WITH EARLY VOTING HAPPENING IN THE UNITED STATES, CANDIDATES TRUMP AND HARRIS ARE REACHING OUT TO LATINO VOTERS IN SWING STATES BUT AS THE DATE NEARS THE FEARS ARE GROWING ABOUT HOW THE COUNTRY WILL GO WITH WHAT COULD BE A CLOSE RESULT ESPECIALLY IN A KEY STATE LIKE PENNSYLVANIA WHICH MAY NOT BE ABLE TO ANNOUNCE A FINAL TALLY UNTIL DAYS AFTER NOVEMBER 5.

THE FORMING ACTING SOLICITOR GENERAL, TALKS ABOUT WHAT THE CONVERSATION IS PART OF THE ONGOING INITIATIVE WITH REPORTS ON THREATS TO DEMOCRACY THE IMPACT OF CHANGES TO VOTING LAWS AND WHAT CITIZENS NEED TO KNOW CALL PRESERVING DEMOCRACY.

>> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

HE WROTE IN A RECENT OP-ED FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES, IN CASE OF ELECTION CRISIS, THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW.

YOU ARE WARNING VIGILANCE AHEAD OF THIS.

>> LOOK, I'M NORMALLY SOMEONE WHO URGES CALM AND THINKS MOST POLITICAL REACTIONS ARE OVERBLOWN IN THE COUNTRY BUT THIS IS ONE IN WHICH I FEEL THE OPPOSITE.

I DON'T THINK AMERICANS ARE THINKING THROUGH WHAT DONALD TRUMP HAS SAID OR WHAT HE DID BEFORE IN 2020 OR HOW ALL OF THIS RELATES TO THE LAW AROUND THE ELECTIONS AND WHAT UNFORTUNATELY COULD TAKE PLACE ON NOVEMBER 5 AND THE DAYS AFTERWARD.

SO YOU KNOW, I THINK WE ARE LOOKING AT THE POSSIBILITY OF A SERIOUS CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS.

ONE THAT MAKES JANUARY 6, 2021 LOOK LIKE A DRESS REHEARSAL AND I HOPE I'M WRONG ABOUT THAT AND I COULD BE WRONG ABOUT IT BUT EVERY INDICATION THAT DONALD TRUMP HAS GIVEN IS THAT HE WILL FIGHT AND CONTEST THE ELECTION EVEN IF HE OUTRIGHT LOSES AND THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED LAST TIME.

>> WHAT IF SOMEONE IS WATCHING THE SAYS OF COURSE , HE WAS ACTING DURING THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION.

THIS IS A PARTISAN TAKE.

>> THIS ISN'T A PARTISAN THING.

I'M NOT EVEN A PARTICULARLY PARTISAN GUY.

I'M VERY MUCH A CENTRIST BUT I BELIEVE DEEPLY IN THE RULE OF LAW AND I SAW WHAT HAPPENED ON JANUARY 6, 2021 AND IT DEVASTATED ME.

THE ESSENCE OF THE COUNTRY IS THE RULE OF LAW AND THE PEACEFUL TRANSFER OF POWER AND WHEN YOU HAVE DONALD TRUMP NOW RUNNING AND CANNOT ADMIT HE LOST, HIS VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE, JD VANCE WHO SAYS IN THE PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE, HE CAN'T ADMIT THAT TRUMP LOST IN 2020.

ALL OF THIS IS AN INDICATION OF WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN OVER THE NEXT MONTH AND IF HARRIS HAD SAID SIMILAR THINGS THAT SHE ENACTED IN SIMILAR WAYS YOU'D BE FIRST --I'D BE THE FIRST PERSON OUT THERE SAYING THIS AS JUST AS BAD.

THE PEACEFUL TRANSFER OF POWER, THE RIGHT TO VOTE ARE ENDURING AMERICAN VALUES THAT AREN'T ABOUT PARTY.

>> WHAT ABOUT PEOPLE WHO MAY NOT HAVE RECOLLECTION?

WHAT WERE THE LEGAL AND CHALLENGES THAT HE IS POSED AFTER THE ELECTION WHAT HAPPENED TO THOSE CHALLENGES?

>> IN 2020 DONALD TRUMP LOST THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE 306-232.

YOU NEED 270 VOTES TO WIN SO HE HAD TO FILE CHALLENGES IN HAVE A HOPE OF OVERTURNING THE ELECTION AND HE DID SO.

HE DID IN STATE COURT AND FEDERAL COURT AND GOT 62 DIFFERENT CASES AND HE LOST THEM ALL BUT HE STILL TRIED HE PRESSURED STATE LEGISLATURES AND GOVERNORS TO TRY AND THROW OUT THE VOTES AND HAVE FAKE SLATES FOR ELECTORS AND THINGS LIKE THAT AND THEN HE PRESSURED LOCAL OFFICIALS, STATE ELECTION BOARDS TO TRY TO THROW OUT INDIVIDUAL VOTES IN VARIOUS COUNTIES ALL WITH THE HOPE OF TRYING TO FLIP SEVERAL DIFFERENT STATES AND WHEN ALL OF THAT FAILED HE WENT TO CONGRESS.

CONGRESS ON JANUARY 6 HAS THE DUTY TO OPEN ALL OF THE ELECTORAL VOTES AND COUNT THEM SO WHAT HE TRIED TO DO WAS HAVE HIS VICE PRESIDENT IMPUGN THE VOTE AND THROW OUT THE VOTES OF CERTAIN STATES.

VICE PRESIDENT PENTZ REFUSED TO DO THAT AND NONETHELESS TO DO THAT AND TAKE UP THE VOTING OBJECTIONS THAT THEY DID SO AGAINST THE BACKDROP WHERE THEY HAD TO RUN THE TABLE BECAUSE THERE ARE 306 VOTES THAT BIDEN HAD.

HE HAD SUCH A MARGIN THEY COULD NOT JUST IMPUGN THE ELECTION INTEGRITY IN ONE STATE OR TWO BUT IT HAD TO BE MANY.

THE WORRIED THIS TIME AROUND IS THAT THE ELECTION COULD BE CLOSER IN THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE IN ANY ONE STATE THAT MIGHT SWING THE ELECTION AND IF THAT IS THE CASE THAT ANYONE COURT DECISION OR A DECISION BY CONGRESS ON JANUARY 6 TO THROW OUT ANYONE STATES VOTES ALL OF THAT COULD SWING THE ELECTION.

IT'S THE CASE THAT CONGRESS IN 2022 PAST SOMETHING IMPORTANT, TRYING TO PREVENT THAT AND MY VIEW IS THAT IT SHOULD PREVENT IT, THE LAW IS WRITTEN IN SUCH A WAY TO STOP THE BOGUS OBJECTIONS BUT THE QUESTION IS, THE LAW IS ONLY AS GOOD AS THE PEOPLE APPLYING IT AND TRYING TO ENFORCE IT AND IF YOU HAVE SOME FAITHLESS ACTORS IN THIS SYSTEM IN CONGRESS OR ELSEWHERE YOU COULD HAVE DEEP CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS.

>> RIGHT NOW THE PUBLIC PERCEPTION OF THE IMPARTIALITY OF THE SUPREME COURT IS PROBABLY AT ITS LOWEST POINT IN OUR LIFETIMES IF SOMETHING LIKE THIS HAS TO BE ADJUDICATED BY THE SUPREME COURT PEOPLE AUTOMATICALLY SAY YOU KNOW WHAT, THESE JUSTICES ARE X AND Y IDEOLOGICALLY AND THIS IS JUST ANOTHER SIGN OF A GOVERNMENT ILLEGITIMATE IN ITS DIFFERENT COURSES AND ARE NO LONGER REPRESENTATIVE OF MY VIEW OR THE PEOPLE'S VIEW.

>> I WANT TO SAY TWO THINGS ABOUT THIS.

WE MAY NOT GET TO THE SUPREME COURT BECAUSE CONGRESS ON JANUARY 6 MAY THROUGHOUT THE VOTES FROM A PARTICULAR STATE AND EVEN IF IT IS CHALLENGED BY VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS, THE POSITION THAT'S A POLITICAL QUESTION AND NOT SOMETHING FOR THE COURTS TO DECIDE AT ALL AND LEAVE THE JUDGMENT IN PLACE OF STRIKING OUT PENNSYLVANIA WITH A 25 ELECTORAL VOTES OR SOMETHING LIKE IT SO WE MAY NOT GET TO A DECISION OF MERIT BUT THE SUPREME COURT, THAT IS .1 AND .2, I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT TO POINT TO THE KIND OF POLLS AND SAY THAT THE SUPREME COURT IS AT ITS LOWEST CREDIBILITY IN OUR LIFETIMES AND THAT WORRIES ME.

ONE OF MY FIRST CASES, I WAS A JUNIOR LAWYER IN 2000 AND I REMEMBER, PHYSICALLY, ON DECEMBER 12 THE SUPREME COURT RULED AGAINST VICE PRESIDENT GORE AND HE RIGHT AWAY SAID, THE SUPREME COURT HAS SPOKEN AND I'M GOING TO GO CONCEDE.

THAT DEMONSTRATED THE REVERENCE HE HAD IN THE COUNTRY HAD IN THE PARTY HAD FOR THE SUPREME COURT.

HE MIGHT HAVE DISAGREED WITH THAT DECISION BUT HE ACCEPTED I'M WORRIED THAT EVEN IF THE COURT TODAY ACTS IN A NONPARTISAN WAY HAVE OF THE COUNTRY WILL NOT VIEW IT THAT WAY AND THAT'S SCARY BECAUSE THE SUPREME COURT HAS BEEN A STABILIZING INFLUENCE LIKE IN 2000 AND PLAYING THE ROLE IN OUR DEMOCRACY AND AGAIN, I DISAGREED WITH HOW THEY DECIDED THESE THINGS ON DECEMBER 12 BUT I AND AMERICANS RESPECTED IT AND MOVED ON.

>> WE ESTABLISHED THERE HASN'T BEEN ANY EVIDENCE OF WIDESPREAD VOTER FRAUD OF THE TACTICS THAT THE TEAM TOOK THROUGH THESE LEGAL CHALLENGES AND ELECTORAL CHALLENGES IT DIDN'T WORK IN THEIR FAVOR YET, HERE WE ARE FOUR YEARS LATER IN THERE SEEMS TO BE A SIGNIFICANT GAP BETWEEN WHAT HAPPENED AND THE PERCEPTION .

THERE'S A QUOTE YOU HAVE HERE, THE ROADS ARE NO LONGER AMATEURS.

THEY SPENT THE LAST FOUR YEARS GOING PRO , DEVISING A STRATEGY ACROSS MULTIPLE FRONTS, STATE EXECUTIVE BRANCHES AND ELECTION JUDGES TO OVERTURN ANY CLOSE ELECTION.

EXPLAIN THE KIND OF GOING FORWARD?

>> AS I SAID I'M NOT A PARTICULARLY POLITICAL PERSON BUT I'VE WATCHED WHAT HAPPENED TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY WHICH USED TO STAND FOR LAW AND ORDER AND STAND FOR THE RIGHT TO VOTE I HAD THE PRIVILEGE OF ARGUING THE VOTING RIGHTS CASE IN THE SUPREME COURT AND IT HAD BEEN REAUTHORIZED RECENTLY 421 TO 3 IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND 98-0 IN THE SENATE.

THAT IS THE REVERENCE WITH WHICH BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES TOOK THE RIGHT TO VOTE JUST A FEW SHORT YEARS AGO AND UNFORTUNATELY WHAT'S HAPPENED OVER THE LAST YEARS IS THAT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAS PURGED MANY OF ITS MEMBERS WHO HAVE TRIED TO SAY HEY, YOU KNOW, THAT IS NOT AMERICA THAT IS NOT THE DEMOCRATIC WAY OR THE PEACEFUL TRANSFER OF POWER.

JUST LOOK AT THE IMAGES THAT WENT AROUND THE WORLD OF WHAT HAPPENED AT THE CAPITAL AND UNFORTUNATELY THEY ARE NOW NOT PART OF THE PARTY SO SOME OF THE INSTITUTIONAL CHECKS WE HAD LAST TIME AROUND, VICE PRESIDENT PENTZ WHO ON JANUARY 6, 2021 PLAYED AN IMPORTANT ROLE.

PEOPLE LIKE THAT AREN'T THERE BUT INSTEAD YOU'VE GOT PEOPLE LIKE JD VANCE TO REPLACE PENTZ WHO ARE FULLY IN ON YOU KNOW, THE NOTION THAT DONALD TRUMP WON IN 2020 AND IF YOU BELIEVE THAT THEN YOU WILL CERTAINLY BELIEVE IN 2024 NOW WHATEVER ELECTION NONSENSE HE COOKS UP AND THAT IS WHAT WILL LEAD TO WHAT I FEAR IS THIS CRISIS IN THE STATE LEGISLATURES AND GOVERNORS MANSIONS AND IN THE UNITED STATES CONGRESS AND IN THE COURTS BOTH STATE AND FEDERAL.

>> WE WERE HAVING THIS ELECTION, THERE ARE DIFFERENT LAWSUITS CHALLENGING DIFFERENT ELEMENTS OF HOW THE VOTE IS COUNTED AND WHICH DISTRICTS COUNT SO WALK US THROUGH SOME OF THIS AND WHAT IS THE STRATEGIC BENEFIT OF DOING THIS?

>> THERE'S AT LEAST 90 DIFFERENT LAWSUITS THAT HAVE BEEN FILED WHICH IS ABOUT 300% FROM 2020 SOME OF THEM CHALLENGING NEW PROCEDURES IN VOTING LIKE THE ELIMINATION OF THE MAIL DROP BOX BALLOTS FOR THE INCLUSION OF VOTER ID LAWS LIKE IN NORTH CAROLINA.

SOME OF THEM ARE CHALLENGING SOME NEW PRACTICE THAT'S COME IN AS A RESULT OF THE LAW AND SOME ARE SAYING THE LAW HAS CHANGED AND THAT THE NEW PRACTICE AUTHORIZED BY LEGISLATURE HAS NOT BEEN FULLY IMPLEMENTED SO THEY ARE FAILING ON THE JOB EITHER FOR EXAMPLE RESTRICTING MAIL-IN BALLOTS OR PERMITTING THEM SO YOU'VE GOT THOSE KINDS OF CHALLENGES THEN YOU HAVE WELL, WE WILL SEE ON THE ACTUAL EXECUTION OF VOTING ON THAT DAY WHETHER THERE ARE POLLING PLACES THAT ARE OPEN TOO LONG OR TOO SHORT OR IF THERE IS ANY SORT OF NATURAL DISASTERS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT WHICH KEEP THE POLLS CLOSED OR OPEN ANY NUMBER OF POSSIBILITIES AND OF COURSE THE ALLEGATIONS OF FRAUD THAT TOO MANY PEOPLE VOTED OR TOO FEW PEOPLE VOTED AND THE LIKE.

ALL OF THAT WILL PLAY OUT IN COURT.

SOME OF THOSE COURTS WILL BE STATE COURTS WHICH HAS PARTISAN ELECTIONS.

MOST PEOPLE THINK OF JUDGES IN AMERICA AS NONPOLITICAL AND THAT'S TRUE AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL WHEN YOU WHERE THE FEDERAL ROBE YOU AREN'T A MEMBER OF A POLITICAL PARTY , THAT'S NOT TRUE AT THE STATE LEVEL.

INDEED, MANY STATES INCLUDING PENNSYLVANIA AND GEORGIA WHICH BOTH MIGHT PLAY AN OUTSIZED ROLE ON NOVEMBER 5, BOTH OF THEM HAVE ELECTIONS, FOUR JUDGES IN WHICH THEY RUN AS A DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN SO IMAGINE, IF THE CASES ARE FILED AND YOU'VE GOT EITHER A DEMOCRATIC COURT OR PUBLIC COURT MAKING THESE DECISIONS WHICH COULD BENEFIT A POLITICAL PARTY OR THE OTHER WHICH COULD BECOME VERY SCARY VERY QUICKLY .

THE ANALOG OF THE QUESTION YOU ARE ASKING BEFORE ABOUT THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT BUT NOW IT'S AT THE STATE LEVEL AND IT'S SOMETHING I THINK THAT WE REALLY NEED TO WORRY ABOUT AS WELL.

>> JUDGES IN GEORGIA UPHELD THOSE RIGHTS DOES THIS GIVE YOU CONFIDENCE OR IS IT SOMETHING YOU ARE LOOKING FORWARD TO OPTIMISTICALLY?

>> IT WAS A GREAT DECISION BY A SINGLE JUDGE BUT MY CONCERN IS THAT THOSE DECISIONS WILL GO UP ON APPEAL AND COULD COME OUT THE OTHER WAY BUT THAT'S WHAT I THINK ABOUT WHEN WE THINK ABOUT WHAT MY PROFESSION IS ABOUT AND IN THAT CASE IT WAS A REPUBLICAN JUDGE WHO RUNS AS A REPUBLICAN AND LOOKED AT THE CHALLENGE THAT WAS AN ISSUE AND RULED A CERTAIN WAY TO PROTECT THE WAY MY LEGAL EDUCATION IS ALWAYS TRAINING ME, THAT'S WHAT I HOPE THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT WILL DO IN THE OTHER JUDGES AROUND THE COUNTRY.

WHAT I LECTURE ABOUT IS WHAT DONALD TRUMP AND HIS MINIONS ARE GOING TO DO ON NOVEMBER 5.

THEY HAVE SIGNALED THEY WILL BE ALL IN ON ATTACKING THE INTEGRITY OF THE RIGHT TO VOTE WHICH WILL PUT ENORMOUS PRESSURE ON THE INSTITUTIONS AND IF THERE IS ONE THING TO THINK OF AS VIEWERS LISTEN TO THIS IT IS THE ROLE OF THE UNITED STATES CONGRESS ON JANUARY 6 WERE TRUMP TRIED LAST TIME AND FAILED AND HE WILL TRY AGAIN.

IF HE COULD GET A MAJORITY OF THE HOUSE AND SENATE TO THROW OUT THE VOTE FROM A PARTICULAR STATE LIKE PENNSYLVANIA THIS COULD SWING THE ELECTION.

YOUR ARTICLE WHAT IF NO CANDIDATE WINS THE MAJORITY AGAINST THIS AND THAT'S WHERE THE OPPORTUNITY FOR MISCHIEF LIES WHAT MISCHIEF COULD HAPPEN?

>> THAT'S A DIFFERENT ONE, THAT'S NOT THE JANUARY 6 MISCHIEF I WAS TALKING ABOUT EARLIER, MISCHIEF UNDER THE 12th AMENDMENT SO THE 12 AMENDMENT TO THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION WHICH IS AROUND FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS BUT IT HASN'T KICKED IN TWO CENTURIES BUT WHAT IT SAYS IS IF THERE IS NO ONE WHO GETS THE MAJORITY IN THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE THEN THE DECISION FOR THE PRESIDENCY IS MADE BY THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND FOR THE VICE PRESIDENCY IS MADE BY THE SENATE SO THERE ARE SOME COCAINE ARCANE VOTING RULES I WILL WALK YOU THROUGH BUT THINK OF THAT, YOU COULD HAVE CIRCUMSTANCES IN WHICH THE PRESIDENT IS A REPUBLICAN AND THE VICE PRESIDENT IS A DEMOCRAT BECAUSE THE SENATE PICKS ONE AND HAS PICKS THE OTHER OR VICE VERSA THAT'S UNWIELDY AND PERHAPS EVEN POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS TO POLITICAL PARTIES OCCUPYING THOSE TWO WORLDS.

THE 12th AMENDMENT SAYS THAT IF THERE IS A TIE OR NO ONE GETS THE MAJORITY IT WOULD GO TO THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES BUT IT DOES UNDER A SPECIALIZED SET OF RULES WHICH DO NOT EXIST ELSEWHERE.

EACH STATE GETS ONE VOTE SO YOU COUNT UP THE NUMBER OF MEMBERS OF CONGRESS OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND LOOK AND SEE ARE THEY MORE REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT?

THAT IS HOW THAT STATE WILL ULTIMATELY VOTE.

IF THAT WERE TO TAKE PLACE TODAY I THINK THERE ARE 26 DELEGATIONS IN WHICH REPUBLICANS HAVE THE MAJORITY.

SO IF THIS WERE TO TAKE PLACE TODAY DONALD TRUMP WOULD WIN BECAUSE THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES WOULD GIVE HIM THAT VOTES AND OBVIOUSLY YOU KNOW, IT'S A NEW CONGRESS WHICH WILL DECIDE THAT IT'S NOT THE OLD CONGRESS SO SOME THINGS >> WHAT DO WE DO TO STRENGTHEN OUR INSTITUTIONS?

YOU MENTIONED CONGRESS HAD PASSED THE ELECTORAL FORMAT BUT EVEN THAT THERE SEEM TO BE SHORTCOMINGS.

>> I DON'T THINK IT'S AMBIGUOUS BUT CERTAINLY HIS LAWYERS ARE SUGGESTING THAT IT IS AMBIGUOUS AND THAT THESE OBJECTIONS FOR VOTING COULD BE MORE BROAD THAN WHAT MOST PEOPLE THINK AND WILL ARGUE THAT THE LAW IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL SO THAT THIS SHOULD BE SET ASIDE AND SHOULD BE RAW POLITICAL POWER IN CONGRESS WHICH DECIDES THESE THINGS SO THIS COULD VERY WELL PLAY OUT INTO ME THE MOST IMPORTANT THING, WE ARE ONLY A FEW WEEKS AWAY FROM THE ELECTION, TO REALLY BEGIN A CONVERSATION ABOUT HOW IMPORTANT YOUR RIGHT TO VOTE IS AS AMERICANS.

THE MOST PRECIOUS THING WE HAVE LIKE WHY PEOPLE LIKE MY PARENTS CAME TO THIS COUNTRY WE ARE NOW AND WE DON'T KNOW WHO WILL WIN OR WHAT THE ACCUSATIONS AND THE LIKE WILL BE SO WE NEED A NATIONAL CONVERSATION ABOUT HOW WHATEVER HAPPENS AND WHEN THOSE VOTES OCCUR ON NOVEMBER 5, WE HAVE TO TAKE THEM SERIOUSLY AND NOT DISCOUNT THEM FOR PARTISAN ADVANTAGE BECAUSE THERE IS SOMETHING BIGGER AT STAKE THAN WINNING OR LOSING THIS ELECTION IT'S ABOUT THE FUTURE OF DEMOCRACY AND IF WE WANT THESE SHENANIGANS TO BE PLAYED, WE SAW THEM PLAYED IN 2020 AND FORTUNATELY THEY FAILED BUT THEY MAY NOT FAIL THIS TIME AND THAT IS WHY I THINK A CONVERSATION NOW IS SO IMPORTANT.

>> THE PROFESSOR AT GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.