE RUSSIA'S ALLIES?

WHO ARE CHINA'S ALLIES?

IRAN?

NORTH KOREA?

BELARUS?

THESE TWO NATIONS FOR THEIR OWN INTEREST NOT NECESSARILY FOR EACH OTHER'S INTEREST.

ARE COMING TOGETHER AT A TIME WHEN THE WORLD IS SEEN THIS.

EVEN THOUGH CHINA IS HOLDING BACK AND IS NOT FULLY ENDORSING THE INVASION OF MR. PUTIN INTO UKRAINE.

BUT THAT IS THE WAY THE WORLD IS TODAY.

IT IS A WORLD THAT IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE HAVE EVER SEEN.

IT IS INTERCONNECTED.

WE HAVE DIFFERENT KINDS OF RELATIONSHIP.

THERE IS NOT A COUNTRY IN THE WORLD THAT IS NOT BEEN AFFECTED BY THE UKRAINIAN WORLD.

WHETHER IT IS TRADE, WHETHER IT IS ENERGY, WHETHER POLICY, SECURITY, RELATIONSHIPS.

EVERYONE IS CONNECTED.

AND THE CHINESE ARE VERY SMART ABOUT THAT.

WHERE PUTIN IS ON HIS KNEES'S ECONOMY IS BEING DEVASTATED.

'S MILITARY IS BEING DEVASTATED.

STILL DANGEROUS HAS THE MOST NUCLEAR WEAPONS OF ANY COUNTRY.

THEY NEED EACH OTHER FOR THEIR OWN REASONS.

>> CHINA IN THE NEWS TODAY THE CEO OF THE CHINESE BASED PHONE APP TIKTOK OR SOCIAL MEDIA APPS GETTING A GRUELING.

A BIPARTISAN GRILLING INCLUDING PRESIDENT BIDEN BELIEVED THAT TIKTOK IS SOMEHOW DE FACTO SPY FOR THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT AND CAN TAKE AMERICANS INFORMATION TO THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT.

DO YOU VIEW TIKTOK AS A NATIONAL SECURITY THREAT?

>> Chuck Hagel: I THINK THERE ARE NATIONAL SECURITY INTEREST INVOLVED AND THERE ARE ELEMENTS.

I DID NOT HEAR THE ENTIRE HEARING OR THE PRESIDENT OF TIKTOK'S TESTIMONY BUT I HEARD A LOT OF THE QUESTIONS.

THEY WERE VERY RELEVANT.

WE KNOW THAT CHINA IS A MASTER AT STEALING OUR SECRETS.

THEY ARE MASTERS BECAUSE THEY CONTROL THEIR INTEREST THEY CONTROL THEIR COUNTRIES.

AND SO THAT IS A THREAT.

HOW SPECIFICALLY IS TIKTOK IN THAT ENVIRONMENT UNDER THE MANAGEMENT OF CHINESE INTELLIGENCE?

I SUSPECT SOME OF THAT IS TRUE.

IS IT AS TRUE AS MANY ON THE COMMITTEE SAID IT IS?

I DON'T KNOW, I DON'T KNOW THE REALITY.

BUT IT GETS TO THE BIGGER POINT TO ME.

WHERE AMERICA'S MIND IS ON ALL OF THIS.

WHERE POLITICAL LEADERS ARE?

VERY SUSPICIOUS IN MANY WAYS WE ARE IN TWO WARS OVER ILL ADVISED WE LOST ONE OF THEM WE HAD TO GET OUT OF AFGHANISTAN IN A TERRIBLE WAY.

AMERICAN IS OFF BALANCE ABOUT ALL OF THIS.

YOU START TALKING ABOUT TIKTOK SPYING ON AMERICANS AND COLLECTING YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION.

TIKTOK IS NOT GOING ANYWHERE.

NOT THE ONLY SOCIAL MEDIA.

WE KNOW THAT IS GOING ON.

>> ANY OF THOSE AND FOLKS ARE CONCERNED ABOUT ELON MUSK.

I WANT TO ASK YOU BECAUSE YOUR SPEECH TOMORROW YOUR LECTURE TOMORROW ON THE FORMER AMBASSADOR TO RUSSIA YOU TALK ABOUT THE FUTURE OF LIBERAL DEMOCRACY.

THERE IS A SITUATION IN ISRAEL RIGHT NOW WHERE FOLKS ARE PROTESTING WHAT LOOKS TO BE THE FLOODING OF DEMOCRACY.

PRESIDENT BENJAMIN.AND YET WHO WOULD ERODE THE POWER OF THE COURTS THERE.

HE IS BASING HIS OWN CHARGES.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE SITUATION THERE?

SHOULD WE BE CONCERNED OF WHAT IS HAPPENING?

>> Chuck Hagel: I THINK IT IS DANGEROUS FOR ISRAEL.

INDIRECTLY IT IS DANGEROUS FOR US.

BECAUSE WE ARE ISRAEL'S BIGGEST, STRONGER SUPPORTER AND WE HAVE BEEN.

THERE ARE ON THE SIGNED DOCUMENTS ARE CREATED ISRAEL.

BUT IN THAT DOCUMENT CREATED A TWO STATE SOLUTION.

THE PALESTINIANS WOULD HAVE THEIR GROUP AND ISRAEL.

WHAT BENJAMIN NOT IN YAHOO AND HIS RIGHT WING ARE DOING.

NETANYAHU HAS DONE THAT BUT NOW IT IS EVEN MORE DANGEROUS BECAUSE IT IS THE FAR RIGHT.

AND WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS TRYING TO MINIMIZE THE INDEPENDENCE OF THE JUDICIARY.

NOT LIKE OUR SYSTEM THAT HAS BEEN.

THAT IS LIKE OUR SYSTEM.

COEQUAL BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT LIKE WE HAVE EXECUTIVE, THE CONGRESS AND THE JUDICIARY ALL THREE COEQUAL BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT.

SO THE CONSEQUENCES OF WHAT THEY ARE DOING AND WHAT NETANYAHU IS SPECIFICALLY DOING I THINK IS VERY DANGEROUS AND ILL-ADVISED.

>> Paris: AND CLEAR CHINA TRIED TO CONSOLIDATE HIS POWER OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH OVER THE JUDICIARY.

>> Chuck Hagel: AND AS HE HAS CONSOLIDATED POWER AS HE TAKES A THIRD TERM THAT'S NEVER BEEN DONE IN CHINA.

A MASSIVE, POWERFUL SELF-PROCLAIMED COMMUNIST PARTY.

NOT TO THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA AND THEIR GOVERNMENT.

BUT THROUGH THE COMMUNIST PARTY AND IN HIS INDIVIDUAL POLITICS.

PUTIN HAS BEEN DOING THE SAME THING IN RUSSIA.

NOW WE ARE SEEING NETANYAHU DO THIS IN A BOLD WAY.

I THINK PART OF IT IS AS YOU HAVE SAID HE IS IN TROUBLE.

AND I THINK HE IS TRYING TO INSULATE HIMSELF FROM CORRUPTION CHARGES AND THEY ARE STILL HANGING.

HE COULD BE SENT TO JAIL.

THERE IS ALL THAT IN THE MIX PLUS THE DANGEROUS ELEMENTS WE ARE SEEING MORE OF.

PROBABLY MORE DANGEROUS THAN WE HAVE SEEN IN 20 YEARS THE MIDDLE EAST SITUATION.

IN GAZA, THE WEST BANK AND ISRAEL.